Piers Morgan vs Alex Jones....

elks96

elks96

Long Time Member
Messages
3,801

Why do people not understand that there is no option. We either honor the constitution or we don't. If we don't honor our constitution, then it will all fall apart either fast or slow.
 
Idiots like Alex Jones are going to scare off any allies gun owners have by acting completely and totally irrational on national TV.

Even Justice Scalia understands that the States can regulate guns and that is perfectly allowable and he further says that the Heller decision doesn't automatically apply to high capacity clips or Assault weapons regardless of how one defines that.

Using scare tactics and scorched earth policy of the NRA is going to cost legal gun owners more than it will ever cost criminals.

Keep drinking the NRA Koolaid but all that does is move the middle of the country away from supporting your position.

Alex Jones most likely couldn't pass a mental test to own a weapon.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 03:49PM (MST)[p]No, I believe that restricting the "types" of guns we can own is absolutely unconstitutional. (Our rights have already being infringed upon).

The second amendment was not put in place to protect "hunting and sporting" type weapons.

In my opinion, the point of the second ammendment was to ensure that the people COULD posses "military type" weapons to be able to fight back against an oppressive government. The constitution was written by people that just overthrew an oppressive government...not ones that just got back their ability to duck hunt!

Just because the supreme court says something does not make it right (heck, every decision being 4-3 ought to tell you something). No state should be able to decide to what amount it would like to infringe on my constitutional right.
 
Well you need to read the decisions on gun control handed down by the supreme court. The Heller decision said that you have a right to own a weapon for self defense. It did nothing to not allow states and perhaps the federal government to impose another AWB.

I guess you never read the Constitution. Any power not enumerated is reserved for the several states. That is why there are already more restrictive laws in some states and not others.

If you believe nut jobs like Alex Jones are going further your gun rights by acting like a total wack job you are going to be very disappointed.

No a Supreme Court Decision does make anything right but if a law is duly passed, signed and upheld by the USSC then it is legal within our founding document. Right and legal are two different things.

Your opinion isn't going to matter much if gun owners cannot sit down and defend their position without resorting to screaming, yelling and ranting. All that is going to do is cost guys like me who love guns, have owned and would own again AR's and AK's. By acting like there is NO WAY government could take high cap magazines off the market you will end up just like the Republicans in the House.

You are entitled to your own opinions but the 2nd Amendment also covers a "well regulated militia". The right to have a gun for self defense was upheld in Heller, the next test will be what is a "well regulated militia".

Staking out the ground you, Alex Jones and the NRA are will only lead to more restrictions on my gun rights not less.

Nemont
 
I watched just the first several minutes of that video and had to turn it off because the only thought I had was exactly as you stated. That is, I wonder how many peoople that might have been on our side who watched that were compeltely shocked at that nut case hollering and ranting like a complete idiot! He did about as much to help us as some of the chit that the Nuge comes up with!
 
I listened to the debate and was disappointed in Alex Jones on how he behaved. He could have argued the points in a better way than acting the way he did.
 
Alex Jones is a nutjob and is doing nothing for our cause except giving the gun lobby ammunition.
Nemont if you think we don't need the NRA you're nuts, name one other gun lobby with any clout, there is none. We need them and they need as many members as possible to fight the crap thats coming, believe me its coming and it won't be pretty.

Check this out.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEg1VNfX3o>
 
Wow, people like that are destroying our image. I think they purposely invite people like that on the show to hurt gun owners images. What a moron Alex Jones is
 
What image?? Get real, thanks to Piers Morgan and his ilk, the image a majority of americans have of gun owners is that of a mass murder. Follow their arguments. Ok. now "assualt" rifles and 30 shot clips are out. I am turning in my ar? Is someone coming to get it? How about my 25 shot 10/22 clip?

The only image we need to portray is that ZERO new gun laws are acceptable. ZERO.

GUN OWNERS, quit fighting on the margins(30 shot clips are out, so am I safer because everyone has 29 shot clips?) We already went down this road, we got columbine, we got the LA bankrobber shoot out, I had to buy a bunch of 10 shot clips for the 10/22. Don't buy the argument, what Piers Morgan is for is outright gun bans, otherwise why does he keep bringing up England? We have let the media pin Sandy Hook on us, it is already illegal for that dude to have those guns, illegal for him to kill his mom, kill those kids, enter that school with a weapon, etc, etc, NEW gun laws are meant only to disarm you and me.

Alex Jones is Alex Jones. Piers Morgan got his azz handed to him by Ted Nugent, who was polite, engaging, but firm about guns, and Piers had nothing. I would rather have Alex Jones as my neighbor than Piers Morgan. Right now, anyone in public supporting gun owners is an ally, everyone else isn't.

You don't need PR and image consultants, we simply need to say NO!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13 AT 10:09AM (MST)[p]

So in order to win people to support gun rights the best way is to go on national TV and act like a raving lunatic, not explain why guns are part of our nation and all the other important facts.

Who cares what Piers Morgan thinks about anything, all Alex Jones did was reinforce to those on the fence that that gun owners are lunatics.

If we don't need PR and Image consultants then why does the NRA spend so much of their members money on PR and Image consultants?

Just saying NO! without any further discussion marginalizes gun owners and allows the crazies on the other side to gain traction. We live in a representative republic where everyone needs public support to further their agenda. It is no different for gun owners.

In addition the Courts have left open the right of the several states to impose control as they see fit. The only thing Heller actually did was codify your right to a firearm it did nothing to limit states from imposing other restrictions.

If the only answer from gun owners is raving, screaming lunatics like Alex Jones, then we are going to lose.

How many people do you suppose Alex Jones scared $h!tless with his idiotic reference to another revolution?

Also the Us Vs Them attitude will also result in more restrictive gun laws.

Nemont
 
I have no idea who Alex Jones is. It looked to me like he was hired by anti gun people to look like an idiot. I couldn't even watch the entire video. It's like alot of the hunting shows on TV, very poor representation.
 
I'd also never heard of the guy and got so disgusted with his screaming and ranting that I shut it off after a couple minutes. That is the kind of person that needs to keep their trap shut because he may be in our camp, but he isn't doing us one damn bit of good going off like he did on National TV like that! A stark raving lunatic is probably what most everyone who watched that show got from that jerk!
 
>I'd also never heard of the
>guy and got so disgusted
>with his screaming and ranting
>that I shut it off
>after a couple minutes.
>That is the kind of
>person that needs to keep
>their trap shut because he
>may be in our camp,
>but he isn't doing us
>one damn bit of good
>going off like he did
>on National TV like that!
> A stark raving lunatic
>is probably what most everyone
>who watched that show got
>from that jerk!

+1

I'm as pro-gun as they come but after seeing a little of that dude I was about ready to turn my guns in! Well, not really but the guy isn't speaking for me when he rants and threatens like that!

Zeke
 
Piers Morgan is an anti-American tool. He brought Alex Jones onto his set solely to advance his cause. The war started long ago and this is just a little skirmish leading up to the real battle. The only question is will it be fought in the Capitol or on the streets.
 
So you are prepared to shoot at and if needed to kill American troops?

Who do you blame for Alex Jones ranting and raving? Piers Morgan or Alex Jones?

Who cares what Piers Morgan thinks.

Please explain how any deal on gun control that bans anything gets through the House right now? The House is going to wait for the Senate so first the Senate has to come to some deal that would allow both a cloture vote and it to pass a majority. That would mean that the measure would most likely be very limited in scope because guys like Max Baucus will not want to have his finger prints on any control measure.

Then IF the Senate passes anything then the House gets their bite at the apple and IF anything gets through the House on gun control it would have to go to conference.

I guarantee you that those people who think Alex Jones did a good thing on the Piers Morgan show are going to be disappointed if they continue to put people like that out there to represent their views.

Nemont
 
"I'd also never heard of the guy and got so disgusted with his screaming and ranting that I shut it off after a couple minutes. That is the kind of person that needs to keep their trap shut because he may be in our camp, but he isn't doing us one damn bit of good going off like he did on National TV like that! A stark raving lunatic is probably what most everyone who watched that show got from that jerk!"


I agree with you here TOPGUN!


I could only watch until he started jumping down Pierce's throat... unprovoked and looking like an idiot.


We need to let the anti wackos rant and rave and look like wackos... we don't need that kind of "representation"!
 
Keep drinking liberal koolaide Nemont... I am sure congress would like us all to just lay down and believe they will take care of it......NOT. I've said it before this will be forced down our throats just like "gay marraige" is being forced on EVERY american wheather you like it or not. Big changes in gun control are coming. What happened to ...We the People ?

If my sons were still active USMC and they had orders to take guns from americans I sure hope they would disobey those orders !!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13 AT 06:05PM (MST)[p]I bet my voting record is as conservative as anyone on this board. I just don't believe in made up fantasy world stuff. The only kool aid being consumed is by those who willing believe ole Wayne's rhetoric that they are coming for all the guns

The NRA loves the shootings. It is good for their marketing campaign

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13 AT 06:12PM (MST)[p]"The NRA loves the shootings. It is good for their marketing campaign"
Nemont


I was basicly in your corner until you posted those two BS sentences!!!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13
>AT 06:12?PM (MST)
>
>"The NRA loves the shootings. It
>is good for their marketing
>campaign"
>Nemont
>
>
>I was basicly in your corner
>until you posted those two
>BS sentences!!!

It's all good. I didn't ask you to have my back. Prove me wrong the the NRA has prospered of the blood of the kids at Sandy Hook and I won't post again
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13
>>AT 06:12?PM (MST)
>>
>>"The NRA loves the shootings. It
>>is good for their marketing
>>campaign"
>>Nemont
>>
>>
>>I was basicly in your corner
>>until you posted those two
>>BS sentences!!!
>
>It's all good. I didn't
>ask you to have my
>back. Prove me wrong
>the the NRA has prospered
>of the blood of the
>kids at Sandy Hook and
>I won't post again
That was a pretty lame statement Nemont
 
If anybody is using that shooting to their advantage it would be Obama and all the Libs, but I hate to say that even more than thinking it!
 
WOW ! I read lots of post & never say much , but to read how this is dividing us gun owners is is very disappointing , they are winning as we argue .
 
Its hard to come in here and defend Alex. He looked unhinged, but were his arguments wrong? What he said was 100% on the money whether you liked the presentation or not. I prefered how uncle ted took piers apart, but alex wasn't wrong. In short, where do the libs think this ends up? At some point a cop is going to have to come to your house and take your guns, or this is all about nothing. And, Alex is right, there will be a violent reaction to the forced confiscation.

As for congress, did I miss something or didn't Biden say they are looking at Executive directives? For those who haven't noticed, our "conservative" congress just raised your taxes, spent another 4 trillion.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
This has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. The sole purpose of the NRA is to lobby on behalf of the gun industry. That's right. To make millions for the industry regardless if the product is safe or not.

Eldorado
 
What we are seeing is gun owners such as Nemont, Dude, zigga, and Eldorado placing themselfs in line with the anti gunners and taking a position that may hinder our gun rights from within.
Several of them have a deep seated hatred of the NRA for one reason or another and allow that hatred to support the anti gunners in the long run.

As for the Nemonts statement about the NRA prospering at the expense of the school shooting in Conn. He is right they have prospered by gaining over 100,000 new members. Which is no different then the American Red Cross prospering via more donations after a major flood or other disaster. I do find offense in the way he stated it as if the NRA may have rejoiced in the shooting as a means to make more money. If he intended it that way, then he is also an enemy of all honest gun owners.

As for Jones or Uncle Ted being a spokesman for gun owners. I have not seen any vote where the majority of gun owners have appointed them to that position. It appears they appointed themselfs by jumping into the lime light for their 15 minutes of fame. I do not considered them my spokesman and wished that Charlton Heston was still around to argue the points with the press and public.

Our left of center gun owners seem to feel that the anti gunners are just going after the black rifles and hi-cap mags. They are blatant fools if they believe that is all that is going to happen.

Yes we now have protection from the 2nd. ammendment, but that does not protect us from losing certain firearms and magazines which will probably happen with the assault rifles and hi cap mags. It also does not protect us from our lawmakers making new laws to restrict online ammo sales which will mean higher prices on some ammo by shopping local. Setting a certain amount of ammo you can buy at one time. Even having to pay fees to register yourself in order to purchase ammo after a background check. I wonder if Nemont, Dude, Ziggy, and Eldorado would feel very smut if they had to pay a yearly fee of 50-100 bucks a year to be registered in order to purchase their 40 dollar box of hunting ammo for their bolt action rifle or shotgun to shoot ducks with.

The anti gunners big scream is that assault rifles like the AR-15, Ak-47 is too much like firearms reserved for the military and combat. Well pump action and semi auto shotguns were also used by the military with devastating effects in close combat. So devastating in trench warfare that during WW1 the Germans stated they would execute any American GI that they captured carring a model-97 trench shotgun. Does anyone think these shotguns make become the next target for banning down the line as "assault weapons".

Then we now come to the great 1911 and other semi auto pistols. These could also be classified as assault weapons as they have been used by the military for over a 100 years. They would fall into the same description as assault weapons just like the so called black rifles.

In 10 seconds I can fire 8 aimed rounds from one mag, reload another mag and fire off another 8 rounds and hit every target at a distance of 7-10 yards in that 10 second time limit. I know guys that are faster then that.

As for me, I do not own any black rifle or assault rifle and have not owned one for over 20 years when I sold my Ruger Mini-14,but I will be damned if I take the stance that Nemont, Dude, Ziggy, and Eldorado takes and sell out my fellow hunters and gun owners. I know that this is not just about "assault rifles" and hi cap mags, it will go further and you can bet your dollar that the liberal anti gunners in goverment are huddled together to come up with ideas to restrict our guns and ammo that will get around the 2nd. ammendment. The NRA knows this and any law professor will tell you that their is ways around the 2nd. ammendment that will restrict many firearms and ammo and end up costing the gun owner more money to enjoy his hobby and firearms rights.

Nemont, Dude, Ziggy, Eldorado are our enemies as much, if not more then Feinstein, Obama and any other liberal anti gun person. They are the wolves in sheep clothing that is among us and should know better then the uninformed average voting person that we have today.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 07:27AM (MST)[p]>This has nothing to do with
>the 2nd Amendment. The sole
>purpose of the NRA is
>to lobby on behalf of
>the gun industry. That's right.
>To make millions for the
>industry regardless if the product
>is safe or not.
>
>Eldorado


You are so wrong with those statements that you should have not even made the post. Sure the gun and ammo manufacturers benefit from the NRA lobbying for it's 4 million plus members because they are a part of the NRA. At least they are paying their dues and supporting the 2nd Amendment so ALL of us, including you and the other gun owners who don't even belong to the organization are free to possess firearms of their choice! At least they are standing tall among us and are standing for their right to live and prosper in a free America. Your statement about "regardless of whether the product is safe or not" sounds exactly like the antis blaming the gun for the crime. Nothing is unsafe about these firearms that are out in the marketplace. It's the occasional lunatic that uses them that is out there and shouldn't be! Several of you need to take a long journey to Australia or the UK with your thinking because gun owners like you are worse than the average person who doesn't know a rifle from a shotgun. You should be ashamed of yourself for even entering the discussion with no thought process before you post on a hunting website wanting to restrict what others can have just because you don't like them. Incidentally, I have no use for them and am a bolt or lever action purist myself, but I'll be damned if I'm going to tell my neighbor that may have an AR that he needs to get rid of it.
 
RELH
Way to explain it in a sensible way, Ziggy, Dude, Nemont and Eldo don't deserve the right to own a gun, they are the enemy as much as the anti's are.
 
The question should be, will the American troops, etc be willing to shoot they're fellow civilian Americans who would refuse to give up there 2nd amendment rights. If they do, I believe alot of Americans would not have a issue with defending there rights just as the 2nd amendment was designed to defend against.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 08:51AM (MST)[p]So now I am an "enemy" of gun owners simply because I don't parrot the NRA propaganda. I guess the NRA membership means that you no longer have to deal with any reality, including math. Touting 4 million members of NRA, big deal that only means you are out numbers 4 to 1 by illegal aliens alone.

320,000,000 people in this country and 1.25% of them belong to the NRA. If anything the NRA members should be looking to people like me to be their ally. I am strongly pro gun, A combat veteran, I have given thousands of dollars, probably tens of thousands over the years to conservative candidates and causes. My single sin in the eyes of the NRA Kool Aid drinkers is not worshiping at the feet of Wayne Lapierre.

Got news for those of you that believe I am the enemy of yours, you don't truly love the Constitution you supposedly are beating your chest about, if you did you would welcome a differing opinion with out branding fellow Americans as "enemies". Having differing view points IS the American way, period.

I never once said I supported banning any weapons, I merely pointed out the political realities of the process and the FACT that nothing will get through the House. Instead of debating the facts of the current state of gun control and looking at facts, merely not belonging to the NRA is grounds to be consider an Enemy.

You NRA members are going to dig your own grave on gun control by keeping the scorched earth policy of ole Wayne.

I am forwarding this to all my brothers who I served with in combat to let them know that simply having a difference of opinion in these United States gets one labeled an enemy.

Thanks for making it crystal clear what kind of lunatics the NRA attracts.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 08:54AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 08:53?AM (MST)

No, Nemont and those mentioned are not to blame for anything, they also arent the "enemy". Its just that in your delusional world, unless you're a mouth-breathing NRA wingnut like the Nuge or this d-bag in the video...you're considered an "enemy" of gun owners??? What a joke.

See the first post to find your "enemy" and catch a clue...if thats possible.

People need to quit being followers and start being leaders when it comes to all kinds of issues, including gun control.

I dont need, or want, guys like Nugent and Alex Jones representing my second amendment rights.

I'd much rather have an articulate, intelligent person like Nemont represent me on the second...all day long.
 
In case you haven't noticed before you posted, most of us deplore the way that Jones went on that rant and also don't care for the "Nuge" to go off ranting like he does many times. That style does not get us anywhere and makes you guys and most watching say just what you did and put us all in that stupid category. They are two people and are NOT the voice of the NRA even though they may be members. The NRA is adamant about one thing and that is if you give these Lib fanatics one thing it will keep right on going piece by piece. Nemont is so sure that nothing is going to pass in the coming weeks. Many also said the same thing about Obamacare that was forced down the throsts of US citizens when well over 60% disliked the plan. Most Legislators didn't even know what they were voting for in that telephone book thick Bill. Hell, even Pelosi said to just pass the friggin thing and then they could go read it, LOL! The way it is in DC now with Obama not having to worry about being reelected the ##### is going to hit the fan even if he has to bypass Congress and pull some more of his "Executive" shenanigans to get what he wants and if you followed his votes when he was in IL it isn't just ARs and big clips!!! You guys can go by yourselves to DC and I'm sure they'll all listen to you up there and not a group that has over 4 million members and just added another 100,000 in the last three weeks.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 10:09AM (MST)[p]
Topgun,

Who is the current speaker of the House? Which party controls the House?

Send your money to the NRA, that is your choice. I find their tactics to be dishonest and in the end not in the best interest of all gun owners. 300,000,000 guns in the U.S. only 4,000,000 NRA members and you all are branding anyone who dares question the NRA as enemies, regardless of their actual beliefs on the issue.

I would say given the fact that that there are 300,000,000 guns and only 4,000,000 members that the VAST majority of gun owners are not NRA members.

Good luck marching with your 4 million members vs the remaining voting public. It shows again that once you join the NRA math no longer matters.

I am pro gun, and pro 2nd Amendment. I also understand that President Obama, who I didn't vote for, was not elected King. Nothing is going to happen that is radical. Even if Diane Feinstein got her entire bill through the Senate, which won't happen, it is DOA in the House.

Just a quick civics lesson, the reason Pelosi forced the Obama care bill through is because she didn't have the votes in House to get it through regular order. She had to have an up or down vote on the Senate version without debate. If you believe that Boehner is going to rubber stamp a gun control bill passed by the Senate without debate or amendments you need some real help.

Obama cannot reinstate the AWB without congressional action. In addition there are several red state democrats who know the control issue is kryponite to their political careers.

I will make a bet with you night now, there will not be an AWB, there may be a restriction on high capacity magazines and increased back ground checks. I will put up a 10 day hunt in North East Montana, I will host you at my house or hotel of your choice, buy all your ammo, booze and food, provide all the transportation and hunt with you for pheasants, huns, shaprtail, ducks, geese (I have all the equipment and access), deer and antelope (if you draw the tag) 90% of the access will be on private lands, that there will not be a renewed AWB. So put your money where your mouth is.

Nemont (aka the enemy)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 10:14AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 10:14?AM (MST)

topgun,

Whether you like it or not, the NRA absolutely IS being represented by Nugent and this Alex Jones.

Its not a one-way street, the NRA represents its members and the members represent the NRA. No different than an employee/employer relationship.

Guys like both are the absolute reason I'll never join the NRA.

The NRA does NOTHING to put the brakes on guys like Ted Nugent simply because he sells crazy and NRA memberships to mouth-breathers.

Theres a reason why so few gun owners belong to the NRA...take a good look in the mirror and you'll see exactly why that is. Its not that most hunters have any kind of fundamental problem with the Second, I'd bet 99% are ardent supporters of same.

But, when all they see is scare tactics and ranting lunatics like nugent, Wayne L., this Jones guy...it turns them off to the NRA. Theres a price to be paid on how you portray yourself and who you allow to represent your club. The NRA has been paying that price of admission with their "leadership" for as long as I can remember.

But, why should good ol' Wayne Lapierre do anything more than he already is? The guy makes a great living peddling fear to his base. He has what he wants, makes a fat salary, has lunch in D.C. everyday, a nice office suite, a summer home or four...lifes good for Wayne. His lack of vision and leadership for the NRA is telling...too bad guys like you cant read "sign". Whats even worse, is that the NRA membership sets the bar so low for their CEO and allows him to keep his job. WOW! If the best my CEO could do is gain the trust of 4 million of 300,000,000...I'd be finding a replacement...and quick.

Keep up the good work.
 
What do we do Buzz, quit our NRA membership and send the money to our liberal congressmen ? Take the NRA out of the picture what do you suggest we...concerned gun owners... do? I wish I had as much faith in the government as you and NeMont do. The only people I have been hearing on tv or in the media are the guys mentioned. No one else is saying a thing and when the govt. gets it's foot in the door the door is going to open all the way. I heard a govenors speech the other day.... not only does he want AWP and high cap. magazine ban he also wants no internet ammo sales, and a NIX check when you try to buy ammo in a store.
 
Jodog,

Show me where I said I had faith in government. I told you how it works, tell me where I am wrong. If you are so sure this is going to pass let's bet. You can put up what ever you choose and I will stand by my offer.

It doesn't matter what people want, it matters what can pass. Yes there are idiots on the left that would ban all guns, how successful have they been? We had an AWB before, so the door was open yet today we all have more guns. I never once said on this thread that I support an AWB.

Let's bet, unless you don't believe everything the NRA is telling you would actually happen.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 10:36AM (MST)[p]jodog,

I already lead you to water...I cant force you to drink.

A great start would be finding appropriate NRA leadership that has the vision to take the NRA where it needs to go.

Its currently worse than a joke. Saying the NRA is stuck in a rut is perhaps the understatement of the last 20 years.
 
How do you guys propose that we shut up ranting lunatics like this Jones guy or Nugent at times? How about nuts that have shows like Morgan and Limbaugh? It's free country and there is no way they can be stopped whether they are an NRA member or not and they obviously don't help our cause. I'm not sure anything will pass with the goofy bunch we have up in DC and, yes, I know who is Speaker of the House, Majority and Minority leaders in both, etc. The true answer to your low ratio of NRA members to total gun owners is probably as simple as everything else in this country and that's the fact that the majority are apathetic towards almost everything and/or don't think anything can ever happen that seems so far out. That is why I brought up Obamacare going through, regardless of how you mentioned it got passed. You may be surprised at the number of Legislators that could cross the aisle and vote something in that you say doesn't have a wing and a prayer. All I'm trying to get through to you two is that the NRA and it's clout are the only thing that has kept us where we are right now and our only chance in the future with the power they wield up in DC whether you like some of the ways it goes about things or not! "United we stand and divided we fall" is an appropriate saying for this whole deal. If you don't believe that the NRA is basicly the only thing that has kept our guns safe from the nut jobs in DC, then you must have your heads in the sand.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 11:01AM (MST)[p]So topgun,

Now it is a free country and everyone has a right to speak their mind but if I dare not belong to the NRA I am an enemy to other gun owners. How come the Nuge and Alex Jones can act like crazies and they are just sharing their opinions but since they are NRA members it's all good and guys like me are your enemy?

Has the NRA come out and told Alex Jones that he is hurting their image? The Nuge is a director of the NRA I believe. Why do you suppose Wayne Lapierre has not publicly stated that neither speak for him and his members? I could give 100,000 new memberships reasons. $$$$$

If the motto is "United we stand and Divided we fall" how come there are NRA members on here who have no problem saying I am their enemy simply because I don't belong to there group. Apparently the motto is "United by what the NRA says, all others are enemies" instead.

I state earlier that the NRA has done good things, I have a personal dislike of Wayne Lapierre and his fear mongering and in the end I believe the NRA will cost me the rights to my guns by their tactics. They have neither a majority of gun owners and they represent only 1.25% of the our population. If the NRA is the only reason we will keep our guns then we are already sunk.

Nemont
 
Buzz, NeMont....I have little faith in our liberal govt. I travel all across this country and have for many, many years and I've seen how it has changed for the worse over the years...I still love the USA (NeMont your not the only combat vet here also have 2 sons that wear the combat action ribbon) but I'm really loosing faith in the govt.(remember ...We the People) and don't want to see our govt. tear it down more and I feel once the american people give them the green light, or they just take it... because they think they will do them right ...it's over and Piers Morgan may very well have his wish that America be like England....Gun Free someday.
PS...I hope you're both right I just doubt you are.
 
Hey Jodog,
Never claimed I was the only combat vet, I was labeled your enemy for simply not belonging to the NRA. Did you and your sons serve in order to have a country where we can't have differing opinions? I didn't serve for that reason.

Let's bet if you are so sure I am wrong. If you bet with me I will extend the invitation to come hunt for 10 days all at my expense to your sons who served and yourself and make a family trip to hunt together with you and your sons at my expense. Let's make a wager on whether the AWB is reinstated or not.

If you missed it here is what I am willing to put up: I will make a bet with you night now, there will not be an AWB, there may be a restriction on high capacity magazines and increased back ground checks. I will put up a 10 day hunt in North East Montana, I will host you at my house or hotel of your choice, buy all your ammo, booze and food, provide all the transportation and hunt with you for pheasants, huns, shaprtail, ducks, geese (I have all the equipment and access), deer and antelope (if you draw the tag) 90% of the access will be on private lands, that there will not be a renewed AWB.

Thanks for you and your sons service. Let's bet. You have zero to lose.

Nemont
 
I'm not saying you're my enemy, but you're sure nnot doing anything to help the cause of gun owners from that sounds of your posts, and incidentally, I also did 3 years in the service so we can all have our own opinions! All I'm saying is that you're using a few excuses for your dislike of the NRA when they are doing fantastic things all over the country from the kids programs right on up to fighting for our gun rights. I had the same feelings you and BuzzH express and dropped out for a few years until all this garbage got going strong again a couple years ago so I joined again. I don't disagree with what you're saying about some of what the NRA does, but I will repeat again that there is no other group out there with the clout they have. If you don't think they are the biggest worry that all the Legislators have when it comes to anything involving guns that comes up in DC, you again have your head in the sand. Even that may not be enough this time after that mass shooting last month.
 
What I am seeing is several self proclaimed gun owners who are constantly bad mouthing the NRA and the way it is run. Yet they claim to be solid gun rights advocates and support us gun owners, but are always damning the NRA.

Fine! if you do not like the NRA, put your action where your mouth is if you are such ardent gun right advocates. Start up your own organization to protect our gun rights. If you are not willing to do that, stop your preaching and come back when you can offer something of a more positive note. As some guys on this forum might say in more crude way, if you can not do the walk, STFU.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 12:34PM (MST)[p]RELH

You should take your own advice.

I guess nobody wants a free 10 day hunt. No takers on my bet.


Nemont
 
Hey NeMont that would be a nice bet to win !! We don't need to bet even though I think my odds are pretty good. Like I said before I hope you and Buzz are right......
Thanks for your service too.
 
Wheew! Are you guys done? I just want to say thanks to all of you for serving our country. Also I still think Alex Jones acted like a Jack Ass.
 
Nemont
I'm not a veteran but my dad served in WW II, he bought lifetime memberships in the NRA for both of my sons before he died, he said the NRA is the only organization with any clout looking out for the gun owners of America. Leadership changes every few years, Lapierre isn't going to be there forever, new leadership will come and go but the mission of the NRA will not change. Show me any other organization that has as much clout fighting for our right to bear arms and I will join, until then I will support them any way I can so that they can keep up the fight, and thanks for your service.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]
>RELH
>Way to explain it in a
>sensible way, Ziggy, Dude, Nemont
>and Eldo don't deserve the
>right to own a gun,
>they are the enemy as
>much as the anti's are.
>

So Apex am I your enemy and don't deserve the right to own guns?

I am curious why you feel you get to choose which American citizens the bill of rights applies to based upon whether or not the join an organization. I don't see that qualification anywhere in the Constitution.

Using the same logic nobody should be afforded 1st Amendment rights unless they join the ACLU.

I could care less what opinion guys like RELH have of me, he showed what kind of classless guy he is by calling a fellow American citizen, who is a gun supporter and has been a gun owner since I was 6 years old an enemy to gun owners. He is meaningless to the debate due to the idiocy of his stance. I have done no harm to gun owners compared to the scare tactics Wayne Lapierre had employed, IMO.




I admire all veterans and have a soft spot in my hear for WWII veterans. They were are a national treasure.

Nemont
 
Either Milk River Whitetails or Mule Deer either on private or down in the breaks. Whichever you prefer.

The bet is that there may be increased background checks and/or reduce magazine capacity but no AWB.

What do you want to put in the bet?

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]depends on what whether you want to shoot multiples or are a one shot one kill kind of hunter. Bring it along, lots of song dogs around and I love calling them into anybody willing to shoot them.

What do you want to put up for a bet?

Nemont
 
This has been a good read. I was an NRA member for years. I let my membership lapse, but not really for reasons related to the groups policy at the time. Now, I am struggling with whether or not to re-join. I guess my conundrum is, do I join even though I do not totally agree 100% with the current policies and views of the NRA, or do I not join and somehow feel like I am doing nothing to protect my rights? What I DO believe, is that gun owners as a whole, NRA supporters or not, need to somehow remain solidly together. NeMont, I'm no way taking your bet, but I'd sure like to hunt over there with ya. mtmuley
 
mtmuley---You are experiencing the same thoughts and possibly even anxiety like I did a couple years ago and I finally decided that I'm not perfect and neither is the NRA, but they are our best bet with the clout they have to help us keep the firearms we love so much. I went ahead and joined for a year and then renewed for three years not too long ago and just sent them another $50 to fight this battle that is brewing as we are discussing this on this thread. I suggest you do the same!
 
Nemont,
That would be a fools bet. The SCOTUS ruled long ago that EO's cannot exceed Constitutional authority or stand in violation of any legislation passed by Congress, and that Congress has the power to overturn them.

In 1989 daddy Bush used an EO to ban certain imports ONLY by citing the guncontrol act of the late 60's.

The Clinton AWB got passed was because it had a sunset clause in it stating it would be renewed if the legislation showed it reduced crime, the renewal never made it out of the House.

I love shooting Coyotes with it, great fun especially the runners. And it is highly accurate. Again we need to talk trade no bet. Got any hunting interests?
 
Topgun I really doubt you will get Nemont to contribute to the NRA as he seems to have a deep seated dislike of the organization.

Nemont is trying to convince everyone that he is not the enemy of gunowners with his public statements concerning the NRA. I guess he does not believe that the anti gunners get overjoyed with hearing gun owners make statements that he has made concerning the NRA.

They jump at the chance to show that so called gun owners do not support the NRA and that just shows that the NRA is such a radical organization that gun owners like Nemont, Ziggy, BuzzH and Eldorado will not support them. Then they feed that information to the fence setters to convince them not to listen to the NRA and let us get together to ban the evil guns.

No! Nemont will not admit to being the enemy of gun owners, but his kind does more damage to all gun owners by making public statements that he has made trying to convince others that he can not support the NRA and the NRA is just a lobby for the gun makers. That is like saying all gun buyers are a lobby for the gun makers as we support them by buying their guns.

If this was 1776, Nemont would have been branded a TORY for giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Except this time it is the liberal anti gunners instead of the British trying to curtail or even take away our rights.

Nemont as for you playing the VET card, Lee Harvey Oswald, and the Oklahoma City bomber were also vets. Get something else to excuse your statements. Most of us old farts are all vets and we do not hold that up to explain our position and gain support as you tried to do.

RELH
 
Love water fowling. Would love shooting something other than mallards

Greatly enjoy upland bird hunting as well.


Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-13 AT 12:05PM (MST)[p]>Topgun I really doubt you will
>get Nemont to contribute to
>the NRA as he seems
>to have a deep seated
>dislike of the organization.
>
> Nemont is trying
>to convince everyone that he
>is not the enemy of
>gunowners with his public statements
>concerning the NRA. I guess
>he does not believe that
>the anti gunners get overjoyed
>with hearing gun owners make
>statements that he has made
>concerning the NRA.
>
> They jump at
>the chance to show that
>so called gun owners do
>not support the NRA and
>that just shows that the
>NRA is such a radical
>organization that gun owners like
>Nemont, Ziggy, BuzzH and Eldorado
>will not support them. Then
>they feed that information to
>the fence setters to convince
>them not to listen to
>the NRA and let us
>get together to ban the
>evil guns.
>
> No! Nemont will
>not admit to being the
>enemy of gun owners, but
>his kind does more damage
>to all gun owners by
>making public statements that he
>has made trying to convince
>others that he can not
>support the NRA and the
>NRA is just a lobby
>for the gun makers. That
>is like saying all gun
>buyers are a lobby for
>the gun makers as we
>support them by buying their
>guns. I
>
> If this was 1776,
>Nemont would have been branded
>a TORY for giving aid
>and comfort to the enemy.
>Except this time it is
>the liberal anti gunners instead
>of the British trying to
>curtail or even take away
>our rights.
>
>Nemont as for you playing the
>VET card, Lee Harvey Oswald,
>and the Oklahoma City bomber
>were also vets. Get something
>else to excuse your statements.
>Most of us old farts
>are all vets and we
>do not hold that up
>to explain our position and
>gain support as you tried
>to do.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>RELH
>
Pure class. You should change your depends before you post as the crap in your diaper makes you a total @ss.


I didn't play any card and feel free to lump with criminals once I commit crime not before. I have not tried to convince anybody not to join the NRA. If you want to line the pockets of Wayne Lapierre good on you. I get to enjoy my 2nd Amendment rights by virtue of my American citizenship not membership in any group. If you want to believe I am your enemy fine. Jimmy crack corn

Nemont
 
Nemont;

Thank you for your juvenile response. It sheds more light on your character, or should I say lack of character. Bottom line You do more harm to gun owners then any anti gun person who is willing to stand up on their feet and admit they do not like guns.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-13 AT 05:33PM (MST)[p]The only moron lacking character is you, anyone who claims that an American citizen doesn't deserve Constitutional rights simply by not belonging to an organization doesn't love freedom.

You show your colors as a lunatic that won't rest until they turn the majority of Americans against gun owners and drive moderate allies off to the other side.

The Grumpy old man bit becomes you, as your time has passed and the country you are leaving the next generation is a wreck, thanks for all you haven't done.

Nemont
 
Just this go around, by the next one RELH will have convinced enough people that guns need more regulation. I can't control the lunatics in the NRA.

Unless you want put up something good and then I will consider it. Nobody has yet offered to take the bet or even a trade for anything.

Nemont
 
Come on Nemont! Your'e getting a little ridiculous in your posts and now are calling NRA members lunatics! What little credibility you may have had in your arguments quickly went in the dumper with that statement!
 
Topgun,

Do you think I care what a bunch of guys on an internet forum think of me? Jimmy Crack corn.



Nemont
 
If you had any self respect and even want anyone to look at your views you should and with that last post you can take your corn and stick it where the sun don't shine!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-13 AT 06:41PM (MST)[p]

Topgun,
Not a single person called RELH out for labeling a fellow American, who is on the gun rights side an enemy. In fact others chimed in and nobody had the guts to call BS, at that point it matters not a single bit what I said or did on this thread.

Then the same poster wants to question my character. Please, it shows what kind of cowards inhabit the internet.

Just wait for when you need some allies and you guys have ran them all off by labeling anyone not in the NRA an enemy. The NRA only has the ear of the Republicans, Republicans have become politically inept. So keep labeling everyone else enemies and good luck in your bunker.


Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-13 AT 08:29PM (MST)[p]You obviously didn't read all the posts put up because I said right in one of mine that I DID NOT consider you an enemy!!! See my post #47! I agreed with RELH to a point, but that was going too far and you can make your apology to me any time you'd like!!!
 
Nemont; Do you always twist things around when your precious ego has been questioned. No where did I state that you do not deserve your Constitutional rights because you care not to be a member of the NRA. That is your right and I respect that right.

What I accused you of is your blantant anti NRA statements while being a gun owner that only serves to fuel the fires with the anti gunners. They can and most likely will use statements given by gun owners like you and Eldorado, Piper, to try and convince persons that may be neutral, that the NRA is a radical violent loving organization and should not be listen too. When that happens, gun owners are on the losing end.

It has alot more clout coming from gun owners. A good example is Eldorado and Dude themselfs posting threads on this site to show that some "conservatives" are against the NRA and gun owners fit right into that equation and using those statements to shore up their beliefs on gun control. Along with you and your statements.

If you can not handle that, maybe you better get out of the kitchen and think about what you are saying on a public forum while trying to divide gun owners. I repeat it again, you are not a friend of gun owners, but a Judas goat. I stand by that based on your previous statements in these forums that anyone can look up and see where you really stand.

I am not going to argue with you, as I already know where you stand and nothing within reason will not change your stance. End of subject.

RELH
 
Topgun, you might as well think about leaving it along. The big fish in the little pond has his ego hurt. Now he is trying to twist it that I am calling all non NRA gun owners the "enemy".

The only ones I am calling the enemy is Nemont, BuzzH, Piper, and Eldorado for them posting their venom trying to divide gun owners. There is many non NRA members on this forum who are not the enemy, but they are not coming on a public forum and making the statements these four are doing and giving the anti gunners more ammo to use against us.
 
>RELH
>Way to explain it in a
>sensible way, Ziggy, Dude, Nemont
>and Eldo don't deserve the
>right to own a gun,
>they are the enemy as
>much as the anti's are.
>

Didn't see a rebuttal to the above coming from you.


I can stand the heat just fine. I did not try to divide anything. You love the NRA good, I don't. I f the returned to their old ways I would rejoin in a minute


I can stand the heat just fine. It is you who can't stand anyone having a different view point.

I will stop posting

Nemont
 
I don't depend on the Internet to check my ego.

If all it takes is questioning the NRA on a forum formthenani gun nuts to win then the NRA has already lost

Nemont
 
It would be nice to sit down with the likes of Pierce Morgan and his anti gun chronies and have a civil discussion about guns over crackers and tea. Unfortunately, the only way to get through to this crowd is a full on in your face frontal attack.The Brits and the Aussies tried the civil way. It didn't work!Nemont needs to take down the lifesize Pierce Morgan poster and start living in reality. Morgan is an idiot thats needs to be expressed shipped back to his mother land.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-13 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]Cabin,

Show me a single post that I said Morgan was anything other than an idiot.

Nemont
 
Nemont

As I recall you called Jones an idiot not Morgan. The content of Jones argument was spot on, but the yelling didn't do him any favors.The false narative of the Pierce Morgans of the media will do far more harm than the Alex Jones.

The orignal post was regarding a video of Jones and Morgan having it out on gun control. I assume most posters watched the video.Morgan has made it clear his position on guns.In case you didn't notice, Jones, was the guy advocating our 2nd ammendment rights, yet Jones is the idiot. Look, I get that as a liberal, you guys are super sensitive. Apparently, all the yelling Jones did offended you.You think civil conversations with liberal extremisits will help gun owners make progress.Please watch HunterHarrys video in post 80. This mentality projected by the liberal media is dangerous to gun owners. The only difference between Alex Jones and the gentlemen in this video is he didn't yell. This civil exchange also proves that civil or not these liberal whack jobs don't think law abiding citizens should own assult rifles. I still give the idiot award to Morgan.
 
cabinfever---Do you really think that ranting, screaming "idiot" Jones did us any good in that interview with people sitting on the fence that watched him go off like that? That was as bad as Nuge and his tirades that do nothing other than alienate the exact people we need to be on our side that are straddling the fence on these issues and don't think it isn't. PS: This is no friggin Lib asking you the question either!
 
Nemont here in CA.we allready have a ban on clips that hold more than 10 rounds and a very extensive back ground check and a ten day waiting period and with a limit of guns you can buy in a month,and now their going to put some rules out their for us,if you think their only going afther a few items I think our President will prove otherwise.
 
There is one thing you need to keep in the back of your mind. If Obama does go the EO route. Does anyone here really believe that a majority in the Senate will overturn it. I can see the house doing it due to majority GOP.

I am really fearful that not enough Democrats will go with the minorty GOP in the Senate to overturn a EO by their President. The ones that do not vote to overturn, at their re-election time will just state they were bystanders when Obama used his powers as president to issue the EO. Some of the Western states Democrats may vote to overturn for fear of being voted out of office, but will there be enough of them to gain a majority vote?

Or will Harry Reid table the bill to the back burner as he has done other bills in the past. I do not see Reid going against Obama and doing everything possible to scratch Obama's back for a few favors in return.

RELH
 
Apex,

Explain making sure current law is followed via EO is equal to a ban on so called assault weapons.

In those 19 EO's there will be no ban, get it? He can't do it through an EO and if he does there will be blood in the water because it will cost Harry Reid any chance of getting anything else done.

I know dealing with reality is a #itch but none of what is posted here has explained how a renewed AWB gets through congress. I said earlier that expanded background checks and limits on magazine capacity were probably the likely outcomes. Anyone who understands how laws are made in this country could have told you how it would turn out.

Feinsteins bill will never make to the floor of the Senate for a vote.

You can pretend that the President is going to order the BATF to confsicate all your guns or you can deal in reality of the FACT that Harry Reid just stopped a renewed AWB in it's tracks with his interview. Did you read what he said?

Bizarro world stuff doesn't cut it any more.

Nemont
 
I also wonder if Apex read the link he posted because it's exactly what Nemont stated and does not tout any new gun controls because an EO can't do it. They know it and Reid basicly said that in his statements yesterday for those who can comprehend simple English!
 
Topgun, it's arbitrary whether Jones helped or hurt our cause.I think to some extent, guys like Jones and Nuge awaken gun owners to s sense of urgency and reality.I don't endorse their style. I just think Pierce Morgan is the real idiot here. I really wonder whos side the "fence sitters" are on anyway.Case in point, fence sitters sure didn't help our cause during this last election, and Romney was as civil as they come.Too civil, some would say. Obama won a 2nd term because he never stopped attacking, he demonized his opponent, and ran the nastiest campaign in US history.Guess what, it worked! To win this fight for our 2nd ammendment right, we may have to get nasty. I wish it didn't have to be that way. Infact, it shouldn't be that way, but it's the world we live in.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-13 AT 12:44PM (MST)[p]Do you really think that guy ranting on and on acting like a nut case got us any fence sitters, LOL? It might sit alright with you and people like the Nuge that think yelling at someone makes them listen, but it just isn't so. If a lot of the people who are adamant about keeping our weapons are not happy the way these two guys go about screaming like they are lunatics or idiots, how many fence sitters are thinking a lot worse things! Morgan might be an idiot in our eyes, but I'll bet he was laughing on the inside watching that guy go crazy while he was just sitting there in a toned down voice. The election demographics are such now in national elections that gun control has/had little to do with how Obama won. He has so many minority votes and people who believe in all the Lib entitlements that I didn't think Romney had a chance to win even with this country going down the river the way it is. He made some absolutely stupid statements that were put out to the public and one of the worst was where he talked about the huge percentage of people that wouldn't vote for him like I just mentioned. We may be in deeper chit at the state level in a lot of areas than worrying about the Feds the way we are right now. Here is the latest that just went up on my puter homepage less than an hour ago and Cuomo, who pushed it through, just may be the #1 democratic contender for the White House in the next election:

NY seals 1st state gun laws since Newtown massacre
1hr ago

ALBANY, N.Y. ? New York lawmakers agreed to pass the toughest gun control law in the nation and the first since the Newtown, Conn., school shooting, calling for a stricter assault weapons ban and provisions to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill who make threats.
Private sales of assault weapons to someone other than an immediate family would be subject to a background check through a dealer. New Yorkers also would be barred from buying assault weapons over the Internet, and failing to safely store a weapon could lead to a misdemeanor charge.
Ammunition magazines would be restricted to seven bullets, from the current 10, and current owners of higher-capacity magazines would have a year to sell them out of state. An owner caught at home with eight or more bullets in a magazine could face a misdemeanor charge.
Stores that sell ammunition will have to register with the state, run background checks on buyers of bullets and keep an electronic database of bullet sales.
In another provision, a therapist who believes a mental health patient made a credible threat to use a gun illegally would be required to report it to a mental health director who would have to notify the state. A patient's gun could be taken from him or her.
The legislation also increases sentences for gun crimes including the shooting of a first responder that Cuomo called the "Webster provision." Last month in the western New York town of Webster, two firefighters were killed after responding to a fire set by the shooter, who eventually killed himself.
The measure passed the Senate 43-18 on the strength of support from Democrats, many of whom previously sponsored bills that were once blocked by Republicans. The Democrat-led Assembly gaveled out before midnight and planned to take the issue up at 10 a.m. Tuesday.
The governor confirmed the proposal, previously worked out in closed session, also would mandate a police registry of assault weapons, grandfathering in assault weapons already in private hands.
It was agreed upon exactly a month since the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy.
"It is well-balanced, it protects the Second Amendment," said Senate Republican leader Dean Skelos of Long Island.
Cuomo said he wanted quick action to avoid a run on assault weapons and ammunition. He estimates there are already about 1 million assault weapons in New York state.
Republican Sen. Greg Ball called that political opportunism in a rare criticism of the popular and powerful governor seen by his supporters as a possible candidate for president in 2016.
"We haven't saved any lives tonight, except one: the political life of a governor who wants to be president," said Ball who represents part of the Hudson Valley. "We have taken an entire category of firearms that are currently legal that are in the homes of law-abiding, tax paying citizens. ... We are now turning those law-abiding citizens into criminals."
In the gun debate, one concern for New York is its major gun manufacturer upstate.
Remington Arms Co. makes the Bushmaster
and language specifically targeted the military-style rifle
Current owners of those guns will have to register them.
 

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