SFW
- Thread starter nfh
- Start date
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
I should be there.
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
SFW is not bad news. You are painting all SFW states with a broad brush.
You can thank SFW for stopping the proposed license fee increases!
You can thank SFW for stopping the proposed license fee increases!
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-13 AT 01:49PM (MST)[p]>SFW is not bad news.
>You are painting all SFW
>states with a broad brush.
>
>
>You can thank SFW for stopping
>the proposed license fee increases!
***Seems as if I've told you before that's what happens when your organization is called SFW! Oh, and that's a great thing to take credit for when YOUR G&F Department will go down the tubes in the next two years and will be lucky to have sufficient funds to gas the trucks up that the Game Wardens use in their jobs. Then it will probably be SFW to the rescue with a bailout suggestion to the Legislature to pimp several hundred tags like their Utah SFW/MDF counterparts do! Naw, that would never happen in Wyoming, just like they promised people it would never happen in AZ!!! Bob, you're probably better off staying off the Forums, as it seems every time you post you stick your foot in your mouth.
>You are painting all SFW
>states with a broad brush.
>
>
>You can thank SFW for stopping
>the proposed license fee increases!
***Seems as if I've told you before that's what happens when your organization is called SFW! Oh, and that's a great thing to take credit for when YOUR G&F Department will go down the tubes in the next two years and will be lucky to have sufficient funds to gas the trucks up that the Game Wardens use in their jobs. Then it will probably be SFW to the rescue with a bailout suggestion to the Legislature to pimp several hundred tags like their Utah SFW/MDF counterparts do! Naw, that would never happen in Wyoming, just like they promised people it would never happen in AZ!!! Bob, you're probably better off staying off the Forums, as it seems every time you post you stick your foot in your mouth.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,448
$FW always the 'After the Fact' take credit for...Blah--Blah--Blah....
No doubt there will be 500 + true sportsman at the Cody banquet....yadda--yadda--yadda...
Robb
No doubt there will be 500 + true sportsman at the Cody banquet....yadda--yadda--yadda...
Robb
>SFW is not bad news.
>You are painting all SFW
>states with a broad brush.
>
>
>You can thank SFW for stopping
>the proposed license fee increases!
>
Aren't they talking about curtailing fish stocking programs, eliminating the Expo and a bunch of other programs. When they're another $3 - $4 mill in the hole next year and the year after, should we keep thanking you when there's nothing left but a handful of wardens...
>You are painting all SFW
>states with a broad brush.
>
>
>You can thank SFW for stopping
>the proposed license fee increases!
>
Aren't they talking about curtailing fish stocking programs, eliminating the Expo and a bunch of other programs. When they're another $3 - $4 mill in the hole next year and the year after, should we keep thanking you when there's nothing left but a handful of wardens...
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
You guys can say what you want about SFW, it changes nothing in what WY SFW has been able to accomplish.
I will keep delivering for WY SFW members regardless of what you type on an internet forum.
I am proud of what WY SFW has accomplished, even with all of your criticism.
I hope more will come to our state event in Cody, WY and see what we are really about!
I will keep delivering for WY SFW members regardless of what you type on an internet forum.
I am proud of what WY SFW has accomplished, even with all of your criticism.
I hope more will come to our state event in Cody, WY and see what we are really about!
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
Funny how it appears as though Pres. Obama used the same playbook that our G&F did. Does it seem to you as though they are trying to make this as painful as possible? Funny how they said they needed $8-10 million more; yet, they have been able to cut almost $8 million.
2000-2001 G&F had 200 full time employees and a budget of $35 million/year. Today they have over 400 FTE and their budget has grown to almost $80 million/year.
Here is just how broke they are:
counting mice
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21312
Vacinating prarie dogs
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21311
Counting bats (this might make a good blog in light of their bat condo construction program).
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21309
Big paying job in the finance dept.
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21260
I just think their priorities are not the same as most sportsmen I know.
2000-2001 G&F had 200 full time employees and a budget of $35 million/year. Today they have over 400 FTE and their budget has grown to almost $80 million/year.
Here is just how broke they are:
counting mice
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21312
Vacinating prarie dogs
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21311
Counting bats (this might make a good blog in light of their bat condo construction program).
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21309
Big paying job in the finance dept.
https://statejobs.state.wy.us/JobSearchDetail.aspx?ID=21260
I just think their priorities are not the same as most sportsmen I know.
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-13 AT 07:41AM (MST)[p]That's a real smoking gun relating the G&F Department to Obama, LOL! In case you didn't look at those links closely that you posted, the first three jobs are temporary summer jobs lasting 4 months and are for college kids working on a BS in wildlife. They might not seem important to you or SFW, but that's just a few people's opinion. The first is studying an endangered species and the second is a study on how to control plague in prairie dogs. I'll reserve comment on the bat study that's the third link, as there wasn't enough information listed to come to any type of conclusion. With your background and supposed expertise in wildlife, who would you purpose do those types of studies or are you saying that only big game should be monitored by the G&F? Also, is it not possible that those are being funded by Federal monies or grants? The last link you provided is from The Division of Human Resources listing jobs covering the entire state of Wyoming in all categories and doesn't even have anything to do with the G&F! If you have a list of $8 million in cuts that they've made in response to this budget situation, please post it because I'm calling BS and I don't mean a degree! The last I read on the G&F website of initial things they are proposing to cut was but a fraction of that. Incidentally, their statement was that they needed additional income to continue doing what they are doing now, not that they couldn't cut a bunch of things out that will affect a lot of people like those who enjoy fishing. Nope, lets just cut back to 200 employees like the old days and then we can add all those who lose their jobs to the welfare line and pay them for doing nothing!
S
strang
Guest
I am not a member of SFW or any other sportsmans group. But it does seem to me that a sportsmans group should reflect the opinions of its members. That being said maybe joining SFW and bringing many sportsman together to persue the same goals might not be a bad thing. Right now in WY there exists a need for a common voice for sportsman. Maybe bringing all the splinter groups under one umbrella could be a positive thing. And now is the perfect opportunity for TOP GUN to jump in and say what an idiot I am. READY HERE"S TOP GUN! LMFAO
Don't have a heart attack when I tell you I'm in your corner 100% on everyone getting together for the common good. If it happens to be SFW, I have no problem or any other group that would represent the majority. The problem is when a group is in the minority and tries to tell the Legislature or G&F that they represent the majority with their ideas and try to get their agenda pushed through contrary to the good of the whole.
S
strang
Guest
Trouble is no one currently represents the majority in WY. So maybe since they are the only game in town a memebership drive is in order. Just sayin
S
strang
Guest
Anyone know what the strongest hunting lobby group is in wyoming?
WYOGA try joining that one as an independent sportsman
WYOGA try joining that one as an independent sportsman
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
TOPGUN,
I have never said I represent anyone other than members of WY SFW. Have you ever attended any of our hearings?
Every time I have testified before either the G&F Commission or our Legislature, I have testified in behalf of WY SFW members and only our members. In fact, whenever legislators have contacted me with regards to a particular issue, I have always told them our position and that is it. I remind them every time that I only speak for my members. Most of the legislators do know that I have an actual group as they have spoken with them or know them firsthand. That is why/how WY SFW is so successful.
WY SFW has not brought forward any legislation that has been contrary to the good of the whole. I have made this point everytime individuals have smeared SFW in general or specifically WY SFW.
You have tryed before to join WY SFW and what did I tell you? I would still say the same thing today as you are not someone that I believe should be a member of WY SFW as you continually run it down and accuse it of being a bad organization. WY SFW truly does empower sportsmen in Wyoming. There is no bill that has been passed solely to benefit WY SFW members; yet, it is our members which have paid to ensure that Sportsmen have a Voice in our state. The Wyoming Wildlife & Natural Resource Trust is largely here today because of the efforts of WY SFW. I still consider it to have been the best thing we have accomplished for our state. It is something that I hope remains long after I have moved on!
WY SFW is working hard to ensure that our hunting, fishing and trapping heritage is protected and can be preserved for future generataions. Do you really think we are trying to hurt that heritage? We will fight to ensure that cuts are made where they need to be made and that priorities are clearly understood by our G&F and sportsmens issues are addressed.
I have never said I represent anyone other than members of WY SFW. Have you ever attended any of our hearings?
Every time I have testified before either the G&F Commission or our Legislature, I have testified in behalf of WY SFW members and only our members. In fact, whenever legislators have contacted me with regards to a particular issue, I have always told them our position and that is it. I remind them every time that I only speak for my members. Most of the legislators do know that I have an actual group as they have spoken with them or know them firsthand. That is why/how WY SFW is so successful.
WY SFW has not brought forward any legislation that has been contrary to the good of the whole. I have made this point everytime individuals have smeared SFW in general or specifically WY SFW.
You have tryed before to join WY SFW and what did I tell you? I would still say the same thing today as you are not someone that I believe should be a member of WY SFW as you continually run it down and accuse it of being a bad organization. WY SFW truly does empower sportsmen in Wyoming. There is no bill that has been passed solely to benefit WY SFW members; yet, it is our members which have paid to ensure that Sportsmen have a Voice in our state. The Wyoming Wildlife & Natural Resource Trust is largely here today because of the efforts of WY SFW. I still consider it to have been the best thing we have accomplished for our state. It is something that I hope remains long after I have moved on!
WY SFW is working hard to ensure that our hunting, fishing and trapping heritage is protected and can be preserved for future generataions. Do you really think we are trying to hurt that heritage? We will fight to ensure that cuts are made where they need to be made and that priorities are clearly understood by our G&F and sportsmens issues are addressed.
TOPGUN,
I have never said I represent
anyone other than members of
WY SFW. Have you
ever attended any of our
hearings?
***Nowhere have I ever said you did, but it appears you're a little touchy on that one since my post above didn't mention any names. Quick question for you though---How many members do you have compared to how many resident hunting/fishing licenses were sold in Wyoming last year? In your position, those numbers should be readily available. To answer your question; nope, it's a 3000 mile round trip to Cheyenne from here, so I write and email Legislators on my thoughts about things of interest that they are looking at as they develop.
Every time I have testified before
either the G&F Commission or
our Legislature, I have testified
in behalf of WY SFW
members and only our members.
In fact, whenever legislators
have contacted me with regards
to a particular issue, I
have always told them our
position and that is it.
***I hope that would be the case! After the misrepresentations that were made by a group in another state about the wolf delisting Bill for organizations other than themselves that weren't true, I hope a lesson was learned!
I remind them every
time that I only speak
for my members. Most
of the legislators do know
that I have an actual
group as they have spoken
with them or know them
firsthand. That is why/how
WY SFW is so successful.
***That's exactly the way it should be.
WY SFW has not brought forward
any legislation that has been
contrary to the good of
the whole. I have
made this point everytime individuals
have smeared SFW in general
or specifically WY SFW.
***That may well be the case, but I don't believe the "good of the whole" was being looked at on the outfitter and transferrable landowner tag situations that I believe your group backed, even if it didn't put forward any Bills.
You have tryed before to join
WY SFW and what did
I tell you? I
would still say the same
thing today as you are
not someone that I believe
should be a member of
WY SFW as you continually
run it down and accuse
it of being a bad
organization. WY SFW truly
does empower sportsmen in Wyoming.
***I've never tried to join! I told you if your organization would make a blanket statement that they would never attempt a tag grab like they have in Utah and tried last year in AZ that I would join in a heartbeat. I never received anything but rhetoric similar to this post of yours from you several times on that subject! It also appears you may not have been reading many of my posts in the last year or so because I've made numerous ones that stated after looking into the organization that a lot of good things are being done on the ground by the blue collar workers. It's not them I have the problem with, but rather the higher ups who are making a living off wildlife by selling them to the highest bidder or taking tags from the average Joe pools to foster what many feel is nothing but money going unaccounted for and not benefitting anything but pockets of certain individuals. It does look like at the present time the Wyoming group hasn't stooped to the money making tactics used in Utah, but as I mentioned to start with that just your similar group name has negative connotations that will never be overcome.
There is no bill
that has been passed solely
to benefit WY SFW members;
yet, it is our members
which have paid to ensure
that Sportsmen have a Voice
in our state. The
Wyoming Wildlife & Natural Resource
Trust is largely here today
because of the efforts of
WY SFW. I still
consider it to have been
the best thing we have
accomplished for our state.
It is something that I
hope remains long after I
have moved on!
***That was more than beneficial and anything your group had to do with it is greatly appreciated!
WY SFW is working hard to
ensure that our hunting, fishing
and trapping heritage is protected
and can be preserved for
future generataions. Do you
really think we are trying
to hurt that heritage?
We will fight to ensure
that cuts are made where
they need to be made
and that priorities are clearly
understood by our G&F and
sportsmens issues are addressed.
***I certainly do feel that your successful fight to stop ANY type of G&F fee increases in this Legislative session were not well thought out and will have great negative connotations in the future before any possible good can ever come! Just because SFW doesn't think that a lot of things being done by the G&F are necessary doesn't mean that's true of the majority of citizens. It will be very interesting to see what cuts G&F has to make before any additional money comes their way and how your group will react when it has ramifications on things a lot of your members participate in!
I have never said I represent
anyone other than members of
WY SFW. Have you
ever attended any of our
hearings?
***Nowhere have I ever said you did, but it appears you're a little touchy on that one since my post above didn't mention any names. Quick question for you though---How many members do you have compared to how many resident hunting/fishing licenses were sold in Wyoming last year? In your position, those numbers should be readily available. To answer your question; nope, it's a 3000 mile round trip to Cheyenne from here, so I write and email Legislators on my thoughts about things of interest that they are looking at as they develop.
Every time I have testified before
either the G&F Commission or
our Legislature, I have testified
in behalf of WY SFW
members and only our members.
In fact, whenever legislators
have contacted me with regards
to a particular issue, I
have always told them our
position and that is it.
***I hope that would be the case! After the misrepresentations that were made by a group in another state about the wolf delisting Bill for organizations other than themselves that weren't true, I hope a lesson was learned!
I remind them every
time that I only speak
for my members. Most
of the legislators do know
that I have an actual
group as they have spoken
with them or know them
firsthand. That is why/how
WY SFW is so successful.
***That's exactly the way it should be.
WY SFW has not brought forward
any legislation that has been
contrary to the good of
the whole. I have
made this point everytime individuals
have smeared SFW in general
or specifically WY SFW.
***That may well be the case, but I don't believe the "good of the whole" was being looked at on the outfitter and transferrable landowner tag situations that I believe your group backed, even if it didn't put forward any Bills.
You have tryed before to join
WY SFW and what did
I tell you? I
would still say the same
thing today as you are
not someone that I believe
should be a member of
WY SFW as you continually
run it down and accuse
it of being a bad
organization. WY SFW truly
does empower sportsmen in Wyoming.
***I've never tried to join! I told you if your organization would make a blanket statement that they would never attempt a tag grab like they have in Utah and tried last year in AZ that I would join in a heartbeat. I never received anything but rhetoric similar to this post of yours from you several times on that subject! It also appears you may not have been reading many of my posts in the last year or so because I've made numerous ones that stated after looking into the organization that a lot of good things are being done on the ground by the blue collar workers. It's not them I have the problem with, but rather the higher ups who are making a living off wildlife by selling them to the highest bidder or taking tags from the average Joe pools to foster what many feel is nothing but money going unaccounted for and not benefitting anything but pockets of certain individuals. It does look like at the present time the Wyoming group hasn't stooped to the money making tactics used in Utah, but as I mentioned to start with that just your similar group name has negative connotations that will never be overcome.
There is no bill
that has been passed solely
to benefit WY SFW members;
yet, it is our members
which have paid to ensure
that Sportsmen have a Voice
in our state. The
Wyoming Wildlife & Natural Resource
Trust is largely here today
because of the efforts of
WY SFW. I still
consider it to have been
the best thing we have
accomplished for our state.
It is something that I
hope remains long after I
have moved on!
***That was more than beneficial and anything your group had to do with it is greatly appreciated!
WY SFW is working hard to
ensure that our hunting, fishing
and trapping heritage is protected
and can be preserved for
future generataions. Do you
really think we are trying
to hurt that heritage?
We will fight to ensure
that cuts are made where
they need to be made
and that priorities are clearly
understood by our G&F and
sportsmens issues are addressed.
***I certainly do feel that your successful fight to stop ANY type of G&F fee increases in this Legislative session were not well thought out and will have great negative connotations in the future before any possible good can ever come! Just because SFW doesn't think that a lot of things being done by the G&F are necessary doesn't mean that's true of the majority of citizens. It will be very interesting to see what cuts G&F has to make before any additional money comes their way and how your group will react when it has ramifications on things a lot of your members participate in!
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
TOPGUN,
***I certainly do feel that your successful fight to stop ANY type of G&F fee increases in this Legislative session were not well thought out and will have great negative connotations in the future before any possible good can ever come! Just because SFW doesn't think that a lot of things being done by the G&F are necessary doesn't mean that's true of the majority of citizens. It will be very interesting to see what cuts G&F has to make before any additional money comes their way and how your group will react when it has ramifications on things a lot of your members participate in!
Have you even tried to understand 'WHY' WY SFW took a stance against the proposed license fee increases being pushed by our G&F Department? I know that you & I have not discussed it; yet, it appears as though you have already formulate an opinion without even hearing from WY SFW. As you stated above, you live a long ways from Wyoming and can not attend any of the meetings. WY SFW has attended all of the G&F Commission meetings as well as all of the Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife & Cultural Resources (TRW) Interim Committee meetings. Our testimony never changed. It has been the same from the beginning of this issue and remains the same today. There should have been NO surprises to anyone involved in this process as to our position nor a lack of understanding for those which have been in attendance to these meetings.
In your statement you make some assumptions that I believe are biased against WY SFW, just because we are SFW. What you fail to understand is that our members were either very effective as an organization in getting our message heard by our legislators or that the message we delivered was supported overwhelmingly by a significant portion of the public. 3 out of 4 bills which sought to increase license fees were overwhelmingly defeated in this session will in committee meeting. Most of the votes were 8 to 1 in their defeat. The one & only bill which made it to the floor of the House for the entire body to discuss was defeated by a 52 to 8 vote. You are entitled to your opinion and you appear more than willing to share your opinion on this site a lot. You are very knowledgeable about Wyoming and its hunting opportunities and you seem very willing to share your knowledge with others on this site. Having said all of that, you continue to speak as though you know all about WY SFW when in fact you do not.
You might not have liked the comparison that I made between Pres. Obama and the WY G&F Department; however, you can not tell me that you do not see a similar pattern. Others have reported that the Obama administration and their underlings have been alleged to want and make the proposed cuts as painful as possible. The links I posted were sent to me via another legislator and the comments were theirs not mine. Several of our Wyoming legislators are suspecting that the G&F will try and make their cuts as painful as possible. WY SFW members will be attending G&F meetings to ensure that cuts are made where they need to be and where it makes the most sense. Our legislators are also watching and listening to the public, the majority of which also opposed these increases.
I invite you to watch how WY SFW reacts when programs are cut when other options are available. More importantly, watch how our legislators respond and ask what is motivating that response.
***I certainly do feel that your successful fight to stop ANY type of G&F fee increases in this Legislative session were not well thought out and will have great negative connotations in the future before any possible good can ever come! Just because SFW doesn't think that a lot of things being done by the G&F are necessary doesn't mean that's true of the majority of citizens. It will be very interesting to see what cuts G&F has to make before any additional money comes their way and how your group will react when it has ramifications on things a lot of your members participate in!
Have you even tried to understand 'WHY' WY SFW took a stance against the proposed license fee increases being pushed by our G&F Department? I know that you & I have not discussed it; yet, it appears as though you have already formulate an opinion without even hearing from WY SFW. As you stated above, you live a long ways from Wyoming and can not attend any of the meetings. WY SFW has attended all of the G&F Commission meetings as well as all of the Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife & Cultural Resources (TRW) Interim Committee meetings. Our testimony never changed. It has been the same from the beginning of this issue and remains the same today. There should have been NO surprises to anyone involved in this process as to our position nor a lack of understanding for those which have been in attendance to these meetings.
In your statement you make some assumptions that I believe are biased against WY SFW, just because we are SFW. What you fail to understand is that our members were either very effective as an organization in getting our message heard by our legislators or that the message we delivered was supported overwhelmingly by a significant portion of the public. 3 out of 4 bills which sought to increase license fees were overwhelmingly defeated in this session will in committee meeting. Most of the votes were 8 to 1 in their defeat. The one & only bill which made it to the floor of the House for the entire body to discuss was defeated by a 52 to 8 vote. You are entitled to your opinion and you appear more than willing to share your opinion on this site a lot. You are very knowledgeable about Wyoming and its hunting opportunities and you seem very willing to share your knowledge with others on this site. Having said all of that, you continue to speak as though you know all about WY SFW when in fact you do not.
You might not have liked the comparison that I made between Pres. Obama and the WY G&F Department; however, you can not tell me that you do not see a similar pattern. Others have reported that the Obama administration and their underlings have been alleged to want and make the proposed cuts as painful as possible. The links I posted were sent to me via another legislator and the comments were theirs not mine. Several of our Wyoming legislators are suspecting that the G&F will try and make their cuts as painful as possible. WY SFW members will be attending G&F meetings to ensure that cuts are made where they need to be and where it makes the most sense. Our legislators are also watching and listening to the public, the majority of which also opposed these increases.
I invite you to watch how WY SFW reacts when programs are cut when other options are available. More importantly, watch how our legislators respond and ask what is motivating that response.
S
strang
Guest
RE SFW's lobby on license fee increases. I did not mind a minimal license fee increase. However living in WY it is my opinion that most residents were adamatly opposed to any money to Game and Fish including many members of the legislature. They ended up turning down just about every bill as a result of resident public outcry. BTW the WYOGA bill was to raise only non resident fees and flip the special lic percentage. So as sportsman we better get on board with some kind of unifying group be it SFW or whatever. United we stand divided we get taxed.
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,397
When asked by a legislator this past session how many Wyoming members he represented, Mr Bob said "I have 8000 contacts". Too bad the legislator didn't make him really answer the question.
SFW is having a rough time here in Natrona County for several reasons and I have tried to tell Bob why and he just cuts me off. That's the first problem, Bob talks too much and won't listen.
Secondly, the group is not cohesive enough for the common sportsman. If they are faced with taking sides on a contraversial issue, rather than try and solve the problem, they take sides. They bring too many radical ideas to the table. When Bob says he listens to his members, my question is 'which one is he talking about'?
And third, SFW Wyo IS Bob. I have never seen or heard from a board of directors or any other statewide group that leads them. Do their officers not participate at a state level? What is their role?
I commend Bob for helping sportsman stop a bad land exchange in Natrona County, but in the end it was local sportsman who broke the deal with no SFW members present. There is a reason that the local group involved didn't rush to sign up and join SFW.
Lastly, I'll say that as a person, I like Bob. I have told him I consider him a friend, but unfortunately I had to use this forum to tell him why I think his group has problems. Also, Bob, if I leave a message for you, please return the call even if it's bad news!
SFW is having a rough time here in Natrona County for several reasons and I have tried to tell Bob why and he just cuts me off. That's the first problem, Bob talks too much and won't listen.
Secondly, the group is not cohesive enough for the common sportsman. If they are faced with taking sides on a contraversial issue, rather than try and solve the problem, they take sides. They bring too many radical ideas to the table. When Bob says he listens to his members, my question is 'which one is he talking about'?
And third, SFW Wyo IS Bob. I have never seen or heard from a board of directors or any other statewide group that leads them. Do their officers not participate at a state level? What is their role?
I commend Bob for helping sportsman stop a bad land exchange in Natrona County, but in the end it was local sportsman who broke the deal with no SFW members present. There is a reason that the local group involved didn't rush to sign up and join SFW.
Lastly, I'll say that as a person, I like Bob. I have told him I consider him a friend, but unfortunately I had to use this forum to tell him why I think his group has problems. Also, Bob, if I leave a message for you, please return the call even if it's bad news!
BuzzH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,202
Some great points being made on this thread regarding WYSFW.
I honestly believe that WYSFW is/has crossed the line on many issues, and crossed over to the wrong side of most.
Classic example is their latest stance to block all the license fee increase bills. I dont have a problem with them lobbying to stop the fee increases, but when WYSFW crosses the line is by demanding what, when, where, and how the WYG&F deals with less funding.
Those decisions should NEVER be made by one interest group...ever. There is a G&F commission, a Director, and an executive staff employed by the WYG&F to make those decisions.
Bob has already showed his arse, IMO, trying to discredit the programs/position policies within the WYG&F that he doesnt like. In other words, trying to take over as Director of the WYG&F. If that means buying lunch for legislatures, taking liberties with the truth, and anything else they need to do. Thats been the M.O. for SFW across the West. Its always been about control more than benefitting wildlife or the average sportsmen...always.
SFW has a history of trying to take over all decision making in regard to G&F agencies...look to Idaho, Montana, Alaska, Utah, and even Wyoming as classic examples of how they've tried it. They attempt hostile take-overs of the commission, RAC's, Director in one case, Legislature, etc. Thats just business as usual in the SFW playbook.
Theres a reason why so few sportsmen belong to WYSFW and why WYSFW is met with heavy opposition to many of their ideas.
I agree with jm77 that Bob is not a bad guy. I do question how often even the dues paying members of SFW actually agree with some of the decisions/stances that are taken with the group though. Maybe the BOD agrees, but I'd bet the membership as a whole has major issues with some of the stances.
I'm also a bit annoyed that WYSFW takes a vast amount of credit for things I know for a fact happened, or would have happened, without them or their support.
I honestly believe that WYSFW is/has crossed the line on many issues, and crossed over to the wrong side of most.
Classic example is their latest stance to block all the license fee increase bills. I dont have a problem with them lobbying to stop the fee increases, but when WYSFW crosses the line is by demanding what, when, where, and how the WYG&F deals with less funding.
Those decisions should NEVER be made by one interest group...ever. There is a G&F commission, a Director, and an executive staff employed by the WYG&F to make those decisions.
Bob has already showed his arse, IMO, trying to discredit the programs/position policies within the WYG&F that he doesnt like. In other words, trying to take over as Director of the WYG&F. If that means buying lunch for legislatures, taking liberties with the truth, and anything else they need to do. Thats been the M.O. for SFW across the West. Its always been about control more than benefitting wildlife or the average sportsmen...always.
SFW has a history of trying to take over all decision making in regard to G&F agencies...look to Idaho, Montana, Alaska, Utah, and even Wyoming as classic examples of how they've tried it. They attempt hostile take-overs of the commission, RAC's, Director in one case, Legislature, etc. Thats just business as usual in the SFW playbook.
Theres a reason why so few sportsmen belong to WYSFW and why WYSFW is met with heavy opposition to many of their ideas.
I agree with jm77 that Bob is not a bad guy. I do question how often even the dues paying members of SFW actually agree with some of the decisions/stances that are taken with the group though. Maybe the BOD agrees, but I'd bet the membership as a whole has major issues with some of the stances.
I'm also a bit annoyed that WYSFW takes a vast amount of credit for things I know for a fact happened, or would have happened, without them or their support.
LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-13 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]BuzzH---I'm glad you made your post, as it saves me a lot of time in responding to Bob with various comments that would have been very similar to those you just made. It was especially sickening to read the last two paragraphs of Bob's last post, which appear to be veiled threats against the G&F if he and the WYSFW don't get what they want! All I have asked is a couple of simple questions of him over the last year or two and I continue to get a smokescreen and no answers. All I asked in my previous post is how many members does WYSFW consist of compared to resident hunting/fishing licenses sold and what did I get back? I got more mumbo jumbo and absolutely nothing remotely answering the question along with more chastising for my being against the organization! Is the answer 80, 800, 8000 or some other number that you'll pull out of thin air like it seems you did to that question the Legislator asked of you? It looks like Utah is really starting to question the ring leader of SFW and all the other groups mentioned in this article that just came out in the SLC newspaper in his home state today:
By Tom Wharton
The Salt Lake Tribune
When Don Peay founded Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife in 1993, few could have dreamed that it would blossom into a powerful multi-million operation with a presence in seven western states and in national politics.
The group formed as Utah mule deer populations were crashing. Peay, an avid hunter, decided to do something about it.
There is little doubt that Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife has done much good. It has spent money to purchase or improve wildlife habitat and raised $7.2 million for conservation over the past 10 years. It recently wrote a check for more than $1 million to the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources.
Such expenditures bring the organization sway with state wildlife managers. Some think the relationship might be too cozy. Money and political clout often give the impression that SFW and not the DWR is in charge of wildlife in Utah.
Consider a 2010 Utah Wildlife Board meeting when SFW president Byron Bateman presented then-DWR director Jim Karpowitz with a check for $391,000 moments before the Wildlife Board passed a controversial proposal largely crafted and promoted by SFW to reduce the number of deer-hunting permits by at least 13,000.
I fear that the organization has become increasingly more about making money for its officers, commercializing Utah?s wildlife, and aligning itself with groups such as off-highway vehicle organizations and right-wing politicians intent on Utah taking over federal public lands. How these things help wildlife or the average hunter escapes me.
Some of SFW?s fundraising efforts, especially those taking advantage of hunters? mythical fears that the main reason for the decline in big game herds, especially mule deer, is predation. Damn the biology or the fact that the reasons deer herds are down are far more complex than predation. Advocating killing wolves, coyotes, cougars and bears to save deer, elk and other big game is a great way to raise funds and gain members. No matter that wiping out predators is ecologically questionable and, except in a few specific units, not particularly effective.
The organization successfully lobbied the Utah Legislature to appropriate general tax dollars as well as raise hunting license fees to increase bounties on coyotes, encouraging the wanton killing of coyotes everywhere. I can't find a single reputable biologist who thinks this action will help deer herds. But the simplistic solution sounds good to uninformed legislators and hunters and helps raise money.
The Utah Legislature also gave an offshoot SFW organization called Big Game Forever a second $300,000 contract to lobby Washington politicians to keep wolves out of Utah. Though a few stray wolves may have wandered into northern Utah, there is no evidence wolves are going to ever be a major problem in the state. There has been no detailed report as to how Big Game Forever spent the first $300,000. The group is not registered to lobby in Washington, D.C.
SFW and its officers also donate money freely to dozens of politicians. One of the recipients was State Sen. Ralph Okerlund, R-Monroe, who received $6,500 in campaign contributions from Peay and Ryan Benson, co-founder of Big Game Forever. Okerlund, the Senate Majority Leader, recommended spending $300,000 the past two years on Big Game Forever?s anti-wolf lobbying campaign.
Figuring out just how much Peay and other officers make in salary or consulting fees is challenging. Money is moved back and forth from non-profits to private corporations among groups such as Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Sportsmen for Habitat, Big Game Forever, Arctic Red River Outfitters, Peay Consulting, World Trophy Outfitters, the Full Curl Society, the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, seven state chapters of SFW and the Mule Deer Foundation ? which is part of a major wildlife convention where the state gives conservation organizations wildlife tags to auction. The groups get to keep 10 percent of the proceeds for administrative costs. In the case of application fees raised at the 2012 Western Hunting and Conservation Expo, hunters pay in hopes of drawing a difficult-to-get hunting tag, SFW and the Mule Deer Foundation reported $613,572 in expenses of holding the drawing, with the remaining $443,417 actually going to conservation projects.
Has any of this helped big game in Utah? You be the judge.
The number of deer hunters afield dropped from 146,008 in 1993 when SFW was founded to 80,425 in 2011. The number of bucks killed dropped from 23,024 to 21,291. The number of antelope, moose and bison hunters and animals harvested also declined during that same time period.
The success stories are elk and bighorn sheep. Utah elk hunters have increased from 48,372 in 1993 to 57,241 in 2011, with the bull harvest going from 6,066 to 6,923. The bighorn sheep harvest jumped from 17 in 1993 to 54 in 2011.
While SFW and its many subsidiaries might do some good for wildlife, those who donate thinking they are helping big game should realize that many of these groups? officers have a heavy financial stake in the operation. And the continued commercialization of what is the public?s wildlife should cause concern that herds are being managed not on the basis of sound biology but in ways to produce more cash.
By Tom Wharton
The Salt Lake Tribune
When Don Peay founded Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife in 1993, few could have dreamed that it would blossom into a powerful multi-million operation with a presence in seven western states and in national politics.
The group formed as Utah mule deer populations were crashing. Peay, an avid hunter, decided to do something about it.
There is little doubt that Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife has done much good. It has spent money to purchase or improve wildlife habitat and raised $7.2 million for conservation over the past 10 years. It recently wrote a check for more than $1 million to the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources.
Such expenditures bring the organization sway with state wildlife managers. Some think the relationship might be too cozy. Money and political clout often give the impression that SFW and not the DWR is in charge of wildlife in Utah.
Consider a 2010 Utah Wildlife Board meeting when SFW president Byron Bateman presented then-DWR director Jim Karpowitz with a check for $391,000 moments before the Wildlife Board passed a controversial proposal largely crafted and promoted by SFW to reduce the number of deer-hunting permits by at least 13,000.
I fear that the organization has become increasingly more about making money for its officers, commercializing Utah?s wildlife, and aligning itself with groups such as off-highway vehicle organizations and right-wing politicians intent on Utah taking over federal public lands. How these things help wildlife or the average hunter escapes me.
Some of SFW?s fundraising efforts, especially those taking advantage of hunters? mythical fears that the main reason for the decline in big game herds, especially mule deer, is predation. Damn the biology or the fact that the reasons deer herds are down are far more complex than predation. Advocating killing wolves, coyotes, cougars and bears to save deer, elk and other big game is a great way to raise funds and gain members. No matter that wiping out predators is ecologically questionable and, except in a few specific units, not particularly effective.
The organization successfully lobbied the Utah Legislature to appropriate general tax dollars as well as raise hunting license fees to increase bounties on coyotes, encouraging the wanton killing of coyotes everywhere. I can't find a single reputable biologist who thinks this action will help deer herds. But the simplistic solution sounds good to uninformed legislators and hunters and helps raise money.
The Utah Legislature also gave an offshoot SFW organization called Big Game Forever a second $300,000 contract to lobby Washington politicians to keep wolves out of Utah. Though a few stray wolves may have wandered into northern Utah, there is no evidence wolves are going to ever be a major problem in the state. There has been no detailed report as to how Big Game Forever spent the first $300,000. The group is not registered to lobby in Washington, D.C.
SFW and its officers also donate money freely to dozens of politicians. One of the recipients was State Sen. Ralph Okerlund, R-Monroe, who received $6,500 in campaign contributions from Peay and Ryan Benson, co-founder of Big Game Forever. Okerlund, the Senate Majority Leader, recommended spending $300,000 the past two years on Big Game Forever?s anti-wolf lobbying campaign.
Figuring out just how much Peay and other officers make in salary or consulting fees is challenging. Money is moved back and forth from non-profits to private corporations among groups such as Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Sportsmen for Habitat, Big Game Forever, Arctic Red River Outfitters, Peay Consulting, World Trophy Outfitters, the Full Curl Society, the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, seven state chapters of SFW and the Mule Deer Foundation ? which is part of a major wildlife convention where the state gives conservation organizations wildlife tags to auction. The groups get to keep 10 percent of the proceeds for administrative costs. In the case of application fees raised at the 2012 Western Hunting and Conservation Expo, hunters pay in hopes of drawing a difficult-to-get hunting tag, SFW and the Mule Deer Foundation reported $613,572 in expenses of holding the drawing, with the remaining $443,417 actually going to conservation projects.
Has any of this helped big game in Utah? You be the judge.
The number of deer hunters afield dropped from 146,008 in 1993 when SFW was founded to 80,425 in 2011. The number of bucks killed dropped from 23,024 to 21,291. The number of antelope, moose and bison hunters and animals harvested also declined during that same time period.
The success stories are elk and bighorn sheep. Utah elk hunters have increased from 48,372 in 1993 to 57,241 in 2011, with the bull harvest going from 6,066 to 6,923. The bighorn sheep harvest jumped from 17 in 1993 to 54 in 2011.
While SFW and its many subsidiaries might do some good for wildlife, those who donate thinking they are helping big game should realize that many of these groups? officers have a heavy financial stake in the operation. And the continued commercialization of what is the public?s wildlife should cause concern that herds are being managed not on the basis of sound biology but in ways to produce more cash.
M
MULEY204
Guest
I DON'T MEAN TO HIJACK THE THREAD 
BUT I NEED SOME CLARITY ON THIS...
I THOUGHT G & F STOOD FOR GAME & FISH AND IF THAT'S THE CASE THEN WHY ARE THEY SPENDING MONEY ON BATS & GROUND SQUIRRELS...
NOW IS THE TIME TO REBUILD OUR BIG GAME HERDS
BUT I NEED SOME CLARITY ON THIS...I THOUGHT G & F STOOD FOR GAME & FISH AND IF THAT'S THE CASE THEN WHY ARE THEY SPENDING MONEY ON BATS & GROUND SQUIRRELS...
NOW IS THE TIME TO REBUILD OUR BIG GAME HERDS
Muley204---There is basicly no logic to your post just because of the name given to the Department. They are required by mandate to do many things that don't involve what you mentioned. Good examples would be licensing boats and quads, enforcing their proper use, etc. Many things they are required to do are by Laws that don't even give them any funds to do it with. Therefore, hunters and fishermen end up having to support all that extra stuff when it should be going to what you think it should. Wyoming is not by itself in this, as most states are experiencing the same budget problems as Wyoming.
S
strang
Guest
The number of deer hunters afield dropped from 146,008 in 1993 when SFW was founded to 80,425 in 2011. The number of bucks killed dropped from 23,024 to 21,291. The number of antelope, moose and bison hunters and animals harvested also declined during that same time period.
In 93 146008 hunters killed 23,024 bucks 15.77% success.
In 2011 80425 hunters killed 21,291 bucks 26.47% success.
Sonuds like Utah still needs to cut tags to me!
In 93 146008 hunters killed 23,024 bucks 15.77% success.
In 2011 80425 hunters killed 21,291 bucks 26.47% success.
Sonuds like Utah still needs to cut tags to me!
G
gunsmoke300
Guest
It sounds to me like if you guys spent more time trying to help and less time being a backset driver we may even get more done. You stated that in 93 there were 146008 hunters now there is only 80425 . and you claim this is all because of SFW well thank you for giving us the credit for having a big stick. But now let me ask you this question. How does this numbers compare to state nation wide. I do believe that hunters have decreased nation wide. The question is have they decreased even more in other states that here. ALSO if the persentage is up for % of bucks taken what in the world is wrong with that. How much money has SFW put on the ground in reclamation project. ohand by the way how much have you put on the ground. Its preaty easly for you to set back and type away your oppiononononon. but lets put your typing to real us.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,448
Nice 1 post---Agenda guy ...
$FW doesn't spend 1 cent unless it is Some One else's money--they recieve thru tag sales, banquets and bid item along with the welfare they recieve from the tax paying public.
Give any of us all the FREE/some one else's money and we could sure as hell go around playing BigShot.
Plus doing what you are suppose to do ???----is a new concept in your eyes??
Robb
$FW doesn't spend 1 cent unless it is Some One else's money--they recieve thru tag sales, banquets and bid item along with the welfare they recieve from the tax paying public.
Give any of us all the FREE/some one else's money and we could sure as hell go around playing BigShot.
Plus doing what you are suppose to do ???----is a new concept in your eyes??
Robb
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-13 AT 07:23AM (MST)[p]Robb---Isn't it interesting that every time a thread like this is discussing SFW that a first poster comes out of the blue like this guy telling us how we are all wrong about them! I'm beginning to wonder if they have a few guys that just go on the net making posts like this. What is really intersting is how SFW touts all the money they are "DONATING" to various projects when almost all of that money was taken from hunters and now even all Utah taxpayers with $600,000 they've been able to lobby their Legislature for the last two years for "wolf work". That's a real good one when they and BGF don't even have a registered lobbyist in DC, LOL!!! Peay, Benson, Bateman and company must be laughing all the way to the bank every time they pull the wool over the eyes of so many Utah residents and get more cash to line pockets of the upper echelon! $300,000 last year and not one thing documented that was done with it and now they've managed to get another $300,000 the same way, all for a little $6,500 personal donation to a Legislator that has enough clout to get the job done for them. $600,000 is one he** of a return on that tiny investment! I'm sure next year they'll say that they achieved their goal and no more wolves are in Utah than there were in 2013, so give us another $300,000!!!
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
BuzzH,
I am disappointed to see you here claiming that WY SFW is "demanding what, when, where and how the WY G&F deals with less funding". When has WY SFW demanded anything? All I have said is that we will be watching to see how/where cuts are made. If it appears as though those cuts were designed to cause pain to Wyoming' sportsmen, you be we will be pointing it out. I also said that it is not only WY SFW and our members which will be tracking these cuts but the legislators as well. Do you think they will not be checking this to see if the cuts make sense or appear designed to cause pain?
WY SFW is not trying to take over anything with regards to the WY G&F Department or Commission. All WY SFW has done is provide feedback from our members. I pointed out how overwhelmingly the one bill which made it to the House floor was defeated to illustrate a flaw in the reasoning of individuals which have posted on this thread. On one hand, WY SFW is told that we are small and insignificant when compared to all sportsmen in this state. On the other hand we are accused of killing all of the G&F funding bills this year.
WY SFW has and will continue to work with G&F on the issue of securing funding; however, we will also continue to ask the hard questions that someone needs to ask. We will continue to work with our legislators as well. At no time has WY SFW ever placed any demands before the G&F or the legislature. That is laughable to think that you or anyone else thinks that is how WY SFW has gotten things done. Afterall, we are only a small & insignificant organization.
What has WY SFW taken a "vast amount of credit for" that would have happened without WY SFW or their support? Could you possinly be talking about the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust? You know that idea that was defeated twice before WY SFW ever existed. Or are you agreeing that even without WY SFW this series of four different bills which sought to increase license fees would have been defeated on their own merits? More than likely, you will claim that wolves would have been delisted even without WY SFW being here.... that must be it.
For the rest of the people who are simply reading the dribble on this thread, I would encourage you to attend the event in Cody. There you can meet with the members of WY SFW and ask them what they think of the group.
Strang,
And you wonder why sportsmen cannot get united. Both BuzzH and JM77 (Jeff Muratore) know full well that WY SFW has helped both of them on issues they wanted or did not want. Once the goal was obtained, they take the credit and attempt to give WY SFW a black eye. Neither of these two are members of WY SFW but them seem to know all about the organization and yet they can point out all of its many flaws. Where would WY SFW be without all of their help?
I am disappointed to see you here claiming that WY SFW is "demanding what, when, where and how the WY G&F deals with less funding". When has WY SFW demanded anything? All I have said is that we will be watching to see how/where cuts are made. If it appears as though those cuts were designed to cause pain to Wyoming' sportsmen, you be we will be pointing it out. I also said that it is not only WY SFW and our members which will be tracking these cuts but the legislators as well. Do you think they will not be checking this to see if the cuts make sense or appear designed to cause pain?
WY SFW is not trying to take over anything with regards to the WY G&F Department or Commission. All WY SFW has done is provide feedback from our members. I pointed out how overwhelmingly the one bill which made it to the House floor was defeated to illustrate a flaw in the reasoning of individuals which have posted on this thread. On one hand, WY SFW is told that we are small and insignificant when compared to all sportsmen in this state. On the other hand we are accused of killing all of the G&F funding bills this year.
WY SFW has and will continue to work with G&F on the issue of securing funding; however, we will also continue to ask the hard questions that someone needs to ask. We will continue to work with our legislators as well. At no time has WY SFW ever placed any demands before the G&F or the legislature. That is laughable to think that you or anyone else thinks that is how WY SFW has gotten things done. Afterall, we are only a small & insignificant organization.
What has WY SFW taken a "vast amount of credit for" that would have happened without WY SFW or their support? Could you possinly be talking about the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust? You know that idea that was defeated twice before WY SFW ever existed. Or are you agreeing that even without WY SFW this series of four different bills which sought to increase license fees would have been defeated on their own merits? More than likely, you will claim that wolves would have been delisted even without WY SFW being here.... that must be it.
For the rest of the people who are simply reading the dribble on this thread, I would encourage you to attend the event in Cody. There you can meet with the members of WY SFW and ask them what they think of the group.
Strang,
And you wonder why sportsmen cannot get united. Both BuzzH and JM77 (Jeff Muratore) know full well that WY SFW has helped both of them on issues they wanted or did not want. Once the goal was obtained, they take the credit and attempt to give WY SFW a black eye. Neither of these two are members of WY SFW but them seem to know all about the organization and yet they can point out all of its many flaws. Where would WY SFW be without all of their help?
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-13 AT 09:41AM (MST)[p]Another post with a bunch of BS mumbo jumbo that is certainly not factual if you go back over your other posts from the time the G&F announced they needed money and were having an independent company look into methods to get that money. Your posts telling what you would be doing to indercut the G&F if they didn't listen to your group was certainly accomplished by your lobbying to defeat those fee increase Bills! Now you've certainly stated that the G&F will either cut where you want them to cut or you'll be on the Legislature to tell them to do what you want. Yep, so much for touting as you did several times in discussions with BuzzH that YOUR G&F Department is autonomous, LOL! Now if they don't do what you want you and the Legislature will take care of them, LOL!!! I'm still waiting to hear the answer to the one question I'll now ask for the third time. HOW MANY MEMBERS DOES WYSFW HAVE AT THE PRESENT TIME?
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,397
Smokestick(Bob Wharff)
You prove my point Bob because I wonder if you read my comment all the way through? I'll take issue with your comment that anyone involved in the Falls Ranch Proposal II ever attempted to give you or SFW a "black eye". Or for that matter not give credit where credit is due. As always you will form your own opinion and not listen. I'm stating the facts as I know them and challenge you to ask anyone involved if what I'm saying is wrong.
I applaud your effort to 'watchdog' the G&F in the ongoing funding cuts process. But you must seriously consider why it is you and SFW have an issue with many sportsman and why most choose not to join SFW. You can just 'take sides' or you can try and fix this, but so far you have shown yourself not to be a problem solver.
In no case can I find divided sportsman a help to sportsman in general and as Executive Director of WYSFW your negative comments on this forum are appalling. Whether you, me, or anyone else cares to admit it, you and SFW represent all sportsman in name, members or not. I expect that someone in your position act like it!
You prove my point Bob because I wonder if you read my comment all the way through? I'll take issue with your comment that anyone involved in the Falls Ranch Proposal II ever attempted to give you or SFW a "black eye". Or for that matter not give credit where credit is due. As always you will form your own opinion and not listen. I'm stating the facts as I know them and challenge you to ask anyone involved if what I'm saying is wrong.
I applaud your effort to 'watchdog' the G&F in the ongoing funding cuts process. But you must seriously consider why it is you and SFW have an issue with many sportsman and why most choose not to join SFW. You can just 'take sides' or you can try and fix this, but so far you have shown yourself not to be a problem solver.
In no case can I find divided sportsman a help to sportsman in general and as Executive Director of WYSFW your negative comments on this forum are appalling. Whether you, me, or anyone else cares to admit it, you and SFW represent all sportsman in name, members or not. I expect that someone in your position act like it!
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-13 AT 11:49AM (MST)[p]Good post jm77! It amazes me that all these people in SFW, including Smokestick, all say how the hunting community is so divided and we all need to come together. If they looked in the mirror, they would see that THEY are the biggest dividing force out there right now in the Rocky Mountain States where they are trying to gain control and trying to make them all like Utah!
BuzzH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,202
Smokestick,
I dont see why you'd be disappointed with my comments about WYSFW wanting to make demands of the WYG&F.
Heres what you said, WY SFW members will be attending G&F meetings to ensure that cuts are made where they need to be and where it makes the most sense.
I invite you to watch how WY SFW reacts when programs are cut when other options are available. More importantly, watch how our legislators respond and ask what is motivating that response.
Unless my comprehension of the English Language has somehow decreased...there isnt 2 ways to read those comments.
Just how are you going to ensure anything without placing demands on the WYG&F?
I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide where cuts need to be made?
I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide if cutting certain items makes sense?
I suppose a certain level of arrogance is needed to pull the wool over the eyes of the SFW loyalists...that crap doesnt impress me at all.
You also listed several of the instances where WYSFW has been quick to take credit for certain things getting done, or not getting done. Its funny, that only after being called on the carpet, do you ever feel inclined to give anyone else credit for anything.
While I didnt say anything at the time, I about laughed when you told me at the EXPO, "I killed that preference point bill in Wyoming".
Pretty funny, considering that myself and a large circle of Wyoming hunters not affiliated with SFW in any way, did a lot more than WYFW on that. I know the work that many put into seeing that bill fail. Many of those people post on this board...dwalton, Cade, Scott, TOPGUN, Strang, to name just a few (sorry if I left anyone out) who really made a big difference. I also realize that there were a lot people that I dont know that did a lot of work on killing that wreck of bill as well.
I think you must have had a lapse in remembering who you were talking to there...only explaination I can come up with that makes sense.
Just another classic example of WYSFW taking full on credit for something that clearly was a massive effort by many, many, many sportsmen, most who dont belong to any group.
WYSFW is like a bad supervisor who takes your good ideas and hard work...and makes both their own by the end of the day.
Never did have much use for that kind of behavior...and dont suffer it much anymore.
I dont see why you'd be disappointed with my comments about WYSFW wanting to make demands of the WYG&F.
Heres what you said, WY SFW members will be attending G&F meetings to ensure that cuts are made where they need to be and where it makes the most sense.
I invite you to watch how WY SFW reacts when programs are cut when other options are available. More importantly, watch how our legislators respond and ask what is motivating that response.
Unless my comprehension of the English Language has somehow decreased...there isnt 2 ways to read those comments.
Just how are you going to ensure anything without placing demands on the WYG&F?
I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide where cuts need to be made?
I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide if cutting certain items makes sense?
I suppose a certain level of arrogance is needed to pull the wool over the eyes of the SFW loyalists...that crap doesnt impress me at all.
You also listed several of the instances where WYSFW has been quick to take credit for certain things getting done, or not getting done. Its funny, that only after being called on the carpet, do you ever feel inclined to give anyone else credit for anything.
While I didnt say anything at the time, I about laughed when you told me at the EXPO, "I killed that preference point bill in Wyoming".
Pretty funny, considering that myself and a large circle of Wyoming hunters not affiliated with SFW in any way, did a lot more than WYFW on that. I know the work that many put into seeing that bill fail. Many of those people post on this board...dwalton, Cade, Scott, TOPGUN, Strang, to name just a few (sorry if I left anyone out) who really made a big difference. I also realize that there were a lot people that I dont know that did a lot of work on killing that wreck of bill as well.
I think you must have had a lapse in remembering who you were talking to there...only explaination I can come up with that makes sense.
Just another classic example of WYSFW taking full on credit for something that clearly was a massive effort by many, many, many sportsmen, most who dont belong to any group.
WYSFW is like a bad supervisor who takes your good ideas and hard work...and makes both their own by the end of the day.
Never did have much use for that kind of behavior...and dont suffer it much anymore.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,590
My Wyoming friends. You guys have been warned. Us Utah guys didn't get a warning, we are where the cancer started. SFW is great at claiming credit, and shucking blame. They did help us with the Prop 5 push years back, and that was great. THEY HAVEN'T done anything for mule deer. They are great at using the wolf as a money making tool, BGF(one of SFW's money laundering partners) just got a cool $300,000 to lobby against wolves, even though they are not registered lobbyists,not do they have a prescence in Washington, nor do they account for where the money went. We all agree that sportsmen need a common voice, and thats how SFW spreads its cancer, but BEWARE, they aren't interested in any voice, just bank accounts.
SFW HAS YET TO FIX ANYTHING IN UTAH, yet they have sucked up MILLIONS of dollars, with little or no accountability. BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE!!!
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
SFW HAS YET TO FIX ANYTHING IN UTAH, yet they have sucked up MILLIONS of dollars, with little or no accountability. BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE!!!
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Buckhunter1
Active Member
- Messages
- 569
Is this the same SFW that pulled a bunch of B.S in Arizona? Buying politicians and stealing the best tags for the highest bidders? Why would antbody support that? BH1
M
MULEY204
Guest
HEY TOPGUN, JUST BECAUSE I AM BORED AND ATTEMPT TO STIR A POT OR GET THINGS SIDETRACKED...DOSEN'T MEAN YOU NEED TO RAIN ON MY PARADE TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND RELAX....
IS THIS THE ANNUAL SFW PISSING CONTEST.
TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND RELAX....IS THIS THE ANNUAL SFW PISSING CONTEST.
>HEY TOPGUN, JUST BECAUSE I AM
>BORED AND ATTEMPT TO STIR
>A POT OR GET THINGS
>SIDETRACKED...DOSEN'T MEAN YOU NEED TO
>RAIN ON MY PARADE
> TAKE A DEEP BREATH
>AND RELAX....
>
>IS THIS THE ANNUAL SFW PISSING
>CONTEST.
***Nope, it's just another daily "call out the SFW for all the BS they post" days!!!
>BORED AND ATTEMPT TO STIR
>A POT OR GET THINGS
>SIDETRACKED...DOSEN'T MEAN YOU NEED TO
>RAIN ON MY PARADE
> TAKE A DEEP BREATH
>AND RELAX....
>
>IS THIS THE ANNUAL SFW PISSING
>CONTEST.
***Nope, it's just another daily "call out the SFW for all the BS they post" days!!!
llamapacker
Moderator
- Messages
- 1,068
Continue to learn about SFW, and RUN away from WY SFW. They are as small as they are because many have learned about SFW in Utah and want nothing to do with that operation. WY SFW would gladly be just like SFW in Utah if they could con enough sportsmen.
I also met Bob at the Expo in SLC, and was amazed at the BS coming from him. There is no doubt that WY SFW has been involved in a few good projects, and the same can be said for SFW in Utah. They do support and participate in some good projects for sportsmen. It is really a smokescreen to hook in new members (dupes) so they can pursue their real objective of privatizing state wildlife and selling tags to the wealthy. You have to look beyond the slick PR and find our where the bulk of the money is going to understand the true objectives. Good luck getting a full accounting of their finances. They could teach the mob a thing or two about how to hide money and avoid financial accountability. The need to hide their finances is not because their members agree with how the money is being spent. The spotlight of accountability always sends the rats scurrying for the dark.
Bill
I also met Bob at the Expo in SLC, and was amazed at the BS coming from him. There is no doubt that WY SFW has been involved in a few good projects, and the same can be said for SFW in Utah. They do support and participate in some good projects for sportsmen. It is really a smokescreen to hook in new members (dupes) so they can pursue their real objective of privatizing state wildlife and selling tags to the wealthy. You have to look beyond the slick PR and find our where the bulk of the money is going to understand the true objectives. Good luck getting a full accounting of their finances. They could teach the mob a thing or two about how to hide money and avoid financial accountability. The need to hide their finances is not because their members agree with how the money is being spent. The spotlight of accountability always sends the rats scurrying for the dark.
Bill
>Trouble with Sportsmen for Fish &
>Wildlife is that its national
>leaders are more for themselves
>than they are for fish
>and wildlife.
***That is probably the best post by a newbie I've ever seen on the site. If you look at most of the posts on this subject, almost every single person has that problem and not with the blue collar workers who are busting their butts doing all the ground level projects. Welcome aboard!!!
>Wildlife is that its national
>leaders are more for themselves
>than they are for fish
>and wildlife.
***That is probably the best post by a newbie I've ever seen on the site. If you look at most of the posts on this subject, almost every single person has that problem and not with the blue collar workers who are busting their butts doing all the ground level projects. Welcome aboard!!!
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,448
Simply clear all this up with the tax fillings link for ~~
The non-profit Con. Org. SFW-Wyoming.
Everything will be in Black-n-White..should clear everything up for sure...could put the 'haters' to bed for ever....
Hey thanks Bob ----
Robb
The non-profit Con. Org. SFW-Wyoming.
Everything will be in Black-n-White..should clear everything up for sure...could put the 'haters' to bed for ever....
Hey thanks Bob ----
Robb
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
Just for the record, I was attending the G&F Commission meeting in Gillette, WY. That is one way to ensure that cuts are made where they need to be made. It isn't by making demands, BuzzH, and you know that. It is by participating in the process.
How many of WY SFW critics bothered to attend?
I will tell you, that for the first time I can recall, there were several legislators which attended the G&F Commission meeting. Some only attended for a brief period of time while a few were there throughout.
I apologize for not being able to "live" on mm as some apparently do, but while these critics are on here criticizing WY SFW and our efforts to make a difference WY SFW continues to work for solutions.
BuzzH,
You asked the following:
"I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide where cuts need to be made?"
"I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide if cutting certain items makes sense?"
Here is my reply: Anyone, not just myself or WY SFW, is more qualified to decide where cuts need to be made and if certain cuts make sense by attending G&F meetings, listening to and engaging in discussions pertaining to G&F budgets and by participting in those discussion. WY SFW and our state leadership have been engaged throughout this entire process. We have particiapted in several meetings with the G&F and they have been more than willing to meet with us to answer our questions.
What I don't see is why so many were willing to accept a license fee increase when they didn't attend very many meetings? Perhaps everyone just prefers to email the Department rather than attend their meetings. I don't know the answer to my question but I can tell you that WY SFW does show up. Love us or hate us, at least you, BuzzH, should be able to admit that.
BuzzH, everyone is a critic but no one else is even attempting to attend. I apologize if I offended you in SLC, and I know that you and your friends lobbied hard to kill some bills. I don't recall taking "full" credit for that but I will take you for your word. What I was trying to convey to you when we were talking about resident preference point bill was the fact that legislators called specifically called me up to ask my opinion and what position WY SFW had regarding the bill. What I recall stating was that those with which I spoke to drove it in the direction I suggested to them. As you well know the issue has not been resolved, only delayed so that it could be better understood by our legislators before they take action.
The thing you (BuzzH) fail to understand is that while you were pushing hard to defeat the non-resident preference point bill there was another well organized group of sportsmen pushing just as hard for the bill. I was told it was JM77 (JeffM) but as he stated, I have not returned his call.
One thing that I do realize is that WY SFW, as well as all of the other SFW states, are very different from most other conservation organizations in that we are also politically engaged. I wonder how much of the dissent towards SFW, in general, is politically motivated? I believe that is also a question that sportsmen need to be asking themselves. It has been pointed out in other threads on this site that most of the critics are coming from groups which are not alligned with hunters, anglers or trappers.
TOPGUN,
I find it interesting that you stated in your post #32 of this thread. It reads: Good post jm77! It amazes me that all these people in SFW, including Smokestick, all say how the hunting community is so divided and we all need to come together. If they looked in the mirror, they would see that THEY are the biggest dividing force out there right now in the Rocky Mountain States where they are trying to gain control and trying to make them all like Utah!
Your posts here are anything but an attempt to bring sportsmen together. Maybe it is you that should be looking in the mirror. You keep stating that all of these other SFW states are trying to make every state like UTAH. Others keep making this same assumption. Jdubya is flatout wrong with his statement in post #43. Just who are the "natinoal leaders" to which he refers?
There are no national leaders and whether or not our critics will admit it, we are all seperate and independent. Why? Because each state has their own issues. As such, each state will find their own solutions. Each state will work with their respective state wildlife management agencies and continue participating in the processes they have established which allow sportsmen to engage with them. All of which follow the North American Model of Wildlife Management.
nfh,
I hope that you will introduce yourself to me at the Big Horn Basin event in Cody. I will be in attendance and will introduce you to our Board Members in attendance. You can ask them any question you want. I would encourage you to do so and find out for yourself about WY SFW.
How many of WY SFW critics bothered to attend?
I will tell you, that for the first time I can recall, there were several legislators which attended the G&F Commission meeting. Some only attended for a brief period of time while a few were there throughout.
I apologize for not being able to "live" on mm as some apparently do, but while these critics are on here criticizing WY SFW and our efforts to make a difference WY SFW continues to work for solutions.
BuzzH,
You asked the following:
"I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide where cuts need to be made?"
"I'd also like to know what qualifies you to decide if cutting certain items makes sense?"
Here is my reply: Anyone, not just myself or WY SFW, is more qualified to decide where cuts need to be made and if certain cuts make sense by attending G&F meetings, listening to and engaging in discussions pertaining to G&F budgets and by participting in those discussion. WY SFW and our state leadership have been engaged throughout this entire process. We have particiapted in several meetings with the G&F and they have been more than willing to meet with us to answer our questions.
What I don't see is why so many were willing to accept a license fee increase when they didn't attend very many meetings? Perhaps everyone just prefers to email the Department rather than attend their meetings. I don't know the answer to my question but I can tell you that WY SFW does show up. Love us or hate us, at least you, BuzzH, should be able to admit that.
BuzzH, everyone is a critic but no one else is even attempting to attend. I apologize if I offended you in SLC, and I know that you and your friends lobbied hard to kill some bills. I don't recall taking "full" credit for that but I will take you for your word. What I was trying to convey to you when we were talking about resident preference point bill was the fact that legislators called specifically called me up to ask my opinion and what position WY SFW had regarding the bill. What I recall stating was that those with which I spoke to drove it in the direction I suggested to them. As you well know the issue has not been resolved, only delayed so that it could be better understood by our legislators before they take action.
The thing you (BuzzH) fail to understand is that while you were pushing hard to defeat the non-resident preference point bill there was another well organized group of sportsmen pushing just as hard for the bill. I was told it was JM77 (JeffM) but as he stated, I have not returned his call.
One thing that I do realize is that WY SFW, as well as all of the other SFW states, are very different from most other conservation organizations in that we are also politically engaged. I wonder how much of the dissent towards SFW, in general, is politically motivated? I believe that is also a question that sportsmen need to be asking themselves. It has been pointed out in other threads on this site that most of the critics are coming from groups which are not alligned with hunters, anglers or trappers.
TOPGUN,
I find it interesting that you stated in your post #32 of this thread. It reads: Good post jm77! It amazes me that all these people in SFW, including Smokestick, all say how the hunting community is so divided and we all need to come together. If they looked in the mirror, they would see that THEY are the biggest dividing force out there right now in the Rocky Mountain States where they are trying to gain control and trying to make them all like Utah!
Your posts here are anything but an attempt to bring sportsmen together. Maybe it is you that should be looking in the mirror. You keep stating that all of these other SFW states are trying to make every state like UTAH. Others keep making this same assumption. Jdubya is flatout wrong with his statement in post #43. Just who are the "natinoal leaders" to which he refers?
There are no national leaders and whether or not our critics will admit it, we are all seperate and independent. Why? Because each state has their own issues. As such, each state will find their own solutions. Each state will work with their respective state wildlife management agencies and continue participating in the processes they have established which allow sportsmen to engage with them. All of which follow the North American Model of Wildlife Management.
nfh,
I hope that you will introduce yourself to me at the Big Horn Basin event in Cody. I will be in attendance and will introduce you to our Board Members in attendance. You can ask them any question you want. I would encourage you to do so and find out for yourself about WY SFW.
Funny how every time Smokestick comes on it is with just more BS to tell each of us that we are the problem, but will never answer a question. I will ask it again! HOW MANY MEMBERS IN THE WYSFW DO YOU REPRESENT? Incidentally, you dang well better be going to all those meetings and not be on here like a retired guy like me can be since you are employed by that group to speak for them, LOL!!! PS: As most others have told ou on the Forums, you aren't doing a very good job of it either!
destroyer350
Active Member
- Messages
- 485
Keep the chin up Bobby boy as Dummit would say, missed ya at the Expo this year, hope the family is doing well!!
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
TOPGUN,
You can ask your question as much as you like. You can ask it is Caps. You can ask it in bold print. As long as you are so ignorant to assume that everything I print it "BS", there is absolutely no reason to even give you the dignity of a response.
Yep, I do attend those meetings. Our members are informed as best as I can inform them. I am trying to improve my ability to inform them and will most likely spend less time on these boards. It appears that your hatred of anything SFW related has blinded you beyond recovery.
As I have said before, you appear very knowledgeable about hunting in Wyoming and appear eager to demonstrate it by helping others on this site. However, you are very abrasive in a lot of your comments, especially with people that offer a differing opinion than yours.
It is easy to be a critic when it is difficult to get things done. I will continue working to deliver results for WY SFW members and you (and other anti-SFW critics) are welcome to continue your critique of my performance. The proof's in the pudding, so to speak.
You can ask your question as much as you like. You can ask it is Caps. You can ask it in bold print. As long as you are so ignorant to assume that everything I print it "BS", there is absolutely no reason to even give you the dignity of a response.
Yep, I do attend those meetings. Our members are informed as best as I can inform them. I am trying to improve my ability to inform them and will most likely spend less time on these boards. It appears that your hatred of anything SFW related has blinded you beyond recovery.
As I have said before, you appear very knowledgeable about hunting in Wyoming and appear eager to demonstrate it by helping others on this site. However, you are very abrasive in a lot of your comments, especially with people that offer a differing opinion than yours.
It is easy to be a critic when it is difficult to get things done. I will continue working to deliver results for WY SFW members and you (and other anti-SFW critics) are welcome to continue your critique of my performance. The proof's in the pudding, so to speak.
SMOKESTICK
Active Member
- Messages
- 852
Sorry I missed you. I was down there most of the event bud left Saturday evening as I had to get back to Cheyenne to close out a couple more bills.
I did get to visit with Brenda & Gale at our Evanston banquet.
Next time you are around Evanston, give me a shout and we can get some lunch.
I did get to visit with Brenda & Gale at our Evanston banquet.
Next time you are around Evanston, give me a shout and we can get some lunch.
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-13 AT 01:09PM (MST)[p]TOPGUN,
>
>You can ask your question as
>much as you like.
>You can ask it is
>Caps. You can ask
>it in bold print.
>As long as you are
>so ignorant to assume that
>everything I print it "BS",
>there is absolutely no reason
>to even give you the
>dignity of a response.
>
>Yep, I do attend those meetings.
> Our members are informed
>as best as I can
>inform them. I am
>trying to improve my ability
>to inform them and will
>most likely spend less time
>on these boards. It
>appears that your hatred of
>anything SFW related has blinded
>you beyond recovery.
>
>As I have said before, you
>appear very knowledgeable about hunting
>in Wyoming and appear eager
>to demonstrate it by helping
>others on this site.
>However, you are very abrasive
>in a lot of your
>comments, especially with people that
>offer a differing opinion than
>yours.
>
>It is easy to be a
>critic when it is difficult
>to get things done.
>I will continue working to
>deliver results for WY SFW
>members and you (and other
>anti-SFW critics) are welcome to
>continue your critique of my
>performance. The proof's in
>the pudding, so to speak.
>
It's exactly replies like this that EVERYONE gets from you that I call them BS!!! I'm not ignorant! I'm just up on people like you that operate to the detriment of the majority and you get pissed when people call you out on it! Well guess what, as you've had your chance and with this latest attack you've made against the G&F getting needed operational monies I'll be on your azz from here! You've shown your true colors as to what you're about just like DP and the rest of the top brass and that's to run a states' G&F for your benefit!!! You and the rest of your top brass from Utah on down all operate in the same manner whether you'll admit it or not and it makes me sick! Same MO in every state and that's to try and take over a G&F Commission, Legislative positions, grab tags to make more money and take chances away from average people to hunt great units, get more transferrable landowner tags, outfitter subsidies, etc. Then you have the nerve to come on a hunting website and tell everyone they need to work together and become united with you and your ways because it's our fault all these problems are occurring! To that I'll give you a double BS!!! You have very appropriately stated that the proof is in the pudding and to that I'll just say that anyone that looks deeply enough into what you are doing will find that the pudding sucks!!!
>
>You can ask your question as
>much as you like.
>You can ask it is
>Caps. You can ask
>it in bold print.
>As long as you are
>so ignorant to assume that
>everything I print it "BS",
>there is absolutely no reason
>to even give you the
>dignity of a response.
>
>Yep, I do attend those meetings.
> Our members are informed
>as best as I can
>inform them. I am
>trying to improve my ability
>to inform them and will
>most likely spend less time
>on these boards. It
>appears that your hatred of
>anything SFW related has blinded
>you beyond recovery.
>
>As I have said before, you
>appear very knowledgeable about hunting
>in Wyoming and appear eager
>to demonstrate it by helping
>others on this site.
>However, you are very abrasive
>in a lot of your
>comments, especially with people that
>offer a differing opinion than
>yours.
>
>It is easy to be a
>critic when it is difficult
>to get things done.
>I will continue working to
>deliver results for WY SFW
>members and you (and other
>anti-SFW critics) are welcome to
>continue your critique of my
>performance. The proof's in
>the pudding, so to speak.
>
It's exactly replies like this that EVERYONE gets from you that I call them BS!!! I'm not ignorant! I'm just up on people like you that operate to the detriment of the majority and you get pissed when people call you out on it! Well guess what, as you've had your chance and with this latest attack you've made against the G&F getting needed operational monies I'll be on your azz from here! You've shown your true colors as to what you're about just like DP and the rest of the top brass and that's to run a states' G&F for your benefit!!! You and the rest of your top brass from Utah on down all operate in the same manner whether you'll admit it or not and it makes me sick! Same MO in every state and that's to try and take over a G&F Commission, Legislative positions, grab tags to make more money and take chances away from average people to hunt great units, get more transferrable landowner tags, outfitter subsidies, etc. Then you have the nerve to come on a hunting website and tell everyone they need to work together and become united with you and your ways because it's our fault all these problems are occurring! To that I'll give you a double BS!!! You have very appropriately stated that the proof is in the pudding and to that I'll just say that anyone that looks deeply enough into what you are doing will find that the pudding sucks!!!
billythekid
Active Member
- Messages
- 435
toppers and buzzy,
you guys can't get enough of yourselves. toppers, the article you posted from the salt lake paper half way through the thread is a joke and you should feel ashamed for aligning yourself with the author. pathetic is your stance on predators and the impacts by them on big game populations.
you guys can't get enough of yourselves. toppers, the article you posted from the salt lake paper half way through the thread is a joke and you should feel ashamed for aligning yourself with the author. pathetic is your stance on predators and the impacts by them on big game populations.
LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-13 AT 07:09AM (MST)[p]>toppers and buzzy,
>
>you guys can't get enough of
>yourselves. toppers, the article
>you posted from the salt
>lake paper half way through
>the thread is a joke
>and you should feel ashamed
>for aligning yourself with the
>author. pathetic is your
>stance on predators and the
>impacts by them on big
>game populations.
***Here was my last and only sentence referencing that article I posted that you are referring to: "It looks like Utah is really starting to question the ring leader of SFW and all the other groups mentioned in this article that just came out in the SLC newspaper in his home state today". Therefore, you're actually the joke because obviously I didn't say I agreed with a single sentence in that article, so don't put words in my mouth or say you know what I'm thinking on predators! Now why don't you go play out on a freeway during rush hour somwehere kid, if you can't add any more to a thread than you always do like that post!!!
>
>you guys can't get enough of
>yourselves. toppers, the article
>you posted from the salt
>lake paper half way through
>the thread is a joke
>and you should feel ashamed
>for aligning yourself with the
>author. pathetic is your
>stance on predators and the
>impacts by them on big
>game populations.
***Here was my last and only sentence referencing that article I posted that you are referring to: "It looks like Utah is really starting to question the ring leader of SFW and all the other groups mentioned in this article that just came out in the SLC newspaper in his home state today". Therefore, you're actually the joke because obviously I didn't say I agreed with a single sentence in that article, so don't put words in my mouth or say you know what I'm thinking on predators! Now why don't you go play out on a freeway during rush hour somwehere kid, if you can't add any more to a thread than you always do like that post!!!
O
OttercreekKid
Guest
Topgun, your so smart. Are you sure your not a politician, you sure sound like one.
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-13 AT 06:51PM (MST)[p]>Topgun, your so smart. Are
>you sure your not a
>politician, you sure sound like
>one.
***You "kids" need to go back to school and learn proper English usage, spelling, and punctuation before you make "smart type" comments! It shouldn't be "your" in your sentences, but rather "you're", meaning "you are" so smart. "Your" is possessive and shouldn't be used the way you did! I won't even touch the previous kid post that had not one capital or punctuation mark in 3 whole lines. So much for smart, LOL!
>you sure your not a
>politician, you sure sound like
>one.
***You "kids" need to go back to school and learn proper English usage, spelling, and punctuation before you make "smart type" comments! It shouldn't be "your" in your sentences, but rather "you're", meaning "you are" so smart. "Your" is possessive and shouldn't be used the way you did! I won't even touch the previous kid post that had not one capital or punctuation mark in 3 whole lines. So much for smart, LOL!
O
OttercreekKid
Guest
Yep, that's what I said. Sound like Obama to me, spin it the way it makes you sound right.
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
