L
LOWCOUNTRY
Guest
Just curious as to what other hunters on this site think about this concept as a tool to improve habitat for wildlife. Is it a good thing or a bad thing?
D
Deersman
Guest
Fires are inevitable in the west. So I have no problem with them. I do think that is one true habitat issue facing us. Pine invasion in aspen stands. So long as the burn is properly reseeded and maintained to prevent invasive non native plants.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,538
LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-10 AT 05:51AM (MST)[p]
I believe that fire suppression in the last century has been responsible for loss of aspen groves and loss of other good habitat. It is also reported (and I believe) that lack of fire has been responsible for the overall decline in mule deer numbers across the west. Left to their own devices (without fire), evergreens will eventually crowd out every other form of habitat. Ever see much that an elk or deer can eat under a pine forest? Wildlife needs both (cover and forage).
Fire is good and neccessary!
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
I believe that fire suppression in the last century has been responsible for loss of aspen groves and loss of other good habitat. It is also reported (and I believe) that lack of fire has been responsible for the overall decline in mule deer numbers across the west. Left to their own devices (without fire), evergreens will eventually crowd out every other form of habitat. Ever see much that an elk or deer can eat under a pine forest? Wildlife needs both (cover and forage).
Fire is good and neccessary!
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
B
Blue
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-10 AT 07:41AM (MST)[p]With out a doubt it is a good thing. I think about the only two ways aspen will regenerate is through fire or cutting it. It is one
of the better ways to get rid of the encroaching pinyon and junniper trees that are destroying winter range for wildlife.
I have been involved in many prescribed fires throughout my career and the results are wonder
of the better ways to get rid of the encroaching pinyon and junniper trees that are destroying winter range for wildlife.
I have been involved in many prescribed fires throughout my career and the results are wonder
H
hoytme
Guest
Fire suppression is one of the 3 biggest reasons mule deer herds are struggling.
B
Blue
Guest
One more thing. If we were able to have more prescribed fire we would have less catastrophic wildfires. Smokey bear really dropped the ball on that one.
S
spcheuvront
Guest
Guys,
In Az. anyway, it is a great thing, very expensive, but
good all the way around.
My opinion
Steve Cheuvront
In Az. anyway, it is a great thing, very expensive, but
good all the way around.
My opinion
Steve Cheuvront
Good thing if you ask me.
Wish there could be more of it.
I think it could reduce risk in California of huge fires. However, it seems there is no good way or proper time for them to do these burns. They themselves carry risk.
They just need to try to do them more often.
That is my two cents.
Wish there could be more of it.
I think it could reduce risk in California of huge fires. However, it seems there is no good way or proper time for them to do these burns. They themselves carry risk.
They just need to try to do them more often.
That is my two cents.
S
springbear
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-10 AT 04:21PM (MST)[p]Nice to see you guys are approving of it. Now here is something else you can do. Ask to get on the mailing list for your National Forest and or Ranger District so you recieve the Scoping letters for proposed projects and send them back your comments... Those Comments Do Count. You would not believe how many people are against Prescribed Burning.
They are risky, they do produce smoke, they can have a positive impact on wildlife and they most certainly reduce the impacts of large wildland fires.
Many of the large herds of Elk and Mule Deer were related to extremely large fires in the early part of the centry.
They are risky, they do produce smoke, they can have a positive impact on wildlife and they most certainly reduce the impacts of large wildland fires.
Many of the large herds of Elk and Mule Deer were related to extremely large fires in the early part of the centry.
slamdunk
Moderator
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- 10,389
ONE negative thing i have seen in a few burned areas are that cheat grass can literally take over very quickly and not allow the good grasses thrive. This has happened in both prescribed and natural fires.
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http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,004
+1 slam
I have see areas totally taken over with this weed. once it gets a foot hold you will see more fires more often. If the state sets them they need to do a better job reseeding.
Nets are for fish!!
I have see areas totally taken over with this weed. once it gets a foot hold you will see more fires more often. If the state sets them they need to do a better job reseeding.
Nets are for fish!!
B
Blue
Guest
I agree with the cheat grass problem. The last few years we have been conducting burns on the greenville bench near Beaver. After we burn the area we will fly seed on to it and run dozers and chains over it to disturb the soil so the seed will gave a good seed bed to sprout. We have even used range drills to plant the seed and that area out there looks awesome. We still get areas of cheat grass, but the stuff we plant is able to out compete the cheat grass.
J
Jazz
Guest
Good thing without question. More the better to improve food quantity and quality. Even more helpful if you can direct it through Juniper stands that are sucking up water. The grass issue is real and as I just recently read an issue in Wyoming with regards to the Sage Hen Non-Listing that is being challenged.
L
LOWCOUNTRY
Guest
Thanks for the feedback fellow hunters. I agree 1000% with all your thoughts about RX fire. I used to be a critic of it until I witnessed amazing results benefiting numerous wildlife species definitely an eye opener for me. I wish far more could be done. The cheat grass in the lower elevations is a scourge and I wish there was a way to eradicate it but the mid level to high mountains could use more fire.
K
knoxville471
Guest
I followed a third year burn on a elk hunt seen more elk than ever and the outcome was amazing. Standing were the fire stopped looking at were it burnt and were it didn't and it almost brought back the little pyro in me
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,520
Chaining is not nearly as good, the fire helps to "fertilize", chaining just leaves a pile of dead. Also, we need more fires here, most of our forests (Utah) are dead due to beetles, the result is a tangled mess of deadfall where nothing grows, plant or animal.
F
flinger
Guest
Blue,
What type of plant seeds were planted that can out compete cheatgrass?
What type of plant seeds were planted that can out compete cheatgrass?
W
walkerman
Guest
i think another thing that has hurt us all around is the lumbermills are not able to thin near as much as in years past because of the greenies which hurts in ways like opening up the canopy for game and creating a huge kindling pile in almost every forest in the state, our prices of lumber have skyrocketed because we cant get enough material here in the us we have to import it from chile and anywhere else well with the recent earthquakes they need their lumber so we get none and our prices go up with a bad economy that makes it even more unaffordable so less people building means less work and less jobs for the avg guy like me and still when it is said and done ut especially wont have any game for us to feed our families imagine that total govt takeover oh did i say that outloud?
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
I'll take a good fire in this country any day! Good thing about prescribed fires around here, a lot of them become out of control, our USFS wisdom, and sometimes they'll end up going for miles.
Burn baby, burn!!
Joey
Burn baby, burn!!
Joey
B
B_BOP_A_LU_LU
Guest
So hoytme wants more CHEAT grass?
Well Pro,Your Biologists that you think know everything,railed juniper & Pinion for years to improve habitat for many years,but it failed miserably!
Then they decided to spray & kill alot of sage brush,another big mistake!
Go ahead Pro,post your excuses!
Well Pro,Your Biologists that you think know everything,railed juniper & Pinion for years to improve habitat for many years,but it failed miserably!
Then they decided to spray & kill alot of sage brush,another big mistake!
Go ahead Pro,post your excuses!
A biologist in Nevada told me that they used to let the lower altitude grass and sage fires burn, and they would suppress the higher altitude fires that happen in the higher precip. zones. she said in hindsight they had it backwards, because the arid lower areas become dominated by cheat, and the cheat grass fire cycle takes over. The higher altitude, higher precip. areas are where fires can do a lot of good.
A very good thing, out here small controlled burns keep the risk of serious out of control wildfires down.
From a firefighters point of view, more prescribed burns would have reduced the fuels that the arsonists are torching in So CA that have taken a serious toll on property and lives. And many plants are fire dependent for reproduction. From a hunters point of view some of the very best places to hunt is in the burns after they start to regrow...
Stop Global Whining
From a firefighters point of view, more prescribed burns would have reduced the fuels that the arsonists are torching in So CA that have taken a serious toll on property and lives. And many plants are fire dependent for reproduction. From a hunters point of view some of the very best places to hunt is in the burns after they start to regrow...
Stop Global Whining
L
LOWCOUNTRY
Guest
I have seen over by fillmore and koosharem where the BLM and Forest have been doing a ton of railing with a dixie harrow as well as a bull hog. These both seem to be very effective and they are great looking open mosaics. Also looks like they've been seeded heavy the cheat grass reaally isnt that prevalent there. The deer and Elk are loving it.
I work for the USDA and got my degree in Range Mgmt. I can tell you that in 99.9999% of all cases that Rx fire is a great thing. it is natural that creates what is called a mosaic pattern that wildlife thrive on. if opens up feeding areas while leaving nesting/breeding/hiding cover. It starts the lands successional state over and you get those plants that are often phenomenal forage for wildlife. If you design a Rx fire correctly you can improve wildlife habitat so much faster and better than using heavy equipment or chemicals. plus its alot cheaper!
F
flinger
Guest
Kimbersig
How much do you think it costs per acre?
How much do you think it costs per acre?
well it depends on the fuel load, type of fuel, etc... a grassland area that you want to improve for antelope would probably cost around $6/ac. if you move up to the mountains with juniper or pine trees it could be a little more. i would say about $10-12/ac. if you have to do alot of work like stacking ladder fuels to get a fire to carry through a solid stand of juniper, cutting wide mineral lines, etc... it could go higher. the problem up in the mountains that has severely overgrown stands of juniper or pine is getting a fire to carry. if thats the case it is usually best to go in and thin and then burn. hope that wasn't too much info. basically it depends on what the place looks like. could be as cheap as $6/ac and has high as $100s/ac if you have to do some mechanical clearance to get ready for a fire.
>Blue,
>
>What type of plant seeds were
>planted that can out compete
>cheatgrass?
ya i would like to know that too. to my knowledge there isn't anything that can out compete cheat grass. you have to either nuke it with chemicals or hammer the crap out of it when it comes up each year and get off and let the other species grow.
>
>What type of plant seeds were
>planted that can out compete
>cheatgrass?
ya i would like to know that too. to my knowledge there isn't anything that can out compete cheat grass. you have to either nuke it with chemicals or hammer the crap out of it when it comes up each year and get off and let the other species grow.
B
Blue
Guest
I did a little search and found this, "Forage kochia is one of the few plants found that can be seeded into cheatgrass ranges, establish itself, and over time out-compete
cheatgrass".. I don't have much experience working with Forage Kochia, but from what I have seen when crested wheat grass is planted and gets established it will out compete cheat grass.
cheatgrass".. I don't have much experience working with Forage Kochia, but from what I have seen when crested wheat grass is planted and gets established it will out compete cheat grass.
I'm all for fires and clear cuts. My only problem with clear cuts is that slash piles are not created, and burned as much as they use to be. A lot of wood is wasted in my opinion. People should be encouraged to go into sale areas after they have been cleared to clean up salvageable wood.
H
hoytme
Guest
While helping on a sheep transplant a couple of years ago out on Antelope Island I was talking with the Park biologists as well as the DWR biologists about a variety of topics during the 'down' time. One topic that came up was cheat grass. I was told they are using the island as a test lab for forage kochia and how it responds to fire and how it does after fires. The prevailing theory is that it is more fire resistant than other plants, is beneficial for deer/elk, and competes with cheat grass better than 'traditional' forage.
J
Jazz
Guest
>I'm all for fires and clear
>cuts. My only problem with
>clear cuts is that slash
>piles are not created, and
>burned as much as they
>use to be. A lot
>of wood is wasted in
>my opinion. People should be
>encouraged to go into sale
>areas after they have been
>cleared to clean up salvageable
>wood.
There may be some wood wasted but there is much more wasted when the fires burn and then there is "zero" salvage after the fire. Numerous examples of this scenario over the past 10-15 years and more coming as stands that need thinning are not being reached. More fires and lots of money to be spent putting them out instead of thinning and providing jobs and dollars for schools, roads, etc. On a related note their would also be tremendous gains in localized water supplies if junipers were cut. I've seen a few private land owners in N. California do this and within one year they had traditional springs show back up.
>cuts. My only problem with
>clear cuts is that slash
>piles are not created, and
>burned as much as they
>use to be. A lot
>of wood is wasted in
>my opinion. People should be
>encouraged to go into sale
>areas after they have been
>cleared to clean up salvageable
>wood.
There may be some wood wasted but there is much more wasted when the fires burn and then there is "zero" salvage after the fire. Numerous examples of this scenario over the past 10-15 years and more coming as stands that need thinning are not being reached. More fires and lots of money to be spent putting them out instead of thinning and providing jobs and dollars for schools, roads, etc. On a related note their would also be tremendous gains in localized water supplies if junipers were cut. I've seen a few private land owners in N. California do this and within one year they had traditional springs show back up.
