Resident points HB0042

My first thought is naw, fam.

Then I look at the money it will raise and it is a tougher call.

Still, think I will comment when it opens.
 
Sponored by: Representative(s) Sweeney, Barlow, Brown, Duncan, Haley, Harshman, Henderson, Loucks and Paxton and Senator(s) Anselmi-Dalton and Bebout
 
I strongly encourage all
WY residents to oppose any sort of
Point system. The only result of a point system is a lack of opportujity. As time
passes, everyone will have less
Opportunity.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-19 AT 04:50PM (MST)[p]Cant promise this will be my only post on this thread, but I'll likely not comment on it again.

This issue keeps being brought up because there is essentially a 50/50 split on those that want a resident point system and those that don't.

After having fought this bill the first time, I have concluded that the only positive that came from it was JM77 and I met for the first time and have since become good friends. Also found out that we largely agree on just about anything hunting in Wyoming and have real similar outlooks on what hunting should be. We also have spent a lot of time on some very important issues in Wyoming that make the implementation (or not) of a point system pretty trivial in the big picture. We have worked on, and successfully dealt with issues that really are important for the longevity of wildlife and hunting in Wyoming.

Yet, it seems to be a passionate and divisive issue for some in Wyoming, either pro or con.

There are some pro's and some con's to implementing a point system.

But, its no longer my fight one way or the other...those that feel its important, knock yourself out.

I've drawn a lot of great tags all across the country under both random and preference point systems.

At this stage in my life, with more hunting seasons in the rearview mirror than those in the windshield, I'm not going to waste my time on this issue.

The only thing I cant believe is how "hard" it seems for the bill sponsors to come up with a bill that actually has a chance of passing and makes sense, I don't think this one is even close.
 
Having read the Bill I can sure see why BuzzH made the last sentence in his post, as that bill is as clear as mud!
 
I am confused. They are setting it up like the NR for residents. There will be a fee for every point. But am I reading that all points will get to be assigned however the hunter wishes?

Can someone a little better help sort it out?
 
Buzz over the years I have always enjoyed your post, and your thoughtfulness (even when we were on opposite sides). I understand the point you made with more in the rear view. However do you have childern? That is a huge concern for me. How are we setting things up for our childern? In Colorado, I have seen our home deer hunting unit climb in points. To the point now where my daughter will likely only get one decent deer tag before she leaves for college.

At the very least, if you are not fighting this fight personally, can you help other understand what is wrong with this bill?

Is there any specific beyond the normal arguments against? Thanks...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-19 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]In addition to HB42:

In was on the Sheridan news today that a local State Senator (Bo Biteman) plans to introduce a bill to implement a bonus point (not preference point) system for resident elk/deer/lope. He said it would be similar to MT & Nev system in that the bonus points would be squared each year (3rd year = 9 points, etc.) The bill has not yet been posted on legisweb.

Here's an audio link: https://www.sheridanmedia.com/news/biteman-talks-con-law-game-and-fish-bills103007
 
Wyoming residents didn't want to participate in a meaningful fee increase when the Non resident hunter's fees were increased substantially. Well, The Gov will always get "their" money. you can bet on that. They are going to make a load of money off residents now. lol
 
>Wyoming residents didn't want to participate
>in a meaningful fee increase
>when the Non resident hunter's
>fees were increased substantially.

I'm not going to say there aren't residents that don't want license fee increases, but this statement is so off base and it's premise flawed, that it's no wonder sometimes we can't carry on meaningful conversations on this forum.

This kind of misinformed conjecture is also a classic example why so many on both sides of the PP issue don't have a real clue what they are talking about.

I apologize for my bluntness.
 
>>Wyoming residents didn't want to participate
>>in a meaningful fee increase
>>when the Non resident hunter's
>>fees were increased substantially.
>
>I'm not going to say there
>aren't residents that don't want
>license fee increases, but this
>statement is so off base
>and it's premise flawed, that
>it's no wonder sometimes we
>can't carry on meaningful conversations
>on this forum.
>
>This kind of misinformed conjecture is
>also a classic example why
>so many on both sides
>of the PP issue don't
>have a real clue what
>they are talking about.
>
>I apologize for my bluntness.


Amen jm77?
 
Well, residents are against pretty much every increase.

In November in Lincoln county there was a ballet initiative for adding a 1% sales tax to fix some of the roads, and it was voted down.

It is just a way of life out here.
 
>Well, residents are against pretty much
>every increase.
>
>In November in Lincoln county there
>was a ballet initiative for
>adding a 1% sales tax
>to fix some of the
>roads, and it was voted
>down.
>
>It is just a way of
>life out here.

Not really. We see many residents willing to foot a meaningful increase in fees, just not a sharp increase in one year.
We see the need.
Raising taxes a whole different story.
Keep it random.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-19 AT 05:55PM (MST)[p]As a resident, I am against PP/BP and all for a fee increase if need be. However, if the fees are raised I would like to see the resident/NR split for all species at 90/10. Do this and I will pay whatever is needed.

For the record I haven't drawn a LQ deer or elk tag in 5 years,or a first choice antelope in 4. With that being said we still have it pretty darn good in Wyoming, since I was still able to hunt all three species either on a 3rd choice, or a general unit.
 
>Having read the Bill I can
>sure see why BuzzH made
>the last sentence in his
>post, as that bill is
>as clear as mud!


Topgun and BuzzH:

Both of you have indicated the PP bill is unclear, etc.

Can you briefly explain what you think is unclear about the bill?

I am done hunting moose and sheep and will most likely only hunt general deer and elk hunt areas and an antelope hunt area that is not hard to draw, I really don't care one way or the other how this goes.

Thanks in advance if you decide to respond.

ClearCreek
 
I posted this request for info, but it ended up buried within the threads and not at the end of the list so I am posting it again so it may be better seen this time.


Topgun said:

>Having read the Bill I can
>sure see why BuzzH made
>the last sentence in his
>post, as that bill is
>as clear as mud!


Topgun and BuzzH:

Both of you have indicated the PP bill is unclear, etc.

Can you briefly explain what you think is unclear about the bill?

I am done hunting moose and sheep and will most likely only hunt general deer and elk hunt areas and an antelope hunt area that is not hard to draw, I really don't care one way or the other how this goes.

Thanks in advance if you decide to respond.

ClearCreek
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-19 AT 01:05PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-19 AT 01:05?PM (MST)

Going to be changes made at the commission level if the bill passes.

Any changes or clarifications made that aren't specified in the bill (which they most certainly are not) will impact both R and NR and the entire point system when its implemented at the commission level. The department has already made the case to the commission that there will NOT be 2 separate systems for R and NR preference points.

But, like I said before, I'm not going to argue one way or the other regarding the bill. Others can spend their time arguing for or against...not my pig, not my farm.

However, if the bill passes, then I will make sure (at the commission level) that the point system allows, and does not allow, certain problems that exist with the NR point system. That will impact the current NR system as well, but, that's just the way the ball bounces.

This is the exact reason, IMO, that Sportsmen have to be careful when they ask the Legislature to intervene in Game and Fish issues on their behalf.
 
>However, if the bill passes, then
>I will make sure (at
>the commission level) that the
>point system allows, and does
>not allow, certain problems that
>exist with the NR point
>system. That will impact the
>current NR system as well,
>but, that's just the way
>the ball bounces.
>

Dang it! I burned 3 vacation days and boat load of gas on the NR elk license allocation non-sense. I have a feeling this will hurt more.
 
It's amazing to me that any Wyoming resident would want any type of a PP system in their state after seeing how all the other states out west that have any type are so screwed up that in many a guy will be lucky draw a tag in their lifetime! Just looking at the NR system in their own state should convince them to leave things alone that this Bill would change.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-19 AT 11:36AM (MST)[p]I was told the Bill died in Committee this week, but I can't find anything on the House website to verify that!
 
Marburg, you are wrong, but thanks for telling us how we are thinking/wanting. Most of those I know don't mind paying more, however, we want to see a 90/10 split. Raise the prices, but put more tags in resident hands.
 
Top gun
I'm curious.
You say states width preference points
Are screwed up.I get that it looks terrible
On paper waiting 20 years to draw a tag.Do you think a state like Idaho width no points system is any better?Do you think you draw any faster?
I don't know if they give a actual number
Of how many people put in for each unit.
Do they?
There are just way to many people
wanting a small amount of tags no matter what.
Explain if you would.
 
The hell with points...you will always have point creep.. Go with oil or similar(once a decade)based on demand.
 
Something no one has mentioned is without some sort of point system or waiting period after drawing tags its possible for some to draw several tags while others may draw none. As high demand tags become tougher and tougher for Wyo residents to draw I imagine many residents will complain when they don't draw tags for years and years while their neighbor may draw several tags? Should there be an advantage to those that continue to apply vs those that have drawn tags or just start out applying? It sounds like this really isn't important to Wyo residents?
 
Whether or not anyone agrees with a point system or not, anyone making the claim that residents need a point system or else they wont draw...that person is clueless.

I've lived here for 19 years and I've never been without an elk, deer, and pronghorn tag, not once.

In fact, I've never been without multiple elk, deer, and pronghorn tags.

Any resident not hunting at least buck pronghorn, buck deer, and bull elk and multiple doe/fawn pronghorn, cow/calf elk, and doe/fawn deer is doing so strictly by choice.

I've never been upset with having a couple buck pronghorn tags, general elk, general deer, and a couple extra cow/calf elk tags in my pocket. Gave up shooting doe pronghorn and mule deer a long time ago (my choice, not because I cant draw).
 
You may be picking up multiple general, cow, doe, and easy draw tags but what about high demand limited draw tags? If you have no complaints about not drawing high demand limited quota tags....no problem!
 
From what Ive heard, guys on the east side of the state want points more than on the west, especially for elk. There arent any general areas over there and they dont want to drive to hunt.
 
Jims is right on point with this. I like the point system here in California. The Eastern part of the state is a draw with preference points. Myself and allot of others I know had put in to the drawing before preference points were allocated and never drew while some relatives or friends were drawing several times. Made some think it was rigged. Now with the point system 10% of tags are allocated for anyone and the rest go to those with the highest points. It works here as far as I'm concerned. Have no idea what Wyoming residents want, but I hope it's a good deal as I plan on retiring there.
 
Why not just a straight bonus point system where for each point you get 1 more chance? That seems like the most fair system to me for persons on both sides of this debate.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-19 AT 09:39PM (MST)[p]All the comments, but one, by citizens on the Wyoming Legislature website are telling their House Legislators to deep six the Bill and leave things alone! It didn't do any good, as it shows it was passed and sent to the Senate today.
 
Mike, are you sure about that? I don't even see where it has come out of committee yet, let alone had 3 readings in the House.
I've been following it on wyoleg.gov. Do you have a link to your information? Thanks...
 
>Why not just a straight bonus
>point system where for each
>point you get 1 more
>chance? That seems like the
>most fair system to me
>for persons on both sides
>of this debate.


Texas has a true bonus point system and I believe most hunters don't understand how it works. They think it's a true points system like Colorado. Now a bonus point system could be a way to "hook" hunters into the system without drastically limiting new or low point holders' chances of drawing.

I noticed WY changed their point buying system because of confusion as to when the point was applied to their account.
 
>Mike, are you sure about that?
> I don't even see
>where it has come out
>of committee yet, let alone
>had 3 readings in the
>House.
>I've been following it on wyoleg.gov.
> Do you have
>a link to your information?
> Thanks...

I have no idea how I came up with that unless I screwed up a number.

JM77---Can you possibly post a link for it dying due to no second, as I can't find a thing now on that website past where it says it went to the Travel Committeea week ago?
 
>I have no idea how I
>came up with that unless
>I screwed up a number.
>
>
>JM77---Can you possibly post a link
>for it dying due to
>no second, as I can't
>find a thing now on
>that website past where it
>says it went to the
>Travel Committeea week ago?


There is no link because there was no vote. Not sure why they don't update the status in this circumstance, but the bill is dead.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-19 AT 12:26PM (MST)[p]>
>>I have no idea how I
>>came up with that unless
>>I screwed up a number.
>>
>>
>>JM77---Can you possibly post a link
>>for it dying due to
>>no second, as I can't
>>find a thing now on
>>that website past where it
>>says it went to the
>>Travel Committeea week ago?
>
>
>There is no link because there
>was no vote. Not sure
>why they don't update the
>status in this circumstance, but
>the bill is dead.


Thanks Jeff! I was all over that site to no avail and agree that they should let the public know exactly what happens at each step. IMHO it would have been very simple to put a blurb up as to exactly what happened that caused the Bill to die when right now it appears it's sill under study for a vote.
 
Just curious, why the 90/10 split recommendation? Is this greed or does the math add up? Seems to me with only 500k residents Wyoming needs more non-resident dollars. I would like to know how many resident hunters and non-resident hunters there currently are each season. I suspect if it goes 90/10 a resident tag that takes a couple points to draw would take 20 years for a non resident. I know that game departments don't always make the right decisions but I can't imagine them passing legislation that would cut their budget that far.

Oregon has non-resident quotas that are even worse. That is why most hunt application services recommend not applying in Oregon. I have hunted Wyoming 3 times now and will likely hunt it 3 or 4 more. I feel they do a great job with there resources. As for residents having a point system, I feel it is up to them to decide. I just can't imagine Wyoming Fish and Game limiting non resident tags further than they do right now. I don't feel that the resident dollars alone can satisfy the Fish and Game budget
 
>Seems to me with only
>500k residents Wyoming needs more
>non-resident dollars.

We don't need more NR money. We will take it but as it is the math works out just fine. If it went 90/10 they could raise the price of a NR tag and they would still sell everyone of them. NR's cant get enough Wyo tags. More addictive than crack. Not saying they should but I would have no concerns of a lack of revenue.

>I can't imagine them passing
>legislation that would cut their
>budget that far.

Budget is not the same as revenue. Easy ways to make up the lost revenue.

>I
>have hunted Wyoming 3 times
>now and will likely hunt
>it 3 or 4 more.
>I feel they do a
>great job with there resources.

Others feel the exact same way which is why Wy G&F would have no trouble getting rid of fewer tags at a higher price.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-19 AT 05:15PM (MST)[p]"NR's cant get enough Wyo tags. More addictive than crack"

yea, no kidding
 
Lets use this example. You have 1000 tags to sell

900 sell for $50 and 100 sell for $500 totals $95,000. Now 500 sell for $50 and 500 sell for $500 for a total of $275,000. That is a significant increase for a game departments budget.

Now lets talk economic impact. Anytime you can have out of state money brought into your state it is good for your economy. Out of staters stay in motels, eat in restaurants, and get gas in places they never would if they stayed home. You can bet your neighbors that own those businesses would like to keep that income.

Your right, your tags are like crack and they will all sell. They can adjust the prices to make up for lost revenue. Then you can listen to all the people crying about how hunting has become a rich mans sport and we are not recruiting young hunters and our rights as outdoorsmen are doomed.

You have a good thing going for sure, I don't blame you for wanting to hoard it all for yourself
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-19 AT 07:18PM (MST)[p]Great news!! Mulecreek very well said. For those who say "we NR" keep the Wyoming economy running by buying gas, motels/hotels, etc, etc, etc. Well we, Wyoming, have over 4.1 million people coming to our state just to visit yellowstone. Our motel, restaurants, gas stations will be just fine cutting NR tags down to 10%, but thank you for your concerns.

Off topic;
Raise the resident tags fees and cut NR tags to 10%. I have nothing against NR, but we need to put more tags in resident hands. For those who whine about cutting NR tags, I ask what are you doing in your own state to help out the NR? I bet nothing.
 
Glad to hear the bill died. Preference points are great for everyone eligible to get in the race at the start.

Preference points primary purpose however is to strip youth hunters of opportunity. Not something I support at all. Look at moose and sheep in Wyoming. Kids getting into the system now have little chance of drawing a tag before their 50 plus years old.

I would support a waiting period on reapplying for a LQ tag.

I also support the concept that every resident youth hunter aged 12 and 13 should be guaranteed an any antelope tag (in a hunt area within 50 miles of their home).
 
>I also support the concept that
>every resident youth hunter aged
>12 and 13 should be
>guaranteed an any antelope tag
>(in a hunt area within
>50 miles of their home).
>

A resident youth 12 & 13, 14, 15 whatever, is guaranteed an antelope tag, and a deer tag, and an elk tag. What difference does it make that it's 10, 50 or 100 miles from home?

It doesn't matter if there were resident PP, Bonus points or just plain random, any kid that wants to hunt antelope, deer and elk in Wyoming and isn't, their parent or guardian is to blame. Period.

Please stop blaming the drawing system...

And take your kid hunting!
 
I added the 50 miles in hopes it would make the idea more acceptable to people. The idea hasn't gone over well when I have brought it up at public G&F meetings. People are concerned that the kids will take up all prime antelope areas.

Personally I would be good with all resident youth get an antelope tag. It will not have any support that way, however.
 
GrosVentre,

Yellowstone may keep the hotels and gas stations humming in and around Jackson Hole and Cody, but what about Buffalo and Lander and Sheridan and Green River and Pinedale and Worland...the list goes on and on. The big issue I think is that the Fall is a slow time of year for many of these towns compared to summer, even Jackson Hole slows down in the Fall (picks back up in the winter with skiing) and it is tough to keep a business going when you don't have year round income.

I bet individuals who own gas stations and hotels and restaurants in those areas might be against the 90/10 split? Agree or disagree?

I have fought for Sunday hunting in two eastern US states that either I reside or was born in and hunt in and that has a huge effect for non-residents to be able to hunt an extra day on a weekend. 80/20 sounds fair to me!
 
>I added the 50 miles in
>hopes it would make the
>idea more acceptable to people.
>The idea hasn't gone over
>well when I have brought
>it up at public G&F
>meetings. People are concerned that
>the kids will take up
>all prime antelope areas.
>
>Personally I would be good with
>all resident youth get an
>antelope tag. It will not
>have any support that way,
>however.

I don't know how to say it any more simple then this: every resident youth in Wyoming that wants an antelope can get one. And if you somehow still don't think that is true, explain to me why nonresidents get fully half the antelope tags in Wyoming?
 
I would agree that many businesses would be against a decrease in the NR allocation. However, that does not make it a legitimate concern. Businesses are typically against anything that affects their bottom line regardless of the magnitude of the impact. Same goes for citizens of a state. How often do mil levy increases get voted down? When was the last time you thought an income tax increase on you was a good idea?

Bottom line, if the survival of your business hinges on 20% NR allocation of tags and any reduction would cause it to fail then it was not a healthy business to begin with.
 
Just to be clear, I'm not to concerned with what Wyoming does with there tags. I joined this conversation because I am a NR that hunts there and have points saved for future hunts. If Wyoming gets too expensive or to tough to get tags I'll go somewhere else which I am sure is fine with the residents of Wyoming. It's just a hobby for me and Wyoming is a business.

The original topic of resident points seems irrelevant since the bill has been tabled. I do value the opinions on this forum so I will ask another question. If the resident/non-resident split was set at 90/10, what percentage of the tags should go to the highest point holder and how many for the random pool?
 
Maybe you should take a trip through the places you mentioned during the summer months at the height of the Yellowstone season. Plenty of people buying gas, staying in hotels, etc. We will be just fine, I promise.
 
>NR guys act like WY residents
>don't pay property taxes,get our
>fuel free, and don't eat.
>


Being out there for two months with my buddy in Sheridan every year I can attest that the cost of living is higher than here in MI. It seems like I remember John telling me his truck license plate is something like $1K a year, but I may be way off. Mine here in MI is a little over $200 a year.

I hate seeing these quarrels between residents and NRs because all it does is create ill will and no good is accomplished. I'm just happy to pay whatever I have to in order to hunt in Wyoming since they don't have to issue a single tag to any of us NRS. Peace guys!
 
If Wyoming was to not allow NR to enter the draw, there's areas that residents statistically wouldn't draw in their hunting lifetime.

Those same areas are also almost impossible for NR to draw despite the preference point system.

I hope Wyoming doesn't cut NR quotas, but it's out of my control. They should look south to Texas, we don't have any quotas on our drawings. :)
 
I haven't seen any bills about changing to a 90/10 split. Given that they are trying to raise revenue by 1) implementing pps. 2) charging to access State Lands (Sen file 145); 3) changing the hunting age from 12 to 10 (HB 205), I can't see legislature changing the split at this time. Don't know if the idea behind lowering the min. age to 10 is directly tied to a new revenue stream, but it would add $ to the coffers.
 
I think there should be quotas for non resident tags. Residents should have a advantage in their draws. Oregon has horrible non resident quotas, New Mexico isn't any better. The only reason I questioned a 90/10 split for Wyoming was because of their overall low population. No one has provided a mathematical reason for a 90/10 split. All I've gotten is "we don't need you or your money". Keep in mind we are only talking about a few residents with selfish motives. The people I have met while hunting Wyoming are as nice and helpful as anyplace I have ever been. Although nothing any state game department does anymore would surprise me, I like to think they would put a little more thought into how they divide the tags up.
 
I'll try this once since this thread is now officially been taken over by 90/10 so please read carefully.

90/10 split is about limited quota licenses.

Nonresidents get 7250 full price elk licenses in the initial drawing. Residents would get 90% of LQ and the 6% NR lose by the change in quota would be converted to general tags. Final answer: No revenue lost.

Antelope: currently half of the antelope licenses are sold to NR because residents don't buy them all. In 90/10 residents would take 10% more of the more desirable areas and NR would still get 50% of the licenses, just in different areas. Final answer: No revenue lost.

Deer: this would be the only license of the three species that would exhibit a difference in revenue with 90/10. Easy fix; leave general tag price the same for residents, but increase resident license fees for LQ tags to cover the cost difference for the 10% less LQ NR tags. Leave NR Region tags as they are. Spread over all the resident LQ licenses it would be very doable. Final answer: If residents want more LQ they should pay more for the tag and they will.

Moral: please stop telling us the G&F would go under with 90/10.
 
I never thought it would financially ruin Wyoming. I do know a lot of residents would be disappointed by how little their draw odds increased if the quota was changed to allow a lower percentage of NR.
 
Obviously there are some assumptions but using 2018 numbers i calculated a $400,000 decrease in nr revenue on elk licenses, mainly because the special gen pool ran out of apps and the remainder would come from the regular gen pool. Last year the dept added 423 licenses to get to 7250. Under a 10% cap they would add almost 3000. That addition would bring hundreds of apps into the special gen pool and easily make up the 400K. The dept would likely see a revenue increase from the nr Elk side with a 90/10 split.
 
I doubt there would be no loss for the antelope, I think you have to dive into that one a bit deeper. The non-resident might not be the smartest tool in the shed, but thinking they are going to keep gobbling up more tags in units with no public access at special and full price is sort of wishful thinking. Many of those 50% of tags are doe tags at $35 per tag as well so saying the non-resident will continue at 50% of the tags and there is no change in revenue is an unknown and unlikely. You will have to make up the revenue by raising resident tag prices or raising non-residents some more.

The general elk and deer available for residents, makes it much more difficult to understand what would happen to revenue and hunt quality and would the G&F put more pressure on the general units with more non-resident tags going forward? You are assuming that loss of 6% is going to be converted to general...do residents really want that many more non-residents hunting their general elk unit? I understand the 7,250 is in writing, but couldn't that change? It seems like it has been debated to move it up or move it down over the years. Over the past twenty years that number has stayed exactly the same while the number of elk tags has increased significantly.

The other thing that is misleading is how much better resident odds would be with an increase in tag numbers. For deer and antelope, your odds would go up 12.5%, 7% for elk. So if your odds were 10% for elk, they go up to 10.7%, if they were 50% they go up to 53.5%.

That is definitely better, but is it worth raising tag prices for resident general licenses and how about the effect it will have on local businesses and state tax revenue? Maybe it is, but someone should do a thorough study on this to figure out what is best for your state with regards to taxes and businesses and what the resident hunter wants.

How many non-residents visit WY to hunt with friends without having a tag? I do it all of the time and spend a $1,000 per year for lodging and food and whatever else I buy....and I am not sure if that is counted anywhere or not?

These dudes tried to do an analysis, but are obviously bias:
https://www.wyoga.org/pdf/2017/sout...ting-Economics-Southwick-Associates-Final.pdf

Anyways, everyone has a bias for what is best for them...the resident wants to have general licenses as well as more draw tags for them as well as low prices, non-residents want to keep tags for them and not have prices push them out of the game (I have friends and family dropping out of the points game in WY every single year because of the huge increase in costs recently), the outfitters want more non-resident tags because it helps their business, G&F wants to maximize revenue because that's what pays for their jobs...it's all good everyone wants what is best for them and that is understandable.
 
>I hate seeing these quarrels between
>residents and NRs because all
>it does is create ill
>will and no good is
>accomplished. I'm just happy
>to pay whatever I have
>to in order to hunt
>in Wyoming since they don't
>have to issue a single
>tag to any of us
>NRS. Peace guys!


Topgun got it right on this one!

I have no idea why a NR would come on here and be a turd. Most all the residents that I've talked with have nothing against NR's....until they run their damn mouth!

I have no stance on resident points (since it's all up to them) but we all know points work great....if you're first in line when they begin.

Zeke

#livelikezac
 
What I've never understood, is why people, from other states that limit NR's where they live to 10% or less of their tags, cry like babies when Wyoming Residents want to do the same.

I guess fair isn't fair?
 
Thank you buzz! I have been saying this all along. You sure didn't hear many residents in NM when they screwed the NR. I also don't hear many Utah residents screaming for more NR tags. How about the EXPO tags? I believe those tags were/are taken from the NR pool. Just saying...
 
Colo nonres have unlimited elk units for elk and 20 or 35% of the total tag allotments in limited deer and elk units. That seems "fair" to me! Colo figured out many years ago the giant revenue nonres bring to small town communities! Wyo small town economies will be the big losers! Cry me a river...yep small towns will...but what do I know...I'm a Wyo nonres!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-25-19 AT 04:37PM (MST)[p]What about sheep, moose, goat, pronghorn, and bison tags in Colorado jims?

Do NR's get 20-25% of those in Colorado?

Maybe you should start showing some love to the small towns and communities in CO by petitioning the CDOW to increase the NR allocation on those tags.

I mean, its for the small town communities and all...

Do that, and I'll never bring up the topic again.
 
Nope, similar to Wyo there are fewer tags for sheep, goat, and moose.

I'm sure your buddy the Wyo Outfitters and Guides Assoc will stand by and cut their own wrists by cutting nonres tags?
 
>Nope, similar to Wyo there are
>fewer tags for sheep, goat,
>and moose.
>
>I'm sure your buddy the Wyo
>Outfitters and Guides Assoc will
>stand by and cut their
>own wrists by cutting nonres
>tags?


This gets old when you rag about people not treating you nice and then you come right back at BuzzH here with that BS comment about WYOGA when you know exactly what his stance is and he's sure not their buddy!
 
Topgun, sorry about that! Just making the point that the outfitters are likely going to be a big hurdle to cross!
 
>Topgun, sorry about that! Just
>making the point that the
>outfitters are likely going to
>be a big hurdle to
>cross!


I understand that as do most others, but that wasn't how to make your point. It appears you didn't learn much from the BS you pulled recently on HT and got the asshat of the month from Randy!
 
>Your last post is a little
>rougher than anything I have
>posted on any website!


That was really a foolish response when BuzzH, jm77, or I could C/P the BS posts you made recently about BuzzH and Big Fin on HT and were blasted and won asshat of the month over there! The more I read some of your posts I think BuzzH was right when he said your Mom must have dropped you on your head when you were a baby, LOL!
 

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