No minds changed

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202typical

Long Time Member
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Well we have just about hashed out the worlds problems here in the last few months. Is there any political topic we have not touched on? I don't think so.....well maybe........I don't think we argued Affirmative Action. But any way, we are coming up on some important elections so it is in our line of sight right now to argue politics. I seriously doubt that I changed T's, D's, Dude,s or Ziggas minds as I am sure those guys have not changed mine or hunt4fx, HH, quakeycrazy or woodruffhunter. But I find it refreshing to argue these points and see what others opinions are. It is good for thought and it is about as American as apple pie. I only hope I have not offended anybody as I have not been offended in the least.
At the end of the day we can all agree on hunting and we have far more in common than some may think after reading our politics :)

I head to Wyoming in a week for some Monster Mule Deer hunting and I am chomping at the bit. I hope I am lucky and take a 30" buck.

202
 
good luck with your hunt. Just watch out for those liberal hunters, they will be the ones at the top of the mountain or at the ends of the deepest canyons.

While hunting down there, take notice of the pressure - I can tell you this, unless your hunting on closed, private ground, you will run into people - and likely lots of them. . .

I've never hunted a state with as much hunting pressure as wyoming, it's out of control in some places!

Stay safe and may you find the buck of your dreams!
 
good thing there's lots of habitat (most of it on public lands) in Wyoming. The mix of low, valley farm land and public forest and range lands make for some very productive habitat. You cant go anywhere in Wyoming, without seeing public resources, and if you plan to kill, that deer/elk is owned by the citizens of the state, it's a public resource therefore you still are exploiting a public goods. That's okay with me, youre a tax payer, right?
 
202, I think we all want the same thing we just see different ways to get there, good luck on your hunt.
 
202 Good luck!!! I'll be up in South Eastern Montana in about 6 weeks looking for a monster muley. I'll be hunting public land that is seldom hunted and when the area is hunted they hunt from the road so my area receives little to no pressure b/c few people there are willing to hike the mile or two to get where the big ones are.

I hate politics and don't like being politically correct. I know I've offended a couple of folks because of it. I am blunt and don't plan to change. I don't go out of my way to offend, but my words do that sometimes. My apologies to those offended. Even though some of us don't agree on stuff like that, I truly believe that if any of you were at my camp, we'd enjoy our time. Thanks to all

Pics 202
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-20-06 AT 06:04PM (MST)[p]Well said 202. I hope that's what your buck scores!

HuntFX4, stay safe in Iraq and I hope you get to join all of us on the hunt soon! Or it sounds like you're home now?

Zigga, how did it go in Alaska?

Steve
 
Steve,

Alaska was great! I never bought tags but videoed for a friend and got some great stuff. Very few pics and no animals extraordiary. We squeezed 20 days of hunting into 10.
 
202,
politics make me sick but we'll all get through it one way or the other. Thank God we live in a country where we can argue the various points without fear of reprisal from the opposing view.
Good luck on your hunt, be safe and bring back some great stories, memories and pics to share with those of us who will be living our high country deer hunt vicariously through you and a few other lucky tag holders this year!
AM
 
"Thank God we live in a country where we can argue the various points without fear of reprisal from the opposing view."

Hum, I think that's what this country used to be, and what it will again be some day, once the current administration is removed and there's time to get back some balance.

Today, if you dissagree with anything the administration says, (or some people on this board) your a wako, nazi, left-wing loon, or, in some cases, youre considerded no better than the terrorists. I'm not making this stuff up, it's all over the place. I would consider somone calling me a nazi, or wako, becasue my political views happen to be different than a few of the people on this site, reprisal.

Have you been paying any attention to the republican party's propaganda? If you dont agree, or worse, youre a democrat, you cant possiblty make america better. Moreover, reprisal is when one party takes action like defaming or attacking another for what they say, right now the word liberal has been changed to anti-american. . . and it's been done by the right, and I consider it reprisal.
 
"Hum, I think that's what this country used to be, and what it will again be some day, once the current administration is removed and there's time to get back some balance."

OK T that is just way over the top. C'mon you don't honestly believe that.

What is a modern day liberal? In my opinion it is the following:
1. They believe in redistribution of wealth.
2. They make descisions based on emotions rather than logic.
3. They do not want to be held to any moral standards but what ever happens to serve their purpose at the time.
4. They believe America is the cause of all evil through out the world.
5. Anti Capitolism
6. I would not say they are anti American but they want a secular America. To the extent they want "under God" removed from the pledge.
7. They are pro abortion and pro gay life style.
8. They believe Europe is the utopian life style.
9. Their is a fierce hatred of all conservatives. If you don't believe me just listen to AirAmerica radio. The vile filth that spews from those talk show hosts is unbelievably hatefull. Also log on to moveon.org or democraticunderground.org. Wow.

Now T I would submit that the term Liberal in a traditional scence has been highjacked by the far left. It is those far left nuts that have given traditional Liberals a bad name. It is exactly like the way the far left has highjacked the Dem party.

Also the term "Nazi" is held exclusivly for those on the right. That is in no way a term used to describe the far left. Hell they even made commercials on moveon.org morphing Bush into Hitler. So don't go tryin to steal our label. :)

Oh and one more thing.........cut down on the term "moreover"......just kidding you a little.......
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-06 AT 08:45AM (MST)[p]then quit calling me and other's a liberal. There's NO one on this site who fits your definition of liberal. so, therefore, my point is right on target - there is reprisal and SoTex, your the main perpatrator on this site.
 
So what are you if you agree with half of those things? a conlib? so what might a modern conservative be:
1. It's ok to hate someone as long as they're different than you.
2. Rape and pillage the environment as long as there's a buck in it somewhere.
3. We don't need the constitution or Geneva convention , we have the bible.
4. spend money like you stole a credit card they won't raise taxes until our kids are paying the bill anyway.
5. Burn all gays at the stake, when we're done with them we'll look for witches.
6. Use the bible like a carrot on a stick to keep stupid poor poeple voting for us while we send their jobs over seas or bring in Mexicans to fill them.

Ok, some of these might seem a little over the top but if you agree with all of them you just might be a true conservative.
 
None of what you said makes a conservative - it does however make a BUSH.

I agree that both the word liberal and conservative has been hijacked. . .



I've been a conservative all my life, voted republican until this bush - I DID NOT vote for Clinton (I know you wont believe that but it's a FACT - but as I grow older I'm more tollerant and see things more for what they really are. Less idelistic and more sensible.

Would you consider this story a representation of the Bush administration supporting all americans? Is this a liberal article? Is it okay for EPA to ignore theses people?



EPA inspector criticizes agency reviews
By H. JOSEF HEBERT
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
WASHINGTON -- The Environmental Protection Agency is not conducting required reviews to ensure that low-income and minority neighborhoods get the same environmental protection as other communities.
The report by the EPA's inspector general, made public Tuesday, says senior EPA officials have not required regional offices and department heads to conduct environmental justice reviews despite a requirement for such reviews dating back to 1994.
A survey by the IG's office found 60 percent of the respondents - regional offices and program departments - had not conducted the reviews and 87 percent said they had not been asked to do them, according to the report.
Such reviews were required by an executive order President Clinton issued in 1994. It was reaffirmed by EPA administrators in 2001 and again last year, said the report by acting Inspector General Bill Roderick.
Until adequate reviews are conducted, "the agency cannot determine whether its programs cause disproportionately high and adverse human health or environmental effects on minority and low-income populations," the report said.
The EPA in its response to the report said the agency has made concerns about environmental justice an integral part of its activities as it enforces environmental rules and issues new regulations.
But the agency said it agreed with the report's recommendations that called for clearer guidelines and plans for conducting formal environmental justice reviews to ensure the policies are achieving their intent.
A copy of the IG report, dated Sept. 18, was released Tuesday by Sen. John Kerry's office, which said the findings show the EPA is failing to protect minority and low-income communities.
Kerry, D-Mass., said the report shows "this administration couldn't care less" about minority and low-income neighborhoods that often are the site of industrial zones, refineries and power plants.
 
"there is reprisal and SoTex, your the maine perpatrator on this site."?? Where did that come from?

Well if one is not conservative then what is one?
I gues I am a kind of Black and White guy. No gray area with me. A character flaw I gues.

So when folks on this board are talking politics and one is leaning to the right, then we should say they are siding with the _______________________ point of view and when one is leaning to the left, then we should say they are siding with the _____________________ point of view? Could you fill in these blanks for me?

Liberal folks should work to take back their traditional liberal values. Then they won't get so upset when they are called liberal. I am conservative and I am proud of it. I do not understand why liberals are not proud of who they are? Moreover I think that if one happens to be a scocialist they should stand up and be proud of it, if they believe in it, and so on and so on.

Now T if I have called you a liberal then I truly appologise and I will not do it again.
 
You make a good point, I considered myself a conservative until the last 5 or 6 years that's why I've been a republican. maybe when Bush is out of office things will slide back to a more moderate way of thinking and we won't have these sharp contrast we seem have anymore. I guess we shouldn't blame a whole party for the radical actions of a few leaders on either side.
 
"1. They believe in redistribution of wealth.
2. They make descisions based on emotions rather than logic.
3. They do not want to be held to any moral standards but what ever happens to serve their purpose at the time."

That's humorous. Liberal traits? I guess W's the Liberal leader then;

1. Ex. big business kickbacks and tax breaks for the rich (distributing more wealth to the rich)

2. I can't think of one decision regarding Environmental legislation that was done with proper study in recent years, Ex. recent overturn of the Roadless Rule and other legislation by Federal judges based on "not enough scientific study" in their own words.

3. Well, depends on whose "moral" values your talking about I guess..... But there has been a pattern of not wanting to be "accountable" for anything, is that the same?
 
this reinforces my point made earlier. If you argue a point with someone further to the right on the issue then you become "the liberal." Technically you may have a more liberal point of view than the other guy but that doesn't make you a "liberal." It may make you a moderate or a centrist. If you progress that logic then everyone has to have the exact same point of view or there is only a single conservative and EVERYONE to the left of him is a liberal...
T, I understand the basis for your comment about what I said, "thank God we live in a country..." and after rethinking it I guess we all suffer reprisals but that has always been the case. 10 years ago if I stood on the street corner in Dallas Texas I could say some things that would get some "Hell yeahs!" or the offer of a tail kicking. Today the stakes are somewhat higher. But my point was that we can discuss these points in open forums like we are today without fear of censure.
 
So why is no one here ever called a moderate??? Under 202's description of a liberal, I'd say there are none here. Some so-called conservatives like Bobcatbest are good at throwing the L word around without any reasons why. I've been called a liberal on this site so many times I can't count. But there isn't a conservative member on here that can quote me on any tree hugging, gay pride marching, envirothumping......whatever so-called liberals do.

I:

A. Live to hunt and bear arms (without the use of fully automatic rifles with armor piercing bullets)

B. Enjoy clean air and water and public wildlands
C. Want to avoid unneeded American military deaths without jeopardizing the security of this nation

D. Think women should be the ones choosing what is done with their bodies

E. Don't like debt

If this makes me a liberal then I'll gladly take the label.

The problem is a lot of name calling conserative freaks on here don't actually bother to read your posts word for word and it's a waist of time trying to explain plain english.
 
Darn it, Zigga!
Don't you get it? If you have an opinion that differs from anyone else and you are to the left of them than they are the conservative and your aren't a moderate, you're a liberal (and may be strung up). The thing is, there's only one conservative in the world at any one point in time.
Every one else is liberal. Lets not speak of moderates. Moderates are just liberals that don't want to seem as evil as Hilary Clinton, Ted Kenedy or John Kerry.
 
Can I ask a stupid question.

What's wrong with Hillary?

I must be totally checked out or mis everything that she does because I dont have an opinion of her one way or another. I do think she should have kicked Bill in the balls and dumped his butt, but that's another subject.

i'm serious, can someone list the reasons to be against her?

Like I said, I have not formed an opinion of her but all I hear is how bad she is. Really, I would like some facts so that I can form my own opinion of her. . . What makes her so evil?

Thanks,
 
OK in my opinion the reason you may not have an opinion on her is cause she will not be out spoken on the issues. She dodges the big questions.
What I do not like about her was her trying to shove scocilised medicine down our throats when she was first lady. The other thing was her stance on children's issues. She was an oponent of corpal punnishment ie spanking and believed it to be child abuse and she felt that kids should be able to sue their parents of these types of issues ect.
One of her most famous quotes was The common good comes before the private good. And she is one of those that believes it takes a village and not a family to raise a child. That kind of crap.
Her on Gun Control according to ontheissues.org
* Keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them. (Sep 2000)
* Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs. (Sep 2000)
* License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000)
* Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999)
* Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999)
* Don?t water down sensible gun control legislation. (Jul 1999)
* Lock up guns; store ammo separately. (Jun 1999)
* Ban kids? unsupervised access to guns. (Jun 1999)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
* Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)

She is a strong supporter of Gay marrage and abortion

She is married to Bill
 
T,

Apparently most of these folks on this site forgot Hillary's first two terms in office. Maybe they think she'll be on the r@g if she gets elected again.

Also, don't you remember when she took your guns away last time? Luckily AWOL and the NRA fought so hard for us to get them back.
 
Hum, she's sounds like a republican, or is it that the republicans are once again searching for a real foundation. There's no republican in the white house, those guys are neocons that are, for most of us, outside the mainstream repbublican pholosophy.

And what heck is the republican party doing in California? I thought that was a Regan state - they now have a global warming legislation, new sex offender laws, (more laws, that's just what every repbuplican wants) child care health legislation - what gives?

Looks like the republicans cant make it on their own platform so they are stealing traditionally democratic issues.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-22-06 AT 08:49AM (MST)[p]


I think we can eliminate the entire gun control issue. No matter who ends up the "leader" of this country. I think we would sooner start a war with another country than we would give up our gun ownership. . . The entire gun ownership argument is a red harring in my view. Sure I'm a member of the NRA and I want me guns, but I'm not affraid of Hillary takeing them away, it just wont happen.

Now, there may be reasons to have gun control in major urban areas and cities. I dont know much about that culture having only live two years in a major city (WA DC) but from what I can tell, guns are really not accepted in cities like new york and DC. As per the rest of the nation, I think, like they say, you'll have to pull my gun from my dead hands.

So, taking away the gun issue, there's social programs left.

I happen to agree that we need a better education system and we need a better health care/drug program. I'm not on board with her, but I still dont see what's so alarming about her. Is it that she speaks her mind or is it that she's a woman? I mean, no matter what democrat wins the white house in 08, they will have the same platform. . . so, it's just a face. . .

I dont care if gays mary, it's none of my business what they do for sexual pleasure - in fact, I dont even want to know about it.

I think that woman should be allowed control over their bodies, I do not belive a life starts at conception, it never has and it never will. I dont want people having kids that cant take care of them, if they do, those kids often end up un cared for, and a much larger responsiblity for tax payers.

And one more thing - gay marrage and abortion are religious issues, not republican or democratic issues so it should make no difference exepting that people like GB abuse the office and make his personal religious platform a policital agenda - shame on him.
 
"I dont care if gays mary, it's none of my business what they do for sexual pleasure - in fact, I dont even want to know about it."

Well if we let the gays degrade traditional family values even more by letting them marry then get ready for every other wacko group to want to marry. Like the Poligamist, animal lovers and every other perverted life form.

I am with you though on one thing. That is I could care less what they do in the closet I just don't want to know about it.

"I dont want people having kids that cant take care of them, if they do, those kids often end up un cared for, and a much larger responsiblity for tax payers."

If I had to gues I would say you do not have kids although I could be wrong. Children are more than just a burden to the tax payer. They are precious angels that need our protection. Asigning a dollar value to human life is unaceptable behavior in my humble opinion.

"I do not belive a life starts at conception, it never has and it never will."

You may not "T" but a lot of people do. Never say never my friend.

Look when Billery was in the whitehouse she was as far left as one could get. She is trying to portray herself as a moderate for her run up to the Presidency.
 
202,
Think about it, the republicans don't want any abortion so every unwanted kid is born right? then any social programs that might pay to raise and make life better for that kid they cut out and scream like mashed cats if they need any funding. you can't have it both ways.
As for gays I wish there were more of them, there will never be enough hot women for everyone to have one so who needs the competition? and how many gays are putting in agaist me in the LE draws? I'll bet not many, again who needs the competition. I guess there might be a few gay hunters out there, I can't picture what a gay camp might look like but I bet you could pick it out.
 
LOL - that's funny chit. . . .



Now as per 202,

"If I had to gues I would say you do not have kids although I could be wrong."

Guessed wrong my friend, I've got two awesome kids, and you know what, I would not take a million bucks of either of them, but I would not give a dime for another one. . . .

Howecome your so passionate about little kids but dont want to spend any of YOUR money to take care of the one's that dont make it in this big cruel world?
 
And what heck is the republican party doing in California? I thought that was a Regan state - they now have a global warming legislation, new sex offender laws, (more laws, that's just what every repbuplican wants) child care health legislation - what gives?

amigo calif is dem and very liberal,,,
 
"Howecome your so passionate about little kids but dont want to spend any of YOUR money to take care of the one's that dont make it in this big cruel world?"

Where in the H did that come from? You lost me.

I typically give my time with Big Brothers and Big Sisters. The inner city kids in my town don't know what to think the first time I take them hunting or fishing or camping. I feel my time is worth more than my money.

I also volunteer for a local program here where we are taking sons and daughters of fallen soldiers hunting.

I also take disadvatage kids water skiing a couple of times durring the summer. We make a weekend of it. It is a blast.

Just last week I bought a used car for a single mom. That was giving my money but in a useful way that I have control over.

I think I am doing my part. I know I could do more. But I gotta spend some time with my children before they are grown and gone.

Oh yea also was part of a group that built an inner city park. Did all my work grattis. I almost forgot that one. I was quite proud of it.

Two years ago I coordinated an all volunteer group to build a platform and errect an antique sign for Boysville.

Enough of that. You are right I dont give enough of my money.

I do believe that someone must speak and protect the unborn. It is just a travesty.

Oh and I would give a dime for one more!!
 
uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no kidding, I was pointing out that the words dont mean much, a republican is not a republican is not a republican, they all are chameleons. . . In any event, the current republican governor is changing his staunch republican attitude since he got in office. All the policies I listed were developed by the current republican governor. . .

Would you call Ronald Regan, former governor of cali and US president a liberal? Not me. . . .
 

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