Resident helping NR hunt wilderness
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Soj51hopeful
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I would guess the opposite, i would consider packing out part of hunting.
BuzzH
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What statute are they violating?
Mallardsx2
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I think is 8.9.34.55i. "Being an a$$hole."
You should be familiar with it. You break that law constantly.
Don't overthink this. IME, NR's put far more thought into the whole Wilderness rule than the G&F does. Not sure a call is going to get you anymore clarification than what you got on this website.
I would agree with your original assumption. Once your tag is notched the "hunt" is over. After that you have game retrieval obligations.
nfh
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I would have the resident get the free guide license from the game and fish. They will take his or her info and answer a couple of questions.
Now if something later happens you have a paper trail.
BuzzH
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The resident guide keeps the guide license in their possession. I suppose the NR could keep a copy, but it's not required.
A NR is not going to get cited for hunting without a resident guide for simply retrieving their animal from a wilderness area. Same would apply to retrieving a camp.
nripepi
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What happens if they don't retrieve all edible meat? Do they both get fined or just the NR? If both, then I think the resident needs to be with the meat until it crosses the line. If just the NR gets fined, then I guess the res can go on their merry way after the kill.
If you were hunting in a non-wilderness area and your friend left half his elk in the field, would you get a ticket for wanton waste?
The obligation for meat retrieval is on the licensed hunter not the resident guide. Might be different for a paid guide or mentor hunter situation, that I am not certain of. The resident guide obligation is to accompany the licensed hunter while they are hunting big game in a Wilderness area.
BuzzH
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Yes.
nfh
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Yep. All the time.
Sparks Shooter
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We had one ride into our camp and eat us out of house and home. He must have been hungry or my venison stew is better than I give myself credit for. All my interactions with Wyo wardens have been great. Even the one that pranked me big time.-----SS
mntnguide
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All the wardens I know would rather be with their horses in the wilderness checking camps and hunters, than in town dealing with the phone ringing constantly
JakeSwensen
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I have met them in the wilderness, they seem happier in the back country than at the trailhead or in the office.
NR need to learn how to trade hunt services as the statute allows for you trading guide services. “An exchange of guide services shall not be considered compensation for the purposes of this section.”. Fishing, hunting or anything where a Guide would be beneficial can be exchanged in exchange for getting a Resident to guide in Wilderness.
Soj51hopeful
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I wanna hear about this prank.
MuskegMan
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Yes. Unit 61 elk this past fall. I was with a guide/outfitter
nripepi
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Doesn't seem clear cut if a paid guide would get a ticket but a resident guide wouldn't. Why is that different?
I think you would loose that argument with the Wyo warden. Most would agree that packing out down game is part of hunting. Can we say Citation, please.
jm77
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I don't think so. Wyoming regulation does not define what you are doing after the animal is down as hunting.
270Whatelse
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I asked the warden and they said packing meat is not hunting.
Blindnonresident
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I've hunted Wyoming's best units 5-6 times.
Great place.
After paying a lot towards Federal taxes I'm not a huge fan of that rule.
Great place.
After paying a lot towards Federal taxes I'm not a huge fan of that rule.
BuzzH
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Federal taxes have nothing to do with State wildlife assets.
What Buzz said in his above post pretty much seals the deal. The nonres wilderness law is a hoax! It was designed so nonres hunters would be safe hunting big game in wilderness.
In reality it is a ploy for outfitters to secure exclusive hunting rights to guided big game hunters inside wilderness. The loophole is that the same nonres if accompanied by a Wyo res that may or may not have any wilderness experience may accompany him.
Outfitted sheep hunt prices are inflated to over $15,000 since outfitters can ask any price they want since nonres are forced to hire them or find a res guide with a lot of time available to accompany him.
It is also a joke having a $150 or whatever price fine plus a slap on the fanny if proven guilty of trespassing into wilderness without a guide!
It’s a sad regulation that should just be eliminated since it has no purpose other than to support outfitters.
In reality it is a ploy for outfitters to secure exclusive hunting rights to guided big game hunters inside wilderness. The loophole is that the same nonres if accompanied by a Wyo res that may or may not have any wilderness experience may accompany him.
Outfitted sheep hunt prices are inflated to over $15,000 since outfitters can ask any price they want since nonres are forced to hire them or find a res guide with a lot of time available to accompany him.
It is also a joke having a $150 or whatever price fine plus a slap on the fanny if proven guilty of trespassing into wilderness without a guide!
It’s a sad regulation that should just be eliminated since it has no purpose other than to support outfitters.
If NR's spent one tenth of the time they spend crying about the Wilderness rule on internet forums, on actually trying to get this law overturned they might be succesful. But they wont! They will continue to wait for someone else to do it. They might donate to the cause if some hapless dude from MO gets nabbed for it and fights the ticket but they wont actually start the fight. Those that have the stones to instigate the fight aren't spending any time on the internet complaining. They are too busy making things happen in their lives.
Most ironic part is no one is stopping them from starting the fight. From the sounds of these discussion over the last decade it seems the web warriors want @BuzzH to start the fight.
SDBugler
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Mule
I agree with what you are saying. I have in the past sent emails to lawmakers in other states but about 90-95% of the time they fell on deaf ears because I don't vote in that state.
In the past when I had written to the same lawmakers in my home state I usually got a replay of at least thank you for your comments or maybe a follow up question or a comment back.
My past history with other states is a few yeas old. Maybe things have changed since then. Maybe they did read my emails and consider them, I don't know. But honestly, your post made me rethink that "maybe" they made a difference. But your post got me thinking that I should probably up my game again and reach out even if they choose to ignore it. It can't hurt to try again!
Bill is my senate rep and told me essentially the same thing that he isn't concerned about what non-residents think. Maybe that's why I keep voting for him. As for whatever non-rezi's contribute, if we go 90/10, I'll gladly pay the non-resident special cost if it'll increase my odds of drawing a tag. I know most of my hunting friends would do the same.
SDBugler
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WB
Well you just burst my bubble to try reaching out again. LOL
I guess that is why NR's don't spend time trying to lobby for change as Mule mentioned.
I found it funny that this senator openly said that he is only interested in his Wyoming "friends" - not about Wyoming "residents" or even his Wyoming "constituents" that he is supposed to represent.
BuzzH
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Wyoming legislators should not concern themselves with whining nr hunters.
Most of my emails to Wyo Legislators get no response. A few will consistantly reply but most are crickets. Best way for me has been to speak to them face-to-face. I am on a couple of Committees and Boards that these folks want to speak with and get the support of. Talking to them about my G&F issues isn't really the point of these meetings but I find it much more entertaining than discussing the latest Legislation to bolster Wyoming businesses.
Getting a Legislator to sponsor a bill to remove the Wilderness restriction at the request of a NR is a damn tough row to hoe. Best of luck to you. Its a good fight, if not a winning one.
jm77
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I know the Senator and that's the way he describes his constituents and Wyoming folks.
SDBugler
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I totally agree with you. I wasn't planning to lobby to change this law. I don't agree with it, just like many on here, but I agree it has deeper implications. Rumors I have heard is that many, many years ago when this law was established, it was a compromise with the outfitters in lieu of set aside licenses. And I don't think either residents or non-residents want that can of worms opened again.
Who's whining? Maybe I should say some on here are "whining" because they post comments that they don't have 90/10 for D/E/A? I've mentioned this before. This is a "forum". Just because people post comments about an issue doesn't mean they are "whining".
Forum: "a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged"
BuzzH
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The Legislators view it as non-resident whining, watch the video WB posted again.
If you feel compelled to try to change WY statute, go for it.
I think it's a horrible law, but a lot of Residents support it and WOGA and the outfitters support it as well. That's who the Legislature represents.
What you're trying to do is like me asking your State Legislature and Game and Fish to repeal the law/regulation where you discriminate against NR's for the first week or whatever it is where we can't hunt pheasants.
Isn't happening no matter how much I may want it to. Trying to work with your legislature as a NR to make it happen, its a waste of my time (and rightfully so).
This disillusion that NR's should have any kind of sway in WY for our regulations or influence with our commission or legislature is laughable.
I sure don't feel that way about my influence in SD, ND, MT, ID, NV, etc. but a whole bunch of NR's feel that way about WY.
It's a strange dynamic that I can only conclude is partially our fault for being so generous with NR's in the past. That was a mistake that has led to entitlement. I think its also a product of the work that many Residents have put in to making sure we guide our Department, Legislature, and Commission to keep quality hunting and fishing in this state. We're obviously the envy of the West, other states don't have the NR angst like we face in Wyoming.
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Might be just the bargaining chip folks are looking for to get what they desire.
BuzzH
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Yep, say good-bye to 50-75% of NR DIY tags so you can get access to Wilderness areas.
If I were a NR hunter, I would rather have more tags with the inconvenience of having to work around the Wilderness guide law than less tags but unfettered access to wilderness.
In particular considering the quality of the hunting is probably as good, if not better, outside designated wilderness for almost everything.
The one species that the Wilderness rule is a burden, IMO, is bighorn. That really cuts down on options for the NR hunter. But in reality, the vast majority of folks hunting bighorn would really be served well by using an Outfitter especially in those wilderness areas. This goes for residents as well.
SDBugler
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I agree with this as well as mountain goat. Two of the four goat tags available to NR's are in unit 3 which is mostly wilderness and a lot of the goat country in unit 1 (one NR tag) is wilderness. Yes I know there are goats in non wilderness portions of those units but it limits where a DIY non resident can hunt them. I used to throw my name in the hat for goats before the allocation change and those where my two units that I always applied for even with the wilderness limitations though. I put in for those units because the odds were better because guys were avoiding having to hire guides.
SDBugler
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I think you summarized things well and hit the nail on the head. WY has been VERY generous in the past and I think that is what is causing a lot of angst lately. It is human nature to hate change when those changes hinder us individually. AND the changes have been pretty drastic and coming at a fast pace to catch up and level the playing field with what is happening in other states.
I disagree to a limited extent. I think NR's should have some say in NR specific issues. For example, the fact that there are no NR sheep tags available in the random draw has nothing to do with residents, nothing to do with herd management, nothing to do with resident opportunity, nothing to do with outfitters, and for the most part is only an issue impacting NR's.
I totally agree.
Just my own personal opinion but if I was a WY resident I would likely be against the wilderness law and here is my reasoning. I love to get away from roads and ATVs and so the majority of my hunts in other states are geared toward hunts in wilderness areas. There would actually be fewer people and traffic in the wilderness without the guide requirement as many of the tags allocated to the NR's would be DIY guys and the majority of them would certainly not be going 5+ miles deep into the wilderness to hunt. Many of the hunts in the wilderness are so hard to draw that they are becoming a once in a lifetime for NR's. Therefore the success rate for NR's would go down with more first time DIY hunters and likely the number of high end bulls/bucks would go down since they would be "learning" the unit on there hunt and not have years and years of experience. Thus leaving more high end animals.
Maybe I'm wrong on this theory?
Again, I'm not trying to change the law. That is up to the state of WY (including guides, hunters, non hunters, ranchers, business owners, industries, etc.)
BuzzH
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Totally agree, it does make it hard for DIY NR sheep hunters, but like you also said, I bet 95% of the NR sheep hunters would use a guide even if the Guide Law disappeared.
Wilderness rule was detrimental to resident general elk hunters prior to the removal of the 7250 cap. It artificially congregates NR gen hunters to non-wilderness gen areas. Now that the gloves are off on NR gen tags, G&F would just propose more NR gen tags if they were able to spread out more.
I know more than one resident sheep hunter that tried to tackle those wilderness areas around YS by themselves only to call on the services of an outfitter later in the season after finding out those areas are no joke.
There was a nr random sheep tag, it was just taken by a nr prior to the draw.
nfh
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Happens every year. The hunt is tough when the rams timber up.
BuzzH
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Heck yes, I did 2 solo trips and could have killed rams both times. But, the only reason I was able to find those rams is because a friend, that posts on this board, who knows as much about those units as anyone alive, helped me out.
Further, he was good enough to haul me around for many days with his horses including the day I shot my ram. Not saying it would have been impossible on my own, but I'm very thankful and grateful for my friend's generosity in helping me.
It's doable without a guide, but you better be tough and you better talk to the right people before you attempt it.
It's a rough piece of real-estate and not for pansies I can tell you that.
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