SFW for bowhunters?

Elkslayer

Elkslayer

Active Member
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I see that the last SFW thread was stopped. Some of the post's were getting crazy and I for one took offense to some of the language and word's that were used.
I am a bowhunter and really want to know what people think as far as if SFW is really for bowhunters. This is why I am still on the fence from joining.
Tony, please PM me with your reason's for leaving SFW and what you think about SFW and bowhunters. I really want to know your thought's.
Anyone else: please post your thought here, keep it clean, don't get personnel, and maybe I can learn something.
Have a Great Day!!!!
 
why Small Figured Woman,
do we have a problem?
I beleive some of the chunkies may be concerned about your inquireory.
 
Elkslayer,

Are you hoping to join a program that focus it efforts on supporting the bow hunter only? If so I don't think the SFW is your organization. I am not a member of SFW it really seems to me that they try to get things pasted that benefits all types of hunters. UBA (Utah bow hunters association) would be a better choice if you really what things to happen for bow hunters only.

Have you ever heard of the term ?Divide and Conquer?? I personally think that this is what is happening with all the sportsman organizations that you could join. The Mule Deer Foundation has there topics that they are fighting for, the Rocky Mountain Elk foundations has there topics and the SFW has there's. Don?t get me wrong I think that each of these organizations are doing great things and it is better for us to have joined the band wagon some where then to be setting back watching it all form a distances. Just think of the power that we could have if all the organizations stopped fighting amongst them selves and focused all the resources to accomplish one thing.

400bull
 
IF SFW LIKED BOW HUNTERS WE'D HAVE ELK TAGS BASED ON HARVEST PERCENTAGES. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY BECAUSE THIS POST WILL GE ZAPPED. SORRY FOR THE CAPS. PS ENJOY YEAR ONCE IN A LIFETIME ELK TAG.
 
SFW would do a good job of promoting whoever the greatest majority of there members are. Right now it is rifle hunters

Let me tell you what I know about SFW and bowhunters
in the future watch to see the statewide archery hunt ended,
just as in the same way that AR-301 ended, we as bowhunters have it too good according to SFW.

At last years RAC meetings Don personally attended each RAC and voted against every UBA proposal concerning bowhunting, which included keeping AR-301, Harvest percentage tag allocation
for archery elk hunting, Archery only once in a lifetime tags and expanding the boundries for the Wasatch front extended area.

I believe that a major change is in the works for SFW don't tell anyone but Tony ain't the only board member to leave.

There are no personal attacks in this post and all of the above are verifiable facts, check it out for youself and come to your own conclusion. I would wait to see how things shake out with SFW in the next few months who knows this could be just what this organization needs to open their eyes and bring them back to earth.

Brian I respect the ship you run and just as in the post that you locked there is no place for the kind of stuff being posted
in any type of forum.
 
My take on this subject is that SFW does a ton of good for this state but, they are primarily driven by the upper class of hunters. Everything they push for is associated with sheep and 400 elk. The average guy or child is not represented and the bowhunter has no representation. Don has done a lot of good but I witnessed him stand up at the RAC's and speak his peace about the UBA proposals. I was disapointed in him for that. If you are looking for representation for bowhunting join UBA. If your needs expand past just archery look into some of the other groups as well and pick what is best for you. Personally I don't belong to SFW because my greatest interest is in Bowhunting and they have proved to me that they don't represent archery at all. Have a great day!

Chad
 
I am going to join the UBA as I like what I have seen from them the last few years. I was also interested in the SWF if they represented the best interests of all ( bow, muzz and rifle ) as equal partners.
I am one of the ones who would like to see more Limited Entry Elk Tags for "ALL" weapon types even if a 310 bull is a big one!
I think if I had a chance to hunt a Limited Entry Unit more than once in my life, then that would be great. If I was not that lucky, then hopefully more individuals will have a chance at these tags and experience a quality hunt.
Keep the info coming and keep it clean.
Thanks!!!
 
I tend to believe that SFW is for increasing the overall population of certain species. As these populations increase, so will the quality and permit numbers, both firearm and archery.

Every RAC I have attended seems to have a stream of bowhunters touting some new program or change to the existing regulations. These changes always favor the archer. AR301 was a flawed policy that met its deserved end. Manage by units. Period. Now fight over how many permits the archers deserve. Change the Extended boundaries to include 30 more miles, which benefits the archer. Put the archery elk hunt in the peak of the rut. When they don't get what they want the Archers seem to whine and cry foul. It seems that the majority of Bowhunters fail to remember that there are 80,000 Non-Bowhunting deer permits sold each year, while the 16,000 archery permits never sell out. Now I have to go so I can practice with my new PSE, the archery hunt is only 2 1/2 months away. (Did I fail to mention that I love to bow hunt)
 
Maybe I'll see you in Id 2pt since thats the only place that gives bow hunters more possibilties. LOL Russ
 
I DON?T KNOW ALOT ABOUT THE SFW. I DO KNOW THEY DO A GREAT JOB WITH THE DEER FEEDING PROJECT UP BLACK SMITH FORK CANYON IN THE WINTER. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT EVERYONE WOULD BENEFIT FROM THAT. I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH OTHER GROUPS AND CLUBS BEFORE AND I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT THE CASH AND WHERE IT GOES. DOES THE SFW HAVE OPEN BOOKS SO THAT MEMBERS KNOW WHAT THE CASH IS BEING SPENT ON?
 
Beyond contrary belief they do have an open book policy and you can ask to see it from anyone on the executive board. You would have the best chance by contacting Byron Bateman. You can contact any of them from the SFW website. Just a friendly reminder to everyone find out the facts for yourself, listen to both sides of a story before jumping on anyones bandwagon. Get involved to make a difference. Muleynuts
 
2 point,

You are absolutly right that the Bowhunters are pushing for more opportunity. As a bowhunter you should be able to see that the ONLY way to create more opportunity for any species is to minimize harvest. The easiest way to do this is to expand opportunity with primitive weapons and minimize harvest by the most efficient weapons. It is simple math. We can only grow so many elk and deer. I feel it is UBA's duty to push for this. You don't have to agree or even like it. However, if opportunity is what you want this is the only way! Also, education is key in this push for more opportunity. If people truly understood that they could still have a quality hunt in october as a rifle hunter and actual see more tags across the board they would not be so quick to cry out. Just my 2 cents. Have a great day!

Chad
 
As a bow hunter why would we need more oppurtunity????? Why more tags??? and as far as minimizing harvest...what???? the bow hunters already have the lowest harvest...out of all the weapons.... what are you talking about???? the bowhunters should be hunting Bull elk during the best part of the rut and the rifle hunters should be in October... the success for LE rifle durring the rut is 100% I dont think the success for bowhunters is at 100% so why are you picking on the UBA
 
You are absolutly right. We have the lowest harvest and that is why we should be in the rut and the rifles out of it. It is the only way to increase opportunity. After all, everyone should get a chance or two to hunt this great herd of ours!

Chad
 
Elk horn, primitive weapons should have more tags, "THEY TAKE LESS GAME" more tags equal more opportuntiy for EVERYONE. Its not rocket science.
 
Deerhorn read my post....and then the one above it.... I agree with you...I think you read my post wrong
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-04 AT 11:38AM (MST)[p]Archery hunters get way more opportunity than the average sportsman in Utah. The archery deer season runs from mid August through mid December. We get to hunt anywhere in the state, while other weapons have to choose their region. We have better draw odds for tags. Archers receive unlimited elk tags.

Now compare the 15% harvest success with bowhunting to the 25% success for rifle and ML hunts, it is not that big a difference. The problem I have with the big archery push is it benefits the minority of hunters. I keep hearing that expanded opportunities will bring more rifle hunters to archery hunting. I say let them stay with the rifle rather than have them come to something they don't understand. I have a friend who wounds multiple deer each year with his bow, I won't hunt with him anymore, but that doesn't stop him. This is not what archery hunting needs, a bunch of guys taking up the sport just to have a better chance at getting a tag. Not everyone can or will hunt with a bow. Disabled, lazy, or older hunters can't or won't take up something they don't have confidence in and we shouldn't force them by offering carrots in front of their noses.
 
It has been my experience that if people are slob hunters with a bow they are the same with a rifle would rather have some dipstick fling arrows than lead , but in my opinion I will stomp a mud hole in either type for being careless just like I have pulled people out of cars for driving like maniacs , I have calmed down a little over the last couple years but still give a piece of my mind to anyone that is acting like a dipshtc, hope someone would let me know if I were action stupid also . We all need to keep each other in check and let each other know what is acceptable and what is not , let common sense be your guide and most have more than they use.
Sorry I have rambled on and gotten off the subject anyhow you cannot make any type of argument as to why some slob should use a rifle instead of a bow an idiot is an idiot no matter what he is shooting and an idiot with a rifle can make a longer mistake than one flicking sticks . By the way I know several guys that have shot multible deer with rifles that have never retrieved thier game .
 
Two point that is straight SFW party lines.

Lets get to the point WHAT HAVE YOU LOST AS A HUNTER THAT COULD BE IN ANY WAY POINTED BACK TO WHAT A BOWHUNTER HAS GAINED.
I am pretty sure it was you that spoke up at the central RAC opposing AR-301 and more area for the Wasatch front If it was not you I apologize but how in any way would either of these things have hurt you as a rifle hunter or any kind of a hunter, just because a bowhunter gets something doesn't mean you give something up, you said it yourself we as bowhunters are the minority.

Why is it that rifle hunters have to whine about every little spiff a bowhunter gets for hunting with a weapon that is a little over 10% effective, we as bowhunters should be crying like rifle hunters for the lack of elk hunting opportunity because the rifle elk shooters MUST have their hunt smack dab in the middle of the rut. Boy that is great for opportunity and pretty much guarantee's any hunter willing to pull the trigger a branch antlered bull. Thank god this rut hunt fiasco will probably be a thing of the past after this year.
 
I've talked to the biologist for the Pahvant and he says the southern rack wants to do away with the state wide archery deer hunt. He totally agrees with them saying the state wide hunt is killing the southern region. The archery hunt down south gets more pressure than any other hunt. He says the buck to doe ratio is at or worse than any other region. He states that the state wide bow hunt is one of the main reasons for this. The problem is that most of the people that don't draw a southern tag go buy a state wide archery tag and go south anyway. The southern region is getting hammered on the bow hunt. I was at the central rack meeting back in march and it was brought up that the southern rack was proposing doing away with the state wide archery and I could not believe one rack members response. He said lets give 5000 more tags to the state wide archery and let them go south too. What the hell kind of response is that. If it's not hurting our region who cares... I was not to impressed. Anyway---just another bone to through out there.
 
It sure is getting old hearing about the Southern RAC wanting to do away with the state-wide bowhunt! It must be those who live in the Southern Area that this RAC is speaking for? Am I right?
Give me some facts first:

1. What is the Southern Area kill % vs the other area's.

2. What is the current buck to doe ratio in all area's compared to the Southern Area.

3. Prove to me that it is the added pressure that has the Southern Area down and not the drought or the overall management statewide of our deer heards.

4. I do not hear any of the Southern Local Vendors complaining about all the gas, food, and lodging that is being taken in.

5. If you hunt the Southern Area, do you ever get off your ATV? Are the other hunters from other area's ( Not Southern ) making to much dust on the roads with their ATV's? Or, do you walk you butt off and get to area's with little to no pressure?

6. I usually hunt the Northern Area, but welcome any bowhunter from this great state to come up North and have a Great Hunt!

7. We as bowhunters ( Northern, Northeastern, Central, Southern and Southeastern ) had better stick together and stop complaining that we are not be able to shoot our deer off ATV's or that there is to much dust on the roads to see the deer.

8. There is not a unit in this state that I can't walk 30 minutes and probably not see another bowhunter all day.

9. I am sure that there are alot of great Southern Bowhunters, but I sure get tired of hearing the crying about all the pressure on the Southern bowhunt. SHOW US SOME FACTS!!!!!

10. The past has shown us that when you give something up, you most likely don'ty ever get it back. This is especially true with the DWR.

Don't make US BOWHUNTERS draw for or have to pick which area we hunt, because if we do, then we will all put in for the Southern Area since from the sounds of it must be the only place to archery hunt deer in this state.
Have a great day! Alan
 
give me a break??? the statewide bow hunt is hurting the deer hurd??? how about the 20,000 southern rifle permits...at 25 to 35% success... there are only about 20,000 bow hunters in the whole state....not all of the bow hunters go south and they only have 10 to 12% success.... you have got to be kidding me!.....
 
WileyWapiti, I was the one at the Central Rac who spoke out against AR301 and increasing the Extended hunt to Spanish Fork. I have my reasons, I can send a private message you if you want to know why. Let me know.

Elk_Horn, There are 15,000+ archery permits issued (because they don't sell out), then there are 8,000+ dedicated hunters, and an additional 15,000-20,000 youth permits which allow the youth to hunt archery. That is a total of 40,000+ possible archers. While all those tags aren't used in the Southern Region, many are. And the published State Wide success rate stands between 14-15%. The Southern Region has a 22% success rate for archery. The any weapon hunts have a 26% success rate statewide.

Best of Luck to Everyone, which ever weapon they choose.
 
Oh so you have part of 40,000 statewide at 14% and I know damn well maybe only 10,000 archer in the south compard to 20,000 rifle at 25 to 30% so we should cut archery????? that still does not make sense... you can not convice me the archery hunting is making that big of an impact on southern portion of the state.... even if the 10,000 archery is figured an adittional 5,000 youth ... your youth bow hunters are not going to have much success....
 
I apologize to you two point for the RAC remark.
Packout the proposal was to the northern edge of PROVO canyon but that is beside the point.

I would rather worry about a group that can hunt the southern region three times with all weapons than one group that hunts it once with a bow. While we are on the southern unit why is it OK to hunt a region as a dedicated hunter ( which are guaranteed tags in their region of choice ) and not have to do your dedicated hunter project hours in this region???

On the AR-301 topic it was absolutely not a flawed hunt, I know bowhunters with 8 points that had never applied for the hunt and I know people that have drawn rifle tags that were thankful that they had an option during their waiting period.
When the Wasatch unit was added bowhunters had nothing to do with it, the DWR added it on their own. When bowhunters asked for more tags it was presented in a way that no other group of hunters lost a damn thing.

Again go back and read some of the old AR-301 threads in the elk or archery forum and make you own decisions as to the SFW stance concerning archers.

In fact I will try to find them and send them to the top so you can read them for yourself.
 
WileyWapiti, No need to go back through old threads to rehash a subject that has been decided. I read quite a few of the threads and just like this one, there will be people on both sides of the fence.

The original question was if SFW is for bowhunters. I havn't said one way or the other. Seems like they propose a lot of stuff the majority of their organization wants, which majority is most likely rifle hunters. Is UBA for rifle hunters? Not really. Is the MDF for mule deer in Utah? I havn't seen anything to show they are (along with my MDF membership).

I am a dedicated hunter. I get a Central tag and hunt all three seasons. Your question sounds like a fair one, why not have them do their hours in the region they choose. I never heard why the proposal was shot down when it first came up.

Elk Horn, "you can not convice me the archery hunting is making that big of an impact on southern portion of the state". I won't try to convince you of anything. I just wanted to give some stats that were not given by previous posters. 22% success by 5,000 plus archers in the Southern Region, which is an impact when you consider the statewide rifle hunters have 26% success rate.

It sure seems like argueing on a website doesn't go very far in relating to the different ideas.

Best of Luck
 
Packout Im not trying to convince anyone that the 5000 bow hunters are impacting the hunt in southern Utah...read my post! Im saying that the bow hunters are not impacting southern Utah..bow hunting does not have a 22% success rate... at the most maybe 14%...and the youth bowhunters cant even come close to that!.... The rifle has a 25 to 30% success and I'll bet the Muzzleloader has a 35% success rate... so the rifle and muzzleloader has a greater impact on the deer herd by far than the archery!
 
Founder,
Are you going to nuke this post too? Let's not get too mean about SFW and how they have pulled the wool over alot of people's eyes.
 
I looked at the Harvest stats for 2002 in the 2004 proclamation and put together some numbers for the Southern region.

Archery (Southern Region)
Hunters Afield-5265
Harvest-965
Sucsess Rate-18.33%

The statewide Archery sucsess rate is 14%

ML (Southern)
Hunters Afield-2254
Harvest-785
Sucsess Rate-34.83%

The statewide ML sucsess rate is 25.1%

Rifle (Southern)
Hunters Afield-12563
Harvest-4094
Sucsess Rate-32.59%

The stated wide Rifle sucsess rate is 26.8%

Also in 2002 the Souther region had the highest buck to doe ratio of any other region.

I was suprised to see how well the southern ML hunters are doing compared to the state average. Archery is only a 3.3% above the state average while ML is 9.7% above. Between the two primitive weapon hunts only 1750 deer where harvested compared to 4094 on the rifle. 29.9% of the total harvest in the southern region is from primative weapons and only 16.5% is from Archery. If things are going down hill in the Southern region it is not the Statewide archery hunt at fault. Most the deer are being killed on the rifle hunt and ML has a higher than normal sucsess rate by almost 10%.

Mark
 
You guy's are absolutly right about the archers not hurting the southern unit. It is just a reason for this rifle oriented state to gripe and moan. The truth is the drought and poor range conditions mixed in with rifle hunters enjoying a 32 percent harvest based on at least 12000 hunters is the reason for lower deer numbers. If bowhunters have such an unfair advantage why don't you rifle hunters pick up a bow and enjoy our benefits. The statewide archery is not hurting anything. Have a great day!

Chad
 
Since I do not live in Utah I was not going to reply to this post. But I changed my mind. This is just my opinion, but most successful bow hunters are very serious hunters. They hunt with a bow for a challenge. Most also like to hunt away from the crowds. These same people would have no problem getting a deer with a rifle. I do not believe a serious bow hunter takes anything away from the rifle hunters. And something for you rifle hunters to think about, if you take away opportunities for the seriousbow hunter you will be competing with them in the rifle season

Bill
 
Have any of you that are posting on behalf of cutting the state wide archery hunt to protect the southern unit ever bowhunted? Has anyone hunted the pahvant on the bowhunt? I will guarantee that there was not 1 in 5.3 hunters with a deer.

New question?? I have hunted utah for 17 years, archery hunted utah for 13 years. I have never filled out a harvest report or had a phone call. I don't belive their harvest reports in a general area can be correct. How do thay get this info is it from their opening weekend check stations or what?

stealth
 
That is a good question. I think they take a sample and come up with the results from that. I get called about every other year. I wish it was mandatory to turn in a harvest report before you could get a tag the next year.

Mark
 
I have hunted the pavhant for 23 years. I grew up there and still go hunt there. I killed my first deer with a bow there when I was 17. I do not bow hunt there any more. The pressure on the bow hunt there is worse than the muzzle and the rifle hunt. The biologist also stated this fact. Say what you want the state wide bow hunt has made the pavhant archery hunt suck. I am a serous bow hunter that has killed deer, elk, antelope and cougar with my bow and hope to kill many more this is why it makes me sick to see the number of bow hunters on that mountian. That many people makes bowhunting not fun. The dedicated hunter program is another major factor on the over crowding there. They set the cap at 97 thousand, made regions, made us choose a weapon and every since then we as hunters and sportmen groups have been coming up with ways to get around it. The Pahvant has more people hunting it now that when there was 230,000 deer hunters. My family and all the people I grew up with there all agree on that. We can set and think we know it all and blame everything on the fish and game but for once I'd like to hear someone say you know what we are a bunch of dumb @$$es and don't know squat. And be thankful we even have a fish and game department that is trying to make a bunch of cry baby hunters happy.
Hunters act like the fish and game is there just to make sure we have a ton of animals to go hunt. Wrong... They are there to manage wildlife populations and use hunting as a management tool to keep the herd healthy.
So besides my own crying about over crowding, If the southern rack and the biologist I talked to say the state wide bow hunt is hurting the southern region I believe them...
I think I've vented enough today...

There have at me.....
 
I am more of a fisherman than a hunter, but I've been the several SFW banquets even thought I do not belong to that organization. They do not sponsor one type of hunting. They support bow, rifle, muzzle, etc. They try to cater to all.
 
I have archery hunted almost every western state for mule deer. And if I were to compare all the other states regulations on archery hunting I would have to say I like Utah's archery seasons and quotas. No state will go archery only we can only pray for it.Ha Ha

Stealth
 
I have one question, forget all the personal problems that some people have with some of the board members and some of the politics within SFW. When it comes down to it all we should care about is: Is wildlife and sportsmen better off with SFW around, worse off, or it wouldn't matter, they make no difference?
 
In my opinion to this point we are better off right now then we would of been without sfw,Now with that being said i believe sfw is just like karl malone. Karl was the reason the jazz got to the finals and he also was the reason that they lost. Likewise sfw is the reason utah has come to this point but they also are the reason that utah wont progress for the average guy any further. In my opinion it is a very dangerous game they are playing.

tony
 
Absolutely we as a group have been better off with SFW.
Prop 5 alone is worth it's weight in gold to us as hunters,
I have no problem with how SFW makes money for wildlife or how it is spent. SFW has done some GREAT THINGS and I am sure they will do even more GREAT THINGS.

My complaint is how SFW manages to strongarm every aspect of hunting in Utah. If you are on the opposing side of SFW you can talk untill you are blue in the face and you will have no recourse, The current president sits on the central RAC, the founder is heavily involved in appointing members for the wildlife board and this is not even bringing up the obvious political relationships with this organization. I can guarantee you I have never been to a banquet where I had to sit through a couple of hours of canidates brownosing for my vote, usually banquets are about raising funds for wildlife and habitat not listening to some blowhard politician tell you how great he is.
Now if someone pulls this kind of weight they damn sure will get their way every time. For rifle hunters this is great, for bowhunters not so great.

If SFW wanted to show that they are for the AVERAGE JOE HUNTER they should maybe propose a few things that benefit everyone not just the rich, not just the rifle crowd.

One other idea, every committee estabilished does not need to be dominated by SFW like it is now.

End the conflicts of interest and bring back a checks and balances system.
 
I will say it one more time if people dont believe an organization like SFW is not doing what they would like to see get done. Get involved for yourself and change it how you think it should be done. I have never been told no with the SFW on asking for money for a project or seeing what can be done with reducing doe tags, Helping pay for equipment for the DWR etc etc. I have been a chapter chair for two years, they have let us set up banquets the way the chapter wants to set it up. If the SFW is not for the average hunter then why do they give everybody an equal chance at winning a tag. For example Utah County gave away a Pahvant tag, Heber gives away a Wasatch Bull tag etc etc. It is entirely up to the individual chapters how they want to run their banquets. Keep in mind it is a fundraiser helping raise money for wildlife, not a free dinner and give away to reward all the people for being great hunters. Dont take somebody elses word on it get involved find out for yourself. If then you feel your money and time would be better spent somewhere else let me now and i will follow suit.
muleynuts
 
Get involved and feel the sting when you don't string along with the Vision. Been there done that.

Mulehound
 

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