OR Applications

[LoveBigRacks]

Just stopped into Bi-Mart today to get hunting applications in for my son and I this year. He turns 13 in March so this will be his second year hunting in OR and the only successful draw we had last year was his spring bear tag. I opted not to put him in for Sheep or Goat tags this year but still dropped $96 just for applications! The Juvenile SportsPac is a nice addition this year and sure saved me some money as far as his license and tags go but dropping a hundo just to get our name in the various hats for tags in nuts! It'd be different if ODFW was doing a better job of managing our deer and elk herds, or managing the predator population at all. Sure hope we can pull a tag or two in the drawing but I'm going to have to start saving now to pay for tags.... Best of luck to you guys with your apps / tags.

Also, for those of you with young hunters make sure you check out the other western states youth programs. AZ has a great deal, less than $40 to start building elk points and the youth price is good until their 20 yrs old. Some other states also have great youth options too.

LBR

 

[nvmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-10 AT 10:08AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-10 AT 08:03?AM (MST)

Being a nonresident I am disappointed that OR has raised fees so much and still kept the NR quotas so low. Their prices are now in line with other NR fees around the west but their hunting opportunities for NR's are almost at the bottom of the list with 3% and 5% tag allocations.
I know, I know, if you don't like it don't apply. Don't bash me but let's discuss.
I still feel right is right. If other states had full and equal reciprocity laws, Oregon residents would be limited to 3% or 5% of the NR tags in the other state. If you as an OR resident are drawn after the 3-5% quota is reached, the computer would say, so sorry no tag for you.
Sound reasonable?

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[tmbr_hntr]

nvmuley

Oregon allows NRs to buy an over the counter tag(elk and deer) and go hunt every year. 100% guranteed tag every single year. Does WY, NV, NM, AZ, MT etc...? So if other states had full and equal reciprocity laws then I could go buy an OTC tag in those states every year correct? Your argument does not hold water.

As a resident I am glad to see the increases and more than happy to pay it.

 

[nvmuley]

Good point.
Most western states (Nevada included) do not have any over the counter tags for deer, elk or antelope for anyone, resident or non-resident.
Just OTC tags those pesky lions
I was dealing with draw tags and non-resident quotas.
I also know that many resident hunters in all states do not like non-resident hunters. That's just the way it is.


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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[whtelk]

>nvmuley
>
>Oregon allows NRs to buy an
>over the counter tag(elk and
>deer) and go hunt every
>year. 100% guranteed tag every
>single year. Does WY,
>NV, NM, AZ, MT etc...?
>So if other states had
>full and equal reciprocity laws
>then I could go buy
>an OTC tag in those
>states every year correct? Your
>argument does not hold water.
>
>
>As a resident I am glad
>to see the increases and
>more than happy to pay
>it.


Very good point. I agree 100%

 

[nvmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-10 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]Resident deer tags went up $7.50. Non resident tags $110.50.
Resident elk tags went up $7.50. Non resident tags $138.50.

I understand that each state has different degrees of hunter opportunity. Some land is fertile and some not so fertile. Comparing OTC tags and draw quotas is apples and oranges.


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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[Dave32g]

i do not like to see the prices go up. its not about the money that i have to pay. its about the money that oregon businesses will not make due to the fish and games greed. there are many non res that will choose to spend there money some where else this year due to the price hike. i dont think that hunting in OR is as good as some other states that that cost less. it will hurt small local economy more then it will benefit the F&G or the greedy resident that does not want to share public ground with another sportsman.



thats just the way i see it.

 

[WapitiBob]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-10 AT 10:56AM (MST)[p]If we got rid of the OTC tags like nearly every western state there might be some animals to hunt. We're an Opportunity State and with it comes a "sustained yield" approach to herd numbers.

The bigger problem is predator control and how this states Initiative Petition system works. The Game Dept. simply doesn't have the authority to properly manage predators.

Over the last cpl decades, Oregon has become Kalifornia's Enviro little brother. The influx of people and their attitudes has brought an ambivalence to hunting, and an outright distaste for killing animals with the help of dogs.
Having lived here all my life and seen the changes in attitude, I'm afraid we'll never go back to a state that embraces hunting as a viable outdoor recreation activity.

Fly Fishing on the other hand, is readily encouraged, provided you and your dog subscribe to "catch and release" principals.

Personally, I think the idea that ODFW is "greedy" is misguided. It's not like they have a multi million dollar surplus every year. They have to create a 2 year budget, then figure out how to raise the money. It doesn't help matters when the Legislature robs their piggy bank either.
Another thing to consider is that Oregon, as a coastal state, in addition to all our lakes, streams, and rivers, has a huge fisheries opportunity to manage.

 

[tmbr_hntr]

No it's not comparing apples and oranges. Almost all units that are draw for rifle can be hunted with an OTC archery tag. The entire west side of the state which some would argue is better in a lot of ways is OTC. Many many of the best animals taken every year are taken with OTC tags. I'm a resident and I will never put in for one of the "hard to draw" units. That is just wasting your money in Oregon. The quality does not justify the time to wait.

I also think that rather than the % of tags that go to NRs you should also look at the total # of tags. Meaning this if state A gives NRs 10% of the tags but there are only 1000 tags then the total NR tags are only 100, but if state B gives 3% and there are 10,000 tags then the NRs get 300 tags. So is state A better than state B? I'm just throwing numbers out, but I do know we have a lot more total tags than some other states.

BTW, if I were a NR I would not apply in OR and I apply in a lot of states. I have no problem with good respectful NR hunters. Hunters are hunters and I am a NR in all other states than OR. I greet all hunters with a smile and a hello until they dump their garbage or drive closed roads. Then they get a BIG FROWN and a ticket whether they are NR or resident. BUT only OR residents should really have a say in OR policy just like I don't have a say in the fish and game policies of another state. If I did I would double the NR tags in Utah

 

[nvmuley]

I respect and understand what you have said. You have developed work-a-rounds to increase your opportunities. I hunt the different states for the same reasons you have explained. But I still think you are clouding the discussion with all these other issues of OTC tags, opportunity and then throwing bowhunting into the mix.

If you stay just with the single issue of quotas vs license/ tag costs on the hard to draw units, Oregon is not very fair to NR hunters at 3-5% quotas. Most states give at least 10%, some shoot for 20% or more.

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[440sixpack]

Honestly guys I'm an Oregon native and I'm ashamed of the shuck and jive game we play with the non res. all but the very hardest to draw hunts are average at best, often they suck. I hunt out of state more than I do in Oregon and if they gave me a max of 3% of the tags which most of aren't worth a crap anyway then doubled the price I'd quit.

as I've said before if I were you and I had a good number of points I'd burn them on the best hunt you can get then write ODFW a letter and tell them to shove it.

now the leaches are even going to charge me to register for my landowner tags, I don't know if ODFW is more funny or pathetic.

 

[Jazz]

I have to agree with NVMuley. I live in Oregon and hunt every western state except Arizona so far. I would not be happy if the %'s were as low as Oregon. I agree that they should all just be the same, that would be fair for everyone. By the way for me the hardest place to find a decent hunt is right here, the deer popluations are horrible. Hope we allow dogs to chase cats again soon.

Jazz

 

[lostinOregon]

Oregon does allow the NR to buy over the counter every year on some pretty poor hunts. The facts are that Oregon hunting has gone so far down hill it wouldn't matter how cheap or expensive the hunts are, over the counter or controlled, non-resident's and resident's are going to stop playing the game soon.

I really didn't get it until I started hunting out of state. The quality of Oregon hunts are not on par with any of the states that were mentioned that charge NR's a license fee to apply. It is supply and demand, if you have good hunting you can raise the prices and people will still pay. If a hunter has a bad experience and prices are raised they will stop playing, look at Idaho, they raised the prices last year and had a bunch of tags to look at that were not sold.

If you are happy that the cost went up I hope it is because you are hoping that the extra money will translate into better management for any hunter, no matter what state he lives in.

Oregon will soon see how the price increase will do the exact opposite of what they were trying to achieve with all of their juvenile hunts, increase hunter participation.

I will be out of state this year as usual, and will see the big game that I am supposed to be hunting.

Rich

 

[unclewalty]

WE ALL EXPECT INFLATION TO DEMAND THAT AN INCREASE IN FEES ARE NECESSARY. BUT THIS INCREASE IN FEES IS RIDICULOS! I HAVE BEEN CHASING THE POINTS IN A COUPLE OF STATES FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS. OREGON HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE STATE THAT I HAVE REGRETTED EVER STARTING. BUT I HAVE HUNG IN THERE HOPING THAT SOMEDAY IT WOULD BE WORTH IT AND MAY HAVE STAYED IN THER RUNNING FOR A FEW MORE YEARS JUST FIGURING MY APP FEES WERE HELPING WITH COSTS IN MANAGING THE FISH AND GAME THERE BUT THIS INCREASE MAKES IT EASY TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO NOW.
GET THE L OUT OF OREGON'S POINTS CHASE!
THAT MAY BE THE RESPONSE THAT SOME WERE HOPING FOR. BUT THOSE OF US THAT HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTING TO THE KITTY WILL BE SENDING OUR MONIES TO STATES NOT JUST WITH HUNTING "OPPORTUNITIES" BUT WITH GOOD QUALITY HUNTS!
I JUST TOLD MY BROTHERINLAW ABOUT THE INCREASES AND HE A LOYAL OREGON HUNTER FOR MANY YEARS THE WONDERFUL "OTC TAGS" AND HE WAS FIT TO BE TIED AND SWORE THAT OREGON WILL NOT GET ANOTHER CENT FROM HIM AND HIS HUNTING PARTY. HE HAS PLANS TO HUNT ANOTHER STATE WITH CHEAPER TAGS AND HIGH PERCENTAGE OF SUCCESS WITH HIS FATHER IN LAW.
I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO TAKING A YEAR AND HUNTING SOME OF OREGONS BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY AND HOPING TO FIND AN ELUSIVE BULL AND BUCK BUT BETWEEN THE PREDATOR "WOLVES" AND CALI STYLE MANAGEMENT LEAVES ME WITH NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO SELL MY TEN YEARS OF WASTED POINTS TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER!

AND BEFORE ANYBODY GETS THEIR PANTIES IN A WAD I KNOW YOU CAN'T SELL YOUR POINTS. ITS A JOKE OK, LOL

ANYWAY LOOK FORWARD TO OTHERS FEELINGS ON THIS. SERIOUSLY I THINK IT IS A BIG MISTAKE. OREGON'S ECONOMY FROM THIS WILL GO DOWN NOT UP. LIBERALS ALWAYS THINK IF YOU INCREASE FEES "TAXES" THAT THEY WILL GAIN INCOME BUT THE OPPOSITE ALWAYS HAPPENS.
SEE YOU IN IDAHO,COLORADO,UTAH,WYOMING, MONTANA,NEW MEXICO,NEVEDA, AND ARIZONA.

 

[JB148]

As a life long Oregon resident I have no problem with the fee increase. NR or not I think treatment of the NR hunters isn't fair, and everyone knows life isn't fair. The best hunts I have ever had have all come from out of state draw DYI hunts. Nevada is where I have had 2 awesome hunts, Idaho, Wyoming, Kansas, and California.

Oregon needs to adopt the Nevada predatory control system for keeping the dogs and cat populations in check.

I still have an old t-shirt made in Gold Beach after ODF&W passed some poor fish legislation in the 1980's. My T-shirt reads:

ODF&W: DEPARTMENT OF FAILURE AND WASTE.

 

[nvmuley]

JB148, You are entitled to your opinion. As I am of mine. This is why I think a fairness quota would help help with the "take or leave it" attitude. As it will be up to Oregon residents to lobby to make things more equal when it comes to quota hunt tag allocations.

.........You state that two of your best hunts have been in Nevada. Well, Nevada gives 20% of it's tags to non-residents. How would you feel if Nevada had a fairness quota and your tag number was drawn in the 7% number range and instead of a great deer tag you got a letter saying:
....... "Congratulations, you were drawn a great buck tag but it was over the 5% quota number your state gives to NR so you will not be issued the tag. We moved down the list and gave it to a CO non-resident. Thank you for your contribution to Nevada wildlfie management."

think about it

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[goldhunter]

Remember the % is further diluted because half the tags are given to outfitters. The do it yourself hunter has no chance at these tags. You need money to get these tags.

 

[JB148]

NVmuley,
I am in agreement with you,I just didn't write it clearly. I think the Oregon system needs to be overhauled and believe it isn't fair to you. I am partial to you in Nevada because since 2001 I have pulled some great tags in Nevada.

Oregon needs to model itself after the Nevada system which I believe is the the best state system.Though in adopting that system Oregon has to change predator control as well as its principal regarding "more hunt opportunity" vers "no trophy hunt management" to put it simply. It is my beleif Oregon will have to reduce numbers of tags, limit the units for OTC hunts and open cougar and bear hunting year round with unlimited tags. I don't believe there should be limits on spring bear tags either. IMHO JB

 

[nvmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-26-10 AT 11:39AM (MST)[p]Nice post JB. You hit on some good points. I think all us hunters get frustrated with the dwindling opportunities. Particularly us older guys near 60 because we know what it was like in the 70's and 80's.
I made a post in the General Hunting section about the article in Muley Crazy and the Kaibab deer herd's history. It is a good read and deals with the past scientific corruption. Much like we are seeing with man made global warning "fake" papers today. The liberals that hate capitalism, guns and hunting have been at the fakery a long time.
It sure seems to me with all the high predator populations and the dwindling deer herds, we are returning to the pre-settlement times here in the US as far as deer numbers. The low deer numbers when early explorers came through was kinda shocking. predators had gotten the upper hand. Much like street gangs would do if we had no police. Here in NV we have about half the deer we had in 1988.

I answered you PM also, thanks.
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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[unclewalty]

HEY NVMULEY HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT PRESETTLEMENT HERD NUMBERS WERE LOWER THAN NOW?

 

[nvmuley]

unclewalty, It is talked about in the Muley Crazy article and came from multiple historical journals and other sources.

I am not quite old enough to say first hand



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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[JB148]

Regarding the Kaibab, back in the 40's and 50's they killed every song dog, bobcat, and cougar in,near, and around the Kaibab and the Stripe. The deer population exploded and they had a couple of significant winter die off's.Eventually the population leveled out and produced the herd of the 60's to 80's which held monsterous bucks. It has been declining, but still producting monster deer. JB

 

[LoveBigRacks]

Just my two cents...as a native Oregonian. I agree OR doesn't really offer non-res hunters a fair shake when compared to other Western states. The tag numbers are what they are and NR's know it going it but the allocation sucks and I'd be hard pressed to find a reason to apply for OR if I were a NR. The allocation sucks but then taking most of the great tags for Guides every other year really puts the NR at a huge disadvantage.

To my original point in this post, I wouldn't be as pissed off about the price increases (Res & Non-Res) if I felt that ODFW was using those funds in a constructive way, and that our deer / elk herds were being managed properly. I don't have all the answers, admittedly, but you really can't argue with the fact that our herds are on a big decline and the predators are increasingly rapidly. Something needs to be done about the cats, and shortly the wolves. I know voters passed the no dogs for cats law but ODFW has legal methods of managing the cat popluation much more effectively. I'm concerned about how this additional revenue is being spent.

Does anyone else notice how ODFW seems to be following in the footsteps of Idaho? Makes you wonder if there's a relationship between those two department heads and if one is following in the footsteps of the other. We've seen what's happend in ID and it sure feels like there are an unusually high number of similarities.

LBR

 

[JB148]

LBR,
You are correct in your corelation between the directors.If you go to the Idaho forum you will see the same concerns as many Oregon folks. That being said,with out some backing by the legislature to change, ODF&W will continue down the same path for the almighty dollar period. Meaning hunt opportunity will supercede everything else, no cut in tag numbers and the such, which is what we need. JB

 

[khensley]

ODFW is funded by license and tag revenue. Any cut in that revenue would result in less service (whether we get a decent level of service now is up for debate). So, it's a tough spot to be in. Cut tags tremendously, lay off your biologists and field folks who are doing the best they can, and take steps backward in what they have managed to do. ODFW has said many times, their mission is to manage big game for opportunity, period. The "trophy" units in Oregon are a complete accident, nothing more. Until ODFW has their mission changed, either by a powerful Director, or an act of Legislature, things will remain this way. We really, really don't want the Legislature monkeying with our game animals, but that's where we are headed.

And, would an across-the-board 50% tag cut, on the east side of the state, do a darn bit of good? Look at the harvest numbers, and compare that to estimates of what the predators are taking.

Unless we immediately and viciously attack the predator problem, nothing else is going to fix our east-side herds. Many like to point their fingers at cattle grazing as a big issue....there's less cattle on an awful lot of the country than there were in the glory days, and they are better managed. Others like to point to the loss of wintering ground, but this doesn't explain the drop in those units that have very little human influence.

Eventually, things will even out. Nature is cyclic; we'll end up with a very small percentage of big game left, then the predators will begin to die out. Then, the big game will come back, followed by the predators again. What we have to remember is that WE are the apex predator, and WE should be keeping the other predators in check.

My .02

kh

 

[nvmuley]

Reading these posts leads me to believe that most hunters have it figured out when it comes to predators. We can talk and discuss things but actually getting changes made is where the politics really enters into the picture.
Bottomline for me is we have a lot of people that do not hunt at all and worship predators. These people have far more influence on game departments than I think they should have. I think they actually scare game departments into not doing what should be done. It seems just the thought of lawsuits stops much predator control. And of course we have laws like not using hounds to hunt lions which is totally ridiculous.
A final thought on predators numbers naturally cycling and having a big die off and then game coming back. I am not sure this occurs to any large extent. I had heard some biologists say that would happen here in NV when the lion population explosion occurred here in western Nevada. (we have a constant influx from california) What occurred was the lions stayed at high population levels after the deer herd crashed. The lions substituted small game while they continued their endless pursuit of mule deer. I have found cottontails, jackrabbits and chukar killed by lions and our desert porqupines have been decimated by the lions. Coyotes subsist on eating almost everything. In the spring time they have dens full of hungry pups to feed. Coyotes really kill a lot of fawns in the spring. And a dead deer is a dead deer. It will never be a buck we can hunt. No matter if it is killed as a fawn by a coyote or as a rutting mature buck by a lion. USDA WS said a single lion has been verified to have killed three deer in one week here in NV.
We should be keeping predators in check so we have more game to hunt. How can that be accomplished so more game that can be utilized by people? That is what wildlife management used to be all about. That is why we had tons of deer in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. People benefit from hunting activity. Food for the table and money spent in the economy for hunting.




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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[440sixpack]

Predation is the problem, only the dumbest hunter or an ODFW employee would argue it.

When I was a kid on the USFS and my own ranch we had an oh my god amount of deer, that was when the government trapper used 1080 and trapped cyotes, we used dogs on lions and eveyone shot them on sight. we didn't have near as many elk and many are quick to blame them but we grazed MUCH harder back then and we haven't had a severe winter since '93 so that's a weak excuse.

It's the cats and coyotes, if ODFW will use some of their ill gotten bootie to address them in an agressive mannor which they have the legal right to I'll get off their case. hell they could double the price again and I'd go for it.

 

[buckmster28]

Only reason I apply was how close oregon is and the price. Now I will draw a tag and quit as I feel even though there price maybe in line with other states there quality is not. Just my opinion, but I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

 

[280rem]

Sorry OR, just lost a few more hunters to your doubling of LIC fees for NR!!! Eight years of saving and putting in, did it for all states with a draw, but WTF!!! You'd think with the way times are with the economy and the hardships that the state governments would think first about raising the cost?!! Damn sad to see OR go down that path, hell their even gonna drive their own economy into the ground buy raising their own taxes!!!
Your neighbor down south is rubbing off on you! Need to wake up and smell it before you end up like them!!