PEAY TO HUNT!

R

runner

Guest
It is quit simple,

Pretty soon in Utah if things head the way that sfw is taking them to, all you will have to do is "PEAY" to hunt. The Group that claims to have 15,000 members in Utah might be lucky to have 5,000 in Utah (which is approximatly 1% of the sportsmen in the state)is trying very hard to wipe the little guy out.

REASONS

1.Plan to take 30% of limited entry tags and make them conservation tags to go to the highest bidder.(againts the dwr's wishes)Right now it is 5%
2. Each sportsmen in the state can only hunt 1 brown animal a year. example: either deer or elk not both.
3.Rich man can "PEAY" and have many tags in 1 year including multiple of the same species.
4. CWMU's get 2 months to hunt with weapon of choice while average hunter gets dictated when and how they can hunt.
5.If you "PEAY" enough you can hunt all 3 seasons on limited entry elk.
6.As Don himself said on this site, "bioligists don't manage wildlife politicians do".

I am scared that the tail (don and sfw ) is wagging the dog (genral public,average joe,dwr). This is a accident waiting to happen.

run forrest run
 
I'm with you runner. Pretty soon the remote control will be the only thing we'll be hunting. I agree that there is alot of wool being pulled over alot of sportsmans eyes.
 
I'd be interested to hear one example of a rich guy shooting more than one species in a season in UT. I don't think so!
Yelum
 
Like I have been preaching for years now, Keep the big money out of hunting. No outfitter preference, no ultra high priced nonres tags. You will only be hurting yourself as a resident trying to make the RICH nonres pay for your share of game management. Cough up an extra 20 bucks for your own tags and be happy the rest of the hunters arent rich a-holes that have the money to control your legislators. Voice your opinions on this in meeting with the F&G.
Keep a reasonable nonres cap and keep everything else as non-discrimitive as possible so the average guy can afford to hunt.
Let hunters get tags fairly and hire guides later if they choose.
 
Kudos Schmaltz!~ "Keep the big money out of hunting. No outfitter preference, no ultra high priced nonres tags. You will only be hurting yourself as a resident trying to make the RICH nonres pay for your share of game management. Cough up an extra 20 bucks for your own tags and be happy..."
I agree 100,000%...
 
It is unbelievable how you guys ##### and moan about Mr. Peay day after day. If it is that big of an issue to you why don't you go and start another group and put him out of business. Oh yeah I know it's because you are too ##### lazy. Has one of you ever talked to him personally and voiced your concerns? My guess is no and I know from first hand experience that he is willing to do this and all in all he is pretty down to earth.
 
One more point on rich hunters... Why in the hell would any of you allow something like Governers tags get sold to the highest bidder. Screw the rich bastard, what right does he have to hunt the best bulls in the best seasons year after year. Pull the plug and raise the usual tag fee to cover the cost. Let the rich a-hole buy his own ranch. once again, letting the rich do whatthey want. You guys should bring that up at the next meeting.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-04 AT 04:29PM (MST)[p]why don't you bring it up. oh yeah you are too *%$#@! lazy to do anything you just like to compain.
 
Easy trapper. Schmalts didn't attack you. He has some very valid points. If you have valid points, people will listen if you quit calling names. And Schamlts can't go to these meetings. He's too busy crapping-up everybody's backyard ;-).
 
No, maybe Schmalts is the typical average hunter that works his guts out 14 hours a day to support his wife and kids and can't get off or afford to spend the time to go to a meeting during the week. And when he does get off he likes to spend it with his family or out in the hills. Here's an idea, hold a meeting on Saturday and maybe more could attend.
 
I don't live in Utah, but this topic and thread is interesting. It seems to me as though only the rich guys on this page call people names. Tell me how many tags I can buy from that guy, or tag I can win being the highest bidder when I am 19, live on my own, have a wife(sorta), a kid, and only make $17,000 a year working 13 hrs nights by myself? Any rich people want to call me names for not wanting to starve my family so I can legally hunt?

Michael
 
RE: PAY TO HUNT!

Our country has created the most opportunity that has ever existed in the world, its called "Capitalism" free market economics, a system that rewards hard work & innovation with the realization that is called the "American Dream" where if someone does something better & smarter than anyone else they are often rewarded with power & wealth.

I personally have neither, yet see how I can make that happen.

It's not a mystery that our system has created the most power- full & influential system on this planet, since it works.
I pity anyone that does not see opportunity's for reward, I.E. purchasing a Governors tags, butt would rather B & M about those who have achieved such a reward.
Men are all created equal=true story,
Mens drive & ability to succeed financially is equal = not true story.

So to all those that think all hunting opportunity must be equal, my I suggest relocating to a socialist republic,

Canada comes to mind....
Sorry BC.Boy no offense, are you guys really socialists ?
 
RE: PAY TO HUNT!

so what they buy ONE bull tag,
the money goes to help out the whole system,
a little trickels into all the key players pockets,
some monatary amount makes it into the projects it was intended for.
whats the beef?
 
RE: PAY TO HUNT!

Just becouse we were created equal does not mean we have equal opportunity MONEY ussually begets $ and understanding where to direct ones energy helps out a whole lot .
 
Ok Rocky, We get that you are down on Don and SFW. Yet I don't hear much out of you but bitterness. What is your grand scheme to make wildlife habitat better, deal with coyotes, and all the other things that are in need of doin. FYI, Throwin rocks at Don doesent get you much more than a tired arm. If you don't like it show up to the rac and fix it. Bair 801-361-6824.
 
It is quit funny to me that the "puppet" prez. is always the one defending "THE DON". Can he not speak for himself? He has said many times he would answer any questions yet he has yet to answer mine.

1. Why did Gary Lewis and Tony Abbot leave SFW?

2. Did or does some SFW banquet chairs get paid for running banquets?

3. Is SFW supporting or prosecuting the color country outfitters poaching case?

4. Is it true that Don and Troy knew about the video tape months ago and told them that that was a local problem that should be handled locally?

5. Why did Bret Wursten of Logan and John Mogle of Manti resign ? Did it have anything to do with Tony leaving?

6. I have heard Don is telling people that Tony was fired, Tell us Prez, was he fired or did he resign?

7. Is SFW as legal as they tell everyone? or is there some hidden dark secrets that SFW has buried?

8. Why won't FISHON talk about his leaving? Are you holding something over his head.

9. Why did James Gilson insult the elk commitee and the DWR? Was that encouraged by SFW?

10.Why does Gary Lewis distrust Don and the SFW so much?

11. Why have so many good people left SFW?

PREZ. Answer me these questions on this site and then we can meet face to face.

I am a member of SFW, but I dont know for how long,

Todd "runner"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-04 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-04
>AT 04:29?PM (MST)
>
>why don't you bring it up.
>oh yeah you are too
>*%$#@! lazy to do anything
>you just like to compain.
>
You dont know me very well. Thanks others for standing up for me. Free speech is a thing that we all can have.
And yes, I do go to meetings in my home range, and I did bring it up..here, sorry it hit a sore note with you, grow up.
If you think its O.K. to let the rich out-pay for your hunting chances on public lands i feel sorry for your kids, and grandkids if they are middle class or less when its thier turn to try and hunt.
My point is let the rich man get his special tag from private hunts like the Indian res, or private ranches where the average Joe wouldnt get to hunt anyway.
My other point is if you think its great for these guys to pay your way for Elk hunting and management by bidding high for a tag keep in mind that one tag could have been one you pulled next year before the cap was lifted. I myself would rather pay an extra (didnt do the math yet) dollar for my application to have that extra tag go for a lucky lottery winner of a goveners tag instead of just forking it over to mr rich. Understand what i mean?
How many of you are willing to pay a dollar more for an elk tag to more than cover the cost of what would be lost by giving the gov tag to a lucky lottery winner instead? ( and if the tag was 40k last time its less than a dollar)
 
12. How much money goes from the non-profit SFH banquets, (advertised as SFW banquets) from the sale of Conservation Tags, goes back into the SFW bank for taking thosse moneys to Idaho, Wyoming, N.Mex., Az. ect. expanding SFW? Thats Illegal as hell. Leaving Utah with a lot less to show for the 'hype' of how great SFW is??

13 How come the number of Sheep tags for Conservation Tag sale/1 for Raffle stayed at such a high number of tags, when the tag amounts for the Utah public hunters dropped in quantity?? 5% of tags rule......
 
As long as I pay federal and state tax I would expect the same rights as the rich guy down the road. Under capitalism I believe a fire engine would respond to my double wide the same way a fire engine would respond to a mansion.

You can run that Rush Limbagh nonsense all you want

I pay my fair share. I expect to hunt public land that as far as I know sustains public wildlife, If you want a capitalist system
concerning hunting go buy a few sections of land and build a big fence then bring in the best farm bread bucks and bulls and you and the " Capitalist's " knock youself out.

Hunting and public lands are for all not just for the rich.

I remember after September 11 2001 I watched as a chain of
gas stations raised their prices to around $5.00 a gallon
now is this capatilism or is this Bullsh1t, the way things appear to be headed there is no difference between hunting tags and the crooked oil company that raised prices.

Just because something is a premium or in this case supply will never meet demand, you do not seperate classes economically
to give a advantage to the few. You come up with a plan to give all an equal chance weather it be Bill Gates or Joe Taxpayer with three kids and a mortgage.



14. I was wondering if the SFW rep to the elk committee brought along Jack Sh1t. It turns out that no one on the elk committee
know's Jack or anything about elk according to SFW.
 
To all the nay sayers, call John up. He left you his phone number at the end of his post. Call him up and get the facts from him, or don't you have the guts to talk to someone. Just take your list of questions, call him up on the phone, and have a pen handy to write down what he says. Sounds easy enough.
 
Runner, you shoot insults and then demand answers. I find that comical. Once in a while I get a phone call with a real question.
So if you are a member you have probably been to a banquet, so we have probably met. So how about it, 801-361-6824.
I doubt you really care much about these questions you ask. I think you just have an old bone to pick and your trying to make hay any way you can. And you never answered my question. If SFW is so off base, What would you do to fix things?
 
What you all are witnessing is the natural evelution of things. We must manage the wildlife the best way our limited knowledge shows us. Management of wildlife takes money and tags are the current way money is raised. More hunters means more money except it is never enough. F&G sits around trying to figure ways to keep paychecks coming and and populations from dieing off. Everybody can't and wont be satisfied. In the end those that want it bad enough and are willing to pay will win. Those that can't afford to play the game will figure something else to do with there time and money. Do I agree? No I wish time could be turned back. A time when you just went to the store and picked up a license and tag and went hunting. Before computers, GPS's, and high tech hunting with powerful binocs and scopes. A time I can remember. Can You?
 
Fix it......... seriously??
I think alot of the distrust of SFW would be elliminated it Don would leave. I don't really have a hard-on about SFW proper, I feel most of those guys/gals are truely hard working and believe they are seriously trying to improve many things for Utah and utah hunters.

I have no problem with 10r having full control and guidance over SFW and really no problem with the rest of the BOD.

Don has what 3-4 positions, or control over.... pick one and leave the rest. Stay with the national FNAWS position, or the UFNAWS or the SFW or that Gov. Leavitt postion given/made up for him that gives final say more or less on way to many activities in our state of Utah. I mean RAC and Wildlife board positons are simply Don's choice/final say. No one should have that much control, me , you, him, her, them.......

And keep every single penny of the sale of OUR Utah conservation tags in the NON-profit SFH and keep everysingle penny of those tags sold in our state of Utah, not goig to SFW Wyo. or SFW Idaho or SFW N.Mex ect.

So there is my 'fix' suggestions...... it will never happen. And all the distrust and unhappyness and bickering and name calling and..........have a safe and good week all.
 
first of all dumbass it does stay here. Second without Don there is no organization and unless you have sat and talked with him which he has offered your opinion doesn't matter to me
 
Pleasedear, the flow of money is going the other way. The SFW in NM has to be self-sufficient, with 10% of the money we raise going back to UT.
 
RE: PAY TO HUNT!

BFE,
Your views on hunting is just what has gotten us into to trouble in wildlife management. Screw ethics and any kind of sportman's code, the end justifies the means. The turning of hunting into big business and an economic commodity has done more to damage the sport than almost any other practice. If you have achieved some form of financial security and prospered through your hard work and efforts, then great for you and those around you, but don't push this capitalism BS into the realm of resource management. In case you did not know the wildlife resources of a state belong to each citizen equally (just as you mentioned equality earlier) and the folks criticizing what they are seeing happen, especially within the state of Utah, have every right to voice these concerns and I would argue have that responsibility as sportsmen. I find it humorous that you are arguing the values capitalism here. Over the years it has become more than a little apparent that hard work and innovoation are not nearly so rewarded as saying "yes sir" to large political interest groups that are funded by abusive corporate giants. anyhow
 
bobcat-rapper,

You are so political in your responses. I would love to sit around a banquet table with you and break bread each year. Maybe you can sway me over to the other side. Then, you could teach me your hard-ass, arrogant, approach to SFW missionary work. Relax a lttle would ya. This isn't the mafia we are talking about. Or is it?:)

Or, maybe if you want to take a lesson from nmtaxi, you could try to work with people in an intelligent manner, then you might get somewhere.

ktc
 
Hey BOBCAT TRAPPER welcome to monstermuley's
I see that you have made around 30 something post's in your
time here, hopefully they were all as insightful as the post above.

If you knew pleasedear you would know that a better guy would be hard to find, you would also know that he has probably forgotten more about hunting or the mountains than you or I will ever know.

The only difference is that he has brains enough to figure things out for himself and not be lead around by the nose like the sheep you apparently are.

I have never supported SFW and I never will but that is not to be read as everyone over there is a " dumbass " John does the best he can as I am sure Don does as well, SFW has done a lot of good.

Infact the only way I know Don is from the few RAC's I attend to watch him oppose every proposal made by archers.

Since we are on the subject of Don why don't you ask him at your next fabulous luncheon his views on PREDATORS. BOBCAT TRAPPER, or even better why not ask HOUNDDOG on this site
or ask FISHON and compare notes.

see ya trapper hopefully there are a few cats left for you to trap
 
bobca,,, post really was't as bad as most of his. Not one single @#$$%%^^& in it. Makes me re-think the idea of Private School vouchers for education of our youth.

Hell, I figured I would have no butt left by this morning........


There is tons of good about Don. But there is tons of self-serving about Don too.
Running late this morning, see ya.......
 
Pleasedear,

You are wrong about SFW WY, SFW ID, and SFW NM. Each are independant of SFW UT. SFW is building an association of States. The conservation permit money is retained by Utah. 90% of the dollars go into conservation, 10% is retained by the organization which sold the conservation permit. This is to cover administrative costs. SFW Wyoming has never recieved money from the sale of conservation permits nor has SFW WY ever sold any of Utah's conservation permits.

As was stated in an earlier post, all of the new SFW states pay 10% of their net profits to cover costs of lobbying on a national level.

Sportsmen pay a little over .05 cents per day ($20/365 days) in order to have someone represent them. Seems cheap to me.
 
It might be of interest as to who pays smokesticks salary. I believe I am correct in noting that after he left Deseret he worked for a short time as the Utah coordinator for the Mule Deer Foundation and during that time was vocally anti SFW. Since leaving the MDF he now is the state director for SFW Wyoming and monies raised by SFW Wyoming are how he makes his living. I am not discrediting anyone for their choice as to how to make a living. I just find irony as to how things change and as they do we seem to forget where we came from. Yes in smokesticks case he went from one side of the tracks to the other and now seems to be one SFW's most valuable cheerleaders. In Tony Abbots case the track goes the other way from being a SFW contractor and cheerleader to vocally anti SFW. I remember being applauded by smokestick when battling SFW and black listed by Tony for the same comments. Now it is interesting the tide has changed.
I am glad Tony stood his ground in his beliefs and had the Cahonas to say enough is enough. Issues Tony is not afraid to talk about have overshadowed SFW's efforts for a long time. Again I have stated this is the third time a falling out has happened within the SFW hierarchy with a lot of the same accusations being leveled. I have met with SFW's chairman of the board and have been told by the end of the year things will be corrected. Or as he put it in the meeting the ship will be righted. Don't discount what Tony is saying, who knows the most about you, I assume that is your right hand and Tony was SFW's and Don Peays right hand for the past few years.
I believe SFW's concept is good for the sportsman and a vehicle that could take us to the promise land, right now I am afraid of the driver. Whoever that is, seems to have forgot there are laws we all live by in order for traffic to flow smoothly and as you can see by the traffic on this website the SFW vehicle is a little out of control.
FYI I have been told by the chairman of the board Don Peay is only a contractor like smokestick or Tony was and is directed by the SFW board as to his need and actions. So far the example set speaks louder than words. Don Peay and SFW seem to be synonomous as he is listed under SFW officers on their website and is the one to speak for the organiztion through press release, RAC and Wildlife Board meetings and on this website. I guess my summarization is that Don Peay is driving the SFW vehicle.
Travis Sparks
 
I get it now why Smokestick commented the way he did. He's getting paid with our money!!! What a bunch of crap!!! How much are you making Smokestick? Let's hear how much per month sportsmen are paying for your services!!!!! What a joke!!!
 
Now on a serious note. There is no solution to the woes that haunt us. Not SFW, not Fishon, not USO, not MDF, or NWTF. Nobody.
It would take an act of god to fix this mess.

What I observe here is that each and every one of us is guilty of greed. If we hunt deer, we want more deer. If we hunt sheep, we want more sheep, and so on. The same principle applies to our weapons of choice, methods of pursuit, and the time of year we go. To hell with everything and everyone else. It'a all about me, me, me. Give ME a tag. Greed.

We won't give up a year of hunting for any reason. Even if that would be the best thing for the wildlife. We won't let biologists be biologists. It is all about me going this year and getting a big one. Right now!

SFW has put another survey up. This one, I believe, has some meat to it.

Respondants:
SFW Member 442
Non-Member (those are scary words in Utah!)1477

The one species that people are most interested in that replied:
Pheasants: 20.3%
Deer:15.8%
Elk:10.6%
Trout:8.4%
Ducks:5.6%
Cougar:5.1%
Bighorn Sheep:4.9%
and so on....

What is really funny is that cougars rank ahead of sheep. The top three vote getters were what I grew up hunting. The elk has improved immensely, pheasants and deer are in the toilet and going down fast. But wait a minute. I have to hunt them every year. Even if this means a chance to "blow a hole the size of a Ford pick-up in the last 2 point in Utah!"

So as I see it the focus is not in the right area. Who has the ability to accomplish fixing pheasants, deer, and elk? Nobody! Because we are greedy! We are woried about the wrong things. Wait a minute, I am greedy.

If we really were concerned, all of us, some direction would be placed on transplanting pheasants, growing the deer herd, and taking good care of our elk herd. But who? SFW? Fishon? MDF? Nope. None of them. The task is too big and we cannot provide tags to everyone every year. We are greedy! Remember?


Give me a tag. Give my family a tag. My dead grandpa and dead uncle need to go too. All of us. Just one big happy family like the good ol' days. I just want to hunt every year! If there is a group out there who truly wants to "fix" this ungodly mess you have my support. Maybe the best option is to take up church and pray to god this mess is untangled.

ktc
 
Is SFW the only organization to pay persons who work full time? How about RMEF? How about the NRA? How about D.U? Any paid persons in these organizations?

I'm not trying to defend any organization or any person, but does everyone think that something will be done on a totally voluntary basis?

The fact that in this (or any other organization) there are paid employees working full time to promote the cause (whatever the cause may be) is no reason to get bent out of shape.

Furthermore, if you don't want to pay this or any one elses salary, simply don't join the organization. If your a member of SFW and have a problem with how much someone is being paid, go to your board and complain!! If that doesn't work, start up your own, better organization and convince people to join! Hell, if your group does any good, I'll join.
 
ktc,

You are correct in that we all need to shoulder the blame.

It isn't about any one individual or group. However, you are wrong when you state that SFW isn't doing something about the problem. Who was able to get the cap in place? SFW has been working hard to get the BLM to begin doing something about the problem. Mule deer (nor pheasants for that matter) didn't disappear over night. What has happened will require sacrifice for us to repair. Whose generation will fix the problem? Do we continue waiting for someone else to step up or do we act now? SFW is at least trying to get something done. And for what? $20.00 per member. If everyone would work together we might be able to find a solution. We can continue to deride and degrade the debate or we can identify the problem(s) and attempt to fix them. All I have seen lately is a bunch of name calling, bitching and moaning, and finger pointing. Do you want to fix the problem(s) or are most simply venting or frustrated. I remember a former friend that opened a meeting stating that it was not a ##### & maon session. Anyone was welcome to identify a problem so long as they had thought a potential solution to that problem. Do you know how stupid we look to those which are attempting to destroy our heritage of hunting, fishing, and trapping? I do. They are elated to learn that once again Sportsmen have turned upon themselves. Do you every see or hear any of the anti-hunting crowd fighting amongst themselves? Do you think thay always agree? This forum isn't just followed by hunters. Were have all the Peta friends gone? I'll bet they are sitting around the computer with their friends laughing at us as we self-destruct.

Maybe Sportsmen are to simple to understand what is going on. Why should anyone fight to protect our heritage when the only thing you will ever recieve is criticism. I can remember when no one cared about Sportsmen. When was the last time you heard a President of the United States mention that he was proud to be a hunter? I wish Tony the best. He must have big plans. I haven't heard or seen anything from him yet; only criticism.

I once worked for the mule deer foundation. Some have assumed that I was opposed to SFW. I could have aired the dirty laundry regarding MDF but I saw no need. I have always been out spoken in my beliefs. When I have disagreed with Don I have spoken with him about it in private or in public if the opportunity wasn't available prior. There was nothing to be gained by deriding the MDF I simply made a decision to leave because MDF no longer had the same goals as I had. Therefore, I chose to help expand the concept Don developed in SFW to other states. SFW is in the process of building an association of states. Now Tony seems bent on destroying SFW. Who benefits if Tony succeeds? Who looses? I still believe in the model, otherwise I wouldn't be out talking with Sportsmen about issues and seeking solutions. I am tired of the never ending whining that I hear about this group or that group. SFW is what you make of it. If you don't like it stop supporting it by attending their functions and paying your membership. If Tony has a better idea, more power to him. I would prefer to stay with a model that has proven successful over the last ten years.

Good luck ;)
 
Don has done nothing but try to help me. We disagree on many things, but he always listens, and i make my opinions not him or SFW
 
And sorry to "Please Dear" my comments were not proper. But i do disagree with you saying that most my posts are like that because very few of them are, only when i get called out
 
Sure no problem bobct.... heat of the moment......
Smokepole, come on man.....ya got no other choice than to wave the greatness flag.......back and forth back and forth who ever pays ya the most......but it certainly isn't the end of the world type deal....
 
Smokestick,

Absolutely, we ALL are to blame.

I never said SFW did nothing. I have always said that they have done some good. My comments were not pointed at SFW, they are pointed at the whole system.

The poll on the SFW website shows me that Bighorn Maggots are not on the list of importance, but yet big bucks are raised and spent on them. I am sure SFW has every right to auction these tags, as does RMEF, MDF, and so forth. Or, do they?

These are my comments that are geared towards the top three vote getters on your site.

Pheasants; cannot stop human invasion and encroachment. A thing of the past.

Deer; predators, cars, drought, and winter range are to blame. Maybe they are to a certain extent, but why on gods green earth don't those who have a say, like SFW because they are organized, offer to REDUCE, yes I said REDUCE, deer tags????? It is one thing we can control. In your state the deer are micromanaged and rides are conducted to survey the winter loss and do counts, THEN and only THEN, does Wyoming decide on what the tag numbers will be. Not here, 97,000 tags every year. Buck to doe ratios and herd numbers are below objectives, we are in a drought that compares with the Dust Bowl years, but yet, someone, someone with their head planted firmly up the backside, still believes that it is their god given right to pack a 450 super duper ultra mag around the hills in their pumpkin suit and kill the bastards and once again we hear 97,000 tags. Doesn't one think that with a larger resource that opportunity would follow? I am not that smart, but certainly it stands to reason. Opportunity we scream! Bighorn numbers continue to increase. But most of us don't give a crap.

Elk; spike only was the one law that was put into place that helped our elk. The pumpkins say "I coulda' got a six point, but I have to shoot a spike, bastards." Good grief people, the only reason that six point exists is because you did not shoot the SOB when he was one or two years old. We have a good thing in elk here. Why "f" it up? Because we are greedy! We have 2 points and we ask; "Well golly, I want to draw." Well you know what? I want to draw too! But I can't! BUT I WILL WAIT MY TURN! I did not draw a deer tag. Never. I put in for elk. We are greedy. Every last one of us.

So, therefore, when I see ALL funds put into what the people, those who are really believing in what they are doing, those that are volunteering time and money, want and desire which is; DEER, ELK, PHEASANTS, COUGAR and so forth, and those sheep hunters quit getting each and everything THEY want. Then, I will join.

One more thing; I want Tony's job. I want it with the ability to speak my mind without retribution, and put to use what people want within reason. I am not a puppet and I don't need my strings pulled. I want to put the health of OUR herds first. The money hunters can kiss my butt.

CWMU's are a joke. Period. Until the public hunters get the same season, same access and same help that those 11k guys get, my opinion is they are a joke. Just watch the news.

Not tearing on you, or SFW, or FNAWS, just calling it as I see it.

ktc
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-04 AT 01:06PM (MST)[p]Ktc, good post and I agree with most of what you said. Deer tags need to be reduced and now. I also want Tony's job if I can speak my mind. But if you had to be someone's puppet 6,000 per month wouldn't be worth it.
 
We all want a job where we get to do whatever we want, but few of us do. Whether it's Tony's old job, or most others, we have a boss. Tony's boss was the SFW board and those on the executive board. His job was to do what the board wanted, not what he wanted.
If my boss tells me to do something, I do it, or I move on.

If the members of SFW want something to work different, then they need to call their local chapter chair and have a chat. The chair will then take that to the board.

As far as deer tag reduction, that's a very difficult feat. I don't think the SFW has the ability to just say, "DWR, cut tags". The DWR relies on the funds generated by deer tags, we all know that. So when you ask for a reduction, you better be able to not only replace the lost money, but also keep all those people who will not get a tag happy. Because just as we're complaining, they will also.

Remember, there are 97,000+ opinions as to what should be done about the deer in Utah, and they aren't all the same.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Founder,

I have worked for a jack-ass as my boss my whole life, why would this be any different? ;-) Please don't tell me the rules of employment. I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

Well, I beg to differ. I believe that Don Peay has the ability to suggest just that, REDUCE TAGS, and it will become law.

One more thing; 97,000 opinions does not matter. One well educated and informed biologist should be able to make that determination. It is an easy feat, 65,000 tags or whatever our biologist says. I just did it! Who gives a crap what 97,000 greedy people think? I know one thing for damn sure, you cannot sell more deer tags than existing bucks. Why is this so hard to understand. As i stated months back, you sure as hell won't see the same number of bighorn tags as bighorn rams. Why is this? I will tell you, greed.

How does Wyoming make up the differnce in their tags in terms of money? Doesn't seem to be a problem up north. Some accountant somewhere should be able to figure it out. Whoops! Here is a brilliant idea! Charge $10 more dollars for the tag!!! Supply is down....Demand is up, it is simple economics. Please, don't cry the tears of too much money. SFW wants $20 a year and they say that is not much, and it isn't. Should be the same principle for the bastard child of Utah, the mule deer.

Once again, I smell greed. I need a tag. Me, me, me, mine, mine, mine.

Founder, why are you wearing the SFW rally cap all of the sudden? Do you think we have some holes in the system? DWR? SFW? SPORTSMAN? Or, is it perfect and I should just not have an opinion? Again, I am not tearing down anyone. I am trying to express the views that I have and probably many more.

ktc
 
I don't want this buried. I really am curious how Wyoming makes up for lost revenue with tag reductions. Also, I am very curious as to how the group, SFW, feels about tag reductions in order to help OUR deer. Not all of the riff-raff, just how about reductions?

I am curious as to what information is being gathered and for what reason on the latest poll on the SFW website. Is this an effort to put energy towards the deer? Or pheasants? Or elk? One thing I would like to mention, and I am guilty, I tried to see if this is the case, but one can sit at their computer and take the suvey over and over and over and over. I does not say "you have already voted." So, if one was to believe that there is some statistical value to these polls, there is not.

Take my work and Tony's job with a grain of salt Founder. While I feel I could help, my life has progressed past the pee-on stage. I am a little concerned when you say you do what the boss says, or move on. Hopefully, this is not the case here. Most times, the best ideas come from the "worker" inside of any organization.

I think people get concerned, I do, because I believe Don really does have a say and his ideas are mulled over carefully. That is why I wish SFW could be for me.

ktc
 
Man ktc, you're wired tonight! That's OK, I like it. Atleast you care. Unforunately, words in this forum probably won't do much to help your cause.

As far as Don, he does have a say, he's a paid consultant for SFW. However, the 25 board members have the power to make the final decision. Absolutely, Don's words carry a lot of weight, but that is because he knows the system and makes educated suggestions that he believes have a chance to get passed by RAC's. It's his job to know and provide information to the board.

You can argue your point with me all you want, but it isn't going to do much good. If you're so sure that YOUR plan will work, take it to the Wildlife Board and make it happen.
Give me a call when you do, I'd love to hear what they have to say when you ask, based on YOUR personal opinion, for them to cut 30,000 deer tags and add $10.00 to current tag prices. I'm sure they've never heard that before!

You act as though I'm in favor of 97,000 deer tags in Utah. I'd like to see less also, but it's been asked by many before and it's a difficult feat. What more can I say---that's that.
I personally have no problem forking over more money, in fact, it means enough to me to fork over $500.00 a year for a good tag. I did it this year in Wyoming.
But, there are plenty out there who will really complain about price increases. It's easy for you to say, "who cares", but the people who matter, "say we do!"
When you're on the DWR Wildlife Board or a RAC, you can decide, but until then, those sitting on that board decide---and they DO care.

Why am I wearing the SFW rally hat? Because I do think things need to be fixed and just like you, I think SFW has the power to make a difference. SFW has flipped the bill for projects, land, etc. and impressed me.
I certainly don't agree with everything SFW does, but I realize that not everything can work MY way.

Some group, or groups, need to get it done, because no single opinion is going to carry much weight. Atleast that's what I think.
The anti's are organized and powerful. In fact, I heard today that one group has been frequenting the site and probably getting a good chuckle out of how divided sportsmen are.
You are exactly right when you say, "Me Me Me".

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Founder,

Just a few more thoughts. The RAC meetings are like this forum. If you have a valid reason or argument, or a non-valid reason or argument, you cannot get a word in edgewise and the opinions are muffled and lost in debate.

You can do as I did, and that is, write an email to the RAC representative for your region in a friendly and diplomatic manner that is not complaining. Then, as I have wait for 2 and 1/2 years for a response. I am still waiting.;-)

You mention 5 Bennies for Wyoming. I would do the same. You have a good tag. In fact, I have hunted Wyoming 3 times in the last 6 years. My biggest buck came from there as did my hunting partners, 28" and 29." I have hunted Utah for 28 years and have never done that. Close, but not that. I have said that I would take a general Wyoming deer tag over ANY Utah tag. I still would. You should have fun. Pressure should be light because of the tag decrease and Wyoming fights hard to keep a strong herd.

If a bunny-hugger is reading this and laughing, well, they can kiss my brown eye.:)
 
ktc,

Sorry I have been out in the hills for a while and missed some of the discussion. SFW WY actually asked the Wy G&F to decrease the number of deer licenses issued this year for regions G & H. Unfortunately, only non-resident licenses were able to be cut this year and we (both SFW 7 WY G&F) agreed to re-evaluate things next year. Something termed adaptive management. Wyoming was able to move the licenses that were cut from regions G & H into other regions so Wyoming didn't suffer much from this action.

I have said all along that I thought the initial cap of 97,000 was too high. It was a start. One of the difficult things associated with additional reductions isn't lost revenue as I believe more than likely it could be found by Utah's Legislators. However, one of the major problems is that people are already complaining about lost opportunity or reduce opportunity. In the early 1990's I can remember attending a big game board meeting in Ogden. Several of the hunters in attendance voiced their opposition to the "choose your weapon" strategy and stated they would prefer to see overall numbers cut and perhaps a limit of one license every three years. When we had 250,000 hunters that would have been a little over 83,000 hunters annually. Since the cap has now been put in place, it might be possible to make a "limited" adjustment to the cap. Perhaps the number should be lowered but how are you going to get it done? Too many hunters expect it to be the other guy that doesn't hunt. In reality, no one desires to stop hunting. That is why we needed to establish hunting & fishing regulations to begin with. What has happened to the 153,000 hunters that no longer hunt each year in Utah? What would happen to the 14,000 hunters if the cap was lowered to 83,000 hunters? Who gets cut out? Some will say it will only be the rich guys that are left or allowed to hunt. Perhaps it will be only those that are truly willing to sacrifice for our resources which will stay in the fight. The cost of hunting would need to increase as the demand for management would remain the same or slightly increase while the number of participants supporting hunting would decline. How many guys are currently complaining about increased licenses fees for LE elk permits? The Legislators will not be able to recover all of the lost income from decreases in the number of licenses sold only a portion. It will only cost more to hunt. Does that mean that we are only concerned about the rich guys? That is what I keep hearing. The bottom line is that the resource needs some substantial help. How do we get the deer herds back to where everyone would like to see them? As I have stated before, SFW has been working hard to get the BLM to quit looking at wildlife as a four letter word and place an increased level of importance on wildlife. The BLM is starting to address some major problems in the West. Ironically, it isn't because of mule deer but rather because of sage grouse. Too many people have the idea that the only reason we want more mule deer is because we want to be able to kill more mule deer. Therefore, several have neglected this magnificant and majestic western animal. Only beacuse of the potential impacts that listing sage grouse would cause are high ranking individuals within the BLM now looking at how sagebrush steppe zones are managed. If enough of the Sportsmen in Utah desire to reduce numbers you should be talking about that but be prepared to called numerous names, etc. We are our own worst enemies. Does anyone think the environmentalist crowd is going to rally to protect one species that is hunted? They aren't concerned about mule deer or sage grouse. Sage grouse is just a tool for them to accomplish their agenda. Meanwhile, we all set back fighting among ourselves. United we stand a chance, divided we will lose.
 
Smoke,

Thanks for the response. You bring up good points, but feel I can debate some of those points.

I don't need to be called names, thats what Don is for. ;-)

I know, people get upset easy, but I must say, the rules are the rules and people will have to get over it just as they did the pick your weapon and spike only.

I put a suggestion in the mule deer forum in the thread about about dk. What about a 2 deer every 4 years you draw, similar to the dedicated hunting program? People would have to be choosy about what they want. You can limit tags the rich will have equal chance as will the poor. We draw by lottery like everything else. Build up the herd, add tags back. I have never griped about cost. If people want to hunt, they will pay. How about after the general deer draw, the unsuccessful people get first crack at general season elk? Pick elk or deer general season going into the draw. Just some broad ideas. A strong herd will only provide more opportunity for all to use.

I feel like predators get way too much attention. I feel like everything gets attention but the tag numbers, which would make the greatest immediate impact.
 
S-Pole,
Very informative and a very un bias dialoge. Makes alot of other BLM thoughts and directives seem dumbfounded.

ktc has a basicly good idea of 2 out of 4 years or how about a 'Deer Point' for every tag you don't fill??

It owuld be tough to not hunt at home every year but maybe some type of every other year deer hunt would cut the tag/kill amounts in 1/2??
 

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