Thank ___(don't want to offend the gentiles), its expo time!!

Coues, I tend to agree with your assessment.
We all like to hunt and most are civil in debate.

I was too until called a "boy".

I'm rolling up on. 50 and don't need to hear that
Crap from anybody.

What tristate is a proponent of is everything
That is wrong with hunting, and for younger
Generations will become more and more exclusionary.

How a capitalist business owner is ok with
The ongoing bailout of private business on
The public dole astounds me. I guess our definition
Of capitalism is different.





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
WW, just know that, that sawed off little runt would never say the things he says to yours, mine, or anybody else's face. He's truly a cowardly little man. The little fat man is just a keyboard troll with no life. I'm mean for Christ sake, how much time does this clown spend arguing on the internet about things that do not concern him in the very least.
It must suck to be him.
 
Your full of crap Wileyboy. You were calling me names on this thread long before I ever called you boy. Quit acting self-righteous because I know the garbage you already said. Take your pills because your age apparently is making you forget how you crap on the people around you. I have always understood how garbage like you can lie to people. I have never understood how garbage like you can lie to yourself.

Shortgun,

You obviously don't know me. I don't post anything on here I wouldn't say right in your face. I am actually known by people personally to be abrasive. If you don't believe me look me up some time. You shouldn't get self-righteous either. I haven't seen you post once anything other than childish name calling on any of these threads.
 
great write up, very well written and expressed.... also a giant waste of time. ##### about Denny Austad and conservation tags all you would like but that money does go back into the state to help with projects. Your ignorance is pretty remarkable, the state does need help with management I will not argue with you on that. Take it to the wildlife board or somewhere productive rather then just one more rant from someone on monster muleys. Im pretty ashamed of myself that i stooped to the level of the "infamous monster muley ##### about everything possible group" but my god someone finally needs to say it....STFU.
 
Hoofin conservation tags such as Mr Austed
Has purchased do in fact go back on the ground
To benefit wildlife.

Convention tags, on the other hand have no such
Strings attached.

Tri I'm done with you.
Peace out.

"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Tri-state,

I'm with you on the priviledge not a right part of the argument.

As far as Utah funneling out so many permits into the expo, I think it is crazy. Like was said at the start of this thread Mossback has made hundreds of thousands and has expanded his operation into AZ and NM and maybe more. Greed and more Greed!

The NAMWC is touted and praised and set up on the hunter's alter like a sacred cow by the state Wildlife Federations and especially the WYWF, NMWF and MTWF. They claim to be the true conservationists when all along they are more like the radical side of conservation movement. Just witness the National Wildlife Federation which all of the states are an affilliate of. Did you realize they are pro wolf and always have been. The state chapters have been back peddling ever since and claim they are not to blame and they point to the NAM that all creatures should be saved and all the predators re-established in all of the west.

MM's own BuzzH is the main mover and shaker of the WF movement in the WYWF and he also is a member of a couple of more pro "average joe resident hunter", anti outfitter and anti private property owner groups.

They want all states to go 90/10 on resident versus non resident tag allocation and they are no doubt the big push behind the Wyoming legislative movement from 80/20 to the above.

All of their membership in all of the state chapters have been brainwashed into believing in their lock step, in unison chorus of hate and vile against outfitters and landowners whom might be blocking a 640 of BLM in the middle of 40 sections of private land. I do support US NM Senator Heinrich's bill to get the government to get easement or build roads around to access more public lands.

Tri-state can attest to Texas and the way it is down there, a large share of high fence but in west TX it is pretty much free range, albeit private property.

I am new to the MM and after one or two posts of BuzzH I had him pegged as a card carrying Wildlife Federation lackey. They all act like the "have nots" versus the "haves".

They forget all about whom provides most of the best habitat and critical creeks, rivers, waters such as dirt tanks, pipelines, drinkers and riparian habitat, alfalfa fields, crops, permanent pastures on the private lands as well as the "public's wildlife" living a big share of their lives on US Forest Service and BlM. lands that make up a huge share of the public lands in the western US.

The NAMWC states that it is the publics wildlife and a few court cases have allowed the states to manage and regulate the wildlife so the states are setting the numbers of non-residents whom can hunt all the while the wildlife live on public land. Thats fine but I think wildlife tags should be more equitable and fair to everyone.

Outfitters and landowner tags are a whole nother argument.
 
"Shortgun,

You obviously don't know me. I don't post anything on here I wouldn't say right in your face. I am actually known by people personally to be abrasive. If you don't believe me look me up some time. You shouldn't get self-righteous either. I haven't seen you post once anything other than childish name calling on any of these threads."

Blah blah blah whatever boy. You're a bitter, cowardly little man and you know it.

Sure, next time I'm driving through Shitholesville TexASS, I'll look you up boy.
 
^^^^exactly^^^^


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-14 AT 03:26PM (MST)[p]Shortgun,

Are you actually Flopgun? At least you admit that I am a man, and that's a lot more than you and Wiley will ever be.
 
>They want all states to go
>90/10 on resident versus non
>resident tag allocation and they
>are no doubt the big
>push behind the Wyoming legislative
>movement from 80/20 to the
>above.

BuzzH is against this bill.


>The NAMWC states that it is
>the publics wildlife and a
>few court cases have allowed
>the states to manage and
>regulate the wildlife so the
>states are setting the numbers
>of non-residents whom can hunt
>all the while the wildlife
>live on public land. Thats
>fine but I think wildlife
>tags should be more equitable
>and fair to everyone.

In Wyoming, by law, the wildlife belongs to the state, trumped only by the endangered species act.
 
>
>>They want all states to go
>>90/10 on resident versus non
>>resident tag allocation and they
>>are no doubt the big
>>push behind the Wyoming legislative
>>movement from 80/20 to the
>>above.
>
>BuzzH is against this bill.
>
>
>>The NAMWC states that it is
>>the publics wildlife and a
>>few court cases have allowed
>>the states to manage and
>>regulate the wildlife so the
>>states are setting the numbers
>>of non-residents whom can hunt
>>all the while the wildlife
>>live on public land. Thats
>>fine but I think wildlife
>>tags should be more equitable
>>and fair to everyone.
>
>In Wyoming, by law, the wildlife
>belongs to the state, trumped
>only by the endangered species
>act.

And in Utah and even in Texas. And probably every other state in the union.
 
But we as citizens should turn these tags over
To a couple private entities, let them set up which
Hoops we need to jump through and let them
Keep the money generated to pay for ##### Cheney
To come tell us all how to hunt.

Sounds like a deal any "smart" man should get behind.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
"But we as citizens should turn these tags over
To a couple private entities, let them set up which
Hoops we need to jump through and let them
Keep the money generated to pay for ##### Cheney
To come tell us all how to hunt.

Sounds like a deal any "smart" man should get behind."


You were doing it for other people long before SFW ever existed.
 
Care to elaborate?? Or are you talking out your starfish as usual.






"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-14 AT 07:16AM (MST)[p]What do you think the fur market is? I will admit ##### Cheney probably doesn't make speeches for them but its the same situation. States turn over licenses and permits to a small segment of the population who gets to profit off of YOUR wildlife. The trappers and furriers decide what hoops you have to jump through if you want some of these skins and they profit on an international market. Millions and millions of dollars of your money just getting sucked right out of the country and they don't even save the meat. That's right they even waste the meat. I don't see how they sleep at night.
 
>>
>>>They want all states to go
>>>90/10 on resident versus non
>>>resident tag allocation and they
>>>are no doubt the big
>>>push behind the Wyoming legislative
>>>movement from 80/20 to the
>>>above.
>>
>>BuzzH is against this bill.
>>
>>
>>>The NAMWC states that it is
>>>the publics wildlife and a
>>>few court cases have allowed
>>>the states to manage and
>>>regulate the wildlife so the
>>>states are setting the numbers
>>>of non-residents whom can hunt
>>>all the while the wildlife
>>>live on public land. Thats
>>>fine but I think wildlife
>>>tags should be more equitable
>>>and fair to everyone.
>>
>>In Wyoming, by law, the wildlife
>>belongs to the state, trumped
>>only by the endangered species
>>act.
>
>And in Utah and even in
>Texas. And probably every other
>state in the union.



Do a little light reading, SFW is VERY much opposed to this concept as well. So while you all are in SLC rubbing shoulders with the alpha males this weekend, grow a set and bring up that conversation. SFW is pro PRIVATE OWNERSHIP of wildlife.

Tony, you evil bastard!!(Been a long time man, hope Alaska is treating you well).

I started it, the post holds up. Denny et al have dropped roughly a million dollars on AI. I frequent the place, THERE IS ZERO difference in habitat on that rock. The operating budget might be bigger, but the grass and sagebrush have not changed. Nor has any other habitat in Utah. I know the average SFW dude is out there busting his azz cutting and planting, and they deserve cudos, but as Al Gore has taught us, global warming(aka pine beetle) is destroying forest way to fast to counter act.

As for, "every year there is more interest", or "Richfield was sold out" BS, wonderful. Here is an idea, have a banquet with NO WELFARE TAGS, see how many dudes show up. Again, if Denny, and his ilk are such heros of conservation, they can still scratch a check, EVEN IF THERE IS NO REWARD for doing so. "it is more popular", is the excuse OBAMA uses. Food stamps are more popular too, as is government disability. People like government handouts, that they show up in increasing numbers doesn't mean the expo and SFW are a good thing, it means guys love the chance to draw a $5 dollar tag. No one yet can tell me why the state can't do a $5 tag raffle without SFW. WHY DO WE NEED THEM TO DO IT?? The state can do it, and can keep 100% of the money. We can do it on KSL.com, or MM if they don't want to set up a site. I don't understand the logic in handing over money(tags) to sfw, then SFW takes the money, skims it, then hands some back, and the DWR helps advertise for SFW(check your expo add, DWR sponsored). It is the best scam going.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Ha Ha, tri you forgot commercial fishing as well.

Outstanding. You are going to equate coyote
Trapping with a Henry Mtn. Deer tag.


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Please explain the difference. Just because you want one more than the other doesn't mean it is different. Are you a speciest?
 
I get $50.00 to kill a coyote. No limit no season.
I can catch multiple fish per day, unlimited licenses.
Mink are farmed. Skunks, muskrat compared to
A limited entry big game hunt??

C'mon tri.

Idea!! Give the expo skunk and coyote hunts to
Auction if there's no difference.


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
And there were bobcat selling for over a thousand dollars this year. See now you get shown that this has always gone on and there is no difference in principle. But you want to split hairs over how much money it is now and we can all see that you are right back to class warfare. For you it isn't the principles but instead money and your own selfishness.
 
For a businessman you sure struggle with
Basic supply, demand principles.

So if I'M PAID $50.00 to kill something
Vs having to pay. 300k to hunt a pet deer
On Antelope Island there's no difference?!

You seriously trying to tell me that??





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Not with the principles. That is what you were arguing about and not the comparative dollars. Sure everything costs different prices but that isn't what has set you guys off and you know it. You have been crying about the principle of the state letting a private industry profit off of YOUR supposed property. GO back and read you post number 112. You weren't crying about the amount of money then you were complaining about the principle of the matter and you know it.


Look if you want to start crying about the amounts of money that's fine. Should it be less or more that's up to the purchasers. But don't start acting like that was your argument from the beginning.
 
Close tri , there may be hope.

Stick with me here.

The analogy you used to offset the NA model
Argument was fur and trapping.

My argument all along had been giving two private
Entities, public, HIGHLY restricted, HUGHLY demanded
Tags. Your argument is flawed and the point
I've been trying to make to you is even though
Private entities profit from commercial enterprises
Such as fishing or fur, these entities are not affecting
Or demanding the public do certain things to participate
In this pursuit of fish or fur bearer. If I want to kill
A coyote I hop in my truck and go. As long as sustainable
Practices are used to ensure populations have at it.

Here is my problem with what ANY org that auctions tags does.
They artificially inflate demand through high age class management
And severe limitations. Why do you think we kill
Cow elk the way they do in Utah?? To stockpile bulls
For wealth tags, convention tags and bonus point holders.
Do you understand the concept of fecundity tri??
Wealth tags in the amount sold in Utah are evil
For the fact of management alone.

You do understand the difference between conservation
Tags and wealth tags right tri?? Conservation tags
Benefit wildlife by a 90% return that goes on the
Ground.

Convention tags on the other hand are more evil.
MDF and SFW are contracted to receive 200 tags
Regardless of populations. If public draw tags are
Cut back due to populations the public takes the
Hit not the expo, they get their 200 tags.

Monetarily SFW and MDF would not commit to
Returning one penny obtained by the use of these
200 permits, not a penny. They didn't have to disclose
Where this money went or who used it for consulting
Fees.

Recently a few people that you say lose made
Headway in asking for a real audit and got SFW
And MDF to commit a percentage of this money go to
Benefit wildlife and not their own wallets or legislators
On the hill.

You may think I'm selfish or just a crybaby.
Personally I've been pretty much guaranteed
The elk tag I want for the past three years. I can draw this
Year if I wish. If somebody came to me right this
Second and said bonus points hurt management
And feed in to Dons pyramid scheme, I'd agree
And chuck every one of my points to go to
A straight luck of the draw system. I'm no more
Entitled than a 12 year old kid on his first hunt.
But this is what has been sold here and many inch
Obsessed freaks can't see that it's a problem.

I don't agree with Don Peay on much, but he is one smart
Sumbitch and one hell of a salesman to get so many to
Cut not only their own throats but to also do it to future generations.






"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
>Not with the principles. That
>is what you were arguing
>about and not the comparative
>dollars. Sure everything costs
>different prices but that isn't
>what has set you guys
>off and you know it.
> You have been crying
>about the principle of the
>state letting a private industry
>profit off of YOUR supposed
>property. GO back and
>read you post number 112.
> You weren't crying about
>the amount of money then
>you were complaining about the
>principle of the matter and
>you know it.
>
>
>Look if you want to start
>crying about the amounts of
>money that's fine. Should
>it be less or more
>that's up to the purchasers.
> But don't start acting
>like that was your argument
>from the beginning.

So, does that delineate your class warfare accusations? Is it about the money or isn't it?
 
"The analogy you used to offset the NA model
Argument was fur and trapping."

Actually I am not trying to offset the NA model. I do not claim that auctioning the tags does so and I am not arguing that the fur industry does either.

As for your coyote analogy you keep hanging up on one species and there is a lot more in the fur business than one type of vermin in your state. As for how much demand there is I guarantee there is a lot more money in furs than the few deer tags that are auctioned and given away at the expo.

And now we are back to the class warfare by calling them wealth tags. You played your hand now. Yes your state is trying to raise the value of certain tags. Yes it is so they can make more money. DO you think your state wants to work harder producing smaller animals that they have more overhead in for less money????? Hell no. Just like any business they need to maximize the income that they make off of selling as few units as possible. Basically your mad that your state is trying to operate as a business, WHICH IS EXACTLY HOW IT SHOULD OPERATE. How good do you think the hunting would be if the state were bankrupt?

"Convention tags on the other hand are more evil.
MDF and SFW are contracted to receive 200 tags
Regardless of populations. If public draw tags are
Cut back due to populations the public takes the
Hit not the expo, they get their 200 tags."

If you want the public's tags to get the respect of the expo tags then its time for the public to bring as much or more money to the table per tag as the auction tags. If you think a deer tag worth $300 is going to get the respect of a deer tag that they know will sell for $10,000 then there is no helping you.

You keep bringing up Don Peay and I am not protecting him or arguing for his cause so I am not sure what your point is there.
 
"Is it about the money or isn't it?"


Damn straight its about the money. The difference is I don't care who pays it. If it takes 200 rich dudes to come up with a billion dollars to insure the future of the mule deer that is great. If it means jamming the entire public for a billion dollars to do it that is fine with me. You won't get it done by offering underpriced tags to the public, guaranteed. You show me a plan where the general public is going to make a billion dollars for wildlife in Utah and I will say lets start giving the deer tags away for free. Until then the deer have to max out their value in a capitalist economy.
 
Problem with that is it is unAmerican. The PEOPLE of each state own the animals. To sell them to the elite and take them away from the people is not right. It is not commie pinko, it is not capitalism. It is the rule of law. The people of Utah should raise a stink with elected officials who can control your DNR. Corruption and bribery are Don's forte.
 
200 rich dudes??? Won't have to worry
Much about hunting then. Without the backing
Of hunters and the non hunting public, hunting
Will be a thing of the past.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
And see that is where you are wrong. Once the non-hunting public have a fiscal stake in the sustainable killing of the deer they will back it. This is my point you have to make it worth money to a large population.
 
"Problem with that is it is unAmerican. The PEOPLE of each state own the animals."

If its as simple as that then there wouldn't be any hunting at all. The people who don't want hunting could say they own the animals and the government is selling them at a profit to people now and ignoring their ownership. See this is the problem with NACM. Its basically a bunch of feel good propaganda that really gets et aside when it comes down to the nut cutting.

" To sell them to the elite and take them away from the people is not right."

Why because you say? Funny nobody had a problem for the last century when it was a pelt.

"It is not commie pinko, it is not capitalism. It is the rule of law."

And the law says you can sell these permits. The law doesn't say one little thing saying the permits can't be sold.
 
Actually the law does have requirements for selling big and migratory game.

Your philosophy on hunting is alive and well in the UK as we speak Tri. You think it will be different here?? California?? HA HA!! You are delusional.

You still skirt past the issue of furbearers being basically an opportunity for all pursuit. vs Utah big game hunting being for sale to the highest bidder or a 20 year wait in line.

We started down your road back in 94, we've spent more on habitat and God knows what than all western states combined. Where is the return on this investment?? We've lost almost two thirds of our deer and deer hunters.










"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
"Actually the law does have requirements for selling big and migratory game."

Never said they didn't. Not sure what your point is.

"Your philosophy on hunting is alive and well in the UK as we speak Tri. You think it will be different here?? California?? HA HA!! You are delusional."

Wait a minute haven't you said if we go down this road that is the end of hunting but now you state hunting to be alive and well in the UK? Can you make up your mind please?

"You still skirt past the issue of furbearers being basically an opportunity for all pursuit. vs Utah big game hunting being for sale to the highest bidder or a 20 year wait in line."

I haven't skirted anything. I AM THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT IT UP. There are people who can't afford a bobcat tag, just as there are people who can't afford the AI tag. If that is your goal come up with a plan work hard make the money and buy what you want. IT TAKES EFFORT. Some people have the drive and some people don't. I guess for you its easier to try and cry enough to get what you want instead of work for it.

"We started down your road back in 94, we've spent more on habitat and God knows what than all western states combined. Where is the return on this investment?? We've lost almost two thirds of our deer and deer hunters."

I guess you must be excluding Texas from "western states" because Utah couldn't hold a lit fart's flame to the amount of money we spend annually on wildlife habitat.
 
Wait a minute haven't you said if we go down this road that is the end of hunting but now you state hunting to be alive and well in the UK? Can you make up your mind please?

Dude you have some serious comprehension
Deficiencies.

If you think hunting in the UK is ideal, you don't
Get out much.

For the LAST time Tri, and say it with me numbnuts,
I have no problem with rich people. This ain't about
Them. Hear that?? I have no issue with the wealthy.

I do have a problem with any group that receives
Special advantages to a publicly owned resource.
Wether it's Antelope Island State Park, SFW, MDF
Or mother Mary's sisters of the poor.

As much as you and your brother Don would like it
To be different, hunting is pure socialism. Once it's not
Kiss it goodbye.


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
"If you think hunting in the UK is ideal, you don't
Get out much."

I didn't claim it to be "ideal" I simply stated you are flip-flopping in your position. One minute hunting is gone the next its is going to be like hunting somewhere else. Just make up your mind boy.

"I have no problem with rich people."


Really? Then why bring them up? Seriously. You bring them up. Why?

"I do have a problem with any group that receives
Special advantages to a publicly owned resource.
Wether it's Antelope Island State Park, SFW, MDF
Or mother Mary's sisters of the poor."

And I want to know why you decide this now when the fur industry has done it for decades? Answer that. I want you to actually answer that question.


"As much as you and your brother Don would like it
To be different, hunting is pure socialism. Once it's not
Kiss it goodbye."

Hooooooooooly Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat! You finally said it. I actually commend you greatly on doing so. You are actually making steps towards being a man. You are actually being honest about your beliefs. Yes this system right now has made hunting a socialist foothold in a capitalist land. I have been saying this for years. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY IT IS FAILING! Now quit with this kiss it goodbye junk because there are nations all over this planet that do not run their wildlife in a socialist model and they have PLENTY of hunting.

Lastly I would like to state that I find it amusing you still deny that class warfare is not a part of this argument but if you study socialism you will see THATS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS!
 
Exactly where does mother Mary's sisters of the poor
Fit in to class envy?? Utah State Parks?? Class
Envy? Again it's you that is trying to push that bullcrap
Not me.

Please site one example where I HAVE NOT
Professed my love for hunting being anything
Other than a socialist endeavor. What the hell do you
Think we've arguing about for the better part of a fricken
Week?? If you are just picking up on that now
You do have comprehension problems.

Typing really slow here Tri. Wildlife is owned by
The public of each state = socialism.
No special interest be they rich, poor,
Pro hunt, anti hunt, state entity, republican or
Democrat should have special access to any
Hunting permit. = socialist. None of the special
Interests should demand any concession from
The public in obtaining a permit. = socialism.

Clear??



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
>Exactly where does mother Mary's sisters
>of the poor
>Fit in to class envy??


I have now frickin clue. youbrought them up not me. Now you bring up class envy and i haven't said anything about that. how am I supposed to decide answers for problems you make up?

Utah
>State Parks?? Class
>Envy? Again it's you that is
>trying to push that bullcrap


Where did I say " class envy"? Quote me boy. You make fun of my reading comprehension but then start making up issues as you go.

>
>Not me.

Apparently it is you.

>
>Please site one example where I
>HAVE NOT
>Professed my love for hunting being
>anything
>Other than a socialist endeavor.

Why? I never accused you of saying such. Again are you remotely in control of your mental state?

Just keep saying loud and proud hunting in the USA is a form of socialism. I can hear the mobs flocking to you cause. Loud and Proud brother.
 
Are you on crack??? Re-read your own
Words from post 134 and get back to me.

It's called a debate sir. You make a point and I
Reply.

Like the CAT would say

Judas Priest!!'



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Actually you idiot this is not a debate at all. Obviously you don't know what a debate is. Second you are absolutely loosing your marbles. You are posting things that make no sense therefore I don't respond to them. Then you somehow accuse me of saying things I never said. Now you are saying you are responding to the things I never responded to nor did I write them. ARE YOU DRUNK BOY?
 
"Hooooooooooly Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat! You finally said it. I actually commend you greatly on doing so. You are actually making steps towards being a man. You are actually being honest about your beliefs. Yes this system right now has made hunting a socialist foothold in a capitalist land. I have been saying this for years. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY IT IS FAILING! Now quit with this kiss it goodbye junk because there are nations all over this planet that do not run their wildlife in a socialist model and they have PLENTY of hunting."

You didn't say any of this??

Not biting on the boy remark numbnuts.

Since you brought up capitalism in the non debate would you
please for the love of God explain how the expo has anything to do with capitalism??

Or even how auctioning a tag to the highest bidder relates to capitalism??

I can't wait for this upcoming download of pseudo intellectual
bullcrap.








"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
No where in that quote did I claim the expo is capitalist. Go back and read boy. Did you do a whole lot of drugs over many years or did you do them all tonight?
 
"Yes this system right now has made hunting a socialist foothold in a capitalist land."

Apparently you have vision problems as well.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
"And, capitolistically, why should we who have fiscal constraints start actually doing something to help mule deer that we can't hunt? What's the incentive?"

You very well may not do anything to help the deer. But if the value of the deer actually increase then businesses will develop that actually cash in on that value. Those businessmen will put forth the money and effort to develop your deer herds because it will benefit them fiscally. Right now in this state we have the Texas Bighorn Society. It is full of members and volunteers that will never be able to afford a bighorn hunt and will probably never go on one in this state. But landowners, businessmen, volunteers, and TP&W have worked hand in hand for decades now to take the bighorn population from 0 to over 1000 and hunting for them has been reinstated here."

Or this.







"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Look douchebag, either you are a socialist, or a crony capitalist.
If you are neither then STHU in your defense of a private enterprise being publicly subsidized through profit of public property. IE the fricken expo.

You can't have it both ways dimwit.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
>Look douchebag, either you are a
>socialist, or a crony capitalist.
>
>If you are neither then STHU
>in your defense of a
>private enterprise being publicly subsidized
>through profit of public property.
>IE the fricken expo.
>
>You can't have it both ways
>dimwit.


I never said you could. Are you drunk? You posts are becoming completely void of any logic whatsoever.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-14 AT 07:26PM (MST)[p]Duck and dodge. Answer a question with a question.

It was a very simple question tri.

Are you a capitalist and if so how can you defend any entity that profits from a publicly owned resource. IE bailout??




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
You are so hammered I couldn't tell what you were asking.

I am a capitalist. First of all you are mistaken about this being a bailout. I don't have to defend their actions. They do exactly what capitalists are supposed to do. They find a market and exploit it for as much profit as legally possible. Every single product in your life came from an entity that profited from a public resource. What do you think a capitalists relationship is with the highway and road system.
 
Tri, private entities that use public highways to transport products pay gas, vehicle and property tax to use and maintain infrastructure and they actually produce a product worthy of demand.

Exactly which product has SFW produced? Exactly how much tax does a non profit pay? Without these permits and auction tags you have the ISE expo.

Sir you are what is called a crony capitalist which is exactly what is running this country in to the dirt.







"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Actually they are not capitalist at all when it comes to the convention tags and the conservation tags,

They did NOTHING to earn them, they were simply given them like foodstamps or a welfare check.

If i receive foodstamps or a welfare check yet turn around and sell them to the highest bidder does that make me a capitalist?

No it makes me an abuser of the system.

Listen this thread is old and so is the argument in favor of what is going on. The money raised off of convention permits IS NOT being used for wildlife like it was agreed upon. This is not an opinion this is a FACT,

The Antelope Island tag has done nothing for the wildlife on the island.

All the millions and millions raised by all the tags have done nothing for Mule Deer.

We have far less hunters today in this state then we did 20 years ago when the welfare started.

These are all FACTS. You want to argue the legality of it and that is another issue. The facts of it are Utah is no better off today for opportunity for the public then it was 20 years ago. In fact a strong argument can be made that Utah is actually worse off.

Tony Abbott
 
> The facts of it
>are Utah is no better
>off today for opportunity for
>the public then it was
>20 years ago. In fact
>a strong argument can be
>made that Utah is actually
>worse off.
>
>Tony Abbott

Talk about a "glass half empty" comment.

I think the opportunity to hunt in Utah is a lot better in many aspects than it has been in the last 5,10 or 20 years.

There's always next year
 
You think the opportunity to hunt in UTah is a lot better in many aspects?

Could you list them?

You see overall we have half the hunters we had 20 years ago. So any small increase in the other permits (animals) still pales in comparison to the number of opportunities Utah has lost.

This is not a glass half empty comment.... This is simply a fact.

I dont know who you are or even how old you are, but Utah today for hunting opportunity is much less then it was 20 years ago.

If you would care I could list how many total hunters were in Utah 20 years ago and how many we have today.



Tony Abbott
 
"Tri, private entities that use public highways to transport products pay gas, vehicle and property tax to use and maintain infrastructure and they actually produce a product worthy of demand."

Actually many don't produce a product at all and some produce a product that isn't demanded and some don't pay taxes.

"Exactly which product has SFW produced?"

I am sure they do some merchandising but for the most part they are a service industry. I know its hard for you to imagine but you don't have to produce a product to be engaging in capitalism.

" Exactly how much tax does a non profit pay? Without these permits and auction tags you have the ISE expo."

You really don't know how "non-profits" work do you?

"Sir you are what is called a crony capitalist which is exactly what is running this country in to the dirt."

At what point anywhere do I claim "crony capitalism". Do you know what I do for a living boy? How does that have anything to do with cronyism?
 
Sure we have half the deer hunters that we had 20 years ago but we also have half the deer we had 25 years ago.

Now for more opportunity.
1)We have more general any bull units to hunt on than 20 years ago, which has spread out the hunters more so.
2)More cow elk tags given out than ever before.
3)More LE elk tags given out now than 20 years ago and probably ever before.
4)More OIL tags given out now than 20 years ago and several more units soon to open.
5)And thanks to Option 2, we now have a 9 day rifle deer hunt again, rather than the crappy 3 or 5 day season.

That's more opportunity in my eyes.








There's always next year
 
Done chasing my tail with you Tri
Have a great day.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Half the hunters anyway you look at it is lost opportunity and thus less people fighting for what we love.

The less hunters (opportunity) they more likely hunting goes away.

Tony Abbott
 
another point of view about expo,,,,, I never seen this post until today, and am not sure I like where the monies are going that the Expo brings in. Maybe utah wildlife can dictate how the money is being spent before they give the tags out!!!

But not going to expo, or protesting expo is like having a wart on your foot and not taking care of it!!!! when a hunter has the "chance" to draw another tag, or apply for multi tags, instead of just one speci per state per year. You have a long battle on your hands to get the expo stopped.

Years ago, I lost a great ranch to hunt on, because it was sold.
Did not make me happy, but protesting it was crazy, so a person has to find another place to hunt,,, If a tag was taken from you,,, find a way to apply for more tags, more chances to hunt, which expo does. Thats why there are so many people there. Opportunity knocks, take advantage of it!!!! if colo, NM, arizona all had the same expo, I would go,,,,, More opporunities!!!

Makes me feel bad how the money is spent, but I might have a chance to hunt, and they are getting slimmer, I have applied for rocky sheep in Colo for 27 years, so hell yes I apply in utah. I live close to utah so expo is not that far of a drive, I'm a lucky one, Thank you utah!!!

Giving hunters an opportunity is good,,, utah just needs to find a way to make the monies work for wildlife!!!

Expo keeps the young hunters involved too, which is great!!
 
Wow, if I had to guess I would think Tritops and a bunch of other who love the expo must be from Texas. I rarely visit this site, it always shocks me how many don't really get what the problem is with privatization and commercialization of wildlife - which is what the expo is all about.

Saw some comments about how the expo seems to be growing, sad that so many are so selfish in this me me me world. Even sadder is apparently we teach our kids its ok...
 
You want to know what is really sad Grasshopper. The fact that the USA is full of people that can't comprehend how supply, demand and money function. They think that socialism and crying for things is how you solve problems. They think if they don't get something for nothing its because someone else was "selfish".

You can't handle the accountability that decades of fiscal abuse by our state wildlife agencies in a socialist based system of horse crap has landed you right here and now and you can think of is what you aren't getting now. THAT IS SELFISH!
 
Nothing selfish about what I am doing - been patiently waiting in line, getting my points and following the draw process.

I know this is hard for you since your used to the Texas model but the role of government, given the wildlife is and should remain a publicly owned resource, is to provide access to the public at large on a LEVEL playing field.

Privatization and commercialization creates an unlevel playing field where pricing tiers, and double dipping discriminate against sectors of the public. It puts people at a disadvantage. Discrimination is illegal and should not be a government policy. Commercialization and privatization pits hunter against hunter. Some guy who just paid thousands for tag, selfishly took it away from a deserving teenager, although he's to consumed to see it clearly.

Ultimately, its up to the people of Utah to manage their own affairs. I wish them luck in avoiding the Texas model of hunting, but they are 50% of the way there today.
 
Hopper don't waste your time with tritip.

He can't decide if he's a capitalist or a welfare queen.

"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
>Sure we have half the deer
>hunters that we had 20
>years ago but we also
>have half the deer we
>had 25 years ago.
>
>Now for more opportunity.
>1)We have more general any bull
>units to hunt on than
>20 years ago, which has
>spread out the hunters more
>so.
>2)More cow elk tags given out
>than ever before.
>3)More LE elk tags given out
>now than 20 years ago
>and probably ever before.
>4)More OIL tags given out now
>than 20 years ago and
>several more units soon to
>open.
>5)And thanks to Option 2, we
>now have a 9 day
>rifle deer hunt again, rather
>than the crappy 3 or
>5 day season.
>
>That's more opportunity in my eyes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There's always next year


20 yrs ago we had a two weekend season. 20 yrs ago you could still find land in Northern Utah. 20 years ago the Manti and Nebo weren't the tag clearing house that they are now. 20 yrs ago, before SFW "saved" us there were deer. 20 years ago you didn't draw general season tags. 20 years ago.... Some guys have drunk so much coolaid they can't see FACTS. THERE ARE LESS DEER TODAY, FEB. 20th, 2014 than there were Feb. 20th 1994, FACT. The only thing to increase are CWMU's, and conservation tags. SFW has FAILED. They were gonna save the deer herd 20yrs ago, THEY FAILED. I don't care how you spin it, or how much you love their PR, THEY FAILED. And in those 20 years they have sucked up MILLIONS of dollars which they enriched THEMSELVES WITH. Funny thing about Tony, whether you like him or not, whether you think he has an ax to grind or not, he has been saying it forever, "what is a large percentage?". SFW has fleeced the sportsmen of Utah for how many millions, and given a small percentage back. The facts are the facts, you, me, or Tony can have opinions, but the FACTS are SFW has stolen millions, kept most of it, and TOTALLY FAILED at "saving" the deer herd. All of the PR, spin, and Tristates, can't change THE FACTS.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Actually grasshopper that is one of the best examples of selfishness I know. You fully recognize and know there is a serious threat to the conservation of the deer herd. But instead of trying dynamic solutions that are outside of the box and your knowledge you want to make sure all things stay the same so you don't loose your place in line for the tag handout. Like I have said in the past, the deer herd is unimportant and you are just another person in an argument over who gets to kill the last deer.
 
Because thinking out of the box with selling
Wildlife to the highest bidder has worked so
Well for hunters and mule deer?? Tell that to the
100k deer and 150k hunters that are gone.

You believe everybody should sacrifice except
Those that can gerrymander the process or scratch
A big check??

Will the hunter that kills the last deer be a high dollar
Hunter or Joe six pack??




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Interesting that you asked that last question. Typically in other nations the Joe Sixpack kills the last animal. I know you won't believe it but look at yourself and the behavior on this site and you will know its the truth.

By the way selling wildlife is working all over the world. Why do you think it wouldn't work on such a tiny scale in utah?
 
Ha ha exactly where is it working?? Africa??




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-14 AT 09:30PM (MST)[p]Did ya ever notice guys who want to privatize wildlife hide behind, "its about the wildlife"?

The real problem with privatizing wildlife is not what it does to wildlife - its what it does to HUNTERS. The issue is about hunting, not wildlife. Its not Texas, Europe or Africa yet dude.

I'm out because a discussion with you is a complete waste my time, and it is the most valuable asset I have.
 
>Because thinking out of the box
>with selling
>Wildlife to the highest bidder has
>worked so
>Well for hunters and mule deer??
>Tell that to the
>100k deer and 150k hunters that
>are gone.
>
>You believe everybody should sacrifice except
>
>Those that can gerrymander the process
>or scratch
>A big check??
>
>Will the hunter that kills the
>last deer be a high
>dollar
>Hunter or Joe six pack??
>

Because of the value of the animal, he'll be a Joe six pack trying to become a high dollar hunter by poaching!
 
Grasshopper,

This ain't a chicken or egg debate. THE WILDLIFE COMES FIRST! Without it there ain't any hunters. How many mule deer does a deer tag make?

By the way Wiley, YES IT WORKS IN AFRICA. Have you been there? Have you noticed there a vast spans of land that don't have a single living wild beast on it? Guess how much an animal was worth on those pieces of land? Guess where most of the very best areas to see wildlife are? IN THOSE AREAS THAT HAVE PAID HUNTING!
 
>>Because thinking out of the box
>>with selling
>>Wildlife to the highest bidder has
>>worked so
>>Well for hunters and mule deer??
>>Tell that to the
>>100k deer and 150k hunters that
>>are gone.
>>
>>You believe everybody should sacrifice except
>>
>>Those that can gerrymander the process
>>or scratch
>>A big check??
>>
>>Will the hunter that kills the
>>last deer be a high
>>dollar
>>Hunter or Joe six pack??
>>
>
>Because of the value of the
>animal, he'll be a Joe
>six pack trying to become
>a high dollar hunter by
>poaching!


Excellent point!! However, and even Tri I think would agree, this is due the loss of what hunting was. Modern hunting has become about inches and points, not meat and experience. My dad and granddad wouldn't have passed a big 4 point to kill a little one, but we have all seen the pics with dudes in wool, carrying army surplus rifles, with old jeeps covered in huge deer. Ever hear the "scores" of these bucks? For that matter how many of them even kept horns? Antlers have become so valuable($305k) that poaching isn't about families needing food like back in the day, its now a multi million dollar "industry". What Tristate doesn't get, and not because he is azz, but because he lives in Texas, is that in Utah, at least for guys over 30, the deer hunt was a holiday(literally). It was "the hunt". The state used to shut down. It was an ingrained part of your DNA, 3rd week of Oct. was the hunt. It was a family gathering, time to meet with friends. People hunted the same place decade, after decade. Guys like Tristate talk about trophy classes or money saving deer, but what happened was we lost 150,000 voters. 150,000 tag buyers. 150,000 rifle buyers, bullet buyers, knife buyers, gas buyers, food buyers. We went from the 2nd LARGEST industry in the state of Utah to an afterthought. The DWR "needs" to sale tags like AI, because they aren't the big dog on the block anymore. We can't dictate to the state legislature that the loss of mule deer will cripple the state due to loss revenue to the overall economy, because WE are no longer that force. In the absence of 250,000 tag buying, money spending hunters, SFW spread its cancer. But its not about mule deer saving with them(check out HB151 in Alaska), its about a vision of private wildlife, owned by commercial entities, and sold to the highest bidder. Perhaps if you grew up in Texas, or wherever this seems normal, or natural, but my ancestors didn't stop in Texas, they kept going west in search of something better. If I, and many like us wanted to have Texas style game managment, we would ask guys like Tri, but he has zero grasp in what it means to be a Rocky Mtn. born man, and what hunting has to due with it. In the end, go look at the pic board on this site with the kids. That is what we are losing with the SFW model. That is what locking up the state in CWMU's is creating. That is what $305k tags will eliminate. Every hunter we lose due to cost, lost access, SFW dream of zero competion for their deep pockets, video games, or you name it, is one day closer to the loss of our heritage. I and Fishon, and many others realize that we need MORE. Not more trophy hunts, or LE units, WE NEED MORE HUNTERS, and the path that the trophy hunting, CWMU loving, SFW expo tag selling people are taking us is ultimatley the end of what we ALL love, HUNTING.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 06:57AM (MST)[p]Ya taking a look in the mirror at greed and selfishness from Tricell and others get old fast.

Game departments should manage game to the extent the people of their state want it - regardless of their funding model, lack of funds or surplus of funds. Thats their job.

License distribution, privatization, and commercialization are totally a separate issue and have ZERO to do with herd health or management objectives. Just admit it, call a spade a spade, this is about greed and selfishness - not wildlife whatsoever.

Its hard to put OTHER PEOPLE first in a world of legalized cutting in line, kickbacks, and double dipping - but it is always the right thing to do.
 
Grasshopper are you actually going to use a brain in this discussion or just keep yelling "points" off of a protest board. You can keep crying about what hunting is going to inevitably be or you can actually start coming up with ideas to make it better. You want to cry about line cutting and that's important to first graders. In the real world men quit worrying about standing in line. Lines are how women manage little kids. It is not how grown men handle getting things done.

I also like how you think lack of funds won't stop game departments from doing their jobs? DO you have any concept of how money works at all? DO you think all those people driving around in state vehicles are your slave? Put your big boy pants on set down your emotions, and start using logic.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 08:30AM (MST)[p]Solutions and ideas in Utah are for the people of Utah to figure out. I don't live there, and I don't vote there. I'll wear my big boy pants everyday, in my home state where I have a vote.

What I do find ironic is that Utah, a state with what might be the highest concentration of devoutly religious people, have adopted the most selfish and greedy license distribution system in the US. All I can do is pray the good guys make progress in the right (selfless) direction, and I've already done that.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14
>AT 08:30?AM (MST)
>
>Solutions and ideas in Utah are
>for the people of Utah
>to figure out. I don't
>live there, and I don't
>vote there. I'll wear my
>big boy pants everyday, in
>my home state where I
>have a vote.
>
>What I do find ironic is
>that Utah, a state with
>what might be the highest
>concentration of devoutly religious people,
>have adopted the most selfish
>and greedy license distribution system
>in the US. All I
>can do is pray the
>good guys make progress in
>the right (selfless) direction, and
>I've already done that.

It is Utah, where smoking and drinking are demonized, but pay for school lunch for kids. Where the state is the only liquor salesman and greatly enjoys its 30% markup they charge the "evil". Utah, where we stand on or soapbox preaching about family, then do everything in our power to stop the family from getting together to hunt, or fish(thanks for that one to SFW). Utah is a beautiful place, has great people, but over and over we talk one game, and sell out to another.

Tristate,
Your logical mind needs to explain this to me. If SFW and their 200+ welfare tags, and their model of wildlife "conservation" is the model we should all follow, why is it in 20 years Utahs wildlife is losing ground? Why have the prices(you love to talk about market principles) for the gov. tags are down? If they were succesful at anything wouldn't Utah be the model the other western states follow? Why is Colorado where you go for deer, and Arizona for elk? If you were gonna buy a western elk tag would Utah be your first choice? For deer? For moose? Sheep? Antelope? We have had SFW medeling in our game management for over 20 yrs, shouldn't we be #1 in something? Or for that matter #2? How is it possible that Utah is worse off for deer, moose since SFW came on board. To use your logic, money dictates. Shouldn't our gov tags be #1 in price across the board? Why aren't they? Your great at telling us about how selling out to SFW is the vision for the future, now explain to me why Utah is worse off today than it was yesterday? How is that possible, we sell more tags than anyone else, we generated more private money last week than any other state in the nation, we have the supply of tags, obviously we can sale them, how are we not #1? For that matter how is it that your state isn't even #5 for mulies, they have mostly private paying hunting, shouldn't Texas lead the nation?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
"Tristate,
Your logical mind needs to explain this to me. If SFW and their 200+ welfare tags, and their model of wildlife "conservation" is the model we should all follow, why is it in 20 years Utahs wildlife is losing ground?"

Because that means at max less than %.5 of your big game tags have been capitalized. %99.5 still are undervalued junk. That means the general public including the non-hunters see deer as an expense and not a valuable resource.

" Why have the prices(you love to talk about market principles) for the gov. tags are down?"

Actually some are up and some are down. Also if you would capitalize all of the tags you could easily find many tag prices would be cheaper than the few that are available now. There is more to setting a value on something than just getting bidders.

" If they were succesful at anything wouldn't Utah be the model the other western states follow?"

No.

"Why is Colorado where you go for deer,"

I don't.

"and Arizona for elk?"

I don't.

" If you were gonna buy a western elk tag would Utah be your first choice?"

Probably.

" For deer?"

Yes

" For moose?"

Yes

" Sheep?"

Either there or Texas.

" Antelope?"

No. New Mexico.

" We have had SFW medeling in our game management for over 20 yrs, shouldn't we be #1 in something?"

You need to learn how to define "#1".

"Or for that matter #2? How is it possible that Utah is worse off for deer, moose since SFW came on board."

Yall haven't capitalized the majority of your available big game tags.

" To use your logic, money dictates. Shouldn't our gov tags be #1 in price across the board? Why aren't they?"

Not sure what you are asking.

"Your great at telling us about how selling out to SFW is the vision for the future, now explain to me why Utah is worse off today than it was yesterday?"

Go find anywhere on these forums where I have claimed SFW is who you should sell out to. Do it and I will leave the forums and never come back. Quit the emotional woman crap and start talking like a man.

" How is that possible, we sell more tags than anyone else, we generated more private money last week than any other state in the nation, we have the supply of tags, obviously we can sale them, how are we not #1? "

You most certainly have not sold the most tags and you most certainly did not raise the most money. Don't turn into a liar now.

"For that matter how is it that your state isn't even #5 for mulies, they have mostly private paying hunting, shouldn't Texas lead the nation?"

You need to go back and decide what makes something #5 before you ask such a question. If I wanted to argue like you I would put on something lacey and explain we are #1 for the prettiest mule deer capes.
 
As if you couldn't make this argument any more emotional and less logical you decide to confuse a fiscal and biological issue with religion. You are lost boy.
 
>As if you couldn't make this
>argument any more emotional and
>less logical you decide to
>confuse a fiscal and biological
>issue with religion. You
>are lost boy.

First, at 6'5 270 lbs i havent been called BOY for a while, nice job not being emotional. Your math is as bad as your logic. The . 5% is if we only sold expo tags. Don't forget the 100's of other banquet tags. Or LE tags. Or gov. tags. As usual you think using a number confuses everyone. SON this ain't texas, we all (to use your talk) can do math here in Utah.

Texas is not #1 in number of mulies. Not #1 in muley hunters. Not #1 in tags available. Not #1 in scores. Not #1 in average size. Not #1 in out of state/NR tags bought, or sold for that matter. Not #1 in revenue brought in for muleys. Not #1 on any ranking, revenue, or sales figure. Is that specific enough? Your dream land Texas should lead in at least one of those categories if it what you preach it to be. Texas is not #1 in wildlife dollars brought in. And no where near #1 on dollars spent(hunting) per capita.

Don't spin, don't twist, don't think that using some "ya'll I'm from Texas I am a genius" talk is anything other than half english drivel. Texas leads the nation in two things, illegal aliens( damn, I fogot Arizona, never mind), and big mouths. Like I said earlier, the women who couldn't handle the trip stayed in Texas,(and lost the alamo), the rest of the men actually went west. Thanks again Tri, but when I want to know about tornados or dust I will ask a Texan(come to think of it your not even #1 in tornados). If I want to know about dust I will ask a Texan. Until then, BOY, keep impressing us with your first rate(I meand grade) math wizardry, and grasp of biology. Keep on spinning that yarn on market driven principles in the private sector(while your heros SFW are completely government subsidized). Keep trolling, everytime you post it helps us point out just what the SFW folks really think like. God bless you, BOY, sure hope you survive the viscious winter and your state closing 2" of snow!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
"First, at 6'5 270 lbs i havent been called BOY for a while, nice job not being emotional."

Keep taking those Flintstones and maybe your brain will catch up.

" Your math is as bad as your logic. The . 5% is if we only sold expo tags. Don't forget the 100's of other banquet tags. Or LE tags. Or gov. tags. As usual you think using a number confuses everyone. SON this ain't texas, we all (to use your talk) can do math here in Utah."

SO share the exact number. Come on your good at math tell everyone here the exact number and the percentage of your total big game tags. You talked the talk now walk the walk, mathematician.

"Texas is not #1 in number of mulies. Not #1 in muley hunters."

How many mule deer hunters are there here. Come on show me the exact number and a link. Not just some number you pulled out of your butt like everything else.

" Not #1 in tags available."

Actually moron we are number one for the number of tags available. Any more lies you care to spew.

" Not #1 in scores."

Hell no we have a completely different subspecies of mule deer here. They are probably the smallest bodied mule deer anywhere.

" Not #1 in average size."

Again genetics. You may want to pick up a book sometime.

"Not #1 in out of state/NR tags bought, or sold for that matter."

Care to share that number and a link since you have proclaimed you are good at math.

" Not #1 in revenue brought in for muleys."

Again you mwant to share a link or are you just going to keep pulling numbers out of your butt.

" Not #1 on any ranking, revenue, or sales figure."

Another lie. We are #1 in the entire nation for hunting revenue. One species alone is over a billion dollar a year enterprise here. Just one.

Is that specific enough? Your dream land Texas should lead in at least one of those categories if it what you preach it to be. Texas is not #1 in wildlife dollars brought in. And no where near #1 on dollars spent(hunting) per capita."

Dude lay off the crack. Show me one other state that brings in a billion dollars annually for one game animal.

"Don't spin, don't twist, don't think that using some "ya'll I'm from Texas I am a genius" talk is anything other than half english drivel."

I could try just being a straight out liar like you. Will you accept that defense? By the way if you are going to bash someone's "english" you should probably learn how to spell English.

" Texas leads the nation in two things, illegal aliens( damn, I fogot Arizona, never mind), and big mouths. Like I said earlier, the women who couldn't handle the trip stayed in Texas,(and lost the alamo), the rest of the men actually went west."

How often does Hollywood contact you for your story? That's what I thought boy. By the way I noticed you weren't man enough to meet the challenge.
 
Just to make sure this post hits the magic 200 mark.

Some hunt units are actually higher than 5% depending on
species.

The 200 tags we have to kiss the SFW/MDF pig for will
push some specific units higher than 5% as well.

Being the fine crony capitalist that you are Tri,
you wouldn't mind showing any one of us where any of
us have realized a return on this investment?

I'll start you off. Turkey's.

have at it big Tex



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
"Just to make sure this post hits the magic 200 mark.

Some hunt units are actually higher than 5% depending on
species.

The 200 tags we have to kiss the SFW/MDF pig for will
push some specific units higher than 5% as well.

Being the fine crony capitalist that you are Tri,
you wouldn't mind showing any one of us where any of
us have realized a return on this investment?

I'll start you off. Turkey's.

have at it big Tex"


Is this English? Can anyone out there even tell what any of this says? He actually has a sentence that just says "Turkey's". I know he is trying to talk trash in some way and then he keeps saying %5 but there is no definition of what. Look slick you have got to slow down and write something people can understand here.
 
Sorry there, lemme slow down just for you.

You asked HOSS for some figures.
I provided them.

I asked you to show me where 20 years of welfare
to conservation orgs and auction tags had provided
a return for Utah's sportsmen and being the nice fella
that I am I started you off with Turkeys. Ya know Tri
big birds eaten on Thanksgiving??

Carry on TriTip.


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
You didn't give me any figures. You claimed %5 of an unknown amount. Now if you want to start talking for that boy that's fine but you better post some exact numbers.
 
There are no specific numbers TriTip.

Unit tag allocations vary year to year.

Thats why its a percentage instead of a hard number.

Carry on BOY.





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Tri, so you know, we traded some elk for turkeys, yeah I know SFW owns the elk. So you see a pic on the internet with elkassasins son holding a turkey and like all the other SFW worshippers, you claim success. Problem is TRI turkey transplants started in Utah BEFORE SFW, and the turkey federation was responsible.

So you wanna contend that Texas has more hunters and brings in more revenue from it than Alaska for revenue or Wis. for deer? We gonna keep on that track? Remember when we say wildlife we don't mean all that african high fence shooting, we mean WILDlife.

Now, for a revue, SFW takes 200 expo tags, millions more, and the success you point to was turkeys, which were already here. Turkeys is where you want to base your argument! GOOD JOB TRI!!

Come on TRI, perhaps your next argument can be that SFW brought us the cutthroat trout. Or perhaps forest grouse. WAIT, I know without that welfare Utah wouldn't have Jackrabbits!!!

I have read, your drivel for so long its funny, but TURKEYS where you go for SFW sucess!!

Bud you need to get out more, I know, you saw a snowflake so you hit the bombshelter, but while you were educating the Utah public about SFWs turkey success, the sun came out.

Not even DON PEAY himself has tried to take credit for TURKEYS.

GOOD JOB TEXAN!! Wait I said I would ask, how is the dust? Please enlighten us all!!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Wileywapiti,

You are dodging boy. Pick 2013. What was the specific number of tags and how many total tags did the state offer through all means of transfer? Hosts blur said y'all are good at math so do it.

Hossblurr you just wasted an entire post ranting about crazy stuff I never brought up. I didn't post anything at all about SFW and turkeys or anyone's son. I know it's the weekend but you need to lay off the narcotics. I posted a quote by your buddy boy Whiley asking what he meant by turkeys.
 
Wanna say it was 513 including the cons tags.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I do know that your dumb ass would have
These welfare tags at over 100k.


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Hossblur, I have to agree with you. We need to put the deer tags back over the counter and make them unlimited. Sell all the tags over the counter. Do away with the 200 expo tags and also the conservation tags. They are just getting in the way. I am sure if we do this then we will start to see the deer come back and lots of elk and game to shoot. Great idea.
 
Look it up yourself DBag.

T-9



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
See you just realized I was right and you are too chickens#!t to admit it. I thought you boys were good at math.
 
The only place you are right is in your own mind.

Look DTip if you have a point make it.


"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I already made the point boy. Then you and Hossblur decided I was incorrect but neither of you can show me the math. Y'all claim %5 of the tags have been taken away from you. I claim it is less than %.5. If 513 tags comprise %5 then Utah is giving out only 10000 tags each year.
 
That's why people think
You are a dishonest fact spinning
Fool tritip.

Let me know how many times I
Need to say it and I will do it now.

5% comes out of each unit and species
Drawn. Some years higher some years
Lower but still 5%.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
There is no fact spinning, only truth. Just because it lets people see you are the one trying to spin things into some BS support for your sob story cause it makes you angry. My whole point is you won't make one bit of difference in the strength of your deer herds whether you capitalize %.5 of the tags or your false number of %5. These are minority percentages and not high enough to alter your non-sustainable killing plan.
 
Holy crap!!!! I agree with trilip!!!

The auction permit program hasn't
Worked in 20 years. Deer and deer hunter numbers
Are plummeting.

Put the 5% back and let's hunt.

Way to go trilip. I knew eventually you'd wise up!'





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 

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