Surrendering the floor...your Honor.

2lumpy

Long Time Member
Messages
8,011
Every year after the Expo we go through this period of SFW bashing and internet quarreling. True to form, we've had a go at again this year. We've discussed the various point of concerns to the degree that we are starting repeating the same arguments we made last year and even last week. We've actually been quite respectful this year, for the most part. I've appreciated that. Thank you.

I'd like to conclude my remarks on the subject for now, with a final comment.

Someone once said, SFW leadership," have hoodwinked your Legislature" , "has hoodwinked you and your Dad, Birdman, and others into doing all the great work you do", "see naive people such as yourself doing all the great work", and, over the course of many months made and/or inferred that the people of Utah are of lesser intelligence, easily fooled, etc. etc., suggesting that Utah's Attorney's General, State Tax Commission, our recent Governors, are also either part of the grand scheme or lack the intelligence to comprehend what SFW leadership is doing, right under their scrutinizing eyes.

Lord knows these Utah political leaders have been notified ad nauseam by the press, hostile sportsmen, anti-hunters, non-consumptive Federal land users, over SFW behaviors and methods It's not that Utah's State wide decision makers have not heard from those distrusting members of our communities. Many of our best businessmen have donated millions to SFW. My hell, the son, of one of the most respected and wealthiest business that has ever been grown in Utah and helped the entire world look for a cure for cancer, was the Governor of Utah that started the Expo and the 200 incentive tags to draw people into Salt Lake City. Other seemingly, intelligent business men and women, not just Utah, but throughout the country have donated to SFW. I agree with the assessment that has been made, I'm far from the brightest sportsman in the country, however two universities have awarded me a minor in zoology, a minor in botany, a Bachelors Degree in Business Administration, and a Masters Degree in Instructional Technology, somebody must think I have some cognitive skills. I just can not imagine that we in Utah are all so stupid, so naive, or so easily hoodwinked as some have claimed and so regularly repeat. I just get a syntax error when I try to get my head around that.

So, I'm going to bow out for a while on the SFW discussions and leave you to it. For those that wish to know my opinions, I'd refer you to the MM archives, I've written volumes there, for anyone that cares to read why. Once again, I would invite all sportsmen to going with us in or quest to preserve and propagate the great outdoor hunting and fishing lifestyle.

Birdman, get that boat serviced, with this weather turning ice into water your going to start teaching me how to hook'em and cook'em on the Strawberry!

DC
 
I realize our state legislature isn't easily "hoodwinked". About a year ago most our legislature was standing by John Swallow.
 
Lumpy.

At my buisness they have spent millions on a program to try to help their people adapt to change quicker and with less drama and production loss. SFW came in the early 90's when the internet, wildlife forums, and the whole information age were just in its infancy. Last I checked its 2014. There is zero need for the tags(in my opinion). But IF there is, are we really to believe that they couldn't be auctioned off on the DWRs own auction site? If wildlife needs to be sold to the highest bidder it can be done WITHOUT the skim by SFW. The world has changed since the 90's, SFW costs to much to auction tags.

Second. I was contacted by a member of SFW here in Davis county. I believe he goes by JMO in here. Nice guy, we exchanged ideas back and forth. He on several occasions pointed out that THE DON doesn't speak for SFW, unless he is contracted to do so. Do you think ANYONE on the capital knows this? Do you think when THE DON is up pushing his PERSONAL agenda he opens with "I am not speaking for anyone other than myself"? The legislature that your SOOOO fond of doesn't know that they are being lobbied by ONE MAN, not SFW(which is a minority anyway).

Lastly. My state legislature, led by a governor is so bright they protect my kids weekly from the rages of alcoholism by making restaraunts put up a wall to hide the bottles. They protect them from STD's(we are the leaders in most) by not teaching sex ed. They protected me from GSL by buying those pumps that are so well used. They protect me from giving in the the DEVIL and being able to buy a car on Sunday. These GENIUSES, that your soooo fond of decide wildlife policy by listening to THE DON either represent himself, or a small minority(SFW). They decide social policy by listening to some old hag Gail Ruzeka(I butchered her name). They decide liquor policy by listening to the apostles. Utah is a beautiful state, is full of good people, but we are hemmoraging moose, have lost our deer herd, and have wolves migrating in. If the legislature is as up to date on wildlife as you would like to sell, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

Lumpy I will throw you a bone though. I do not like SFW, not some of their members, its not personal against people like yourself. I DID NOT ATTEND THE EXPO. DID NOT PLAY THE LOTTO. HAVE NOT FOR YEARS IF NOT A DECADE. There a a bunch of dudes in here whinning about SFW, and the commercialization of hunting who were dropping C notes to play the lotto. These guys have ZERO room to talk. These guys are the dudes who drink your beer on Saturday, then preach to you on Sunday. These are the guys that find gambling immoral, but need to ride to Malad on Tuesdays. These are the guys that have built Wendover and Mesquite. These are the guys who have made Utah #1 in internet porn and anti-depresents. IF YOU ARE PLAYING THE SFW LOTTO, YOU CAN'T BE ANTI SFW. You ARE THE PROBLEM!! SFW GETS POWER FROM YOU!! STOP FEEDING THE BEAST!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
hoss,
Sounds like you have issue with a whole host of things happening in Utah. Have you ever thought of moving? Or do you think you might find a whole host of issues to be pissed off in a new state also?

I find many things I disagree with. One thing Lumpy taught me long ago. Dive in and make a difference yourself. Don't just whine and complain. The interweb is completely filled with individuals that have found a perfect place to only whine and complain. It has connected many individuals with a common knack of doing complaining instead of diving in and making a true difference. I'm not saying you are one of these individuals because I don't personally know you. But I do feel this translates into many polls you see not just polls regarding SFW or even wildlife in general. It's just across the board. Many many individuals have become conditioned to believe pissing and moaning on the interweb equates to diving in and making a difference. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. But for me personally I think actions and results speak louder that interweb polls and group hating feeding off of each other.
 
elkun,

Tombstone is one of my all time favorite movies!

It's amuses every time I see a modern day Ike Clanton pop up on the forums. Wear that red scarf proud, there's other Cowboys here to back you. Lol
 
I agree. Make a true difference and join the RMEF and get involved in helping preserve our future generations ability to enjoy the outdoors as we have.
Best,
Jerry
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-14 AT 07:11AM (MST)[p]>Dive in and make a
>difference yourself. Don't just
>whine and complain. The
>interweb is completely filled with
>individuals that have found a
>perfect place to only whine
>and complain. It has connected
>many individuals with a common
>knack of doing complaining instead
>of diving in and making
>a true difference. I'm
>not saying you are one
>of these individuals because I
>don't personally know you.
>But I do feel this
>translates into many polls you
>see not just polls regarding
>SFW or even wildlife in
>general. It's just across
>the board. Many many
>individuals have become conditioned to
>believe pissing and moaning on
>the interweb equates to diving
>in and making a difference.
> Maybe it does and
>maybe it doesn't. But
>for me personally I think
>actions and results speak louder
>that interweb polls and group
>hating feeding off of each
>other.

I used to be a major forum contributor until one day in 2011 when after a week of debating someone here in MM I learned he was a full time employee of SFW. That spurred me to shift gears. Instead, I directed my energy towards contacting legislators on various issues, culminating in Arizona 2012 when HB 2072 threatened to steal 350 of the most valuable big game tags in the US. I directed my energy to assembling a passionate plea to KTVK for media coverage as AZSFW was ramrodding their wealth tag bill via emergency measure down our throats. KTVK's Crystal Cruz asked me for a TV interview at AZF&G headquarters at noon the next day. Overnight I hooked up with MMer Alan Taylor to make it happen. 3 TV segments aired the next day on the evening news. One included Cruz confronting the corrupt, bribed legislator in his own office, during which he withdrew sponsorship of his own bill! AZSFW knew the gig was up, and pulled their high dollar lobbyist from the statehouse the following day. The bill was dead & buried. AZF&G subsequently started a constituent's group to prevent other future fiascos.

The message is.........Yes, one person can make a difference, even if you live on the other side of the country. In my case, Illinois. Kind of ironic as IL is well known for political corruption. :) Think of it as my little gift to the scam capital of the US via AZ. And don't try to play the "every org is separate BS". Everyone knows that is simply a paper veil covering an endless list of scams. Half the campaign contributers on the list (thanks, Randy Newburg) I gave to Cruz were from UT.

That being said, I am glad so many continue the DP debate, as it serves to educate ignorant newbies. Heck if it weren't for these forums, I never would have found out about HB2072, and never would have contacted KTVK. However, it's definitely more productive and rewarding to take some simple actions to contribute, like contacting legislators & media when you see white collar crime in action.

PS - Hell no, I never set foot in the Expo, nor bought any of the stolen tag raffle tickets.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
Keep this stuff at the top of the list on every threa that matters, as it's the only way for some to have a chance to hear about the scam being purported to be good for all like in Utah. I would venture to say there are very few avenues other than this site to find out what's really going on with these supposedly hunter friendly organizations, ya right , you mean dollar friendly organizations. There's a big diff between the 2. Keep up all the negativity please, if it goes away the tag mongers will start to creep again.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-14 AT 08:19AM (MST)[p]Wow, that was a great Zim, everyone should read that, and thank you.

And everyone should be on the lookout, the internet is an amazing tool to see what's going on in the wide world of good old boy politics.
 
Thank God we've got Zim looking out for us poor hunters in the west.

5187superman-funny-picture-38255.jpg


Got a new Asian girlfriend to pack your tree stands for ya yet Zim.
 
>Thank God we've got Zim looking
>out for us poor hunters
>in the west.
>
>
5187superman-funny-picture-38255.jpg

>
>Got a new Asian girlfriend to
>pack your tree stands for
>ya yet Zim.


***Crawl back in your hole if you have nothing better to say about a guy who helped save an entire state from an outfit like SFW!!!
 
Besides Ike Clanton, I use to love the Johnny Carson show. Remember when Johnny use to say something funny or ask a rhetorical question that he would answer himself and they'd flash the camera over to Ed McMahon. He'd say "Yes Johnny you are correct" with a stupid look on his face. That always amused me.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-14 AT 09:40AM (MST)[p]Ya it's kinda like when a member of an organization has no clue where the dollars go but defends it with the same look on there face....
 
Kinda reminds me of Forrest Gump...One day I just started running...and running and running.
151sfw.jpg


Just a small sample by those who were blind followers like you who finally wised up and smelled the coffee. I applaud that they had the guts to do what men of true grit will do. SFW is a scam.

Gotta be fairly ignorant to dispute this from your fellow SFW saints.
Best,
Jerry
 
>Thank God we've got Zim looking
>out for us poor hunters
>in the west.

Apexmtnman, I didn't post this to brag........simply to encourage others that they can make a difference. At minimum, they should keep up with pending legislation and take the time spent posting on forums to writing legislators.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-14 AT 12:39PM (MST)[p]Zim, have you or Flopgun ever met a member of Utah SFW? Have either of you seen any of the projects that they have completed in our state? The guys on the ground, the volunteers helping SFW do projects to help out the game herds in Utah are by and large very good guys with a vision of doing something good for the future of wildlife in our state. I don't support SFW because of the no transparency and the no accountability for all the money raised at the Expo (and The Don's outrageos salary) and if they were to fix those issues I would join in a heartbeat. Zim I know your motivation is the loss of nonresident tags that are used in the expo, for the life of me I can't figure out Flopgun's motivation. He has stated many times that he will never hunt in Utah.

PS; By the way nice looking Fiance there Zim but I wonder just how good she'll be at packing your hunting gear as small as she is.LOL
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-14 AT 09:36PM (MST)[p]>Zim, have you or Flopgun ever
>met a member of Utah
>SFW?
Yes, and I have family in SLC.

>Have either of you
>seen any of the projects
>that they have completed in
>our state?
Yes

>The guys on
>the ground, the volunteers helping
>SFW do projects to help
>out the game herds in
>Utah are by and large
>very good guys with a
>vision of doing something good
>for the future of wildlife
>in our state.
I know.

>I don't
>support SFW because of the
>no transparency and the no
>accountability for all the money
>raised at the Expo (and
>The Don's outrageos salary) and
>if they were to fix
>those issues I would join
>in a heartbeat.
So would I............but they won't.

>Zim
>I know your motivation is
>the loss of nonresident tags
>that are used in the
>expo,
My motivation is a lot more than that. It's my belief in the real North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. I'm not interested in compromising it, even 1%. Utah is not the only place where exploitation is occurring. Also, I disdain white collar criminals. Had a belly full of those charlatans in my lifetime, many hiding behind the cloak of Mormon & Christian churches, or whatever else they can utilize. They turn my stomach.

>for the life of
>me I can't figure out
>Flopgun's motivation. He has stated
>many times that he will
>never hunt in Utah.
I don't know. Never met him. You'd need to ask him.

>PS; By the way nice looking
>Fiance there Zim but I
>wonder just how good she'll
>be at packing your hunting
>gear as small as she
>is.LOL
My aging back is shifting my dependency towards horses/drop camps. Fang has other great skills. She does love the outdoors, and we are going to Yellowstone this summer.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
"the real North American Model of Wildlife Conservation"

Zim enlighten me with your version of the "model"

something smells FISHY to me
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-14 AT 02:26PM (MST)[p]> "the real North American Model
>of Wildlife Conservation"
>
>Zim enlighten me with your version
>of the "model"

Very simply the old school version Teddy Roosevelt defined. Not the new world version that compromises it with wealth tags and makes excuses and justifications that it's "all good". That it somehow is OK to have "some" wealth tags and it still qualifies as meeting NAMWC principals. To that I call BS.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 

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