Tips for a persistence hunt?

T

tincankilla

Guest
first time poster here and could use some insight from some Oregon hunters. This isn't a joke, I just need some advice. I grew up hunting elk in the northern coast range and mule deer outside of k-falls, but I live out-of-state now and i'm not as familiar with the hunting units east of the Cascades.

here's the issue: a friend and I are interested in doing a super-traditional hunt in Oregon this fall. Not with a muzzleloader or a bow, not a spear or an atl atl, but a "persistence hunt" where you take advantage of human endurance to literally chase an animal until it collapses.

yeah, it's weird, but i've run marathons and I like stalking, so i'd like to combine the two!

the tricky part is how to fit this type of hunt into Oregon's game laws and hunting units.

First, would a spear or knife kill be legal in Oregon? I suppose I can get a bowhunting license and carry a bow to finish the job. I do want it to be clean and humane, but the less weight my buddy and I carry, the better.

Second, do you all have any recommendations on hunting units in Oregon? Flatter with fewer trees will be best, but also large enough that the animal won't leave the unit during the chase (i expect 10-20 miles).

Third, any personal stories about the endurance of deer, antelope, etc you can share? I know that they're fast over short distances, but how about long?
 
As odd as the ODFW rules are, I am sure this will be illegal!

But this does sound one hell of a good time! I am sure this can be accomplished! I have tried to track down a WALKING bull elk...up to 3 feet of snow, ALL DAY.....he still out WALKED me.....guess I am not the one to give you any advice on this subject! lol
 
I don't think anyone could track down or sneak up on a antelope, not out in the open praire, or out pace one until it gets pooped out, and then try and spear or knife it!
Not attacking you but I THINK it's impossable, if not aganst the game laws in oregon.
 
I know you said this isn't a joke, but I find that hard to believe. You want to chase a deer down and kill it with a knife? Yeah right. Not gonna happen.
 
Now this post is just plain nuts!
If this dude really wants an answer to his question, why in the heck hasn't he already contacted ODFW???
 
I saw this done in a video by African natives. Good luck trying this in Oregon with mountains and thick brush. By the time you caught up to an elk, he would be rested and ready to go again. It would take you so long to track an animal and catch up to it. So many times I am in animals and there are no tracks because there is nothing to leave tracks in and there are a ton of other tracks too. The time it takes to discern which one is which and which way they went, you can't catch up to an animal that you are pushing.

Besides, I believe this is illegal and would fall under the harassment of wildlife.
 
Hey guys - thanks for your responses, you sound like all the older hunters in my family! I don't mind the ribbing, since you're also pointing out the limits to the strategy.

We're certainly not going for antelope (too fast and hard to keep your eye on one animal within the herd) or elk (as they stick to forests and mountains). So that leaves deer. The anecdotes I know from hunting suggest that deer are wily and fast, but are quick to tire on the run. If I can run 26 miles at a time (been there, done that), id think that'd be enough. As for terrain, the units in the flat spaces of eastern OR would be best. Perhaps outside Baker City?

As far as the kill, I'm happy to carry a bow, so i'd be within ODFW weapons regs. The harassment charge might be an issue, but we'd be licensed hunters. Plus, how is this less harassing than wounding an animal and chasing its blood trail through the woods? As least on the run, it has a fair chance to escape without dying miserably through blood loss, infection, or coyotes. We might have a high failure rate, but that just leaves a deer with sore muscles and a funny story to tell his friends.

Assuming that ODFW clears this - any recommendations on hunting units with the right terrain?
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-10 AT 10:54AM (MST)[p]Best tip yet! Maybe we'll just wear the bigfoot feet, then call in a tip to the local loonies.
 
Come on guys, how about a little support for the new guy with the crazy idea! Just think, we encourage him a little and we may get the funniest story ever posted on here. Just imagine if he did finally run one down after a 15 mile chase and then went to stabbing it! GO FOR IT TINCANKILLA!!!!! Just tell us if it works
 
thanks for the encouragement! I'll take photos, as no one will believe me otherwise.

in terms of the science involved, four-footed animals have a disadvantage over long distances:

first, breathing. quadrapeds can only drawn one breath while on the run due to their innards sloshing against their diaphram. that limits oxygen flow, leading to exhaustion.

second, cooling. not only do they have hair, but their limited breathing keeps them from cooling off as well as human can.

third, fueling. humans are natural runners and two feet require far less energy to move of distance than four. humans can pack high-calorie foods and water along with them, too, keeping the animal from grazing while on the hoof.

I do suspect that the run will mean the meat won't be as tasty, due to the lactic acid build up. but who knows?
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-10 AT 12:44PM (MST)[p]"As far as the kill, I'm happy to carry a bow, so it'd be within ODFW weapons regs."

so we now find out it's just a bow hunt.
That's a long way from running one down.
 
I think coast range elk would be easiest to run down as they generally don't run far. Deer in the desert would be hardest as they could easily get a day ahead of you and be rested by the time you caught up with it (I've jumped deer in the Whitehorse unit and they ran as fast as they could until you could just see a cloud of dust going over the horizon 5 miles away).

Curious to know if this has been done before?
 
Running a marathon on even terrain is one thing, doing it through the woods, over deadfall, up and down is a completely different thing. How do you plan on being able to track this animal you're chasing in a timely fashion? And like already mentioned public vs private land could likely be an issue.
 
I think you should try tracking down a mountian lion, going up the tree or in the cave when you get one cornered, then go at it one on one with your big knife-
dollar says I know who wins!
 
Did you get this idea from Born to Run (book by Christopher McDougall)? I have to admit, as a fellow marathoner, that after reading that book the idea piqued my interest.

There are some problems I came up with, though, in adapting it from the African plains to the U.S. West:

First, you must either keep an eye on or be able to track a solitary animal. Unless you grew up a tracker like those Africans in the book, I suspect you will have trouble distinguishing your quarry's tracks from all the other deer tracks on the ground. Maybe not? Maybe this is feasible, but it would be hard for me, especially to do it at a pace quick enough to keep pressure on the deer.
So if you can't trust your tracking ability then you'll need to count on keeping regular glimpses of the deer. Which, as you pointed out, means you should be looking for flattish terrain without trees. I don't know the whole West, but much of what I do know in the sage brush flatlands is full of coulees, draws, and rivers. I think it would be hard to keep tabs on a single deer in that country. Plus, you and your quarry are likely to have chance encounters with many other deer over a 10-20 mile jaunt.

Second, as noted above, you have private property to deal with. It seems like your best bet is to find a 20-mile radius of public ground, then go find a deer in the middle. Might I also suggest peppering it with a paintball gun when you first spot it?? :)

You're exactly right that humans are better built for long distance and given no hiding places or chances to mingle with other animals, you'd easily run a deer down. It's not a game of outrunning it over an hour, but rather over the course of six hours or a day.

Not sure about the legality of it, but ODFW should be able to answer that. Surely they get questions (and have official answers) for things like spears, ambushes, or knives? If you think you can strap a light bow to your back to make it a legal hunt then go for it. You'll know when you walk up to an exhausted deer whether you've accomplished your task or not - at that point the final method of kill shouldn't matter.

Good luck on it. I think it's a really interesting idea and certainly fun for discussion. If you haven't already, consider eastern WY or MT. I did some pheasant hunting around the Milk River in MT and when we got up on the plateaus there were some long, flat stretches up there. Seems like the kind of country you might be looking for.
 
Oh yea good luck can't wait to hear how this one turns out. I know of radio collar studies on mule deer where they have migrated (walking) 20-30 miles in a day. Who knows how far they could move if pushed. They will easily go out of site so then how do you know your chasing the same animal? Interesting idea and not being critical but it ain't going to happen!
 
Like stated earlier coastal elk is the best bet. I know that can be done seen two different herds chased down in one day and a bull harvested from both, then the tricky part is killing it. LOL

CW
 
Monster Muleys is like a box of chocolates! YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT KIND OF AN IDIOT IS GOING TO POST SOMETHING STUPID!! This is by far the dumbest thing I have ever heard! I could see if this guy wanted to wear loin cloth, shoot his long bow, and live off the land! That would be kinda fun!

Has anyone ever tried to eat or drink while they are running, or even walking?

I just read on ODFW's website that they are proposing an endurance knife hunt in the Wenaha for bulls! Must have a 6 inch or larger blade, runners have to wear camo shorts shorter than finger tip length, have to like eating granola so their brains don't produce any brain cells to think like a normal human being! I should have copy and pasted it to get all of the facts, sorry guys!!

I think I might burn my 9 points on it next year!! Any tips would be great!!
 
LAST EDITED ON May-17-10 AT 10:03AM (MST)[p]Per ODFW: It is perfectly legal as long as "person in persuit is naked."

I've seen this done before many times. BY WOLVES.

'Coastal elk the best chance?' Smoke some more crack.

You've accomplished something on MM that no one has every done before....you just made KillerBee look smart.

HK
 
LAST EDITED ON May-17-10 AT 10:24AM (MST)[p]whuppinstick: yes, exactly! Born to Run and a conversation with a friend of mine who competes in triathlons and spends time in the backcountry. I've hunted most of my life, but I've never been too thrilled with the methods (not that I don't like guns).

As for your points:

Tracking, keeping up through backcountry terrain, and staying on public lands are key concern of ours - that's why the unit geography will be key. I don't really know which place in Oregon is the right one for us, though. A high grassland or plateau would be perfect, so WY or eastern MT are also possibilities.

Believe it or not, but I've also considered the paintball idea to mark an animal at the outset. Another approach is to pick a buck with a unique set of antlers, but sometimes it's hard just to find a buck at all.

As for the kill, I've discovered a compact compound bow produced by Liberty Archery. It should fit in a backpack until the animal drops and we catch up. (So yeah, guys, that technically makes this a bow hunt, but that's the point. it's also a bow hunt with a 5 foot shot at an animal laying down after running 20 miles.)
 
Thanks for the You tube, Greatbasin. Interesting video and the comments below the screen are hilarious.
I wonder if this is where tincan got the idea?
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-17-10
>AT 10:03?AM (MST)
>
>Per ODFW: It is perfectly
>legal as long as "person
>in persuit is naked."
>
>I've seen this done before many
>times. BY WOLVES.
>
>'Coastal elk the best chance?'
>Smoke some more crack.
>
>You've accomplished something on MM that
>no one has every done
>before....you just made KillerBee look
>smart.
>
>HK

your honestly a fag;)




on topic, i dont believe there is a chance in hell of you doing this, heck HKSHOOTER cant even seem to find deer or elk in this state? how do you expect to find one let alone run it down?
 
Great video. I didn't know KBkiller was african. Huh. I guess he really is all he spews about. Nice kill KB. You're a true warrior.

On a serious note, I wonder how that thing tasted? Like leather I'm guessing.

HK
 
I've sen a version of this persistence hunting all ready being done during coastal elk season. But these guys use 4x4 and run the roads as fast as they can until they find a herd in the road. I think the road hunters got one up on you tinkiller.
 
LOL at some of the reply's.
I was being honest when I said a coastal bull hunt is your best bet. It is exactly what you want to tire the animal out, tracking is a lot easier because the ground is softer. I shouldn't use the word easy when it comes to tracking elk. You will probable be disappointed if you do this hunt it is not the flat desert you look for, but it is manageable. The hardest part is the kill and finding the elk, if your in as good of shape as you say your in you wont have a problem running them down if you can track. Oh another problem I just thought of was if and when the herd splits you staying with the bull.

CW
 
or you could always just get a bunch of pictures from all your buddies bulls they have killed, include some of you helping pack them out, then post them on here as yours. right HKSHOOTER??



seriously, you would have to be a dumb fu** to try that- right HKSHOOTER?:)
 
Hey KBafrican. How do you say "grow up" in your native tongue. You are a lot skinnier than I expected. But man you can run.


I wonder if KBafrican could track an antelope across eastern Oregon? I'm almost positive he could as he is the greatest hunter on earth (at least that is what he spews). We should import him and see if this "persistence" hunt could be done by a true warrior on US soil.

HK
 
thats funny. you come up with "KBafrican" and then tell me to grow up. "i know you are, but what am i?" or "i'm rubber, your glue, bounces off me and sticks to you"
got ya.......
 
Uh oh another "thread" cop. They are everywhere on MM's!!!

Don't deviate from the topic!!!!!!! Oh my god!!!!!!

By the way I think you can say anything you want on any thread!!
 
Jazz, get a clue. The LOL in my post would lean towards I'm just having fun. I guess I will spell it out for you next time
 
(sorry to disappear for a while - my account got nixed by the admin on accident. thanks to all of you for your thoughts and comments, even the mocking ones. a little teasing helps me keep my feet on the ground)

TO RETURN TO ONE OF MY ORIGINAL QUESTIONS: which eastern Oregon hunting unit or area would you suggest?

I'm now thinking about the following areas:

- somewhere on US-20, SE of Bend and near Brothers, OR
- further north around Fossil
- center East, near Baker City
- SE Oregon in the corner of the state

Here's a googlemaps shot from outside Brothers:
http://bit.ly/aYAQu0

anyone know about deer density and public lands there?
 
Sorry about the mountian lion jib, sounds like your going to try it no matter what anyone says.
But I have to tell you that the spot you picked out by Brothers is not a good deer area, have drove though there many times on the way to east or. and have never seen a deer anywhere out there.
Lots of jackrabbits, but no deer.
 
>(sorry to disappear for a while
>- my account got nixed
>by the admin on accident.
>thanks to all of you
>for your thoughts and comments,
>even the mocking ones.
>a little teasing helps me
>keep my feet on the
>ground)
>
>TO RETURN TO ONE OF MY
>ORIGINAL QUESTIONS: which eastern Oregon
>hunting unit or area would
>you suggest?
>
>I'm now thinking about the following
>areas:
>
>- somewhere on US-20, SE of
>Bend and near Brothers, OR
>
>- further north around Fossil
>- center East, near Baker City
>
>- SE Oregon in the corner
>of the state
>
>Here's a googlemaps shot from outside
>Brothers:
>http://bit.ly/aYAQu0
>
>anyone know about deer density and
>public lands there?


I saw a deer there once but "she" was chasing a guy with a spear!
 
>
>TO RETURN TO ONE OF MY
>ORIGINAL QUESTIONS: which eastern Oregon
>hunting unit or area would
>you suggest?
>


>
>- SE Oregon in the corner
>of the state
>

I don't know the terrain of eastern Oregon as well as the people who live there, but this option popped in my mind when I read your last post: Trout Creek Mtns. traditional archery. They have unlimited tags for that unit (so you don't have to worry about a draw, the deadline for which has already passed this year). I have only driven through there once, but what I remember of it was somewhat sagey and also hilly. Not rolling, but going from flat up to the top of a mountain. I hadn't thought of this before, but that might be good terrain to try a persistence hunt on. If you come in from below and try to push the animal up you'll be at an advantage for keeping an eye on him. I can see that working on a slope might be easier than flat ground. Though the question of long mileage comes into play - not sure if you can find a 10 mile, treeless uphill slope.
Also, you could use a takedown bow and just fit it in your backpack (I have the Predator Hunter and it fits perfectly into a pack) without much added weight. If you really run down a deer you could afford the 2 minutes it takes to set the bow up.
 
I live in Burns and have driven to Bend for work several times a month over the past 3 years. I've seen many a critter off highway 20 in the Brothers area but... never even one deer. You're all welcome to tell me how terrible my eyes are and how poor of a scouter I am, but that's the reality from my perspective.

You could probably find some deer closer to Burns or Bend, but I'd guess they would retreat to the mountains quite quickly when preassured.

I REALLY doubt whuppinstick has an iota of a chance of being successful, but what the hell... I agree, it will be a good story anyway.

whuppinstick: Have you considered spending a lot of time glassing trying to find a sick or injured animal? Not sure I would be to excited abbout wrestling and eating a sicky, but that might put you in the ball game at least.
 
Maybe whuppinstick will join me.

As for us-20, robinsg61le, I completely believe you. If I were a deer, I wouldn't hang out in the wide open with no shade, either. Any other suggestions, though?

I'm not up for a sick deer, but might settle for a doe. Keep in mind that I won't be devastated if I don't fill my tag - if we test the theory and have a good run in beautiful backcountry, it'll still be worth it.
 
>?!?!?!?....Dang! Now is Whuppinstick gonna
>do this too?
>:)


haha, ask me again in a month when I have rejection letters from all the draws...
 
hey all,

thought that i should give an update, as you all were gracious enough to answer questions and laugh at my crazy idea!

unfortunately, about 6 weeks prior to our planned persistence hunt, my friend crashed his bicycle right before a big race. he's fine now (though the stop sign will never recover), but ended up really hurting his neck and spine. so the hunt was off while he hobbled around in portland.

maybe next year??

thanks,

tck
 

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