M
Max
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-10-11 AT 12:02PM (MST)[p]For an Omega? Your opinion?
utahbigbull
Active Member
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What do you want most? Convinience that may give acceptable accuracy OR the best achievable accuracy for your Omega?
M
Max
Guest
Convinience that may give acceptable accuracy = Pellets
the best achievable accuracy for your Omega = Loose Powder
Why is this?
the best achievable accuracy for your Omega = Loose Powder
Why is this?
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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Loose! Considerably cheaper, customizable, and just as fast as pellets if you have a few speed loader tubes.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
utahbigbull
Active Member
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In example, my Triumph shoots the load I am pushing best with 115 gr of powder. My groups wander a bit (not too noticable) going to 110 or 120. But 115 is perfect for a sub 1" @100 yds.. Cant get that with pellet. Pellets can also vary a in grainage by chipped edges etc..
But my main reason for using powder is after shooting BH209 and being so much cleaner not having to swab between every shot or two, I wont bother with the dirty pellets anymore. I can shoot 20 shots with the 209 and accuracy is not effected and still loads easy.
You might prefer pellets, you are the best one to awnser that by hitting the range and seeing what you and your gun like the best.
But my main reason for using powder is after shooting BH209 and being so much cleaner not having to swab between every shot or two, I wont bother with the dirty pellets anymore. I can shoot 20 shots with the 209 and accuracy is not effected and still loads easy.
You might prefer pellets, you are the best one to awnser that by hitting the range and seeing what you and your gun like the best.
M
Max
Guest
Thanks guys . . . That makes sense.
I use BH 209 100 grns in my Omega and get 1" groups.You start at 80 and work up or down and get the best load for the bullet you use.I'm using 250 gr Barnes tmz sabots.but I'll be switching to tez's as they load better and I hear are more accurate still.Non of the clean after each shot bs with BH 209 either.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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+1 and Blackhorn 209 is only available in loose. Other powders are just as accurate and cheaper, but you can't beat Blackhorn for shooting without having to swab or clean your gun right away
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
hossblur
Long Time Member
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- 10,555
missed a deer, it didn't know where I was so I was laying on my back trying to reload, with the gun horizontal i poured about as much powder on my chest as got in the gun, the second shot had about 1/2 a load, the big old feller just laughed and bound off. Will never use loose again just because of that.
utahbigbull
Active Member
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- 868
Thats why in the muzzy hunting world, it is pretty well known your first shot is probably your only shot, make it count.
FrontierGander
Very Active Member
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Timberbuck
Active Member
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- 346
True, your first shot is usually the only one thats matters. So, how fast your gun gets dirty is not that important in a hunting situation. I tell everybody to at least try the regular pyrodex pellets in their guns. I have seen many guns shoot well with a magnum charge (.50 cal 150 grains)of regular pellets and a good sabot (barnes,TC). Also, you can't match the velocity of three RS pellets with any other powder. You can beat a max charge of 209 or triple 7 loose powder by a couple hundred FPS. This three pellet load of rs pellets is about as good as it gets in power and flat trajectory in a .50 cal 150 grain max load gun. It should not be overlooked.
I have never seen a 150 grain charge of triple 7 pellets shoot accurately and hodgon does not recommend it.
And the statement that pellets are not accurate or as accurate as loose powder is hogwash. It all depends on the gun.
I have been shooting a load of 3 rs pellets, a barnes expander 250 grain sabot for 8 years out of my gun. It prints around 1 inch three shot groups at 100 yards and even more important, sub three inch three shot groups at 200 yards. Its 3.5 inches high at 100 yards and 5 inches low at 200.
My dads gun (a different make) prints 1 inch three shot groups with the same powder charge and a barnes TEZ sabot at 100 yards.
I have never seen a 150 grain charge of triple 7 pellets shoot accurately and hodgon does not recommend it.
And the statement that pellets are not accurate or as accurate as loose powder is hogwash. It all depends on the gun.
I have been shooting a load of 3 rs pellets, a barnes expander 250 grain sabot for 8 years out of my gun. It prints around 1 inch three shot groups at 100 yards and even more important, sub three inch three shot groups at 200 yards. Its 3.5 inches high at 100 yards and 5 inches low at 200.
My dads gun (a different make) prints 1 inch three shot groups with the same powder charge and a barnes TEZ sabot at 100 yards.
steepandeep
Member
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- 35
I switched from using Tripple 7 pellets in the past, to this year using blackhorn209. My accuarcy has improved a lot and my gun is so much cleaner after shots. I'm going to stick with loose powder from here on out. I also went from using Powerbelts to Precision dead center bullets, huge difference in accuracy as well. Last time out to the range I was getting 2" groups @100 yrds and the same @ 200 yrds.
W
westernexpedition
Guest
Loose Powder is the only way to go
Pellets are fine if you don't care to accurize your rifle. Any cartridge handloader knows the difference that only a few grains of powder can make. It's the same for muzzleloaders. I shoot loose because I like to tinker. And because I also hunt Colorado and Nevada which both require it. My home state of Arizona is okay with pellets but I still shoot loose.
Pellets are fine if you don't care to accurize your rifle. Any cartridge handloader knows the difference that only a few grains of powder can make. It's the same for muzzleloaders. I shoot loose because I like to tinker. And because I also hunt Colorado and Nevada which both require it. My home state of Arizona is okay with pellets but I still shoot loose.
WillPower
Active Member
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RE: Loose Powder is the only way to go
CVA Kodiak Magnum, 150 grains (3 pellets) of 777, Barnes 285 grain TMZ, Bushnell Elite 3200 3 x 9, 3-shots touching at 100 yards, have not moved my scope since 2006, each year same 3 shots, same results.
Serious elk medicine and I mean hammers them hard!!!
"My only regret in life is setting my goals too low"
CVA Kodiak Magnum, 150 grains (3 pellets) of 777, Barnes 285 grain TMZ, Bushnell Elite 3200 3 x 9, 3-shots touching at 100 yards, have not moved my scope since 2006, each year same 3 shots, same results.
Serious elk medicine and I mean hammers them hard!!!
"My only regret in life is setting my goals too low"
B
booner76
Guest
Any muzzleloader shooter know's that a few grain difference here and there means NOTHING, black powder is measured by volume not weight like smokeless rifle powder.
Any body weighing blackpowder has too much time on there hands.
Every single rifle is different, however, powder makes very little difference from gun to gun as far as accuracy, ignition is a very different matter, bullet type is where the major accuracy difference comes from, you can nit pick BH209, T7, pellet's vs loose all day and you will get different answer's
The first couple responders on here are right on, it is totally up to you, depends on the model, make of rifle you are shooting due to bbl manufacturer differences and so on.
Loose powder does provide a greater degree of accuracy because it gives you a more consistant burn, burn rate's in black powder shooting dictate how accurate a gun is gonna shoot more so than the brand of powder. That is why those of us that not only hunt with smoke poles but shoot them competitively shoot loose powder. Make sence?
1. Sabot's shoot best because they have the most bbl wall contact, some conicles also fit this requirement.
2. loose powder because of the BURN RATE being so much quicker than pellet's.
3. whatever type of ignition you use, use the hottest you can get with the exception of 209 primers then stnds generally produce the best accuracy.
One last tip, never, ever, hunt with a clean rifle. Alway's hunt with a fouled bbl in your muzzleloader, try it, shoot a shot with a clean bbl (fresh from the bath tub) and then shoot a three shot group with a fouled bbl. See what happens. It has little to do with the clean bbl, it has everything to do with the seal of the breach plug. You will alway's have different, more consistent pressures from a rifle that has been fouled.
I hope this help you out, good luck this fall.
Any body weighing blackpowder has too much time on there hands.
Every single rifle is different, however, powder makes very little difference from gun to gun as far as accuracy, ignition is a very different matter, bullet type is where the major accuracy difference comes from, you can nit pick BH209, T7, pellet's vs loose all day and you will get different answer's
The first couple responders on here are right on, it is totally up to you, depends on the model, make of rifle you are shooting due to bbl manufacturer differences and so on.
Loose powder does provide a greater degree of accuracy because it gives you a more consistant burn, burn rate's in black powder shooting dictate how accurate a gun is gonna shoot more so than the brand of powder. That is why those of us that not only hunt with smoke poles but shoot them competitively shoot loose powder. Make sence?
1. Sabot's shoot best because they have the most bbl wall contact, some conicles also fit this requirement.
2. loose powder because of the BURN RATE being so much quicker than pellet's.
3. whatever type of ignition you use, use the hottest you can get with the exception of 209 primers then stnds generally produce the best accuracy.
One last tip, never, ever, hunt with a clean rifle. Alway's hunt with a fouled bbl in your muzzleloader, try it, shoot a shot with a clean bbl (fresh from the bath tub) and then shoot a three shot group with a fouled bbl. See what happens. It has little to do with the clean bbl, it has everything to do with the seal of the breach plug. You will alway's have different, more consistent pressures from a rifle that has been fouled.
I hope this help you out, good luck this fall.
B
booner76
Guest
Hey Thanks, you too. I thought I was a little long winded but....lol!
El_Matador
Active Member
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- 359
Good posts so far. I'd like to debate a few points though 
Saying that loose powder is more consistent because pellets can be chipped is not a foolproof argument. The fact that loose powder is measured by volume can lead to significant differences in charge weight. The way your powder flows from the measure can affect its volume and consequently its weight. Anyone who has loaded cartridges through a drop tube knows what I'm talking about. The size of the granules can also vary from the top of the can to the bottom, again changing the charge.
Burn rate cannot possibly be an argument for or against pellets since both types of powder produce very similar velocities.
The real disadvantages of pellets are 1) Cost, and 2) Limited charge weights. If your gun groups well with pellets (mine is under 1 moa) then the ONLY factor becomes cost. If your gun does not shoot pellets well then loose powder would be a better option. As others have said, it comes down to whatever works better in your gun. Plenty of people shoot sub-moa with each.
Now if you want the clean shooting of BH209 then you are forced to use loose, but its illegal in my state anyway.
Everyone who owns a muzzleloader should plan on buying at least 4 powders or pellet types and 12 boxes of bullets before finding a good load. Then they should put all the stuff that didn't work into a plastic tote and keep it for the rest of their lives. The stuff is actually worthless, but since it cost so much to buy it has to be saved.
Saying that loose powder is more consistent because pellets can be chipped is not a foolproof argument. The fact that loose powder is measured by volume can lead to significant differences in charge weight. The way your powder flows from the measure can affect its volume and consequently its weight. Anyone who has loaded cartridges through a drop tube knows what I'm talking about. The size of the granules can also vary from the top of the can to the bottom, again changing the charge. Burn rate cannot possibly be an argument for or against pellets since both types of powder produce very similar velocities.
The real disadvantages of pellets are 1) Cost, and 2) Limited charge weights. If your gun groups well with pellets (mine is under 1 moa) then the ONLY factor becomes cost. If your gun does not shoot pellets well then loose powder would be a better option. As others have said, it comes down to whatever works better in your gun. Plenty of people shoot sub-moa with each.
Now if you want the clean shooting of BH209 then you are forced to use loose, but its illegal in my state anyway.
Everyone who owns a muzzleloader should plan on buying at least 4 powders or pellet types and 12 boxes of bullets before finding a good load. Then they should put all the stuff that didn't work into a plastic tote and keep it for the rest of their lives. The stuff is actually worthless, but since it cost so much to buy it has to be saved.
B
booner76
Guest
Or they can put the Bullet's on MM for sale LOL!!!
El matador : Pellet's, loose, for hunting, whatever. I agree with what you wrote, but I really need to here more about this powder taken from the bottum of the can vs from the top, Maybe I am missing something here. Seriously, I have never found that to be true...never even heard of that before till I joined this site??? And I have been around. somebody please fill me in.
El matador : Pellet's, loose, for hunting, whatever. I agree with what you wrote, but I really need to here more about this powder taken from the bottum of the can vs from the top, Maybe I am missing something here. Seriously, I have never found that to be true...never even heard of that before till I joined this site??? And I have been around. somebody please fill me in.
D
desertdeer
Guest
i have tried pyrodex and 777 loose and pelletized. i have found the best accuracy with 777. 1 1/2 in at 100 with 115 grains of loose and 130 grains pellets. so i chose pellets for the ease of shooting.
point being try everything and use whatever is to your advantage
point being try everything and use whatever is to your advantage
hossblur
Long Time Member
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I still say there is a difference between hunting and shooting, and loose powder, laying on your back with a horizontal gun, or in the wind, or with shaking hands because of buck fever, pellets are the best choice. Your shooting a gun that throws out a huge chunk of lead with an ignition source that isn't the most efficient(there is a reason that we went from black powder to cartridges). If your a target shooter on a bench, great. You can be a ballistics geek. If you need that quick follow shot because you pulled it, or got excited, "plop, plop, fizz, fizz" is the best method. That follow up needs to hit a target the size of a paper plate, 1/2 spreads aren't that important if you ask me, speed and complete charge are.
When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
B
booner76
Guest
That makes about........that much sense.
