Solar Panels on your House?

grizzly

grizzly

Long Time Member
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Does anybody have solar on their house and have thoughts they're willing to share? @DeerHunter53?

I'm getting ready to build a house and have looked at solar panels with a battery backup. The system the guy recommended was 10kwh with a 15kwh battery backup. He estimated $30k installed and said it would "cover a $150/month electric bill."

That's a 16yr ROI if there's no maintenance. I like the idea but don't see it how it makes sense for me financially ?. What am I missing?

Also, it'll be on propane so I'm going to put a backup generator regardless of whether I do solar or not - so I'll have the emergency side already covered.

Thanks in advance.
 
The Solar Boys Came Through This Country in the 80's!

Several Years Later the County Building/Taxing Department Started Taxing Anybody That Had Solar Panels on their Roofs!

Almost All Them Solar Panels are Gone Now!

I Think Having The Back-up Power/Generator Would Be Worth Having!
 
My cabin is solar, only difference being it’s off the grid. I can’t remember the panel specs, but it’s 8 panels feeding 16 6v batteries with a 25 kw kohler propane generator. The genset is a 4cyl gm engine. Its a 48 volt system that sends 110 and 220 to the house.

It’ll run the place all night on the batteries, so the generator is truly a backup. That’s the idea anyway. The genset gets more hours exercising than charging the batteries. For example, it hasn’t run from a demand all year. But I haven’t plugged in a crock pot either.

Anyway, two thoughts. First, make sure the solar components are from a quality manufacturer who will be in biz when you need them down the road. There is a lot of turnover in that biz. Mine is Outback and I couldn’t be happier.

Second, if I was on the grid I would stay away from the batteries. They are a nasty pita, are dangerous, and a huge maint chore. Hooked to the grid, you don’t need them with the backup generator. All the panels will do is make the meter run backwards which is what you want. If there’s a power outage the charge controller will kick the genset on just fine.

The batteries alone on mine are $8k ish (+/- 7 yr lifespan). You don’t need that on the grid. And my generator will run for hundreds of hours on a 500 gl propane tank.

If you’re curious about more details, I can dig the paperwork out.
 
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ROI's are usually too optimistic in my experience. We've done a lot of solar installations. Have you had them price it out without batteries? Whats the ROI then?

Will the solar panels be going on your roof? Or stand alone nearby? Roofers love solar panels :ROFLMAO:

We put a wind generator on someone's house last year with an ROI of 7 years. I believe a wind generator is more environmentally friendly when compared to solar panels. And especially solar panels with a battery system.

It really comes down to what you want. Are you trying to be more self reliant? Environmentally friendly? Etc. I think out of the 20ish solar panel jobs we did in 2021 only 1 customer found the ROI very important. The average price of the homes we did were in the 750k range so the clients were not concerned about the cost or the ROI.

Also if you are somewhat mechanically inclined at all you could do the solar installation yourself. Its really not difficult at all. My guys hate doing them as they find it boring. We've talked a lot of our commercial contractors through installations to save them $$$ etc. It just depends on how comfortable you are in doing DIY projects...

*Edit* It looks like you did your own ROI based off 150 a month divided by 30k. I would bet an actual ROI would be less as you have to assume utility rates will go up at least 3-5 times in that time frame...
 
Putting Solar Panels Up Where The F'N Sun Don't Shine Huh?

SS! said:
ROI's are usually too optimistic in my experience. We've done a lot of solar installations. Have you had them price it out without batteries? Whats the ROI then?

Will the solar panels be going on your roof? Or stand alone nearby? Roofers love solar panels :ROFLMAO:

We put a wind generator on someone's house last year with an ROI of 7 years. I believe a wind generator is more environmentally friendly when compared to solar panels. And especially solar panels with a battery system.

It really comes down to what you want. Are you trying to be more self reliant? Environmentally friendly? Etc. I think out of the 20ish solar panel jobs we did in 2021 only 1 customer found the ROI very important. The average price of the homes we did were in the 750k range so the clients were not concerned about the cost or the ROI.

Also if you are somewhat mechanically inclined at all you could do the solar installation yourself. Its really not difficult at all. My guys hate doing them as they find it boring. We've talked a lot of our commercial contractors through installations to save them $$$ etc. It just depends on how comfortable you are in doing DIY projects...

*Edit* It looks like you did your own ROI based off 150 a month divided by 30k. I would bet an actual ROI would be less as you have to assume utility rates will go up at least 3-5 times in that time frame...
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I think if you own the system and using it to charge your own power bank then it can be beneficial but if a salesman is telling you it will save you money because the unused power goes back to the grid they are full of it. I came close to buying but glad I didn’t and a lot of people in az are wishing they didn’t because their monthly power costs didn’t decrease.

Additionally people are having difficulty with home resale because the 30K panel installation on the house is wrapped into the initial sales and cannot be written into the new mortgage. Essentially to buy a home with existing panels one would have to have two loans, one for the house and one for the panels.
My .02c.
 
Ed, thanks for posting. We are building in AZ right now. We are considering solar but we are on the fence. One thing that made me think I might do it would be the bump in resale value. Our panels will not be financed, we will pay cash. I think the example you mentioned would be for leased or financed panels correct?
 
Several guys I work with have the solar panels, no batteries. They're on the grid. Here in Phoenix, they're saving a lot during the summers. They bought systems with individual inverters, so if one panel dies, the rest still work.
 
I have to agree with Bluehair, If you are on the grid for power, you do not need the batteries or the extra expense to install a battery backup. Your generator will take care of that in the event of a grid power failure. Our electrician, whom we trust, told us that and also told us to buy the solar outright and not go with one of those "free cost" solar systems where the installing company owns the system and you pay them a reduced fee for your electricity. They get all the gravy and you get the shaft.
If you buy it outright, you will get a Federal $2,600.00 tax break and about after 5-6 years your electricity savings will pay for the cost of installing the system. After that it is all gravy. Be sure to shop around for a good installer for best price and you should get a 25 year warranty on all parts and panels.
We plan to install a solar system on our new house this coming spring. My son has solar on his house and he gets $15.00 -$30.00 electric bills during the summer when running the home air condition system. Otherwise his bill would have been $300-$400 per month. Solar company installers are like mechanics, some are good, some damn good and there is fly by nights that will steal your wallet after promising you the moon. Get referrals from previous customers.
RELH
 
For years we thought after the new roof, we would do solar.

Got the new roof, but like Grizz, looking at the ROI we were looking at 15yrs.

My thought was that in 15yrs, solar would be cheaper, and more efficient, so we didn't pull the trigger. Figuring instead we would be better off with more efficient AC/HEAT.
 
Solar just doesn’t pencil out. Every o e talks about the low monthly electrical bill but not the 20k it costs and the 20 years to just break even, not “pay for itself” by which time your probably putting more money into it or way out dated with your technology.

Only place it makes sense is off grid. But your paying for the luxury of having it there. It’s not paying you
 
Hey Hossy!

You Might Have To Put a HUGE Solar System In To Charge Your Next 3500!

Cuzz The World We Live in Ain't Prepared for All These Electric Vehicles!
 
elkassassin said:
The Bad News is Hossy!

The 04 is gonna Wear Out One of These Years!

Merry Christmas To You as Well!
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Ya, I know.

Work truck was an 02 chev 2500 with 6.0,

203,000 miles

5.9 has 128k

Got a 16yr old on Sunday, so the idea was let him destroy the chev, make the 5.9 my new work truck, pick up a newer trailer puller.

That idea lasted about a week. The 5.9 went back to it's spot in the garage and I bought a used work truck.

Looked at 2 Duramax

05 with 72k. $32k. Nice truck, until the Carfax showed it had been wrecked, 3times

Best was a 04 Duramax. 42k miles. Spotless, garage queen.
$38k. That's $4k more than dude paid for it new. Nice truck, but good lord, it's still older than my oldest kid. I couldn't pull the trigger on it.
 
Electricity is expensive, and likely to become much more so--especially for anyone on PGE. On top of that, the first thing to fail during a fire when you need to pump water is the electric grid. Fire protection was my foremost concern when deciding upon a back-up energy solution. A 14+ kW generator would completely drain my 250 gallon propane tank (and $750+) in just a few days, leaving me with no stove, cold water, and freezers full of rotten food during prolonged outages. I live in an area with high winds in the winter, so roof-mounted solar was never an option. I opted for a ground mount solar system with battery storage. Tesla Powerwalls require no maintenance, but they are hard to come by. Now, PGE keeps sending me bills, but they all say they owe me money for a change...
 
bullskin said:
Electricity is expensive, and likely to become much more so--especially for anyone on PGE. On top of that, the first thing to fail during a fire when you need to pump water is the electric grid. Fire protection was my foremost concern when deciding upon a back-up energy solution. A 14+ kW generator would completely drain my 250 gallon propane tank (and $750+) in just a few days, leaving me with no stove, cold water, and freezers full of rotten food during prolonged outages. I live in an area with high winds in the winter, so roof-mounted solar was never an option. I opted for a ground mount solar system with battery storage. Tesla Powerwalls require no maintenance, but they are hard to come by. Now, PGE keeps sending me bills, but they all say they owe me money for a change...
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Sounds like something might be wrong with that genset? Any idea why the fuel consumption is so high?

Mine will literally run for way more than a hundred hours on a tank of propane. I even calculated it once to verify the big number. And thats “jetted” for high altitude (9000+).

I fill my 500 gl tank every 2 or 3 years and it runs the stove, dryer, and hot water as well as the generator.
 
We got the panels from Tesla (Solar City at the time) where they installed them free and we buy the electric from them.
some things to consider:
I would not put them on the roof again.
if you are paying more than 10 cents per KWh it probably makes sense also there were almost $70 a month fees on my electric bill that went away with the solar system, now we pay a flat $15 delivery fee, plus electric rates of course.
half of the year we are to the plus on solar, even in New York.
we have had 3 or 4 times when they needed service in 15 years. Not an issue for us as they are not our panels but something to consider.
as stated, a battery bank is expensive, messy, maintenance intensive and short lived. I would go with grid tied solar.
YMMV
Ed
 
Bluehair said:
Sounds like something might be wrong with that genset? Any idea why the fuel consumption is so high?

Mine will literally run for way more than a hundred hours on a tank of propane. I even calculated it once to verify the big number. And thats “jetted” for high altitude (9000+).

I fill my 500 gl tank every 2 or 3 years and it runs the stove, dryer, and hot water as well as the generator.
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He said “hundreds of hours” not a hundred hours
 
Our power here is quite reliable, maybe a half day down a few times a year after big wind or heavy snow. The net-metered buyback rate is much less than the usage rate on our utility so you really can't offset your usage by selling back to the grid. My concern is more to the earthquake or grid issue (attack?) that takes power offline for longer duration.

I also foresee electric vehicles becoming more common and usable over the next decade and there's something kinda cool about having a vehicle literally powered by the sun.

The system the guy that I talked to recommended basically ran the house off solar during the day, any extra was sent to charge the batteries. Once the batteries get topped off, it switches over to sending it back to the grid for net-metering.

In the evening the batteries are drained to a preset amount (about 50%) and then the system would switch back to using shore power. In the event of an outage, the system would run the batteries to 20% and then switch on the generator to run the house and recharge the batteries before turning off to utilize battery power... repeat, as necessary.

He says the new Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are good to 7,000 full cycles (about 19 years) so technology seems to be improving there.

Also, I wouldn't lease the system and I have the land to do them on the ground. Keeping the panels off the roof is a good idea, thank you.

I keep going back to the financial side of things and the part that gives me the most pause is the idea that $30k today put into the S&P500 is likely worth over $100k in the 20 years that it would take me to pay for the system.

I asked a CPA his thoughts and his answer was, "Solar is like giving money to your church. You better believe in it because you're not getting your money back."

You guys have given some good advice and a lot to think about. Thank you.
 
The only way solar has ever worked is with govt subsidies, whether tax breaks or other. We did a big installation at work that was sized to run a dozen big buildings. With the 30% deduction it was still a 15 year roi.
 
JPickett said:
How much that run you?
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The rebates on solar are 22 or 24% right now, I believe, so subtract that from the price of 57K for the rack and 36 Panasonic panels (13.7 kW). That was a bit higher that it could have been because I did not want to see the panels and so set it up a good 200 feet from the house. I did the trenching myself, but it did require larger gauge wire and more of it. Storage costs would depend on your choice of solutions.

In the end, it was safety and convenience rather than cost that drove me to purchase solar. Watching my deer habitat singe in the heat was also a consideration. On the bright side, replacements down the road will be much cheaper since much of the infrastructure is already in place, but the "true" cost is not just the 57K original outlay. Consider what this 57K would be worth twenty years from now if I invested it instead, and that is the actual cost of the system. Bear in mind that electricity bills that averaged $325 will also be probably be closer to $1000 twenty years from now...
 
Bluehair said:
Sounds like something might be wrong with that genset? Any idea why the fuel consumption is so high?

Mine will literally run for way more than a hundred hours on a tank of propane. I even calculated it once to verify the big number. And thats “jetted” for high altitude (9000+).

I fill my 500 gl tank every 2 or 3 years and it runs the stove, dryer, and hot water as well as the generator.
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Generac lists fuel consumption at 3 gallons/hour for 15 kW, 4 gallons for 22 kW. Shutting the system on and off is not an option unless one is home to do so, which means that we would consume the entire tank in as little as four days--and that is assuming that the 250 gallon tank is full to begin with. Perhaps I am missing something, but that is how I decided that the generator would not be our best solution. And my family burns a lot more fuel that you appear to--with gas stove, drier and water heater, we refill our tank about every three months.
 
Bluehair said:
The only way solar has ever worked is with govt subsidies, whether tax breaks or other. We did a big installation at work that was sized to run a dozen big buildings. With the 30% deduction it was still a 15 year roi.
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Isn't that true for every energy source? Fossil fuels do not reflect their true costs, since the environmental and economic costs resulting from pollution are not counted at the point of sale; and neither is the cost of the military in place to protect sea lanes, etc.
 
bullskin said:
Generac lists fuel consumption at 3 gallons/hour for 15 kW, 4 gallons for 22 kW. Shutting the system on and off is not an option unless one is home to do so, which means that we would consume the entire tank in as little as four days--and that is assuming that the 250 gallon tank is full to begin with. Perhaps I am missing something, but that is how I decided that the generator would not be our best solution. And my family burns a lot more fuel that you appear to--with gas stove, drier and water heater, we refill our tank about every three months.
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I’m not arguing. I don’t have my stuff with me but my memory says mine was three or four hunnert when I did the math. But that was years ago and memories fade.

The batteries work*, just a pita like everyone agrees. I’m looking to have to replace mine pretty quick as they are going on their 10’th year. That’s a job I don’t look forward to.:(

*The inside electrician didn’t want anything to do with the solar. Kept mumbling something about dc power and amps.:oops:
 
Bluehair said:
I’m not arguing. I don’t have my stuff with me but my memory says mine was three or four hunnert when I did the math. But that was years ago and memories fade.

The batteries work*, just a pita like everyone agrees. I’m looking to have to replace mine pretty quick as they are going on their 10’th year. That’s a job I don’t look forward to.:(

*The inside electrician didn’t want anything to do with the solar. Kept mumbling something about dc power and amps.:oops:
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I did not think you were (arguing), and the published figures are so ridiculous that I hope you are correct. It is true that these are big generators, but I would think they would idle down when full power is not needed.
 
grizzly said:
Our power here is quite reliable, maybe a half day down a few times a year after big wind or heavy snow. The net-metered buyback rate is much less than the usage rate on our utility so you really can't offset your usage by selling back to the grid. My concern is more to the earthquake or grid issue (attack?) that takes power offline for longer duration.

I also foresee electric vehicles becoming more common and usable over the next decade and there's something kinda cool about having a vehicle literally powered by the sun.

The system the guy that I talked to recommended basically ran the house off solar during the day, any extra was sent to charge the batteries. Once the batteries get topped off, it switches over to sending it back to the grid for net-metering.

In the evening the batteries are drained to a preset amount (about 50%) and then the system would switch back to using shore power. In the event of an outage, the system would run the batteries to 20% and then switch on the generator to run the house and recharge the batteries before turning off to utilize battery power... repeat, as necessary.

He says the new Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are good to 7,000 full cycles (about 19 years) so technology seems to be improving there.

Also, I wouldn't lease the system and I have the land to do them on the ground. Keeping the panels off the roof is a good idea, thank you.

I keep going back to the financial side of things and the part that gives me the most pause is the idea that $30k today put into the S&P500 is likely worth over $100k in the 20 years that it would take me to pay for the system.

I asked a CPA his thoughts and his answer was, "Solar is like giving money to your church. You better believe in it because you're not getting your money back."

You guys have given some good advice and a lot to think about. Thank you.
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I like your CPA
 
Bluehair said:
I spend my summers cutting up logs for the winter.

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Yeah, I guess I'm old school.

My electric bill runs about $30/month in the summer and about $40 in the winter so it's hard to get excited about solar, especially when we sometimes don't see the sun for weeks at a time.

I'm waiting for Amazon to start selling Chinese made DIY Home Nuclear Power Plants. The prototype is about the size of a refrigerator and will run a 5000 sq.ft. home. Free delivery with Amazon Prime.
 
We recently installed a 15 panel 6K system, cost us @22k and after state / fed tax credits it will be a net cost of @15k.
My mindset is different than a few of you have shared, ROI is not my driving force though I did enjoy my $20 electric bill down from @$150. I'm doing this because I see the potential of things really going south and the grid not being down for hours or days but much longer. Any back up generator will require fuel, be it gas or propane thus it would only have a limited window of powering your home . If things really go south gas and propane will not be readily available.
I am told major improvements are just around the corner on battery technology, I've looked at Sonus, Tesla and others. Im told SolarEdge is very close to producing a great home battery backup.
My plan is to purchase one of these as soon as I can. My system will be set up for panels to first charge the battery, then power home needs and last overflow heading back to the grid. I will have the option to power specific breakers within my house that will keep my freezers and refrigerator working . If things go south and the grid goes down for a week or more we will see things in our country that will put all of us on our heels.
 
The way most off-grid systems work, the batteries are always the power feed to the inverters. Panels and generator both feed the battery bank, or there is a way to bypass the batteries with a direct generator feed to the inverters (extreme low voltage situation).

I have no idea how you would “power individual breakers” without establishing whole new circuits.

The charge controller decides what charges the batteries depending on the myriad of parameters you set in the system. Or that’s the way most were a few years back, but I suppose there’s a way to configure it any way you want. The issue is mixing ac and dc power.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is a sun-tracking rack. You can get by with fewer panels, but I don‘t like them because it requires some “slop” for the mercury gizmo to work. I would think it would be vulnerable to wind damage (like my next door neighbors is).

Oh,and make sure you get your generators “personality profile” disc. Hopefully you won’t need it.
 
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Captain_coues said:
Servehim,
You should try Alex Jones’ meals. They come in just about anything you need for long or short system collapses. He is such a good guy.
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Please elaborate Captain, thinking you are trying to lump me into a wacko fringe .....that's not me if thats your intent.
 
Bluehair said:
The way most off-grid systems work, the batteries are always the power feed to the inverters. Panels and generator both feed the battery bank, or there is a way to bypass the batteries with a direct generator feed to the inverters (extreme low voltage situation).

I have no idea how you would “power individual breakers” without establishing whole new circuits.

The charge controller decides what charges the batteries depending on the myriad of parameters you set in the system. Or that’s the way most were a few years back, but I suppose there’s a way to configure it any way you want. The issue is mixing ac and dc power.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is a sun-tracking rack. You can get by with fewer panels, but I don‘t like them because it requires some “slop” for the mercury gizmo to work. I would think it would be vulnerable to wind damage (like my next door neighbors is).

Oh,and make sure you get your generators “personality profile” disc. Hopefully you won’t need it.
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It may require a skilled electrician to create a new circuit layout. Bottom line is i want my solar panels to charge my battery and that battery to power my freezers and refrigerator indefinitely. Lots of venison that needs to be cared for.
 
SS is in a good spot. If the electricity goes out in Alaska in the winter, he just opens up the freezers and it all stays frozen until about May.
 
eelgrass said:
SS is in a good spot. If the electricity goes out in Alaska in the winter, he just opens up the freezers and it all stays frozen until about May.
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So true. Here is my back porch right now. Couple hundred lbs of frozen goodies under that tarp…
A1998839-E1E9-4B4E-A727-A53CB222A4C2.jpeg
 
grizzly said:
Does anybody have solar on their house and have thoughts they're willing to share? @DeerHunter53?

I'm getting ready to build a house and have looked at solar panels with a battery backup. The system the guy recommended was 10kwh with a 15kwh battery backup. He estimated $30k installed and said it would "cover a $150/month electric bill."

That's a 16yr ROI if there's no maintenance. I like the idea but don't see it how it makes sense for me financially ?. What am I missing?

Also, it'll be on propane so I'm going to put a backup generator regardless of whether I do solar or not - so I'll have the emergency side already covered.

Thanks in advance.
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Grizz

I did solar for a couple of reasons one I am retiring and I don't want and can't have $500 a month power bills on a fixed income.
So now with my solar panels my bill is $9.99 a month and because we added extra panels so that I can get my wife an electric car we can cut expenses even further.
The battery back my son has is a Tesla unit and it provides power at night so that he doesn't have to buy power when the pricing is at it's highest.
They do pricing so that if you need to get power from them at say 4-9 pm that is the highest pricing so if you have the battery back up you can draw from them and not buy power from PG&E. And we are on the grid.
Also now on my PG&E bill they are charging a boatload of money for gas so my wife and I bought electric heaters so we keep them in the two rooms we usually hang out in and cut our bill down again.
If you have the sun and can do this it is a game changer for your expenses. In California we are lucky in that we have sun all the time and solar is a great idea.
Now in SLC where the inversion layer is in the winter I am not sure they would pay off as big as they do here.
There is a true up at the end of the year and without the battery back up they usually hit you up for extra money. With the battery my son got a $2500 rebate for the battery back up.
Lots to consider PM me and we can talk a little further.
 
DeerHunter53 said:
Grizz

I did solar for a couple of reasons one I am retiring and I don't want and can't have $500 a month power bills on a fixed income.
So now with my solar panels my bill is $9.99 a month and because we added extra panels so that I can get my wife an electric car we can cut expenses even further.
The battery back my son has is a Tesla unit and it provides power at night so that he doesn't have to buy power when the pricing is at it's highest.
They do pricing so that if you need to get power from them at say 4-9 pm that is the highest pricing so if you have the battery back up you can draw from them and not buy power from PG&E. And we are on the grid.
Also now on my PG&E bill they are charging a boatload of money for gas so my wife and I bought electric heaters so we keep them in the two rooms we usually hang out in and cut our bill down again.
If you have the sun and can do this it is a game changer for your expenses. In California we are lucky in that we have sun all the time and solar is a great idea.
Now in SLC where the inversion layer is in the winter I am not sure they would pay off as big as they do here.
There is a true up at the end of the year and without the battery back up they usually hit you up for extra money. With the battery my son got a $2500 rebate for the battery back up.
Lots to consider PM me and we can talk a little further.
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I got a notice from PG&E this morning. They said my next bill is projected to be $115, the highest in the last year. That's for gas and electricity. It must have been the Christmas lights. I really need to switch to LED Christmas lights.
 
eelgrass said:
I got a notice from PG&E this morning. They said my next bill is projected to be $115, the highest in the last year. That's for gas and electricity. It must have been the Christmas lights. I really need to switch to LED Christmas lights.
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How I wish. We're on managed program where we pay the same each month, which is normally an average of the previous 12 months. During the sumer months, the total used is usually about $350. For years, the monthly average has been above $200, even with a special discount I get, but it recently dropped to $189. I have no idea why because if anything we're using more power. My wife never saw a light that shouldn't shine constantly.
 
I should have mentioned above that the $200 average is for electricity alone. Gas, which powers only the water heater, comes from a different company & runs only about $12-16 monthly.
 
I like solar and I did a battery back up, but if I was going to do a generator, I wouldn't do a battery back up. Power is reliable here and batteries went bad after 7 years. Keeping them charged eats a lot of the power you generate. I moved and I didn't put solar on my new home as it wasn't that big of a savings/benefit.
 
OutdoorWriter said:
I should have mentioned above that the $200 average is for electricity alone. Gas, which powers only the water heater, comes from a different company & runs only about $12-16 monthly.
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Living on the coast of northern CA we have very little temperature change. Even form summer to winter. Nobody has an air conditioner that I know of. We regulate with clothes mostly. A coat from about November to May and no coat from June to October. We use natural gas for forced air heat, clothes dryer, and hot water, and cook stove/oven. I build a fire in the wood stove all winter in the mornings. It's out by about 10am.
 
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eelgrass said:
Living on the coast of northern CA we have very little temperature change. Even form summer to winter. Nobody has an air conditioner that I know of. We regulate with clothes mostly. A coat from about November to May and no coat from June to October. We use natural gas for forced air heat, clothes dryer, and hot water, and cook stove/oven. I build a fire in the wood stove all winter in the mornings. It's out by about 10am.
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Yeah, I know. Unfortunately about 5 months here have constant daily temps over 100. Those are the ones that send the electric bill to the top. Right now, we're in the pleasurable time with 50-70s daily.

And I screwed up when I said the monthly average dropped to $189. That actually was the balance payment left for the year after paying $226 each month. So my payment this month is back over $200.

This is the recap from my last bill:

1640721026455.png


This is the one for July:

1640721170088.png
 
OutdoorWriter said:
Yeah, I know. Unfortunately about 5 months here have constant daily temps over 100. Those are the ones that send the electric bill to the top. Right now, we're in the pleasurable time with 50-70s daily.

And I screwed up when I said the monthly average dropped to $189. That actually was the balance payment left for the year after paying $226 each month. So my payment this month is back over $200.

This is the recap from my last bill:

View attachment 63543

This is the one for July:

View attachment 63544
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I can see where averaging it out would be a lot smoother over a year's time.

The power companies, at least here, are responsible for not only generating power, but also for delivering it, to some degree. If enough people get away from all of that with their own solar power, doesn't that take needed income away from the power companies? If they can't afford to maintain the hydroelectric plants, wind farms, and all the power poles and lines, etc. I wonder what would happen then? It seems the rates would skyrocket to keep the service viable. I honestly don't know.
 
eelgrass said:
I can see where averaging it out would be a lot smoother over a year's time.

The power companies, at least here, are responsible for not only generating power, but also for delivering it, to some degree. If enough people get away from all of that with their own solar power, doesn't that take needed income away from the power companies? If they can't afford to maintain the hydroelectric plants, wind farms, and all the power poles and lines, etc. I wonder what would happen then? It seems the rates would skyrocket to keep the service viable. I honestly don't know.
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The averaging certainly makes budgeting the monthly expenses easier.

Our power company is Salt River Project. They own all of the power generating dams on the four SRP lakes.

Our gas is from AZ Public Service, but it also is the major electric generating entity with the Palo Verde nuke plant that's about 40 miles west of me. It not only creates power for AZ but sends a lot of it to CA, TX & NM.

Ironically, SRP is doing maintenance here as we speak. I have a pole in my backyard so they came to the door early today to ask for access so they could do their work.
 
OutdoorWriter said:
The averaging certainly makes budgeting the monthly expenses easier.

Our power company is Salt River Project. They own all of the power generating dams on the four SRP lakes.

Our gas is from AZ Public Service, but it also is the major electric generating entity with the Palo Verde nuke plant that's about 40 miles west of me. It not only creates power for AZ but sends a lot of it to CA, TX & NM.

Ironically, SRP is doing maintenance here as we speak. I have a pole in my backyard so they came to the door early today to ask for access so they could do their work.
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I have about 600' of road frontage and last summer PG&E had me do a walk with a supervisor. He showed me the trees he wanted to take out and I had to sign a paper giving them permission. I told him they could cut anything they thought was necessary. I asked if he could leave the logs and chip the limbs? That's what they did. Next year's firewood.
 
eelgrass said:
I have about 600' of road frontage and last summer PG&E had me do a walk with a supervisor. He showed me the trees he wanted to take out and I had to sign a paper giving them permission. I told him they could cut anything they thought was necessary. I asked if he could leave the logs and chip the limbs? That's what they did. Next year's firewood.
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Yup. We have a good-sized Chinese elm that grows up under the power lines. About every two years, SRP knocks so they can trim it back.

I can't get it to link, but Bill Barnum just posted a video on FB. He built a 'cabin' at the ranch at Redwood Creek & there are about 6 inches of snow. The video shows a huge flock of turkeys in front of the house.
 
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Eel I do not think that PGE owns that many electric producing hydro plants anymore. There is 4 in Yuba County and all are now own by the Yuba County water district.
The main ones were Bullard's bar dam and Colgate powerhouse. When first built, PGE had control of them for the first 25 years. Then ownership passed to the county water district based on a contract between PGE and the water district. The water district maintains the facilities and sell the electric power to PGE and their grid line. I guess you can say that PGE is the middle man now. The water district makes a profit, and PGE makes a profit over what they pay and us consumers take it in the shorts on our monthly bill.
If you have solar and generate more power then you use, PGE is required to pay you or give you a credit for the extra power. There is now talk that PGE is trying to get our "paid for" gov. Newsome to stop that benefit so they can get the extra power generated by home solar for free. Of course PGE will give our idiot Gov. mucho bucks for his campaign expenses.
RELH
 

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