Thoughts on Youth hunts during the rut?

J

JFBNORTHERNHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
398
Seeing A lot of nice Bucks coming out of the youth hunt in 2B... Now I know why game and fish does these hunts and everything but to know that these bucks genetics won't carry-on does suck. Plus, it sets the pole really high when you kill a 180-200 inch buck when your so young. As a adult you may never see a deer like that with a tag in hand. Or you may never drew a tag as a adult as in New Mexico you have a better chance of winning the lottery then drawing a hunt that produce that caliber of bucks.



I see humanity now as one vast plant, needing for its
highest fulfillment only love, the natural blessings of the
great outdoors, and intelligent crossing and selection.
Luther Burbank
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 06:36PM (MST)[p]Unless this would've been the first year one of these nice bucks to rut, their genetics have already been passed on in both doe and buck fawns the previous year, and the year previous to that all the way back to when that buck first rutted with a doe that also had good genetics from her daddy as well.

In order for bucks to have the best genetics and horn potential, dominant genes from both doe and buck need to be there.

As a twist, maybe the harvest rate wasn't high enough on past reports because of the willingness to eat "tag soup" for not finding a big enough buck and this is a management tool to get the harvest numbers in "check"? You'd be surprised at how many youth hunters are just wanting to shoot a first deer, regardless of size.

Seems strange though, don't you think, that game biologists would be that clueless to let a lot of youth hunters "slaughter" the San Juan and Rio Arriba County deer herd into extinction. Many youth hunts in the southern part of the state are already during this timeframe and have been for quite a while...
 
I have also seen some really good bucks taken already! I for one am in favor of these awesome youth opportunities including this new hunt! Because it allows these youth to kill that brute of a buck because we all damn well know that it won't happen when they're an adult like the rest of us haha

That being said it doesn't start with game and fish poor management of including a new hunt... how about the existing hunts that are out there where it's hard to find a deer. They need to manage those ones before IMO

I like the new hunt and hope they do more like it
 
What is the first weekend of the youth hunt looking like ?
How was the road access conditions ?
Rut in swing ? How many tags and when does the season end ?
Any reports of happy young hunters and huntress ?
 
I do agree that the trophy youth hunts the G&F puts out are not what youth hunts should be. I would like to seethe trophy type hunt be available for all hunters. The youth hunts should be good hunts to kill a deer not the best in the best units.

Now I'm throwing stones from a glass house because my kid has taken full advantage of these youth hunts and has some great trophy from them.

Youth hunts like the cow elk tags you can get if your kid doesn't draw are what youth hunts should be about. Great hunts, great chance to harvest, great experience and teaching them to appreciate it all before the trophy hunting starts

And don't put it past G& F to not know what they are doing. They think all species can be managed the same from Colorado border to the Mexican border. Yeah no difference in climate or habitat or anything important WTF.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 10:05PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 10:05?PM (MST)

All I ask is that they keep it for another seven years so that my one-year-old grandson can apply. That, and also that I'll live another seven years so that I can take him on his first hunt... :)
 
I think the hunts are great, our hunting tradition nation wide has dwindled down according to license sales but NM is one of the states that has trended upwards and these types of hunts can really benefit in growing and teaching our youth.They are also the ones in future years that will fight for our privileges as Im sure that battle is coming sooner than later....The kids have taken some really nice bucks , but more of the bucks harvested have been younger deer , and that is what these types of later hunts provide for our youth, and better opportunity to see,hunt and harvest a buck...& Im with Mozey, cuz my little will be hitting the hills for the first time in 2020...
 
>I think the hunts are great,
>our hunting tradition nation wide
>has dwindled down according to
>license sales but NM is
>one of the states that
>has trended upwards and these
>types of hunts can really
>benefit in growing and teaching
>our youth.They are also the
>ones in future years that
>will fight for our privileges
>as Im sure that battle
>is coming sooner than later....The
>kids have taken some really
>nice bucks , but more
>of the bucks harvested have
>been younger deer , and
>that is what these
>types of later hunts provide
>for our youth, and better
>opportunity to see,hunt and harvest
>a buck...& Im with Mozey,
>cuz my little will be
>hitting the hills for the
>first time in 2020...

Yes, yes, yes, and yes some more. I have "debated" with others that keeping the kiddos interested is what is going to allow my old butt in 15 or 20 years to continue to be able to go because the opportunity will live because of them and not me. I have already added two new huntresses to the ranks. My middle kiddo got a first deer this year in 2A, a young two year old and that's perfectly OK. A brute would've been fun, but was not a requirement. We only focused on a first deer, better ones to come in the future.

It would not surprise me to see a change next year. Either discontinue in the unit 2 sub-units or a sharp reduction in tag numbers. Hope it's the latter and not the former...
 
I am so pro youth HUNTS!

My facebook is filled with more bone with deer and elk, then I have ever seen!

Are we shooting ourselves in the foot?
 
As a taxidermist I can't complain too much, it's nice that the kids are out hunting rather than gang banging. But I do think 150 tags in that unit is way too much. I'm just a part timer and I've already taken in 8 from that hunt and 3 on their way tomorrow. All decent bucks.
 
The definition of hunts, opportunity and management in this state are so insane. It's a slaughter fest. It won't last very long at this rate. May not be like this on years to come. Sometimes I think kid hunting and kids having hunts near best in the state at like 8 years old are a fine line.

I think management needs to be the focus more than who's doing the hunting. The bow hunts for elk for example are specifically set to avoid people smashing them in prime time rut for a reason they say. Then you have hunts like this... it's confusing to me?!? I think the hunt should be a little more coveted than 150 tags considering the overall situation with the rut and nearly the only good unit for deer in the state. I'm sure if you have the 2B archery your a bit sad...

Yes I am pro kids hunting but as I stated what hunts and when they hunt should be managed just as adults.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-19 AT 10:31AM (MST)[p]I have yet to hear a valud reason why youth hunters should not be allowed to have prime time hunts. Most say it isn't right a youth hunter to have the opportunity to shoot a 180" mule deer with a rifle near or during rut conditions.

Why? Because 14 year old Johnny hasn't earned that right yet? Who says? Sounds like some think it's "not fair". Ok, whatever I guess.

I do agree, I beleive too many tags were available, for both sub units. I do not want to see this entire opportunity disappear. Does shooting a 185" deer for a first deer ruin the youth hunter for life? Depends on that youth's character and the characters of their mentors...
 
I seen it first hand, kid goes out kills a monster buck and the next year they are thinking they going kill something as big or bigger and pass up on respectable bucks and never kill anything. Then you have these kids that there parents did the class for them and put them in for these hunts. I seen it in both elk and deer hunts and it got me a little upset. Little Johnny is asleep or playing with his games will pops and gramps is seating with the rifle in one hand and a beer in the other. I just think game and fish should be out in force and weed out the unethical hunters and rethink the management of our deer herd. It is already ##### and with continued mismanagement it will get worse.


I see humanity now as one vast plant, needing for its
highest fulfillment only love, the natural blessings of the
great outdoors, and intelligent crossing and selection.
Luther Burbank
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-19 AT 08:20AM (MST)[p]Who?s heard of these clowns? https://www.santafenewmexican.com/n...cle_2f826325-6c70-5d91-ae88-6fecddcd4760.html

I know them and believe it or not one of them was still hunting this year and killed a 180-190 buck and the other two guys got a slap on the hand. They guys been poaching for years as they were thought by there fathers.


I see humanity now as one vast plant, needing for its
highest fulfillment only love, the natural blessings of the
great outdoors, and intelligent crossing and selection.
Luther Burbank
 
I'm starting to identify as a 16 year old, New Mexico resident....

That's a thing now, right??

Just another example of NMGF raping and pillaging what little good is left in my home state.
 
the G&F has gotten greedy and is giving too may tags in general which is ruining some good units. It's ok to allot a certain number of tags for the youth but I don't agree in giving them first shot. They're hunts should be the same time as regular hunts. Also the age should be raised.
 
A waiting period is better than OIL. OIL is a dumb proposition in most cases. 5 years. That way a youth can only have the chance of twice max before 18 and make the minimum age to apply be 12 in cases like this.

I agree some dads, uncles, and even grandpas are the hunter and just take jr along to hold the tag...

Pics of nice deer I have seen this year were shot by 14 to 17 year old class range kids.
 
There is nothing wrong with having it OIL, after 18 they can apply in that unit just like the rest of us. I have only ever drawn 1 tag in 2B in the last 28 years for archery, I have put it down as my 1st choice every year!

I believe youth should have opportunity hunts but 150 tags in this migration unit should upset the Ute Res and the CDOW, total mismanagement of our depleting deer herds.

G&F argument that youth are not hunting anymore so lets give them the best tags so they can be successful is a emotional decision at best and should rightly piss every hunter off in this state, where is the science based information at to back this up. (G&F did away with Nov. hunts 25-30 years ago, but no, its good to have them now for opportunity...common) Youth not hunting is a parental problem and should not be a slaughter of such a delicate resource for opportunity!

I don't have any children but like I said above the youth should have opportunity hunts, these hunts should in no way impact any species in such a way that will take years to fix. And yes I have given my time to youth by teaching Hunters Ed for 12 years and I care more about Mule Deer than probably any other species in NM, Please hunters if you care about mule deer become a member or even a life member to the Mule Deer Foundation if you can, we are in this together someone has to be accountable and right now that is NMDG&F.
 
>There is nothing wrong with having
>it OIL, after 18 they
>can apply in that unit
>just like the rest of
>us. I have only ever
>drawn 1 tag in 2B
>in the last 28 years
>for archery, I have put
>it down as my 1st
>choice every year!
>
>I believe youth should have opportunity
>hunts but 150 tags in
>this migration unit should upset
>the Ute Res and the
>CDOW, total mismanagement of our
>depleting deer herds.
>
>G&F argument that youth are not
>hunting anymore so lets give
>them the best tags so
>they can be successful is
>a emotional decision at best
>and should rightly piss every
>hunter off in this state,
>where is the science based
>information at to back this
>up. (G&F did
>away with Nov. hunts 25-30
>years ago, but no, its
>good to have them now
>for opportunity...common) Youth not hunting
>is a parental problem and
>should not be a slaughter
>of such a delicate resource
>for opportunity!
>
>I don't have any children but
>like I said above the
>youth should have opportunity hunts,
>these hunts should in no
>way impact any species in
>such a way that will
>take years to fix. And
>yes I have given my
>time to youth by teaching
>Hunters Ed for 12 years
>and I care more about
>Mule Deer than probably any
>other species in NM, Please
>hunters if you care about
>mule deer become a member
>or even a life member
>to the Mule Deer Foundation
>if you can, we are
>in this together someone has
>to be accountable and right
>now that is NMDG&F.

^^^^^^^^
AMEN
 
nmbighorn AMEN plus 2!
Roadrunner, OIL is not dumb. What is ?dumb? is having a youth who has drawn once, applying again successfully a second or even a third time and taking away the opportunity of another youth who has NEVER drawn period!
 
Some youth are just lucky to draw tags. I had my boys do their hunter safety when they turned 10 and 11 yrs old. They only drew once and that was their 4th choice(2B September archery) now they are are 18 and 19 years old. I just think too many tags are being issued and tags need to be cut in half or a third. Just my opinion.
Happy Thanksgiving fellow hunters!!
 
NMBIGHORN , you have put 2B January archery as your first choice every year for 28 years and have only drawn it 1 time?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-19 AT 10:36PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-19 AT 10:35?PM (MST)

Limited access applying is better with waiting periods. Why is NM's first solution to everything have to be OIL all the time?

This was not a migration hunt. CO and SUITS shoot deer this time of year all the time, so why should they be mad? If there were so many migration deer killed on this hunt, my hell! - every bowhunter in Jan should kill a decent buck, but they don't.

You want to improve deer numbers climb on the idiot politicians that have made it near impossible to shoot coyotes and bump up the kill of lions. The idiot politicians have done more to hurt the deer nose count than this youth hunt ever could have. If CO and the SUIT's were that hopping mad, they would tell NM to get their predation problem in check.

The second thing is to eliminate deer hunt in all the unit 2 sub units for 3 to 5 years. That will get the numbers back up and improve overall quality. The Jic's did that and now produce some good bucks.

I have not hunted 2B in Jan since it went to a draw...
 
NMBIGHORN,

No wonder your mad... 28 years and one archery tag? Yet all these youth smoking them left and right haha.

I don't agree with you on the whole opportunity part. What hunts out there have the most type of opportunity? THESE ONES!

And for youth having these tags, smoking a big one then the next year passing decent bucks and not killing one because they held out seems like a great life learning lesson that they are gonna experience regardless.

That comment had me rollin hahaha

I hope G&F keeps these hunts

Good stuff... keep this going!
 
Jeez, stop crying about youth hunts. It is about the best thing NMGF does.
I don't have a youth in the game anymore, but, I completely encourage it.
If you dont like it, go out there and mentor a youth, help them apply and help them hunt.
Way more fulfilling than a grown man worrying that a kid has a tag he wants.
 
If you dont like it, go out there and mentor a youth, help them apply and help them hunt.
Way more fulfilling than a grown man worrying that a kid has a tag he wants.

That's it in a nut shell,
Total agreement.
 
>Way more fulfilling than a grown
>man worrying that a kid
>has a tag he wants.
>

Always thought it to be asinine to be jealous of a 14 year old with a rifle deer "rut-hunt".

If the shoe were on the other foot, no-one (adult) would say a word.

Talk about a sense of entitlement...
 
>Jeez, stop crying about youth hunts.
> It is about the
>best thing NMGF does.
>I don't have a youth in
>the game anymore, but, I
>completely encourage it.
>If you dont like it, go
>out there and mentor a
>youth, help them apply and
>help them hunt.
>Way more fulfilling than a grown
>man worrying that a kid
>has a tag he wants.
>


"Jealousy" is the lowest form of protest to this kind of thing. From my perspective, it has absolutely nothing to do with that. My opinion is that if they were going to move this hunt from October, to the peak of the rut, there is no way the tag numbers should remain the same.
There is nothing more vulnerable than a Muley buck in peak rut. Offer tags, to the kids and hunt them... Awesome... But in the name of some kind of management, it's irresponsible to keep tag numbers exactly the same. The outcome in December is a far cry from the outcome in October.

There's very, very few gems in NM that, in my Opinion, the NMGFD hasn't mismanaged to maintain some age class and sex ratios that are something to aspire to.

About the only things they really manage well are the Elk (and they're pretty hard to abuse anyway) and the Sheep. Just my .02
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 11:05PM (MST)[p]>>Jeez, stop crying about youth hunts.
>> It is about the
>>best thing NMGF does.
>>I don't have a youth in
>>the game anymore, but, I
>>completely encourage it.
>>If you dont like it, go
>>out there and mentor a
>>youth, help them apply and
>>help them hunt.
>>Way more fulfilling than a grown
>>man worrying that a kid
>>has a tag he wants.
>>
>
>
>"Jealousy" is the lowest form of
>protest to this kind of
>thing. From my
>perspective, it has absolutely nothing
>to do with that.
> My opinion is that
>if they were going to
>move this hunt from October,
>to the peak of the
>rut, there is no way
>the tag numbers should remain
>the same.
>There is nothing more vulnerable than
>a Muley buck in peak
>rut. Offer tags, to
>the kids and hunt them...
>Awesome... But in the
>name of some kind of
>management, it's irresponsible to keep
>tag numbers exactly the same.
> The outcome in December
>is a far cry from
>the outcome in October.
>
>There's very, very few gems in
>NM that, in my Opinion,
>the NMGFD hasn't mismanaged to
>maintain some age class and
>sex ratios that are something
>to aspire to.
>
>About the only things they really
>manage well are the Elk
>(and they're pretty hard to
>abuse anyway) and the Sheep.
> Just my .02
>


Agree 100%. Couldn?t of said it any better Gringo!!
 
>>Jeez, stop crying about youth hunts.
>> It is about the
>>best thing NMGF does.
>>I don't have a youth in
>>the game anymore, but, I
>>completely encourage it.
>>If you dont like it, go
>>out there and mentor a
>>youth, help them apply and
>>help them hunt.
>>Way more fulfilling than a grown
>>man worrying that a kid
>>has a tag he wants.
>>
>
>
>"Jealousy" is the lowest form of
>protest to this kind of
>thing. From my
>perspective, it has absolutely nothing
>to do with that.
> My opinion is that
>if they were going to
>move this hunt from October,
>to the peak of the
>rut, there is no way
>the tag numbers should remain
>the same.
>There is nothing more vulnerable than
>a Muley buck in peak
>rut. Offer tags, to
>the kids and hunt them...
>Awesome... But in the
>name of some kind of
>management, it's irresponsible to keep
>tag numbers exactly the same.
> The outcome in December
>is a far cry from
>the outcome in October.
>
>There's very, very few gems in
>NM that, in my Opinion,
>the NMGFD hasn't mismanaged to
>maintain some age class and
>sex ratios that are something
>to aspire to.
>
>About the only things they really
>manage well are the Elk
>(and they're pretty hard to
>abuse anyway) and the Sheep.
> Just my .02
>
I agree with most of that. Probably not for you, but, most of the anti youth hunts are motivated by jealousy. NMGF is not going to manage for age class or success rates even. Look what they do to the deer in 34 every year.
I do agree that the best hunts should continue to be youth hunts. I was very serious about aggressively getting younger kids applying for these hunts and then mentoring them. Way more benefit for everyone involved.
Very rare kids are shooting 180-200 inch bucks in NM. Very rare. It is a easy hunt, and most kill the first mature deer they see. I am all in to discuss management of NM deer population.
However, attacking youth hunts shows some peoples jealousy.
 
Pretty sure most agree there were far too many tags for both unit 2 sub units.

The peak of the rut wasn't last week. It is this week and next week. Hunt cow elk in Dec and you'll know what I'm talking about.

My youth hunter killed their first deer this year, a two year old buck. The youth's mentor (me) was not about to make the mistake to satisfy my ego and make them hold out for a 160"+ deer.

The intent was to increase the chance for a kiddo to take a deer before life gets in their way.
 
Just curious what everyone's thoughts would be to get rid of the last riffle hunt (475 tags). If people are so worried about the number of deer being killed, then get rid of that one and keep the youth hunt at 150 tags. Seems like that would be the same or less deer being harvest and still keep the youth hunt as a great experience. Just curious.

I understand the G&F would not want to lose out on that revenue, but besides that. Thoughts?
 
the hunters are worried about the deer, the G&F is worried about the revenue. tags are revenue for the department. why else would units like 9 and 12, soon to be 13 be ruined because of giving too many tags?
 
Great hunt for the kids. All the grown men crying about this youth opportunity is ridiculous. Just wait for the harvest reports on bucks killed in 2b. 1150 adult rifle tags and only 150 youth. Lol I bet harvest will show that majority of these migration bucks bucks are hammered by grown men. Think the adult tags could be cut in half to increase quality. I'd rather a youth get a nice trophy than any grown man every time. Theres nothing like when a youth is successful in harvesting.
 
too many tags being issued for this unit that will make this unit decline in deer numbers and not because of the youth hunt. This unit issues 1875 tags from sept archery through the Jan archery season. That's one hunting season and out of that many tags only 240 youth tags are issued and we have are complaining on the youth hunt being right in the middle of the rut.
 
I agree that there are too many tags overall for the unit. Youth hunters aren't the problem. Maybe the poor buck to doe ratio in 2B over the next year or two will finally cause some change to the management. I think the best solution would be to cut the number of rifle tags in half and give 50 youth tags during each of the three rifle seasons.
 

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