November 2023 Rac packets and proposals.

[Mallardsx2]

My brother, who doesnt care to hunt anymore now has 12 general s

season points. So, likewise, when things get "good", I should be able to get several of us some tags if the lifetimers dont take them all!

Are the lifetimes in a separate drawing? Seems to me like they have set-aside tags? Or do they get first dibs every single year?

 

[SureShot]

If these experimental units are a success (more mature bucks and more people applying for them because they're popular), I hope the state expands the program and offers a variety of units with different rules in each region. Then, let people apply for what they want. For the opportunity guys, there will be a unit that you can hunt almost every year, but the buck:doe ratio will probably be low and there won't be many mature bucks. For the guys that want to chase big bucks (with probably lower success rates), they can go for the limited technology units. And so on. There should be something to make everybody happy.

 

[MrShane]

I like that also.

We would all be able to hunt every year instead of every two-three years!

 

[Vanilla]

If these experimental units are a success (more mature bucks and more people applying for them because they're popular), I hope the state expands the program and offers a variety of units with different rules in each region. Then, let people apply for what they want. For the opportunity guys, there will be a unit that you can hunt almost every year, but the buck:doe ratio will probably be low and there won't be many mature bucks. For the guys that want to chase big bucks (with probably lower success rates), they can go for the limited technology units. And so on. There should be something to make everybody happy.

Don’t we already have that?

Isn’t that what general season vs limited entry is for?

Damn the trophy guys will never quit!

 

[slamdunk]

@Simpleton
I do not take offense to anything you've stated and I respect your stance, opinions and insight.

To be even more clear and not attempting to throw the DNR under a bus, but the Tech Committee didn't put the survey together, their people did.
We were asked a few questions and were also shown the survey for input before it went out, but it was not the Committee's survey.

Even though there may have been a question such as you presented missed, I was actually impressed on how deep and critical they took it.

 

[elkassassin]

That F'N SmokePole Success Rate Getting Close To Long Rangers Success Rate Musta Touched A F'N Nerve?

 

[quest]

What is considered long range and how do they know who’s taking animals at that distance? How did they come up with success rate for long range?

 

[elkassassin]

I'm Talkin Long Rangers & SmokePolers!

Rifle Hunters & Muzz Hunters!

What is considered long range and how do they know who’s taking animals at that distance? How did they come up with success rate for long range?

 

[SureShot]

Don’t we already have that?

Isn’t that what general season vs limited entry is for?

Damn the trophy guys will never quit!

No, we don't. The current LE hunts don't have any restrictions and the success rates are very high, so they can't give very many tags. With these new varieties, a lot more people will be able to move through the system while keeping quality high. Just the success rates will go down. There are a whole bunch of us that like to see mature bucks when we go hunting and we don't really care if we don't fill our tags as long as we're seeing them and have a chance.

What do you care as long as some of the units are managed for opportunity and you get to hunt every year on them if you want?

 

[elkassassin]

We Need 2 Or 3 PISCUTTER Units As Well!

If Niller Wants To Hunt A PISSCUTTER Unit On His LL Let Him Do It!

But When Them 3 Units Are POUNDED Out Don't Let Them Come A Runnin To Another Unit They Didn't Like Until It Started Producing Decent Bucks!

 

[slamdunk]

We Need 2 Or 3 PISCUTTER Units As Well!

If Niller Wants To Hunt A PISSCUTTER Unit On His LL Let Him Do It!

But When Them 3 Units Are POUNDED Out Don't Let Them Come A Runnin To Another Unit They Didn't Like Until It Started Producing Decent Bucks!

How will they get pounded out with stiff restrictions and limited permits?

Can you imagine the quality of bucks on the Henry's and Books had they required restricted weapons on those units after they reopened them?

Oh wait......we didn't have 100 yard bows and 500 yard muzzies back then.

 

[middlefork]

Oh wait......we didn't have 100 yard bows and 500 yard muzzies back then.

Curious how many Henries tags needed 100 yard bows and 500 muzzies to seal the deal? I understand the pressure to fill that OIL tag but who's fault is that?

Turn the Henries into a HAMS hunt that will fix everything. Actually why not turn every premium unit into a hams hunt. Maybe that will reduce demand for tags.

 

[elkassassin]

PISSCUTTER UNITS Usually Don't Have Many Restrictions On Them!

When The PISSCUTTER POUNDERS Pound Them Units Out They'll Want Their Piece Of The Pie On The Better Units You're Proposing!

I Think You Misunderstood What I Was Saying?

How will they get pounded out with stiff restrictions and limited permits?

Can you imagine the quality of bucks on the Henry's and Books had they required restricted weapons on those units after they reopened them?

Oh wait......we didn't have 100 yard bows and 500 yard muzzies back then.

 

[slamdunk]

PISSCUTTER UNITS Usually Don't Have Many Restrictions On Them!

When The PISSCUTTER POUNDERS Pound Them Units Out They'll Want Their Piece Of The Pie On The Better Units You're Proposing!

I Think You Misunderstood What I Was Saying?

I must have, I'm getting old ?

 

[slamdunk]

Curious how many Henries tags needed 100 yard bows and 500 muzzies to seal the deal? I understand the pressure to fill that OIL tag but who's fault is that?

Turn the Henries into a HAMS hunt that will fix everything. Actually why not turn every premium unit into a hams hunt. Maybe that will reduce demand for tags.

Exactly what I was implying to @elkassassin.
Make these premiums into HAMS and watch the quality explode.

Wait.....that'll mean that technology WOULD have an effect ?

 

[middlefork]

Exactly what I was implying to @elkassassin.
Make these premiums into HAMS and watch the quality explode.

Wait.....that'll mean that technology WOULD have an effect ?

Yes it would. How about quantity?

 

[slamdunk]

Yes it would. How about quantity?

Quantity of bucks goes up......need lot's of does to match.

This State manages for buck to doe ratios, we need to switch that to doe to buck ratios ?

 

[elkassassin]

I've Been Spittin Vinegar For Years!

But Nobody Listened!

They Are Starting To Listen Now!

Or Maybe They Just Realized How PISS POOR The Deer Hunting/Herd In DRATville Has Became?

 

[elkassassin]

That BS BUCK TO DOE MANAGEMENT Is The Poorest F'N Management Ever Dreampt Up!

Quantity of bucks goes up......need lot's of does to match.

This State manages for buck to doe ratios, we need to switch that to doe to buck ratios ?

 

[middlefork]

So what's the magic metric? Sorry I get confused.

 

[JakeH]

Exactly what I was implying to @elkassassin.
Make these premiums into HAMS and watch the quality explode.

Wait.....that'll mean that technology WOULD have an effect ?

No that would imply rifles have an effect. That's the main tool you would be removing from the equation.

Tell you what, how bout you make it archery only with 6 separate 2 week seasons from mid Aug to mid November and really move some people through the point system. And watch the buck population and quality grow.

 

[slamdunk]

No that would imply rifles have an effect. That's the main tool you would be removing from the equation.

Tell you what, how bout you make it archery only with 6 separate 2 week seasons from mid Aug to mid November and really move some people through the point system. And watch the buck population and quality grow.

Yes, that's sort of what I was implying because of the primitive weapon only, it means rifle takes it's toll......but we already know that due to success rates.
We are on the same page, just different verbally.

 

[Vanilla]

We Need 2 Or 3 PISCUTTER Units As Well!

If Niller Wants To Hunt A PISSCUTTER Unit On His LL Let Him Do It!

But When Them 3 Units Are POUNDED Out Don't Let Them Come A Runnin To Another Unit They Didn't Like Until It Started Producing Decent Bucks!

I love this line of argument. We already have 10 units in the state managed for mature bucks. But it isn’t enough. We have keep TAKING from the public to satiate the egos of trophy hunters that can’t find big bucks unless they are spoon fed big bucks. So now we need to take 20 more units and manage them for big bucks like LE and leave 3 for people that just want to go hunt. And then we’re told “don’t come crying for more when your management strategy doesn’t work” when that same person is crying for more because his preferred management strategy isn’t working!!!

You simply can’t make this crap up. For you guys that just want to see big bucks and don’t care about hunting them, just go drive around the Henry or Pauns units. You’ll see big bucks and satisfy that urge. Or if you want a tag, get in line!

Quit trying to take away from everyone else to satisfy your own greed.

 

[elkassassin]

Pay Attention!

We Are NOT Taking!

We Are GIVING!

You Love & Will Still Love PUMPKIN Central!

Hunt It/Them Until Deer Are Extinct!

But Don't Come A BAWLING!

I love this line of argument. We already have 10 units in the state managed for mature bucks. But it isn’t enough. We have keep TAKING from the public to satiate the egos of trophy hunters that can’t find big bucks unless they are spoon fed big bucks. So now we need to take 20 more units and manage them for big bucks like LE and leave 3 for people that just want to go hunt. And then we’re told “don’t come crying for more when your management strategy doesn’t work” when that same person is crying for more because his preferred management strategy isn’t working!!!

You simply can’t make this crap up. For you guys that just want to see big bucks and don’t care about hunting them, just go drive around the Henry or Pauns units. You’ll see big bucks and satisfy that urge. Or if you want a tag, get in line!

Quit trying to take away from everyone else to satisfy your own greed.

 

[Bikes]

Did you watch the video? Or read the proposed rule?

I live and hunt in the Boulder unit where no scopes will be allowed and back to stick bows and no inlines.

 

[Vanilla]

I live and hunt in the Boulder unit where no scopes will be allowed and back to stick bows and no inlines.

Awesome. Did you watch the video and read the rule change?

 

[quest]

The 4 point rule on Pine Valley is to long... 4 years. It needs to be rotated after 2 years. 2 Years 4 points only the back to any legal buck for 1 year then back to 4 points only for 1 year. Gather all the info and see where were at. Plus they can regulate the buck to doe ratio better.

 

[elkassassin]

There Will Never Ever Be A Plan That Satisfies 1/1000000000 Of The DRATS!

 

[quest]

I guess that means all of us ?

 

[Robiland]

Are the lifetimes in a separate drawing? Seems to me like they have set-aside tags? Or do they get first dibs every single year?

They literally get 1st choice on everything. They are guaranteed a tag every year of their choice.

 

[hornsrus]

Could Be A whole Bunch Of People Learning How to Shoot/Hunt Again!

I think the scope issue is bigger than some people think. For me, I can't shoot open sights. With my glasses off I can see the sights, but can't see the animal. With them on I can see the animal, but no sights. I just can't shoot safely with open sights. I know there are a lot of folks in the same boat. We don't do it for an advantage, but just to participate.

 

[Robiland]

I think the scope issue is bigger than some people think. For me, I can't shoot open sights. With my glasses off I can see the sights, but can't see the animal. With them on I can see the animal, but no sights. I just can't shoot safely with open sights. I know there are a lot of folks in the same boat. We don't do it for an advantage, but just to participate.

I dont mean this to be a giant Richard, or A-hole. Its honesty. And I know I will get to this point sooner rather than later since I am waiting to get a hip replacement. I was supposed to do it this summer, but I keep holding off. BUT....... There is a point when we have to change what we like to do (hunt muzzy) to what we have to do to participate (hunt with a rifle/scope).

I have said for the last few years that I think they should shut down roads during the hunt to all motor (gas/electric) vehicles since access is so easy now with roads everywhere. And make people hike in to those places. Well, that is coming around to bite me in the butt, but I still think that way. Just me though.

 

[deadibob]

The proof is in the pudding. Do you really expect a major change in the success rates? I don't.
And will you believe them when they come out?
I never did see a good way to improve the population counts from the experts on here. I suppose that is next.

I think if the DWR commits to fully study these units with accurate and detailed data it could be eye opening. There must be a change in how they do herd counts, we all know the methods used aren’t precise in the least.

Being able to compare different management techniques simultaneously has never been done as far as I know and it can’t hurt compared to what is happening now. Each unit has its own particular issues and variables so that will need to be taken into account. If they half-azz it there won’t be any accurate conclusions.

I for one am sick of waiting half my life waiting for the wildlife managers to figure things out and getting nowhere in all that time.

 

[elkfromabove]

There Will Never Ever Be A Plan That Satisfies 1/1000000000 Of The DRATS!

And there will NEVER EVER be a plan that satisfies you, either!

 

[ELKOHOLIC]

I'm so glad they aren't trying this on my home turf. This should better the odds of me drawing here, so I'm all for it. I can tell you what will happen on the APR units, and that's exactly the opposite of what people are thinking.

With no APR, most people will shoot a buck that's 3-point or less and go home. On 4-point or better APR, people are forced to stay and hunt for bigger bucks, resulting in more 4-points being killed, leaving fewer to become really big bucks.

Additionally, the gene pool WILL be diluted, meaning there will be old bucks that are 3-point or less and they will always be so. They will be protected and left to do the breeding, making more genetically weak animals.

But go for it. I never hunt there so what do I care?

That is just crazy talk! People are forced to shoot 4 points? lol. I promise the 3 points won't be safe either.

 

[quest]

Anyone keeping score on RAC meeting for or against scopes on muzzleloader?

 

[Deerlove]

Anyone keeping score on RAC meeting for or against scopes on muzzleloader?

I think four out of five or three out of four voted against them

 

[Deerlove]

There is not been much discussion on whether if there are banned if they will let us have one power or red dot?

 

[quest]

So when will the final vote take place by the DWR?

 

[Vanilla]

So when will the final vote take place by the DWR?

RAC, Board meeting agendas, materials & minutes

Action items on the agenda are voted on by the RACs and the Board. Wildlife Board meetings usually occur a few weeks after the Northern, Central, Northeastern, Southeastern and Southern RAC meetings.

wildlife.utah.gov

November 28. You can also access videos and comments to RACs on that link as well.

 

[quest]

Hey thanks

 

[elkantlers]

I have said for the last few years that I think they should shut down roads during the hunt to all motor (gas/electric) vehicles since access is so easy now with roads everywhere. And make people hike in to those places. Well, that is coming around to bite me in the butt, but I still think that way. Just me though.

Not all traffic is hunting related. I know several people that don't hunt but like to ride around in the mountains in the fall just to sight see. Multi use is a good thing.

 

[elkantlers]

Anyone keeping score on RAC meeting for or against scopes on muzzleloader?

The Central and Northeastern RAC's Voted to reject the Divisions Proposal to remove scopes. The other three vote to Accept.

 

[quest]

Bummer

 

[Robiland]

Not all traffic is hunting related. I know several people that don't hunt but like to ride around in the mountains in the fall just to sight see. Multi use is a good thing.

In Arizona, they have areas completely shut down from July 1 to Dec 1 as a "QUIET ZONE". No motor vehicles to give the animals a "safe zone" of road hunters. I like the idea. It was nice to be able to walk into some of these areas and be able to sit and listen without a SxS flying down the road.

 

[deadibob]

Curious how many Henries tags needed 100 yard bows and 500 muzzies to seal the deal? I understand the pressure to fill that OIL tag but who's fault is that?

Turn the Henries into a HAMS hunt that will fix everything. Actually why not turn every premium unit into a hams hunt. Maybe that will reduce demand for tags.

Let’s turn the entire state into a HAMS hunt