Tell me your extreme muley management plan

callsalot

Active Member
Messages
732
Mule deer are in such bad shape across the west something extreme needs to be done IMO to bring them back to better times. If you were the almighty god of game management and could implement any plan you wanted, what would you do to save mule deer? I've posted my thoughts before and yes they are extreme and didn't go over to well. I'm interest in your extreme thoughts to save mule deer?
 
Mule deer as a species is probably just fine. Not in danger or threatened. What your talking about “saving” is an example worth hanging on a wall

Why this never really goes anywhere. If mule deer get the point of needing saved it’s not going to be for hunting. And most who hunt dont understand the opposite perspective.

I guess in short. Don’t expect more resources thrown at it in the future. If there’s still a huntable population that’s always going to be the good enough standard
 
Mule deer as a species is probably just fine. Not in danger or threatened. What your talking about “saving” is an example worth hanging on a wall

Why this never really goes anywhere. If mule deer get the point of needing saved it’s not going to be for hunting. And most who hunt dont understand the opposite perspective.

I guess in short. Don’t expect more resources thrown at it in the future. If there’s still a huntable population that’s always going to be the good enough standard
Mule deer as a species is probably just fine. Not in danger or threatened. What your talking about “saving” is an example worth hanging on a wall

Why this never really goes anywhere. If mule deer get the point of needing saved it’s not going to be for hunting. And most who hunt dont understand the opposite perspective.

I guess in short. Don’t expect more resources thrown at it in the future. If there’s still a huntable population that’s always going to be the good enough standard
I guess that is the a realistic version of how things are? I'm just curious about what folks are willing to do. Here in Oregon 1983 ODFW estimates was 306,000 mule deer, in 2022 it was 162,600. I personally think the spread is larger but that doesn't really matter. Appreciate your realistic view.
 
No speed limits above 30 mph.
No wire fences above 40 inches or lower than 18.
5% of each National Forest above 7000ft elevation will be burned annually.
5% of each BLM district will be sprayed and/or seeded to treat cheat grass invasion.
I like your thinking but I said god of game management not the state police so I'm not sure game management could keep speed limits to 30 mph. I'm not sure where and if game management could enforce the others but all great suggestions.
 
I think the factors other than hunting play much more of a role in the decline of mule deer. I believe winter range habitat and predator control are the deciding factors in whether a herd will flourish or flounder. I don't think this is breaking news. There's nothing you can do about the weather. No matter what liberals say.
 
Do You Recognize HELL-F'N-RIGHT?


Mule deer are in such bad shape across the west something extreme needs to be done IMO to bring them back to better times. If you were the almighty god of game management and could implement any plan you wanted, what would you do to save mule deer? I've posted my thoughts before and yes they are extreme and didn't go over to well. I'm interest in your extreme thoughts to save mule deer?
 
I like your thinking but I said god of game management not the state police so I'm not sure game management could keep speed limits to 30 mph. I'm not sure where and if game management could enforce the others but all great suggestions.

So what you’re really saying is the god of “hunter management,” not game management?

Because what was written would do more for game than changing hunting laws could ever dream.

This is where most people fail. They think they are going to “save mule deer” by restricting what hunters do, when in fact, hunting isn’t causing the mule deer’s issues.

Restricting hunters to save mule deer is like putting a band aid on the paper cut of a cancer patient and thinking it will keep the cancer at bay.

Good luck!
 
Hard to do anything when state game agencies want to repress bucks numbers to help with cwd prevalence overall. They want numbers just so they have enough for a viable population.

We do our part on the little slice of MD habitat we work on, limited numbers of bucks taken and no doe. Some old, barren doe could come out of the herd though to free up some forage for productive doe.
Drought and forage are very important for our area. Winterkill can also be a huge factor.
This year water management will be important, creek is drying up and springs may be dry as well.
We need some monsoon rains.
 
Hard to do anything when state game agencies want to repress bucks numbers to help with cwd prevalence overall. They want numbers just so they have enough for a viable population.

We do our part on the little slice of MD habitat we work on, limited numbers of bucks taken and no doe. Some old, barren doe could come out of the herd though to free up some forage for productive doe.
Drought and forage are very important for our area. Winterkill can also be a huge factor.
This year water management will be important, creek is drying up and springs may be dry as well.
We need some monsoon rains.
Not to divert too much but I would bet there are not too many old barren does out there, if any most places. most wildlife never get old enough to become infertile. not enough that would matter anyway.
 
Kinda Like When Alot Of Hunters SUCKED The BS In Of 100's Of Big Bulls Dieing Of Old Age!

TOTAL F'N BULLSSHHITT Right There As Well!

Then They Come Up With A Cow Elk In The Book Cliffs They Figured Was Over 20 Years Old!

All I Can Say If She Survived All The F'N Cow Hunts They've Had Out There For Umpteen F'N Years She Was One Lucky/Smart Smart SOB!

But immediately The DWR & Others Started Screaming They Must Be 100's Of Them Dieing Of Old Age,BULLSSHHITT!

Another BS Theory They've Started Is We Have So Many Bucks They're Competing For Forage/Food!

That's BULLSSHITT As Well!

Boy Is Niller Gonna Like This Sunday Post!






Not to divert too much but I would bet there are not too many old barren does out there, if any most places. most wildlife never get old enough to become infertile. not enough that would matter anyway.
 
Well if we just wanna talk extreme hunting regulations how about this

5 day seasons
No doe tags period
No youth tags
100% draw only to get a tag
5 year waiting period to apply again
Antler point restrictions for harvest
Triple all prices for tags and applications and make it all non refundable

Make hunting for the average joe so un appealing that most just give up on it all together.

There, that “fix” it?
 
Outlaw Huntin’ fool, epic and go hunt. No doe hunts. More migration studies and then if there is something in the way, move it. Stop killing mule deer in the name of CWD control. States can’t issue more mule deer tags than are bucks alive in the unit and must have accurate population models based on real surveys, and not from sitting at their desk. Archery season doesn’t need to be a month long. Chest grass and junioer eradication plans. I feel better now
 
So what you’re really saying is the god of “hunter management,” not game management?

Because what was written would do more for game than changing hunting laws could ever dream.

This is where most people fail. They think they are going to “save mule deer” by restricting what hunters do, when in fact, hunting isn’t causing the mule deer’s issues.

Restricting hunters to save mule deer is like putting a band aid on the paper cut of a cancer patient and thinking it will keep the cancer at bay.

Good luck!
I totally agree, vehicles kill tons of deer there is no doubt about that. I guess I could have phrased it better. Like if you could tell the fish and game of all western states what to do regarding helping mule deer and they had to do it, what would you tell them. Thanks for helping me clarify my question.
 
Well if we just wanna talk extreme hunting regulations how about this

5 day seasons
No doe tags period
No youth tags
100% draw only to get a tag
5 year waiting period to apply again
Antler point restrictions for harvest
Triple all prices for tags and applications and make it all non refundable

Make hunting for the average joe so un appealing that most just give up on it all together.

There, that “fix” it?
Wow, now even I have to view that as extreme.
 
I saw a big old buck on 89 that got hit north of hatch during the holiday week. There were multiple deer dead between hatch and panguitch. I’d start by slowing down most of the people who live here drive like it’s the autobahn in the early morning and evening.
 
I like em all boys, but not too many suggestions are realistic. There is one easy button we could push. Aggressive predator control. It’s basically the reason mule deer numbers were through the roof 30 years ago, is it a silver bullet, no but it’s an easy starting point. You don’t hear many biologists touting its merits though, you hear a lot of blah blah blah, it won’t really matter, maybe if you do it during fawning. Logical reasoning dictates removing predators will help prey species increase. Biologists have moved away from logic and have their own agendas.
 
I like em all boys, but not too many suggestions are realistic. There is one easy button we could push. Aggressive predator control. It’s basically the reason mule deer numbers were through the roof 30 years ago, is it a silver bullet, no but it’s an easy starting point. You don’t hear many biologists touting its merits though, you hear a lot of blah blah blah, it won’t really matter, maybe if you do it during fawning. Logical reasoning dictates removing predators will help prey species increase. Biologists have moved away from logic and have their own agendas.
The question didn't ask for people to be realistic. It ask for extreme measures from a wildlife management perspective. However, I personally agree predator control is huge in this equation.
 
I keep telling y’all compound 10-80. Worked in the 50s and 60s. That’s why there were so many deer back then. My dad told me back then, they never seen any coyotes or ever heard one sound off. Too bad we will never be able to use it in this f-d up world.
 
I keep telling y’all compound 10-80. Worked in the 50s and 60s. That’s why there were so many deer back then. My dad told me back then, they never seen any coyotes or ever heard one sound off. Too bad we will never be able to use it in this f-d up world.
O.K. I'll bite. What is 10-80? Evidently some type of predator control? Love to hear details.
 
I keep telling y’all compound 10-80. Worked in the 50s and 60s. That’s why there were so many deer back then. My dad told me back then, they never seen any coyotes or ever heard one sound off. Too bad we will never be able to use it in this f-d up world.
Actually pretty amazing history. Want to read a really good book that covers it read “ coyote America “ by Dan Flores
 
But It Killed A Few Magpies & Egg Eating Ravens!

I keep telling y’all compound 10-80. Worked in the 50s and 60s. That’s why there were so many deer back then. My dad told me back then, they never seen any coyotes or ever heard one sound off. Too bad we will never be able to use it in this f-d up world.
 
Move to the basin.

Get a dedicated start a buck contest

Point the finger at everyone else.


Short of kill off your kids and grandkids, all the highway, mcmansion, blah, blah is bullshit.

YOU and the urge to create more of you is #1-30 of what's affected deer. Wasn't anyone else's fault but yours. When you fix your problem, move on to others.
 
Hey Hossy!

You're A Little SORE About The PISSCUTTER Contest!

PONY-UP!

You're Hunting On Basically The Same Tag I Am!

My Fault For What's Happened To The Deer Herd Huh?

You've Been WRONG Before!

But Now You Are As WRONG As You've Ever Been!

Would You Feel Better & Badder If We Had A TINIEST PISSCUTTER Contest As Well?




Move to the basin.

Get a dedicated start a buck contest

Point the finger at everyone else.


Short of kill off your kids and grandkids, all the highway, mcmansion, blah, blah is bullshit.

YOU and the urge to create more of you is #1-30 of what's affected deer. Wasn't anyone else's fault but yours. When you fix your problem, move on to others.
 
Yup google it and you will find out. It was poison they put out in the day to get rid of the coyotes .
They put is out to get rid of ground squirrels........counties mandated you do it and supplied it.....it worked so well that anything that ate the dead squirrels also died....and if they got ate, whatever ate them died........killed 3 times...
they did it for the 60 plus years preceding the ungulate explosion.....
 
But It Killed Some Magpies!

And Some RAVENS!

They put is out to get rid of ground squirrels........counties mandated you do it and supplied it.....it worked so well that anything that ate the dead squirrels also died....and if they got ate, whatever ate them died........killed 3 times...
they did it for the 60 plus years preceding the ungulate explosion.....
 
Ban any social media post with field photos
Issue less doe tags
Mandatory reporting
Remove CWD for any management plan
More high fencing on Hwys
2 helpers per hunter, no exceptions
Primitive only
No OTC
No tag transfers
No guiding
No trail cams
No radios
No spot lighting
No baiting
Increase incentive for predator control

I fixed it!!
 
Ban any social media post with field photos You Won't Be Banning Any Of Mine!
Issue less doe tags Issue NO F'N Doe Tags!
Mandatory reporting How F'N Long Did This Take?
Remove CWD for any management plan What A FUSTERCLUCK!
More high fencing on Hwys Add That Number Up!
2 helpers per hunter, no exceptions Ya,Enforce That!
Primitive only I Wanna Hear The LONG RANGERS WHINE!
No OTC There Already Isn't Any OTC For Deer Here!
No tag transfers Ya!
No guiding That Ain't Happening!
No trail cams Enforce It!
No radios Enforce It!
No spot lighting Enforce It!
No baiting Enforce It!
Increase incentive for predator control That's Already Happened Here & We Have One More Dead Lion!

I fixed it!! No You Didn't,But You've Got A Start!
 
A lot of great info with your responses to my question. Do we dare take it a step further? Some people said a few suggestions that were posted were unrealistic, for this question you didn't have to be realist. But it did say if you were god of game management so that would limit you to things that game managers have control over and for the sake of argument we'll throw in forest land & BLM. But even though they are totally legitimate in their reasoning game managers don't have control over speed limits, Mansions on private property or the internet so I'll leave that out. Here are your categories you mentioned but banning doe hunting was probably the #1 most mention thing..

1. Improvement of winter range/habitat management. Sheet grass/all noxious weed control. Water guzzlers, etc."
2. Predator Control - Mentioned quite a bit. But mainly toward coyotes. How about control of larger predators?? There was mention of OTC cougar tags "is that enough, remember hounds can't be used in every state".
3. Where they have control - Wildlife corridors "over/under passes and more wildlife crossing warnings. Regarding traffic.
4. Season dates both when the hunt occurs and how long and how many season. Draw vs. OTC and wait periods after drawings was mention. No youth tags. No rut hunts.
5. Sex and age restrictions. "No doe hunting, antler point minimum, etc.". stop purposely cropping older bucks for CWD.
6. More accurate population studies and migration path studies.
7. Triple price of tags to lessen more poor hunters. Hey, he mentioned it not me:)
8. Technology - no trail camera's, all archery. I'm not surprised this wasn't mentioned more but should we take a harder look at limiting all our gadgets that have made us more efficient killers? More traditional weapons areas not necessarily seasons?
9. Ban antlers gathering and/or selling.
10. Stop CRP programs.
11. No one mentioned drain the swamp at our states fish and wildlife agencies either. Sorry couldn't help myself:)

I understand that I'm just writing everything you already know.
If mule deer come back then things can become a bit more lenient. How do we push more effectively for these things?????
 
Hey Hossy!

You're A Little SORE About The PISSCUTTER Contest!

PONY-UP!

You're Hunting On Basically The Same Tag I Am!

My Fault For What's Happened To The Deer Herd Huh?

You've Been WRONG Before!

But Now You Are As WRONG As You've Ever Been!

Would You Feel Better & Badder If We Had A TINIEST PISSCUTTER Contest As Well?

No.

I'm honest.

I don't ask folks to do what I won't do(cut tags), nor have a bitched for years about opportunists while having the ultimate opportunist tag, DH.

You are a closeted opportunist, time to come out
 
You Are Asking Folks To Do What You Won't & Don't Do!

Ultimate Opportunist Tag?

Now That's Funny!

Hossy,You Use To Cuss Opportunists Yourself On This Forum!

I've Asked You Several Times Why The Change?

Not One GAWD-DAMNED Have You Ever Answered?

You Do Not Have To Enter The PISSCUTTER Contest!

But Quit BITTCHING About It!

You Don't Have To Play Slot Machines Or Gamble Either!

Nobody Is Gonna Get Rich With The PISSCUTTER Contest!

But We Can All Tell It's Really Bothering You!

You're Welcome To Participate If You'd Like!

But I Can Tell Right Now You & Niller Are Gonna PUSS-OUT!




No.

I'm honest.

I don't ask folks to do what I won't do(cut tags), nor have a bitched for years about opportunists while having the ultimate opportunist tag, DH.

You are a closeted opportunist, time to come out
 
You Are Asking Folks To Do What You Won't & Don't Do!

Ultimate Opportunist Tag?

Now That's Funny!

Hossy,You Use To Cuss Opportunists Yourself On This Forum!

I've Asked You Several Times Why The Change?

Not One GAWD-DAMNED Have You Ever Answered?

You Do Not Have To Enter The PISSCUTTER Contest!

But Quit BITTCHING About It!

You Don't Have To Play Slot Machines Or Gamble Either!

Nobody Is Gonna Get Rich With The PISSCUTTER Contest!

But We Can All Tell It's Really Bothering You!

You're Welcome To Participate If You'd Like!

But I Can Tell Right Now You & Niller Are Gonna PUSS-OUT!

I've been a proud opportunist since the first year the DH program started, so, as usual, you're wrong.


The opposite of bother.

Youve simply further buried any credibility you had in your complaining.

Don't mean jack to me, I'll be out enjoying oppurtunity
 
A lot of great info with your responses to my question. Do we dare take it a step further? Some people said a few suggestions that were posted were unrealistic, for this question you didn't have to be realist. But it did say if you were god of game management so that would limit you to things that game managers have control over and for the sake of argument we'll throw in forest land & BLM. But even though they are totally legitimate in their reasoning game managers don't have control over speed limits, Mansions on private property or the internet so I'll leave that out. Here are your categories you mentioned but banning doe hunting was probably the #1 most mention thing..

1. Improvement of winter range/habitat management. Sheet grass/all noxious weed control. Water guzzlers, etc."
2. Predator Control - Mentioned quite a bit. But mainly toward coyotes. How about control of larger predators?? There was mention of OTC cougar tags "is that enough, remember hounds can't be used in every state".
3. Where they have control - Wildlife corridors "over/under passes and more wildlife crossing warnings. Regarding traffic.
4. Season dates both when the hunt occurs and how long and how many season. Draw vs. OTC and wait periods after drawings was mention. No youth tags. No rut hunts.
5. Sex and age restrictions. "No doe hunting, antler point minimum, etc.". stop purposely cropping older bucks for CWD.
6. More accurate population studies and migration path studies.
7. Triple price of tags to lessen more poor hunters. Hey, he mentioned it not me:)
8. Technology - no trail camera's, all archery. I'm not surprised this wasn't mentioned more but should we take a harder look at limiting all our gadgets that have made us more efficient killers? More traditional weapons areas not necessarily seasons?
9. Ban antlers gathering and/or selling.
10. Stop CRP programs.
11. No one mentioned drain the swamp at our states fish and wildlife agencies either. Sorry couldn't help myself:)

I understand that I'm just writing everything you already know.
If mule deer come back then things can become a bit more lenient. How do we push more effectively for these things?????
The only thing that I am completely against is limiting youth opportunity.

Youth are the FUTURE of conservation.

Instead let’s do a age cap of 60, if you’re pass that maybe stick to gardening 🤣
 
Are you Entering The PISSCUTTER Contest?

Or PUSSIN Out?

I've been a proud opportunist since the first year the DH program started, so, as usual, you're wrong.


The opposite of bother.

Youve simply further buried any credibility you had in your complaining.

Don't mean jack to me, I'll be out enjoying oppurtunity
 
Ban any social media post with field photos
Issue less doe tags
Mandatory reporting
Remove CWD for any management plan
More high fencing on Hwys
2 helpers per hunter, no exceptions
Primitive only
No OTC
No tag transfers
No guiding
No trail cams
No radios
No spot lighting
No baiting
Increase incentive for predator control

I fixed it!!
Well at least you didn't hold back:)
 
You've OUT-BITTCHED Me On Money In Hunting For Like What Seems Forever!

Yes!

Money Is One Of The Reasons/Issues!

Put it With The Other 50+ Reasons & You'll Have A Start!

Does Your COVETED DH Deer Tag Cost More Money?

Does it Cost More & Offers Less Deer Killed In A 3 year Period Than If You Were Pulling A General Tag Damn Near Every Year?

You're Always BITTCHING About Tags Getting CUT!

Which Would Not Of effected You Yourself Much Doing What You're Doing!










Take a breath and realize how silly you look after all these years bitching about money in hunting
 
Western States agreement to end NR hunting. Hunt, fund, vote, volunteer, and make better the state you live in.

I think there are different solutions for different places but it's too easy just to hunt another state when yours sucks instead of concentrating on fixing localized problems. You can't manage the Bighorns in Wyoming the same way you do the Cascades in Washington.

Stay home and figure out how to fix up your own house.---SS
 
You've OUT-BITTCHED Me On Money In Hunting For Like What Seems Forever!

Yes!

Money Is One Of The Reasons/Issues!

Put it With The Other 50+ Reasons & You'll Have A Start!

Does Your COVETED DH Deer Tag Cost More Money?

Does it Cost More & Offers Less Deer Killed In A 3 year Period Than If You Were Pulling A General Tag Damn Near Every Year?

You're Always BITTCHING About Tags Getting CUT!

Which Would Not Of effected You Yourself Much Doing What You're Doing!

The bow hunt isn't for a month.

I'll be glad to take your video
 
A lot of great info with your responses to my question. Do we dare take it a step further? Some people said a few suggestions that were posted were unrealistic, for this question you didn't have to be realist. But it did say if you were god of game management so that would limit you to things that game managers have control over and for the sake of argument we'll throw in forest land & BLM. But even though they are totally legitimate in their reasoning game managers don't have control over speed limits, Mansions on private property or the internet so I'll leave that out. Here are your categories you mentioned but banning doe hunting was probably the #1 most mention thing..

1. Improvement of winter range/habitat management. Sheet grass/all noxious weed control. Water guzzlers, etc."
2. Predator Control - Mentioned quite a bit. But mainly toward coyotes. How about control of larger predators?? There was mention of OTC cougar tags "is that enough, remember hounds can't be used in every state".
3. Where they have control - Wildlife corridors "over/under passes and more wildlife crossing warnings. Regarding traffic.
4. Season dates both when the hunt occurs and how long and how many season. Draw vs. OTC and wait periods after drawings was mention. No youth tags. No rut hunts.
5. Sex and age restrictions. "No doe hunting, antler point minimum, etc.". stop purposely cropping older bucks for CWD.
6. More accurate population studies and migration path studies.
7. Triple price of tags to lessen more poor hunters. Hey, he mentioned it not me:)
8. Technology - no trail camera's, all archery. I'm not surprised this wasn't mentioned more but should we take a harder look at limiting all our gadgets that have made us more efficient killers? More traditional weapons areas not necessarily seasons?
9. Ban antlers gathering and/or selling.
10. Stop CRP programs.
11. No one mentioned drain the swamp at our states fish and wildlife agencies either. Sorry couldn't help myself:)

I understand that I'm just writing everything you already know.
If mule deer come back then things can become a bit more lenient. How do we push more effectively for these things?????
Advocacy where it matters rather than bitc hing on a hunting forum would be where I would start.

The days of buying a tag and calling it good have been over for a decade or two.

Having hunters spending as much time doing positive work for mule deer, elk, sheep, etc as they do hunting. That includes vacation days spent on advancing policy, working with decision makers, etc etc.


News flash those things are NOT someone else's job...its on all of us.
 
Western States agreement to end NR hunting. Hunt, fund, vote, volunteer, and make better the state you live in.

I think there are different solutions for different places but it's too easy just to hunt another state when yours sucks instead of concentrating on fixing localized problems. You can't manage the Bighorns in Wyoming the same way you do the Cascades in Washington.

Stay home and figure out how to fix up your own house.---SS
Agreed, there are some common issues amongst the states but there also needs to be some individual approaches added to them.
 
Advocacy where it matters rather than bitc hing on a hunting forum would be where I would start.

The days of buying a tag and calling it good have been over for a decade or two.

Having hunters spending as much time doing positive work for mule deer, elk, sheep, etc as they do hunting. That includes vacation days spent on advancing policy, working with decision makers, etc etc.


News flash those things are NOT someone else's job...its on all of us.
Good advice. One reason I started this thread was every year people get on this site and ask for advice and every time we all say it's not what it used to be and is getting worst in that area. Then we ***** about how bad that area or state has gotten and they sound like its the only one. Truth is it's worse in all mule deer areas. So here is a chance for all of us "including me" that gripe about it to say what we might do to help it. Thought it would be interesting to see everyone opinions.
 
Ban any social media post with field photos
Issue less doe tags
Mandatory reporting
Remove CWD for any management plan
More high fencing on Hwys
2 helpers per hunter, no exceptions
Primitive only
No OTC
No tag transfers
No guiding
No trail cams
No radios
No spot lighting
No baiting
Increase incentive for predator control

I fixed it!!
Gotta really watch out for those trail cams! I was nearly killed by one.
 
I have a friend that has one of the largest collections of giant Mule Deer, he also has one of the largest collections of big Mule Deer Sheds. I have to laugh today’s trophy hunter thinks a 200” Mule Deer is A giant. A 180 class Deer today is a real shooter. I will be honest I can’t even get excited about it. We push every unit now days to over harvest, for a Buck to make it to 4 years old is very tough. The old Meat Eater has made a fortune on pushing his oppurtunity hunting, young hunters don’t really want to wait for a good tag, they want to hunt and I do not blame them. If I had kids today, I would not get them into hunting, the wait between tags is to long these days. It won’t be long until you can call Wade and order up a big old 220 apple fed Buck.
 
I have a friend that has one of the largest collections of giant Mule Deer, he also has one of the largest collections of big Mule Deer Sheds. I have to laugh today’s trophy hunter thinks a 200” Mule Deer is A giant. A 180 class Deer today is a real shooter. I will be honest I can’t even get excited about it. We push every unit now days to over harvest, for a Buck to make it to 4 years old is very tough. The old Meat Eater has made a fortune on pushing his oppurtunity hunting, young hunters don’t really want to wait for a good tag, they want to hunt and I do not blame them. If I had kids today, I would not get them into hunting, the wait between tags is to long these days. It won’t be long until you can call Wade and order up a big old 220 apple fed Buck.
Can’t say you’re wrong. Hard to imagine but you are right.
 
Right On hawk!

The OPPOR-F'N-TUNISTS See A 140" In Todays World They Think It's World Class!

You Are RIGHT-ON That It's Rare For A Buck To Make It To 4 Years Of Age!

The NEW DRATville MATURE!

I have a friend that has one of the largest collections of giant Mule Deer, he also has one of the largest collections of big Mule Deer Sheds. I have to laugh today’s trophy hunter thinks a 200” Mule Deer is A giant. A 180 class Deer today is a real shooter. I will be honest I can’t even get excited about it. We push every unit now days to over harvest, for a Buck to make it to 4 years old is very tough. The old Meat Eater has made a fortune on pushing his oppurtunity hunting, young hunters don’t really want to wait for a good tag, they want to hunt and I do not blame them. If I had kids today, I would not get them into hunting, the wait between tags is to long these days. It won’t be long until you can call Wade and order up a big old 220 apple fed Buck.
 
No more managing for "opportunity ". Every tag sold is calculated as a dead deer.

Large scale prescribed burning practices get set into place.

No more grazing on public lands.

No shooting bucks less than four years old. Mandatory harvest check in.

Every single buck tag is auctioned, no matter how good or how bad.
 
Western States agreement to end NR hunting. Hunt, fund, vote, volunteer, and make better the state you live in.

I think there are different solutions for different places but it's too easy just to hunt another state when yours sucks instead of concentrating on fixing localized problems. You can't manage the Bighorns in Wyoming the same way you do the Cascades in Washington.

Stay home and figure out how to fix up your own house.---SS
How does eliminating NR hunters fix the deer problem? IT doesnt do a dang thing. A tag is a tag, the deer dont care if its a resident or NR hunter when they get shot, they are dead. And it doesnt matter of 1,000 tags if 999 are Res and 1 is NR or even if its 500 and 500.
 
No more managing for "opportunity ". Every tag sold is calculated as a dead deer.

Large scale prescribed burning practices get set into place.

No more grazing on public lands.

No shooting bucks less than four years old. Mandatory harvest check in.

Every single buck tag is auctioned, no matter how good or how bad.

Your new job is $fw spokesman?
 
No more managing for "opportunity ". Every tag sold is calculated as a dead deer.

Large scale prescribed burning practices get set into place.

No more grazing on public lands.

No shooting bucks less than four years old. Mandatory harvest check in.

Every single buck tag is auctioned, no matter how good or how bad.
You forgot to add that everything needs to be high fenced.
 
loss of habitat and predator control. as populations of humans grow controlling those two factors gets harder and harder. people want to live where the deer live and want to see all the pretty little coyotes, bobcats and lions running all over the place. God help us all!
humanity taking over the landscape creates smaller parcels of land for the deer to thrive on and makes them more predictable. the predators job becomes much easier.
controlling the hunting makes the situation livable until its not. does not fix the real problems
 
That Oughta Get A Reply From Hossy!

Oh Wait A Second!

It Already Did!


No more managing for "opportunity ". Every tag sold is calculated as a dead deer.

Large scale prescribed burning practices get set into place.

No more grazing on public lands.

No shooting bucks less than four years old. Mandatory harvest check in.

Every single buck tag is auctioned, no matter how good or how bad.
 
2lumpy an old boy from Cedar City stopped by here yesterday he loves to hunt and Mule Deer is his choice. He was telling me about the meetings and not adjusting tags for winter range loss which has also resulted in overharvest
 
2lumpy an old boy from Cedar City stopped by here yesterday he loves to hunt and Mule Deer is his choice. He was telling me about the meetings and not adjusting tags for winter range loss which has also resulted in overharvest
I’ve giving up pointing fingers and offering suggestions hawbill. I try hard to just report what I’ve seen and tried to do over the years…… as a bias historian, of sorts.

Hoping for the best but fearful of the worst, if you know what I mean. 😁😁
 
Just curious??....why do away with CRP?......other than it is terribly abused....
1st - it's a Govt' run program......
2nd -to protect and help the does, in my opinion, no matter what's done, if it's central focus is not in helping does stay healthy and raise those fawns to reproductive age...it will fail.....Around here, in the 70's and 80's there were alfalfa and cornfields everywhere.....There were alot of fawns born in the those alfalfa fields. Lot of food, easy cover, lots of does. 1985 CPR came along and what used to be an alfalfa field is a chico brush/cheatgrass/russian knapweed choked piece of dirt that holds very little value to a deer.

So, If I were the almighty god of game management and could implement any plan I wanted, its one of the things I would do to save mule deer.
 
1st - it's a Govt' run program......
2nd -to protect and help the does, in my opinion, no matter what's done, if it's central focus is not in helping does stay healthy and raise those fawns to reproductive age...it will fail.....Around here, in the 70's and 80's there were alfalfa and cornfields everywhere.....There were alot of fawns born in the those alfalfa fields. Lot of food, easy cover, lots of does. 1985 CPR came along and what used to be an alfalfa field is a chico brush/cheatgrass/russian knapweed choked piece of dirt that holds very little value to a deer.

So, If I were the almighty god of game management and could implement any plan I wanted, its one of the things I would do to save mule deer.
Compound 1080 quit mid 70's.........you were seeing the results of NO predators.....
 
Where we live sure has an impact on the comments. Most of the country I hunt has fewer people now than it did in the 1930's. The deer don't really migrate; maybe a few miles but no real corridors or McMansions. But there's decadent brush and cheatgrass is a real problem. And predators are a HUGE problem. That said, I agree with much of what has been said. Here's my list in order of priority:

No doe hunts.

Reduce harvest pressure; shorter seasons, and whatever is needed. It'll vary by area and state.

Kill all the predators we possibly can. If you are a true mule deer lover and advocate, you need to reduce the things that harm them. Coyotes, lions, bears and even avian predators if possible. I'm old enough I remember putting out 1080 horseback and riding back through fields of dead rodents. And 1080 did kill eagles, but DDT was also a big problem as to why eagle numbers were down. I used that stuff too. Lordy I'm dating myself.

Forget CWD as a management issue.

Balance the elk population with the mule deer resource. There are too many elk in many areas.

Enhance habitat. Burns don't work in many areas because of cheatgrass encroachment, but do everything we can to enhance food, water, cover and space. There are still some huge opportunities for habitat enhancement.

I'm ready for a new conservation model. Seriously, it appears to me that the "conservation" groups that have the greatest success appeal to the masses with slanted TV commercials and then use the money to sue the feds or state agencies. I think we should copy that model. (See wolves and grizzlies, etc) Buy TV ads that show predators gruesomely killing fawns and adult deer, starving deer, etc. Solicit memberships and donations, then use the $$ to file suit after suit, appeal after appeal, and fight, fight fight. Seems to be the modern model of success.

Require wildlife managers to meaningfully interact with their publics. Most folks in charge of wildlife management have stopped interacting with hunters and landowners and only talk to and listen to other agency folks. That is a terrible model that needs to be fixed. Even if we are asked to provide input, their ears and minds are not truly open. (There are some good ones, but the pendulum has swung away from us for years.)

No landowner licenses. No transferable licenses. No raffle licenses. No special hunts for things like One Shot and others. Those systems have been abused too much.

No trail cameras, no drones, no planes, no baiting. And of course no high fences.

Enhanced and strengthen penalties for those who violate game laws. Confiscate what we can, big fines, loss of hunting privileges and serious time behind bars. (Maybe stockades in the town square, too.)

Enhance public access. This might mean leases, land swaps to "square up" larger parcels of public lands, and more.

That'll do for now, but I am sure there are more. I'm old and can't remember everything at one time..
 

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