NEW EXPO TAG PROCESS
- Thread starter grizzly
- Start date
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-18 AT 02:44PM (MST)[p]Tristate again with his overassumptions and twisting of words. Didn?t say I hated them. Nowhere in anyone?s post have I read the word ?hate?.
So don't jump to conclusions sweetheart.
Somebody can disagree how they have handled a situation without hating them. Can?t they? Oh that's right, you don't answer simple questions.
There is no point to having rules if you're going to do what you want and then change the rules later to fit your actions
These board members are selected to better our wildlife within the regulations set forth.
I hope more people can chime in on facts, ideas for better change, without all the mud throwing.
My calendar is full of scheduled days on the mountain involving help for friends and family. Including a few of my own hunts on a ton of public ground. I've been in town recouping before taking a friend out again.
Guess I'll check back later
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
So don't jump to conclusions sweetheart.
Somebody can disagree how they have handled a situation without hating them. Can?t they? Oh that's right, you don't answer simple questions.
There is no point to having rules if you're going to do what you want and then change the rules later to fit your actions
These board members are selected to better our wildlife within the regulations set forth.
I hope more people can chime in on facts, ideas for better change, without all the mud throwing.
My calendar is full of scheduled days on the mountain involving help for friends and family. Including a few of my own hunts on a ton of public ground. I've been in town recouping before taking a friend out again.
Guess I'll check back later
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Tristate
Long Time Member
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- 8,860
Okydoky,
I'll take you at your word. You just dislike so much what you saw that you have to talk about years later and you can't put it behind you. You hope other people will read your post and use your opinion to add to whatever childish emotion they can't let go of after years.
No matter what your feelings are, Birdman gave you and everyone else a plan for you to change all the things you really really really really really really really really don't like, NOT HATE. So get off your butts and get busy and quit crying on the internet and beating a dead horse that you obviously really really really really really really really really don't like.
I'll take you at your word. You just dislike so much what you saw that you have to talk about years later and you can't put it behind you. You hope other people will read your post and use your opinion to add to whatever childish emotion they can't let go of after years.
No matter what your feelings are, Birdman gave you and everyone else a plan for you to change all the things you really really really really really really really really don't like, NOT HATE. So get off your butts and get busy and quit crying on the internet and beating a dead horse that you obviously really really really really really really really really don't like.
So hawk and a few others went to rmef to get them to try for the expo tags and hold an expo in a state that rmef left from because they could not draw people to there convention in the first place. Makes s lot of sense. No wonder they didn't take action. They really didn't want it in the first place. They learned hawk and a few guys duped them good.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
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- 3,014
Wrong. Once again birdman is posting about things he knows not his about. Do you see a trend?
RMEF made a decision to submit a proposal in response to the state?s open invitation in its administrative rule. When the asked me to help them with the process, I knew going in that the State of Utah would not let that contract go to another conservation group. RMEF is the only group that submitted a proposal pursuant to the DWR?s own rules. Once the DWR received RMEF?s proposal, they chose to ignore their own rules and prior practice to implement a formal RFP, which changed the criteria and was drafted in a way to favor the groups that had the prior contract.
RMEF played along and submitted an even more generous response to the RFP, knowing the odds were stacked against them. When the DWR rejected RMEF?s proposal in favor of a proposal that returned a fraction of the money to wildlife, RMEF made a decision to move on and focus their mission. To put it simply, RMEF is not in the business of suing states and other conservation organizations, and this is a Utah problem that Utah sportsmen will need to resolve.
As someone who was involved in this from the beginning, I was not the least bit surprised with how this all went down. I knew it would be an uphill battle for any group to get a fair and legitimate shot at that contract but I hoped RMEF?s proposal would at least draw attention to the problem we are facing in Utah, and it did: https://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
And to top it all, the DWR came back 2 years later and finally amended their rules to allow them to use the RFP process that they already used in 2016. Is that how government agencies are supposed to operate? In Utah, that is how we do it.
There you go birdman but I am sure you already got the ?real story? from serving on one of your important committees. Don?t let facts get in the way of a good story!
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
RMEF made a decision to submit a proposal in response to the state?s open invitation in its administrative rule. When the asked me to help them with the process, I knew going in that the State of Utah would not let that contract go to another conservation group. RMEF is the only group that submitted a proposal pursuant to the DWR?s own rules. Once the DWR received RMEF?s proposal, they chose to ignore their own rules and prior practice to implement a formal RFP, which changed the criteria and was drafted in a way to favor the groups that had the prior contract.
RMEF played along and submitted an even more generous response to the RFP, knowing the odds were stacked against them. When the DWR rejected RMEF?s proposal in favor of a proposal that returned a fraction of the money to wildlife, RMEF made a decision to move on and focus their mission. To put it simply, RMEF is not in the business of suing states and other conservation organizations, and this is a Utah problem that Utah sportsmen will need to resolve.
As someone who was involved in this from the beginning, I was not the least bit surprised with how this all went down. I knew it would be an uphill battle for any group to get a fair and legitimate shot at that contract but I hoped RMEF?s proposal would at least draw attention to the problem we are facing in Utah, and it did: https://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
And to top it all, the DWR came back 2 years later and finally amended their rules to allow them to use the RFP process that they already used in 2016. Is that how government agencies are supposed to operate? In Utah, that is how we do it.
There you go birdman but I am sure you already got the ?real story? from serving on one of your important committees. Don?t let facts get in the way of a good story!
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Tikka
Long Time Member
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Hawkeye, at the end of that interview Chris Miller stated that he talked with Senator Jim Dabakis and Jim called it ?a can of worms?.
It's been over two years since that news report. Do you have any update as to progress on this you can give us?
Thanks for your time
It's been over two years since that news report. Do you have any update as to progress on this you can give us?
Thanks for your time
LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-18 AT 09:50AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-18 AT 09:38?AM (MST)
The BS excuse given by the DWR as to why the RFP was went to instead of what was currently written in the rule at the time meant a few things.
1- it was an easy way for them to put the bid decision on someone else instead of taking that responsibility. (How convenient for them)
2-it meant that how the bid was conducted in the past was not following state procurement code and was handled wrong from the beginning. (Again how convenient for them)
3- Instead of changing the administrative rule to follow the guidelines of the states procurement code, since ?that was the way it was suppose to be done? , they still chose to go against the administrative rule and follow the state procurement code and then later go back and change the administrative rule.
All this equates to a $hit show
And to the public watching this all unfold, looked biased with their decision to award SFW.
Having several past SFW members currently on the DWR board, along with the DWR vise president at the time, now a SFW member, all validate the thoughts of many.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
The BS excuse given by the DWR as to why the RFP was went to instead of what was currently written in the rule at the time meant a few things.
1- it was an easy way for them to put the bid decision on someone else instead of taking that responsibility. (How convenient for them)
2-it meant that how the bid was conducted in the past was not following state procurement code and was handled wrong from the beginning. (Again how convenient for them)
3- Instead of changing the administrative rule to follow the guidelines of the states procurement code, since ?that was the way it was suppose to be done? , they still chose to go against the administrative rule and follow the state procurement code and then later go back and change the administrative rule.
All this equates to a $hit show
And to the public watching this all unfold, looked biased with their decision to award SFW.
Having several past SFW members currently on the DWR board, along with the DWR vise president at the time, now a SFW member, all validate the thoughts of many.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
Tikka-
Over the last couple of years, I have met with several legislators and even the governors office. Most of the legislators expressed real concern but none of them were willing or had the political clout to take on the powers that be. Our best hope was to trigger a legislative audit, which was requested but ultimately did not occur. In the meantime, the DWR signed a new contract with SFW, gave them an additional 5-year option (effectively locking up the contract for a decade at a time), and then circled back and amended their rules to authorize what they already did.
You have got to give it SFW, they have put all of the lobbying money to good use and have lots of friends in high places. Unfortunately, I don't see the current situation changing anyyime soon.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Over the last couple of years, I have met with several legislators and even the governors office. Most of the legislators expressed real concern but none of them were willing or had the political clout to take on the powers that be. Our best hope was to trigger a legislative audit, which was requested but ultimately did not occur. In the meantime, the DWR signed a new contract with SFW, gave them an additional 5-year option (effectively locking up the contract for a decade at a time), and then circled back and amended their rules to authorize what they already did.
You have got to give it SFW, they have put all of the lobbying money to good use and have lots of friends in high places. Unfortunately, I don't see the current situation changing anyyime soon.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
I'm just waiting for the next ignorant post by Birdbrain and another from Tri to see how he spins those last few "Fact Filled Posts" of how things actually went down! He actually thinks like Birdman that one guy getting that assistant DWR post that's open could do anything as one individual to end the corruption in Utah, LOL!
grizzly
Long Time Member
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>You have got to give it
>SFW, they have put all
>of the lobbying money to
>good use and have lots
>of friends in high places.
>-Hawkeye-
As the last Legislative Audit pointed out, using state funds to lobby state legislators is a violation of the law.
"This comingling of state and private funds could be an issue if BGF, using state funds appropriated to a state agency for a purpose delineated in state statute, is viewed as an extension of a state agency. Utah Code 63J-1-210 does not allow state funds to be used by a state agency to lobby the State Legislature."
:sigh:
But, I digress.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>SFW, they have put all
>of the lobbying money to
>good use and have lots
>of friends in high places.
>-Hawkeye-
As the last Legislative Audit pointed out, using state funds to lobby state legislators is a violation of the law.
"This comingling of state and private funds could be an issue if BGF, using state funds appropriated to a state agency for a purpose delineated in state statute, is viewed as an extension of a state agency. Utah Code 63J-1-210 does not allow state funds to be used by a state agency to lobby the State Legislature."
:sigh:
But, I digress.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
grizzly
Long Time Member
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>"IF"
>
>kind of an important word there.
>
Then I'll finish the paragraph for you so you have complete context. The next sentence reads,
"With comingling, we cannot ensure that state funds were used appropriately."
There's no ambiguity about the certainty of inappropriate comingling of funds, which is the impetus of the "if" because it makes the tracking of regulated public funds impossible. The SFW/BGF contract required tracking and reports of funds, the burden of proof is on the receiver of funds to prove proper expenditure. "This grant, and that of the subsequent year, required the vendor to maintain accounting records to be available for state review."
Here's another part with no ambiguity,
"For the fiscal year 2013 contract, BGF reported that about two-thirds of the state funding was paid to the BGF director?s private business and reported as his consulting fees."
Grizzly
>
>kind of an important word there.
>
Then I'll finish the paragraph for you so you have complete context. The next sentence reads,
"With comingling, we cannot ensure that state funds were used appropriately."
There's no ambiguity about the certainty of inappropriate comingling of funds, which is the impetus of the "if" because it makes the tracking of regulated public funds impossible. The SFW/BGF contract required tracking and reports of funds, the burden of proof is on the receiver of funds to prove proper expenditure. "This grant, and that of the subsequent year, required the vendor to maintain accounting records to be available for state review."
Here's another part with no ambiguity,
"For the fiscal year 2013 contract, BGF reported that about two-thirds of the state funding was paid to the BGF director?s private business and reported as his consulting fees."
Grizzly
>"IF" a frog had wings he
>wouldn't bump his ass when
>he hops.
>
>"IF" this quote had context it
>probably still wouldn't mean anything.
>
>
>"IF"y'all applied yourself to a problem
>you might make a difference
>in this world.
>
>
>What's wrong with consulting fees?
IF Birdman and Tristate would quit making stupid, incorrect posts meant merely to sidetrack every SFW thread, we all might get somewhere in what is being discussed.
>wouldn't bump his ass when
>he hops.
>
>"IF" this quote had context it
>probably still wouldn't mean anything.
>
>
>"IF"y'all applied yourself to a problem
>you might make a difference
>in this world.
>
>
>What's wrong with consulting fees?
IF Birdman and Tristate would quit making stupid, incorrect posts meant merely to sidetrack every SFW thread, we all might get somewhere in what is being discussed.
Top, go to Wyoming. Your best to quit trying go figure things out. Hawkeye would not tell the truth if his buddies life depended on it.
You guys n as me all kinds do of acquisitions about the law being broken. It hasn't or someone would have done something. Let's face it hawk screwed up. Maybe next time. I guess hawk likes making a living in the corrupt legal Utah system. If the law was being broke hawk could do something but he won't cause any things are legal. And yes rmef was ask to put in a bid.
By the way why did rmef decide to leave Utah in the first place. Were they scared of Utah and SFW. After turning down the chance to be part of the expo in the first place
You guys n as me all kinds do of acquisitions about the law being broken. It hasn't or someone would have done something. Let's face it hawk screwed up. Maybe next time. I guess hawk likes making a living in the corrupt legal Utah system. If the law was being broke hawk could do something but he won't cause any things are legal. And yes rmef was ask to put in a bid.
By the way why did rmef decide to leave Utah in the first place. Were they scared of Utah and SFW. After turning down the chance to be part of the expo in the first place
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-18 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]Birdman, your posts continue to confirm your complete ignorance. Since you profess to know so much, who supposedly asked RMEF to put in a bid? I cannot wait to hear this one. Let me guess, your secret source told you that? The same secret source that told you that I sought a position within SFW, and that I solicited RMEF, and that I turned down a offer to see a full accounting of Expo funds? You are either a complete liar or horribly confused individual.
The irony is that when you bombarded me with pm?s I offered repeatedly to get together for lunch and to talk through the issues. However, you don't even have the backbone to get together and talk because you are afraid that you will get tricked or ?lawyered? as you put it. I work with people that I disagree with everyday - and I treat them with respect. Just like the folks within SFW that I have met with over the years. I have never once posted regarding the substance of those discussions, as they requested.
You attack me because you have no response to the substantive issues. The truth is you have no interest in an honest discussion of the facts. You would rather deflect, mislead and troll. That is sad and pathetic, especially from somebody tasked with representing the public as a RAC member. If you ever grow up and would like to engage in a real discussion of these issues, my offer remains open. Let's get together for lunch and I will buy. I will listen to your position if you will listen to mine. So what do you say?
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
The irony is that when you bombarded me with pm?s I offered repeatedly to get together for lunch and to talk through the issues. However, you don't even have the backbone to get together and talk because you are afraid that you will get tricked or ?lawyered? as you put it. I work with people that I disagree with everyday - and I treat them with respect. Just like the folks within SFW that I have met with over the years. I have never once posted regarding the substance of those discussions, as they requested.
You attack me because you have no response to the substantive issues. The truth is you have no interest in an honest discussion of the facts. You would rather deflect, mislead and troll. That is sad and pathetic, especially from somebody tasked with representing the public as a RAC member. If you ever grow up and would like to engage in a real discussion of these issues, my offer remains open. Let's get together for lunch and I will buy. I will listen to your position if you will listen to mine. So what do you say?
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
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Well there you have it folks. That should tell you all you need to know about Birdman.
He makes baseless accusations about me and others but he does not have the spine to sit down and talk through the issues with someone that disagrees with him. Ken, stop sending me pm?s and just post your response. If you are going to question my integrity on a public forum then you should have the courtesy and and fortitude to be willing to sit down and talk face to face. My offer stands.
In your latest pm you say that your are worried that I'll ?twist things.? Good grief. I'm a fellow hunter and sportsman not the bogey-man. If you meet with me, you might realize that I'm a fairly reasonable guy. You might even realize that there is a basis for my concerns. If it helps you feel better, I'll give you the same commitment that I gave your other buddies from SFW, I won't post about our conversation. As you know, I have honored that 100% even when you have made crazy claims about me based upon second-hand information. That is a much more consideration than you have ever given me. Let me know if you change your mind.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
He makes baseless accusations about me and others but he does not have the spine to sit down and talk through the issues with someone that disagrees with him. Ken, stop sending me pm?s and just post your response. If you are going to question my integrity on a public forum then you should have the courtesy and and fortitude to be willing to sit down and talk face to face. My offer stands.
In your latest pm you say that your are worried that I'll ?twist things.? Good grief. I'm a fellow hunter and sportsman not the bogey-man. If you meet with me, you might realize that I'm a fairly reasonable guy. You might even realize that there is a basis for my concerns. If it helps you feel better, I'll give you the same commitment that I gave your other buddies from SFW, I won't post about our conversation. As you know, I have honored that 100% even when you have made crazy claims about me based upon second-hand information. That is a much more consideration than you have ever given me. Let me know if you change your mind.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Tristate
Long Time Member
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- 8,860
Why did RMEF leave?
Why did a sitting board member deny RMEF was in direct competition against sfw and less than a year later they put in a bid for the expo?
Why would an organization that claims it didn't need the funds raised by the tags to have a state event decide not to hold a state event when they didn't get the bid?
Why won't they hold an event if they believe lack of Utah experience kept them from gaining the bid?
According to the six dead horse jockies on monster muleys it would be the greatest event for sportsman in Utah????
Sounds to me like things ain't quite how the spin doctors for the hate club make it look.
Why did a sitting board member deny RMEF was in direct competition against sfw and less than a year later they put in a bid for the expo?
Why would an organization that claims it didn't need the funds raised by the tags to have a state event decide not to hold a state event when they didn't get the bid?
Why won't they hold an event if they believe lack of Utah experience kept them from gaining the bid?
According to the six dead horse jockies on monster muleys it would be the greatest event for sportsman in Utah????
Sounds to me like things ain't quite how the spin doctors for the hate club make it look.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
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That is great comparison YBO. Like immigration, we all know the current system needs reform but certain powerful groups benefit financially from a broken system.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
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- 3,014
Birdman keeps asking me why a RMEF left Utah? As I have said before, I am not a member of RMEF, and I do not speak on their behalf. I was asked to help with their Expo proposal and I did so because I found their offer to be transparent and extremely generous to the state of Utah and wildlife. Plus, I was highly impressed by the people I met at RMEF and associated with.
As far as RMEF leaving Utah, last time I checked RMEF has an active chapter here, hosted numerous banquets all over the state this spring, actively participated in the conservation permit program, and sponsored numerous conservation projects. See https://www.utahrmef.com/2018-banquets--permits.html
If you are asking why RMEF does not hold its national convention in Utah, then you should ask someone associated with the organization. As an outsider, however, I can tell you that I believe that RMEF was treated very poorly by our state and there are locations all over the west vying to host RMEF?s major events.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
As far as RMEF leaving Utah, last time I checked RMEF has an active chapter here, hosted numerous banquets all over the state this spring, actively participated in the conservation permit program, and sponsored numerous conservation projects. See https://www.utahrmef.com/2018-banquets--permits.html
If you are asking why RMEF does not hold its national convention in Utah, then you should ask someone associated with the organization. As an outsider, however, I can tell you that I believe that RMEF was treated very poorly by our state and there are locations all over the west vying to host RMEF?s major events.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
roadrunner
Long Time Member
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RMEF did not "leave" UT. They held their annual Elk Camp in SLC one year as they went to a different location every year, and still so.
Once SFW started doing the expo, what was the point...
Once SFW started doing the expo, what was the point...
Good answer hawk. Not go back and see what rmef said. Their members nation wide fid not like th edr dry state of Utah. In their own words their members ask for a state where they can party. Utah was not that state. When I was a member of rmef they wanted to be able to draw their members to the convention. Then they moved to Reno but that was not good enough so they moved to Vegas. Their members have been happy there and tying it to the rodeo finals worked perfect. They were never h as pot in Utah so why would they want to come back. They didn't but they wanted to hurt SFW. Allan hated SFW. He made the statement several times he wanted them gone. They really didnt want yo move back to Utah. If SFW haters had not put so much pressure on Allan they would not have applied in the first place
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
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There you go again speaking for David Allen. Have you ever met or spoken with the guy? I have. Have you ever asked him why RMEF applied for the Expo tag contract? I did. Would you even have the backbone to meet with him if you had the opportunity? I did.
So once again, who are these supposed SFW haters that twisted RMEF?s arm to responding to the state?s open invitation to all conservation groups to apply for the next expo contract? Let's hear it.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
So once again, who are these supposed SFW haters that twisted RMEF?s arm to responding to the state?s open invitation to all conservation groups to apply for the next expo contract? Let's hear it.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Tristate
Long Time Member
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- 8,860
I think RMEF should have an official spokesman on mm. Right now it looks like they aren't being transparent and hiding behind a bunch of dead horse jockies.
All we get is RMEF this, RMEF that, followed by "why don't you talk to RMEF".
I hope a new spokesperson could be more honest than the last one. You know, "transparent".
All we get is RMEF this, RMEF that, followed by "why don't you talk to RMEF".
I hope a new spokesperson could be more honest than the last one. You know, "transparent".
Yes I have corrasponded with David Allan. Even have a letter from him before he was replaced. You know hawk your not the only one who has the opportunity to meet people in key positions. It might surprise you who I get to talk to. I'm not the lowlife you want to think I am. However I really expect most on mm would like to think otherwise
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,131
Tri RMEF does not hold there annually convention tied to the NFR week in Vegas they do have a elk camp associated to Cowboy Christmas but I do believe there convention Elk Camp is held in a different city each year. Last year Phoenix the year before Nashville.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
Ken-
This keeps getting better. So you ?corrasponded? with David Allen? Did he attempt to twist things and trick you? And you have a letter from him? Does that letter say that a bunch of SFW haters pressured RMEF into submitting a proposal for the Expo tag contract like you stated before? Post it up. Let's see what David Allen had to say.
By the way, I never called you a lowlife. I called you a troll and someone who makes baseless accusations but then refuses to get together and discuss the issues. I don't know or care what folks on mm think about you. They only know you from your posts. So if they have a negative impression if you then you have nobody to blame but yourself.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
This keeps getting better. So you ?corrasponded? with David Allen? Did he attempt to twist things and trick you? And you have a letter from him? Does that letter say that a bunch of SFW haters pressured RMEF into submitting a proposal for the Expo tag contract like you stated before? Post it up. Let's see what David Allen had to say.
By the way, I never called you a lowlife. I called you a troll and someone who makes baseless accusations but then refuses to get together and discuss the issues. I don't know or care what folks on mm think about you. They only know you from your posts. So if they have a negative impression if you then you have nobody to blame but yourself.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
So that's better? You called him a troll. You think that's better? And then you try and tell him he has no one to blame but himself????????
After you and the rest of your dead horse jockies have publicly crapped on anyone who has had enough of your mindless hate?????
Man y'all are some f'd up people. If you want to run people down at least be a man and take accountability for your behavior.
After you and the rest of your dead horse jockies have publicly crapped on anyone who has had enough of your mindless hate?????
Man y'all are some f'd up people. If you want to run people down at least be a man and take accountability for your behavior.
Ken, a want-to-be spokesman and defendant for SFW who probably doesn't help their cause with his posts, sits on the RAC. Sure gives me a lot of faith. Absolutely blows my mind. LOL
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-18 AT 09:41PM (MST)[p]Good answer hawk. Not go
>back and see what rmef
>said. Their members nation
>wide fid not like th
>edr dry state of Utah.
> In their own words
>their members ask for a
>state where they can party.
> Utah was not that
>state. When I was a
>member of rmef they wanted
>to be able to draw
>their members to the convention.
> Then they moved
>to Reno but that was
>not good enough so they
>moved to Vegas.
>Their members have been happy
>there and tying it to
>the rodeo finals worked perfect.
> They were never h
>as pot in Utah so
>why would they want to
>come back. They didn't
>but they wanted to
>hurt SFW. Allan hated SFW.
>He made the statement several
>times he wanted them gone.
> They really didnt want
>yo move back to Utah.
> If SFW haters had
>not put so much pressure
>on Allan they would not
>have applied in the first
>place
Talk about you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about Birdbrain! You couldn't even get things straight about SFW not submitting a bid for the EXPO and RMEF being the only one that made a bid meeting the initial deadline. I didn't pull that out of the hat and I'm surprised a SFW higher up hasn't told you to shut the heck up. Now you're trying to tell us all about the RMEF and not a thing you've stated is fact. The RMEF DOES NOT hold the National Convention every year in Vegas like you stated and your mention of alcohol for leaving is mere conjecture on your part and likely is false like all the rest of what you keep posting. FYI the event in Vegas in late December is an event tied in with the rodeo and has absolutely nothing to do with their National Convention that moves to big cities all across the country just like our other member mentioned about your inaccurate statements! I'm glad I'm heading for Wyoming for two months this week because if I had to read many more of your absolutely ignorant posts I'm afraid I'd laugh myself to death!
>back and see what rmef
>said. Their members nation
>wide fid not like th
>edr dry state of Utah.
> In their own words
>their members ask for a
>state where they can party.
> Utah was not that
>state. When I was a
>member of rmef they wanted
>to be able to draw
>their members to the convention.
> Then they moved
>to Reno but that was
>not good enough so they
>moved to Vegas.
>Their members have been happy
>there and tying it to
>the rodeo finals worked perfect.
> They were never h
>as pot in Utah so
>why would they want to
>come back. They didn't
>but they wanted to
>hurt SFW. Allan hated SFW.
>He made the statement several
>times he wanted them gone.
> They really didnt want
>yo move back to Utah.
> If SFW haters had
>not put so much pressure
>on Allan they would not
>have applied in the first
>place
Talk about you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about Birdbrain! You couldn't even get things straight about SFW not submitting a bid for the EXPO and RMEF being the only one that made a bid meeting the initial deadline. I didn't pull that out of the hat and I'm surprised a SFW higher up hasn't told you to shut the heck up. Now you're trying to tell us all about the RMEF and not a thing you've stated is fact. The RMEF DOES NOT hold the National Convention every year in Vegas like you stated and your mention of alcohol for leaving is mere conjecture on your part and likely is false like all the rest of what you keep posting. FYI the event in Vegas in late December is an event tied in with the rodeo and has absolutely nothing to do with their National Convention that moves to big cities all across the country just like our other member mentioned about your inaccurate statements! I'm glad I'm heading for Wyoming for two months this week because if I had to read many more of your absolutely ignorant posts I'm afraid I'd laugh myself to death!
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
Getting lectured by Topgun on what is fact or conjecture is like a virgin giving marital advice.
Do y'all find it as amusing as me that he mentions facts in every single post and yet he literally can not tell the difference between a fact or opinion at all.
Do y'all find it as amusing as me that he mentions facts in every single post and yet he literally can not tell the difference between a fact or opinion at all.
Interesting top. Just checked. Their NATIONAL CONVENTION ELK CSMP us held in conjunction with the nrf in Vegas every year. That's from the rmef and you can find it on the web. More proof you dont know squat about half you talk about. Now my worry us will you get lost in Wyoming. You starting to lose it.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,597
>Interesting top. Just checked.
>Their NATIONAL CONVENTION ELK CSMP
>us held in conjunction with
>the nrf in Vegas every
>year.
Wasn't 2017 in Nashville and 2018 in Arizona?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>Their NATIONAL CONVENTION ELK CSMP
>us held in conjunction with
>the nrf in Vegas every
>year.
Wasn't 2017 in Nashville and 2018 in Arizona?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
Yep, to Phoenix anyway. Not sure about Nashville but sounds right.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-18 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]>Interesting top. Just checked.
>Their NATIONAL CONVENTION ELK CSMP
>us held in conjunction with
>the nrf in Vegas every
>year. That's from the
>rmef and you can find
>it on the web.
>More proof you dont know
>squat about half you talk
>about. Now my worry
>us will you get lost
>in Wyoming. You
>starting to lose it.
That IS NOT their National Convention that's held in conjunction with the rodeo in Vegas during Christmas time each year now you friggin idiot! It's just one of a number of other events they hold every year. Nowhere in the present RMEF website is there any mention of their next National Convention! You absolutely have your head up your azz and either need to quit posting or get your facts straight before you do because you have definitely overtaken your buddy Tri as moron of the MM site! I've now had another good laugh reading his response about me not knowing opinion from fact when he's so stupid he still posts %30 and %100 like the true moron he also is.
>Their NATIONAL CONVENTION ELK CSMP
>us held in conjunction with
>the nrf in Vegas every
>year. That's from the
>rmef and you can find
>it on the web.
>More proof you dont know
>squat about half you talk
>about. Now my worry
>us will you get lost
>in Wyoming. You
>starting to lose it.
That IS NOT their National Convention that's held in conjunction with the rodeo in Vegas during Christmas time each year now you friggin idiot! It's just one of a number of other events they hold every year. Nowhere in the present RMEF website is there any mention of their next National Convention! You absolutely have your head up your azz and either need to quit posting or get your facts straight before you do because you have definitely overtaken your buddy Tri as moron of the MM site! I've now had another good laugh reading his response about me not knowing opinion from fact when he's so stupid he still posts %30 and %100 like the true moron he also is.
Wilk top do your homework. They call it elk camp and call it their national convention. That comes from the rmef. Y ok u are totally wrong topgun. It us the oh r national convention. They have events in every state but Vegas is NATIONAL CONVENTION. YOU are totally wrong topgun. Go bnb to thy gr it r web sight.
RMEF Elk Camp National Convention in Vegas Dec.
Other events there include the?National Finals Rodeo? and the Popular?Cowboy Christmas?
Four days of hunting seminars and a stage full of country music talent await attendees of the?Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?s Elk Camp national convention at The Mirage and Las Vegas Convention Center
Other events there include the?National Finals Rodeo? and the Popular?Cowboy Christmas?
Four days of hunting seminars and a stage full of country music talent await attendees of the?Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?s Elk Camp national convention at The Mirage and Las Vegas Convention Center
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-18 AT 10:28PM (MST)[p]You are WRONG!!! THis year the National Convention was already held in Phoenix. That's in Arizona moron! Nowhere, including the Title of Elk Camp on the site with the dates of 1/3-12/6, does it say it's their National Convention. The following two paragraphs are C/Pd right from the RMEF website regarding the 2017 Nashville site and mentions future sites AREN'T in Vegas like the yearly December event held in conjunction with the rodeo there is:
National Convention
By Ralph Cinfio, Vice President Fundraising Services
Memories that will never be forgotten and friendships that will last a lifetime. This is what The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (RMEF) National Convention is all about, and we are excited that, for the first time in 10 years, Convention will be hosted east of the Rockies in our wonderful host city of Nashville, Tennessee! We look forward to National Convention in Nashville, where we come together to see old friends, make new ones and support the mission of the RMEF.
Typically, convention has moved around to different cities in the western U.S. Most recently, it was held in Las Vegas, but not anymore. You may ask, ?Why Nashville?? We moved convention for a myriad of reasons, including the growing number of both elk and RMEF members in the Eastern U.S. We want to reward our members with a wonderful destination city and experiences that no one can offer other than the RMEF. We have changed our agenda to allow attendees more time to explore Nashville?s unique culture first-hand while celebrating 33 years of great conservation success.
National Convention
By Ralph Cinfio, Vice President Fundraising Services
Memories that will never be forgotten and friendships that will last a lifetime. This is what The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (RMEF) National Convention is all about, and we are excited that, for the first time in 10 years, Convention will be hosted east of the Rockies in our wonderful host city of Nashville, Tennessee! We look forward to National Convention in Nashville, where we come together to see old friends, make new ones and support the mission of the RMEF.
Typically, convention has moved around to different cities in the western U.S. Most recently, it was held in Las Vegas, but not anymore. You may ask, ?Why Nashville?? We moved convention for a myriad of reasons, including the growing number of both elk and RMEF members in the Eastern U.S. We want to reward our members with a wonderful destination city and experiences that no one can offer other than the RMEF. We have changed our agenda to allow attendees more time to explore Nashville?s unique culture first-hand while celebrating 33 years of great conservation success.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 08:15AM (MST)[p]>Please for the love of God
>and anything else holy in
>this life, Bridman, PLEASE do
>not go to the bighorns.
> I will be there
>and definitely dont want that
>experienced ruined.
Can you believe this guy Landon?! First he gets schooled on not knowing that his own organization didn't put in a bid for the EXPO before the first deadline meaning RMEF was the only organization that did. He will never admit when he's wrong and now he has the balls to try to tell us all about the RMEF while asking a question of why they left Utah. He seems like a very nice guy that doesn't have enough brains to leave a discussion while he's so far behind that he'll never dig his way out! Now even after I C/Pd right off the RMEF website that they are moving the National Convention all over the country as of 2017 and that last year it was in Nashville and this year it was in Phoenix he comes back with more incorrect BS that they have more than one National Convention a year, LOL! I know the higher ups at SFW read these threads and I'm really surprised by now that they haven't hauled his dumb butt into their Office and told him to stop posting all his stupid stuff and making himself look like a jackass while working for them and being on the RAC.
>and anything else holy in
>this life, Bridman, PLEASE do
>not go to the bighorns.
> I will be there
>and definitely dont want that
>experienced ruined.
Can you believe this guy Landon?! First he gets schooled on not knowing that his own organization didn't put in a bid for the EXPO before the first deadline meaning RMEF was the only organization that did. He will never admit when he's wrong and now he has the balls to try to tell us all about the RMEF while asking a question of why they left Utah. He seems like a very nice guy that doesn't have enough brains to leave a discussion while he's so far behind that he'll never dig his way out! Now even after I C/Pd right off the RMEF website that they are moving the National Convention all over the country as of 2017 and that last year it was in Nashville and this year it was in Phoenix he comes back with more incorrect BS that they have more than one National Convention a year, LOL! I know the higher ups at SFW read these threads and I'm really surprised by now that they haven't hauled his dumb butt into their Office and told him to stop posting all his stupid stuff and making himself look like a jackass while working for them and being on the RAC.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
Birdman, you are wrong yet again. We need to employ a full time fact checker just to dispel the myths that you post on a daily basis. Birdman's latest whopper: RMEF holds its national Convention in Las Vegas every year.
Reality
RMEF hold two major events each year. The Hunter & Outdoor Christmas Expo, which is held in Las Vegas during the National Final Rodeo, and the RMEF National Convention, which is also known as Elk Camp.
In 2017, the RMEF National Convention - Elk Camp- was held in Nashville, TN. See http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...tionalConventiontoOfferaTasteofNashville.aspx
In 2018, the RMEF National Convention - Elk Camp- was held in Phoenix, AZ. See http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...ElkCampHeadstoArizonaRegistrationNowOpen.aspx
In addition, RMEF made in perfectly clear in the proposal that it submitted to the State of Utah in 2015 that if it was awarded the Expo Tag Contract then it would bring the RMEF National Convention (Elk Camp) to SLC, UT starting in 2017 and each year thereafter. RMEF would have made the Expo tags available as part of its National Convention. Had it been awarded the Expo tag contract, RMEF would have still continued to host its Hunter & Outdoor Christmas Expo in las vegas each December. See http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFConfirmsUtahExpoBid.aspx
Now that we have cleared up that false statement, please tell us which "SFW hater" allegedly pressured RMEF into submitting a proposal for the Expo Tag Contract. Please also post up a copy of the letter you personally received from David Allen, assuming it even has anything to do with these issues. If you are going to make ridiculous statements then you should be willing to back them up with facts.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Reality
RMEF hold two major events each year. The Hunter & Outdoor Christmas Expo, which is held in Las Vegas during the National Final Rodeo, and the RMEF National Convention, which is also known as Elk Camp.
In 2017, the RMEF National Convention - Elk Camp- was held in Nashville, TN. See http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...tionalConventiontoOfferaTasteofNashville.aspx
In 2018, the RMEF National Convention - Elk Camp- was held in Phoenix, AZ. See http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...ElkCampHeadstoArizonaRegistrationNowOpen.aspx
In addition, RMEF made in perfectly clear in the proposal that it submitted to the State of Utah in 2015 that if it was awarded the Expo Tag Contract then it would bring the RMEF National Convention (Elk Camp) to SLC, UT starting in 2017 and each year thereafter. RMEF would have made the Expo tags available as part of its National Convention. Had it been awarded the Expo tag contract, RMEF would have still continued to host its Hunter & Outdoor Christmas Expo in las vegas each December. See http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFConfirmsUtahExpoBid.aspx
Now that we have cleared up that false statement, please tell us which "SFW hater" allegedly pressured RMEF into submitting a proposal for the Expo Tag Contract. Please also post up a copy of the letter you personally received from David Allen, assuming it even has anything to do with these issues. If you are going to make ridiculous statements then you should be willing to back them up with facts.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 02:45PM (MST)[p]Why should Birdman listen to you Hawkeye, since he has come right out on this thread and called you a liar in one of his posts?!!! The guy is one big misinformed mess that can't back himself up about anything he says and just doesn't know when to quit. He's now taking a trick out of Tri's book and instead of backing himself up with facts just tries to sidetrack things by asking us questions. The thing is that we can usually answer anything he asks about with facts. He, along with his buddy Tri, will probably be back with more dumb responses if Tri can get some time away from gluing eyeballs in his manikins!
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 10:55AM (MST)[p]>So why would a group claim
>they don't need the money
>generated from the expo tags
>then say they aren't holding
>a major function in Utah
>when they don't get the
>expo tags??????????
>
>Any of you dead horse jockies
>going to answer this?
Easy Answer Tri---They don't need the money from those tags to stay afloat unlike SFW that has to feed off the public trough to exist. They probably get more money from donations and grants in any given year than SFW makes from all those tags. I also don't know where they said they wouldn't hold a major function in Utah if and when the time is right. If you do, please produce your evidence and not just with your posts saying they did. With the pizz poor climate in Utah that SFW has created, I doubt seriously that they will have anything other than their normal banquets throughout the state just like in all the other states---JMO Bro!. Why would they after being treated so poorly a couple years ago and getting screwed over royally with the hand writing on the wall that SFW owns Utah when there are so many other venues in the US that are begging them for their business?!
>they don't need the money
>generated from the expo tags
>then say they aren't holding
>a major function in Utah
>when they don't get the
>expo tags??????????
>
>Any of you dead horse jockies
>going to answer this?
Easy Answer Tri---They don't need the money from those tags to stay afloat unlike SFW that has to feed off the public trough to exist. They probably get more money from donations and grants in any given year than SFW makes from all those tags. I also don't know where they said they wouldn't hold a major function in Utah if and when the time is right. If you do, please produce your evidence and not just with your posts saying they did. With the pizz poor climate in Utah that SFW has created, I doubt seriously that they will have anything other than their normal banquets throughout the state just like in all the other states---JMO Bro!. Why would they after being treated so poorly a couple years ago and getting screwed over royally with the hand writing on the wall that SFW owns Utah when there are so many other venues in the US that are begging them for their business?!
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
I'm just trying to get my head around a group that says they want to have a national event in Utah. They say they don't need the money from the tags. But then they decide they aren't going to have an event there after they don't get the money from the tags???????????
How is that logic? If they didn't need tag money WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR HAVING A MAJOR EVENT IN UTAH? They must have had some other reason for wanting to have the event in Utah. Can one of you dead horse beaters come up with the reason?
Yall all talk about RMEF doesn't need tag money they are going to give it all back to the DWR. Okay them what is the reason to put in for the bid in the first place? What did the package offer them that they feel to scared to try and have an event here without winning the bid? Yall are all talking how they are this all powerful org that can draw thousands from around the nation no matter where they are or whether they get a tag distribution agreement. But frankly they turned tail and ran.
Yall can rant and rave about stupid this, and troll that, but there ain't a one of you dead horse jockies that can answer that?
How is that logic? If they didn't need tag money WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR HAVING A MAJOR EVENT IN UTAH? They must have had some other reason for wanting to have the event in Utah. Can one of you dead horse beaters come up with the reason?
Yall all talk about RMEF doesn't need tag money they are going to give it all back to the DWR. Okay them what is the reason to put in for the bid in the first place? What did the package offer them that they feel to scared to try and have an event here without winning the bid? Yall are all talking how they are this all powerful org that can draw thousands from around the nation no matter where they are or whether they get a tag distribution agreement. But frankly they turned tail and ran.
Yall can rant and rave about stupid this, and troll that, but there ain't a one of you dead horse jockies that can answer that?
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 02:39PM (MST)[p]>I'm just trying to get my
>head around a group that
>says they want to have
>a national event in Utah.
> They say they don't
>need the money from the
>tags. But then they
>decide they aren't going to
>have an event there after
>they don't get the money
>from the tags???????????
>
>
>How is that logic? If
>they didn't need tag money
>WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR
>HAVING A MAJOR EVENT IN
>UTAH? They must have
>had some other reason for
>wanting to have the event
>in Utah. Can one
>of you dead horse beaters
>come up with the reason?
>
>
>Yall all talk about RMEF doesn't
>need tag money they are
>going to give it all
>back to the DWR.
>Okay them what is the
>reason to put in for
>the bid in the first
>place? What did the
>package offer them that they
>feel to scared to try
>and have an event here
>without winning the bid?
>Yall are all talking how
>they are this all powerful
>org that can draw thousands
>from around the nation no
>matter where they are or
>whether they get a tag
>distribution agreement. But frankly
>they turned tail and ran.
>
>
>Yall can rant and rave about
>stupid this, and troll that,
>but there ain't a one
>of you dead horse jockies
>that can answer that?
I'll answer it, but I can't believe you're stupid enough that you can't figure it out yourself. On second thought, yes I can, so here is your answer. Read it slowly several times to let it sink into yalls head and don't try to put a spin on anything like you always do!
The Utah situation we keep talking about on MM that SFW created when they bamboozled their way into starting the Expo and then didn't give the money back that they promised along with "full transparency" of where it all was going is known throughout the country by more than just us few people posting on this website. The various organizations throughout the country were probably all sick and tired of knowing SFW wasn't doing what they stated would happen when the DWR let them have those tags for an EXPO. When the Expo contract came up for renewal the RMEF decided to step in and offer a great bid to put a stop to the crap that SFW was getting away with, which they did and was the only bid offered within the time line set with the state. Then because RMEF made the only bid the DWR did as Hawkeye and others mentioned and started the whole thing over illegally and made it so no other organization could come close to meeting their criteria other than SFW. We all know the sorry BS they came out with to knock enough points off the RMEF score in order to give the bid to SFW, including that ludicrous bull that RNMEF didn't have good credit card security in place, LOL!
With that shameful, illegal way they cancelled the initial bid and started over with criteria that was impossible for any organization other than SFW to meet, RMEF still bid on it again and put up with all that BS so SFW got the contract I'll now ask you a question. Why would they or you if you were pizzed on like that even think about coming to Utah with any kind of major event?! The RMEF decided they would not waste member's money fighting a case against the DWR and/or SFW because it would have cost a fortune instead of being used to accomplish their mission throughout the entire country. If you want to see what that is, their mission statement is posted on their website and it doesn't include filing expensive court cases against other organizations or government agencies! IMHO I'm sure you think it's just a case of sour grapes, but it goes far beyond that. Those of us that dislike the way SFW does business by only surviving off the public trust tags will keep right on letting everyone know the situation and the more of these threads that are on the net the more people will know the truth so that one day maybe, just maybe the state will wake up and right itself of the situation that Don Peyy created and it wasn't to help ordinary guys by any stretch of the imagination! Now you can come back and keep this thread alive Tri and maybe it will hit 500 before I leave for Wyoming Wednesday night.
Oh, and this is for my other buddy Tikka. I have all my chit together year around so it takes only 2 or 3 hours each fall and I'm ready to hit the road. The only thing I have left to do is reload a bunch of .243 58 grain Vmaxs to wack a few pdogs when we have time during the day now and then.
>head around a group that
>says they want to have
>a national event in Utah.
> They say they don't
>need the money from the
>tags. But then they
>decide they aren't going to
>have an event there after
>they don't get the money
>from the tags???????????
>
>
>How is that logic? If
>they didn't need tag money
>WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR
>HAVING A MAJOR EVENT IN
>UTAH? They must have
>had some other reason for
>wanting to have the event
>in Utah. Can one
>of you dead horse beaters
>come up with the reason?
>
>
>Yall all talk about RMEF doesn't
>need tag money they are
>going to give it all
>back to the DWR.
>Okay them what is the
>reason to put in for
>the bid in the first
>place? What did the
>package offer them that they
>feel to scared to try
>and have an event here
>without winning the bid?
>Yall are all talking how
>they are this all powerful
>org that can draw thousands
>from around the nation no
>matter where they are or
>whether they get a tag
>distribution agreement. But frankly
>they turned tail and ran.
>
>
>Yall can rant and rave about
>stupid this, and troll that,
>but there ain't a one
>of you dead horse jockies
>that can answer that?
I'll answer it, but I can't believe you're stupid enough that you can't figure it out yourself. On second thought, yes I can, so here is your answer. Read it slowly several times to let it sink into yalls head and don't try to put a spin on anything like you always do!
The Utah situation we keep talking about on MM that SFW created when they bamboozled their way into starting the Expo and then didn't give the money back that they promised along with "full transparency" of where it all was going is known throughout the country by more than just us few people posting on this website. The various organizations throughout the country were probably all sick and tired of knowing SFW wasn't doing what they stated would happen when the DWR let them have those tags for an EXPO. When the Expo contract came up for renewal the RMEF decided to step in and offer a great bid to put a stop to the crap that SFW was getting away with, which they did and was the only bid offered within the time line set with the state. Then because RMEF made the only bid the DWR did as Hawkeye and others mentioned and started the whole thing over illegally and made it so no other organization could come close to meeting their criteria other than SFW. We all know the sorry BS they came out with to knock enough points off the RMEF score in order to give the bid to SFW, including that ludicrous bull that RNMEF didn't have good credit card security in place, LOL!
With that shameful, illegal way they cancelled the initial bid and started over with criteria that was impossible for any organization other than SFW to meet, RMEF still bid on it again and put up with all that BS so SFW got the contract I'll now ask you a question. Why would they or you if you were pizzed on like that even think about coming to Utah with any kind of major event?! The RMEF decided they would not waste member's money fighting a case against the DWR and/or SFW because it would have cost a fortune instead of being used to accomplish their mission throughout the entire country. If you want to see what that is, their mission statement is posted on their website and it doesn't include filing expensive court cases against other organizations or government agencies! IMHO I'm sure you think it's just a case of sour grapes, but it goes far beyond that. Those of us that dislike the way SFW does business by only surviving off the public trust tags will keep right on letting everyone know the situation and the more of these threads that are on the net the more people will know the truth so that one day maybe, just maybe the state will wake up and right itself of the situation that Don Peyy created and it wasn't to help ordinary guys by any stretch of the imagination! Now you can come back and keep this thread alive Tri and maybe it will hit 500 before I leave for Wyoming Wednesday night.
Oh, and this is for my other buddy Tikka. I have all my chit together year around so it takes only 2 or 3 hours each fall and I'm ready to hit the road. The only thing I have left to do is reload a bunch of .243 58 grain Vmaxs to wack a few pdogs when we have time during the day now and then.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
Can't compete with a good 'ol boy system...
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
Absolutely nothing in that post answered anything in my questions. You just spewed the same twisted story and opinions you have been and you are now praying no one will notice none of this crap makes any sense.
You talk about they didn't have the event because they felt abused by Utah????????? Yo dead horse jockies have been telling us that RMEF has more supporters in Utah than SFW. You have been telling us the citizenry and sportsmen are against SFW. If any of this is true then RMEF wouldn't care what the government did. They would come in and clean house and beet SFW with good ol' competition. What would the state government pass a law barring RMEF members leave the state???????????? Come on you cry babies screamed for years RMEF is soooooo much better than SFW. RMEF is the one that really could do a bigger better show. But the truth is they didn't. They ran off like whipped dogs when they didn't get the bid. And logically it doesn't make sense that a company turns tail and runs when it doesn't get what it proclaimed to everyone it never needed.
Either they lied about their intentions, you are lying about their capabilities, or they aren't qualified for the job. Maybe all of the above.
You talk about they didn't have the event because they felt abused by Utah????????? Yo dead horse jockies have been telling us that RMEF has more supporters in Utah than SFW. You have been telling us the citizenry and sportsmen are against SFW. If any of this is true then RMEF wouldn't care what the government did. They would come in and clean house and beet SFW with good ol' competition. What would the state government pass a law barring RMEF members leave the state???????????? Come on you cry babies screamed for years RMEF is soooooo much better than SFW. RMEF is the one that really could do a bigger better show. But the truth is they didn't. They ran off like whipped dogs when they didn't get the bid. And logically it doesn't make sense that a company turns tail and runs when it doesn't get what it proclaimed to everyone it never needed.
Either they lied about their intentions, you are lying about their capabilities, or they aren't qualified for the job. Maybe all of the above.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
They aren't selling tickets to the good ol' boys they are selling tickets to sportsmen. Are you stating now they couldn't sell as many tickets as your big mouth has been saying they could? Are you saying that there are actually sportsmen that support SFW?
You can't have it both ways without lying. Either you were wrong before and saying that everyone is against SFW and backs RMEF or you are wrong now in saying RMEF ran away because they didn't get a bid YOU claimed they didn't even need.
You can't have it both ways without lying. Either you were wrong before and saying that everyone is against SFW and backs RMEF or you are wrong now in saying RMEF ran away because they didn't get a bid YOU claimed they didn't even need.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
Who said anything about selling tickets to good 'ol boys?
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 02:54PM (MST)[p]Tri-
If you cannot figure out why RMEF might take its National Convention elsewhere after what happened in 2015-16 then you are beyond help.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
If you cannot figure out why RMEF might take its National Convention elsewhere after what happened in 2015-16 then you are beyond help.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 02:56PM (MST)[p]>Tri-
>
>If you cannot figure out what
>RMEF would take its National
>Convention elsewhere after what happened
>in 2015-16 then you are
>beyond help.
>
>-Hawkeye-
>
>My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
>
>"It is fair to ask how
>much comes in with the
>five dollar application fees and
>how much went onto the
>ground.? Don Peay of
>SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board
>Meeting.
>
>"There will be a full accounting
>of how the applications fees
>are spent.? Don Peay
>of SFW - 9/26/2006 -
>Monstermuleys.com
We all know he's way beyond help and that last spin job on everything that was written was exactly what I asked that he not do, but that was wishful thinking because that's all he knows how to do! If he was ever on a debate team, he'd get his fat Texas Aggie butt beat to a pulp about like he's getting on here and just isn't man enough and probably not smart enough to begin with to admit it. Come on 500!!!
>
>If you cannot figure out what
>RMEF would take its National
>Convention elsewhere after what happened
>in 2015-16 then you are
>beyond help.
>
>-Hawkeye-
>
>My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
>
>"It is fair to ask how
>much comes in with the
>five dollar application fees and
>how much went onto the
>ground.? Don Peay of
>SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board
>Meeting.
>
>"There will be a full accounting
>of how the applications fees
>are spent.? Don Peay
>of SFW - 9/26/2006 -
>Monstermuleys.com
We all know he's way beyond help and that last spin job on everything that was written was exactly what I asked that he not do, but that was wishful thinking because that's all he knows how to do! If he was ever on a debate team, he'd get his fat Texas Aggie butt beat to a pulp about like he's getting on here and just isn't man enough and probably not smart enough to begin with to admit it. Come on 500!!!
>10-4 Top!!!
>
> One more thing you might
>have better luck with .243
>58gr V-Max vs. the .234
>58gr V-Max...
Thanks for catching that typo, as my spell check couldn't catch a booboo like that. I don't think my little .243 Sako Forester would have shot those 234s in it very well, LOL!
>
> One more thing you might
>have better luck with .243
>58gr V-Max vs. the .234
>58gr V-Max...
Thanks for catching that typo, as my spell check couldn't catch a booboo like that. I don't think my little .243 Sako Forester would have shot those 234s in it very well, LOL!
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
The fact is you bunch of dead horse jockies have realized the minute you answer that question three very big stories (lies) have to change. That's why you are dodging.
First, there is way more to an expo bid than yall have tried to sucker people into believing. If there wasn't, some seemingly worthless tags to RMEF wouldn't have stopped them.
Second, those tags have waaaaaaay more value to the public if they are distributed at the expo than put back in the general draw.
Third, you don't have the support of the sportsmen in the state you claim you have. Yall are just a bunch of loud mouths on an internet forum and you ain't got much support from off the street.
Keep screaming boys. I'm holding your nose to the floor on this one.
First, there is way more to an expo bid than yall have tried to sucker people into believing. If there wasn't, some seemingly worthless tags to RMEF wouldn't have stopped them.
Second, those tags have waaaaaaay more value to the public if they are distributed at the expo than put back in the general draw.
Third, you don't have the support of the sportsmen in the state you claim you have. Yall are just a bunch of loud mouths on an internet forum and you ain't got much support from off the street.
Keep screaming boys. I'm holding your nose to the floor on this one.
>The fact is you bunch of
>dead horse jockies have realized
>the minute you answer that
>question three very big stories
>(lies) have to change.
>That's why you are dodging.
>
>
>First, there is way more to
>an expo bid than yall
>have tried to sucker people
>into believing. If there
>wasn't, some seemingly worthless tags
>to RMEF wouldn't have stopped
>them.
>
*** You are so full of Bull and everyone knows it but the poster and you probably know it by now too, LOL!! The RMEF National Convention held ANYWHERE in the US even without those 200 Utah tags attracts so many more people and makes so much more money than the SFW EXPO that it's crazy to even mention the two in the same sentence although I had to in this instance. Look it up as the numbers for the Convention are easily obtainable and the SFW always spouts how many thousand it draws that in no way comes close!
>Second, those tags have waaaaaaay more
>value to the public if
>they are distributed at the
>expo than put back in
>the general draw.
***Easy for to you to say that! Now prove it and in your convoluted mind you'll probably spin it a few ways to try and prove that you think it does. It might if the SFW did with all the money what RMEF had in it's bid, but it is way lacking from the money the RMEF would have paid back to the state even if it only drew the minimal crowds that the SFW does and it would have exceeded that many thousand of persons IF you look up the stats for each of the conventions.
>
>Third, you don't have the support
>of the sportsmen in the
>state you claim you have.
> Yall are just a
>bunch of loud mouths on
>an internet forum and you
>ain't got much support from
>off the street.
***How in the haydes do you know what support who has and doesn't have? Answer is that you don't, but it sounds like one heck of a good argument. It's too bad that the SFW has infiltrated every step of politics up to, and including, the Governor's office in Utah. With that being the case, it's just like one member stated that it's just about impossible to beat "the good old boys" network. It would take millions of dollars out of the pockets of the ordinary citizens to even come close to unseating the SFW, and as Hawkeye stated earlier in this thread, they will unfortunately probably stay entrenched in Utah for years to come because of that. Too bad for Utah and the citizens of the state, but at least the stink of SFW will stay right where it is because there are enough people in all the other states to keep them right where they are now and not let the stench spread.
>
>Keep screaming boys. I'm holding
>your nose to the floor
>on this one.
>dead horse jockies have realized
>the minute you answer that
>question three very big stories
>(lies) have to change.
>That's why you are dodging.
>
>
>First, there is way more to
>an expo bid than yall
>have tried to sucker people
>into believing. If there
>wasn't, some seemingly worthless tags
>to RMEF wouldn't have stopped
>them.
>
*** You are so full of Bull and everyone knows it but the poster and you probably know it by now too, LOL!! The RMEF National Convention held ANYWHERE in the US even without those 200 Utah tags attracts so many more people and makes so much more money than the SFW EXPO that it's crazy to even mention the two in the same sentence although I had to in this instance. Look it up as the numbers for the Convention are easily obtainable and the SFW always spouts how many thousand it draws that in no way comes close!
>Second, those tags have waaaaaaay more
>value to the public if
>they are distributed at the
>expo than put back in
>the general draw.
***Easy for to you to say that! Now prove it and in your convoluted mind you'll probably spin it a few ways to try and prove that you think it does. It might if the SFW did with all the money what RMEF had in it's bid, but it is way lacking from the money the RMEF would have paid back to the state even if it only drew the minimal crowds that the SFW does and it would have exceeded that many thousand of persons IF you look up the stats for each of the conventions.
>
>Third, you don't have the support
>of the sportsmen in the
>state you claim you have.
> Yall are just a
>bunch of loud mouths on
>an internet forum and you
>ain't got much support from
>off the street.
***How in the haydes do you know what support who has and doesn't have? Answer is that you don't, but it sounds like one heck of a good argument. It's too bad that the SFW has infiltrated every step of politics up to, and including, the Governor's office in Utah. With that being the case, it's just like one member stated that it's just about impossible to beat "the good old boys" network. It would take millions of dollars out of the pockets of the ordinary citizens to even come close to unseating the SFW, and as Hawkeye stated earlier in this thread, they will unfortunately probably stay entrenched in Utah for years to come because of that. Too bad for Utah and the citizens of the state, but at least the stink of SFW will stay right where it is because there are enough people in all the other states to keep them right where they are now and not let the stench spread.
>
>Keep screaming boys. I'm holding
>your nose to the floor
>on this one.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
"attracts so many more people and makes so much more money"
Says the group who begged for the tags and then ran away like whooped curs when they didn't get them.
" Now prove it"
I don't have to. RMEF proved it when they ran away after not getting the bid.
"impossible to beat "the good old boys" network."
Not impossible if there was any truth to anything you said before this statement. The good ol' boys don't get to decide who buys tickets to an event, or merchandise at an event, or vendors who buy booths and donate to the event. Do you think good ol' boys decide whether the RMEF show anywhere else is a success or not???? No slick, its the people who spend money at the show. People who believe in the cause AND THERE AIN'T A "GOOD OL' BOY NETWORK" that can stop that. That leaves one of two options. RMEF either doesn't have the support of the majority of sportsmen in Utah like you spout or RMEF needed that bid way more than just the dollars from a tag give away which you are to chicken to admit. Blaming the good ol' boys is just another lame cop out from the dead horse jockies.
Says the group who begged for the tags and then ran away like whooped curs when they didn't get them.
" Now prove it"
I don't have to. RMEF proved it when they ran away after not getting the bid.
"impossible to beat "the good old boys" network."
Not impossible if there was any truth to anything you said before this statement. The good ol' boys don't get to decide who buys tickets to an event, or merchandise at an event, or vendors who buy booths and donate to the event. Do you think good ol' boys decide whether the RMEF show anywhere else is a success or not???? No slick, its the people who spend money at the show. People who believe in the cause AND THERE AIN'T A "GOOD OL' BOY NETWORK" that can stop that. That leaves one of two options. RMEF either doesn't have the support of the majority of sportsmen in Utah like you spout or RMEF needed that bid way more than just the dollars from a tag give away which you are to chicken to admit. Blaming the good ol' boys is just another lame cop out from the dead horse jockies.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 05:50PM (MST)[p]"Second, those tags have waaaaaaay more value to the public if they are distributed at the expo than put back in the general draw."
Actually, no. Those tags still carry the same value to the state that any normal draw tag does - the fee based on the residency of who wins. An LE bull is still only valued at $800 to the state for a non-resident.
The expo is a fund raising event and those monies generated are not ear marked to run the department of wildlife. Only the tag fees are. Hence, the whole point to RMEF giving ALL money raised back to the state of UT less operating expense for the expo to fund conservation projects outside the arena of budgeted items.
That is public knowledge as indicated in their proposal...
Actually, no. Those tags still carry the same value to the state that any normal draw tag does - the fee based on the residency of who wins. An LE bull is still only valued at $800 to the state for a non-resident.
The expo is a fund raising event and those monies generated are not ear marked to run the department of wildlife. Only the tag fees are. Hence, the whole point to RMEF giving ALL money raised back to the state of UT less operating expense for the expo to fund conservation projects outside the arena of budgeted items.
That is public knowledge as indicated in their proposal...
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
"AND THERE AIN'T A "GOOD OL' BOY NETWORK" that can stop that. That leaves one of two options. RMEF either doesn't have the support of the majority of sportsmen in Utah"
Good 'ol boy means it doesn't matter what you do, someone is always going to be coddled because of some thrill they put up the leg of someone else.
You would be surprised the disdain many a Utahn has for SFW. This ain't the only UT based forum...
Good 'ol boy means it doesn't matter what you do, someone is always going to be coddled because of some thrill they put up the leg of someone else.
You would be surprised the disdain many a Utahn has for SFW. This ain't the only UT based forum...
Hey Try, How was your weekend of hunting. Oh that's right, you didn't hunt. You sat on your fat TexASS ass arguing on the internet.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
How pathetic is your life? What a loser.
Still haven't posted any hunting pics huh? Not surprised.
Try the cowardly question dodger calling other people question dodgers. Priceless!
Hey Try, why did you delete your Wade Lemon guides sheep poachers in closed units thread?????????????
Hey Try, how many members does $FW have??????You don't have to answer that because you don't know. Nobody knows. It's so pathetically low their membership numbers are a secret.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
How pathetic is your life? What a loser.
Still haven't posted any hunting pics huh? Not surprised.
Try the cowardly question dodger calling other people question dodgers. Priceless!
Hey Try, why did you delete your Wade Lemon guides sheep poachers in closed units thread?????????????
Hey Try, how many members does $FW have??????You don't have to answer that because you don't know. Nobody knows. It's so pathetically low their membership numbers are a secret.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
Makes zero sense dude...
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 07:06PM (MST)[p]Tristate is beyond help. Lol
Tri-
If I was your neighbor and you watched me take a doo-doo on your front porch, should I question why you wouldn't like me as a neighbor and not associate with me?
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Tri-
If I was your neighbor and you watched me take a doo-doo on your front porch, should I question why you wouldn't like me as a neighbor and not associate with me?
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
I believe there are people in Utah that don't like SFW. I've never said that isn't the case. I know people who think they have seen aliens and others who think LSD makes you smarter.
I truly believe some of these same people love RMEF and some don't. But I am sick of this bullshine narrative that EVERYONE knows that SFW is a powerful criminal organization, able to fool all the government agencies set in place to fight government corruption for the giant profit of a few hundred thousand dollars a year. And some how a team of dead horse jockies with two quotes and sore butts have the goods on them.
It sounds stupid BECAUSE IT'S STUPID.
I truly believe some of these same people love RMEF and some don't. But I am sick of this bullshine narrative that EVERYONE knows that SFW is a powerful criminal organization, able to fool all the government agencies set in place to fight government corruption for the giant profit of a few hundred thousand dollars a year. And some how a team of dead horse jockies with two quotes and sore butts have the goods on them.
It sounds stupid BECAUSE IT'S STUPID.
>I believe there are people in
>Utah that don't like SFW.
> I've never said
>that isn't the case. I
>know people who think they
>have seen aliens and others
>who think LSD makes you
>smarter.
>
>I truly believe some of these
>same people love RMEF and
>some don't. But I
>am sick of this bullshine
>narrative that EVERYONE knows that
>SFW is a powerful criminal
>organization, able to fool all
>the government agencies set in
>place to fight government corruption
>for the giant profit of
>a few hundred thousand dollars
>a year. And some
>how a team of dead
>horse jockies with two quotes
>and sore butts have the
>goods on them.
>
>It sounds stupid BECAUSE IT'S STUPID.
>
Spin it son, spin it, as nothing you just posted has been stated by any of us on this thread other than yourself!
>Utah that don't like SFW.
> I've never said
>that isn't the case. I
>know people who think they
>have seen aliens and others
>who think LSD makes you
>smarter.
>
>I truly believe some of these
>same people love RMEF and
>some don't. But I
>am sick of this bullshine
>narrative that EVERYONE knows that
>SFW is a powerful criminal
>organization, able to fool all
>the government agencies set in
>place to fight government corruption
>for the giant profit of
>a few hundred thousand dollars
>a year. And some
>how a team of dead
>horse jockies with two quotes
>and sore butts have the
>goods on them.
>
>It sounds stupid BECAUSE IT'S STUPID.
>
Spin it son, spin it, as nothing you just posted has been stated by any of us on this thread other than yourself!
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,860
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-18 AT 07:30PM (MST)[p]No need to lie boy. You have been so firm now why you crawfishin'?
Scared people starting to see how stupid this all looks?
" There is absolutely no reason other than possible wrongdoing as to why the SFW won't open their books "
Post 318
There are literally hundreds of times on these threads you have accused SFW of corruption.
Scared people starting to see how stupid this all looks?
" There is absolutely no reason other than possible wrongdoing as to why the SFW won't open their books "
Post 318
There are literally hundreds of times on these threads you have accused SFW of corruption.
>No need to lie boy.
>You have been so firm
>now why you crawfishin'?
>
>Scared people starting to see how
>stupid this all looks?
>
>" There is absolutely no reason
>other than possible wrongdoing as
>to why the SFW won't
>open their books "
>
>Post 318
>
>There are literally hundreds of times
>on these threads you have
>accused SFW of corruption.
Your post was one hell of a stretch and twist from what I stated in post # 318 son! You can spin stuff so much that you either believe what you posted or are dumber than a stump due to a lack of reading comprehension and it's probably both!
>You have been so firm
>now why you crawfishin'?
>
>Scared people starting to see how
>stupid this all looks?
>
>" There is absolutely no reason
>other than possible wrongdoing as
>to why the SFW won't
>open their books "
>
>Post 318
>
>There are literally hundreds of times
>on these threads you have
>accused SFW of corruption.
Your post was one hell of a stretch and twist from what I stated in post # 318 son! You can spin stuff so much that you either believe what you posted or are dumber than a stump due to a lack of reading comprehension and it's probably both!
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-18 AT 03:07AM (MST)[p]Tristate says
" But I am sick of this bullshine narrative that EVERYONE knows that SFW is a powerful criminal organization, able to fool all the government agencies set in place to fight government corruption for the giant profit of a few hundred thousand dollars a year."
LOL!
They haven't fooled anyone! Maybe except you and birdy!
Even some state politicians have said it's a can of worms.
Does that sound good to you?
Tristate
Will you please explain or show us how or where you come up with this "few hundred thousand dollars a year" stuff?
Cuz you are the only one mentioning this.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
" But I am sick of this bullshine narrative that EVERYONE knows that SFW is a powerful criminal organization, able to fool all the government agencies set in place to fight government corruption for the giant profit of a few hundred thousand dollars a year."
LOL!
They haven't fooled anyone! Maybe except you and birdy!
Even some state politicians have said it's a can of worms.
Does that sound good to you?
Tristate
Will you please explain or show us how or where you come up with this "few hundred thousand dollars a year" stuff?
Cuz you are the only one mentioning this.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
heartshot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,474
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-18 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-18 AT 12:23?PM (MST)
TROLL: "I'm just trying to get my head around a group that says they want to have a national event in Utah. They say they don't need the money from the tags. But then they decide they aren't going to have an event there after they don't get the money from the tags???????????"
TROLL: "How is that logic? If they didn't need tag money WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR HAVING A MAJOR EVENT IN UTAH? They must have had some other reason for wanting to have the event in Utah. Can one of you dead horse beaters come up with the reason?"
For RMEF the tags would for sure help with attendance and thereby increase profit. As a thank you for the increased profit, RMEF would commit 100% of the millions of dollars in tag application fees for wildlife projects in Utah.
For SWF the tags for sure help with attendance and thereby increase profit. As a thank you for the increased profit, SWF can pocket millions of dollars in tag application fees.
Utah showed RMEF that they did not like their proposed thank you offer. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth if I were RMEF. One of the RFP evaluation criteria was to have held a major event in UT in the last five years. SFW essentially has the contract locked up for ten years now. If RMEF was to have a major expo in UT this year, it would do them no good in future proposal evaluations because it would be past the 5 year criteria once another RFP goes out. They would be better off to rotate through UT at a much later date.
I've always known that TRISTATE was a troll. Nothing new learned.
I always considered Birdman as someone who just has a different opinion as me. A lot learned on this thread about his true colors (not good).
TROLL: "I'm just trying to get my head around a group that says they want to have a national event in Utah. They say they don't need the money from the tags. But then they decide they aren't going to have an event there after they don't get the money from the tags???????????"
TROLL: "How is that logic? If they didn't need tag money WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR HAVING A MAJOR EVENT IN UTAH? They must have had some other reason for wanting to have the event in Utah. Can one of you dead horse beaters come up with the reason?"
For RMEF the tags would for sure help with attendance and thereby increase profit. As a thank you for the increased profit, RMEF would commit 100% of the millions of dollars in tag application fees for wildlife projects in Utah.
For SWF the tags for sure help with attendance and thereby increase profit. As a thank you for the increased profit, SWF can pocket millions of dollars in tag application fees.
Utah showed RMEF that they did not like their proposed thank you offer. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth if I were RMEF. One of the RFP evaluation criteria was to have held a major event in UT in the last five years. SFW essentially has the contract locked up for ten years now. If RMEF was to have a major expo in UT this year, it would do them no good in future proposal evaluations because it would be past the 5 year criteria once another RFP goes out. They would be better off to rotate through UT at a much later date.
I've always known that TRISTATE was a troll. Nothing new learned.
I always considered Birdman as someone who just has a different opinion as me. A lot learned on this thread about his true colors (not good).
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Guess we all know now why so many sportsmen didn't want this sham to get off the ground to begin with.
It's been an absolute farce from the jump.
Getting support from all the major CONS groups to sell this sham, then having all but three drop before the first expo ever happened.
Using wildlife to fill hotel rooms.
Paying a guy that plead to killing a caged, tame bear and trying to play it off as some kind of record for year one entertainment.
President of $FW drawing a sheep tag.
Space set aside for NASP kids to compete and suddenly having that space pulled at the last minute to use as booth space. BTW these kids had to jump through all the hoops any high school athlete did to be eligible to compete. Sorry kids, all that work you've done academically as well as actually learning to shoot a bow, theres always next year.
Co-mingled funds.
Bogus audits.
Pulling teeth to get ANY amount from the tag applications back on the ground for wildlife.
Then the fixed bid.
Whats not to love here??
"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."
LONETREE 3/15/16
It's been an absolute farce from the jump.
Getting support from all the major CONS groups to sell this sham, then having all but three drop before the first expo ever happened.
Using wildlife to fill hotel rooms.
Paying a guy that plead to killing a caged, tame bear and trying to play it off as some kind of record for year one entertainment.
President of $FW drawing a sheep tag.
Space set aside for NASP kids to compete and suddenly having that space pulled at the last minute to use as booth space. BTW these kids had to jump through all the hoops any high school athlete did to be eligible to compete. Sorry kids, all that work you've done academically as well as actually learning to shoot a bow, theres always next year.
Co-mingled funds.
Bogus audits.
Pulling teeth to get ANY amount from the tag applications back on the ground for wildlife.
Then the fixed bid.
Whats not to love here??
"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."
LONETREE 3/15/16
>Guess we all know now why
>so many sportsmen didn't want
>this sham to get off
>the ground to begin with.
>
>
>It's been an absolute farce from
>the jump.
>
>Getting support from all the major
>CONS groups to sell this
>sham, then having all but
>three drop before the first
>expo ever happened.
>
>Using wildlife to fill hotel rooms.
>
>
>Paying a guy that plead to
>killing a caged, tame bear
>and trying to play it
>off as some kind of
>record for year one entertainment.
>
>
>President of $FW drawing a sheep
>tag.
>
>Space set aside for NASP kids
>to compete and suddenly having
>that space pulled at the
>last minute to use as
>booth space. BTW these kids
>had to jump through all
>the hoops any high school
>athlete did to be eligible
>to compete. Sorry kids, all
>that work you've done academically
>as well as actually learning
>to shoot a bow, theres
>always next year.
>
>Co-mingled funds.
>
>Bogus audits.
>
>Pulling teeth to get ANY amount
>from the tag applications back
>on the ground for wildlife.
>
>
>Then the fixed bid.
>
>
>
>Whats not to love here??
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"If the DWR was just doing
>its job, and
>wildlife and hunting were the actual
>focus,
>none of this process would even
>matter.
>But that is not the focus
>or the goal in any
>
>of this. The current DWR regime,
>and
>SFW were born out of wildlife
>declines,
>and are currently operated and funded
>
>under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
>
>tags would not even be worth
>anything if
>the focus was where it was
>supposed to
>be, and wildlife and tags were
>plentiful.
>But under the current business model,
>
>that is how the money and
>power is
>generated. It is generated through the
>
>rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
>resource. A resource that is supposed
>to
>be being beneficially managed for the
>
>masses that own that resource, ie.
>US.
>The problem is obvious, hedging is
>not a
>long term sustainable strategy, and
>others have to lose, for some
>to win. In
>this case it is us, the
>many, and our
>resources, that are being forced to
>lose,
>because there is a minority who's
>power
>and money is derived from our
>loses."
>
>LONETREE 3/15/16
+1 Well said !
>so many sportsmen didn't want
>this sham to get off
>the ground to begin with.
>
>
>It's been an absolute farce from
>the jump.
>
>Getting support from all the major
>CONS groups to sell this
>sham, then having all but
>three drop before the first
>expo ever happened.
>
>Using wildlife to fill hotel rooms.
>
>
>Paying a guy that plead to
>killing a caged, tame bear
>and trying to play it
>off as some kind of
>record for year one entertainment.
>
>
>President of $FW drawing a sheep
>tag.
>
>Space set aside for NASP kids
>to compete and suddenly having
>that space pulled at the
>last minute to use as
>booth space. BTW these kids
>had to jump through all
>the hoops any high school
>athlete did to be eligible
>to compete. Sorry kids, all
>that work you've done academically
>as well as actually learning
>to shoot a bow, theres
>always next year.
>
>Co-mingled funds.
>
>Bogus audits.
>
>Pulling teeth to get ANY amount
>from the tag applications back
>on the ground for wildlife.
>
>
>Then the fixed bid.
>
>
>
>Whats not to love here??
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"If the DWR was just doing
>its job, and
>wildlife and hunting were the actual
>focus,
>none of this process would even
>matter.
>But that is not the focus
>or the goal in any
>
>of this. The current DWR regime,
>and
>SFW were born out of wildlife
>declines,
>and are currently operated and funded
>
>under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
>
>tags would not even be worth
>anything if
>the focus was where it was
>supposed to
>be, and wildlife and tags were
>plentiful.
>But under the current business model,
>
>that is how the money and
>power is
>generated. It is generated through the
>
>rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
>resource. A resource that is supposed
>to
>be being beneficially managed for the
>
>masses that own that resource, ie.
>US.
>The problem is obvious, hedging is
>not a
>long term sustainable strategy, and
>others have to lose, for some
>to win. In
>this case it is us, the
>many, and our
>resources, that are being forced to
>lose,
>because there is a minority who's
>power
>and money is derived from our
>loses."
>
>LONETREE 3/15/16
+1 Well said !
You would think that Organization and Fish and game would have something for Veterans as I called the F&G and asked about surrendering my Tag to a Vet and said no and I asked why and he said he didn't know why, but they sure can surrender our tags to $FW.
>
> You
>would think that Organization and
>Fish and game would have
>something for Veterans as I
>called the F&G and asked
>about surrendering my Tag to
>a Vet and said no
>and I asked why and
>he said he didn't know
>why, but they sure can
>surrender our tags to $FW.
>
Let Tri and Birdman auction that tag off for you Walt and they can give a deserving Vet %30 of the profits and take the other %70 like SFW does all those tags they get! I had to post it like that so Tri would understand what a deal he'd get doing that, LOL!
> You
>would think that Organization and
>Fish and game would have
>something for Veterans as I
>called the F&G and asked
>about surrendering my Tag to
>a Vet and said no
>and I asked why and
>he said he didn't know
>why, but they sure can
>surrender our tags to $FW.
>
Let Tri and Birdman auction that tag off for you Walt and they can give a deserving Vet %30 of the profits and take the other %70 like SFW does all those tags they get! I had to post it like that so Tri would understand what a deal he'd get doing that, LOL!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,522
I felt like if I jumped in at 500 it would seem wrong if I hadn't posted before.
I listen to Jay Scott. I've read a bunch of stuff from Arizona. The joke that is the expo, and the corruption associated scares those Arizona boys so bad they would rather face the Humane Society with no money, then "expo" off tags to raise cash for the fight.
SFW exists nowhere else, and in fact is chased out of states.
You'd think as successful as SFW and their model is it would be replicated somewhere. Interesting its not.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
I listen to Jay Scott. I've read a bunch of stuff from Arizona. The joke that is the expo, and the corruption associated scares those Arizona boys so bad they would rather face the Humane Society with no money, then "expo" off tags to raise cash for the fight.
SFW exists nowhere else, and in fact is chased out of states.
You'd think as successful as SFW and their model is it would be replicated somewhere. Interesting its not.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,756
It actually started off good, but soon became what it is. Some local chapters in other states (mine) still do things the way they started, but then RMEF has stepped up their game and is now more well attended.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-18 AT 07:01PM (MST)[p]>It actually started off good, but
>soon became what it is.
> Some local chapters in
>other states (mine) still do
>things the way they started,
>but then RMEF has stepped
>up their game and is
>now more well attended.
The Cody, WY Chapter of SFW, which was the biggest in Wyoming, got so fed up with all their money going to the main office and not much coming back for their various projects that they sent a letter leaving the SFW and started their own organization. Conjecture was that all, or most, of their money was going to pay the salary of Bob Wharff, top dog for SFW in Wyoming. Here's a copy of the very telling letter sent to their members of the action the Chapter was taking. It sounds exactly like what we're discussing about transparency with the Utah tags and they can't even be transparent with their own Chapters and members!
>soon became what it is.
> Some local chapters in
>other states (mine) still do
>things the way they started,
>but then RMEF has stepped
>up their game and is
>now more well attended.
The Cody, WY Chapter of SFW, which was the biggest in Wyoming, got so fed up with all their money going to the main office and not much coming back for their various projects that they sent a letter leaving the SFW and started their own organization. Conjecture was that all, or most, of their money was going to pay the salary of Bob Wharff, top dog for SFW in Wyoming. Here's a copy of the very telling letter sent to their members of the action the Chapter was taking. It sounds exactly like what we're discussing about transparency with the Utah tags and they can't even be transparent with their own Chapters and members!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,522
When they 1st started here(Utah) the did s bunch of raffles on guns and stuff, bought a bunch of tickets.
Then they really rallied on prop5, which was great.
Somewhere the "average Utah sportsman" was replaced by auction tags.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Then they really rallied on prop5, which was great.
Somewhere the "average Utah sportsman" was replaced by auction tags.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
