Poachers, nice work dwr

They should each get a fine the size of a new pickup, weekends in jail for 6 months, lifetime loss of hunting privileges, and a couple hundred hours of wildlife-related community service.
 
How many times have those DBs been caught poaching?

I'm going to start planning my San Juan elk hunt for this fall right now, it doesn't matter that I don't have a tag, if I get caught it's just a little slap on the wrist.
 
The didn't hurt nobody troll, now leave your shop doors unlocked and let these guys come by tonight and pick and choose what heads they want to take or not.
 
Good work, DWR.
I believe too many guys high-grade on these high pressure hunts! After all, what would the MM crowd think of a guy who killed an average trophy?
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 11:12AM (MST)[p]So none of y'all know do you. You are screaming for blood but you don't know why?????? Rabid lemmings

Even by y'allS perverted idea of stealing these guys stole absolutely nothing. The state had all ready approved these animals to die. So what did they harm?
 
OMG tri,

Some of your points are thought-provoking but in this case, you're just off your rocker!
What would happen if everyone who had a LE tag decided to kill an extra animal or two. Think about it... no tri... really think about it and you'll see what they stole from us all.

Zeke
 
Tristate, they stole that second 380 class bull when he failed to use his tag on a 5X6 bull. Anyone who would defend these guys is no friend of traditional hunting and obeying the rules that help preserve those animals for generations to follow.
Too bad they did not leave the penalty at the felony stage instead of reducing it to a misdemeanor. They would have lost their rights to possess firearms for life.

RELH
 
Tristate, the Poacher Apologist. I like how you make some moronic statement and then when no one bothers to respond, you thump your chest like you've just made a point.
 
The dirt bags should be hung by the nutz! They should have a he!! of alot bigger fine like others said. A slap on the wrist and the bottom is all they got. And they'll continue to do it.

Now Tripster, WOW! Thats all I have to say to you is wow!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 03:12PM (MST)[p]>Sorry I need to be more
>specific. I am talking
>about the deer and not
>the elk.


What about the deer? It was also taken illegally by one of the guys on another person's tag and that's what he and the guy that let him use his tag were cited for. In case you missed that sentence:
"In November of 2011, a 35-inch trophy buck was illegally killed using Riffey's permit." You can't kill and use another person's tag on an animal, regardless of whether the tag was drawn legally or not. End of discussion!
 
Actually top gun that is the beginning of the discussion and what I want y'all to analyze and think about. Why is that law in existence and why would anyone take it so personally when it is broken?
 
I suspect that 'abandoning an animal due to ground shrinkage and then whacking another' happens a great deal all over the west when you are talking about hard to draw tags, high pref point tags, and high dollar landowner tags and conservation permits.
 
My taxi shop has nothing to do with this deerlover. Quit trying to distract people. I don't make silly rules about this person gets product at this time while these people don't. I am either open for all or closed for all. Period. And you can pick up your friends item for him with his permission. That's as close to apples to apples as I can make your childish analogy.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-15 AT 08:10AM (MST)[p]Hey Pig,

It's called party hunting, every state except probably TexASS has the same law.

Here's something I want you to think about and analyze. Beating you with a baseball bat is illegal. It's a law I don't agree with, but it's a law I'll obey for the greater good of society.
 
Shortgun,

I know it's a law. But it is a law with no logical purpose. I know you don't use logic but don't be so jealous of the people that do. You may think I am a pig but I know you are a sheep.
 
If nobody ever questioned the usefulness or purpose of a law y'all would still be paying taxes to the king and owning slaves.

Now does anyone know why they made it law that one man can't give his deer tag to another person? Who or what does it harm?
 
It increases the likely hood of filling it thus limiting the available opportunity and in turn limiting license sales and revenue used to manage wildlife. It was legal in mn. One year I killed 7 deer many years I killed 3. There was always 10 of us or more and alot of those years it was 1 tag/person. You could continue to hunt with a punched tag so long as yer buddies tag wasn't and he was in the field as well. Now that's with a herd of around a million. Little different out here, limited resources.
 
Thanks for answering the question DW instead of being a sheep like the others.

So you are saying in a time with more and more limited resource availability the states are actually issuing tags they really can't afford to be filled???????? How in the world can anyone institute a sound management plan for a herd that they can't control their harvest? So now we are at the root of our problems.

You do realize if the state were operating sound harvest management you could shoot a hundred deer as long as you were putting valid legal tags on them.

As for the scenario of two men hunting on the same tag that is all ready illegal. When a game warden catches a man hunting without a tag or license he should and does get a ticket.
 
>Thanks for answering the question DW
>instead of being a sheep
>like the others.
>
>So you are saying in a
>time with more and more
>limited resource availability the states
>are actually issuing tags they
>really can't afford to be
>filled???????? How in the
>world can anyone institute a
>sound management plan for a
>herd that they can't control
>their harvest? So now
>we are at the root
>of our problems.
>

They issue a number of tags with past success rates factored in to determine how many animals will actually be killed. They know a certain percentage will go unfilled. If all the tag holders started huntin from choppers and everyone filled their tag they'd have a problem, yes.
 
And there is one of many problems. Using past success rates to predict next year's opportunities is a failing management model. It has never been able to accurately foresee the ingenuity of man. As a result they keep writing more and more restrictive and useless laws hoping they will increase your failure and mask their own.
 
"Now does anyone know why they made it law that one man can't give his deer tag to another person? Who or what does it harm?'

If you could give your tag away, a lot of people would have 100 of their non hunting friends put in and then give them the tag. Then people like me, who have no friends, would be at a disadvantage.:)

You shouldn't be awarded a tag based on the number of friends you have.

Also people would try to draw a tag and then sell it,(underground market would spring up)

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
We've proven we can hunt them into submission without seasons and limits. This has nothing to do with an inability to manage and produce enough game they could never produce that many animals. When there comes a day when we can walk into the woods, push a button and kill every animal in 5 miles, will it be the managers fault for not being able to produce enough game to keep up?
 
Exactly eel. But the problem isn't wether you have 100 nonhunting friends to give you a tag each. The problem is the state is giving out 100 deer tags that they don't have a herd we could safely harvest 100 bucks out of.

The fact is many of the current game restrictions are made to manage people and mask a massive failure on the part of our game departments while screwing the future of our herds.

The only way to maximize opportunity is to manage for larger herds and quit worrying about hands clawing at the pot.
 
"Using past success rates to predict next year's opportunities is a failing management model"

Said no member of any management team of any agency/company/administration ever.


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Pig your're a freckin idiot. If you don't see what's wrong with an abled bodied person hunting on a handicapped persons permit then you're a complete moran and there's no hope for you. Think about and analyze that.
 
>Pig your're a freckin idiot. If
>you don't see what's wrong
>with an abled bodied person
>hunting on a handicapped persons
>permit then you're a complete
>moran and there's no hope
>for you. Think about and
>analyze that.

If you are going to keep responding to trollstate, which as we all know is a complete waste of everyone's time, at least spell correctly! It's MORON!!!
 
What's the logical problem shortgun? The handicapped person didn't care and a dead deer sure can't tell the difference.
 
I didn't miss it. I just thought eels post was better to respond to. I am not arguing to get rid of limits and wiping out deer so I am unsure why you went there.
 
>And there is one of many
>problems. Using past success
>rates to predict next year's
>opportunities is a failing management
>model. It has never
>been able to accurately foresee
>the ingenuity of man.
>As a result they keep
>writing more and more restrictive
>and useless laws hoping they
>will increase your failure and
>mask their own.


Due to this post.
 
How bout u give us yer management plan that enables us to all hunt from choppers and shoot whatever we want and never run out of game. This will shorten this thread. As you've implied our game managers are doin a lousy job with too few animals and too many restrictions.
 
Manage every single tag as a dead deer period. It doesn't give you an unending amount of deer to kill but it does help stabilize management of the herds and decrease the cost of doing so.
 
>Manage every single tag as a
>dead deer period. It
>doesn't give you an unending
>amount of deer to kill
>but it does help stabilize
>management of the herds and
>decrease the cost of doing
>so.


Then not enough animals will be harvested and opportunities will be cut in half along with revenue
 
"Exactly eel. But the problem isn't wether you have 100 nonhunting friends to give you a tag each. The problem is the state is giving out 100 deer tags that they don't have a herd we could safely harvest 100 bucks out of."

No,no,no. The way it would work is that if 10 tags were available, and you could transfer your tag to a friend if you wanted, you could have 100 friends applying for one of those 10 tags. And then if one of your friends drew one tag, you're set. In other words you would have 100 chances in the draw.

Granted, the best solution is to increase the herd size, but that would take some land management, so we're stuck.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
>Nope


Show me the numbers. Start with a herd of 1,000 you want the herd to remain at 900.......go
 
Tristate regardless of your opinion of party hunting... Which I think is crap BTW.

I don't know how you can openly defend someone as Derren Klein. They guy has multiple infractions and has lost his hunting rights already for an extended period of time in the past. Unfortunately it won't alter his actions or his behavior. He's a scum bag. He'll just hunt the indian reservation as he did last time until his hunting rights are restored and he'll just do the same thing again.
 
....if you can't discriminate the handicapped...and you are going to issue special tags.....how can you tell a guy that is paralyzed from the eyes down that he is not eligible???.....he might just need a trigger man to act on his behalf.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-15 AT 09:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-15 AT 09:00?PM (MST)

Did the guy mentioned in the article ,Mason Latham, use to guide ? I could swear I've heard his name before.
 
seen 56 postings on here and was expecting a good discussion. Then 3 postings in, tristate posted and I knew it was over at that point. :(

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
I do believe this is not the first issue that Mason has had with the DWR and that he recently got his hunting privileges reinstated. Sounds like those will probably go away again here soon.
 
So will they take all his heads or just the ones they can prove he got illegally.They should take every head, shed, ETC he has. I wonder if they got any information from the internet on where to hunt.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
>I do believe this is not
>the first issue that Mason
>has had with the DWR
>and that he recently got
>his hunting privileges reinstated. Sounds
>like those will probably go
>away again here soon.


I heard he has a tag to hunt that unit as a result of turning in a poacher last year. Kind of ironic.
 
Tri-We all know you need someone else's able eyes and a wheel barrow to even get in the hills....I mean with your head so far up your arse we truly understand your concerns of those like you that need help.
 
Howdy,

Sorry went on a cruise for a little while.

DW, it takes a lot more information than you provided to establish a harvest objectives. But if all things were perfect you should be able to at least sixty bucks per year and eat here year do analysis for a massive doesn't slaughter.

As for people claiming I am defending anyone I am not. Don't know this person and could care less. I can live with whatever the judge lowers upon him. Now I do find it ridiculous when people wish these people physical harm.
 
So did I read the article correctly...SFW helped the disabled hunter get a tag in 2010, 2011, and 2012.
 
>>Nope
>
>
>Show me the numbers. Start with
>a herd of 1,000 you
>want the herd to remain
>at 900.......go


DW has just OWNED Tristate!! Game Over!!
 
Interesting statement here:

Klein and Peterson "somehow" obtained the permits for Riffey.

Doesn't it sound somewhat suspicious the DWR can't say for certain how the permit holder received it multiple years in a row.
 
Gunnie, the deer tag may have been on the CMU. They may have bought the CMU tags in the disabled guys name so they could hunt the extended season.

Gator, do you really think that the right response to this poaching is to steal the guys legally taken "heads, sheds etc" if we did, how would we be better people than the poachers themselves who stole our game?

Someone brought up the best point when they pointed out the hodgepodge nature of some of the laws that were enforced here: namely that the disabled guys ability to have an able bodied person fill his tag by proxy is allowed in some states as is party hunting.Filling a tag by proxy is even allowed here in Utah for a disabled guy R657-12.So why are we being told it was a crime for one of these guys to shoot the disabled guys deer?The Big Game guide book says good to go.Did the guy just not have his permission slip on his person or what? I have found that a good test of whether a law is a good one or just an intrusion on a sportsmans rights is if is universal to all states or jurisdictions; as is the shooting of the second Elk; dirtbags to be sure.

I would also encourage those who judge to judge the UDWR contribution to the wrongdoing. The DWR may have even caused the crime to happen.By having a a hunters with disabilities rule in the first place or BY fraud. The DWR here in Utah regularly defrauds hunters: by knowingly misrepresenting the severity of crimes.In the same Utah Big Game guide book it describes party hunting as a class B misdemeanor. Again, why then was it enforced as a Felony? Call me old fashioned, I like the rules enforced as they are printed. Seems to me like there is more wrongdoing here by the DWR than by the poachers themselves.Who is going to get those dirtbags?
 
Trammer
You may have some valid points...however they do not apply to this situation:
-These guys have a history of shading hunting practices
-They shot and killed an elk, and then decided to keep hunting
-They knowingly shot a buck for someone else.

So, they are responsible, NOT THE DWR.
 
>Gunnie, the deer tag may have
>been on the CMU. They
>may have bought the CMU
>tags in the disabled guys
>name so they could hunt
>the extended season.
>
>Gator, do you really think that
>the right response to this
>poaching is to steal the
>guys legally taken "heads, sheds
>etc" if we did, how
>would we be better people
>than the poachers themselves who
>stole our game?
>
>Someone brought up the best point
>when they pointed out the
>hodgepodge nature of some of
>the laws that were enforced
>here: namely that the disabled
>guys ability to have an
>able bodied person fill his
>tag by proxy is allowed
>in some states as is
>party hunting.Filling a tag by
>proxy is even allowed here
>in Utah for a disabled
>guy R657-12.So why are we
>being told it was a
>crime for one of these
>guys to shoot the disabled
>guys deer?The Big Game guide
>book says good to go.Did
>the guy just not have
>his permission slip on his
>person or what? I have
>found that a good test
>of whether a law is
>a good one or just
>an intrusion on a sportsmans
>rights is if is universal
>to all states or jurisdictions;
>as is the shooting of
>the second Elk; dirtbags to
>be sure.
>
>I would also encourage those who
>judge to judge the UDWR
>contribution to the wrongdoing. The
>DWR may have even caused
>the crime to happen.By having
>a a hunters with disabilities
>rule in the first place
>or BY fraud. The DWR
>here in Utah regularly defrauds
>hunters: by knowingly misrepresenting the
>severity of crimes.In the same
>Utah Big Game guide book
>it describes party hunting as
>a class B misdemeanor. Again,
>why then was it enforced
>as a Felony? Call me
>old fashioned, I like the
>rules enforced as they are
>printed. Seems to me like
>there is more wrongdoing here
>by the DWR than by
>the poachers themselves.Who is going
>to get those dirtbags?

My point was they know exactly how they received the permit but for unknown reasons it was omitted from the article. I was curious if the DWR didn't want the general public to know how the tags were obtained or if it didn't get printed for some other reason. CMU or landowner tags (money tags) and all these "special seasonal tags/rules" do enable hunters to break the law. But the opportunity provided by the UDWR does not "cause" a person to violate the law. That is a personal choice each individual makes on his own. They somehow justified it in their head that it was ok to participate in this behavior. Maybe it was vanity or for commercial reasons but social media plays a big part in the demise of many trophy animals.

The classifications on the crime is what makes each crime different, depending on the intent of the violators. It is really no different than a speeding citation. The faster you go the more sanctions you will suffer. It all depends on how fast and how many times you get caught. Should a first time DUI offender get treated the same as another person who was arrested 15 times for DUI cause the laws says it is only a class B. Does Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Remington, Browning, Ruger get charged for fraud because some tard made a bad decision while using their product. Wildlife is a product of the entertainment the DWR sells.

These individuals made a choice. Even if the laws were different these particular people still would have taken the animals by unlawful means. I don't think it is wise to deflect or blame others for an individual choice made by some. It is the exact same argument Obama makes against gun makers.
 
I totally agree with the straight up poaching charge for the second Bull Elk that was taken. All I am saying why the felony party hunting change for an offense that is clearly advertised to the public as a class b misdemeanor? That is dirty pool, not by the hunters, by DWR. That is not good work that is bad work.Additionally why the charge for for taking a deer by proxy for the disabled guy? That too is clearly permitted by the rules I have read. What I am saying is the dirtbags that falsely publish or falsely enforce hunting laws are as big a scumbags as the poachers; they are poaching too...poaching people...not following the rules. It seems pretty basic and moral that Law Enforcement ought enforce the rules exactly as they are published against everyone. And if the crime for shooting the deer for the disabled guy was only a crime because he lacked a piece of paper in his pocket then it ought be described that way. The charge should then be titled failure to obtain a permission slip. I like truth, truth in titling, truth in the description of the crime. Sportsmen dont need to be bull chitted by crooked Fish Cops enforcing imaginary crimes. Tell us the truth.
 
Trammer---Please bone up on who issues the charges in a case before you go on your next tirade! It isn't the person or agency doing the investigation, but rather the Prosecutor who files and decides what statues he can charge under based on the information he/she is given by the agency.
 
The Prosecutor brings what ever charge the Game Warden wants. The Game Warden files his "information" with the Prosecutor and the "information" includes a probable cause statement by the Game Warden in that probable cause statement the Game Warden lists the "crimes" he want the accused charged.

Legislators regularly get the blames for the Bull crap wildlife laws that are passed, when they really dont deserve the blame. Because, Legislators did not think that crap up for themselves; Fish Cops did. The Fish Cops have a hot line to the Legislature and have their own Lobby. Essentially what ever junk Laws or Legislation the Fish Cops want, gets processed through the Legislature.

Similarly, what ever junk Wildlife Law the Fish Cops want to prosecute, they prosecute. The Prosecutor has very little discretion to decline to file charges against whomever the Game Warden chooses.

Game Wardens have entirely too much discretion.Because often times they use their discretion to go easy on poachers too...when the poachers are their Friends or coworkers. Take the Sage Grouse poaching case of the DWR Director himself as a good example. The Director was supposed to have his hunting rights revoked as a result of his poaching. But in Utah the Game Warden gets to be judge and jury on that issue. Isnt it just nice that the Game Warden didnt see fit to revoke his bosses hunting rights for poaching when 100% of the time when it is the general public who is accused of poaching they have their hunting rights revoked.
 
Trammer, You are trying to put too much into this. I guess that if anyone should know about what the division law enforcement is all about it is you. They seem to pick on you on a regular bases. The wardens do have the right to determine or use their own opinion as to weather it was an accident or done on purpose. There is a big difference. As to the director's situation. He stepped out of his unit by a short distance and shot a grouse. After he realized what he had done, he called in and had the law enforcement come out and write him a ticket. The law enforcement did not want to write the ticket but the director made him. Yes he was fined and paid his fine.
 
Birdman---I think we all know by now that Trammer is more than a little prejudiced against all law enforcement officials everywhere because of the number of times he's been busted in several states and it was NEVER his fault! His last tirade was exactly that again and he also made a number of errors in his statements because he doesn't know everything about law enforcement like he thinks he does. Yes, there are statutes for the various violations whether it's for poaching or shooting a bird in the wrong area and most have several levels in them to cover the various circumstances that may come up if a case is filed with a Prosecutor. A certain level at which a person is prosecuted depends on the circumstances involved, including whether the person is a repeat or habitual offender. It sounds like the incident he mentioned was handled properly with no court case or loss of privileges being necessary. In the 30+ years in the field before retiring in 2002, I was enforcing many different laws and regulations and took a number of cases in to the various County Prosecutors when it was the only route available to rectify a situation or get the message across to a violator. I told them what the case involved, whether the violator had other transgressions and then the Prosecutor or an assistant wrote the warrant up charging the person with what they felt was the correct section of the particular statute. I would imagine that is essentially what has happened with Trammer, but I know in order to keep a great relationship with the 9 Prosecutors I had contact with I did not go in and tell them how to do their job!
 
I know Monster Muleys holds hunting etiquette in high regard. I would suggest you check your story archives from 10 years ago where one of the convicted perpetrators actually wrote an article for your Monster Muzzleloader section describing his hunt in the Henry Mountains. Might want to retract that story as it destroys any credibility.

Thanks for all you do.
 
Lets get this straight. Not only is poaching so loathed now that if you get convicted of "poaching" your house should be burned down and you should be black listed from ever holding employment but anyone who has anything you wrote on their website should subsequently take it down shamefully in hopes of protecting their credibility????????????

Meanwhile your first post ever on here is to lay down the law on this sights "credibility"????? Do you have credibility?


This is the internet brother. Nobody comes here for credibility.
 

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