Stuff like this makes me sick...

They weren't one shot instant kills, but I'm fine with both videos. I've seen a lot worse.

Eel
 
I just hate watching a wounded sheep sitting broadside take a bullet straight to the guts or a well over 500 yard shot being taken on a elk with only its a$$ end exposed. You can make the argument that the bull was already hit and the guy was just trying to pump lead into him. But FAR from clean ethical kills in my opinion. Also, made me wonder about what kind of bullet was being used? Both first shots on both animals appeared to be good ones... maybe im getting soft but just my .02
Coloradoboy
 
LAST EDITED ON May-06-11 AT 11:19PM (MST)[p]I'll bet the sheep video is not long range. compare the two vids on how long the bullet takes to reach its target and its alot closer! so I guess your saying it makes you sick if it takes more then one bullet to down the animal, no matter how far or close the shot.
 
No the sheep clearly wasn't a 'long range shot' but the bull was. Im not against long range hunting. I would be hypocritical of me to say Im against when I've killed multiple animals now over 500 yards but none of them required more than 2 rounds max. Im just a firm believer in quick clean kills and hate watching a wounded animal take a shot to the guts or the hind quaters..
 
Nobody wants to see that and in a perfect world they would go down with the first shot every time and stay down. But, sometimes bad shots happen no matter the range.
Both first shots looked great but high shoulder shots can be scary because they can recover like both these animals did.
 
Eel +1



horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-11 AT 00:42AM (MST)[p]

We all strive as hunters to make that one, perfect anchoring shot, but in the real world that sometimes does not happen. Apparently this is what happened in the 2 videos with multiple shots needed to anchor each animal. There is nothing IMO that is unethical in either video, but simply the unvarnished realities of hunting.


Eldorado
 
Nah, it's too nice a day to get into hipocracy arguements........

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
I have nothing against hunters taking a long shot, as long as they have practiced and know the ballistics of their rifle/load. Now hunters who go out with the intent that they are going to take the first shot regardless of distance and don't even attempt to close the distance, that rankles me a bit.
 
I have witnessed horrible kills at 100 yards,I wouldnt be badmouthing long range shooters,we put in more practice time than any 99% of your "ethical" short range big mouths.
 
If your geared and have the ability to shoot long range there is nothing wrong with it. when i say geared I mean match grade rifle, ballistic matched scope and a custom load. but the guys that have a stock store bought gun with a nikon and some federals... keep er under 400 lol

the only elk I have killed with a rifle was 781 yards. one shot fired. Gunwerks did a good job :)
 
Maybe you should read my post again. Where did I badmouth long range shooters in general. I was directing my criticism at "shooters" not hunters. And how do you know that short range hunters don't practice? If you were not addressing my post then I apologize.
 
We're going to have to change what we call our favorite past time. Hey Jim you going shooting this weekend?

Technology will change how long our seasons are, and how our Bios's structure our seasons. It's getting to easy.




I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-11 AT 03:34PM (MST)[p]Its really getting easy for the guides. Buy one or two custom rifles for their clients to shoot. Then, just get them within 700-800 yards and their job is done.

I'm starting to question just how much "practice" some of the people shooting long range really have???

From the looks of those videos, I'd dare say both of those guys probably only fired a few, if any, rounds before they shot at big-game with a borrowed rifle.

Sad.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-07-11
>AT 03:34?PM (MST)
>
>Its really getting easy for the
>guides. Buy one or two
>custom rifles for their clients
>to shoot. Then, just get
>them within 700-800 yards and
>their job is done.
>
>I'm starting to question just how
>much "practice" some of the
>people shooting long range really
>have???
>
>From the looks of those videos,
>I'd dare say both of
>those guys probably only fired
>a few, if any, rounds
>before they shot at big-game
>with a borrowed rifle.
>
>Sad.


Buzz,
You made the point that I was just about to get at but you beat me too it. Seems like everyone is trying to emulate John Porter and the rest of the Best of the West guys by providing their clients with long range rifles and have them taking shots well beyond their typical 'comfortable range.' And I would agree with you in the fact both of those guys fired no more than 10 rounds out of that rifle before taking it out to shoot at a living breathing animal.
 
Ya TOPGUN!

Cowboy-Up!:D

What'ya gonna do?

Write us an MM Citation?

For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
:p
 
Funny that this topic came up at this time. Just saw an episode of "Best of the West", the hunter chose John Porter's rifle over his own after hearing shots could be 400 yards or more and he wasn't comfortable at that distance with his own. Obviously this "long range hunter didn't practice at those ranges and was not familiar with the equipment. Porter ranged the Ram and then adjusted the scope for the hunter.............er shooter, he then pulled the trigger which culminated a successful hunt............I mean kill. Hope the "hunter" is 100% satisfied.

Now again, I'm not saying all long range hunters are like that, but not all of us who disagree with the long range practice are fat slob road hunters either.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-11 AT 06:55PM (MST)[p]You guys are going to sit here and B and moan about them not shooting before the hunt? Were you there to see if they did or did not? Seems to me both guys made great first shots and it just so happened that both animals got back to their feet and they had to shoot them again. Did they need to shoot them again??? who knows, they probably could have let them stand there and both would have tipped over. but they wanted to put another one in them for insurance and for that I give them props.
Animals are not Pu.ssy's! and they will do whatever they can to survive. Just because they got back to their feet doesnt mean they were not dead on their feet. If you have never made a bad shot, or had a animal get back up after being shot, you either have not hunted very much, just give it time, it will happen to you!
I actually think its a good idea for the guides to have a rifle that is dead nuts. I guide every year and I give the hunters a choice if they want to use my rifle, some do some dont. For you non guides, you would be amazed at how many hunters get to camp and have no clue if the rifle is on. Or, they feel because they can hit a paper plate at 100 yards they are good to go. Well, when they use my rifle I know that if they can hold steady they will make the shot! Does that mean Im going to let them shoot 800 yards? Ah NO!
 
>Maybe you should read my post
>again. Where did I badmouth
>long range shooters in general.
>I was directing my criticism
>at "shooters" not hunters. And
>how do you know that
>short range hunters don't practice?
>If you were not addressing
>my post then I apologize.
>


Well you called it the "horros (SP) of long range hunting" what exactly does that infer if not you feeling that long range hunting is horrible?
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-11 AT 07:31PM (MST)[p]>Maybe you should read my post
>again. Where did I badmouth
>long range shooters in general.
>I was directing my criticism
>at "shooters" not hunters. And
>how do you know that
>short range hunters don't practice?
>If you were not addressing
>my post then I apologize.
>


Well you called it the "horros (SP) of long range hunting" what exactly does that infer if not you feeling that long range hunting is horrible? Maybe you should spell it correctly and phrase it differently if that's not the point of your post?There are plenty of people who have no place taking a long shot (over 400 yards),but just as many if not more that shouldn't be taking shots at any range.
 
Like I said, re-read my post. "The horros of long range hunting" is from the OP's post not mine.
 
GRUESOME SHOTS!

I started a Thread several years back here on MM called "GRUESOME SHOTS!"

Not sure you could'of handled it ColoradoBoy?

You Hunt long enough in the Woods you're gonna see stuff you don't like!

Here's a Short Story just for you!

In my younger day I raised Hell with lots of Predators!

Me & My Friend were out Calling Coyotes!

I notice a Dog coming in & I'm ready!

Just as I get the Trigger half back I see the side of the Coyote turn Red & i hear my friends shot!

Ya,He got back on it a bit!

Opened the Broadside of that ole Dog up Perty Good!

We started following the Blood & Guts!(Literally!)

Walked up on some Intestine that got caught on a Sage brush!

You could tell the Coyote Chewed it off & was on his way again!

We found a couple of these before we caught back up with the Coyote to finish him off!

Wasn't a Perty Sight!

Took a while to catch back up to him!

I don't like seeing any animal suffer,we finished him off as quick as we could but it took a while,what else could we do?

Not all shots are Perfect!

I do suggest to take your time when you can & make the first shot count because way too often I've seen it get way too Western after the first shot!

For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
:p
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

Geez Bess!.....Are we seeing the softer side of you?

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the "ethics" police, may I say....

"A gutshot predator is a thing of beauty!"....

especially when the rest of the predator world turns on it.

The ones that survive with only 3 legs, seldonm eat any more calves or fawns.

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

maybe I missed something...were the sheep long range? Looked like under 300 yards to me....


horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

Well nickman!

Just trying to SPLAIN stuff to coloradoboy!

It's not always a Perfect shooting/hunting World!

In the 2 Video's posted,both animals were recovered,coulda turned out worse!

I think I'll stick with using my own Guns though!

For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
:p
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

Well...at least they were out of the vehicle. I don't care for the long range stuff, only because it's just one more tool shrinking the opprotunity for all of us. As far as the killing its self goes, Iv'e never seen a snuff flick that looked attractive. The harvest of any animal just does not film well.
I think maybe the older we get the more this stuff bothers us. I guess we tend to grow a heart with age. I don't know...
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

I would have to watch the episode again to be sure, but I think the first guy's shot was over 400. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though. The hunter chose to use Porter's rifle so he could shoot at a greater distance than he was comfortable shooting his own.

What ever happened to knowing your limitations and then stalking to get inside of your comfortable distance.
 
>you don't get out much do
>you Coloradoboy??
>
>JB
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg



Nope sure don't. I just like to sit on my couch eat granola and drink wheat grass juice. Mountains and wild animals scare me too much. I opened a can of worms here.. my bad. I guess im just an advocate for quick clean kills and good marksmanship. I feel that the animals I harvest deserve more than a bullet in the ass an another in the guts, way I've be raised and brought up to kill an animal. Most seem to disagree and see it as a dead animal is a dead animal no matter the means it took to bring it down which is understandable when a pay check and a tip is dependent on that animal taking a dirt nap.
Coloradoboy
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

Nails said, "The hunter chose to use Porter's rifle so he could shoot at a greater distance than he was comfortable shooting his own."

I don't have sound on my puter but i did watch the flick and from the comments here have determined that, i don't have a problem with any of it. Maybe i'd have done something here or there different but i can't expect everyone out there to do as i do.

As far as the loaned gun, often times i've taken out guys on our place and helped them to their first buck. I've also taken guys that didn't have all that great of equipment. My rifles have taken many bucks that didn't have me as the shooter. Whatever works and one thing i knew for sure, my rifle works!

I really like the vids where you can follow the bullet's path. Cool times 10!!

Joey
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!


Let's hash this one out all over again shall we?

Who knew it would come crashing down?? Sometimes we should learn to edit more of the clips than we do or pick different shots. It's hard to have a long range hunting show if you sneak up on the game. Not bad mouthing long or short range shooting. Bad shots happen to everyone I guess.
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

I hear ya Ziggy, that one there is not a long range/short range issue. The shot itself was well executed, the choice to take it is what I question. Sometimes animals fall a long ways when you wouldn't think they would, but that one was a no brainer. What would have happened if the ram would have been busted all to hell and no longer was a legal ram? Or are the laws in Wyoming such that if you can find the parts of horn it doesn't matter?
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

What? You dont shoot sheep in steep country?

If a person waited for a ram to be in a "perfect" spot where it wouldnt roll, in like say...the Chugach Mtns. you'd never kill one.

My ram, along with 2 others were bedded just left of the small snow drift in the right center of this photo...on the ridgeline. They eventually got up after a 6 hour wait and they moved toward us into the saddle about 250 yards from where I snapped this picture.

dallsheepscenery.jpg


I made a good shot, dropping the ram just off the ridgeline. I just about got to him, before he relaxed and started to roll.

I watched it roll until it was out of sight (probably 400 yards), then continued to listen to it roll for another 30 seconds after that.

It tumbled close to 2000' vertical before hanging up in some loose shale by its horns.

This was how it was "laying" when we found it 45 minutes later:

IMG.jpg


There wasnt even a chip out of the horns, and I was able to save the cape no problem. The meat was fine as well.

Thats just sheep hunting and there isnt much you can do about it. Flat spots are few and far between in the Chugach:

Dallsheep.tif.jpg


dallpack.JPG
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

LAST EDITED ON May-10-11 AT 09:08AM (MST)[p]>What? You dont shoot sheep in
>steep country?
>
>If a person waited for a
>ram to be in a
>"perfect" spot where it wouldnt
>roll, in like say...the Chugach
>Mtns. you'd never kill one.
>
>
>My ram, along with 2 others
>were bedded just left of
>the small snow drift in
>the right center of this
>photo...on the ridgeline. They eventually
>got up after a 6
>hour wait and they moved
>toward us into the saddle
>about 250 yards from where
>I snapped this picture.
>
>I made a good shot, dropping
>the ram just off the
>ridgeline. I just about got
>to him, before he relaxed
>and started to roll.
>
>I watched it roll until it
>was out of sight (probably
>400 yards), then continued to
>listen to it roll for
>another 30 seconds after that.
>
>
>It tumbled close to 2000' vertical
>before hanging up in some
>loose shale by its horns.
>
>
>This was how it was "laying"
>when we found it 45
>minutes later:
>
>
>There wasnt even a chip out
>of the horns, and I
>was able to save the
>cape no problem. The meat
>was fine as well.
>
>Thats just sheep hunting and there
>isnt much you can do
>about it. Flat spots are
>few and far between in
>the Chugach:
>


I know of a goat hunt and sheep hunt where the hunters shot their prizes and literally couldn't get to the animal because of the terrain. They were cited and ended up with nothing and told by the law that they shouldn't have made the shot. $hitty wardens??? If you made it down 2000' in elevation in 45 minutes then I would say you are amazing. It's a gamble I know but I'm wondering how many animals get wasted because the hunter didn't like what damage was done to the animal and/or shot another because they couldn't get to the first one. I would be pissed if I walked up to a once in a lifetime animal that was heavily damaged because the guide told me to shoot it. I would know better but some don't. It's a touchy subject but always fun to hash out again and again and again.
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

I'll bow-out of this thread with only one comment: some guys have not been around very many successful hunts! Hit shappens!

I must say that I wasn't repulsed by the shooting. I have seen some that make me sick and it was obvious the hunter wasn't a practiced and proficient shooter.

Zeke
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

Not perfect shots but that's part of hunting. I don't see anything horribly wrong with these shots. Maybe get a little closer to the elk?? That ram was dead after the first shot. I would guess he was a little excited with the third shot after missing the second shot??


Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

>This really shows some of the horros of long range hunting and >gave me a sick feeling just watching.. what do you guys think?

I think that is one dead elk!
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-07-11
>AT 03:34?PM (MST)
>
>Its really getting easy for the
>guides. Buy one or two
>custom rifles for their clients
>to shoot. Then, just get
>them within 700-800 yards and
>their job is done.
>
>I'm starting to question just how
>much "practice" some of the
>people shooting long range really
>have???
>
>From the looks of those videos,
>I'd dare say both of
>those guys probably only fired
>a few, if any, rounds
>before they shot at big-game
>with a borrowed rifle.
>
>Sad.


+1
 
RE: GRUESOME SHOTS!

You have to wonder why they post that? If it was one shot great no problem but taking mutiple shots I would not be so proud that I would want to post it for the rest of the world to see. At least he did shoot it again vs letting it stand there until it died.


If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
 
>Like I said, re-read my post.
>"The horros of long range
>hunting" is from the OP's
>post not mine.

Read my post again I wasnt even talking to you.
 
As far as long range hunting goes, I'd say these are both standard situations. Shows that if you can get within 800 yards you can have your guide set the scope at the correct position and get an elk on the last day. This may not be true, but both videos appeared to be using the same rifle, so these hunters did not even have to dial it in. I watched an Antelope hunt on TV where they couldn't get the job done with a bow in a waterhole blind, so the last day they took out the camp's long range rifle and filled their tags. Both kills took 3 or 4 shots before they even hit the antelope. Then they bragged about the great shooting! Retarded. If you are someone who takes the time to do all the fine tuning and research (assuming it takes much, I bet quality factory loads would work fine)and spends a lot of time at the range, then there might be some skill associated with long range shooting. For the guy who's guide say "he's 800 yards! Hold the cross-hairs right behind the shoulders" thanks for showing us how easy it is. Poor animals don't stand a chance.
 
I hate to say it but this kind of kill is probably more the norm then the 1 shot kill we'd all like to see. I didn't find the videos too offensive but then again I've seen a whole lot worse. Have you ever seen a pack of coyotes take down a deer before? Now that's a sucky way for an animal to die to be basically eating alive.

As far as the long range stuff I wish I had one of those long range riles for all my clients to use back when I was guiding. It would have made my job so much easier! Nothing sucks more then having a client showing up with his 06 and his cheapo box of ammo that he hasn't shot in a year.

One thing is for certain hunters are becoming more and more proficient killing machines and soon or later something has got to give.
 
No offense man but you need to grow up! $hit happens sometimes when hunting. I had a cow elk that decided to go down thorugh some shelves and a crappy canyon after being hit throught the lungs. She was with the herd and they just kept her going. As we followed the swath to recover her my little bro. found her front hoof that she tore off as she stumbled over the ledges.

We recovered her fine after an easy 30 yard finishing shot. But I can only imagine how bad ripping your hoof off would hurt. As I said $hit happens sometimes.
 
How does a hoof rip off? did you take a picture be chance? That would be sad to see, but crap happens in the mnts.








It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
Yep! I hit a bull thru both eyes and a week later we finally found him again, being led around by a wolf who obviously had some guide dog training.

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
I feel at tad let down by the OP. I was preparing myself to see a critter die really hard....Instead I watched two pretty clean kills. Can't imagine anyone who's "been around" haveing anything negative to say...........

I've witnessed and participated in far worse unfortunately.

I'm no fan of this "long range" craze but It's not for me to slam guys for doing it......





the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
Coloradoboy!

I'm perty sure you shoot fairly long range distances on Big Game Animals?

You keep it up & You're gonna experience something similar!

I Hope You don't but sooner or later in the Heat of trying to put an Animal on the Ground at a fairly long shot it's bound to happen!

Might take a couple extra rounds but it's OK!

As I've already stated,I'll stick with a Gun I know fairly well,My Own!

But that's just me!

I highly recommend you not watching stinky's Africa footage when He gets back!

I'm a thinking there's gonna be some Animals not understanding stinky's way of shootin!:D

(((RAZZIN Ya stinkbug!)))



For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
:p
 
>Like I said, re-read my post.
>"The horros of long range
>hunting" is from the OP's
>post not mine.

Read my post again I wasnt even talking to you.

Take it easy NONYAMT. I made a pretty non-inflammatory post (#9) and you replied to it (#11). I assumed you were replying to me but wasn't 100% sure, so I posted this (#14).

Maybe you should read my post again. Where did I badmouth long range shooters in general. I was directing my criticism at "shooters" not hunters. And how do you know that short range hunters don't practice? If you were not addressing my post then I apologize.

No where in this thread did I condemn long range hunting. If guys put in the time and know their equipment and conditions, if they choose to take the shot then have at it. I was mostly critical of guys who choose to use a rifle that they had never used before, you may not agree with me but that is how I feel.

I know my rifle and load and practice a lot with it out to 400. Beyond 450 I would try to close the distance or wait for another opportunity.
 

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