Resident Elk Tag Quotas

[smokepoler63]

What are your thoughts on elk zones that have quotas on either A or B tags or both for residents? I bought a Diamond Creek Zone 'A' tag this morning at 10:00 AM online. When I tried to purchase one for my son at around 10:35 (work got in the way) the tags were sold out. I understand why there is a quota for the 'A' tags in this zone.

The frustrating thing is that Idaho Fish and Game sells 36% (643) of the total 'A' tag quota (1789) for this zone to non-residents in December of the preceding year for this hunt. If non-residents are limited to a maximum of 10% of the tags in any given controlled hunt drawing, why does IDFG sell 36% of the total tags for this zone to non-residents? I wouldn't have a problem with this if the resident tags were unlimited, but resident tags have a quota of 1146. Wouldn't it be reasonable to sell 10% of the tags in a zones with quotas to non-residents, and 90% to residents. These tags sold out in under 40 minutes, why does such a high percentage of the total tags go to non-residents. I'm not anti non-resident, I hunt out of state myself, I just don't believe that over 1/3 of the total tags for a zone should go to non-residents.

 

[jetsled]

IDFG is looking to change that as we speak. They have proposals on the board now. Needs to happen asap.

 

[backcountryID]

That would frustrate the hell out of me. Glad to hear changes are proposed.

 

[Blank]

We have bitched and moaned about this problem for the last 6-8 years. Get the same lip service every time it is brought up, they are trying to balance the monetary impact of not selling that many NR tags, with some other scheme. I hope they really do change it, as it is not falling into their own guidelines.

 

[Deepcolor]

Smokepole, you were online to buy your tag and couldn't take the extra 2 minutes to buy your sons tag? Sounds like you had a golden opportunity and pissed it away.

I agree that something needs to change but you had the chance and you let er slip by.

 

[BPKHunter]

Sounds like you all are making a solid argument for making these hunts all LE Draw vs just limited.

 

[backcountryID]

Unlimited number of folks that want to chase elk, and a finite number of elk to chase.

I hope we never have to change from general hunts. A potential option would be changing season dates so the bulls aren't exposed to general tag pressure during the rut. By and large, we stopped general buck hunts during the rut years ago.

Of course we all love to chase elk with bows in September. I don't know that a change is necessary where I hunt at this time, but I can see the need for change at some point, especially if NR numbers increase.

 

[YZF_88]

I thought it was a done deal this would be changed starting next year. No doubt it will go through (and it makes sense). The transfer of 459 tags from NR to R will give you a little more latitude for a while.

I did the same thing this year. Busy morning and missed out for my kid back in December. Not a big deal. He's just as excited to tag along.

 

[Dman]

I still don't understand the reasoning to create a race for a limited amount of tags when we have a complete system already in place to fairly distribute these tags through a random drawing.
Maybe I'm just being dense, but what is the problem with more LE units in the drawing system?
If you really want that hunt put in for it, should be a slam dunk for a draw. If you wanted to try for another LE hunt put one of these as a second choice. With the amount of tags allocated to some of these hunts, almost 1800 A tags (non+Res) in this specific example above. There would likely be second choice tags available. You would also be able to put in as a group, so scenarios such as this could be eliminated as well...
Really, it's already limited so, it's hard to consider it a "General" tag in the first place.
Would also be easier to initiate the 10% Non-Res cap as this is already occurring within the established drawing system now. IFF, that is the direction they are heading...
Hmm...just thinking about this now...perhaps the only reason it is not in the LE draw pool now is so F&G can skew the Non-res vs Res tag allotment...Putting these in the 10% cap pool would certainly reduce revenue...Hmmm

 

[IDbulls]

Simple solution. Raise the resident prices. Certainly we can afford an increase to better fund the fish and game. Second, make the non resident hunters apply for all tags as controlled hunts, no OTC (like other states do). Lastly, cap the tags by zone for NR and limit the numbers to no more than 20% of the historical total number of tags. This would allow better crowd control by eliminating situations where NR flock to a zone resulting in 30-40% of the tags being sold to NR. The revenue loss from less tags would be offset by increase in resident tag prices and application/license fees for unsuccessful NR applicants. We can't afford to be everyone?s fall back for DIY OTC BS elk hunts every year.

 

[backcountryID]

I'm all for a complete draw system for NR.

It's a real slippery slope to start turning general hunts into controlled hunts. Lots of options I'd like to see implemented before we have to go that route.

 

[jetsled]

+1 on that.

 

[hawkbill]

This is all designed by Corn McDonald the head biologist for Magic valley. I agree what a joke at 10:00 in the middle of the day , like always the venders computers jamming up, kids in school to make it tough for them to apply. We sportsman are paying the game and fish, but we've lost all control of the to big AG. Corn Mcdonald is owned by the farmers and his arrogant attitude is going to catch up to him, hopefully soon before he destroys our trophy units.

 

[andrew12gauge]

>This is all designed by
>Corn McDonald the head biologist
>for Magic valley. I agree
>what a joke at 10:00
>in the middle of the
>day , like always the
>venders computers jamming up, kids
>in school to make it
>tough for them to apply.
>We sportsman are paying the
>game and fish, but we've
>lost all control of the
>to big AG. Corn Mcdonald
>is owned by the farmers
>and his arrogant attitude is
>going to catch up to
>him, hopefully soon before he
>destroys our trophy units.

Man I get that you don't like Corn McDonald but last time I checked kids aren't in school at 10 in the morning in July

 

[IdahoHntr]

>I still don't understand the reasoning
>to create a race for
>a limited amount of tags
>when we have a complete
>system already in place to
>fairly distribute these tags through
>a random drawing.

Because that is how we lose opportunity. They move this hunt to a controlled hunt draw and for the first year or two they issue the same amount of tags that they did before. But then what do you know, people start complaining because they are drawing this tag in the controlled hunt drawing and it isn't any better than a general tag that they can buy OTC. They'll start yellin for the fish and game to cut tags. So the fish and game (who actually does listen to public opinion) will then cut tags until it is more in line with other controlled hunt tag allocations. Now we have a whole ton of displaced hunters who go crowd another general unit until the cycle repeats itself.

General OTC hunting is what spreads hunters out and prevents crowding. When you give it up to a controlled hunt, you will never get it back and opportunity will only go down in that area.

 

[twsnow18]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-13-19 AT 12:51PM (MST)[p]Pretty easy to block off 15 minutes on your calendar once a year to log on and try to get a tag.

You have 364 days to plan. It'll be the same date and time next year. +1, kids aren't in school in the summer.

I had 7/10 @ 10am written on my calendar in my office, 2 reminders on my iphone calendar and 2 alarms set on my phone. We went 4/4 and all got tags somewhat easily.

I guess some guys just didn't want one that bad. Input usually equals output, not always, but usually.

Leave the system as-is, we want to move as slowly as we can towards draw units. It's inevitable with our population growth, but we want to slow it as much as possible.

Would you guys really want to burn an application on a diamond creek or a sawtooth tag? I personally wouldn't. At least now you have a chance at those pretty good general tags and can still apply for hail maries.

 

[Dman]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-19 AT 02:19PM (MST)[p]A) You've already lost opportunity. Remember it's limited quota masquerading as a general hunt.
B) Fish and Game can add/delete tag numbers with the swipe of a pen as it is.
C) People gonna complain no matter what... already some pretty average controlled draw hunts on the list.

I just think there has to be a better way to distribute the available tags. As it is, it's all fine and dandy IF you have 5 different reminders that on 10am you better get on your computer and get your tag, cause at 10:30am it could be over.
That's great if you work in an office and blow half your day on the internet anyway. But what if you work outside, out of cell service, say a logger. Or if you work EMT/Fire and have a call at 9:45am? Or if you started your app and got interrupted at work, and 30 short minutes later you are out of luck (See first post here!)
Maybe what they need is a Limited Quota "General" Hunt Draw for these tags?
I don't know, but as demand increases, which most likely it will they will need to come up with something better than the current race. Just my opinion. Good to hear what you others think though...

Just read the other thread on essentially the same thing... Maybe GemStateJake has a point too...
remove the quotas and let things work themselves out. Placing these quotas generates unjustified attention to these general units. Just let em be general and if people don't like it they won't come back and in a few years things may stabilize. HMM..

 

[IdahoHntr]

>A) You've already lost opportunity. Remember
>it's limited quota masquerading as
>a general hunt.
>B) Fish and Game can add/delete
>tag numbers with the swipe
>of a pen as it
>is.
>C) People gonna complain no matter
>what... already some pretty average
>controlled draw hunts on the
>list.

Name a controlled hunt with over 1000 tags offered. Better yet give me an example of any hunt that has gone controlled and then offered more tags or opportunity. Going controlled is a one way street.

This is exactly why there should not be a quota. General hunts have a way of managing themselves. You'd probably have less hunters in there 5 years from now if you removed the quota. GSJ has is exactly right. The quota adds more fuss, just like a lot of the unlimited controlled hunts for deer. If you just left them general opportunity you'd probably have less hunters and better hunting.

If there just HAS to be a quota (there doesn't) then I don't see anything wrong with the system. If it's important enough, you will take a morning off and get it done. If you don't have a job that you can't take a morning off with months of advance warning then how in the world do you go hunting in the first place? If you choose not to do what it takes to get a tag then, just like everything else in life, somebody else wanted it more than you and you shouldn't be upset about that.

 

[N_Corey]

Make it controlled unlimited 1st choice option only. If you want to hunt that zone you'll get it but you have to commit to it.

 

[smokepoler63]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-19 AT 06:27PM (MST)[p]Twsnow18, really, pretty easy? I work at a government research nuclear reactor. We had university nuclear research collaborators, a DOE Facility Rep, reactor operators, a facility manager, and my manager in my office conducting a pre-job briefing during this time. Maybe you can make time at your convenience, I couldn't. Don?t be so quick to judge, or to spew ignorance. My point is, why can non-residents purchase 36% of the tags in this hunt 8 months before residents can even buy one, especially when they're limited to 10% of tags on controlled hunts. I'm against turning general tags into controlled hunts, I just think for any unit with a tag quota, only 10% of that quota should go to non-residents.

 

[Dman]

IDHunter... Unit 18 elk, it does happen... But yeah, none of them have over 1K tags to play with, I get it.
But there is always going circumstances like Smoke ran into... life happens to sometimes get in the way of our hobbies...
Perhaps unlimited draw and allow second choice on it. then you can put in for your special honey hole unit and still be guaranteed a tag in one of these other units. That would essentially be one tiny step down from an actual controlled hunt, but still not technically OTC.
Smoke, I agree, if it's limited in any way, then 10% cap on NR.

 

[BrianID]

smokepoler63,

I'm currently a nonresident of Idaho and totally agree that nonresidents being limited to 10% of the tags is fair in any unit that limits residents.

I think the best solution is to remove the quota on all of the elk zones. When a quota is put in place and the tags sell out in a short period of time, it effectively became a controlled hunt. The only difference is you ?draw? the tag by being faster than others by purchasing because they are busy at work.

F&G used to have a quota for nonresidents deer hunters in the SE Idaho units (76, 75, 77 & 78). Those nonresident deer tags would sale out quick because everyone thought it would be the best area. After removing the quota, it didn't significantly change the nonresident hunting pressure in those units. When you limit a tag, it just attracts attention and makes others think that must be the area best area to hunt.

Nonresident tags are already limited to about 12,800 tags. Without any quotas there may be some units that have a higher than 10% nonresident percentage but creating a quota just attracts attention to that area.

 

[twsnow18]

If it's
>important enough, you will take
>a morning off and get
>it done. If you don't
>have a job that you
>can't take a morning off
>with months of advance warning
>then how in the world
>do you go hunting in
>the first place? If you
>choose not to do what
>it takes to get a
>tag then, just like everything
>else in life, somebody else
>wanted it more than you
>and you shouldn't be upset
>about that.

+1

You have 364 days of advance notice. It?ll be next year on July 12th at 1pm.

I agree. If you can't fib and sneak out of work for 1 hour for a ?dentist appointment,? than how can you take a Tuesday off of work for the sawtooth opening day.

And please don't tell me your not committed enough or realize the importance of hunting opening day on the sawtooth B tag.

 

[twsnow18]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-19 AT 10:50PM (MST)[p]Again, if you can't afford to set aside 1 hour with 1 year of advance notice to try to get a tag, how are you gonna get work off for opening day?

Oh you don't hunt opening day? Well there we go, your not committed. Your output is equaling your input, or lack there of.

By output I mean your lack of getting a tag and then getting online and complaining you can't get a tag.