Today's Tactics and Gadgetry

Hey 1911!

How Many Notches does your Walnut Stick Have?

Mines Has Plenty!

Most of them are Battle Wounds Though, while being Used & Abused for 40+ years in the Field!

The Modern Day Deer/Bucks Don't even Recognize what We're Packing!:D









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-19 AT 09:28AM (MST)[p]This issue is pretend vs reality.

A guy spends time on the mountain and finds a spring or wallow. He finds acorns, or good grass. He returns and kills something that is hardwired with the knowledge of where these things are. REALITY

A guy hauls a bunch of salt or apples into a spot to change patterns. Then tells everyone it's no different than eating an Apple and dropping core on the ground.
PRETEND

Guy spends time, hours, bootleather on the mtn. Finds animals. Patterns animals. REALITY

Guy drops a cam, sits on his couch and livestreams. Then tells everyone it's the same.
PRETEND

Guy grabs a ballistic calculator, wind meter, thermal scope. Shoots deer that stayed a safe distance away or hidden. Tells everyone it's no difference than a 3x9, or compound bow. PRETEND

Pulling cams during hunts, banning artificial imaging, banning electronic shooting aids, banning baiting would mean nothing to 90% of hunters.

The others, as well as guides will scream and yell, but so? We don't have hunting to create a commercial business. If one comes from it GREAT, but the tail should not wag the dog.

I've said it a couple times on this one. If the REALITY is that bait, cams, electronics are every bit the same as anything else, then why do guys try so hard to PRETEND they don't use that stuff.

I'll buy the argument the first time I see a deer posed on top of an Apple pile.


At one time there were no bag limits, no seasons, no regs.

REALITY

If you have regs, limit new tech, the antis win.

PRETEND


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Don't these trail cameras that can send you the pictures too your phone sitting on your couch need cell service. I really do not know much about trail cameras I have only played around with one and that was around 15 years ago.
 
REALITY

If you actively work to eliminate a hunting method you are dividing us, the antis win, and become emboldened by your actions.

ie: Colorado spring bear hunts, bear baiting, running bears with hounds, trapping.....


#livelikezac
 
>REALITY
>
>If you actively work to eliminate
>a hunting method you are
>dividing us, the antis win,
>and become emboldened by your
>actions.
>
>ie: Colorado spring bear hunts, bear
>baiting, running bears with hounds,
>trapping.....
>
>
>#livelikezac


If you think a dude outfitted like a Storm trooper from star wars, video taping the entire West is something ALL hunters MUST support or hunting is gone. GOOD LUCK.


If you don't know the difference between predator management and commercial big game hunting, I don't know what to say.

Notdon. I believe they do require cell service. TODAY. Sat phones used to be rare and too expensive. A garmin in reach mini is $299.


DW? I lost my quote in your tag? Wth?

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
The others are things that were drilled into us at a young age. -DW

I agree 100%. What is the hunting culture teaching our next generation? That baiting is normal? That electronic shooting aids is normal? That artificial imaging is normal? That live stream cams is normal?

It's a freaking cop out for you or anyone to say "it's a new tech" or " it's not capable of it".
You can see the progression of tech, how it's used, and where it's headed. If you don't. Check the military channel. It flows downhill. All these tech gadgets are going to get smaller, faster, more efficient, and cheaper. Self aiming, GPS guided, and eventually nano tech are in the doorstep.

WE are at the point those guys who drilled into our heads were at when they imposed limits, seasons, bag limits.

Our job is to not sit back and watch a very loud, connected few, destroy what we inherited, so they can make a buck, or get a like or follower.

Thing is. I doubt you use FLIR. I doubt you LR. I would bet you don't stream cams either. If it's stopped Tommorow, what did you loose? The option?


the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>
>
>The others are things that were
>drilled into us at a
>young age. -DW
>
>I agree 100%. What is
>the hunting culture teaching our
>next generation? That baiting
>is normal? That electronic
>shooting aids is normal?
>That artificial imaging is normal?
> That live stream cams
>is normal?
>
>It's a freaking cop out for
>you or anyone to say
>"it's a new tech" or
>" it's not capable of
>it".
>You can see the progression of
>tech, how it's used, and
>where it's headed. If
>you don't. Check the
>military channel. It flows
>downhill. All these tech
>gadgets are going to get
>smaller, faster, more efficient, and
>cheaper. Self aiming, GPS
>guided, and eventually nano tech
>are in the doorstep.
>
>WE are at the point those
>guys who drilled into our
>heads were at when they
>imposed limits, seasons, bag limits.
>
>
>Our job is to not sit
>back and watch a very
>loud, connected few, destroy what
>we inherited, so they can
>make a buck, or get
>a like or follower.
>
>Thing is. I doubt you
>use FLIR. I doubt
>you LR. I would
>bet you don't stream cams
>either. If it's stopped
>Tommorow, what did you loose?
> The option?
>
>
> the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


And again, as I've said previously in this thread, technology in hunting has to be reigned in. The question is where do we draw the line? Where I say it should be drawn will be different than where you, or slam, or grizz say it should be drawn. As an example I'll be so bold as to tell you where I'd draw it and you can tell me I'm wrong. Game cams are gone, scopes above 9 power are gone, along with range compensating scopes, flir is a no brainer, Range finders are gone, spotting scopes are gone, gps' are gone, atv's and anything similar are gone, no baiting ungulates(c'mon, we ain't Texans!), scopes on muzzleloaders are gone(who does that to a muzzleloader anyway? Fuggin cucks!), inreach, spot, onyx or any similar apps are gone, scents and odor eliminating products are gone, anything more than 3 fixed pins on a bow are gone, bows over 300fps are gone, crossguns....do I even have to mention them? Now at this point yer either laughin cause you think I'm crazy, cheerin cause you completely agree with me, or you wanna choke me cause I've eliminated somethin you currently legally use. Those that want to completely eliminate us from the circle see the friction and decide to try to ban bobcat hunting (which they tried here this summer). You want to choke me because I eliminated your gps and you don't hunt bobcats so you say screw that guy, he dealt me dirty so I'm damn sure not gonna help him with his bobcat fight. Now we're weaker, and we're weak already because there are so few of us to begin with. Somedays I think tristates right, we're all just fightin to kill the last deer.....

(((dawning flame retardant suit)))

#livelikezac
 
>>
>>
>>The others are things that were
>>drilled into us at a
>>young age. -DW
>>
>>I agree 100%. What is
>>the hunting culture teaching our
>>next generation? That baiting
>>is normal? That electronic
>>shooting aids is normal?
>>That artificial imaging is normal?
>> That live stream cams
>>is normal?
>>
>>It's a freaking cop out for
>>you or anyone to say
>>"it's a new tech" or
>>" it's not capable of
>>it".
>>You can see the progression of
>>tech, how it's used, and
>>where it's headed. If
>>you don't. Check the
>>military channel. It flows
>>downhill. All these tech
>>gadgets are going to get
>>smaller, faster, more efficient, and
>>cheaper. Self aiming, GPS
>>guided, and eventually nano tech
>>are in the doorstep.
>>
>>WE are at the point those
>>guys who drilled into our
>>heads were at when they
>>imposed limits, seasons, bag limits.
>>
>>
>>Our job is to not sit
>>back and watch a very
>>loud, connected few, destroy what
>>we inherited, so they can
>>make a buck, or get
>>a like or follower.
>>
>>Thing is. I doubt you
>>use FLIR. I doubt
>>you LR. I would
>>bet you don't stream cams
>>either. If it's stopped
>>Tommorow, what did you loose?
>> The option?
>>
>>
>> the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>
>And again, as I've said previously
>in this thread, technology in
>hunting has to be reigned
>in. The question is where
>do we draw the line?
>Where I say it should
>be drawn will be different
>than where you, or slam,
>or grizz say it should
>be drawn. As an example
>I'll be so bold as
>to tell you where I'd
>draw it and you can
>tell me I'm wrong. Game
>cams are gone, scopes above
>9 power are gone, along
>with range compensating scopes, flir
>is a no brainer, Range
>finders are gone, spotting scopes
>are gone, gps' are gone,
>atv's and anything similar are
>gone, no baiting ungulates(c'mon, we
>ain't Texans!), scopes on muzzleloaders
>are gone(who does that to
>a muzzleloader anyway? Fuggin cucks!),
>inreach, spot, onyx or any
>similar apps are gone, scents
>and odor eliminating products are
>gone, anything more than 3
>fixed pins on a bow
>are gone, bows over 300fps
>are gone, crossguns....do I even
>have to mention them? Now
>at this point yer either
>laughin cause you think I'm
>crazy, cheerin cause you completely
>agree with me, or you
>wanna choke me cause I've
>eliminated somethin you currently legally
>use. Those that want to
>completely eliminate us from the
>circle see the friction and
>decide to try to ban
>bobcat hunting (which they tried
>here this summer). You want
>to choke me because I
>eliminated your gps and you
>don't hunt bobcats so you
>say screw that guy, he
>dealt me dirty so I'm
>damn sure not gonna help
>him with his bobcat fight.
>Now we're weaker, and we're
>weak already because there are
>so few of us to
>begin with. Somedays I think
>tristates right, we're all just
>fightin to kill the last
>deer.....
>
>(((dawning flame retardant suit)))
>
>#livelikezac

You know how to eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

So. Start with the most egregious and work backwards.

I have yet to see anyone back thermal.

So that's easy.

Live stream. Easy.

It will be a pretty quick line to LR after that.
Ban the electronics. The guns will still reach it. The scopes might see it. If you can dope wind in your head and do the math, no one can do much. But without the aids, very few can.



As to cams. Im not anti cam. Im anti cam during seasons.

1- it's hunting not founding.

2- dudes in checking cams disturb guys hunting earlier.

Aug 1 to Dec 31(or end of latest big game hunt)

Onx and clones don't really help in Raking big game. I believe they help maintain good relations between landowners and public.


But let's be honest. There are a small handful of issues that are pointed to by the vast majority of hunters. Electronics, LR, bait.

The rest become more individual.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
You know what's more expensive than Sitka? A wedding dress.

489276973051725849895915404531540448848877453312n.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-09-19
>AT 10:56?PM (MST)
>
>^^^DW, as to the scenarios I
>proposed, some of them aren't
>necessarily illegal (snow machines in
>deep snow, elk in pond,
>etc...). Did you click on
>the KSL link I posted
>above about the temporary fencing?
>Was he ever charged?
>
>If ethics are dependent upon legality,
>then is it ethical in
>Utah, but unethical in Colorado
>or Idaho, to bait big
>game? Do the deer know
>the difference when they cross
>the border? If a state
>bans hunting with hounds, does
>it then make it wrong?
>Or is it possible that
>right and wrong sometimes may
>not exactly track with the
>law?
>
>If FLIR isn't yet made illegal,
>does that therefore make it
>ethical and okay? Or is
>it okay for hunters to
>work to protect the sport
>and wildlife by saying it
>should be outlawed?
>
>If you make an argument that
>hound hunting is ethical, even
>if a state outlaws it...
>then you must open the
>door to the idea that
>baiting is unethical even if
>a state allows it. You
>can't have it both ways.
>
>
>Hunters are a largely self-policing group
>of people and have every
>right to discuss how they
>would like the sport represented
>and their wildlife managed.
>
>Simply because something isn't illegal doesn't
>make it right!

You keep bringing up that KSL link and asking about the consequences to Outfitter Wade Heaton. I can't tell you about the consequences of that specific incident, but it apparently turned out OK for him because HE'S NOW ONE OF THE NEWEST MEMBERS OF UTAH'S WILDLIFE BOARD! :)
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-09-19
>AT 10:56?PM (MST)
>
>^^^DW, as to the scenarios I
>proposed, some of them aren't
>necessarily illegal (snow machines in
>deep snow, elk in pond,
>etc...). Did you click on
>the KSL link I posted
>above about the temporary fencing?
>Was he ever charged?
>
>If ethics are dependent upon legality,
>then is it ethical in
>Utah, but unethical in Colorado
>or Idaho, to bait big
>game? Do the deer know
>the difference when they cross
>the border? If a state
>bans hunting with hounds, does
>it then make it wrong?
>Or is it possible that
>right and wrong sometimes may
>not exactly track with the
>law?
>
>If FLIR isn't yet made illegal,
>does that therefore make it
>ethical and okay? Or is
>it okay for hunters to
>work to protect the sport
>and wildlife by saying it
>should be outlawed?
>
>If you make an argument that
>hound hunting is ethical, even
>if a state outlaws it...
>then you must open the
>door to the idea that
>baiting is unethical even if
>a state allows it. You
>can't have it both ways.
>
>
>Hunters are a largely self-policing group
>of people and have every
>right to discuss how they
>would like the sport represented
>and their wildlife managed.
>
>Simply because something isn't illegal doesn't
>make it right!

And simply because something isn't illegal doesn't make it wrong either! If you claim one possibility, you also have to claim the other, right?
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-11-19 AT 10:09AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-11-19 AT 10:07?AM (MST)

Let me see if I have all of this right!

1- We now want to impose statewide "Fair Chase" rules and regulations established by several out-of-state special interest non-profit hunting groups for membership into their groups even on people who don't want to belong to their groups and for animals that wouldn't qualify anyway.

2- But we adamantly oppose other statewide rules and regulations established by certain other in-state special interest non-profit hunting groups that we consider "unfair".

3- We are willing to promote the claim that because the other local neighbors (states) are doing it, we should be doing it too, even without know why the other states are doing it, but we don't allow our own children to make that same claim for the things they want to do.

4- Killing an animal with bait is "heartless" (my favorite word in this whole thread) but it's not "heartless" to kill one primarily to mount their chemically tanned hides on a styrofoam head form in order to show their chemically treated velvet antlers on the wall in our new modern painted artificially lighted den as long as we don't use bait.

5- It's ok to lure the animal away from its "natural" pattern by calling with an artificial rubber-reed call, using a plastic decoy and a bottled scent rut lure, but it's not ok for me to use a few wormy, overripe, bird-pecked apples (about 20 to 30 that have fallen on the ground under the tree in my back yard) and/or salt to hold an animal at a guzzler that it's currently using or on a trail it's currently using long enough to make a standing broadside shot.

6- "Utah is the laughing stock of the west" even though Mike Fowlks, UDWR Director, was recently elected as President of the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies and is the director sponsor for the Mule Deer Working Group. The WAFWA consists of all of the wildlife agencies in the western states and western providences of Canada and Mexico. I guess those agencies never got the word.

7- The way we hunt not only determines our ethics, but, more importantly, our character.

8- All of these new technologies and technics spoil YOUR hunting even though they have no effect on the way you hunt and you're perfectly capable of continuing to hunt the way you choose to hunt now.

9- All of these new technologies and technics destroy the herds even though killing BUCKS (and bulls) have minimal effect, if any, on the populations since BUCKS STILL DON"T DELIVER, NURSE, PROTECT, nor NUTURE/EDUCATE fawns.

10- All of those years me, my dad, brothers, uncles and cousins chose to sit on hillsides waiting for "pursuers" to push the bucks to us isn't now considered ethical hunting 'cause we didn't "pursue" the bucks.

11-This is only a "discussion" not a case, even though baiting was discussed on the 2014 Mule Deer Committee I was on, and I recently received a survey form from the current Mule Deer Committee with a question asking if I supported or opposed baiting, and baiting is also an item om the Wildlife Board's action log. Looks like Grizz will have a vote, or at least a voice, after all. I wonder how he'll respond.

12- I don't have time for all the rest of the BS posted on this thread, but I will say it was a set-up by the OP to verify his preconceived opinions and it only became a "discussion" when several of us didn't agree with him and that's sad to see.

Edited: Oh, in case you missed it in my recent post above, regarding the KSL link Grizzly keeps referring to, the outfitter, Wade Heaton apparently survived the "trapped" game animal episode since he's now one of the new members of the Utah Wildlife Board. :)
 
Long post to say YES all this stuff is a major advantage.

How did you answer the survey?

Why was there a question on tge survey if it's not an issue?

Let's just assume other states banned it because they saw an issue. Not sure what other reason there would be.

Last. What possible good comes from real time cams and thermal.

No straw man.

Thermal imaging is good because......

Real time cams are good because......

I still have yet to hear 1 reason to support either, except, paying clients demand 100% success rates, so any and every means are necessary.


Last. A guy from a mule deer state got put on a mule deer group? I'll be danged. Obviously logic would say it should have been a dude from Florida?

Fair chase isn't some made up term. It's a group of principles published, and written on by B&C. It's a concept that works in coordination of North American Model.

Both of which sprung forth from a time of unlimited take, unlimited season, unlimited methods.

The Wildlife board and RAC are covered with a "special interest group", interestingly enough a group who's founder called for the end of the North American Model.



it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource- Don Peay

So it's not surprising that as other states see the explosion of tech as a negetive, that on Utah where a "special intetest group" writes the rules, those rules would reflect the opinions of that groups customer base, guides and their clients.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Not much I care to respond to there, EFA. Just not substantive enough to warrant it.

But I do have a question for you. Do you view Heaton being on the Wildlife Board after the "trapped" incident as justification that it is okay to do that? Or do you view it as evidence of the problem with Utah's Wildlife Board?

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>Not much I care to respond
>to there, EFA. Just not
>substantive enough to warrant it.
>
>


You said it, not me! None of this is substantive enough to warrant the existence of this thread, let alone responding with over 100 posts of "discussion" including your now 14 posts.


>But I do have a question
>for you. Do you view
>Heaton being on the Wildlife
>Board after the "trapped" incident
>as justification that it is
>okay to do that? Or
>do you view it as
>evidence of the problem with
>Utah's Wildlife Board?

I have the view that the "trapped" incident wasn't substantive enough to keep him off the Board.

This whole thread is "Seinfeld" or Shakspeare's "Much Ado About Nothing" because in the end, this gadgetry and these tactics mean nothing to the dead buck, nor to the DWR's biological management of the herds, nor to the populations of the herds, nor to the way you choose to hunt. They only pertain to your preconceived notion of what is "fair" to you.

>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>
 
Hey Hoss!

If You Knew How many of the Buck Pics Posted that were Chummed in with apples You'd really be Mad!

No!

They Ain't Showing you the Apple Pile!

And if they don't Show it!

It didn't Happen!

Right?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>Not much I care to respond
>>to there, EFA. Just not
>>substantive enough to warrant it.
>>
>>
>
>
>You said it, not me! None
>of this is substantive enough
>to warrant the existence of
>this thread, let alone responding
>with over 100 posts of
>"discussion" including your now 14
>posts.
>
>

None of those are substantial EFA, are you serious right now?
You don't think these things are taking place, or being used?

Do you really think the 1%'ers that consistently harvest these giant bucks aren't taking advantage of all the available gadgetry and loose laws we have here in Utah?

Why are you so mad and defending it all?
If you're not using any of these tactics to fill your own tags, then it shouldn't bother you so much to see a group of those who feel it's not right to use these try to make a few changes, no?
 
> Hey Hoss!
>
>If You Knew How many of
>the Buck Pics Posted that
>were Chummed in with apples
>You'd really be Mad!
>
>No!
>
>They Ain't Showing you the Apple
>Pile!
>
>And if they don't Show it!
>
>
>It didn't Happen!
>
>Right?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D


I ain't mad. But if a guy believes so strongly in it, why does he hide it?

Funny how the PRO guts like ELK don't explain WHY they are pro, only that everyone else is stupid.

Im still waiting to hear why thermal is a good idea

And why real time cams are.

Im sure all we will get is another bunch of posts saying how dumb everyone is.

Dudes saying it dont matter are like dudes sticking a needle in their azz swing steroids don't matter in football.

If I really isn't an advantage, why use it? Real time cams ain't cheap. FLIR is even more so. Bait costs money.
Simply profit loss. If a guide spends $5k for thermal, it has to return $5k in bookings or it was useless.

You don't spend money on cases of cams unless you recover the cost.

We cant get to a reasonable discussion on tech or gadgetry as long as one side tries to BS guys there is no difference.

No one gets everything in a negotiation, but the corporate interests sure believe they should.

Good news is this discussion isn't just in a forum. There will be lots of crying and moaning in tge not to distant future.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hey Hoss!

If You haven't Noticed there's enough people with more money than they can Spend, they're gonna try every Trick of the Trade no matter the cost!

Changing a bunch of Laws won't do SQUAT if they Ain't Enforced!

Who Loses again?

The Honest Hunter!



>> Hey Hoss!
>>
>>If You Knew How many of
>>the Buck Pics Posted that
>>were Chummed in with apples
>>You'd really be Mad!
>>
>>No!
>>
>>They Ain't Showing you the Apple
>>Pile!
>>
>>And if they don't Show it!
>>
>>
>>It didn't Happen!
>>
>>Right?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
>
>
>I ain't mad. But if
>a guy believes so strongly
>in it, why does he
>hide it?
>
>Funny how the PRO guts like
>ELK don't explain WHY they
>are pro, only that everyone
>else is stupid.
>
>Im still waiting to hear why
>thermal is a good idea
>
>
>And why real time cams are.
>
>
>Im sure all we will get
>is another bunch of posts
>saying how dumb everyone is.
>
>
>Dudes saying it dont matter are
>like dudes sticking a needle
>in their azz swing steroids
>don't matter in football.
>
>If I really isn't an advantage,
>why use it? Real
>time cams ain't cheap.
>FLIR is even more so.
> Bait costs money.
>Simply profit loss. If a
>guide spends $5k for thermal,
>it has to return $5k
>in bookings or it was
>useless.
>
>You don't spend money on cases
>of cams unless you recover
>the cost.
>
>We cant get to a reasonable
>discussion on tech or gadgetry
>as long as one side
>tries to BS guys there
>is no difference.
>
>No one gets everything in a
>negotiation, but the corporate interests
>sure believe they should.
>
>Good news is this discussion isn't
>just in a forum.
>There will be lots of
>crying and moaning in tge
>not to distant future.
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
slam,hoss and griz I am not defending the practice of baiting or the use of high tech gadgets I have clearly stated I do believe they will damage QUALITY of big game but my problem and I think some of the other posters is not in support of these practices but in support it is legal and the ones that chose to hunt that way have a right to hunt the way they choose as long as it is legal.
The state of Utah and some other states has decided to raise the speed limit to 80mph even though they know that if you get in a crash at them higher speeds it is more likely you will die and/or kill someone else. Most likely some of you guys do not agree with the higher speeds but I will bet my bottom dollar you all drive 80 where it is allowed.
My question slam,hoss and griz is does that mean you do not care about human life that you are heartless.
That is the exact thing many on this site is saying about hunters that participate in hunting means that some want to label as unethical, cheating, heartless and do not care about the future of the big game in Utah.
Some on hear compare using artificial baits or high tech gadgets to spotlighting or some other illegal form of hunting but until it is illegal, drope the self righteous crap.
I have asked why not the outrage towards long distance hunting as towards the other means of high tech gadgets long range snipping has and will kill more mature bucks than any other form of high tech gadgets. Some of you have said "you do not agree with long range but". But what are you not willing to speak against long range hunting because most of you know you will take the shot at 600 plus if you get the chance.
One question hoss do really think seating at home watching your trail cameras from your cell phone is worse than the trail cameras you got to go check what makes the remote view trail camera so much more deadly?
 
Talk of an incident captured on video in 2004. Anyone have a link to the actual video? The links in here are to stories, I'd like to see the video.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-11-19 AT 09:57PM (MST)[p]>slam,hoss and griz I am not
>defending the practice of baiting
>or the use of high
>tech gadgets I have clearly
>stated I do believe they
>will damage QUALITY of big
>game but my problem and
>I think some of the
>other posters is not in
>support of these practices but
>in support it is legal
>and the ones that chose
>to hunt that way have
>a right to hunt the
>way they choose as long
>as it is legal.
>The state of Utah and some
>other states has decided to
>raise the speed limit to
>80mph even though they know
>that if you get in
>a crash at them higher
>speeds it is more likely
>you will die and/or kill
>someone else. Most likely some
>of you guys do not
>agree with the higher speeds
>but I will bet my
>bottom dollar you all drive
>80 where it is allowed.
>
>My question slam,hoss and griz is
>does that mean you do
>not care about human life
>that you are heartless.
>That is the exact thing many
>on this site is saying
>about hunters that participate in
>hunting means that some want
>to label as unethical, cheating,
>heartless and do not care
>about the future of the
>big game in Utah.
>Some on hear compare using
>artificial baits or high tech
>gadgets to spotlighting or some
>other illegal form of hunting
>but until it is illegal,
>drope the self righteous crap.
>
>I have asked why not the
>outrage towards long distance hunting
>as towards the other means
>of high tech gadgets long
>range snipping has and will
>kill more mature bucks than
>any other form of high
>tech gadgets. Some of you
>have said "you do not
>agree with long range but".
>But what are you not
>willing to speak against long
>range hunting because most of
> you know you will
>take the shot at 600
>plus if you get the
>chance.
>One question hoss do really think
>seating at home watching your
>trail cameras from your cell
>phone is worse than the
>trail cameras you got to
>go check what makes the
>remote view trail camera so
>much more deadly?

If folks don't say anything, how are things going to made illegal? Are you waiting for the industry that gets 10-15% on a hunt to stop the use? Denny paid $10k for a video of spider. What's would exact location, at exact time be worth?

Have you seen FLIR? There is no difference between it and spotlighting at night. But FLIR also works in daylight.


Regular cam shows what WAS there.

Real time shows you it's there now.

And if you don't think a guide will be watching numerous cams in real time to guarantee a kill, your fooling yourself.

Fair chase tenet, the animal has to have a chance to escape. How does that work if he's under surveillance in real time 24/7.

Average joe hunting reg seasons ain't schilling out tens if thousands for tech. This is an industry driven, industry using issue.



Bess.

OJ decapitated his wife, and got away with it. So should we just not have murder or homicide laws?

We all saw the Wadrips poach a sheep and walk. So no more boundaries?

This chit is happening all over your beloved book cliffs. How's the deer hunting over there?




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Let me ask this question-

How many of the people arguing to leave it the way it is are the same ones who hate SFW, MDF and or big name Outfitters for "Pimping Our Public Wildlife" and would love to see them shut down?
 
You know what I'm Sayin Hoss!

Bess.

OJ decapitated his wife, and got away with it. So should we just not have murder or homicide laws?

I Thought He Stabbed Her but what do I know?

We all saw the Wadrips poach a sheep and walk. So no more boundaries?

Boundaries are only for a few!

This chit is happening all over your beloved book cliffs. How's the deer hunting over there?

The chit is Happening everywhere not just in the Book Cliffs!

The Deer Herd in the Books overall SUCKS!

But there's a Bigger Problem than what you're thinking!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> You know what I'm Sayin
>Hoss!
>
>Bess.
>
>OJ decapitated his wife, and got
>away with it. So should
>we just not have murder
>or homicide laws?
>
>I Thought He Stabbed Her but
>what do I know?
>
>We all saw the Wadrips poach
>a sheep and walk. So
>no more boundaries?
>
>Boundaries are only for a few!
>
>
>This chit is happening all over
>your beloved book cliffs. How's
>the deer hunting over there?
>
>
>The chit is Happening everywhere not
>just in the Book Cliffs!
>
>
>The Deer Herd in the Books
>overall SUCKS!
>
>But there's a Bigger Problem than
>what you're thinking!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D


The problem, be it this. Be it public land. Be it Utah hunting. They all boil down to $$$$


Utah is for sale.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
TRUE that Hoss!

But Ain't it F'N Bedtime?


>> You know what I'm Sayin
>>Hoss!
>>
>>Bess.
>>
>>OJ decapitated his wife, and got
>>away with it. So should
>>we just not have murder
>>or homicide laws?
>>
>>I Thought He Stabbed Her but
>>what do I know?
>>
>>We all saw the Wadrips poach
>>a sheep and walk. So
>>no more boundaries?
>>
>>Boundaries are only for a few!
>>
>>
>>This chit is happening all over
>>your beloved book cliffs. How's
>>the deer hunting over there?
>>
>>
>>The chit is Happening everywhere not
>>just in the Book Cliffs!
>>
>>
>>The Deer Herd in the Books
>>overall SUCKS!
>>
>>But there's a Bigger Problem than
>>what you're thinking!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
>
>
>The problem, be it this.
>Be it public land.
>Be it Utah hunting.
>They all boil down to
>$$$$
>
>
>Utah is for sale.
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Fair chase tenet, the animal has to have a chance to escape. How does that work if he's under surveillance in real time 24/7.

hoss stop being so melodramatic the deer or elk are not being watched 24/7.
hoss I know if I hated the goverment of the state, the game laws of the state the predominate church of the state the conservation groups of the state I would move to another state that is perfect.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19 AT 09:50AM (MST)[p]>Fair chase tenet, the animal has
>to have a chance to
>escape. How does that work
>if he's under surveillance in
>real time 24/7.
>
>hoss stop being so melodramatic the
>deer or elk are not
>being watched 24/7.
>hoss I know if I hated
>the goverment of the state,
>the game laws of the
>state the predominate church of
>the state the conservation groups
>of the state I would
>move to another state that
>is perfect.


I love this attitude.

Sure glad TR didn't have it. Sure glad those old boys who went into Yellowstone and brought elk back to my state didn't have it. Glad my grandpa and older family who were starving to death during the depression yet still passed Pittman Robertson taxing themselves didn't have it.

This it's" all about me", attitude that is infecting my state, is killing the lifestyle we inherited. We didn't have to build it. We didn't have to create it. We just have to protect it. But instead we are just selling it out.

My ancestors and yours realized that you can't let industry run wildlife.

What do we do? 500+ "conservation tags", CWMU expansion, WB controlled by a special interest group. We can't even agree that "STAR WARS" tech shouldn't be allowed.

Of course they are 24/7 surveilled. How else does a guide in Spanish Fork cover units hundreds of miles away. How does one in Elk Ridge cover multiple states? Those guys don't have magical vision. They have hundreds and hundreds of cams. They are watching, day and night.

Cams, planes, thermal, night vision, satellite.

But sure. It's "anti church" anti "conservative" to say it. To show it.

As if it's pro LDS, pro Utah government to sell out to the highest bidder? As if Doyle or Lemmons are the ideal we should all aspire to?

Me-"it's a bad idea to use Thermal"

You- "you should move, your an apostate, you are a flaming lib"

Me- "what does that have to do with Thermal?"

100+ posts in. Not one guy is defending it. Not one even on the fence. But by gawd, getting rid of it means we are Berkley. As if the anti aren't watching dudes running around like stormtroopers.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I personally do not believe guys are actually performing surveillance around the clock like a security guard in his office, no, but do they have that ability?
Hell yes they do!
I see live video feeds posted on social media every single day.
 
hos Never said you should move but I am sure getting tired of all this hate you have for everyone and everything in this state your hate is so intense you can not even hear that most posters including me agree these tech gadgets are bad for hunting and would be happy to see them not part of the hunting but just because I do not agree with the practice of hunting with tech gadgets does not mean I am about to demagogue someone that does hunt that way. Give me a chance too speak to a board that makes them decisions I will state my case against that form of hunting or give me chance to vote against high tech gadgets or baiting and I will vote against them forms of hunting but I will also stand in line to voice my opinion or vote right alongside someone that fells different than me and hopefully we can go grab a burger afterwords and swap hunting stories.
hoss my point about moving to a PERFECT state is, there is not one. You must never look at threads from other states same arguments against politics, conservation groups, the way the authorities handle hunting and animals of there state and yes even religion.
I really want to see these trail cameras that can follow deer from bed to feeding area, night and day.
 
>Maybe they are following with a
>drone or personally following the
>deer but trail cameras not.
>

These are remote trail camera's with video, Sir.
 
Remote cameras that can move through uneven terrain maybe, but let's be real follow a deer in the mountains with logs, water, mud, rock piles and any other objects that makes it tough for a human too follow a deer. Can these magical remote control cameras or run as fast as a deer.
Yes a camera can send you a remote live feed of a deer 24/7 if that deer would stand in front of the camera 24/7.
 
No this absurd Gadgetry is not even close to being an epidemic in our state, mostly because of the high costs associated with doing it right.
But the fact remains that it most certainly is here and being used by the 1%'ers who cash in big by it's existence and lack of laws governing it.
So gentlemen.....where exactly does one draw a line?

When does one put their foot down and say enough is enough?

Just because something is legal (probably only because it's yet to be discovered by state governments)
doesn't mean the one's of us who can look far enough ahead and outside a box to see it is "changing things" as Hoss clearly put it, and should be discussed seriously.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19 AT 12:02PM (MST)[p]>hos Never said you should move
>but I am sure getting
>tired of all this hate
>you have for everyone and
>everything in this state your
>hate is so intense you
>can not even hear that
>most posters including me agree
>these tech gadgets are bad
>for hunting and would be
>happy to see them not
>part of the hunting but
>just because I do not
>agree with the practice of
>hunting with tech gadgets
>does not mean I am
>about to demagogue someone that
>does hunt that way. Give
>me a chance too speak
>to a board that makes
>them decisions I will state
>my case against that form
>of hunting or give me
>chance to vote against high
>tech gadgets or baiting and
>I will vote against them
>forms of hunting but I
>will also stand in line
>to voice my opinion or
>vote right alongside someone
>that fells different than me
>and hopefully we can go
>grab a burger afterwords and
>swap hunting stories.
>hoss my point about moving to
>a PERFECT state is, there
>is not one. You must
>never look at threads from
>other states same arguments against
>politics, conservation groups, the way
>the authorities handle hunting and
>animals of there state and
>yes even religion.
>I really want to see these
>trail cameras that can follow
>deer from bed to feeding
>area, night and day.

Somehow there is a disconnect. You say yourself, you see the video, but then can't believe it's happening. I don't know what else to say. I realize you can't believe average hunters do this. The majority probably don't, either they find it distasteful, or their budget prohibits it.

Here's a $149 cam at cabelas. Check the description.
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PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Retrieve game-camera photos from your phone
Captures 10MP color photos, infrared images at night
Invisible LED flash reaches 80', detection range up to 100'
0.5-second trigger speed
Includes free app and SIM card
SPYPOINT's LINK-MICRO Cellular Game Camera is extremely compact, making it easy to hide from wild game and hunters alike. The LINK-MICRO allows you take, retrieve, and view photos 24 hours a day ? wirelessly, on your smartphone. No need to be trudging out to your hunting spot on a regular basis and spooking game. This trail camera captures 10MP color photos by day. At night, it captures quality infrared images, using an invisible LED flash that reaches 80'. A curved motion sensor lens, with 5 detection zones, can be adjusted out to 80'. The 0.5-second trigger speed makes sure you don't miss a shot. The multi-shot mode allows 2 photos per detection. Use the BUCK TRACKER feature to sort images. The date, time, temperature, and moon phase can be printed on each photo. This cellular game camera offers easy activation of data, using 4G frequency, and comes complete with home-to-field service via the included SPYPOINT App. A pre-activated SIM card is also included. The SPYPOINT LINK-MICRO Cellular Game Camera requires 8 AA batteries (not included) and a micro SD card up to 32GB (not included). 12V jack provides power option.
4.4"H x 3.1"W x 2.2"D.
Available: VZN, Nationwide.

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Additional Information
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Cancer and Reproductive Harm- www.P65Warnings.ca.gov.
Product Description
Retrieve game-camera photos from your phone
Captures 10MP color photos, infrared images at night
Invisible LED flash reaches 80', detection range up to 100'
0.5-second trigger speed
Includes free app and SIM card
SPYPOINT's LINK-MICRO Cellular Game Camera is extremely compact, making it easy to hide from wild game and hunters alike. The LINK-MICRO allows you take, retrieve, and view photos 24 hours a day ? wirelessly, on your smartphone. No need to be trudging out to your hunting spot on a regular basis and spooking game. This trail camera captures 10MP color photos by day. At night, it captures quality infrared images, using an invisible LED flash that reaches 80'. A curved motion sensor lens, with 5 detection zones, can be adjusted out to 80'. The 0.5-second trigger speed makes sure you don't miss a shot. The multi-shot mode allows 2 photos per detection. Use the BUCK TRACKER feature to sort images. The date, time, temperature, and moon phase can be printed on each photo. This cellular game camera offers easy activation of data, using 4G frequency, and comes complete with home-to-field service via the included SPYPOINT App. A pre-activated SIM card is also included. The SPYPOINT LINK-MICRO Cellular Game Camera requires 8 AA batteries (not included) and a micro SD card up to 32GB (not included). 12V jack provides power option.
4.4"H x 3.1"W x 2.2"D.
Available: VZN, Nationwide
-cabelas


Did you notice the "no need to trudge out....."?

If it wasn't being used, they wouldn't be selling them.

I'm not even for banning cams. I am during seasons.

Tech will get better, cheaper, more efficient.

There is no hate. There is disbelief that in order to have "Utah values" one has to sign onto policies, and ideas that are harmful.

Take a vote among 90,000 deer hunters, I bet real time cams, FLIR, and probably baiting isn't approved. Yet their reps, the RAC/WB obviously think different? Why? $$$

Same with land. No one in this state is for selling of public. Yet in order to not be hateful, or a lib, you most toe the line and watch it happen.

I doubt a vote among hunters would support 500 conserv tags. So why do we allow it? Because for some reason we have to remain silent, or we might be anti.

And is it the church saying so? NO

Who pushes get in line or your a flaming lib, hater, non Utah?

FOLLOW THE MONEY.
They can't use biology, conservation, public good, expansion of herds, etc to support their methods, so they create a straw man. The lib. The anti. The hater.

But notice they NEVER explain what THEY ARE.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19 AT 01:15PM (MST)[p]hoss I give up you can not read what stated and comprehend.
Keep up the good fight hoss "because you are the only one that is fighting the good fight" At least in your mind.

hoss a camera secured in one spot over water or artifical bait or a trail and is not TRACKING OR FOLLOWING a deer is not monitoring a deer 24/7, do you understand a deer normally travels some distance from bedding to water or food. If you do have your camera on a deers favorite water hole that deer during hunting season might only come into that particular water once a week.
cameras do not travel with the deer.
 
>
>When does one put their foot
>down and say enough is
>enough?
>
>Just because something is legal (probably
>only because it's yet to
>be discovered by state governments)
>
>doesn't mean the one's of us
>who can look far enough
>ahead and outside a box
>to see it is "changing
>things" as Hoss clearly put
>it, and should be discussed
>seriously.

+1000
 
I must have gotten lost somewhere.....

Where did anyone state that we have camera's actually "following" deer?

I believe the "24/7 surveillance" comment was meant as a description of a stationary instrument to watch a pile of apples (or otherwise) from the convenience of the users current location.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19
>AT 01:15?PM (MST)
>
>hoss I give up you can
>not read what stated and
>comprehend.
>Keep up the good fight hoss
>"because you are the only
>one that is fighting the
>good fight" At least in
>your mind.
>
>hoss a camera secured in one
>spot over water or artifical
>bait or a trail and
>is not TRACKING OR FOLLOWING
>a deer is not monitoring
>a deer 24/7, do you
>understand a deer normally travels
>some distance from bedding to
>water or food. If you
>do have your camera on
>a deers favorite water hole
>that deer during hunting season
>might only come into that
>particular water once a week.
>
>cameras do not travel with the
>deer.


You are right. Today. As of my knowledge, TODAY there are not mobile cams. TODAY.

Tomorrow? Im not sure.

One day I had paper maps. The next day I had a GPS. 2 years later the GPS was obsolete, onx came about.



Why are you so content REACTING? Drone bans were easy because they weren't common. They weren't cheap. It was a tiny group using them.

If real time cams are wrong. Why do we have to wait a few years to say so?

If artificial imaging like thermal is wrong, why not nip it in the bud?

As your defending yesterday's tech, nano tech is being PEEFECTED. Meaning, MOBILE, REAL TIME MONOTORING. Our guns, optics, fibers are downstream from military. The military is working on nano tech. Imaging. Precision guided projectiles.

And you want to split hairs on "24/7"? You want to wait until the crew paying 5 figures to hunt deer are introduced to an EASIER, MORE SUCCESSFUL way? Should we wait until the entire WB is a special interest group supported by the industry that uses the tech?


Stuffing the genie back into the bottle is near impossible.






From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Fair chase tenet, the animal has to have a chance to escape. How does that work if he's under surveillance in real time 24/7

That statement was stated in post# 125 by hoss.
You also stated in post# 132
Do i think people are surveillance 24/7 no but do they have the ability too yes.
I am sorry slam if I miss the interpretation of surveillance 24/7 that you meant.
 
>Fair chase tenet, the animal has
>to have a chance to
>escape. How does that work
>if he's under surveillance in
>real time 24/7
>
>That statement was stated in post#
>125 by hoss.
>You also stated in post# 132
>
>Do i think people are surveillance
>24/7 no but do they
>have the ability too yes.
>
>I am sorry slam if I
>miss the interpretation of surveillance
>24/7 that you meant.

It's all good, just wanted to clarify.
 
>Fair chase tenet, the animal has
>to have a chance to
>escape. How does that work
>if he's under surveillance in
>real time 24/7
>
>That statement was stated in post#
>125 by hoss.
>You also stated in post# 132
>
>Do i think people are surveillance
>24/7 no but do they
>have the ability too yes.
>
>I am sorry slam if I
>miss the interpretation of surveillance
>24/7 that you meant.


I talked to DWR officer about thermal this week.

"Those damn guys are always looking for loopholes" was his response. Along with a discussion about how tech outpaces regulations.

Im with you. It would be great to let guys kinda police themselves. And the fact is the vast majority do. The others will push it to the limit, go past it. Find ways around it.

We saw it with the sheep on the nebo couple years ago. An outfitter looking for a loophole. He knew the intent. He knew what was expected. He found a loophole, BECAUSE HE WAS LOOKING FOR ONE.

Now we see it with Thermal. It's not spotlighting. It's no covered specifically, so, bingo, a loophole.

Most of us don't look for loopholes. Some do. And they are paid handsomely for it.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
"Much of the feeble minded hypocrisy here if nothing else, is very amusing."


Its amusing right up until you realize they get to vote and make babies too. :D
 
C?mon folks. We need some more class warfare talks about 1%ers from guys making a part time gig out of guiding the same.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Any serious hunter or guide spends a ton of time scouting before the season. There has to be a way to safely and effectively attach a gps tracking device to a selected animal from a reasonable distance. Maybe something that shoots just under the skin. like some sort of chip. You'd never have to worry about where that big buck disappeared to, come opening day. You just have to be the first one to see him. You could be within range at legal shooting time.
 
I'm sure that each item on the OP's list could use its own thread, but since he didn't set it up that way and he put baiting on the top of the list AND since that's the only item I'm familiar with, I'm going to address this post to the previous posts directed at baiting.

I've been doing it for quite a few years and it's been my experience that most of the claims made on this thread are simply not the case or are exaggerated in order to make a point against it.

One point to be made is that apples (or any other baits) are NOT irresistible. Some deer like them and some don't. In fact, some adult deer are spooked by them and refuse to get near them. I've seen quite a few come in from one direction, smell or see the apples and make a wide circle around them in order to come into the water from the opposite direction. Fawns do tend to try eating it because EVERYTHING they eat while being weaned is a new smell or taste and it's something to be tested out. But they are still nursing somewhat and would still prefer mother's milk to anything else. Also, like most products of any kind, most of the commercial baits don't live up to the advertising hype. I tried several before I found one that worked like I needed.

Point two, baiting is NOT like winter feeding. The DWR only feeds deer and elk in the wintertime when there is little or no other accessible healthy forage. Drought killed and/or old growth sagebrush and bitterbrush and other forage covered in deep crusty snow are a problem during harsh winters, but not during standard hunting seasons which happen during the fall when there's still sufficient available natural forage.

And while it may be true that some who bait bring in lots of apples or bait, I personally don't know anyone who does including myself and would support regulations limiting the amount by poundage (5 to 10 lbs). I agree that baiting shouldn't be feeding. You've probably used KitKat bars to get your children to do their homework, which I think is acceptable, but I don't think it's wise to feed them KitKat bars for dinner every night and mess up their digestive system. The same goes for baiting deer.

Point three, not all baiting is done to draw to and/or keep big game in an unnatural place. ALL of my baits are in places where the deer are ALREADY going, ie; waterholes, guzzlers, heavily used trails and feeding areas. In fact, I think it's foolish for hunters to try to draw them away from their natural areas because it makes them uneasy about every movement, noise and smell and puts them more on the alert.

So, why do I bait? Because, first of all, since I spread out the apples and place my salt blocks behind a tree trunk, it allows me a better chance to make a clear, close, broadside, level, standing shot at a single unalert animal. Second, it allows me to pick the animal I want out of the crowd. Third, it gets the animal doing all the hiking since I can no longer do it. Fourth, it allows me to hunt in any kind of weather from a comfortable blind. Fifth, it allows me to make a short trip knowing I'll see deer. Sixth, it allows me to tell the family EXACTLY where I'm going. Seventh, it allows me to better enjoy sunsets, other animals, companions if I choose, even a book if I want.

In post 17, Grizzly says, "I'd rather get a 2-point on a stalk, than a 4-point over an apple pile.", which I think is a great choice for him. And if baiting is banned outright, he'll still have the choice he wanted, but because of my health and family circumstances I will have neither choice.

Regulating baiting with limits on the amount, type, timing and placement is one thing, but an outright ban is unnecessary, divisive, ineffective for the reasons given, limiting to sound biological big game management and it could prove to be counterproductive to the growth of the herds.

Ban it if you think you must, but remember that if God willing, you live long enough to be where I am, that decision will be troublesome.
 
I'd like to get a burger with EFA one day. While we may not agree on everything, I think I'd learn a lot from him.
 
>I'd like to get a burger
>with EFA one day. While
>we may not agree on
>everything, I think I'd learn
>a lot from him.


Hey Niller!

You'd Best take Him a Truck Load of Bait/Apples!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-22-19 AT 10:17AM (MST)[p]>I'd like to get a burger
>with EFA one day. While
>we may not agree on
>everything, I think I'd learn
>a lot from him.

Thanks! And I can say the same about you 'cause NOBODY knows everything there is to know about hunting.

I'd love the burger, but hold the Truck Load of bait/apples per Bess' post. If the ban happens, I don't want to get caught by a DWR CO during hunting season with any contraband apples, even in my lunchbox let alone a whole Truck Load. Besides, I don't really need the apples even if baiting remains legal since I just use about 70 to 80 a year and I get those green and/or wormy, overripe, bird-pecked, ant and earwig infested apples off the ground below my unsprayed apple tree in the back yard. I won't eat them but the deer, elk, pronghorn, rodents, birds and foxes don't seem to mind.

And a Truck Load of salt bricks would last our family two or three generations since I only replace them whenever I get a tag for the unit the bait site is on. (I replaced 2 this year.)

I will admit that I finally found a commercial bait block (Sweetlix Deer Block) that works like I needed (holds them long enough to get a good shot), but so far, I've only needed it at one setup. Plus, the whole block is too heavy to carry very far so I had CalRanch break it up into quarters so it will last me for 4 seasons.

So, thanks Bess, but no Truck Loads are needed in spite of your thoughtfull suggestion. :)
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-19
>>AT 01:45?PM (MST)
>>
>>There was a time guys used
>>to look at Texas and
>>laugh at them.
>>
>>It seems as though things have
>>changed. Utah has become
>>the laughing stock of the
>>West. Baiting, 500 auction
>>tags. Thermal imaging.
>>Special interests controlling WB.
>>
>>
>>The reality is simple. 100% success
>>rates mean hunting is over.
>>
>>
>>Unregulated business will simply continue to
>>push the boundaries.
>>
>>Whats a few thousand dollars for
>>thermal if you get $175k
>>to guide an elk.
>>
>>What's a few hundred in apples
>>if you fetch $25k to
>>shoot deer.
>>
>>What's a little bad PR for
>>poaching sheep if your client
>>drops 6 figures year after
>>year with you.
>>
>>Thermal freaking imaging. Why not
>>just GPS tag fawns and
>>sell locations to highest bidders.
>> We have the expo,
>>we have folks who will
>>spend the money. We
>>have the buisnesses(outfitters) who will
>>cash the checks. We
>>have the WB loaded with
>>a special interest group who
>>represents the money men.
>>
>>Let's just get on with it.
>>
>>
>>THERMAL IMAGING. Good gawd!!
>>
>We don't always agree, but this
>is spot on.

Very well said.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-19 AT 08:22AM (MST)[p]So, what about hauling water to a rubber feeding tub or to a guzzler or cattle trough that is currently empty? Is that baiting? Or apple juice or pine nut oil or anise oil dumped on the ground?
 
Hey efa!

If that Trough/Tub is Empty there's probably a Reason for it!

Our Local Cowboys keep the Troughs full while they've got their Cattle on the Mountain!

We noticed just in the last few days some troughs were Empty & some still flowing water!

And Part of the Cowboy's Work is Shutting Systems Down & Draining them for the Winter!

You Fill them Up after they've been Drained!

You're CHUMMING!:D

I've seen times & Places in the Book Cliffs where Water was the Best CHUM on certain years!

I Still wanna see the Enforcement when Laws & Rules are Changed!

Remember The Shed Season/Laws/Rule Changes the last couple of years?

Who Lost?

Yup!

The Honest Guys!

The Law officials never even Scratched the Illegal Activity!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 

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