Resident/Non-resident license allocation

ColoradoOak

Very Active Member
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1,920
The CPW Commission will once again take up the license allocation issue at the August 6 meeting in Durango. You may remember that the issue was discussed last year during the 5 Year Season Structure discussion, but was ultimately tabled until this year:

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID32/4020.html#.VbaRfrkU92Y

Two weeks ago the Colorado Outfitters Association presented CPW with a proposal for increasing CPW revenue, which included the following options:

1) Equal opportunity between residents and non-residents in the limited draw for deer, elk, pronghorn and bear licenses. Those with the most preference points draw first, regardless of residency. No cap on non-residents.

2) A 50/50 split of limited deer, elk, pronghorn and bear licenses, with the non-resident draw occurring first.

3) Return to a 60/40 across the board resident/non-resident allocation, with a "hard cap." This means that non-residents would be guaranteed 40% of deer, elk, pronghorn and bear licenses, and may draw them with fewer preference points, or as a second, third or fourth choice, over residents.

4) Recruit 13 more resident hunters for each lost non-resident hunter if residents get more than their existing guaranteed allocation in the draw.

5) Pass a resident fee increase in the legislature.


The topics sure to be discussed at the Commission meeting in August include:

?hard cap vs. soft cap for resident/non-resident allocations

?resident/non-resident splits for limited licenses (80/20 and 65/35), including whether to leave them at those ratios, as well as how to determine which hunt codes are 80/20

?hybrid draw - leave as is, eliminate it, increase the points required for a hunt code to have licenses available in the draw

In anticipation of this discussion, the CPW staff has prepared this document with background and statistical information on the subjects. There is a lot of good information there, and I would recommend that anyone interested in the subject read it thoroughly. The COA proposal of 2 weeks ago is referenced in this document near the bottom of page 3.

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Co...sion_BG_Allocation_Info_August_2015_final.pdf

The biggest issue of contention that I expect is how to determine what hunt codes are 80/20 vs. 65/35. Options include:

?leaving them as-is, meaning that 80/20 applies to hunt codes that required 6+ preference points for residents to draw, based on a 3 year average (2007-2009)

?leaving the formula as-is, but recalculate with the most recent data (2013-2015)

?increase the resident preference point requirement for eligibility (to 7+, 8+ or 9+) and recalculate with the 2013-2015 data

I believe the Commission is leaning towards increasing the resident preference point requirement and recalculating, so that there is relatively little increase in the number of hunt codes that move from 65/35 to 80/20. This is based on comments made by the Commission at the September meeting.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have spent far too much of my time looking at the data. If you have an opinion on what he Commission should do regarding the topics above, you should email them ASAP before the meeting at [email protected]
 
nontypical, how does option 1 sound for Wyoming license allocations as well? I would appreciated having equal access to Wyoming's limited licenses, with no preference to residents.
 
Well, just my luck. Finally get to apply in 2016 as a resident apparently just in time to see the rules of the game change in favor of the non-resident and a prospective cost increase for licenses. As a 30+ year non-resident consumer of Colorado big game hunting, I can see the inequity of representation for the non-resident hunter in the rule making process -vs- the fees/revenue/boost to the local economies generated by the non-residents.

It's a contentious issue no doubt. I remember the time when there was no draw and then the draw started and the best deer opportunities seemed to be the new Ranching For Wildlife program which was initially open to non-residents. About the time I had 7 or so points and could qualify for the best RFW deer hunts, they changed the rules on me and excluded non-residents.

And so it goes.
 
wow, equal split. That cant be serious.

80/20 is far more generous than any other state. Not to mention the 65/35.

Increase resident license fees if you need more money.
 
"Colorado Outfitters Association recommend to the CPW Commission"... What, the Commission can't research their own alternatives or contract out to a 3rd party firm for recommendations and an unbiased opinion. Irritating would be an understatment that they feel compelled to do as the Outfitters Ass. Says. If they feel compelled to raise fees then they should do it across the board with parks,fishing, and anything finacially supported from the CPW. Plicks....

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
What percent goes to out of staters now? Never forget if your out of state you can hunt elk here every year with no draw, is that taken into account?
 
outfitters won't quit until they control EVERY tag in the state.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
>What percent goes to out of
>staters now? Never forget if
>your out of state you
>can hunt elk here every
>year with no draw, is
>that taken into account?

This is all about a "shortage" of money, not what is fair.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Oak,

Good question about Wyoming. We don't have preference points for residents for elk, deer and antelope so there are no guarantees or even enhanced likelihoods that we'll draw a deer, elk or antelope license. I'm 40 years in and just drew my first quality license. I'm way ahead of that in Colorado as a nonresident. Seems to me that the "random" draw favors some people and other never draw.

I drew a second choice antelope in a lower quality area again this year and have not had a quality antelope license since 1991. This is the first decent elk license I've had since 1999 and I've only had one limited quota deer license in 39 years.

As a nonresident, you can do much better than that in Wyoming. And if you look at the odds for sheep, moose and goat, nonresident odds in those max pools and even in the random draw are better than they are for residents in many to most areas.

I've advocated for something more similar to Colorado for years because it seems that the same people draw those "random" licenses year after year. For example, a friend of mine who is a biologist for G&F drew high quality deer, elk and antelope licenses last year. (I figured the odds on that at well over 1,000 to 1.) He also draw a sheep license in his first year of eligibility. I have not drawn that many quality licenses in my lifetime. But as a nonresident with preference points, I'd be nearly guaranteed a quality license in a few years. The random draw just has not worked for me.

So in a sense, nonresidents have it pretty well in Wyoming.
 
>This is all about a "shortage"
>of money, not what is
>fair.
>
>
>txhunter58


It's not about a shortage of money for COA, but it is for CPW. COA is just using it to push their agenda. But if resident hunters really want to push back against an increase in NR license allocation, they better step up to the plate and demand a resident fee increase somewhere in the neighborhood of 50%.

ICMDEER, I agree that WY is the most generous state to non-residents after CO. My only point was that nontypical supports the notion of equal access to licenses for R and NR in Colorado, but I doubt he would support the same thing in his own state.

tailchasers, I commend the COA for taking their proposal to CPW. It wasn't requested by CPW. You, or I, or the Governor, or the president of Zimbabwe can take their own proposal to them. COA is just looking out for their own interests, which seems like something most resident hunters in the state have little interest in doing.
 
"It's not about a shortage of money for COA, but it is for CPW"

Sorry, should have made that clear, definitely the CPW

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
COA is an interest group that speaks with one united voice to the Commission. Resident hunters like me, not so much. They have a specified Board member, Robert Bray, who appears to have much mojo on the Board, due to M O N E Y. Without similar influence, disorganized resident hunters will just continue to speak softly through smaller, much less well-funded constituencies like CBA, and an at-large Commission member. And we will continue to lose access, licenses, influence.

I remain in favor of an increase in resident license fees, for the reasons stated above. We also need to unite our numbers in advocating for resident hunting rights. We lose ground waiting for our Commission to do right by resident hunters.
 
IMC, if it makes you feel better I can't draw anything as a resident of WY either, even while I watch guys around me draw 1,2,3 tags here and there . . .

I believe residents should have more opportunity at licenses in any state. If you want the same benefit, move there. . .
 
As I read this I know this is a hot issue and the thing I'd like to think is everybody is or should be a true sportsman, willing to lend a hand, this article just tries to divide resident verses non-resident. I know it's just a proposal, but I'd bet the animal rights activist just sit back and laugh. "Say even the hunters can't get along," but we can. Some of these units are geared strictly for the wealthy and outfitters bar none.
 
Oak, I see what you are saying but an appointed commission such as the CPW should be seeking recommendations from independant 3rd parties if a change is believed necessary especially with a change such as this with such presidence and significance. By not doing so the commission is opening themselves up to bias and not truly fulfilling the official duties as they should. Listening to the Outfitters Ass. is one thing as they have the right to offer up public insight and commentbut to use just this groups recommendations is unethical to say the very least. I sit on enough boards, commissions, and committees to know that by not seeking an independant 3rd parties input with an impact such as this can have without fully researching the option that heads would fly and rightfully so. I will submit my comments to the CPW commission along with my recommendations in the hopes they make a sound decision not adversely impacting the state hunters who already are paying for the use of this resource. Once again other options are out there but yet they fail to do so as all the see is "whats in it for me". The biggest issue i see is like what was stated about the lack of organization amongst the average sportsmen. However it should not require an organization to get a response or ear from the CPW commission.I have personally made phone calls, written letters, and sent emails to these people on numerous ocasions and not once have I been given the privilege of one response. While each bit of correspondence to them has been non confrontational and prefessional in nature. So from my perspective I see a huge short fall from the commission to really make the average sportperson feel like they give a crap which to me is a snub. Again all they seem to want to hear is "whats in it for me" since they have a special interest with the Outfitters Ass. and selling more tags to nonresidents... How about once they give something significant for the average sportsperson. Then maybe they could earn a little bit of respect where the average guy might be more likely to bend and give a little more.


"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
Nobody who stands to make a financial gain through their own decisions should be allowed to sit on the Wildlife Commission, but here in CO they seem to be the only members that get appointed.

If Montana can operate with half the revenue of the Colorado CPW, than certainly we could do something different here. But like any Gov't dept it always wants more, more, more $$$$$$$
 
Just wait until they follow NM or 10% outfitter set aside. I am from the corrupt state south and I do not agree either with a 50/50.

Good luck and hope you all have better luck than we did in NM!
 
>Just wait until they follow NM
>or 10% outfitter set aside.
>I am from the corrupt
>state south and I do
>not agree either with a
>50/50.
>
>Good luck and hope you all
>have better luck than we
>did in NM!

We already have something very similar we have a 20% set aside for land owners.... Off the top before any of us even get a chance to apply.

It is crazy.... It used to be 15% until people were concerned about the allocation and ultimately we lost even more tags when we called for a review!
 
Co Oak...My comments were tongue-in-cheek; and a jab at those nonresidents who cried when Wyoming threatened to make more of our tags available to resident hunters.

You know I've been applying in Colorado for many years..point creep and Huntin' Fool, MM, and all the other mass media out there have been making sure I didn't draw for the past 12 years! It would be nice to see better draw odds for me from a purely selfish standpoint. I also see how wrong this would be for Colorado resident hunters. Those changes are much too drastic..to the point of being ridiculous.

I would never support the same stuff in my home state, either...but then, nothing like that would ever get introduced here-it would be shot down before it saw the light of day.

If I was a Colorado resident, my phone would be burning up the batteries right now...
 

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