New Rifle RUM's .300 or .338

[awbmab]

Within the next year or so I would like to get a new rifle. I am considering a .338 RUM or .300 RUM, though I am definitely leaning toward the .338. This will be to play with as a long range target practice rifle, and also take out for elk.
A few questions
1. Do I buy a factory 700 and then have it customized a bit at time, or do I start from scratch and have it built. I should be able to spend 2-3k initially, and then more as necessary.
2. What is best for recoil reduction, stocks, pads, breaks, etc. I regularly shoot a 7mm rem mag, and have shot a .338 win mag quite a bit, if I could get the recoil somewhere in that range I would be happy with it.
3. What are the positives and negatives of the two different rounds mainly as a long range target rifle, they will both work well on elk though I like the weight of the .338 better for elk.

 

[marley]

I just got my custom .300 RUM back yesterday and it is a beaut. I'll try to post some pics later.

Here's my thoughts on the two calibers. There isn't anything that the .338 can kill more dead at any range than the .300 can with less recoil.

 

[awbmab]

I know that they both will kill an elk, my dad has a .338 win mag and it is an elk killing machine with its increase mass/diameter is why I was leaning toward the .338. How about at long range does the .300 have the knockdown power?

 

[Boskee]

Both will kill an elk just fine. There's plus's and minus' to each round but in the big game the .300 will be a little more versatile for most individuals and can offer a much larger selection of bullet weights for other game. They are both fine cartridges in their own right.

 

[centerfire]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-10 AT 06:16PM (MST)[p]


I would go 338 RUM.

I have one, they are great. Very accurate, loads of killing power.
Wish you luck.

 

[RACKMASTER]

.338 rum is my next rifle

rackmaster

 

[RV]

If it is an elk gun I would go with the 338 rum.

 

[Cahunter805]

If money isnt that big of a deal why not a 338edge?? Thats a 300RUM necked up to 338. If not Id go 338RUM for sure.

 

[stinkystomper]

If your gonna spend 2 to 3 grand get yourself a sako trg 42 in 338 lapua mag. You can watch gunbroker and pick one up for less than $2500 and spend $400 on the tripod. No muzzle break needed and the recoil is considerably light. I easily shoot 3 to 4 inch groups at 800 yards with factory ammo. It dwarfs a 300 win mag for long range shooting because the win mag looses too much energy to ethically take an elk past 700 yards imho. But these are just my worthless opinions.



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[stinkystomper]

but to answer ur question the 338 rum has much more energy capabilities than the 300 rum. however both are good long range guns and both are in a league of their own compared to a 300 win mag. 300 win mag ballistics really blow





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[BuckSnort]

>300 win
>mag ballistics really blow
>
>
>

Yeah but one well placed shot really makes a difference compared to a quickly unloaded banana clip full of 338 Lapua...

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[Boskee]

+1bucksnort and then there's that ever complelling fact that every guy loves to lug his 14lb Lapua around the mtns just to be cool. Those little RUMs and WBY's will all do the same job but just don't have the stability some require for their shots because they don't weigh enough. To each his own.... but in the end we will won't have to face the issue that our gun out weighs what's left of our elk! Still there are advantages to going in heavy and coming out light!

 

[mtmuley]

The RUMs seem to be a love or hate thing. I love my .300 that weighs about 8 lbs with scope. I can pack this rifle all day anywhere, but it has the ability to stretch it if I need to. mtmuley

 

[Boskee]

I think you're on the right track Mt. Muley and you have a gun that will flat do the job. Not saying that the TRG in .338 Lapua isn't a capable rifle ( we all know it is) but all things are relative in the equation. There are hundreds of guns on here in many calibers that will do the job from a ballistical standpoint and the RUMs and WBY are just fine for guys looking at those cartridges in either .300 or .338. I seriously doubt that any individual shooting a .300 RUM or a .30/.378 would be considered under gunned for elk. When we start saying the the .300's aren't adequate for killing an elk it's time to rethink the equation a bit.

Bullets usually fail or don't kill 98% of the time BECAUSE of the guy pulling the trigger not as a result of their design. Some guys are under the false impression that going larger will ultimately make them a better shot when historically that's simply not true. Will the .338 RUM kill an elk you bet but so will that lowly little .300 RUM or .30/.378 just like that poor little old under powered .338 winchester mag can and we're not talking dangerous game here. The guys that fill their tags more often than not are the ones that select a caliber and a gun that allows them to shoot to their potential at whatever range they elect to shoot just like you did. Given some of the myths on here we all need to be shooting .50BMG to make sure we have the absolute best in wind bucking and accuracy at long range but none the less we manage to get by. Kind of defies logic and practical application doesn't it....Go figure I'm sure the classifieds will be over run with guys looking to sell their .300's because they ain't worth a hoot!

 

[440sixpack]

I'm getting 3180 FPS with a 180 out of my 300 win mag so I wouldn't say it sucks too bad.


To answer your question first you have to decide what you really want and what it's worth to you. if you want a average weight rifle that's an average shooter the 700 will give you the most bang for your buck. if you want a target/road hunting rifle one of the heavy rifles will probably shoot better and you get what you pay for.

I was in the same position as you a few years ago and here's what I did and what I think afterwards. I wanted a long range accurate rifle and since my 300 win wasn't that far off from a 300 RUM so I went with the 338 RUM. I wanted it light enough I could pack it all day and carry it in my saddle scabbard without haveing to balance it with a rock on the off side. I wanted something better than average so I sent a Win M-70 action to Mark Bansner and had him barrel it in a #3 Lilja and stock it for me ( about $1500 total ) and the work is fantastic. it weighs around 8lbs field ready and shoots sub MOA if I can do my part. problem is it kicks so damn bad am still hunting with my 300 win mag, it's like shooting a .22 in comparison.


My advice is put a muzzle brake on if you're going to build a rifle or be prepared to fear it the recoil it's very impressive. if you have a good 300 win or WBY mag I'd go with the 338 RUM or you're really not gaining that much. I found the velocity for loads listed in the manuals are easy to meet or beat so you should have no trouble there. it's a quite a round if you can handle it.

 

[longshooter338]

In all seriousness you dont need a trg42 in 338 lapua allthough thats all the stinkster can compute i started with a 338 rum in rem 700 vlss spent the money and tricked the shat out of it and well lets just say all you need is one well placed shot on elk and they appear to be struck by lightning 373 inch pahvaunt bull 690 yds by a friend that had never even fired my gun entil the moment and nate weighs a meger 140 lbs so to answer the question its 338 rum all the way.

 

[NVBighorn]

Sold!

Dude, catch your breath. Oh, and here.

.

Thats a period. Try using more than one in a paragraph.

 

[stinkystomper]

Pretty much any 338 will do the job long range but if you don't plan on shooting past 400 yards get a 30-06. I personally have always been a major fan of the 270. Its kinda slow and doesn't have tons of knock down power but it's the gun I grew up with and I will always favor that gun over most calibers. Why do I say the trg 42? because I hate recoil. If I'm gonna shoot a large caliber I want some weight on my gun to hold it back. I've shot many of the 300 rum's and I haven't shot one yet that didn't ring my bell when I pulled the trigger. I really do love the ballistics on those 300 rums but holy crap you better know how to hold that gun tight or that things gonna hurt you.


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[Boskee]

Why stinky I'm impressed (not that it matters to you I'm sure). You actually mentioned a nonmagnum as a good cartridge. The only place you went astray was saying tha .300 ballistics blow in that that bore be it in the .300H&H, .308Norma Mag, .300Win Mag, .30/06, .308, .300RUM and the .30/.378 has probably accounted for more animals killed than any bore on earth. I can understand your long range application somewhat but make no mistake about it that bore has held it's share of long range records & kills too just like the vaunted .7mm which is capable of handling an elk too, so like you said many will work find the one that works for your application and enjoy.

 

[stinkystomper]

The main reason why I like my gun boskee is the heat. I shot several big bores and couldn't get quick 3 shot tight groups. The 338 378 and 30/378 would heat up so much the bullets would start to stray. I'm really not versed all that well in guns so I'm not sure if its the completely free floated barrel of the trg or what it is but it can punch out sub moa groups as fast as you can pull the trigger with no cool down time. As for the 300 rum I'm afraid of shooting them because the ones I've shot all kick like a mule. If I wasn't shooting my lapua my next best calibers are the .22-250, 222 remington, 270 win, and the 25-06. So my question to you Boskee is this. Do you know enough about guns to answer my question of why my 338 trg doesn't have heat problems. Why does my 338-378 wby suck under heat? are there other large bore's that can punch out tight goups with hot barrels. I was always told big bores are just not as accurate as the smaller calibers so when I fired a trg group I was set in my ways that I would never change rifles. What are your experiences? I'm gonna start another post on which rifle for cheap but will probably not be able to start a serious post and get serious answers but we will see.




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[awbmab]

>problem is it kicks so
>damn bad am still hunting
>with my 300 win mag,


Thats what I don't want to happen. So in addition to a muzzle break, are there different stocks that can help reduce the recoil to make it tolerable, without making the gun weigh 15 lbs.

 

[cbeard]

awbmab-

If recoil is a concern frankly I can't see why you have limited your choices to the RUMs.

Just sayin'...

 

[Boskee]

Stinky. The trg has a heavy barrel taper on it for a reason the heat effects the groups less with a bigger barrel. Fluting can help with the heat but can effect accuracy (not always) but when you're shooting for the tinyest deviations in group size it can matter. Without looking at your gun I would suspect that they allow a little freebore to lower the pressure curve and help disspate the heat upon ignition. Given that you're only shooting 3 shot groups that in itself helps tremendously with a case with that capacity. You know and I know that that gun was built for military application primarily and all sniper rifles have heavy contoured barrels on them because they're more rigid and less prone to the effects of heat which can effect the ocillation patterns of the barrel which can have a profound effect on accuracy and actually influence the way the bullets travels thru the barrel as it heats up and bullet engraves the rifling. Bigger cases create more heat and heat can be the culprit to accuracy in many instances. All guns if given enough repeat firing will show some degradation in accuracy as the componets absorb heat and things change. It's being able to allow for these deviations and build a gun that will maintain a high level of accuracy when hot is where they have excelled with your TRG. I would suspect that your other guns barrel contours not being as heavy will play with their accuracy to a large extent. Guns used in military application are prone to more stress and as such are usually built to accomodate a more extensive firing sequence. They may have incorporated some technology in other areas with your gun to allow enhanced cooling and it could be something as simple a a coating in the barrel or the composition of the alloy used in the barrel itself. Different metals cool at different rates given their molecular structure. I really don't know stinky but I'm sure it's proprietary in nature if they used some new technology. All guns aren't created equal that why they have military and consumer models avialable. That's my best guess not having seen your gun, and I know it's not much help.

 

[440sixpack]

I had a similar 338 RUM built before with a Pac Nor barrel and a muzzle brake, it shot like crap but the recoil was tolerable.

I dumped it and built this one without the brake, I hate brakes but in a light weight of this caliber I'm a believer now . forget the stock and the other stuff a brake or lots of weight is all you have to work with.

 

[Boskee]

+1 440 But like Cbeard mentioned there are other choices that shoot well at long range that will fill the bill if you don't like recoil like most of us and don't want to use a brake. if not what you hate to carry is your best friend when it comes to taming recoil and like you my best pack mule days are behind me so I'll compromise knowing that giving up a little accuracy can actually be of more benefit in different instances where portability and ease of use far outweigh that extra weight on my back and legs over a long hunt.

 

[440sixpack]

A agree, I have a custom 300 win mag that weights about 7 lbs field ready and shoots sum moa so I can't really see why I need anything else for elk size game. if a 180 at near 3200 can't do it I'm shooting too far. this has a lot to do with why my 338 RUM still doesn't have a brake and isn't getting used.

 

[stinkystomper]

Hey boskee, I've never heard of the taper being a component used to disipate heat. It does make sense and sounds completely legit. thanks for the info. I knew heavy barrels help and all but I'm no machinist or mechanic so I'm not sure on the alloys and all. All I know is that the trg is awesome and that if military rifles are built to this standard I'm definitely gonna limit my rifle purchases in the future to military based sniper rifles.

Thanks for the info man.


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[peakfreak]

Bigger is better. I have a 338RUM and love it. It has a brake on it. No hard kick just a big push. 250gr. tsx @3000fps It's a little heavy but i like it that way. It's a big caliber. Great on bison.

"You'll never get a big one if you shoot a little one"

 

[Boskee]

Stinky, I tried to explain some of the reasons to you about heat and barrels and of course propellants are a huge part of the equation in that relationship. Military guns are offered with many different advantages in some models that are for military application only and have to do with fire rates logistical support items and other various reasons.

That being said many sporter rifles that are made today come very close to duplicating the accuracy of the more heavily barreled sniper rifles. They just won't be able to duplicate the same accuracy over a much longer fire sequence because of the heat factor and the shooting platform being lighter in some heavier recoiling guns will show as they shoot. You keep that sporter cool and keep it on the bags right and it will DUPLICATE or come very close to the performance level of that heavier gun in many cases in a well made gun. Tame the recoil and you level the field even more, and chose a cartridge that you shoot well with decent ballistics and the edge becomes even smaller. It's chosing a gun that fits your priority's and hunting style and one that allows you to shoot well is what makes the difference in the end. All the rest is splitting hairs because dead is dead no matter how fast that bullet was going and or how long a barrel you have. Given the caliber selection and bullet quality we have today there's something out there to fit everybody's needs and hunting style. That's why those Sharps rifles were making long shots over 100 years ago and your TRG is today and an out of the box Remington or Savage, or semi custom can today, not too bad at all.