Teach me evolution...

L

luckless

Active Member
Messages
453
Dude, Piper and anyone else, take this opportunity to explain evolution to my feeble mind. I know, it sounds smug, but work with me. I'm not going to lobby for Creationism here, so don't give me the 'I won't debate with a fruitcake' thing. I'll leave Creationism out of it.

I'm highly educated and have participated in many classes extolling the virtues of evolution and even got A's in ever one. So here is how I understand the theory as it is currently taught...

A zillion years ago there was nothing. One day a bunch of nothing and another bunch of nothing got sideways with each other and the product of nothing and nothing being angry with each other was heat. Enough heat that nothing A and nothing B conjealed to become gas. Then, that gas came into contact with the product of another conjealation (if that is a word) - dust. These two products of conjealation (I've now used it twice, so it must be a word) were suspicious of one another and got to tusslin'. That created heat and BANG! - A much bigger bunch of nothing was ignited by the BANG! and became greater clouds of gasses and dust, which didn't like each other one bit (picture West Side Story). They continued to dream up ways of making themselves better in their little gas and dust brains until one day they became a Bull Elk.

My checking account and my savings account are both pretty close to nothing, but together I believe they have the aptitude to create a parallel universe if given a zillion years. Either that or I'll leave it up to the Easter Bunny!

Seriously, teach me how nothing and nothing begat something (OK you got me Begat is a biblical word).


DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-08 AT 11:39PM (MST)[p]I love South Park, and Mr Garrison made much more sense than any bible story I've ever heard so we're already off to a good start.


I wasn't there when life began, but there are theories that aren't bad. evolution is a proven fact with fossils to back it up, to debate that is insane.

This debate is useless I've been through it a thousand times, faith trumps logic and common sense every time and I've come to expect and accept it. I can respect your right to your religion even though I don't respect your religion, if you can't accept that then let's just drop it. if you want to go on then give me something specific you want to debate.


It feels like the dew is coming on so I have to go bale hay, evolved high yielding alfalfa that is.
 
Dude,
I don't doubt that life has evolved to a point, but my hang-up is with the Big Bang. I know I poked fun at it, but seriously, how does nothing bevome something?

DC
 
I have no doubt that Dude and his family are descendants of monkeys.....I, on the otherhand, am not.

JB
 
I swear Dupe (formally known as dude)has to be a paid actor kept on this forum to keep people coming back. How could somebody be so wrong about some many things it boggles the mind.

Evolution a proven fact....you really are delusional....Really I need to stop dupe you are taking too much of my time (I have a life) but here goes quick. You could take all the brightest scientists, engineers, computer guys, mathematicians.....give them all the raw materials in the world, all the knowledge, all the computers, anything they wanted.. bring them together and they could not produce one cell....one seed that grows into a tree...one bird wing....much less a human brain. The list in literally endless and you telling me all this happened by chance...a bunch of mutations from a big pot of goo. And you say I have a leap of faith....if you don't see the arrogant ignorance in that...you must be a fake.

The fossil record shows over and over bursts of life and supports life being created. For your theory to work the transitional fossils should be as numerous as any other fossils and these questionable fossils could fit on a table top. Again your shallow thinking sticks with superficial images like the poster of monkey, then the ape, then the caveman then man walking along....he look that proves it...see that is how it happened.....
 
fictionwriter, why don't you take your bible and some beads or something and shake it up and we'll see if it can create life? why don't you prove one story from the bible true? anything I don't give a crap? women from ribs, arks, the earth is only 6000 years old , anything. there is a little true history in the bible, beyond that you have to wing it.


This is so predictable, you feel others have to prove your tall tales false, you don't have to prove them true. the start of life is still a debate, the evolution of it isn't. Darwin is all I need, you can have the bible if that's what you need.

Are your one of those who think Obama is the anti christ? please say yes, that would be just too good.
 
I believe in evolution within a species, but talk about fairy tales on something just being made of 'nothing' is inane. And, the universe is 100% in order and MUST/DOES comply with certain unalterable LAWS, how one can have 'faith' that just happened 'randomly' is amazingly silly. Take a watch, disassemble it, take the parts and place them in a sack, shake the sack until the watch is back together and keeping perfect time. That will happen when a planet can just happen, not likely is it?

NOTHING happens randomly is the universe, we may be unaware of the why, but it is impossible to have things "just happen". The laws of Nature are always there, even when we are not aware of them. The law of gravity ALWAYS applies, even to the non-believer. Same goes for ALL the laws of Nature.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Things can and do " just happen ", there are so many thing we can't explain you could list them for days.

You choose to let a book that can't be verified answer some of the unanswered questions for you, Muslims have another version, Buhdist another ect, ect,. so what's that say about religion when even church people can't agree on what the truth is? it means nobody knows. so since faith wasn't pounded into me when I was too young to reason and I'm not a born again looking for redemtion I can say with full confidence it's a bunch of BS.

Random chance, an asteroid, crap I'd even believe in aliens planting life before I'd buy the 6000 year ago boom here we go you're all set theory, or the ark running around picking up and droping off animals that fossils prove were there millions of years before the earth was supposed to have been created. Were the dinosours to big to fit on the ark ? is that why they're gone? they drowned? why didn't Moses or who ever get every human on the same page while there were only two of them? somthing like " now you're going to hear a lot of crap about different gods and religions and stuff, I'm here to tell you this is the real one, you got that? " were Adam and Eve so stupid they couldn't get it right? maybe it's because we're so inbred? I mean we came from Adam and a chunk of rib right? so we're actually all brothers and sisters? you're sleeping with your sister? that's sick man , and to think I made fun of Ransom for marrying his cousin.

I mean I like a good story but don't insult me, if you can buy it good for you but I just can't do it and I never will.
 
Dude,
This is exactly what I was NOT looking for from this post. We can sit and debate the Bible all day long and you'll not believe a word of it while I will.

I simply asked a question about the big bang theory. How can nothing and nothing crete something. You know they can't. So, the infantesimal gases and dusts that scientists say caused the bib bang had to be created by something, right?

DC
 
Dude,
One more thing... you and Pro said the same thing in different terms. He said nothing "just happens" while you said things happen for reasons we don't understand - sounds identical to me.

Also, show me fossil evidence of inter-species evolution.

DC
 
Excatly how do you want me to prove how life started? doesn't DNA prove we're not all from the same two people, or one as you'd have it?

I may not be able to prove how life started but I'll bet science can prove it didn't start the way you say it did. isn't that worth something? I'm saying I don't know and you're saying you do, why don't you prove it?

Who needs interspecies evolution? who's to say there was only one start to life?
 
Dude,
I wouldn't expect anyone to prove how life started and in fact that is not at all related to what I asked. I would be a smart a$$ and ask if you can read, but that's not my style.

I say I know what I believe, but I asked you to "explain" that hardest part for me of what you believe "something from nothing". If you can't explain it, fine. I just asked if you could. I didn't make this mine against yours. Others may have, but not me. I respect other opinions and like to hear the best of my "opponent's" arguments. So let's keep on track. Is it not a little hard to believe that "nothing and nothing begat something"?

As far as you comment about inter-species evolution goes, I was simply picking up on the post as it had morphed. To say that each species started independently does not conform with any evolution teaching I've ever heard.

I do agree with you on one point, though. Most scientists in the field are trying to disprove any Biblical concept they can, but that really is not what this post is about.

Respectfully,

DC
 
Ransom,
Comments like this sure don't help. I'm as conservative as conservative gets, but the level of stonethrowing in this forum gets us nowhere. I know I'm the new guy in the polical forum, but everyone in here seems to need to get past the personal issues and work on factual debating techniques.

Respectfully,

DC
 
DC

You are right of course. I'm headed to the mountains for 4 days with no internet. Maybe things will calm down then. Thanks.


Ransom
 
Ransom,
I spent the day with my 3 kids (5,3,1) at my cabin and doing some truck scouting. I saw some elk and some deer and spent quality time with my kids. Things are back in perspective. I hope my post didn't offend you.

DC
 
DC

Not at all. Crap this is the only time Dude has got to me LOL.
Being called dumber than dumb was a little much but maybe deserved.
Sent you another PM.


Ransom
 
"Faith is believing in what you know in your heart not to be true"

Guess this debate will be resolved for each of us one day.

Hope you find a big one Ransom!!!!

RUS
 
>Dude, Piper and anyone else, take
>this opportunity to explain evolution
>to my feeble mind.

It went like this:

evolve.jpg



-DallanC
 
Luckless you've got some class , I respect that. if I came off offensive I appoligize, there are a few sad sacks around here circling like buzzards for any decenting opinion to go personal on. the head buzzard just picked up another flock member.

I don't mind wise cracks that's just for fun I can take if I'm going to give it, but if I get out of line call me on it.

As to the evolution debate I do think it will be proven in time, to any willing to accept fact over faith anyway. in my mind evolution isn't a theory it's a fact with a few missing peices, in time they will be found. even when that happens people like you won't accept it so nothing will really change, and there's nothing wrong with that . we're both happy with our beliefs as are the people from the other 10,000 religions.
 
EVOLVING HUH???

WE ALL STARTED OUT AS MONKEYS!!!

SOME OF US EVOLVED!!!

I BECOME A cat!!!

THERES STILL ALOT OF MONKEYS!!!

AND THERES MORE EVOLVING JACK-ASSES BY THE DAY!!!

DOES ANYBODY BELIEVE ME???



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Ok guys the debate was over and we won when Dupe said this:

" I wasn't there when life began, but there are theories that aren't bad. evolution is a proven fact with fossils to back it up, to debate that is insane."

In Dupes world Theory = Fact

Now do you guys see what we are arguing with?????






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
202 what part of fossils and evolution do you have an argument with? fossils are real you can see them, no faith needed. besides doesn't the 6000 year old earth part of your book against the proven millions of years old fossils give you a little heart burn? that's kind of a dilly of a pickle there now isn't it? a thinking man might say well......? not you.

I said the begining of life is debatable, prove your story book explaination and I'll conceed, until then it's Dr Suess VS Science.
 
dude er I mean Dr Seuss, where exactly in the Bible does it say the earth is only 6000 years old? I have read it many times and I have yet to read that. Please 'enlighten' me.

You can NOT prove where/how life started on this planet anymore than a Christian can through the Bible, to assert otherwise is not dealing with reality. Like I said, "nothing just happens" in Nature. We may not understand why certain things happen, or how they happen, but all actions on this planet are held to the laws of nature. Just because one doesn't believe in the law of gravity doesn't make it cease to exist for that person.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Google it, it's everywhere. something about Adam on the 5th or 6th day, add something about genisis plus Moses or Jeff or something this and that and you come up with, 6,000 years give or take a few.

If you don't agree with 6000 how old is it? don't say millions because that just won't even begin to fit your time lines. science can prove earth is millions of years old so right there we have a problem, lets give you some wiggle room and say god created life 10 times longer ago than your book says, let's make it 60,000 years. that's yesterday in the world of fossils so what do you have to say to that? if your time line is impossible why should I believe your theory on how it happened? I mean give me a break, you people buy this?
 
>Dude,
>This is exactly what I was
>NOT looking for from this
>post. We can sit
>and debate the Bible all
>day long and you'll not
>believe a word of it
>while I will.
>
>I simply asked a question about
>the big bang theory.
>How can nothing and nothing
>crete something. You know
>they can't. So, the
>infantesimal gases and dusts that
>scientists say caused the bib
>bang had to be created
>by something, right?
>
>DC


Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang Theory. They are completely separate. Evolution is used to explain how life evolved not how it came to being.
 
I remain.......please explain how in Dupe world does Theory = Fact






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
dude, the Bible makes NO MENTION of 6000 years, NONE.

Now, when you can explain how something was created out of nothing through pure random acts in perfect conditions to support life as we know it, I will then explain what I 'buy into'. You can do NO better explaining YOUR fairy tale of the 'Big Bang THEORY' than a five year old trying to explain nuclear fusion.

pro

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I didnt read all the posts so if i duplicate something pardon me.

Evolution= cell, born to muslim father, follows islamic traditions, smokes dope, learns two languages, deceit and big business,marries ivy league left wing unproud American?, lands a job in Govt, runs for President.

Left out alot of stuff in between but you get the picture.
Evolution. I do get it.

Wait a minute. Didnt Obama go to church?
I know the Reverand used the word GOD I heard it. Does Obama believe in Evolution or a creator? Answer that.
So if he does believe in a creator does taht mean you are still voting for him? Im seeing some hypocrasy here somewhere.
Just having fun cuz right now I really dont care im waiting for the big flush. I know it is futile to talk with those things which must have evolved from the planet of apes.
 
Pro you have to use the time lines set forth in the bible to draw a conclusuon to how old the world is, it's not just " 6000" years printed out to read , nothing in the bible is that simple from what I see.

Check it out for yourself and do the math. I'm going by what your bible people say, if you guys can't agree don't expect me to sort it out because none of it makes sense. it's your story not mine. how old do you say earth is? use the time lines as best you can and give me some idea.

I don't care what religion Obama is or isn't, as far as I'm concerned as long as any politian respects the separation of church and state they're free to believe or not believe as they wish.
 
dude, until you post an aswer to the questions posed to you MULTIPLE times all I hear is quacking.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pro, you never will get an answer. I will admit one time dude found my weak spot and sucked me into a debate that went around and around. He never addressed my arguement directly.
He says he is a famrer or rancher (can't remember), but I think he is a pro hired by founder (I'm just kidding). How many farmer/ranchers do you know that can spend as much time on the internet as he does. Keep in mind he argues several debates with multiple people at the same time.
 
Pro I've already told you I don't know how life began, but I have little doubt in time is will be known. I've asked you to provide some proof of your theory and you refuse to.

You won't even tell me how old the earth is, I don't have an owners manual like you do I have to count on science and logic to help me figure it out. open that thing up and give me an age on the planet and we'll see if it holds water any better than the inbred human begining theory. for someone with all the answers you're sure holding them close to your vest. let's hear them.

My ag business doesn't take up 100% of my time, but I never leave in the spring or summer so I'm always here. I check the weather, futures markets, sell hay and bid on old car parts on ebay all the time, if I'm going to check the computer anyway it doesn't take long to come here and argue with you clowns. until harvest starts I'm not too tied down, you think all farmers and ranchers are in the hay loft 18 hours a day with a pitch fork or something? not anymore.
 
dude, the Bible isn't a clock, it is a history of the earth since man has been smart enough to talk/read/write. I don't recall an exact time line in there, that isn't the purpose of the Book.

Funny how you MOCK God fearing folks for not having any proof when you FINALLY admit you have NO ANSWERS/PROOF for your beliefs. I am only stunned that you finally admitted it. You have no doubt scientists will finally figure it out, I have no doubt God will let us know when it is warranted. Why is your 'faith' any more 'logical' than mine? Talk about hypocrisy.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
>Pro I've already told you I
>don't know how life began,
>but I have little doubt
>in time is will be
>known. I've asked you to
>provide some proof of your
>theory and you refuse to.
>
>
> You won't even tell me
>how old the earth is,
>I don't have an owners
>manual like you do I
>have to count on science
>and logic to help me
>figure it out. open that
>thing up and give me
>an age on the planet
>and we'll see if it
>holds water any better than
>the inbred human begining theory.
>for someone with all the
>answers you're sure holding them
>close to your vest. let's
>hear them.
>
> My ag business doesn't take
>up 100% of my time,
>but I never leave in
>the spring or summer so
>I'm always here. I check
>the weather, futures markets, sell
>hay and bid on old
>car parts on ebay all
>the time, if I'm going
>to check the computer anyway
>it doesn't take long to
>come here and argue with
>you clowns. until harvest starts
>I'm not too tied down,
>you think all farmers and
>ranchers are in the hay
>loft 18 hours a day
>with a pitch fork or
>something? not anymore.


LOL Hey you should see my floppy shoes and big red nose. My dad Fatrooster has some also.
 
EVOLVING HUH???

WE ALL STARTED OUT AS MONKEYS!!!

SOME OF US EVOLVED!!!

I BECOME A cat!!!

THERES STILL ALOT OF MONKEYS!!!

AND THERES MORE EVOLVING JACK-ASSES BY THE DAY!!!

DOES ANYBODY BELIEVE ME???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Pro I didn't hear one answer there just more crap. I never ever said I knew how life began, I said there are theories that I find more believable than your tall tales. beyond the start of life science can pretty much trace evolution . so we're missing one piece of the puzzle, granted a pretty big one but you're missing every peice.

Why different DNA if we're all from one man? and how old is the earth? I have many questions but you're hung up here so you give me an answer, if your book can't do you any good why should I believe it? have faith and don't question just won't cut it for me.

For the record I didn't start this argument, so don't say I'm mocking you when I was asked to debate. I'm much more tolerant of religious people than you are of people who aren't, maybe you should be a Muslim.
 
If we evolved from moneys shouldn't we all have the sam eDNA using your 'logic' dude? Explain how come there are no monkeys evolvong into humans today, why did it stop? One would think monkeys would be giving birth to little dudes every now and then if that is really where we came from, yes? You got ONE thing right, you are missing a pretty big part of your THEORY, big enough to make it a THEORY and not SCIENCE. With all the super smart progressives out there, one would think they could duplicate the 'Big Bang THEORY' in a lab, yet they can't. WOnder why? Maybe someday, progressives will be able to create something out of nothing. Yeah and religion is a "tall tale". Funny stuff there dude.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-08 AT 08:39AM (MST)[p]I've been reading this thread for a couple days now, and wow you guys are quite entertaining; and aside from the personal issues, have brought up some good points on both sides of the topic.

ProOutdoors
I'm not taking sides ; but I would like to focus on your last post:

"...If we evolved from moneys shouldn't we all have the sam eDNA using your 'logic' dude? Explain how come there are no monkeys evolvong into humans today, why did it stop? One would think monkeys would be giving birth to little dudes every now and then if that is really where we came from, yes..."

1. Science and genetic evidence shows that humans and chimpanzees share about 95% of the exact same DNA. That's pretty darn close to me. There have been countless medical studies that prove this; therefore, NOT making it a theory....but making it a fact.

2. Also, we haven't seen any chimpanzees crapping out weird hybrids because we are such a miniscule speck in historical time. IF chimps are going to evolve into something else, it would take hundreds of thousands of years to happen. There wouldn't be such a drastic change from chimp parents to offspring that we could see it. Very small and insignificant changes would happen over time until these changes compile to produce something that it genetically different than it's origins.
 
BGbasbhat, if you paid attention you would realize my DNA comment was in reference to dude saying if ALL humans came from Adam and Eve they should have the same DNA. Try and keep up. I am a firm believer in evolution within a species but to think a fish, 'over time' will ever be an elephant is ABSURD.

dude, here is the deal, when YOU answer my questions that were asked before yours, I will answer yours. I'll wait.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Good points, but by questioning creationism you've already taken a side as far as these guys are concerned.

Pro you won't tell me when the earth was created, and you won't tell me how we can have different DNA if we're all full brothers and sisters so what about the ark story and the DNA of those animals? as someone who's worked with some line breeding in horses and cattle I can tell you thousands of years of that kind of inbreeding would be a disaster, in fact I doubt there is a chance the species would even survive. one more logical question with no answer what so ever.
 
dude, it isn't that I won't it is I can't tell you the exact day the earth was created, and neither can you or any scientist out there. The Bible is a road map, not the answer to everything. I personally believe the earth is billions of years old, and everything that has been on this planet before man served a purpose that benefits us today. I also believe NOTHING 'just happened/happens', that is an impossibility. We don't have all the answers, not because we believe in God, but despite our belief in God. You claim to not believe in a higher being, and yet you don't have ALL the answers either. Yet, you try and say man coming from a SINGLE cell makes more sense than 'my' version. How so? You talk about inbreeding, how many elk can be traced back to just a few hundred elk that are spread out all over the western states? They seem pretty dang healthy to me.

If moneys were evolving into man millions of years ago, one would think it would still be happening. The "something being created from nothing" is the biggest tall tale every CREATED!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
BGasshat said
"2. Also, we haven't seen any chimpanzees crapping out weird hybrids because we are such a miniscule speck in historical time. IF chimps are going to evolve into something else, it would take hundreds of thousands of years to happen. There wouldn't be such a drastic change from chimp parents to offspring that we could see it. Very small and insignificant changes would happen over time until these changes compile to produce something that it genetically different than it's origins."

Since you believe this BGasshat would it not stand to reason then, that we would see the evolutionary lineage alive today or some faximile thereof? You guys make these giant leaps from a chimp to a man. But there is absolutly nothing in between. So then you would answer with some crap about Lucy the missing link, right. Well if the friggin chimp was elvolving back then he would surely be evolving today and there would be missing links all over the place.
And just like global warming BGasshat, 95% does not a conscensus make.






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Maybe we evolved from a banana.




Plant DNA
Even the DNA of plants is similar to that of humans. "We share 60% of our DNA with a banana." DNA is generally to be found in chromosomes usually coiled up very tightly, like the tape in a cassette.
Images with the text:
Plant DNA
Representing DNA
The double helix of DNA is among the iconic images of our time. It is the symbol of controversies over the nature of the human being, industrial development and of the beauty of science. Each molecule looks like a twisted ladder composed of two helical backbones made of a sugar and an acid linked by rungs of four related bases.
You can't actually see DNA with the naked eye but a simplified model can give you a flavour of the structure and symmetry.
Sugar-phosphate backbone
The curving edge of the beautiful double helix is made up of an unusual sugar (deoxyribose) alternating with phosphoric acid. This sugar phosphate 'backbone' of the molecule is remarkably strong. In genetic engineering, restriction enzymes are used to break the backbone.
Base-pair rungs
The 'rungs' of the twisted 'ladder' of DNA are made up of pairs of bases. There are four different bases: adenine (A), thymine (T), cytosine (C) and guanine (G). An A will only form a complete 'rung' if it can be matched with a T and vice versa. In the same way, a C will only match up with a G, or a G with a C. It is the bonds holding these A-T and C-G pairs together which are quite weak and easily split down the middle. This makes it easy to split the molecule and is the basis of replication.
 
That explains dudes 'split' personality!

Does that make me a banana republican?

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-08 AT 03:01PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-08 AT 02:59?PM (MST)

202
As I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread, the amount of evidence/skeletal remains/etc. is small (maybe a bit more than a table full); but nevertheless, it is there. Perhaps not multiple full skeletons and civilizations have been found with a sign saying ?I am your ancestor?; however, enough evidence has been found to analyze and study. In these studies, the various skulls/vertebrae/pelvis bones do show that there was some sort of ?less evolved? bipedals who have called Earth home in the past few million years. Check out ?Australopithecus?.

I never stated that we evolved from chimps. I just stated we share 95% of their DNA. The studies I've read state that we evolved from a mammal who was much like the present day chimpanzee. The mammal was a quadruped with opposable thumbs, a larger than normal round cranium, open pelvis with the ability of bipedal locomotion, and fairly distinct facial structure. This mammal was probably an ancestor of our present day chimpanzee.

I tend to look at our evolution like branches of a tree, with the chimp and our ancestor being the main branch. The branch splits into two, one side of the split leading to our present day apes. The other branch eventually leading to us, with various short branches off representing the various Australoid strains which I discussed above.

?And the chimp is evolving today, as are we.

?I'm well aware that 95% doesn't make a consensus, and I hope you don't think I was trying to make one. But I think we have reverted back to the original discussion topic, which is a good thing, even though picking on Dude was kinda funny.
 
I've got one for you since DNA seems to be inadmissible here.

Man was created on the 6th day or something after the earth was made right? so how did the dinosours get here? they couldn't have been before man because there was no life and no planet so when did they live? are they gone because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark? if they were before Noah then why is there no mention of T Rex snacking on Moses and his posse?


Maybe dinosour fossils were just planted by liberal evolution theory scientist to screw with you? how do we know dinosours really existed right?
 
dude, you are using your banana 'logic' again, and it is over ripe!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I didn't figure you'd take that one on.

I asked it of a born again friend trying to save me and got about the same reaction. I have lots more where that came from but if you won't even try it's not going to be much fun.
 
Where you MISS THE BOAT is thinking the mention of days in the Bible is 24 hours. That is an assumption that God is beholden to OUR time frame, which is the FIRST of many wrong assumptions. It is clear to me that dinos where here LONG before man, and they served a purpose for man (oil), as did/do all things. Everything on this planet is here for the benefit of man. You must not like ANY of the authors of the Constitution, since they put "CREATOR" right in it. For a bunch of "fools" there sure made a dang good document didn't they? They believed our "human rights" are endowed to us by a CREATOR. How do you feel about them being God-fearing men?

PRO


Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I am sad that no one caught my, or made a coment about my, childish, sophomoric, attempt at humor by changing BGbasbhat name to BGasshat :(

Just goes to show you that BGbasbhat is a much bigger person than I am.

You are still smaller than me Dupe :)







"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Sorry for the wierd cut and paste...(search the net lots more if interested)but it is the content that counts...we can all agree Einstein was a smart guy right????? Einstien belived in a intelligent designer.

Einstein versus Darwin: Intelligent Design or Evolution?
Would you be surprised to know that millions of scientists around the
world do not blindly accept Darwin's THEORY of evolution? Would it
shock you to know that many of these professors and researchers are not
religious, but they embrace the theory of Intelligent Design, which
holds that our intricate universe could not have come about by chance?
Would it blow you away to find that Albert Einstein was one of them?
Yet many politically active scientists today are desperately
maneuvering to censor any mention of the theory of Intelligent Design
in our schools, textbooks and media. Their accomplices in this blatant
censorship are liberal politicians, atheists, most of the media and the
national teacher's union (the Nation Education Association or NEA).
Darwin's theory is just that - a theory. It has never been proven, and
cannot be proven. But the censors mentioned above want Darwin's THEORY
taught as FACT, and they want no other theories even mentioned.
Einstein is just one of millions of prominent scientists over the years
that have supported the theory of Intelligent Design, but he is perhaps
the best known. In an article in "Science, Philosophy and Religion, A
Symposium," (see LINK below) Einstein said, "Science without religion
is lame. Religion without science is blind."
In the last paragraph of his essay, "The World as I See It," Einstein
wrote, "I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a
knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence - as well
as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason
that manifests itself in nature." While Einstein referred to the
Designer as "Reason" rather than "God," his writings make it very clear
that he believed that an intelligent Designer crafted our universe and
all that is within it. On the other hand, Darwin postulated that all
life somehow crawled out of primordial ooze and miraculously became
differentiated as mammals, reptiles, fish, fowl and so on. It seems
that such a far-fetched theory would require much more faith than
simply believing that God did what He said He did in Genesis: He
created everything according to His plan.
On page 293 of his book, "The Origin of the Species," Darwin stated
that his THEORY would ultimately be proven by the fossil record. This
has never happened. If the theory were true, at least some of the
millions of fossils discovered by scientists would have provided a
"missing link", a fossil that was clearly part one species as well as
part another. Although there have been several attempts over the years
to fake evidence to prove Darwin's theory, the "missing link" has never
been found.
It should be noted that many proponents of Intelligent Design are not
religious; they are simply intellectually honest scientists who see the
flaws in evolutionary theory. Without calling the Designer "God", they
recognize that the complex organisms that populate our universe could
not have resulted from anything other than systematic design by an
intelligent being. Unfortunately, these scientists are hounded by their
evolutionist peers, often losing their jobs because of their beliefs.
Scientists who would censor or intimidate others with differing
theories are not worthy of the title "Scientist." A Wall Street Journal
Editorial recently exposed the decades-long
persecution of scientists who support the theory of Intelligent Design
(ID). It used as an example a scientist at the Smithsonian's National
Museum of Natural History in Washington, Richard Steinberg. Steinberg,
who holds two PhD's in biology, was the editor of a Museum publication
that printed an article on ID which had been reviewed by scientific
peers prior to publication. He was demoted and a concerted effort is
underway to ruin his career.
Our children deserve better than being brainwashed by their schools
into believing a false religion is based on fact. They deserve to be
told that evolution is nothing more than a theory that has never been
proven, and allowed to consider alternatives to that theory.
 
So why is Sunday the 7th day? in your way of thinking a day is around a million to a billion years, shouldn't you go to church every 500 million years or so to keep things real? it's been explained to me god created life in a day, 24 hours in fact, and by life that would include dinosours.

I'll give you credit for two things, you pulled off the only answer you could and as dumb as it is it's an answer. you also throw the constitution into a dinosour debate because you know I have deep respect for the wisdom and forsight of the founding fathers. but I also have deep respect for some pretty religious people today, unlike you I don't hate everything I disagree with. if religion had been beat into me when I was young I'd probably buy it as well, but my dad thought exactly as I do so reality was my up bringing. some of my best friends are church goers I'm 100% fine with it, now back to Moses and T Rex.
 
Sorry 202, I did notice; but forgot to come up with something witty to retort with.

I did get a good chuckle out of it though........


Now if you'd excuse me, I have to grab a cup of coffee to read Adventurewriter's cut n' paste post.....
 
Interesting you should bring up Einstein, a letter dated 1954 sold $404,000 at aution a little while back which started out

" The word of god to me is nothing but the expression and product of human weakness, the bible is a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. "

Now that's a little more direct than I'd put it but exactly my thinking.
 
Dude wrote:

I've got one for you since DNA seems to be inadmissible here.
Man was created on the 6th day or something after the earth was made right? so how did the dinosours get here? they couldn't have been before man because there was no life and no planet so when did they live? are they gone because Noah couldn't fit them on the ark? if they were before Noah then why is there no mention of T Rex snacking on Moses and his posse?


Maybe dinosour fossils were just planted by liberal evolution theory scientist to screw with you? how do we know dinosours really existed right?

Dude,
I'll take that on. Where does is say in the bible that dinosours didn't exist. Is your arguement because the word "dinosaur" is not mentioned in the bible? How could it when the the word dinosaur was first used in 1841 and the bible was translated into English in 1611. How could they use a term that was not in existence.
So what does the bible say about large creatures (aka dinosaurs)? Read Job 40:1-24. I tell you what I don't want you to burn your fingers, so I will copy it for you to read.


Job 40:15-24

"15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares."


A tail like a "cedar" and "he drinketh up a river" I don't know about you but this sounds like a dinosaur to me.
Ok dude now it's your turn to start spinning.
 
EVOLVING HUH???

WE ALL STARTED OUT AS MONKEYS!!!

SOME OF US EVOLVED!!!

I BECOME A cat!!!

THERES STILL ALOT OF MONKEYS!!!

AND THERES MORE EVOLVING JACK-ASSES BY THE DAY!!!

DOES ANYBODY BELIEVE ME???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
It is a fact that there is more proof that creatures are de-evolving then evolving. In laymens terms we are losing gentic information not gaining it. Someone would have an easier time convincing me that in a million years we will become ooze then trying to convice me that we came from ooze.
 
You lost me when you went to the churchese but are you saying the dinosaur was around after Adam and Eve? if I lived along side millions of animals that size trying to eat me I'd have had a more vivid discription than what ever you have there, every other word would be F#### with lots of exclamation points.


If they were prior to man how do you explain the 5 or 6 days that lasted a few billion years?
 
Those are wise words from a very wise member, but we're not fighting here I'm educating you.
 
Huh!!! What are you spinning? The only thing I got out of that was you didn't understand what I was saying. OK I will type very slowly for you.

I was addressing your implication that the bible refutes the existence of dinosaurs. I merely showed you some passages from the bible that one could conclude the bible does in fact recognize the existence of dinosaurs.

Are you following me? You implied that the bible refutes the existence of dinosaurs and I showed you proof that it does not imply or even hint that dinosaurs didn't exist.

I never addressed or questioned your other point on the chronological dating of when they existed and nor did I mention the bible's chronological dating.

I will go so far as to say you, by not responding with a rebuttal directly relating to the one point of your argument that I challenged, have admitted that I am correct on that one point. The bible recognizes the existence of dinosaurs.

Ok I'll put a spin on it. The bible backs up your argument that dinosaurs did in fact exist. Does this make you happy?
 
I said wouldn't you have more than a few words to say about dinosaurs if you live with them? I'd think they would be something worthy of a few vauge lines I can't read.

I never said the bible didn't say they existed, I'll ask again slowly, were they before or after Adam and Eve? if they were before how do you account for millions or billions of years in 6 days between creating the universe and creating life? if dino's were after Adam and Eve shouldn't they have been more than a foot note? was it like the Flintstones?

Pro dodged it, how old do you say the earth is? we need some kind of time line to figure this out. I know it's billions of years old which gives me time to explain much with evolution. bible talk says 6,000 to maybe 10,000 years, see with dino's we have a problem there.
 
> I said wouldn't you have
>more than a few words
>to say about dinosaurs if
>you live with them? I'd
>think they would be something
>worthy of a few
>vauge lines I can't read.
>
>
> I never said the bible
>didn't say they existed, I'll
>ask again slowly, were they
>before or after Adam and
>Eve? if they were before
>how do you account for
>millions or billions of years
>in 6 days between creating
>the universe and creating life?
>if dino's were after Adam
>and Eve shouldn't they have
>been more than a foot
>note? was it like the
>Flintstones?
>
> Pro dodged it, how old
>do you say the earth
>is? we need some kind
>of time line to figure
>this out. I know it's
>billions of years old which
>gives me time to explain
>much with evolution. bible talk
>says 6,000 to maybe 10,000
>years, see with dino's we
>have a problem there.


I don't know why there are only a few words, but why does this matter? I have seen people write you more then a few words and it hasn't done any good.
When did they exist per the bible you ask. I see you didn't read your homework. The passage said in the beginning. That would mean along with the other creatures, so yes during the time of Adam and Eve.
You ask how long ago that was. I'm going to spin that. Please tell me how old you think the dinosaur fossils are and give me the data references you are using, so I can research their validity.
 
I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW OLD THIS EARTH REALLY IS???

EVOLVING HUH???

WE ALL STARTED OUT AS MONKEYS!!!

SOME OF US EVOLVED!!!

I BECOME A cat!!!

THERES STILL ALOT OF MONKEYS!!!

AND THERES MORE EVOLVING JACK-ASSES BY THE DAY!!!

DOES ANYBODY BELIEVE ME???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
dude, since you're "educating" us weak minded religious folk, you should have the answers by now to my questions, and yet all I hear from you is more quacking. If it walks like a ...., talks like a ...., it must be a DUCK!

How old is this planet, how did something come from NOTHING, how is you NOT answering these questions 'educating' us? I thought you said science has ALL the answers, so ANSWER the questions Daffy!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pro let your partners with somrthing to say handle this, you're just hurting your cause.

In the begining? the begining of what? the planet? the universe? life ? the NFL? most say fossil records start around 3.4 billion years ago, human fossils date back around 200,000 years from the ones we have to date. you don't need my help to research it, give me a break there is a lifetime of reading on it in front of you. give me a time line of some kind, bible people agree 60-10 thousand years but all you guys will say is that's wrong yet you don't have a clue what right. that's a weak argument and no answer.


Are you telling me humans like us coexisted with dinosaurs like the the Flintstones and a few lines in the bible is the only record ? you have got to be kidding me.

This all boils down to faith vs logic, you're entitled to your belief but don't get upset with someone for using logic. the bible has so many literally unbelievable storys and no clear answers for any question to expect anyone without a religious mindset to even consider it is unreasonable. if Einstein didn't buy it there's no reason I should.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-08 AT 12:06PM (MST)[p]What is 'logical' in believing something came from nothing? You are right about one thing, me expecting you to even consider something your daddy didn't believe is unreasonable. Here I thought you SP's were 'open-minded', WTF was I thinking?

According to you, believing the earth "just happened", and it "just happens" to be the perfect distance from the sun, and the gases "just happen" to be at the right levels for man to exist, and all this is unexplainable. Then you say your the one using 'logic'. Classic!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Dupe, I thought the thread was on evolution not the merits of the bible. Evolution is bunk?.The cut and paste I put up was Einstein?s thought on evolution versus an intelligent designer

I am not biblical scholar and know my limitations unlike you. Cmcentuly is on his game and apparently knows his stuff?but I know he is typing as slow as he can you need to read slowly. We have had that problem in the past with you. Take notes!!!


Okay scenario. Young bright guy decides he is going to change the world?he is going to find the scientific Holy Grail?.The missing link. (He should have to find thousands of them but the bar has been set at a handful or so by an evolution community desperate to find evidence) This is what he was born to do, always the class valedictorian, annual winner in the science fairs, lying in bed at night looking his evolution poster of the baboon to a chimp to a gorilla to a caveman to a guy that looks just like Dupe (sorry couldn't resist?ha.. lighten up) and then modern man carrying a brief case. His life course set. College evolution professors take this bright eager kid under their wing?does some internship?.digs.. With others who think just like he does. Studies ?Origins of Species? as if ? well?. it was the divine word of God. But his life?s mission is waiting.

But this young bright guy can't just head off in to the wilderness with a back pack and a dream he needs money and lots of it if he is going to really give this a go. Puts together an inspiring proposal. He pulls off the financial backing but he is still an upstart so it is a smaller exploratory grant. But it will be enough, this is the chance he has dreamed of, they will name foundations after him, scholarships, parks, think tanks; his name will be etched in stone with the likes of Pauling, Saulk, Leonardo and the greatest in his eyes Darwin. Imagine being spoken about in the same company of DARWIN, his life dream is coming true. And his motivation is not all self serving he is going to enlighten all of mankind (sounds familiar), change the way all of humanity looks at itself. So he wanders around the desert for about five years sending bits of info to his backers keeping them a little excited so the funding continues. Can?t really tell them he ain?t finding squat?.always ready for a big breakthrough?.so periodically they find something interesting. Even year after year in the desert he does not lose his enthusiasm. His quest has become all consuming there is no turning back. He writes some good paper to ?verify? his finds and keep the money coming in. He is not necessarily a fraudster he just wants it to happen so danm bad. After all he has dedicated his life to his quest. He just needs more time and money for the big break through he so longs for?it is right around the corner?under the next rock. His mindset is singularly tracked.

In comparison I see a bear and the Sasquatch guy sees Bigfoot, I see a weather balloon s a UFO guy sees a flying saucer. We alter our perceptions to see what we want to even if we realize it not.

And he finds lots of stuff. Everything that was once alive leaves a set of bones strewn about from hundreds if not thousands of different kinds of animals. Creatures in different stages of growth and physical development, injured and healed, diseased, mutated, species long extinct we never knew about. But then these remains become even more complicated after a while they get mixed, turn into fragments, degraded in countless ways. Literally zillions of sets of bones deposited in the earth?s environment.

Well those pesky backers keep getting in the way of his dream and asking for results waiting for the big yell of Eureka! Well guess what can happen. I just tossed an easy one your way Dupe. He might just try and be a little more optimistic than is warranted?.or just plain lie?..or see things that just aren't there, consumed by the dream and now becoming a little defiant to anyone that might question his dream?.he will show them.. He has dedicated his heart, soul (okay not his soul) and life to the finding the missing link. Just five more years of funding and I just know it there. After all who is going to question him? He is the friggin expert. National Geographic is calling about a cover story. Universities are teaching his body of work as gospel. This is pretty heady stuff to anyone. Any dissent from the scientific community is only out of jealousy or those crazy Christian nuts. Many evolution scientists jump on his bandwagon; maybe get a ladle full of grant gravy to dine on. Although some fellow evolution scientist might think his findings are a little dicey he is one of us and we sure the hell are not going to give any ammo to those right wing wack jobs. Our movement is gathering strength?momentum. After all everyone now accepts evolution as fact and any dissenting scientists will quickly be branded fools shut out from the grant and funding trough. Soon any dissent becomes ?bad for business? his now ?brilliant? body of work has become the standard. Accepted as fact.


So at the end of a lifetime of digging in the desert rising to idol status do you really think this guy is going to say ?well darn it I just wasted my life I guess I called that one wrong better tell the world what a fool am? , of course not. His legacy is already set

Remember these scientists are not unbiased machines they are people and people have lots and lots of biases. I believe OJ has convinced himself he didn't cut up his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.

Have you seem the rebuilds from a few fragments. Three or four pieces of bone the size of a silver dollar and then they build a whole skull out of it. Then take it a step further putting flesh on that fabricated skull complete with colour, expression and hair.

So for those of you that take evolution as fact give it a little more thought before you put the way you look at life on based on a table top of crumbly bones verified by biased people with serious agendas.
 
I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW HOW THIS WORLD WAS INVENTED???

EVOLVING HUH???

WE ALL STARTED OUT AS MONKEYS!!!

SOME OF US EVOLVED!!!

I BECOME A cat!!!

THERES STILL ALOT OF MONKEYS!!!

AND THERES MORE EVOLVING JACK-ASSES BY THE DAY!!!

DOES ANYBODY BELIEVE ME???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
202 we don't even know how many planets are in the universe so you find it unreasonable that this one just happened to be the one in a million or billion to have all the right stuff?

How am I supposed to prove all your tales wrong when you won't accept fact? fossils and the age of the earth are 100% positive billions of years old, that right there ends this debate but to you it's only a minor glitch.

fictionwriter I told you no more novels if you want to argue with me, you're to dull to get all the way through but the gist of it I think was if I can't prove otherwise it's true and if I can prove otherwise it's corrupt science. why don't you answer my question about how old the earth is, what's up with the dinosaurs? if we can't get beyond this the rest of it is already disproven in my opinion.

I feel I've asked very good questions that if this were the court of law would be considered basic arguments and you guys dodge them at every turn without even an attempt at an answer. answer them or come up with a new angle besides pointing out the fact I'm missing one piece of the puzzle and you have none.
 
Dude,
I've been busy, but you know I won't dodge your question.

You say 6000 years, which is what I would say the Bible says in a round about way - lineage. However, the lineage is not intended to show the age of the Earth, but instead to show how Christ fulfilled early Jewish prophecy - tribe, etc. The age of the Earth is just an added benefit.

As for your statement that fossils equal fact on the age of the Earth being "billions" of years, I'm going to have to raise the good ol' BS flag. Just because "science" has accepted carbon dating and other means of setermining age, doesn't make it fact. The OLDEST things that can be analyzed are only a few thousand years old. From there, scientists extrapolated ages of things that had no record in history. These ages are then extrapolated over and over again when something appears older. I may not be well versed in carbon dating techniques, but I can say that assmuptions (that is what extrapolation is) based on other assumptions rapidly spiral out of control.

Just a thought, but how can we say that an object is a zillion years old when the nearest control group (known age) is only a few thousand years old. Also, without knowledge of the conditions in which the object has been stored (throughout its life), how can we determine anything? Who is to say that the extreme pressure of a flood didn't make things only 6,000 years old deteriorate at a much faster rate. Oh wait, that would be questioning FACT and we know scientists never question FACT!

Respectfully,


DC
 

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