SFW is Stone-cold Silent

T

TheElitehornhunter

Guest
It baffles me that the big EGOS of SFW have remained silent about the Convention Tags. I have heard from a few very good sources that SFW receives between $800,000-$1,000,000 EVERY year from this Expo tags. SFW and even MDF have failed to specify where so much as even ONE cent has gone from these permits. The mandate called for a "significant portion" to go to wildlife related projects. I would expect a group that LOVES to brag about its 'good deeds' that is spending a "significant portion" would gladly and repeatedly point such 'deeds' out. BUT because they have choosen to remain stone cold silent leads me to have more than just doubts.

Maybe SFW and MDF remain silent because if the public knew where this money was going that is raised from PUBLIC TAGS then people would want to round up the SFW and MDF leaders and hang them.

The public has the right to know where the money is going and it's about time SFW and MDF was more transparent.

I think it's time to get a few people involved that will put the pressure on SFW to open up all their financial records.
 
I'm in Idaho and we're fortunate NOT to have all those tag give-a-way programs (at least not yet). I can't say what is happening with the money but I certainly believe the Sportsmen of Utah should be given a very detailed accounting.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Dont sweat it, just think of it as good economy booster. Woops thats what Don is going to say. LOL
 
economy booster for SFW, NOT for Utah as it was sold that way. Bring people to Utah for only 4 days and the economy is booming. LOL.
 
Haven't you noticed the lack of wolves in Utah. I mean SFW by themselves got them delisted(or maybe it was a Montana congressman). SFW singlehandedly saved Antelope Island with their tag sell(or maybe the record revenues in 2010 did). SFW has improved deer hunting in this state(their will be 13,000 fewer hunters to compete with). Without them what would we do(besides have more tags, less access lost, fewer rich trigger pullers dictating Utah hunting). You Idaho guys should only be so lucky!!
 
here we go again.there is a reason they are silent it would be a federal crime to lie about where the money went.and if they told the truth it would blow us away with the money they are pocketing.i know if it were my organization and these acusations were over my FOUNDATION and there was nothing to hide like they claim. i would open my books up and put out a release for everybody to see. there is a good reason they are keeping silent. where there is smoke there is fire
 
the bottom line is they need to be packaged,sealed, and delivered OUT of the state of utah. they had their chance to be a voice for sportsman in our state and they started off good but in the end have failed miserably. they as well as mdf had their chances to take the convention tags and get some stuff done and although some good things have been i'm afraid we expect a lot more. where much is given, much is expected. if they will not step up to the plate with full transparency than lets give these tags to someone who will. the battle in the court of public opinion has been lost and its time we step up and send 'em packing. time to get more bang for our buck
 
i do have to say that the sound of crickets from their end is quite refreshing compared to their same ole pre-scripted answers that they have been feeding us for years. sure they still have a few die hards that will go down with the ship but even more of those are bailing every day.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-11 AT 08:27PM (MST)[p]I went into the SFW website to try and check the organization's tax filings and when I clicked on the line they had posted for that it took me to some service where I was completely stymied! It looks more than a little suspicious to me to say the least!!! A short popup shows that Don Peay has a salary of $154,000 and Pres. Byron Bateman has a salary of $84,000, with neither receiving any other benefits. The other things I found that are copied/pasted below is a statement they make about their mission and another about passing their last IRS Audit:

SFW is a charitable non-profit conservation wildlife organization. The mission of SFW is to promote the protection and enhancement of wildlife habitat, assist in providing quality wildlife management programs, educating the public about the role hunters play in wildlife conservation, and perpetuating the family tradition of hunting and fishing.


SFW IRS Examination Completed

The Board of Trustee of the Sportsmen of Fish & Wildlife received good news regarding the examination of its books and records by the Internal Revenue Service. The organization completed a thorough examination by the IRS, which started in early 2009 and was finalized on November 24, 2010. In the IRS examination closing letter the government confirmed that Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife still holds a valid tax exemption under the Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c)(3). This exemption is only awarded to organizations that have demonstrated to the satisfaction of the IRS that it is organized and operated exclusively for charitable, religious and educational purposes. This exemption goes on further to confirm that any individuals, corporations, trust and other legal entities may really on this exemption when they claim a charitable contribution tax deduction for making a donation to the Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-11 AT 08:46PM (MST)[p]That's exactly what I mentioned in my post! I tried every type of entry for SFW to get their filing statement and there was absolutely nothing available. That is why I made that final statement in my other post and feel that something is fishy! I would think all you should have to do is click on a line to immediately bring an entire tax filing statement up for perusal, rather than being diverted somewhere else!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-11 AT 09:38PM (MST)[p]There is a 2008 Form 990 EZ for Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, South Weber, Utah 84405.

It showed $8 of revenue and $100 of expenses. It then showed the balance of $68,082 being transfered out to S F H with the same address and a Tax ID of 87-0575540 and it is also supposed to be a 501c3. That's the last 990 filed by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.

Now they are filing under Sportsmen for Habitat DBA Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.

The latest 990 on guidestar shows total revenue in 2009 of $5,500,679, down from $7,199,190 in 2008. Net Assets grew from $5,772,391 in 2008 to $7,322,401 in 2009.

Don Peay is Vice President and shows reportable compensation of $162,000.

Significant Expenses for 2009 were $728,950 for Wildlife Conservation Projects, $510,970 for Habitat Improvement and Mule Deer Study, $305,089 for Big Game Habitat Improvment, and $218,353 of Grants to individuals.

The single biggest expense category was $919,186 for Banquet, and there was also $614,832 for Joint Big Game Convention.

Lots of money on travel compared to salary expense with $108,286 spent on travel.

They own a lot of land. $4,851,734 worth. $3.5 million of it was purchased during 2009. That left them with only $1,901,393 in the bank at the end of the year.

An odd "other asset" is $400,000 of Grazing permits.

That's about all the interesting stuff I see on the 990. It is public information.

{EDIT} - Or just check it out with the link that was posted above!
 
I'm sure their is somthing missing, I believe that there is a good possibility that Don has bought Big Gulps slurpees, and possibly even dinners for volunteers and crew. This is crazy; why should we fund Big gulps or Slurpees with expo tags? I also still think their funding an illegal war in Libya. I won't be happy until the books are surrendered to the official MM audit team and have elite horn hunter leading the audit process.
I think the property SFW bought is being used for high level radiation disposal and I'm immediately asking the MM Nuclear inspectors to look into this.
What a bunch of whining boobs, if you used your negative energy to do something positive Utah would have the best hunting in the world. If you don't like SFW and MDF don't support them. Just please quit whining about them your polluting this site. Maybe we can start a Anti SFW MDF area that you all can go whine about and the rest of us won't have to read it.
 
So what Land did they buy? Does it have public access. Or did it get transfered into a turst that is run buy the state for all to use? They bought it with money from our tags.

Buckshot
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-11 AT 07:30AM (MST)[p]
Thanks for that link for their 2008 return Robb! Now for my next big question and it is this. Why aren't they showing the correct salaries for Mr. Peay and Mr. Bateman on that paperwork, but are showing what I mentioned on that other section of their website with their two salaries alone totaling $238,000? Did their salaries change that much in just a couple years and this latest form mentioned in the above post now says Mr. Peay received $162,000 in compensation? The 2008 tax form shows $24,522 under "Compensation of Current Officers" and a few lines below that it shows $36,998 under "Salaries & Wages of Employees Not Included On Other Lines Above". Those two figures only total $61,520. What am I missing here or are these incorrect filings?

feduptwo---After reading your farce of a response, I have to ask you why you think it's not appropriate to ask pertinent questions regarding an organization that has tax exempt status like SFW? Do they have something they are covering up that is illegal? I'm asking a legitimate question here, just like people are asking about some of these "hugger" organizations that have the same status and shouldn't!!!
Also, If SFW does own a lot of acreage, I would also ask if it's open for public use and/or what is it's status? Grazing rights money also has me a little bit befuddled as well. Do you have any first hand knowledge about those moneys or the acreage you could pass on to us?
 
SFW would not do well on a grading scale of non profit entities.

Generally you like to see at least 80% of expenditures for program activities, and based on the 2009 Form 990 86% of their expenses were considered program expenses.

The thing is they are showing the $614,832 spent for the Joint Big Game Convention and $551,512 of the amount spent on the Banquet as "Program" expenses.

If you throw those out of Program expenses the % of funds spent for program expenses drops all the way down to 60% which would be a failing grade by most non profit rating scales.

Not sure how $1,166,344 of expenses for the Joint Big Game Convention and Banquet count as "Program" expenses. Not exactly what I would consider program expenses. I guess they say that the convention and banquet are educational and that's how they justify it.
 
Don't you guys know that if you ask questions then you are a bunch of whiners. If you just do what your leaders tell you to do, don't ask questions and make asinine comments about Slurpees and Big Gulps then you are really helping wildlife.

Hey Fed, do you still think the expo tags come from the non-resident pool?
 
200,000 plus went to grants to individule.. You mean this went to lobby politisions to put the right guys on the wildlife board?

I also want to know if our money is going to fund peays personal hunting preserve.


avatar_2528.jpg
 
"I also want to know if our money is going to fund peay's personal hunting preserve."

C'mon now. It's a private wildlife research center. Just like the Japanese whaling research fleet.
 
WHITETAILFREAK---If that is the truth and you can document it, I would think that alone would immediately remove them from their tax free status! There is no way they could say those were study trips or any such thing to help the game herds in the lower 48! Does anyone know where and what this land they purchased is ostensibly being used for and what ownership it has been placed under?
 
After all these years of reading about $100's of thousand of dollars spent on fighting the wolf with attorney fee's ect....

Would not those attorney fee's be considered a deduction from gross income?

Just askin'....

Robb
 
I don't have anything to hide unless you consider the illegal war on Mexico cartels that Don and myself are fighting (and SFW is funding). Then you have the nuclear waste project that Don is responsible for on the Henry Mts. I wonder if Don hires Utah residents to work at the disposal facility. I will continue to demand an official audit from the MM audit team until SFW complies with our demands, even know 1/2 of our auditors can't figure out how to get on the website to look at the books.
I was told the Expo tags come out of the non-resident pool. I was also told that is why they give non residents who attend the banquet 5 permits that residents can't put in for. If I was wrong it wouldn't be the first time. I'm sure it won't be the last.
These tags hurt the overall draw odds and that is the only legitimate argument for ending expo tags. The only difference (besides the draw odds) is the public gets a good expo to attend and some money directly benefits wildlife through SFW and MDF. No application fees come back from Nevada for wildlife so even if SFW only spends a small amount of expo funds to benefit wildlife it is better than the alternative.
 
Mike

Like I stated in another thread the Conventions Permits have never generated over $100,000,000 in a single year. To claim SFW has made $800,000 to $100,000,000 a year off of Convention tags is not correct. Infact SFW has never netted that figure with all money's combined made from the Expo!!!!!!
The dollars that are being thrown around here concerning what SFW makes off of the Expo and Convention Tags are grossly exagerated.

The money from the Expo and the application fee's charged to apply for the 200 permits at the Expo are put into SFW's general account.

It is not required that we earmark it for any one particular field. To say that none of this money is going back on the ground or for Utah's wildlife is simple not true.

I gave you examples of where SFW spends money from its General Fund.
Unless the DWR mandates that these funds be held seperate simular to the conservation tag money, any accounting would just be a matter of samantic's placing figures in a particular column!

The offer is still on the table pick a time to come to SFW's office and examine the books for yourself. I will arrange for Byron and SFW's accountant to be there to answer any of your questions.

I am no tax guy I do not know or claim to understand all of SFW's tax filling's. I will leave that to the guys who are educated and trained in that area.

SFW has property in Cache County, Sanpete County, Summit County and Beaver County. All of the property is open to the public SFW member or not.

SFW also has grazing permits on the Henry Mountains these permits have been used to benifit wildlife and other permitee's. Example one of the long time ranchers down there had no feed due to the burn. SFW allowed him to run his cows on our allotment.

Dallas I would be interested to know who SFW sent on these Moose & Stone hunts. If you can provide the name's of these individuals I can tell you if there is any validity to your claims!

SFW has sent several people on hunts. Mostly wounded vet's or people that have won them at one of the banquets or functions. Greg Stube a soldier who nearly lost his life in Afganistan will be going hunting Grizzly's in BC in May courtesy of SFW and Jerry & Troy Creyke. SFW feels strongly about giving back to our Men & Women who put their lives on the line to protect our Freedom's that to many of us take for granted.

The notion that SFW is only for the "Rich" and for putting money in their pockets is about as true as the Pope joining the LDS Church.

It was stated proir what Don's salary is I dont think $150,000 to $160,000 is getting Rich. I would suggest comparing SFW's payrol to other Org's and see where SFW falls in.

I would be willing to bet that over 90% of SFW's membership is average Joe's. You need not look any further than the current SFW Mission Fullfillment Board. Are these guys not every day Joe's? If they are not I guess I dont know what an average Joe is and I guess Im not one.

If you know anything about how SFW is structured these are the guys that make the decisions related to what position SFW will take.
Don, Ryan or Byron do not make that call it is decided by the Board who is informed by their individual chapters how to vote.

If someone has found a better way I say go for it. Get involved and go after what you believe.

Troy Justensen
 
Troy

You stated that SFW has property in Cache County, Sanpete County, Summit County and Beaver County. All of the property is open to the public SFW member or not.

How is that property identified? Is it listed as maybe a Wildlife Management Area or on a map as state owned? Is it in a trust the state has authority over? is it it managed by SFW?

Buckshot
 
Troy---Thanks for coming on here and trying to give a meaningful explanation regarding some of the concerns that have been mentioned, rather than more BS being spewed by another poster that doesn't appear to be doing anything positive for SFW here on MM! If there was less of that and more meaningful conversation like you just posted, it would go a long way for me, and possibly a lot of others, to have some positive comments to make about your organization. I have just one comment on sending disabled Vets hunting. IMHO, what you stated is very admirable of the organization, IF that is out in the open so any paying member knows that his/her money is going for more than just "on the ground" work for the good of various animal species and the environment. I think the latter is basically what I understand the organization is set up for. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. Thanks again for your time for coming on the thread to address some of the concerns of MMers! Meaningful discourse like this would go a long way to develop a more positive view towards SFW IMO.
 
**** Troy is a class-act. IMHO****

I've only met him a few times but his reputation is sound.

Thanks Troy for your contributions.

Zeke
 
Zeke---Just the two posts by Troy here would lead me to think exactly what you have stated! I hope you and the rest of the people who come here to shoot the bull have a great and Happy Easter weekend---MIKE
 
swbuckmaster-elitehornhunter:

Although I do not agree with everything SFW does, I agree with SOME of what it does. Since you two are the ones always complaining about this organization, what org would you suggest I join. Anxiously awaiting your suggestions.... Thanks!
 
Topgun,

I have absolutly no current affilation with SFW. I used to be on the Wyoming State Board, and have been a strong supporter in the past. I'll probably even join this year. I know that SFW is not perfect they are mostly on the right track.
The point of my silly posts was to point out how ridculous the "anti SFW" crowd on this website has become. I went to the Full Curl Society social this year, and although Don's speech was a little long it was very apparent to me that he has a huge heart and is a very stand up guy. What hes doing with the Full Curl thing is about the coolest thing a guy could do for the "average guy".
Hopefully Troy's post we clear up some of the bad blood and we can put some of this to rest.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-23-11 AT 06:29AM (MST)[p]I think we are all looking for the same goal line and that is the important thing. Since I'm way East over here in MI, it's harder to tell exactly what's what and I have to rely on searches and what others are saying about stuff out your way to a great extent. I'll be spending almost two months out in WY and AZ this fall and maybe I'll learn a few more of the real facts while I'm out there. It could very well be that I don't know the whole picture and I'll try to lighten up on my end a little bit! Have a Happy Easter weekend!!!
PS: Would you mind telling me why you dropped out of SFW, especially if you were on the State of WY Board? A PM is fine if you'd rather not say out on the open Forum and I guarantee it will stay confidential between us that way. Thanks!
 
Mark

SFW owns these property's. The DWR has Conservation Easements on the property in Summit County & Beaver.

Byron Bateman oversee's these property's and handles all land tranactions for SFW. Feel free to give him a call or email him.

You can reach him at [email protected] or send me a pm and I will give you a number to call him at.

Mike you are right in your assumption SFW's main goal is to protect and enhance wildlife & the hunting tradition. However along the way we have expanded into raising money for people and family's in need. I will not go into particulars because I feel thoose things are tender and we do not do them to get recognized.
I think Brian (Founder) could vouch for that!

A few years back we also started the Wounded Warroirs progam to try and give some recognition to our Men and Women in the armed forces.
I have had the opportunity to be involved in this in a limited role. All I can say is we have some great Men & Women that have been willing to pay the Ultimate price for you and me.

In SFW's mind it is the least we can do to send a few of these Hero's on some hunts and fulfill some of their dreams. I wish we could do it for all of them. They Deserve the Thanks.

I dont expect everyone to agree with me or SFW. I will do my best to answer questions that are posted.


Troy Justensen
 
How short is our memory here guys?

About 1 year ago we went through the exact same thing with SFW and accounting/draw odds, money and so on. There was a meeting held in SLC where several non SFW guys were there and asked several good points. In the end, SFW promised to do better at TRANSPERITY and odds and so on and so on. Well, one 1 year later and still the same old stuff.

NOW, dont think I that I am an SFW HATER, I am not. I was once a member like many. I do think that they have done LOTS of good things. However, I dont like how they push thier agenda and seem to always get it and thats fine. I just wish they would follow through with promises that have been made. It is interesting to listen to Tony Abbot talk about in the begining what was done and the goals that were made with the EXPO tags. But thats another story.

TROY- I did attend the Full Curl this last year and had fun, However, I will not attend another one. Reasons why: It was NOT FOR THE AVERAGE GUY. It was for the RICH. The average guy like me has never killed a Ram or ony 1 if he has been lucky. No curl guys had 1 tag. but all the guys with multiple rams/curls had more opportunity. WHY? They are the guys with money that can afford to travel and buy, the average does not. So, How does this full curl benefit the average guy? Or do I not see what the average guy is like. If I am not average, I must be scum.

Sorry, Just my 2 cents,
Landon.
 
Troy ---I have only been a member on this website for a few months and had to look up SFW when the posts got started about your organization because I knew not what it was! Therefore, in all honesty, maybe I shouldn't have even been posting stuff without FULL knowledge of what has happened regarding your organization over the last several years. I admire the group helping our Vets and, in fact, took one on a turkey hunt and hosted him on a deer hunt at my cabin in northern MI. The guy just passed a few months ago from complications of all the meds he was on due to his war injuries and his widow contacted me recently and thanked me for taking the time to do that for him when he wasn't able to do anything by himself. Our vets deserve the best and, unfortunately, in many instances aren't getting the help they need.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-11 AT 03:32PM (MST)[p]>I would be willing to bet
>that over 90% of SFW's
>membership is average Joe's. You
>need not look any further
>than the current SFW Mission
>Fullfillment Board. Are these guys
>not every day Joe's? If
>they are not I guess
>I dont know what an
>average Joe is and I
>guess Im not one.
>
>If you know anything about how
>SFW is structured these are
>the guys that make the
>decisions related to what position
>SFW will take.
>Don, Ryan or Byron do not
>make that call it is
>decided by the Board who
>is informed by their individual
>chapters how to vote.
>
>If someone has found a better
>way I say go for
>it. Get involved and go
>after what you believe.
>
>Troy Justensen
i am curious so 90% of the average hunter that makes up sfw were all for the new deer changes that got stuffed down the wildlife boards throat.the same changes that the dwr and biologist DID NOT reccomend.and they are also for purposing less limited entry elk tags so people can make money off of the 400" bulls.i was a member just 4 months ago and i never got a survey from the SFW asking for my input on the deer proposals as a sfw member.
 
Brian

No not all of the 90% were for the changes.The thing you have to remember is, there is no perfect system. We do the best we can to gather as much imput as possible. No doudt not all of SFW members were asked what their opinion was.

A lot of times we are giving information only days before the Rac meetings take place. We rely heavily upon our chapter heads to gather a pulse on what the majority of their chapter members would back. It is not always esay. With out fail someone is always left out.
When it comes to deer it is always a very heated discussion but in the end the SFW Board voted to make changes.

One thing you can count on is that SFW will not always agree with the DWR, though we feel we have a good working relationship with the division we will never be rubber stamp for their recomendations.

In our last Board meeting Alan Clark (Assistant Director) made note of this, he said he appreciated the open dialog between SFW and the DWR and admitted at times the DWR has been wrong . The same could be said for SFW we have not always been right either.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing or asking for an explanation.

It is no different for the elk. For every person wanting more opportunity there is one wating better quality. I am talking about every day people. So who is right? and what position should SFW take?

Based on the current management plan and how these units are managed SFW supported some permit reductions proposed by the DWR.

We did not support the increase in spike permits and proposed permit numbers on the Wasatch, Manti and I believe the Fish Lake.

My personal opinion is that we have room to increase opportunity and improve quality! But it is going to take some major change and some people are not going to be happy.

The notion that SFW bases their decisions on financial gain is not true! No doudt SFW back's the Conservation Permit Program 100%.
I doudt any other Western Game agency met this spring to decide where several million was going to be spent for "On the ground Projects". This does not take into account the matching funds.
Infact I would bet that most agency's were meeting to see where they could cut back due to buget short falls or cuts.

Landon

To the best of my knowledge some of the changes we talked about and agreed to have taken place. Not in the time frame that we had hoped for but SFW is more tranparent today than it was a year ago. To my knowledge the information posted on our website is equal to any other non-profit in respect to SFW's financal's.

More changes are still in the works and SFW will continue to strive to keep its memebers better informed.

As I mentioned earlier or in a different post concerning the draw odds. Until MDF grants SFW their permission to post the specie specific odds we will not post them. We have to honor our partnership with MDF.

Full Curl is a work in progress. It is a good thing. Is it perfect? No. I think you will see it modified here and there along the way.
Anything pertaining to sheep equals money. Even if you win a hunt it requires a considerable amount of money just to go ie airfare, tags, tip etc.

Even though I traded an outfitter for my Stone and in a sense it was free it still cost me nearly $6,000 in travel, licenses and tips to go. It almost put it out of my reach. Infact I am still paying for it and my hunt was 2 years ago.

So much for SFW sending all of its kool-aide drinkers on free hunts. Ha Ha

I have taken a Stone and Dall there is really nothing at Full Curl for me to win or help me obtain my dream of taking all four sheep under the current structure. But it is still exciting to watch people win a hunt of a lifetime.

I dont think it only benifits the rich. I know a lot of average people that have drawn tags at this event.

Bradon Barney
Paula Richmond
Chris Lockhead
Shawn Robb

to name a few.

Troy Justensen
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-11 AT 07:25PM (MST)[p]>Brian
>
>No not all of the 90%
>were for the changes.The thing
>you have to remember is,
>there is no perfect system.
>We do the best we
>can to gather as much
>imput as possible. No doudt
>not all of SFW members
>were asked what their opinion
>was.
>
>A lot of times we are
>giving information only days before
>the Rac meetings take place.
>We rely heavily upon our
>chapter heads to gather a
>pulse on what the majority
>of their chapter members would
>back. It is not always
>esay. With out fail someone
>is always left out.
>When it comes to deer it
>is always a very heated
>discussion but in the end
>the SFW Board voted to
>make changes.
>
>One thing you can count on
>is that SFW will not
>always agree with the DWR,
>though we feel we have
>a good working relationship with
>the division we will never
>be rubber stamp for their
>recomendations.
>
>In our last Board meeting Alan
>Clark (Assistant Director) made note
>of this, he said he
>appreciated the open dialog between
>SFW and the DWR and
>admitted at times the DWR
>has been wrong . The
>same could be said for
>SFW we have not always
>been right either.
>
>There is nothing wrong with disagreeing
>or asking for an explanation.
>
>
>It is no different for the
>elk. For every person wanting
>more opportunity there is one
>wating better quality. I am
>talking about every day people.
>So who is right? and
>what position should SFW take?
>
>
>Based on the current management plan
>and how these units are
>managed SFW supported some permit
>reductions proposed by the DWR.
>
>
>We did not support the increase
>in spike permits and proposed
>permit numbers on the Wasatch,
>Manti and I believe the
>Fish Lake.
>
>My personal opinion is that we
>have room to increase opportunity
>and improve quality! But it
>is going to take some
>major change and some people
>are not going to be
>happy.
>
> The notion that SFW bases
>their decisions on financial gain
>is not true! No doudt
>SFW back's the Conservation Permit
>Program 100%.
>I doudt any other Western Game
>agency met this spring to
>decide where several million
>was going to be spent
>for "On the ground Projects".
>This does not take into
>account the matching funds.
>Infact I would bet that most
>agency's were meeting to see
>where they could cut back
>due to buget short falls
>or cuts.
>
>Landon
>
>To the best of my knowledge
>some of the changes we
>talked about and agreed to
>have taken place. Not in
>the time frame that we
>had hoped for but SFW
>is more tranparent today than
>it was a year ago.
>To my knowledge the information
>posted on our website is
>equal to any other non-profit
>in respect to SFW's financal's.
>
>
>More changes are still in the
>works and SFW will continue
>to strive to keep its
>memebers better informed.
>
>As I mentioned earlier or in
>a different post concerning the
>draw odds. Until MDF grants
>SFW their permission to post
>the specie specific odds we
>will not post them. We
>have to honor our partnership
>with MDF.
>
>Full Curl is a work in
>progress. It is a good
>thing. Is it perfect? No.
>I think you will see
>it modified here and there
>along the way.
>Anything pertaining to sheep equals money.
>Even if you win a
>hunt it requires a considerable
>amount of money just to
>go ie airfare, tags, tip
>etc.
>
>Even though I traded an outfitter
>for my Stone and in
>a sense it was free
>it still cost me nearly
>$6,000 in travel, licenses and
>tips to go. It almost
>put it out of my
>reach. Infact I am still
>paying for it and my
>hunt was 2 years ago.
>
>
>So much for SFW sending all
>of its kool-aide drinkers on
>free hunts. Ha Ha
>
>I have taken a Stone and
>Dall there is really nothing
>at Full Curl for me
>to win or help me
>obtain my dream of taking
>all four sheep under the
>current structure. But it is
>still exciting to watch people
>win a hunt of a
>lifetime.
>
>I dont think it only benifits
>the rich. I know a
>lot of average people that
>have drawn tags at this
>event.
>
>Bradon Barney
>Paula Richmond
>Chris Lockhead
>Shawn Robb
>
>to name a few.
>
>Troy Justensen


i appreciate the reply troy. but i am speaking on behalf of alot of currant and former sfw members that i know personally. and not one of them have ever been asked for their input on anything to do with sfw.and it is not hard to see there is alot of fed up hunters out there. not just with sfw but also the udwr and the wildlife board.and just on this website alone you can see possible changes the state is proposing well ahead of time. i get the balancing act you can not please everybody.but there should be alot more effort on sfw's behalf to get a general feel on what the public land hunters want. and account for that when your board members come to a final decision.it is not a secret that sfw is being painted with a pretty dirty brush right now . you guys are one of the most influential organizations in the state so the expectations are of course going to be higher.bottom line i think alot of people are concerned about there children's future hunting oppurtunity's and the future of our sport and are also concerned about where their money is going
 
Troy you say there is room to increase opportunity and quality on the elk hunts but it's going to take some major changes? What changes are you refering to?
 
Russ

This is the Gospel according to Troy I am not speaking for SFW.

The only feasable way I see to increase quality & opportunity is to move the majority of the rifle tags out of the rut!!

You cant hunt a animal when he is most vunrable with your most efficent weapon and not exspect quality to suffer. We also need to shorten the season in prime time!
It needs to be more of a hunt instead of a selection process!

You will harvest the top end everytime. Very few big bulls will slip through the cracks. Hunters are pretty dang good. More time than ever is spent scouting and our equipment has come along ways. Face it we a pretty good at putting stuff on the ground!

I think there is room to increase permits in both Archery & Muzzlelaoder.

We need to bring back the Elk Management tag's with some modifications.

Who is this going to piss off? The guys with Max Points.

As I mentioned earlier the time frame that alot of this takes place in is a real challlange. We fully acknowledge we need to do better at communicating with our memebership.

We are in the process of trying to put together and data base that includes every members email address. This will aloow us to forward info and drasticly improve our ability to collect opinions.

Besides our quarterly Magazine we will start sending out information via email to keep our members up to speed on what is being discussed.

But on the other hand as a member you have the right and ability to contact your chapter leaders and ask to be more involved. We need and welcome more people to step up and serve on our committee's.


Troy Justensen
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-11 AT 11:44AM (MST)[p]Gospel according to Troy--I love it, LOL! I also think that when you hunt elk in the rut that it is about what you stated and if you guys have many hunts during the rut with rifles the numbers and quality have to suffer. Same goes for mulies in the rut. Even the modern muzzleloaders are now to the point where you can take an animal at 200+ yards, unlike the much closer distances needed when hunting with a bow. I think after hunting Wyoming since 1992 that I would have to say that they really have pretty good season structures to keep both the quantity and quality where it should be. It seems that in the few months I've been on this site that there are an awful lot of guys that are talking about 400" elk and 200" mulies. That's great, but it seems an awful lot of people have lost the real reason to be out. Squeezing the trigger on a nice animal on a regular basis is nice, but I can truthfully say that I'm having as much fun the last five years just tagging along and helping friends do their thing. I can call, glass, take video and photos and have one hell of a time doing it! It's also a lot cheaper not having to pay for all those PPs and licenses, LOL! Maybe a lot of people that will only be happy if they can get one of those monsters need to see the light. A good example is when a really good animal is posted on this site. Before all is said and done, rather than people congratulating the guy for his trophy, there seems to almost always be a pissing contest about how it was scored, it couldn't score that much, etc., and that's really a shame!!! At this stage in my life (I'm 63), I'm just happy to get out there and see all that Mother Nature has to offer. If the opportunity presents itself and I have a tag for a nice animal that presents himself, I'll squeeze the trigger. Otherwise, my trophies will be all the photos of the anmals and scenery that will bring back memories well after I have to hang up my hunting boots for good!
 
I like your thoughts Troy, you could make it a win win situation. Sure tags are going to sell for less but your still gettng 5% which equals more tags. Maybe it would be a wash? The inch crowd ie Doyle and the boys wont be happy. LOL
 
I can attest to the fact that there are some GREAT people behind SFW. I'm very confident that they all really want to see Utah have the best hunting possible. From the founder, Don Peay, to all the guys who work banquets, go to board meetings, etc. We all want pretty much the samething....great hunting and as much of it as possible.
It's just the path to getting there that differs from person to person. We all have our own opinions, and while mine is the only one that is right, I understand that it can't always go the way I want it to. (LOL....just kidding)

Now, I know that my words probably aren't going to change any opinions of SFW. Some of you guys just flatout don't like what SFW does and most likely, know matter what they do, some will find something to question them about. If they posted here on the site where every single penny they spent last year went, they would still have to deal with people questioning this or that. Some would argue that Don gets paid too much, others would argue that they shouldn't have spent so much on airfare, or gas, or motel, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, .......... on and on and on.

How much time should Don, Troy, Byron, and the others spend trying to satisfy everyone in Utah when satisfying everyone is impossible? If they waste all their time trying to convince YOU that they spent conservation tag money right, then others are going to be upset when Don isn't doing his job to keep wolves out of Utah. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER will they make every sportsman happy. NEVER!!!!

If they hired a person to just sit on MM and answer questions, the same people asking the questions would question why they hired someone to answer a bunch of questions on MM. It's the way it is.

I'm glad Troy gets on here and shares his opinion. It does make me feel better. I typically agree with Troy on things (except AI auction tags). Don doesn't get on here much anymore because conversations/debates often turn into untrue accusations and mud slinging. I think he just grows tired of it. He has tried to communicate. Hopefully he will get on and keep us up-to-date on issues.

So, that is my .02 cents, and don't think I said all that just because I was promised to draw that Henry Mtns. tag at the expo next year either. LOL

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
+1 Brian, but ya know when you do draw that Henry's tag next year someone's going to dig this post up and it's all downhill from there.
 
Tworay---That's funny because that was the first thing that came to mind when I read the last line Founder made in his post, LOL!
 
I wouldn't care what people say!!! I'd be hunting the Henry's baby!!!!!!

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
If that area is as good as I keep reading about here on this site, I wouldn't blame you one bit, LOL!
 
"It is not required that we earmark it for any one particular field. To say that none of this money is going back on the ground or for Utah's wildlife is simple not true."


Troy the above quote is not what was sold and passed through the RAC / Wildlife Board process. Sportsmen were told that "A Substantial Amount" would go back in to habitat and wildlife.

It has been asked before and will continue to be asked untill
the question is answered.

If there is nothing to hide concerning these funds post it up here for the whole world to see. If Miles Moretti and the MDF is standing in the way of this then lets hold them responsible as well.

I can't imagine any chest thumping self promoting org. not to use the good these funds have done to further promote the cause.

All anybody is asking is for a accounting of these funds. Nothing more.





















2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
>
>
> "It is not required
>that we earmark it for
>any one particular field. To
>say that none of this
>money is going back on
>the ground or for Utah's
>wildlife is simple not true."
>
>
>
> Troy the above
>quote is not what was
>sold and passed through the
>RAC / Wildlife Board process.
>Sportsmen were told that "A
>Substantial Amount" would go back
>in to habitat and wildlife.
>
>
> It has been asked
>before and will continue to
>be asked untill
>the question is answered.
>
> If there is
>nothing to hide concerning these
>funds post it up here
>for the whole world to
>see. If Miles Moretti and
>the MDF is standing in
>the way of this then
>lets hold them responsible as
>well.
>
> I can't imagine any
>chest thumping self promoting org.
>not to use the good
>these funds have done to
>further promote the cause.
>
> All anybody is asking
>is for a accounting of
>these funds. Nothing more.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>2010 TOTALS
>P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
>UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS
>GONE


+1 well said also actions speak louder than words untill sfw starts making it right with the public land hunter. my opinion of them will not change. i know you can not please evrybody but the worst thing you can do is piss off the biggest majority of hunters(public land hunters)to please the few hunters with deep pocket books.i would love to see this substatial amount of net proceeds
 
Brian

I had posted an accounting of the Funds that SFW had spent from 2008 to present day that were Non- Conservation Permit Money's, meaning money raised from the Expo and banquets etc. Unfortunatley the post was deleted. When I get more time I will repost that accounting.

Or if you now someone that is attending any of the SFW banquets this weekend it will be available there.


Troy Justensen
 

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