Last year my dad and I had the central deer tag and we hunted in diamond fork near strawberry ridge. We saw quite a few road doggers and atver's but the number of hunters was manageable. Once we got off the roads and back into the bush several miles in we only saw one other group of two. We covered lots of ground and didn't see anybody else. Anyway, we drew the Wasatch West tag this year and hunted the exact same area. My dad and I went to the exact same spots several miles from any road and saw many hunters this year. Guys on horseback, guys packing in, guys everywhere. It seemed all the awesome places that I had scouted and hunted last year had a group of hunters in it. And this was the second weekend! I cant even imagine how bad the opener would have been. Honestly my dad and I would just be getting to our "spot" when we'ed round the corner and see a group of hunters on the adjacent hill side or up on the ridge or right in the damn spot that we were trying to get to. I am not frustrated at the other groups of hunters... They had as much right to be there as I did. I am however, very frustrated at the DWR for issuing 7500 permits for that relatively small unit. Sure the area is big geographically but about half the unit is unhuntable (being in Salt Lake county)for rifle hunters. The only other unit that issued more permits was the central mountain manti/san rafael unit and this unit is freakin huge. Probably the biggest in the state. Anyway, my gripe is that the Wasatch west unit can not accommodate near that many hunters IMHO. To make things worse it seemed a large majority of 7500 tag holders hunted near diamond fork. Anybody else experience this in Wasatch West?
Too many tags, Wasatch West Deer
- Thread starter jr8fish
- Start date
Changing units is definitely a fix.... just have to learn an entire new area to do it. I often hunt Wyo, Utah, and building pnts in colorado. This was the first year that I drew a tag in two states. I drew a deer tag in wyo and utah. I am okay with the DWR issuing less tags. I dont need to hunt deer twice a year in two different states. Optimally I would like to focus all my might on one deer tag per year. This year I felt like I stretched myself too thin hunting two different units a week and a half apart. I wish the DWR would cut tags and heck they can even increase price to give us a shot at bigger and more animals. Putting in in multiple states will likely ensure that I will draw one general tag even with cuts, so that keeps me hunting deer every fall. Even if I dont draw every year that is fine. Someone in my group will and I will still get out and hunt with them. That doesnt matter to me. What does matter is cutting tags = more and bigger deer even if you do have to wait an extra year. That is my two cents.
travishunter3006
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I feel as if some areas will have the same result as you described but there will be some other units that people will report being the exact opposite.
I hope you can find success next year!
I hope you can find success next year!
Zeke
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On the other side of the coin are the people who don't care about shooting a big buck. They just want to get out and hunt and maybe shoot "A" buck.
Some folks think it should be trophy only but MOST would rather hunt more often and trophy be damned.
With all the negativity about the LE drawings, points etc I suspect the last thing we all want is 30 more full blown LE units which excludes 50,000 more hunters.
It's a fine line that the UDWR must walk to keep us all happy. Someone will always be unhappy regardless of the direction.
Good luck next year. Learning a new unit is a ton of fun. It's usually pretty easy to learn one on-the-fly.
Zeke
Some folks think it should be trophy only but MOST would rather hunt more often and trophy be damned.
With all the negativity about the LE drawings, points etc I suspect the last thing we all want is 30 more full blown LE units which excludes 50,000 more hunters.
It's a fine line that the UDWR must walk to keep us all happy. Someone will always be unhappy regardless of the direction.
Good luck next year. Learning a new unit is a ton of fun. It's usually pretty easy to learn one on-the-fly.
Zeke
south slope yellowstone seemed the same way it was worse than open season .could not tell they even cut tags .seen lots of deer no bucks,. ps i dont road hunt i was 5-10 miles in on horses every day .the flood peolpe thought i was in salt lake city. there is no end in sight.why
tyef350
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Its the whole state for the most part. Change units haha ya pick the CACHE unit haha NOT!!!! I had to take up my own rock to sit on cause they was all being used. Im about to change state's Utah is a JOKE !!!! and not looking any better. DWR just want's our money. Cache unit was a 3 day hunt two years ago. This year they turn left over bow/muzz tags into rifle. UTAH DWR = A BIG JOKE!!!!!!
35huntdeer
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I hunted the same area in the Wasatch west that I've hunted my whole life. I thought it was a good idea to make smaller units, cut tags, and hopefully alleviate some of the pressure..... But it was even more crowded this year! We don't have the winter habitat that we use to in a lot of these units, so there are less deer. We don't need 30 LE units, but there are still too many tags for some of these units! I wouldn't mind if I only got to cary a gun every 2 or 3 years, or even if I had to pay more for a tag. At this rate there wont be any deer for our kids to enjoy!
RoadlessHunter
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Remember they gave out 800 cow tags for that area and the hunt ran from oct. 4 to oct 28. That would puit more hunters in the unit that were hunting elk only.
Robiland
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I did not have a rifle tag this year. I usually archery hunt. But this year I went out on the opener with a friend down south on 1000 lakes. There were a TON OF PEOPLE. How they went from 40 tags to 450 tags on a struggling unit is beyond me. But we went out and got a good 165 4x4 opening morning. Infact, we did not hear another shot all morning. We saw only 1 hunter where we were. But on the other side of the unit it was camper to camper.
I also took my nephew out second weekend for his 1st deer hunt. We were road hunters. hoping for anything. We had a chance and missed a 2pt at 50 yards. It was fun to see him get all excited and shaking like a leaf in tornado. Then later down the road I spotted 2 giant wall hangers feeding about 1 mile away on a hill. Nephew and his dad wanted to road hunt. Oh well. This was on the wasatch west unit. We saw lots of deer, 4 bucks and 3 were big.
I guess what I am saying is that I did not have a tag but brought my boys with me to help other people and we had just as much fun as if we had our own tags. With 4 young boys, I hope that when they are of age, that we can at least get 1 tag and go out and have fun. This rifle deer hunt will be 1 I will remmeber for along time and I did not even have a tag or carry a rifle.
I also took my nephew out second weekend for his 1st deer hunt. We were road hunters. hoping for anything. We had a chance and missed a 2pt at 50 yards. It was fun to see him get all excited and shaking like a leaf in tornado. Then later down the road I spotted 2 giant wall hangers feeding about 1 mile away on a hill. Nephew and his dad wanted to road hunt. Oh well. This was on the wasatch west unit. We saw lots of deer, 4 bucks and 3 were big.
I guess what I am saying is that I did not have a tag but brought my boys with me to help other people and we had just as much fun as if we had our own tags. With 4 young boys, I hope that when they are of age, that we can at least get 1 tag and go out and have fun. This rifle deer hunt will be 1 I will remmeber for along time and I did not even have a tag or carry a rifle.
+1 35huntdeer
I was not saying in previous posts that I want all the 30 units to be limited entry. Heck I still have never drawn a limited entry tag myself (but my time will come). What I am saying is that at the rate they are issuing tags in some units like Wasatch West there will not be any deer left in the future. Everyone on this site would agree that the Utah deer population is nothing where it used to be. What is the reason for that.... OVER-HUNTED! It will mean nothing that they made smaller units if they dont cut tags. Smaller units does not equal less hunting. Fewer tags = less hunting = more and bigger deer. If we want to preserve this precious resource than we must conserve it, and that may mean that we as individuals only carry a rifle every other year. We can still go hunting but not kill every year. And I totally agree with a few of these other posts that hunting with friends even if you dont have a tag is still just as much fun.
35huntdeer, I thought the same thing that you did. I was expecting to see less hunters afield this trip but to my surprise I saw way way more. But really what can you expect when the DWR issues 7500 tags for the unit, with a good portion of the unit closed to rifle hunters.
I really enjoy hunting my "spots" in Wasatch West but at this rate I am going to have to switch units or something. Hunting no longer is fun when you find yourself trying to out smart other hunters instead of trying to out smart the bucks. Thanks for everyone's posts.
I was not saying in previous posts that I want all the 30 units to be limited entry. Heck I still have never drawn a limited entry tag myself (but my time will come). What I am saying is that at the rate they are issuing tags in some units like Wasatch West there will not be any deer left in the future. Everyone on this site would agree that the Utah deer population is nothing where it used to be. What is the reason for that.... OVER-HUNTED! It will mean nothing that they made smaller units if they dont cut tags. Smaller units does not equal less hunting. Fewer tags = less hunting = more and bigger deer. If we want to preserve this precious resource than we must conserve it, and that may mean that we as individuals only carry a rifle every other year. We can still go hunting but not kill every year. And I totally agree with a few of these other posts that hunting with friends even if you dont have a tag is still just as much fun.
35huntdeer, I thought the same thing that you did. I was expecting to see less hunters afield this trip but to my surprise I saw way way more. But really what can you expect when the DWR issues 7500 tags for the unit, with a good portion of the unit closed to rifle hunters.
I really enjoy hunting my "spots" in Wasatch West but at this rate I am going to have to switch units or something. Hunting no longer is fun when you find yourself trying to out smart other hunters instead of trying to out smart the bucks. Thanks for everyone's posts.
Robiland
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JR8fish,
I bet you realize that it is not the bucks that have the fawns. Its not that it is over hunted, it is that there are too many predators, cars, lack of winter range, longe range hunters or people shooting out past 500 yards upto 1000 yards or more, poachers, roads, bad winters. It all adds up, but I am a firm believer if we could eliminate at least 50% of all predators, our deer would grow alot.
When was the last time you went rabbit hunting and saw tons of rabbits? It has not happened for quite a while, and I understand the cycle, but you used to go out and see hundereds of rabbits, now not as many because we kill them all so now the predators hunt other food, our deer. I know it sounds crazy, but I almost think that there should be a season on rabbits, even Jack Rabbits. Now that is just an idea and thinking out loud. But give the predators more food, they might leave the deer alone. Who knows?!?!
I dont think that it is over hunted. Yes, maybe cut tags a bit here or there. BUT THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE FOR THE REASON THERE ARE NO DEER.
I bet you realize that it is not the bucks that have the fawns. Its not that it is over hunted, it is that there are too many predators, cars, lack of winter range, longe range hunters or people shooting out past 500 yards upto 1000 yards or more, poachers, roads, bad winters. It all adds up, but I am a firm believer if we could eliminate at least 50% of all predators, our deer would grow alot.
When was the last time you went rabbit hunting and saw tons of rabbits? It has not happened for quite a while, and I understand the cycle, but you used to go out and see hundereds of rabbits, now not as many because we kill them all so now the predators hunt other food, our deer. I know it sounds crazy, but I almost think that there should be a season on rabbits, even Jack Rabbits. Now that is just an idea and thinking out loud. But give the predators more food, they might leave the deer alone. Who knows?!?!
I dont think that it is over hunted. Yes, maybe cut tags a bit here or there. BUT THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE FOR THE REASON THERE ARE NO DEER.
I understand what you are saying but have to disagree somewhat. I realize there are other predators out there but you have to remember that we are a predator to the deer just as much as any coyote. I believe many of the general season areas are over hunted like wasatch west. I am not saying that this is the only reason why the deer numbers have decreased. The general units issue many more tags than limited entry units. Limited entry units are often managed to achieve a higher buck to doe ratio. Some are managed as trophy units, regardless of how an lE unit is managed what all the LE's have in common is fewer hunters than general units. I believe that one of the big reasons why there are more bucks and bigger bucks in LE units is simply because we,the top predator in the animal kingdom, are limited by how many bucks we can kill in those units. LE units dont have the hordes of hunters that general units do. I have a good example. Several years ago my dad drew the Heaston East CWMU. That is the CWMU out near Kennecott. The deer in this unit are as close to urban as you can get that are still huntable. We saw tons of deer while hunting here. We also saw many world class bucks. There were deer everywhere. What is the difference between this unit and other general units near the wasatch front. Other predators (excluding us) such as coyotes and cougars dont give a rats ars that it is a CWMU. These predators are just as likely to be here as in wasatch west. Lets talk about other predators such as loss of winter range. The deer in Heaston East have had a continual demise of there winter range as the population (roads, buildings, houses, mining equipment) continually creep up the benches of the Oquirrh mountains. These deer have had a huge open pit mine, power plants, settling ponds, and all sorts of industrial buildings built right into their winter range habitat. These deer are still going strong despite this. Their winter range has been wiped out just as much if not more than the winter range in wasatch west. These deer also experience similar winters. The one big difference is that Heaston East is a CWMU that limits the number of the top predators in the animal kingdom that can hunt there.
Also, I bet you realize that it takes a buck and a doe to make a fawn. If we are killing all the nice bucks (the ones with the best genes and survival instincts)what is going to be left to mate with the does?????..... A bunch of two points or deer with bad genes. Coyotes and cougars dont care about the size of a deer's head gear. In fact, they target the weak and sick. This is natural selection. We as humans target the deer that we should really be leaving in the gene pool to allow the herds to grow strong with a good mix of genes. This is the point that i am getting at... I think that some of the general units are over hunted because there are too many tags and too many tags means too many bucks with good genes get harvested.
I will continue to believe that one of the biggest reasons that the deer population has declined so much is because of over hunting because too many tags are being issued. That being said, I am very grateful for the bounty on coyotes that was passed earlier this year (I hope that we will see dividends from this soon).
Also, I bet you realize that it takes a buck and a doe to make a fawn. If we are killing all the nice bucks (the ones with the best genes and survival instincts)what is going to be left to mate with the does?????..... A bunch of two points or deer with bad genes. Coyotes and cougars dont care about the size of a deer's head gear. In fact, they target the weak and sick. This is natural selection. We as humans target the deer that we should really be leaving in the gene pool to allow the herds to grow strong with a good mix of genes. This is the point that i am getting at... I think that some of the general units are over hunted because there are too many tags and too many tags means too many bucks with good genes get harvested.
I will continue to believe that one of the biggest reasons that the deer population has declined so much is because of over hunting because too many tags are being issued. That being said, I am very grateful for the bounty on coyotes that was passed earlier this year (I hope that we will see dividends from this soon).
Zeke
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jr8fish, This post is NOT attacking you and should not be looked at as such.
Most of you guys think the 1990's are the good old days because you were just starting to dream of deer hunting at that time. I have a few more years deer hunting than that and I can tell you that a buck is probably easier to come by and there are fewer hunters today than there ever was in the real good old days.
I have to believe you about the over crowding in your area, I was not there and have no reason to disbelieve you. I'm sure some units are still issued too many tags and some areas within the unit were slammed with hunters. I guess it could happen any where but going forward it will be less likely since hunters are required to stay in a smaller unit.....and tag numbers are down.
I think the smaller units will prove to be a good first step and the F&G will need to look at the population numbers and the buck to doe ratios and make some adjustments.
The intent wasn't to be flip with you when I said to change units, it was just good advice. I've hunted deer in Ut for well over 40 years and when I have a negative experience I simply learn a new area. It's worked out great for me and I think I could be comfortable in about half of the new units +/-.
The same negative thing will happen to you if you do the same thing next year. That's why my comment was meant as good advice. Change units.... you have lots of units from which to choose. Diamond Fork would be about the last place in the State that I'd hunt deer but you must know something I don't.
I'd tell you where we hunt but you've dogged on the quad riders so much (arrogance I guess) that I don't dare have you in the unit. I'm scared.
BTW: The Cache is a unit that I don't know but common sense tell me the F$G really messed up by converting left over tags. Sportsmen should be very angry over that fiasco.
I wish I had all the answers,
Zeke
Most of you guys think the 1990's are the good old days because you were just starting to dream of deer hunting at that time. I have a few more years deer hunting than that and I can tell you that a buck is probably easier to come by and there are fewer hunters today than there ever was in the real good old days.
I have to believe you about the over crowding in your area, I was not there and have no reason to disbelieve you. I'm sure some units are still issued too many tags and some areas within the unit were slammed with hunters. I guess it could happen any where but going forward it will be less likely since hunters are required to stay in a smaller unit.....and tag numbers are down.
I think the smaller units will prove to be a good first step and the F&G will need to look at the population numbers and the buck to doe ratios and make some adjustments.
The intent wasn't to be flip with you when I said to change units, it was just good advice. I've hunted deer in Ut for well over 40 years and when I have a negative experience I simply learn a new area. It's worked out great for me and I think I could be comfortable in about half of the new units +/-.
The same negative thing will happen to you if you do the same thing next year. That's why my comment was meant as good advice. Change units.... you have lots of units from which to choose. Diamond Fork would be about the last place in the State that I'd hunt deer but you must know something I don't.
I'd tell you where we hunt but you've dogged on the quad riders so much (arrogance I guess) that I don't dare have you in the unit. I'm scared.
BTW: The Cache is a unit that I don't know but common sense tell me the F$G really messed up by converting left over tags. Sportsmen should be very angry over that fiasco.
I wish I had all the answers,
Zeke
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-12 AT 03:35PM (MST)[p]Apologies, this post or any other was NOT intended to dog on quad riders nor hunters in trucks. I was merely trying to say that it was not because we were near the roads that we saw so many hunters. I dont hunt from a truck and dont own an atv. In a previous post I was not joking when I said that maybe sticking to the roads is a better way of hunting... My way of hunting did not produce anything notable this year. Hunting from a truck/atv allows you to cover WAY more country and if you stay on high ridge roads you can take your spotter in the truck and glass for miles. This is a form of hunting that I have not participated in, and maybe that is where I am lacking... I am the first to admit that I can not cover near the country on foot bushwhacking in a day that an atv'er can cover in a couple hours. I might try that form of hunting if I actually owned an atv. For now I don't and I will stick with the backpack.. I enjoy that style. and again I apologize if I offended anyone with previous comments about road dogging and atvs (maybe its jealousy that I dont got one 
As for hunting in diamond fork... its mostly tradition and previous knowledge of the area. My father and I have pretty demanding jobs so the convenience of it being so close to SLC and the fact that we know the unit keeps us going back (we dont exactly have oodles of time to scout in order to pick a new unit and then figure out the deer patterns, but we may have to do this).. Once we get off the roads we have seen some huge bucks when we have hunted it and scouted it in the past. This is the first year that I have anything to complain about. We would never see that many hunters in years past. I am concerned that this is the new trend and I am going to have to steer away from my favorite hunting spot.
I was in no way offended by you saying I should switch units... If the hunting pressure that I saw in this unit this year is the new trend then I NEED to change units.
As for hunting in diamond fork... its mostly tradition and previous knowledge of the area. My father and I have pretty demanding jobs so the convenience of it being so close to SLC and the fact that we know the unit keeps us going back (we dont exactly have oodles of time to scout in order to pick a new unit and then figure out the deer patterns, but we may have to do this).. Once we get off the roads we have seen some huge bucks when we have hunted it and scouted it in the past. This is the first year that I have anything to complain about. We would never see that many hunters in years past. I am concerned that this is the new trend and I am going to have to steer away from my favorite hunting spot.
I was in no way offended by you saying I should switch units... If the hunting pressure that I saw in this unit this year is the new trend then I NEED to change units.
Robiland
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Jr8fish,
I cant buy your example. That is PRIVATE ground. I cant go hunt, hike, atv, camp or do anything else over there. Plus, you have an area with X amount of deer, and it is private, and you only issue 10 or less tags, CLEARLY your deer herd will do just fine.
Also, there are more than just cyotes, bears, lions, bob cats that are killing the deer. It the roads. Down south on the Pauns, there are more deer killed down there on the highway than you can even imagine. If I could find the study or the quote I will post it up here. But I read that there are more deer killed each year by cars than there is by humans hunting. We kill between 30 to 40,000 deer a year hunting. Imagine if there were another 35,000 deer out there each year that did not get killed by cars. Or even another 100,000 estimated killed by predators each year. Crazy to think.
I am not trying to argue, just stating my point, as you have. What ever the issue really is, I HOPE WE CAN SOLVE IT SOON!!!
I cant buy your example. That is PRIVATE ground. I cant go hunt, hike, atv, camp or do anything else over there. Plus, you have an area with X amount of deer, and it is private, and you only issue 10 or less tags, CLEARLY your deer herd will do just fine.
Also, there are more than just cyotes, bears, lions, bob cats that are killing the deer. It the roads. Down south on the Pauns, there are more deer killed down there on the highway than you can even imagine. If I could find the study or the quote I will post it up here. But I read that there are more deer killed each year by cars than there is by humans hunting. We kill between 30 to 40,000 deer a year hunting. Imagine if there were another 35,000 deer out there each year that did not get killed by cars. Or even another 100,000 estimated killed by predators each year. Crazy to think.
I am not trying to argue, just stating my point, as you have. What ever the issue really is, I HOPE WE CAN SOLVE IT SOON!!!
wow... those are staggering numbers. must be why there seems to be major work going on around the state to erect game fences and highway crossing areas. Thanks for sharing. You are right we are both just stating our point. And just as you, my hope is that we can solve the problem soon... The move to 30 units is a good start.
jr8fish,
I have to agree with you. I hunted with my boys on the north side of the same unit you were hunting. I have been hunting this area since 1992. I was up there on both the muzzle and the rifle (4 miles in). There were more people during both those hunts than I have ever seen in 20 years. It is interesting it coincides with the first year they wplit the State in 30 units. I wondered about the 7,500 deer tags issued for this unit and hoped it wouldn't effect our hunting area. It was definately a lot tougher with all the people and a lot more bucks were taken up there than have been in the past.
Anyway, tht was my observation and I share some of your same frustration. Everyone, I talked to up there felt the same way.
I have to agree with you. I hunted with my boys on the north side of the same unit you were hunting. I have been hunting this area since 1992. I was up there on both the muzzle and the rifle (4 miles in). There were more people during both those hunts than I have ever seen in 20 years. It is interesting it coincides with the first year they wplit the State in 30 units. I wondered about the 7,500 deer tags issued for this unit and hoped it wouldn't effect our hunting area. It was definately a lot tougher with all the people and a lot more bucks were taken up there than have been in the past.
Anyway, tht was my observation and I share some of your same frustration. Everyone, I talked to up there felt the same way.
travishunter3006
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Robiland,
Based on the past years numbers we are killing only approximately 20,000 deer.
I read a study saying that nearly 20,000 deer were found dead on the side of the road (or atleast that were reported). This study also stated that for every deer found on the road dead, 7 others hobbled off and died out of sight (or were not reported).
This stdy also reported approximately 3,000 adult cougars in Utah that kill one deer per week which totals approximately 150,00 deer.
Take those numbers and you can figure that 160,000 deer are killed on the roads. 20,000 killed by hunters, and 150,000 by cougars. This study was done either by or for the DWR here in Utah. Well by THEIR numbers and my slight ability to multiply and divide these numbers equal 330,000 deer killed per year. By their numbers alone were are killing more deer per year than Utah is suggested to have.
Based on the past years numbers we are killing only approximately 20,000 deer.
I read a study saying that nearly 20,000 deer were found dead on the side of the road (or atleast that were reported). This study also stated that for every deer found on the road dead, 7 others hobbled off and died out of sight (or were not reported).
This stdy also reported approximately 3,000 adult cougars in Utah that kill one deer per week which totals approximately 150,00 deer.
Take those numbers and you can figure that 160,000 deer are killed on the roads. 20,000 killed by hunters, and 150,000 by cougars. This study was done either by or for the DWR here in Utah. Well by THEIR numbers and my slight ability to multiply and divide these numbers equal 330,000 deer killed per year. By their numbers alone were are killing more deer per year than Utah is suggested to have.
stillhunterman
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travishunter, would you have a link to the studies you are referring to? I remember reading about the 20k deer killed by vehicles but not the additional 7 that died later. Interesting, thanks!
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
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