school shooting
- Thread starter sremim
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TheGreatWhiteHunter
Guest
My prayers are with the familys, such a tragedy.
Romans 10:13
THE LORD IS MY ROCK
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Romans 10:13
THE LORD IS MY ROCK
NRA LIFE MEMBER
zekers
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,146
I cant even comprehend what those families are going through right now. I have 3 kids, 2 of which are in elementary school, and just cant fathom why anyone would harm children. WTF is wrong with people these days? My heartfelt condolences and prayers to the families and community in CT.
Utah400Elk
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,266
I am at a loss for words. My one and only child starts school next year. I feel sorry for him. It seems as if more and more there are simply Evil people. I can't fathom any reason to hurt children. I have worked in law enforcement for almost 16 years and have seen way too many jacked up things but this one really hurts. My heart and prayers go out to the victims, survivors and community.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,747
Unreal! How could anyone shoot innocent children? I pray for all the people this tragedy will effect.
F
Farms
Guest
To the families reunited with their children, the happiness of hugging that child is beyond my comprehension.
To the 18 families that are going home without their child, words cannot describe the sorrow I feel.
To the families of the fallen adults, words again cannot describe my sorrow.
To the first responders that witnessed the destruction first hand, thank you for your service and good luck in the weeks to come reliving and coping with that horrific scene.
To the piece of crap that did this, may you burn in hell!!!!
To the 18 families that are going home without their child, words cannot describe the sorrow I feel.
To the families of the fallen adults, words again cannot describe my sorrow.
To the first responders that witnessed the destruction first hand, thank you for your service and good luck in the weeks to come reliving and coping with that horrific scene.
To the piece of crap that did this, may you burn in hell!!!!
NORKALNIMROD
Active Member
- Messages
- 759
This literally made me sick. Shed tears and prayed for the victims and families throughout my workout this morning. This violence will not stop until We The Sheeple get involved and take a stand. The best training the state ever sent me to was put on by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. He warned that this would happen and continue to happen in this country as the majority of our population consists of sheep that cannot deal with or even comprehend violence and reality. The Sheepdogs can not protect the sheep as there are far too few Sheepdogs and far too many wolves running wild. The Sheepdogs hands are tied by rules and regulations that make them a reactionary force instead of a proactive/preventative one. We need to have local teams of trained volunteers consisting of civilians, LEO's and vets formed into Community Emergency Response Teams (CERT). Every school in this country should have one of these teams assigned to it. There should be no less than two of the team members on duty at the school anytime school is in. Sound crazy? If you say yes, well then I believe it is you that is crazy. This is a proven model that has been in effect for years in a country that is victimized by terrorists acts on a regular basis. I do realize this will most likely never come to be in the United States as the SHEEPLE will cry Baa!, having armed team members on campuses might intimidate or damage the developing brains of our children that would be exposed to the presence of the armed team members that are there to protect them. Yet these same SHEEPLE think nothing of letting these same children who's brains are still developing come home after school and spend hours playing violent, interactive video games where bonus points are given for "head shots" and killing "cops". The SHEEPLE of this country have no idea of the desensitizing effect this has on our children. The military and LE has known the benefit of utilizing training of this nature for many years and started utilizing it shortly after WWII by shooting at silhouette targets and 3D human targets instead of bullseye targets. This got the shooter accustomed to shooting another human. Since the computer generated/ interactive training age the military and LE agencies have used this type of interactive training extensively. The result has been a significant increase in hits vs shots taken. For most of us the thought of taking another human life is unthinkable, and it should be as that is how we are wired if we are normal. The viewing and playing of violent interactive games messes this wiring up. The human brain is not fully developed until we are in our twenties, so don't think that these "games" do not have a negative affect on our youth. For those who doubt what I say, please take the time to do a little research for yourself before you slam me. As far as gun control, thats a joke. Take every gun in this country, de-mill it and in a week anyone who wants one will have one. Drugs are illegal, hows that working? It's illegal to murder, steal, rape, etc...Hows that working. Our society has gone to crap. The government and media has forced God out of our lives as best it can, how's that working?
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
fireball77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,057
>To the families reunited with their
>children, the happiness of hugging
>that child is beyond my
>comprehension.
>
>To the 18 families that are
>going home without their child,
>words cannot describe the sorrow
>I feel.
>
>To the families of the fallen
>adults, words again cannot describe
>my sorrow.
>
>To the first responders that witnessed
>the destruction first hand, thank
>you for your service and
> good luck in the
>weeks to come reliving and
>coping with that horrific scene.
>
>
>To the piece of crap that
>did this, may you burn
>in hell!!!!
Well said !!!
My heart goes out to the families, Hold you little ones tight, tonight and always.
>children, the happiness of hugging
>that child is beyond my
>comprehension.
>
>To the 18 families that are
>going home without their child,
>words cannot describe the sorrow
>I feel.
>
>To the families of the fallen
>adults, words again cannot describe
>my sorrow.
>
>To the first responders that witnessed
>the destruction first hand, thank
>you for your service and
> good luck in the
>weeks to come reliving and
>coping with that horrific scene.
>
>
>To the piece of crap that
>did this, may you burn
>in hell!!!!
Well said !!!
My heart goes out to the families, Hold you little ones tight, tonight and always.
manny53
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,257
In my humble opinion, we can thank Hollywood and the violent video game developers, for the killings today at the elementary school, let me explain, Hollywood, they hypocritically make violent movies of people killing people, using automatic weapons and bombs, shotguns ect: and then in real life they protest against hunters using guns to harvest animals for food, that's straight up hypocrisy.
Tell me how many violent movies do you think the average kid sees in his youth not to mention the violent video games he plays on a daily basis, before there comes a discrepancy between the world of killing through fantasy games and then real life.
Slowly our kids are being drugged by violent video games and some as you see here today have lost all contact with reality, you see, after the game has been played they come back and fight the same character the next day on the video, and so on, with no consequence?s, but my friend the people and kids killed today will not be coming back they're dead! Life?s snuffed out.
The bible says in the last days perilous (Dangerous) times shall come, but I tell you it's our own societies fault these things happen and will keep happening, all in the name of freedom and making a buck!
Tell me how many violent movies do you think the average kid sees in his youth not to mention the violent video games he plays on a daily basis, before there comes a discrepancy between the world of killing through fantasy games and then real life.
Slowly our kids are being drugged by violent video games and some as you see here today have lost all contact with reality, you see, after the game has been played they come back and fight the same character the next day on the video, and so on, with no consequence?s, but my friend the people and kids killed today will not be coming back they're dead! Life?s snuffed out.
The bible says in the last days perilous (Dangerous) times shall come, but I tell you it's our own societies fault these things happen and will keep happening, all in the name of freedom and making a buck!
I think crazy people are born with the craziness... I don't think they got it from a video game..
Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
A person isnt "born" with anything. A child is born INNOCENT and pure! Get sick of hearing this excuse for people choosing to do evil. A person learns evil through lifes experiences and ALWAYS has a choice to act. This act is nothing but evil choices made by the gunman. Feel terrible for the victims and the victims families. Could not imagine what they are going through...
>A person isnt "born" with anything.
>A child is born INNOCENT
>and pure! Get sick of
>hearing this excuse for people
>choosing to do evil. A
>person learns evil through lifes
>experiences and ALWAYS has a
>choice to act. This act
>is nothing but evil choices
>made by the gunman. Feel
>terrible for the victims and
>the victims families. Could not
>imagine what they are going
>through...
Slow down, I'm saying craziness (for lack of a better word) Chemical imbalances in the brain.... I know what you're saying about choices for a sane person.. BUT, I think to do something this horrific a person has to be born somewhat off balance...A person that goes into a school and opens fire on children was bound to do something insane no matter if he played violent video games or not..
Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
>A child is born INNOCENT
>and pure! Get sick of
>hearing this excuse for people
>choosing to do evil. A
>person learns evil through lifes
>experiences and ALWAYS has a
>choice to act. This act
>is nothing but evil choices
>made by the gunman. Feel
>terrible for the victims and
>the victims families. Could not
>imagine what they are going
>through...
Slow down, I'm saying craziness (for lack of a better word) Chemical imbalances in the brain.... I know what you're saying about choices for a sane person.. BUT, I think to do something this horrific a person has to be born somewhat off balance...A person that goes into a school and opens fire on children was bound to do something insane no matter if he played violent video games or not..
Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
My wife and I actually had our first real intense debate over this. She went on Facebook and looked the guy up. It really upset me. I told her not to give that worthless SOB the attention even after he is dead. It wasn't long Facebook announced they had pulled his profile etc. due to the high volume of hits. I did as you all did. I had to actually stop and pull over when I heard this on the radio. Pure shock.
Stonefly
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,195
I just listened to the latest round of gun control speeches. I also read about some of the points of the shooting. The school teacher mother legally purchased and owned 2 of the guns (handguns) used by her son in the shooting. When the son STOLE the guns from his mother he became a felon. It is illegal for a felon to possess a dangerous weapon. He was only 20 not the legal age to own a handgun, that's 21. The death penalty didn't stop him from murdering his mother. Then after the handgun theft,underage possession of the handgun, and murder,all the laws preventing him from having the guns ,didn't stop him from going to the school and doing the EVIL acts he did there. It makes me sick when this crap happens and all the talking heads can do is preach gun control. This could be an example that gun laws only effect law abiding folks and not the pathetic scum that do these evil things
hornkiller
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,218
It dont matter how much gun control we have dumb F^#% like him will always find a way! When will people for gun control relize it?
1FastGambler
Active Member
- Messages
- 982
I agree that every child is born innocent and their behavior is a choice they make from learned behaviors.
This evil murderous bastard made a choice to pull the trigger on these innocent babies.
My eyes fill up with tears every time I think about this horrible event and I pray that all of these families find peace. I can't imagine how horrible it is to outlive your children, no matter how they come to pass.
Here is a great video about the NFL star Randal Cunningham that I highly recommend everyone watches that aired on ESPN.
[http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7208355]
Evil events like the one in CT will continue. That's what happens when God is removed from society.
Another thing that really tics me off is the media running with the Mayan calendar & the end of the world/doomsday hype.
If an evil person believes that the end of the world is about to happen... what do you think they are going to do? Crazy things maybe?
I fear that this tragic event won't be the last we see before 12/22/12.
The world is not going to end, however I do believe that Jesus is coming very soon.
My grandmother turned 90 yesterday... 12/12/12 and she passed away early this morning. Although I will dearly miss her, I am not sad that she's gone. I am happy that she is now with our father in Heaven and all of her friends and family that went before her.
She had an incredible life. Her parents moved to Oklahoma in a covered wagon from back east. She walked on the Great Wall of China; she visited Jerusalem many times and walked where Jesus walked. She read her bible every day and taught Sunday school for over 30 years.
There is a God, my God, and his son is coming soon. My Grandma is with him now and so are the innocent children that died in CT this morning.
Satan is also real and the evil men do not need to call him, he will come without being called tempting us all to do his will.
The good news is that he is easy to defeat by making the choice to do so with the strength of God thru Jesus Christ.
This evil murderous bastard made a choice to pull the trigger on these innocent babies.
My eyes fill up with tears every time I think about this horrible event and I pray that all of these families find peace. I can't imagine how horrible it is to outlive your children, no matter how they come to pass.
Here is a great video about the NFL star Randal Cunningham that I highly recommend everyone watches that aired on ESPN.
[http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7208355]
Evil events like the one in CT will continue. That's what happens when God is removed from society.
Another thing that really tics me off is the media running with the Mayan calendar & the end of the world/doomsday hype.
If an evil person believes that the end of the world is about to happen... what do you think they are going to do? Crazy things maybe?
I fear that this tragic event won't be the last we see before 12/22/12.
The world is not going to end, however I do believe that Jesus is coming very soon.
My grandmother turned 90 yesterday... 12/12/12 and she passed away early this morning. Although I will dearly miss her, I am not sad that she's gone. I am happy that she is now with our father in Heaven and all of her friends and family that went before her.
She had an incredible life. Her parents moved to Oklahoma in a covered wagon from back east. She walked on the Great Wall of China; she visited Jerusalem many times and walked where Jesus walked. She read her bible every day and taught Sunday school for over 30 years.
There is a God, my God, and his son is coming soon. My Grandma is with him now and so are the innocent children that died in CT this morning.
Satan is also real and the evil men do not need to call him, he will come without being called tempting us all to do his will.
The good news is that he is easy to defeat by making the choice to do so with the strength of God thru Jesus Christ.
M
mecham
Guest
They're in my prayers
D
Deuce
Guest
>I just listened to the latest
>round of gun control speeches.
>I also read about some
>of the points of the
>shooting. The school teacher mother
>legally purchased and owned 2
>of the guns (handguns) used
>by her son in the
>shooting. When the son STOLE
>the guns from his mother
>he became a felon. It
>is illegal for a felon
>to possess a dangerous weapon.
>He was only 20 not
>the legal age to own
>a handgun, that's 21. The
>death penalty didn't stop him
>from murdering his mother. Then
>after the handgun theft,underage possession
>of the handgun, and murder,all
>the laws preventing him from
>having the guns ,didn't stop
>him from going to the
>school and doing the EVIL
>acts he did there. It
>makes me sick when this
>crap happens and all the
>talking heads can do is
>preach gun control. This could
>be an example that gun
>laws only effect law abiding
>folks and not the pathetic
>scum that do these evil
>things
I get so tired of hearing about gun control. Seems they talked about that almost as much as the shooting itself. What's Bob Costas going to say now! My prayers go out to the victims as well as the survivers.
>round of gun control speeches.
>I also read about some
>of the points of the
>shooting. The school teacher mother
>legally purchased and owned 2
>of the guns (handguns) used
>by her son in the
>shooting. When the son STOLE
>the guns from his mother
>he became a felon. It
>is illegal for a felon
>to possess a dangerous weapon.
>He was only 20 not
>the legal age to own
>a handgun, that's 21. The
>death penalty didn't stop him
>from murdering his mother. Then
>after the handgun theft,underage possession
>of the handgun, and murder,all
>the laws preventing him from
>having the guns ,didn't stop
>him from going to the
>school and doing the EVIL
>acts he did there. It
>makes me sick when this
>crap happens and all the
>talking heads can do is
>preach gun control. This could
>be an example that gun
>laws only effect law abiding
>folks and not the pathetic
>scum that do these evil
>things
I get so tired of hearing about gun control. Seems they talked about that almost as much as the shooting itself. What's Bob Costas going to say now! My prayers go out to the victims as well as the survivers.
califhuntn
Active Member
- Messages
- 792
What a sickening and truly sad day. I hope that evil scum of the earth burns. The poor families. Everyone involved in this evil event will never be the same. The children, teachers, parents, first responders. Just sad.
manny53
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,257
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-12 AT 09:22AM (MST)[p]>I think crazy people are born
>with the craziness... I don't
>think they got it from
>a video game..
>
>
>
>
>
>Disclaimer:
>The poster does not take any
>responsibility for any hurt or
>bad feelings. Reading threads poses
>inherent risks. The poster would
>like to remind readers to
>make sure they have a
>functional sense of humor before
>they visit any discussion board.
>
perhaps i should make myself more clear, percentage wise many people who do the video game thing, don't kill in real life, but those who have damaged and weak minds do, some of the people who have done these types of killing, have one thing in common, they're on anti-depressant or illegal drugs look it it up for yourself? Columbine shooters for one....
by the way everyone has a sense of humor, until its directed at them?just saying
>with the craziness... I don't
>think they got it from
>a video game..
>
>
>
>
>
>Disclaimer:
>The poster does not take any
>responsibility for any hurt or
>bad feelings. Reading threads poses
>inherent risks. The poster would
>like to remind readers to
>make sure they have a
>functional sense of humor before
>they visit any discussion board.
>
perhaps i should make myself more clear, percentage wise many people who do the video game thing, don't kill in real life, but those who have damaged and weak minds do, some of the people who have done these types of killing, have one thing in common, they're on anti-depressant or illegal drugs look it it up for yourself? Columbine shooters for one....
by the way everyone has a sense of humor, until its directed at them?just saying
grizzmoose
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,023
Blaming video games is absolutely ridiculous. There were violent actions taking place like this long before Call of Duty and Mortal Kombat. Take Charles Whitman and George Hennard for example. While it is true that they are on the rise, it is a hard sell considering the demographic of the shooters. You only attribute these incidents to young, white males because those are the ones that get the most media.
And yes, children are born pure and innocent, but that doesn't mean they are born with normal functioning brains or emotional stability. People are quick to label these shooters as evil and pieces of sh!t, and many of them probably are. But many are also struggling with personality disorders and imbalances that prevent them from making rational decisions. There are probably some of these guys rotting in hell, but there may also be some who receive mercy because of their mental disabilities. Having a disorder that affects the brain and decision making may not be the sole factor in causing someone to act out like this, but it has to be a big contributor.
One thing for sure, I am not a judge or jury. Fortunately, they will all face judgement after this life, and I have the faith that God will judge them justly.
May the families, responders, the perpetrator's remaining family, and all people find the comfort they seek.
And yes, children are born pure and innocent, but that doesn't mean they are born with normal functioning brains or emotional stability. People are quick to label these shooters as evil and pieces of sh!t, and many of them probably are. But many are also struggling with personality disorders and imbalances that prevent them from making rational decisions. There are probably some of these guys rotting in hell, but there may also be some who receive mercy because of their mental disabilities. Having a disorder that affects the brain and decision making may not be the sole factor in causing someone to act out like this, but it has to be a big contributor.
One thing for sure, I am not a judge or jury. Fortunately, they will all face judgement after this life, and I have the faith that God will judge them justly.
May the families, responders, the perpetrator's remaining family, and all people find the comfort they seek.
This is just the work of Saten. There is no other explaination for this kind of hate.
God bless those little babies that were murdered yesterday. They are with God in Heaven. We will pray for the parents, brothers and sisters, Aunts, Uncles and friends of those who lost their loved one.
God is great and will save us all if you choose to let him.
Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
God bless those little babies that were murdered yesterday. They are with God in Heaven. We will pray for the parents, brothers and sisters, Aunts, Uncles and friends of those who lost their loved one.
God is great and will save us all if you choose to let him.
Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
NORKALNIMROD
Active Member
- Messages
- 759
GRIZZ,
I am not stating that the violent video games, movies and shows are the sole cause of this incident. However, I am stating that these are a major contributor along with the removal of God and God's values from our schools to the sharp increase in the number of incidents of this nature. THERE IS A DIRECT, PROVEN NEXUS BETWEEN YOUTH EXPOSED TO LARGE DOSES OF VIOLENT GAMES/MOVIES/SHOWS TO VIOLENT BEHAVIOR THAT RESULTS IN GBI OR DEATH. If you doubt me, do a little research. I do not know what Your background is. You could be a Psychologist or a youngster just learning the ways of the world. I have studied this issue, have 28 years of LEO experience and can say without a doubt that what I am stating is fact. Look up Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. Read some of his credentials and read some of his studies. I refer to Col. Grossman because most of the Free World considers Col. Grossman to be the expert in this field.
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
I am not stating that the violent video games, movies and shows are the sole cause of this incident. However, I am stating that these are a major contributor along with the removal of God and God's values from our schools to the sharp increase in the number of incidents of this nature. THERE IS A DIRECT, PROVEN NEXUS BETWEEN YOUTH EXPOSED TO LARGE DOSES OF VIOLENT GAMES/MOVIES/SHOWS TO VIOLENT BEHAVIOR THAT RESULTS IN GBI OR DEATH. If you doubt me, do a little research. I do not know what Your background is. You could be a Psychologist or a youngster just learning the ways of the world. I have studied this issue, have 28 years of LEO experience and can say without a doubt that what I am stating is fact. Look up Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. Read some of his credentials and read some of his studies. I refer to Col. Grossman because most of the Free World considers Col. Grossman to be the expert in this field.
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
caelkhnter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,526
As I see it, this increasingly common occurrence is an extremely difficult issue to address for numerous reasons.
First and foremost, the criminals who commit these horrific crimes are not of a right mind. So passing more laws, to regulate the criminally irrational, would not seem to have much benefit.
Yes there will be much heated debate about the need of more gun regulation, but at the end of the day, I see the bigger and more serious debate being about how do we deal with these irrational people deciding that the current end game of the day is to engage in a totally random mass murder.
I have no idea how we go about addressing this problem, but I believe that is where the real effort should be made. I am hopeful those who are experts in this area can provide helpful, (not politically driven) insight on how we can approach this ever growing problem.
First and foremost, the criminals who commit these horrific crimes are not of a right mind. So passing more laws, to regulate the criminally irrational, would not seem to have much benefit.
Yes there will be much heated debate about the need of more gun regulation, but at the end of the day, I see the bigger and more serious debate being about how do we deal with these irrational people deciding that the current end game of the day is to engage in a totally random mass murder.
I have no idea how we go about addressing this problem, but I believe that is where the real effort should be made. I am hopeful those who are experts in this area can provide helpful, (not politically driven) insight on how we can approach this ever growing problem.
C
clpeay
Guest
I train for this type of thing a few times a year and pray that it never happens. Four years ago me and other Deputies stopped a car driven by a mad man. He had 11 firearms inside his car with thousands of rounds of ammo. He was on his way to a highschool to take care of a gang problem. After he was arrested and while I was searching his car for more guns, I found his diary. Inside it he wrote about killing gang members at the school he was headed to. He planned to sit on a hill that overlooks the highschool and shoot them with a sniper rifle. My daughter attended the same school. I had never been so frightened before in all my life. I hate to think what would of happened if we did not stop that car
S
slickrock
Guest
> As I see it, this
>increasingly common occurrence is an
>extremely difficult issue to address
>for numerous reasons.
>
>First and foremost, the criminals who
>commit these horrific crimes are
>not of a right mind.
>So passing more laws, to
>regulate the criminally irrational, would
>not seem to have much
>benefit.
>
>Yes there will be much heated
>debate about the need of
>more gun regulation, but at
>the end of the day,
>I see the bigger and
>more serious debate being about
>how do we deal with
>these irrational people deciding that
>the current end game of
>the day is to engage
>in a totally random mass
>murder.
>
>I have no idea how we
>go about addressing this problem,
>but I believe that is
>where the real effort should
>be made. I am hopeful
>those who are experts in
>this area can provide helpful,
>(not politically driven) insight on
>how we can approach this
>ever growing problem.
I totally agree Nimrod. Unfortunately harming children has been with us since the beginning of time. We should be doing everything and anything we can to protect these little souls.
What harm is there with a ban on assault weapons or high capacity magazines? Why not put serious age limits on violent video games?
I don't care what it takes but this sh!t has to stop NOW.... I know it won't but we gotta try.
I'm not a religious man but I believe Jesus was there giving a hug to every child that died that day. If I didn't believe that I think I would lose my mind.
Slick
"The Road goes on forever & the Party never Ends"
>increasingly common occurrence is an
>extremely difficult issue to address
>for numerous reasons.
>
>First and foremost, the criminals who
>commit these horrific crimes are
>not of a right mind.
>So passing more laws, to
>regulate the criminally irrational, would
>not seem to have much
>benefit.
>
>Yes there will be much heated
>debate about the need of
>more gun regulation, but at
>the end of the day,
>I see the bigger and
>more serious debate being about
>how do we deal with
>these irrational people deciding that
>the current end game of
>the day is to engage
>in a totally random mass
>murder.
>
>I have no idea how we
>go about addressing this problem,
>but I believe that is
>where the real effort should
>be made. I am hopeful
>those who are experts in
>this area can provide helpful,
>(not politically driven) insight on
>how we can approach this
>ever growing problem.
I totally agree Nimrod. Unfortunately harming children has been with us since the beginning of time. We should be doing everything and anything we can to protect these little souls.
What harm is there with a ban on assault weapons or high capacity magazines? Why not put serious age limits on violent video games?
I don't care what it takes but this sh!t has to stop NOW.... I know it won't but we gotta try.
I'm not a religious man but I believe Jesus was there giving a hug to every child that died that day. If I didn't believe that I think I would lose my mind.
Slick
"The Road goes on forever & the Party never Ends"
grizzmoose
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Norkal,
Thanks for your response. I'm a 36 year old guy, with a degree in criminal justice. I am a corporate security manager. I do risk assessments, put emergency plans together, and institute security plans and policies, hopefully to make my office a safer place to work. I grew up in a home with a LEO as a father. I also grew up in the day of Nintendo, and still play video games today, including the violent ones. I don't say any of this to give credit to my words. Just thought I'd tell you where I'm coming from since you somewhat asked.
Someone mentioned putting additional controls on video games by changing the ratings. I don't see how that would do anything considering the parents buy virtually all the games for their kids anyways. Just like rated R movies. . . parents take their kids to them as well as let them watch them at home, despite the fact that they are age restricted.
I am aware of the studies that have been done, but I'm always cautious to buy off on a study from a scientist about social issues. Many of these studies are done with an agenda in mind. If a scientist chooses to conduct a study on this topic, chances are they already have their own opinion about it, and will likely find evidence to support their own position. Not all of them are like that, but many of them are. I find it hard to find valid conclusion in social experiments. You are dealing with human beings that are motivated by thousands of factors. No two people are the same and will not react equally to different stimuli. Clearly, there may be some who could be highly influenced by violent video games. There are some who have a difficult time differentiating between reality and fantasy. There are some that will be highly motivated in the pursuit fame and grandiose that will surely be the climax of their actions. So what do we do? Do we censor everything that could possibly lead to deviant behavior?
Consider all of the things that have been "proven" to result in deviant behavior. Video games, music, pornography, graphic novels, sexual flippancy. . . the list goes on and on. We cannot censor all of these. Really, if we did . . . what would all of these Campfire forum idiots post? No more skimpy pictures. Call me a prude. . . but it is porn.
I really believe that everything starts in the home. It starts with loving parents who spend time with their kids and really, really getting to know them. As you do learn more about them, hopefully you know what they can handle and what they can't. You can do your best to censor their intake based on the kid. You certainly can't prevent them from seeing or experiencing everything, but you can do your best. There is no professional parent out there. There are tons of parents out there that have done well by their kids and still have some bad apples. All you can do is try. But there are so many, many studies (which again, I take cautiously) that have shown many links to deviant behavior from kids coming from divorced and single parent homes. Especially from those w/o a father, or those with fathers who are emotionally absent. I'm fortunate enough to have an awesome marriage and have never been even close to divorce, separation, or excessive couch sleeping. For those couples who have had to go through it, I'm sure it was a difficult choice. I can only hope that those who do go through it, recognize that they need to double up on their efforts as a parent. Anyways, enough of my rant. Thanks for your comments.
Thanks for your response. I'm a 36 year old guy, with a degree in criminal justice. I am a corporate security manager. I do risk assessments, put emergency plans together, and institute security plans and policies, hopefully to make my office a safer place to work. I grew up in a home with a LEO as a father. I also grew up in the day of Nintendo, and still play video games today, including the violent ones. I don't say any of this to give credit to my words. Just thought I'd tell you where I'm coming from since you somewhat asked.
Someone mentioned putting additional controls on video games by changing the ratings. I don't see how that would do anything considering the parents buy virtually all the games for their kids anyways. Just like rated R movies. . . parents take their kids to them as well as let them watch them at home, despite the fact that they are age restricted.
I am aware of the studies that have been done, but I'm always cautious to buy off on a study from a scientist about social issues. Many of these studies are done with an agenda in mind. If a scientist chooses to conduct a study on this topic, chances are they already have their own opinion about it, and will likely find evidence to support their own position. Not all of them are like that, but many of them are. I find it hard to find valid conclusion in social experiments. You are dealing with human beings that are motivated by thousands of factors. No two people are the same and will not react equally to different stimuli. Clearly, there may be some who could be highly influenced by violent video games. There are some who have a difficult time differentiating between reality and fantasy. There are some that will be highly motivated in the pursuit fame and grandiose that will surely be the climax of their actions. So what do we do? Do we censor everything that could possibly lead to deviant behavior?
Consider all of the things that have been "proven" to result in deviant behavior. Video games, music, pornography, graphic novels, sexual flippancy. . . the list goes on and on. We cannot censor all of these. Really, if we did . . . what would all of these Campfire forum idiots post? No more skimpy pictures. Call me a prude. . . but it is porn.
I really believe that everything starts in the home. It starts with loving parents who spend time with their kids and really, really getting to know them. As you do learn more about them, hopefully you know what they can handle and what they can't. You can do your best to censor their intake based on the kid. You certainly can't prevent them from seeing or experiencing everything, but you can do your best. There is no professional parent out there. There are tons of parents out there that have done well by their kids and still have some bad apples. All you can do is try. But there are so many, many studies (which again, I take cautiously) that have shown many links to deviant behavior from kids coming from divorced and single parent homes. Especially from those w/o a father, or those with fathers who are emotionally absent. I'm fortunate enough to have an awesome marriage and have never been even close to divorce, separation, or excessive couch sleeping. For those couples who have had to go through it, I'm sure it was a difficult choice. I can only hope that those who do go through it, recognize that they need to double up on their efforts as a parent. Anyways, enough of my rant. Thanks for your comments.
NORKALNIMROD
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-12 AT 07:50PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-12 AT 07:49?PM (MST)
Stating that violent crime involving GBI/Death has increased significantly and at an increased rate since the introduction of interactive violent video games and the use of said games by our youth is fact. It is also fact that the military and LEA's utilize the same type of interactive products for training. Been there, done that. You have a degree in CJ and write P&P's, conduct audits and assessments and produce OPs and implement them at a management level. I am not trying to demean You, I am just curious, what is your hands on experience and practical application of use of force, subduing violent individuals, criminal investigations, homicides, shootings, stabbings, etc. Not saying You have not lived these things, as You probably have in order to have worked Your way into a management level job with a corporation. I am just curious, it's my nature.
I believe the biggest cause of the deterioration of this country's morals and loss of what was once considered to be "good" core values is our government's and the medias great job of removing God from our schools, movies and programs. In fact the media generally portrays those that believe Jesus is our savior as being whacked. I do agree with you that one of the biggest issues in our country is the broken family, again the result of the loss of Christian values. Unfortunately the videos, movies and programs that capitalize on our youths natural tendencies to be drawn to violence exist. And you are correct that changing the ratings would have no positive affect on the reduction of violence in our society or for that matter the reduction of youth viewing and participating in the violent interactive videos, just as outlawing "high capacity" magazines and "assault weapons" does not reduce violent crimes and massacres from occurring. This is fact also and was proven during the "Clinton assault gun ban". Only parents keeping a close eye on their children, what they do and who they run with will be able to protect and guide them away from negative/destructive influences. In regard to buying into studies, I am very skeptical of them also. Col. Grossman is no scientist, He is a soldier and a professor.
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
Stating that violent crime involving GBI/Death has increased significantly and at an increased rate since the introduction of interactive violent video games and the use of said games by our youth is fact. It is also fact that the military and LEA's utilize the same type of interactive products for training. Been there, done that. You have a degree in CJ and write P&P's, conduct audits and assessments and produce OPs and implement them at a management level. I am not trying to demean You, I am just curious, what is your hands on experience and practical application of use of force, subduing violent individuals, criminal investigations, homicides, shootings, stabbings, etc. Not saying You have not lived these things, as You probably have in order to have worked Your way into a management level job with a corporation. I am just curious, it's my nature.
I believe the biggest cause of the deterioration of this country's morals and loss of what was once considered to be "good" core values is our government's and the medias great job of removing God from our schools, movies and programs. In fact the media generally portrays those that believe Jesus is our savior as being whacked. I do agree with you that one of the biggest issues in our country is the broken family, again the result of the loss of Christian values. Unfortunately the videos, movies and programs that capitalize on our youths natural tendencies to be drawn to violence exist. And you are correct that changing the ratings would have no positive affect on the reduction of violence in our society or for that matter the reduction of youth viewing and participating in the violent interactive videos, just as outlawing "high capacity" magazines and "assault weapons" does not reduce violent crimes and massacres from occurring. This is fact also and was proven during the "Clinton assault gun ban". Only parents keeping a close eye on their children, what they do and who they run with will be able to protect and guide them away from negative/destructive influences. In regard to buying into studies, I am very skeptical of them also. Col. Grossman is no scientist, He is a soldier and a professor.
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
grizzmoose
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I don't feel demeaned. I don't have any experience with application of force. I don't come from a law enforcement background.
I'm not really sure how that experience, or my own personal career experience would make me any more or less qualified to make an observation and form my own opinion though.
Colonel Grossman has an impressive resume and is certainly more qualified than I am to speak on the topic. But, I'm not one to buy off on one person's opinion though just because they say so. There are several theories out there as to why this kind of stuff is on the rise. You could fairly state that since the introduction of violent video games, active shooter incidents have risen. Is that enough to provide a link between the two? I don't think so. You could attribute it to several other things that started during that era as well. You mentioned God being taken out of our schools etc. That could be a link. You could attribute to the sensationalism of the media.
Here is some basic data for you. Since the late 80's into earlier this year, there have been 82 incidents of what are considered to be "active shooters". Only 18% of them were perpetrated by the typical demographic of violent video game users. How many of them could be attributed to mental illness? I can't find any data on this, but it seems that many of them have a tie to it.
Now, lets take a look at one violent video game, clearly the most popular which is the Call of Duty series. There have been 124.65 million copies of that series sold, which doesnt include the latest version. Let's just pretend that every active shooter incident (82) could be attributed to violent video game users. That would indicate that less than 1/1,000,000th are tied to violent video game usage. And that is just one game. Start adding sales figures from Halo, Gears of War, Ghost Recon, Left for Dead, etc, etc, etc, etc. What is that going to do to your percentage? There are probably over a billion copies of these video game type floating around out there. Don't you think that the numbers of active shooter incidents would be much higher than 82 if video games were the cause? Again that is saying that every single one of those incidents were caused by video game violence, when really it is only likely that a fraction of that MAY have been.
Video games, guns, mental illness, bullying, pariahs, religion, terrorism, revenge. All of those have been factors in this stuff. Take your pick. You can blame this stuff on any one of them. Video games just happens to be the one that Colonel Grossman points his finger at.
I'm not really sure how that experience, or my own personal career experience would make me any more or less qualified to make an observation and form my own opinion though.
Colonel Grossman has an impressive resume and is certainly more qualified than I am to speak on the topic. But, I'm not one to buy off on one person's opinion though just because they say so. There are several theories out there as to why this kind of stuff is on the rise. You could fairly state that since the introduction of violent video games, active shooter incidents have risen. Is that enough to provide a link between the two? I don't think so. You could attribute it to several other things that started during that era as well. You mentioned God being taken out of our schools etc. That could be a link. You could attribute to the sensationalism of the media.
Here is some basic data for you. Since the late 80's into earlier this year, there have been 82 incidents of what are considered to be "active shooters". Only 18% of them were perpetrated by the typical demographic of violent video game users. How many of them could be attributed to mental illness? I can't find any data on this, but it seems that many of them have a tie to it.
Now, lets take a look at one violent video game, clearly the most popular which is the Call of Duty series. There have been 124.65 million copies of that series sold, which doesnt include the latest version. Let's just pretend that every active shooter incident (82) could be attributed to violent video game users. That would indicate that less than 1/1,000,000th are tied to violent video game usage. And that is just one game. Start adding sales figures from Halo, Gears of War, Ghost Recon, Left for Dead, etc, etc, etc, etc. What is that going to do to your percentage? There are probably over a billion copies of these video game type floating around out there. Don't you think that the numbers of active shooter incidents would be much higher than 82 if video games were the cause? Again that is saying that every single one of those incidents were caused by video game violence, when really it is only likely that a fraction of that MAY have been.
Video games, guns, mental illness, bullying, pariahs, religion, terrorism, revenge. All of those have been factors in this stuff. Take your pick. You can blame this stuff on any one of them. Video games just happens to be the one that Colonel Grossman points his finger at.
NORKALNIMROD
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I was just curious as to Your background as You stated You are in the "security" business.
Col. Grossman does not just focus on video games. As You state there are many factors, some of which we and others have hit on in this and other threads. And You are correct that at this time only a small percent of this type of crime can be directly linked to the playing of violent interactive video games. This will change with time. The point is that these games are very effective in desensitizing our youth to the taking of another human life. Unfortunately we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg in regard to the effect these games have on our youth. Much of the damage that has been done to our young to middle aged population today has more to do with the increase of violence and glorification of the violence in movies and shows during the past 30 years. It will be another 10 to 15 years before we suffer the full effect of the games being played by our youth. Again I am not saying that all kids that play these games will grow up to be mass murderers. We will see the effects of the games you listed in our lifetime. Guns are not a factor or influence, they are a tool.
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
Col. Grossman does not just focus on video games. As You state there are many factors, some of which we and others have hit on in this and other threads. And You are correct that at this time only a small percent of this type of crime can be directly linked to the playing of violent interactive video games. This will change with time. The point is that these games are very effective in desensitizing our youth to the taking of another human life. Unfortunately we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg in regard to the effect these games have on our youth. Much of the damage that has been done to our young to middle aged population today has more to do with the increase of violence and glorification of the violence in movies and shows during the past 30 years. It will be another 10 to 15 years before we suffer the full effect of the games being played by our youth. Again I am not saying that all kids that play these games will grow up to be mass murderers. We will see the effects of the games you listed in our lifetime. Guns are not a factor or influence, they are a tool.
Norkal
"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
grizzmoose
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I think you are right that we will see an increase in this kind of activity, I just don't think it is attributed to video games. I think it attributed to many, many factors both social and spiritual. Could video games play a part? It certainly could, but I get sick of people trying blame this stuff on any one thing, whether it be a game, guns, mental illness, bad parenting, absence of God in school etc etc.
