Poaching or Not Poaching?

S

soupcreek

Active Member
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When I was in my teens, I had an successful muledeer hunt. In years past, I had previously killed a number of deer (does and little bity forked horns), but this year I really wanted something bigger. A friend and I topped a ridge and saw a group of deer about 250 yards away. One was a buck that was obviously not one of the little two points I had shot in the past. In the middle of my buck fever, I pulled up and smoked him. I ran down quickly, just knowing that it was the 30 incher I dreamed about the night before. Upon my arival, I realized that my 30 inch buck was actually a 15 inch two point (that's a lot of ground shrinkage!). I was a little disappointed, but I learned from it. So anyway, here is my question. From where I shot on top of the ridge, I was on ground I had permission to hunt. The buck was about 5-10 feet on the other side of the fence, which I didn't have permission to hunt on. After I shot the buck, it fell, kicked and rolled its way under the fence and off of the private ground. I never crossed the fence at all. DID I POACH THIS BUCK? I have always wondered.

P.S. This was about 15 years ago, so please don't send any game wardens my way. Do I need to change my login to Poacher89?
 
I think that the statute of limitations has passed on this one. As far as it being poaching, I would have dragged the buck back, but I think you did what was lawfully required. you had no proof that you shot it on your side, and you would've gotten in more trouble if you had been caught.
 
I've always heard that if you shoot an animal on public land and it runs onto private land and expires that you can not legally retrive it with out permisson. In this case it is oppisite, since you were fortunate enough to have it fall on the right side of the fence and took posession on land you had permission to be on I think that your ok on this one. However if the other land owner would have been present when you shot the buck you might of had a pretty heated argument on your hands.
 
It seems like you would be OK. Whoever owns the land that you did not have permission to hunt on did not own the buck you shot. And you didn't tresspass. The potential was definately there for trouble though. I would call yourself lucky on that one.
 
NO YOU DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SHOOT IT IF IT WAS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE FENCE.
cosider your self guilty as charged.
or wasn't charged, your one lucky hunter.
there is'nt a fine line here.
You shot a deer that you had no business shooting,
it was'nt fair game.
with lesson learned, lets leave it at that.

pochher89 (good handle)
 
If you saw and knowingly knew the buck was 10 to 15 feet or meters or whatever on the other side of the fence when you shot ..... you POACHED that buck and shot it illegally.
 
Thank you Elkmaster and BCbucks! I totally agree with you two. Put it this way, if you owned the bordering property of lets say an outfitter, and that outfitter was standing on his leased property and shot a buck on your side of the fence would you just say, "oh, nice shot!" I don't think so. It doesn't matter if that deer rolled under the fence (ya right) over a rock, through a stream and into the bed of your truck.

AZ....your right that landowner did not own that buck, but he did own the right to hunt, or not, that buck.

Ask a game warden, I gaurentee you that is Poaching!
 
I'm just trying to keep things honest here. I DID know that the buck was on the other side of the fence when I shot. Also, it may sound like a story, but the buck did literally roll under the fence on its own. I did not cross the fence.

One time my grandfather shot two antelope with one bullet (only one tag). What is the ethical thing to do in this case? He later asked a gamewarden friend about it and his reply about what to do was, "I definitely wouldn't ask my game warden friend about it." That was the end of the conversation. I guess this poaching thing is genetic.
 
was there intent to poach? if not, probably just an accident. same as when someone dies in an accident where there is no criminal intent or negligence. i don't see it as poaching.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-09-04 AT 03:40PM (MST)[p]I think all of you who do'nt think it is poaching,
should line up on the national park boundrys and shoot at elk inside the park, and have a game warden standing there as you do.
bet non of you would. (no balls)

you know damn well you would be doing prison time and a hefty fine.
it makes no difference in this case.
he said he knew it was on the wrong side of the fence....
he did not have "premission" to hunt or kill anything on the property.
read the laws. They are made to fo all to abbide by.
not just the honest people.
I have a feeling by some of the responces that there is a lot of people here guilty of the same crime, and their ethical morrals in hunting leave something to be desired.
Its flat ass wrong.....
 
Elkmaster, read his original post and tell me where he says that he knew it was across the fence. Knowing that now I would say that it is poaching. But if he had gone in and turned himself in right after that, I bet the warden would have given him a warning and sent him on his way.
 
If you knew he was on the wrong side you poached him. If you didn't know, you poached him and just made a mistake. Hope not to do it agian. Hell I have done it all! I've been caught and learned the hard way. My dad was a poacher and it is his nick-name! He is a good boy now. He had me doing a lot of bad stuff in the old days. Thing is, I hated the way it felt and I could never share my stories, being sworn to never tell. Thats tough on a kid. I had my rights read to me in the forest of Montana as a young man and it was the shts. I taught my son the right way and he has never had to feel bad. Poaching is low life and I was reborn, Amen.
 
WOW

THIS IS LIKE SAYING MY NAME IS O.J.,I KILLED BUT DON'T REALLY THINK I'M GUILTY!!!

THERE COMES A TIME IN LIFE(WHEN YOU ALL GROW UP!!!)WHEN YOU ASK YOURSELF,IS IT THE ETHICAL THING TO DO BEFORE YOU PULL YOUR TRIGGER HAPPY FRICKEN FINGER!!!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO WASTE AN ANIMAL,NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS,YOU DO WHAT IT TAKES TO SALVAGE THE MEAT,AND JUST CAUSE THE 30"ER TURNED INTO A 15" 2 POINT DOESN'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WASTE THE ANIMAL,YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT I'M TELLING YOU BUT IF I'D OF BEEN THERE AND SEEN YOU WASTE THE ANIMAL YOU'D OF DAMN WELL BEEN WANTING TO FIND A WARDEN RATHER THAN ME!!!

YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME TURNING YOU IN,THERES A MM MEMBER THAT I'M SURE IS ALREADY CHECKING AND GONNA BE WATCHING SOME OF YOUR UNETHICAL STUNTS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat NOT SPOILING MEAT OR WANTON WASTING OF WILDLIFE,HELL, PULL THE DAMN DEER BACK UNDER THE FENCE AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR SUPPOSED 30"ER!!!
 
ONE MORE THING TO REMEMBER

IF YOU'RE GONNA HUNT THAT DAMN CLOSE TO PRIVATE PROPERTY,MAYBE,JUST MAYBE YOU OUGHT TO LEARN THE BOUNDARIES BEFORE YOU GET BUCK FEVER OVER A 15" 2 POINT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat NOT BUYING THE 30" STORY!!!
 
Poaching aside. You done wrong (no one can argue that point), you were a teen who made a mistake (we have all been there), and you learned from your mistake. Nuf said.

Did anyone else pick up on the possibility that he indeed saw a bigger buck, but in the excited confusion shot the wrong buck when he brought his gun up. Not the first time that has happened.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I'm usually with ya bobcat but I didn't read in his post that he left it. But he did poach it.

JB
 
I just wanted to make sure that a couple things are understood about what I've said and done.
First, I quite happily tagged my buck and took it home and ate the whole animal. Wasting these beautiful animals irritates me as much as it does most of you. I HAVE NEVER SHOT AN ANIMAL AND LEFT IT ON THE MOUNTAIN TO ROT, NOR WOULD I EVER.

I have really enjoyed the feedback on my teen hunting experience. I too have grown up since then. I know it was wrong now, and truthfully, I knew it was wrong then when I pulled up my gun and fired. The difference between then and now is that NOW my integrity would make me wait 5 more seconds for him to jump the fence to the legal side (or not shoot at all if if it doesn't).
If I can figure out how to post a picture I will.

--soup
 
SORRY SOUP

I HAD TO REREAD YOUR FIRST POST,I MISUNDERSTOOD THE SITUATION!!!

I'M NOT AS MAD AS I THOUGHT I WAS!!!

DID YOU POACH IT???PROBABLY,BUT THERE JUST AIN'T A 2 POINT WORTH THE CONSEQUENCES!!!

THERE AIN'T A 2 POINT LEFT ON THE MOUNTAIN WORTH GETTING IN A BIG JAM!!!

DO YOU REALIZE HOW BIG A 30" BUCK LOOKS IN THE WILD???

WHEN YOU THINK YOU'VE GOT A 40" OR 50"ER LOCATED AND YOU'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO PUT HIM ON THE DINNER PLATE,YOU'LL PROBABLY FIND THE BUCK IS CLOSER TO 30"!!!

THE ONLY bobcat GLAD TO HEAR THE ANIMAL WAS NOT WASTED!!!
 
SOUP ,
Poaching no . Trespassing maybe . Unethical ? Not compared to hunting from ATV's or chute planes.
 
I don't know about the rest of ya but, where I come from if you shoot an animal on private property you are poaching. The man doesn't care if it's 1 inch or 1 mile on to private property. They also don't care how old you are. You need to know exactly where you are when hunting that close to private property. Some people are charging a lot of money to hunt animals on their land and if you accidently smoke a potential pay check off their land they seem to get pretty upset.
 
No grey area here, its poaching if you shoot an animal on property you don't have permission to hunt. In CO the law states that very plainly. Ignorance doesn't dismiss the crime. Glad you have learned from your mistake though.
 
Look at it from another angle>:
Say your hunting near a wildlife refuge and you shoot and wound a buck and it run a 1/4 mile and jumps and dies on the closed side! So you put your weapon down on the hunting side on the ground,jumps the fence -start to field dress the buck to light'n up the load then the warden see what happening and blows a fuse after arriving! the hunter explains hows the whole thing happened and I saw the whole thing and backed him up then the warden explains the "right to persue wounded game" that means it an auto right to tresspass within a fair distence to retreive game without an weapon. The warden had another problem with the .357 strap on the hunters side.
So your still doing a "hunter trespass" which is a very big mess!!
rackmaster
 
Rackmaster....what you do in a case like that is, if you shoot the animal and it runs onto private property, then BEFORE you tag or dress the animal you should find that land owner first. If you can't find the landowner then call the game dept. Our in this case it went into a refuge, you need to contact the game dept. before you do anything. I'm sure they would be more than happy to send a warden over there to assist you. Tell them your story, I'm sure it happens often, then it won't look like your caught doing something illegal.
 
Soupcreek,

This one is easy to answer. You did not get caught, therefore, no poaching.;-)
 
KCT.
YOU need to see a shrink.
or spend some time in jail,
its only time untill your cought,
read what soupcreek said in his posts,
at least he is man enough to come forward,
kind of like telling us, he's been sleeping with all our wives.,
Natrure and its existiance is most of our first loves.
 
See the winky eyes. ;-) Do I need to explain what that is?

Please don't flood me with your ethical and "man enough" bullshit Master.
Only time "untill your cought"? ;-)
 
I am really enjoying this. As I have read the responses to my original question, this is my take on the situation.
I think the land owners/leasers see this issue as very black and white (i.e. "stay on your side of the fence, idiot").
I think the poor boys like me who don't own any land except what we share with every other American, see it a little more grey.
The truth is that the bullet crossing the fence was black(wrong). The rest of it was white.
Here is more background. Hunting in that area, we occasionally would see ranch hands hunting on the other side of the fence. We knew who the land owner was and that he did not lease the land or let other people hunt on it. The ranch hands that we saw hunting were NEVER wearing orange, and also, we figured they pretty much shot what ever animals they wanted. This is one reason I felt justified in shooting acrossed the fence. I WAS WRONG. Their poor choices did not justify mine. The fact that I'm too poor to own any land doesn't make it OK. The fact that the land owner was a stingy jerk doesn't make it OK. Admittedly, these factors make me angry, but they don't make it OK to break the law.

Oh yeah, I may have shot over a fence once, but I have never poached another man's wife!

My last take on the situation is this: If you are poor, don't shoot deer on somebody else's land. If you own land, you need to share the land God is sharing with you and occasionally let a father and his young son's hunt FOR FREE!
 
Ah yes, wellfare hunting for the poor. You worked hard to gain something now you must give a percent to those who have not.
 
Technically yes, you poached that buck. Nice that you put it to good use, but you poached it as the law is written.

I teach hunter safety and part of that is ethics. I've heard Ethics explained a lot of ways, but I think it's almost the same as character, defined as how we conduct ourselves when nobody is watching. I think people instintively know the difference between right and wrong. Knowing you didn't have permission to hunt on adjacent land, then spotting a trophy animal that is just barely on that land is for sure, one of the most tempting situations most hunters can be in. You were young, part of maturity is restraint. Being young doesn't make it OK, but it makes it harder to resist temptations.

Simple rule of thumb .....if you have to ask or wonder about it afterwards, then you probably know in your heart what the answer is. Great news that you've learned a good lesson from that. Oh yeah........almost forgot....poached critters that are laced in guilt don't taste as even 1/2 as good as legal critters do, or so I've heard :)
 
freedivr2 IS RIGHT

ETHICS,LETS SEE,ARE THERE ANY HUNTERS IN UTAH THAT HAVE ANY???(YA,THERE ARE SOME THAT DO!!!)

I HAD GOOD ETHICS UNTIL THE IDIOTS ON THEIR ATV'S DROVE ME TO BUYING A CHUTE PLANE,ALL I'VE HEARD SINCE,YOU HAVE A CHUTE PLANE???

TWO WRONGS SURE AS HELL DON'T MAKE A RIGHT,BUT IT'S AMAZING HOW MAD THE UNETHICAL ATV'ERS GET WHEN THEY SEE A CHUTE PLANE,MUST BE JEALOSY,I DON'T KNOW,MAYBE THEY THINK I HAVE AN ADVANTAGE NOW,IT WAS PRETTY FUNNY WHEN THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD ONE OVER ME!!!

MYSELF,I STAY CLEAR THE HELL AWAY FROM PRIVATE PROPERTY IF I CAN,THERES ALWAYS CONTROVERSY NO MATTER WHAT,AND I DO RESPECT PRIVATE PROPERTY DURING FLY OVERS!!!(HE,HE!!!)

THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR OPENING MORNING OF THE COVETED GENERAL SEASON TO OPEN,JUST WAITING TO SEE THE ETHICS OF UTAH HUNTERS AGAIN THIS YEAR!!!
 
I guess I am ignorant but what is a chute plane?

P.S. Will you please stop typing in all caps it is kind of annoying? Thanks

huntmac
 
huntmac

IF THESE CAPS ARE BOTHERING YOU I'M NOT SURE YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MY CHUTE PLANE IS!!!

MY CHUTE PLANE IS MY ATV!!!

I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE!!!

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO SCARE BIG GAME AS BAD AS THE QUADS!!!

I'VE BEEN THREATENED BY UNETHICAL HUNTERS THEY WILL SHOOT MY CHUTE PLANE!!!

MY CAP LOCKS BUTTON IS ON AND HAS BEEN ON FOR YEARS,I'VE EVEN HAD LESSONS AND STILL CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO SHUT IT OFF!!!

THE ONLY bobcat ANNOYING PEOPLE WITH A CAP LOCKS PROBLEM!!!
 
Put it in this perspective, if the buck was the 30" you had dreamed about and the same situation arose would you have drug the deer back across the fence? If you are man enough to say yes, then I concider you a poacher.


-Cass
 
> Ah yes, wellfare hunting for
>the poor. You worked hard
>to gain something now you
>must give a percent to
>those who have not.

It would only be "welfare hunting" if the government made you let people onto your land. I would definitely be opposed to that, and trust me I am a firm believer in private property rights. That being said, land is very expensive and there are a lot of hardworking people out there who, despite working their tails off day in and day out, will never own their own land to hunt. All soupcreek is suggesting is that if you have land, you should consider voluntarily letting a few people in there. What can it hurt?
 
Well, here is a photo of the actual hunt. The buck rolled under the fence right behind me in the photo. I am a little embarrassed about posting this photo here. I guess I should have posted it on minimuleys.com or mediocremuleys.com.
NO, I didn't actually think this was a 30 inch buck when I shot. I had seen a decent buck in the area the night before, but it was too dark to shoot (I had some ethics). When I came over the hill the next morning, this buck was just below the line of shade on the opposite side. I could see that it was bigger than a normal forky, so I shot it hoping it was the decent one I saw the night before. I don't think it was.
I smudged out my face in the photo to protect the innocent(?).
Thanks for all your input. I would also like to thank the landowner in Depuyer Montana that let me on to his lower 400 acres back in 1984 when I was 12. That is where I killed my first muledeer. I have been hooked since.

ryanlay61404.jpg
 
There is no fine line here guys! But there is a need for common sense like not posting a picture or not talking about it. You pegged out the fag meter on this one.
 
YOU KNOW WHAT REALLY MAKES A LANDOWNER MAD???

YOU KNOW WHAT REALLY PI$$ES A LANDOWNER OFF???

IT'S WHEN YOU ROLL THEIR FENCE UP TO GET YOUR BUCK DRUG BACK ON LEAGAL TENDER AND DON'T PUT IT BACK!!!

IN THE BACKGROUND A STRAND OR TWO HAS BEEN PULLED UP!!!(TO GET A BUCK UNDER IT!!!)

I THINK YOU JUST PROSECUTED YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN PICTURE!!!

NO,I'M NOT MAD AT YOU,BUT HOPEFULLY YOU FIXED THAT LANDOWNERS FENCE BEFORE YOU LEFT???THIS IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF WHY LANDOWNERS ARE GETTING TIRED OF HUNTERS,PLEASE RESPECT THEIR GROUND!!!

DID THE BUCK TRUTHFULLY ROLL BACK ON YOUR SIDE OR DID THE BUCK PULL THE WIRE UP JUST BEFORE HE DIED SO YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO DRAG HIM UNDER???

THE ONLY bobcat JUST WONDERING???
 
WTF, is a Fag O Meter, does it come with its own outlet, I can only guess where you plug it in.
Maybe thats why you were OUTLAWED !!!
 

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