Ted Turner's NM

[NMPaul]

Interesting article about Ted Turner's Ranches.
http://www.nmmagazine.com/article/?aid=91138#.VV3O70YXUo1

 

[throwfar]

Good article thanks for sharing, to be a billionaire...

 

[NMPaul]

>Good article thanks for sharing, to
>be a billionaire...

He is doing it better than most.

 

[cosmic_cowboy]

WOW no pics of the Wolves he turned loose on Vermejo ?? I guess thats not fit for yuppie consumption... or maybe it is but he can't come clean... The fishing guides dont like the henchmen he has to harass people legally fishing the Rio at his Estancia Ranch... He thinks he now owns the east side of the Rio Grande...LOL!
Jack

 

[hank4elk]

Good read.
Guy has done more for saving rangeland than anyone,and wildlife. Even wolves.
I have no problem with what he does on his land. And from what what I've seen of whats left here in NM wild or natural,he has few peers in range management.
My little 140 acres is jealous and is protected by one ranch henchman who runs off the trespassers. Me.
And I'm leaving it to someone who will continue to improve it for wildlife.

 

[DW]

Anybody hunted his ranch?

 

[WVHUNTER]

I haven't hunted there but I have looked at it. It's 12K to 15K for a bull elk hunt. That's for a 300 to 320 class elk.

It's high success and probably a good experience but if I was going to spend 15K there are other hunts I would consider.

 

[Prime_Beef]

LAST EDITED ON May-22-15 AT 08:32AM (MST)[p]I'm a little sceptical about the comment in the article about not hunting lions on Ted's ranch. Pretty sure the NMDGF went in there several years ago and took out a bunch of lions after they they lost half the sheep they planted to lion kills. Probably still do from time to time.

 

[nmwapiti]

I work at Vermejo as a fishing guide. Have been there for almost 10 years. Although I don't guide the elk hunts, I have spent enough time there to see my fair share of monster bulls. Its an amazing place, I feel fortunate enough to be able to roam that place a few days each year.

 

[nmwapiti]

>I haven't hunted there but I
>have looked at it. It's
>12K to 15K for a
>bull elk hunt. That's for
>a 300 to 320 class
>elk.
>
>It's high success and probably a
>good experience but if I
>was going to spend 15K
>there are other hunts I
>would consider.

320 is their "average bull". What you have to consider is their "average hunter" is over 60 years old and not as mobile as they used to be. If you can put some boot leather on the ground, you have a legit chance at a 350-380 class bull.

 

[greatwestern]

^copy that...place is magical. Seen quite a few hammer bulls up there during my time on the ranch, and ol Pat always sends me pics of some big dudes that he catches on his many trail cams

The park is one of the jewels of this great state...it is always wonderful to have the privilege to spend time there

 

[stoney]

Turner was just denied the renewal of his permit to raise Mexican Gray Wolves on his Ladder Ranch by the NM Game Commission. This was a bold move and thanks to Commissioner Ramos whom held The Turner Ranch's feet to the fire. Turner is a hypocrite. Our hunting heritage is at stake with the Mexican Gray Wolf EXpansion and Ted has helped the program from the start. Just what our elk herds need, more wolves and you can bet Ted Turner wanted them . He even wants wolves to be released on his Vermejo Ranch. Crazy rich sob. Screw him and his so called good conservation works.

Ted Turner is no friend of the regular joe.

The article makes me sick, just knowing Ted's true colors. Yeah he donated a bilion dollars to the UN. They want to take away our guns and every other bad thing they stand for.

I got to help the youth bighorn sheep hunter on the Fra Cristobal last fall. It was a great hunt and I enjoyed the mountain and the experience of just being able to step foot on the property. Not a lot of people do.

 

[DW]

Was kinda leanin the same way stoney, which is why I posed my question earlier.

 

[greatwestern]

That is GREAT news Stoney, if it holds...And absolutely true about the "hypocrisy", the guy's actions seem to be the epitome of oxymoronic no

With that said, there is no denying that the dude possesses some of the best country in our state, for better (in some cases) or for worse (likewise)

 

[cosmic_cowboy]

There is no question Vermejo is the Jewl of the state... but it was before TT owned it... WS Gorley re introduced Elk there from Wyoming in a trade for Turkeys and they re populated the state of NM and surounding areas with the Elk we have today ! TT had nada to do with it ! It was split and now we have the Valle Vidal open to the public, but Wolves can destroy both Jewls VV and Vermejo !!
Jack

 

[greatwestern]

Dont forget that the RCCLA holds close to a hundred grand directly adjacent acreage on the west side...the whole comprises a true jewel of New Mexico high country

Like as been said before, for better or for worse

**NO WOLVES**

Gotta enough imagrant hippies breeding frikken hybrids around here

 

[nmwapiti]

>There is no question Vermejo is
>the Jewl of the state...
>but it was before TT
>owned it... WS Gorley re
>introduced Elk there from Wyoming
>in a trade for Turkeys
>and they re populated the
>state of NM and surounding
>areas with the Elk we
>have today ! TT had
>nada to do with it
>! It was split and
>now we have the Valle
>Vidal open to the public,
>but Wolves can destroy both
>Jewls VV and Vermejo !!
>
>Jack

William H Bartlett reintroduced elk at Vermejo, way before Gorely owned the place. About 100 years ago or so. Valle Vidal came about when Penzoil owned it. They donated the Valle Vidal in exchange for a tax break. Ted bought the place from Penzoil, immediately got rid of the cattle and the elk flourished. So Ted actually had quite a bit to do with what the place is now. And every surrounding ranch has benefitted from it in a major way.

 

[greatwestern]

And replaced the cattle with bison...is there any real difference anymore?

The introduced 'pure strain' buff herd currently exists in the high country in far greater numbers than they ever did historically

Ya gotta take it for what it is now, like most of western game populations... pretty much a fabrication based on an old romanticized idea(l)

Que no?

 

[elkdozer]

Having worked on the Ladder in the late 80's when it was still owned by Gerald Lyda I saw what a great all around ranch it was then: Elk, Deer, Lions, Bison, and yes Cattle. all were kept in a really nice balence.
Teddy and fine WIFE BARF BARF take over and remove all cattle to allow the Bison to roam free again unchecked. and in a few short years the place was overgrazed all in the name of CONSERVATION.

Thanks for not renewing this Jerks wolf permits.
Now some other States need to start whackin the wolves!!!!!!!

 

[JFBNORTHERNHUNTER]

Actually here is the summary on Elk in New Mexico based of New Mexico Game and Fish and what I learned from a wildlife biologist. Before 1900, there were two subspecies of elk in New Mexico: the Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) and the Merriam's elk (Cervus elaphus merriami). Merriam's elk were once found from Arizona to southwestern Oklahoma, but were hunted to extinction by humans by the early 1900s. Actually in 1910 15 elk from Yellowstone where stocked in Bartlett Ranch (Vermejo), which was from a tread for turkey. In 1911, territorial game warden releases 12 more elk in Sangre de Cristo Mountains. Over the next few years New Mexico began to reintroduce elk in to the state. Twelve animals from Colorado were introduced near Raton and Las Vegas, and fifty animals from Yellowstone National Park were introduced near Pecos and in San Miguel County. All the reintroduced elk were the subspecies Cervus elaphus nelsoni. The state elk population has recovered steadily since. In New Mexico The Rocky Mountain elk currently live throughout Merriam's elk's historic range including Raton. The actual historic timeline summery is as follows: (information courtesy of New Mexico Game and Fish, http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us )

1875- A group of 2,000 elk observed in southern New Mexico
1880- Territorial Legislative Assembly prohibits elk hunting May 1 to Sept. 1
1900- Extirpated from southern New Mexico
1903- Declared a game animal
1909- Extirpated from northern New Mexico
1910- Bartlett Ranch (Vermejo) stocks 15 elk from Yellowstone
1911- Territorial Game Warden releases 12 elk in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains
1912- Elk population estimate was 60
1926- First elk release in Grant County, 25 animals at GOS Ranch
1933- First elk hunts on public lands, Pecos area
1934- Approximately 4,000 elk in the state
1939- Elk released at Mt. Taylor, Philmont Scout Ranch, Tres Piedras and Zuni Mountains
1948- First release in Jemez Mountains, at Clear Creek
1955- Total of 140 elk released on public lands, 160 released into Class A parks
1956- 213 elk released on public lands, 356 released on private lands
1958- Elk population estimated at 8,000
1966- Last elk release recorded, Cimarron Canyon Wildlife Area
1967- Elk population estimated at 12,000
1970s- Hunting conducted under regional approach
1981- Unit system adopted to distribute hunting pressure
1982- Elk population estimate reaches 53,000
1994- Harvest of elk exceeds 10,000 animals
1999- Approximately 72,000 elk in New Mexico
1999- Herd reduction approved for 21 management units statewide
And yes I do agree wolves are a bad idea, I don't think todays ecosystem and cycle of life is what it was when they roamed free at one time. After all there is a reason they were killed off and it was because they cause a lot of damage to farmers and wildlife and those that live of the fruits of there work.

 

[NMPaul]

>Actually here is the summary on
>Elk in New Mexico based
>of New Mexico Game and
>Fish and what I learned
>from a wildlife biologist. Before
>1900, there were two subspecies
> of elk in
>New Mexico: the Rocky Mountain
>elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) and
>the Merriam's elk (Cervus elaphus
>merriami). Merriam's elk were once
>found from Arizona to southwestern
>Oklahoma, but were hunted to
>extinction by humans by the
>early 1900s. Actually in 1910
>15 elk from Yellowstone where
>stocked in Bartlett Ranch (Vermejo),
>which was from a tread
>for turkey. In 1911,
>territorial game warden releases 12
>more elk in Sangre de
>Cristo Mountains. Over the next
>few years New Mexico
>began to reintroduce elk in
>to the state. Twelve animals
>from Colorado were introduced near
>Raton and Las Vegas, and
>fifty animals from Yellowstone National
>Park were introduced near Pecos
>and in San Miguel County.
>All the reintroduced elk were
>the subspecies Cervus elaphus
>nelsoni. The state elk population
>has recovered steadily since. In
>New Mexico The Rocky Mountain
>elk currently live throughout Merriam's
>elk's historic range including Raton.
>The actual historic timeline summery
>is as follows: (information courtesy
>of New Mexico Game and
>Fish, http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us )
>
>1875- A group of 2,000 elk
>observed in southern New Mexico
>
>1880- Territorial Legislative Assembly prohibits elk
>hunting May 1 to Sept.
>1
>1900- Extirpated from southern New Mexico
>
>1903- Declared a game animal
>1909- Extirpated from northern New Mexico
>
>1910- Bartlett Ranch (Vermejo) stocks 15
>elk from Yellowstone
>1911- Territorial Game Warden releases 12
>elk in the Sangre de
>Cristo Mountains
>1912- Elk population estimate was 60
>
>1926- First elk release in Grant
>County, 25 animals at GOS
>Ranch
>1933- First elk hunts on public
>lands, Pecos area
>1934- Approximately 4,000 elk in the
>state
>1939- Elk released at Mt. Taylor,
>Philmont Scout Ranch, Tres Piedras
>and Zuni Mountains
>1948- First release in Jemez Mountains,
>at Clear Creek
>1955- Total of 140 elk released
>on public lands, 160 released
>into Class A parks
>1956- 213 elk released on public
>lands, 356 released on private
>lands
>1958- Elk population estimated at 8,000
>
>1966- Last elk release recorded, Cimarron
>Canyon Wildlife Area
>1967- Elk population estimated at 12,000
>
>1970s- Hunting conducted under regional approach
>
>1981- Unit system adopted to distribute
>hunting pressure
>1982- Elk population estimate reaches 53,000
>
>1994- Harvest of elk exceeds 10,000
>animals
>1999- Approximately 72,000 elk in New
>Mexico
>1999- Herd reduction approved for 21
>management units statewide
> And yes I do agree
>wolves are a bad idea,
>I don't think todays ecosystem
>and cycle of life is
>what it was when they
>roamed free at one time.
>After all there is a
>reason they were killed off
>and it was because they
>cause a lot of damage
>to farmers and wildlife and
>those that live of the
>fruits of there work.

That is a neat summary for the state. Thanks for posting it .