unbelievable story....

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
14,321
..there is no such thing as an accidental discharge...only negligent discharges...

http://www.news-press.com/story/new...ident-punta-gorda-police-department/88500140/

A somber Punta Gorda police Chief Tom Lewis said the police department was unaware that any ammunition existed for a weapon used in a special scenario Tuesday night that resulted in the death of a Punta Gorda woman.

At the 2 p.m. press conference Wednesday the chief briefly described the shoot/don't shoot scenario that led to the death of Mary Knowlton, 73. Lewis described Knowlton, whom he said he knew personally, was as a "phenomenal" person in the community.

Asked about the weapon used in a role-playing portion during a special Chamber Police Night similar to the department's citizen police academy, the chief said he could not say much due to the FDLE investigation.

However, the chief did explain that not every officer in the department has access to that particular weapon and that it has been used before at similar events.

Lewis said that the department was unaware that live ammunition existed for the revolver he also said he was not sure how the fact that the gun was loaded was missed. He said that it was the department's belief that only blanks were available to the officer using the weapon.

Lewis would also not confirm the identity of the officer involved and said that ID would be would be made later on Wednesday. \

Lewis added that the officer in question has been placed on administrative leave and has other officers with him along with friends and family to ensure his safety.

Th chief said that there were several members of the Punta Gorda Police Department, including himself, who were in attendance at the event.


THE NEWS-PRESS
Her death was national news, but who was Mary Knowlton in life?

Earlier on Wednesday Punta Gorda city officials expressed sorrow and sympathy for the family of a woman who suffered a fatal gunshot wound during the city police department's Citizens Police Academy Tuesday night.

Howard Kunik, the Punta Gorda city manager, read the prepared statement as the mayor, and city council members stood by in support.

Knowlton was shot during a role-play scenario in which the Punta Gorda police officer was playing a ?bad guy? and fired several times at the woman who was supposed to be playing the victim, according to Sue Paquin, a photographer who was covering the event for the Charlotte Sun and witnessed the incident.

Knowlton was transported to Lee Memorial Hospital in Fort Myers where she was pronounced dead.

Kunik, speaking in front of the Public Safety Building at 1410 Tamiami Trail, said the city wished to express sympathy for the family and friends of Knowlton.

"We are shocked by this horrific accident and are grieving deeply over Mary's passing," he said.

Kunik acknowledged that the accidental shooting also impacted others attending the event.


"One of our first priorities was to involve our police department's chaplain to provide assistance and comfort," he said.

Additionally, Lt. Katie Heck, public information officer for the Punta Gorda police, said that the city has contracted with Tidewell Hospice to provide free grief counselling for anyone in the city.

Heck said those wishing to take advantage of the service could call Michelle Gordon at Tidewell at 941-9794300.

The Punta Gorda Police Department hosted approximately 35 civilians from the community for its two-hour Citizen Police Academy, during which time two participants were randomly selected to be put through a ?shoot/don't shoot? scenario in which they make decisions on using simulated lethal force in a live role play, according to a press release from the department.


?I am devastated for everyone involved in this unimaginable event," said Chief Lewis. "If you pray, please pray for Mary?s family, and for the officers who were involved. Everyone involved in this accident is in a state of overwhelming shock and grief.?

Lewis contacted the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to respond and begin an investigation into the events surrounding this incident. The involved officer has been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of this investigation. Florida Department of Law Enforcement personnel are now on scene and have taken command of the investigation.

"We have complete faith in our chief of police to ensure that this outside investigation is conducted thoroughly," Kunik said.

Knowlton's Facebook page says she is from Austin, Minnesota, and now lived in Punta Gorda. Her page said she worked as a librarian in Scott County, Minnesota.

Carolyn Hartwigsen, of Edina, Minnesota, told The Associated Press she was a longtime friend of Knowlton. She said Knowlton had a love of books and tried to instill that in young readers.

?So much is on the internet now. But, books are so important to have in children?s hands. That was important to her,? Hartwigsen said.

Hartwigsen said Mary and her husband of more than 50 years would come back to Minnesota periodically to visit. ?She was the salt of the earth, a beautiful soul and the kindest women you would know."

The couple had two sons, Hartwigsen said.

Heck said the department has run the shoot/don't shoot scenarios as part of it's program here for approximately two years.

"We have done them for the last two Leadership Charlotte police nights, Punta Gorda Citizen?s Academy, and then this was the first police night hosted by our Chamber of Commerce," she said. "In each session four individuals went through the scenarios with no injuries or incident."

Heck said that she believes there are other agencies who have conducted this type of scenario demonstration for civilians.

More information will be released as the investigation continues.
 
Sad Deal for sure!

Not that it matters!

But what kind of Gun doesn't Have Ammo?

Prayers for the Family & Others involved!











[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
I guess I don't quite understand. As part of community "awareness training" they play cops and robbers with real guns and 73 year old women?

good idea
 
Gross stupidity and negligence on the part of the officer. He should be fired immediately and anyone above him who approved this charade should also be terminated.

No real firearm EVER is pointed at anything we don't intend to kill. No matter if you think "blanks" are in it. No matter if you think it is unloaded. No matter if the safety is on. These idiots forgot or never knew what firearms safety is or were never properly taught. They should have never been trusted with anything more than cleaning tables at restaurant.
 
And to add to the issue:
Blanks can kill too. Within the past year or so, someone was shot at close range with blanks during a play performance and it killed them!

Some people just don't respect the explosion that takes place even from a blank!

This is another reason I have disdain for video games and paintballing! People should never be the target!

That's a damn sad story in Florida and heads should roll!

Zeke
 
>Gross stupidity and negligence on the
>part of the officer.
>He should be fired immediately
>and anyone above him who
>approved this charade should also
>be terminated.
>
>No real firearm EVER is pointed
>at anything we don't intend
>to kill. No matter
>if you think "blanks" are
>in it. No matter
>if you think it is
>unloaded. No matter if
>the safety is on.
>These idiots forgot or never
>knew what firearms safety is
>or were never properly taught.
> They should have never
>been trusted with anything more
>than cleaning tables at restaurant.
>

Well hot dam there tribaby! Accidents happen. I'm sure in your life you've never made any mistakes but us low life peasants often do. The PD stepped up to the plate and was very open and honest about it. I can see why you are against them being open and honest given your recent MM posts etc.
 
>
>Well hot dam there tribaby! Accidents
>happen. I'm sure in your
>life you've never made any
>mistakes but us low life
>peasants often do. The PD
>stepped up to the plate
>and was very open and
>honest about it. I can
>see why you are against
>them being open and honest
>given your recent MM posts
>etc.

So you're okay with what happened because the PD admitted fault and "accidents happen" or is it just because tri posted?

I'm about as pro-cop as they come but this still doesn't sit well with me! I applaud them for stepping to the plate but still it should have never happened if the first golden rule of firearm safety was followed. I'm not a cop so I guess I don't understand.

Zeke
 
This Question is for NVB & dude!

Was She Reaching in to Her Pocket?











[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
Ridiculous. This was NO accident. Blatant firearm misuse. What's worse is this behavior was condoned by the PD, who should be on top of firearm handling more so than any other entity!!

As a hunter's education instructor, it never ceases to amaze me how people can violate the 4 basic firearm safety rules: 1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded! 2. Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction! 3. Be sure of your target and what is beyond! 4. NEVER POINT A FIREARM AT SOMETHING YOU DO NOT INTEND TO SHOOT.

4 basic rules. Is it really that hard to comprehend??
 
In trainings we use "simunition" guns. This is a generality in law enforcement. The guns are blue and have non-gun things written all over them.

These guns fire expensive little plastic bullets out of specialized cartridges. They don't look like regular munitions to the trained eye. Police officers know what they are looking at because they are blue or red filled clear plastic projectiles that once fired and upon striking their target, break open and release a thick kinda wet soapy substance that marks the target.

Now, from experience, we NEVER EVER bring live munitions for real firearms to trainings such as this.

The reason that the PIO said he didn't know they made bullets for that gun is probably because it was a simunition gun that takes the special little expensive rounds. But as is seen with shot gun calibers, a 16 gauge shell will chamber in a 12 gauge shotgun .


What happened in this case? Here is some speculation based on experience and understanding of how these scenarios are played out:

Some one some where "effedd" up really badly. Someone placed live ammo into a simunition gun and that gun was used in a training. I would venture a guess that the officer who shot the lady did not load the sim gun but merely used it.

No cop ever would knowingly load a gun and shoot your grandmother. A gross error and mistake was made. Negligence will be found and the PD will pay handsomely. And by the PD I mean their reinsurer will pay the millions of dollar claim. An investigation both internal and from an outside agency will be conducted and charges, if any, will be forwarded to the county prosecutor office for review and filing.

Don't jump to conclusions. This department could have told the media to pound sand and not release any info on this case. They chose to be open and upfront with the public.

The following investigations will reveal the findings and evidence of the case. It will be interesting to see what happens.
 
So Travis before you were saying we should be proud the police were up front with us about this but now in post 14 you tell us to not jump to conclusions because the police weren't up front about this???????

Just accept these idiots made a bad mistake. Its not a representation of all police but these morons need to be directed to a new career path.
 
I'd try to explain it to you but I simply can't. For that Tristate I am sorry.

I don't see where the contradiction is but more that you're grasping at straws trying to pick another fight. Please don't.
 
Don't be sorry Travis.

If a fight is what it takes to keep some village idiots from killing grandmas I am fine with that. Pointing out that people who should know the rules of firearm safety are violating those rules ISN'T GRASPING AT STRAWS.
 
>Don't be sorry Travis.
>
>If a fight is what it
>takes to keep some village
>idiots from killing grandmas I
>am fine with that.
>Pointing out that people who
>should know the rules of
>firearm safety are violating those
>rules ISN'T GRASPING AT STRAWS.
>

It wasn't a firearm tritard. I thought your level of understanding was such that you'd be able to grasp that. It is a training tool in with we actually use to shoot each other. No different than paint ball.

We practice with like-framed guns so that we don't create any training scars.

You refuse to see things as anything other than your own perverted cop hating views. We get it buddy. You be smart. You be pretty. You be kind. You be the bestest!

Your lack of understanding lends to your lack of substance in most arguments.
 
If it ain't a firearm then somebody is a murderer. Because apparently you can put real f-ing bullets in it and kill a REAL GRANDMA.

ARE YOU TELLING ME IF YOU CAN TAKE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T A FIREARM , ACCORDING TO YOU , ALTER IT SO IT CAN SHOOT REAL AMMUNITION, LOAD IT AND KILL SOMEONE THAT'S AN "ACCIDENT".

Hey Travis how many times have you shot Grandmas with a simunition round?
 
42172139349576800320254789205325212524579665038n.jpg
 
So No Replies from Post # 10?

Would it be Fair to Say They LaVoyed Her?











[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
>If it ain't a firearm then
>somebody is a murderer.
>Because apparently you can put
>real f-ing bullets in it
>and kill a REAL GRANDMA.
>
>
>ARE YOU TELLING ME IF YOU
>CAN TAKE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T
>A FIREARM , ACCORDING TO
>YOU , ALTER IT SO
>IT CAN SHOOT REAL AMMUNITION,
>LOAD IT AND KILL SOMEONE
>THAT'S AN "ACCIDENT".
>
>Hey Travis how many times have
>you shot Grandmas with a
>simunition round?

You don't know what you're talking about... But what's new.
 
I asked you a question slick. How many grandmas have you shot at with simunitions?


What would you say if your boss told you it's your turn to shoot blanks at grandmas?

I want an answer.
 
>I asked you a question slick.
> How many grandmas have
>you shot at with simunitions?
>
>
>
>What would you say if your
>boss told you it's your
>turn to shoot blanks at
>grandmas?
>
>I want an answer.

Gosh dam this is like arguing with a fence post.
 
Except the fence post is smarter than you and doesn't defend unsafe and unethical behavior. You dodged my questions Travis.

If this was your grandma Travis would you still pick defending a dumb unqualified officer over your own family?
 
> So No Replies from Post
># 10?
>
>Would it be Fair to Say
>They LaVoyed Her?
>

>[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned
>in to be Hillary's
>Intern[/font]
>

According to the article the cop who shot her was playing the part of the "bad guy" and she was playing the part of the victim.

Maybe the "bad guy" told her to take off her underwear and she refused so the "bad guy"(who is really a cop in real life) shot her. Only he really did shoot her.

I don't know how these community exercises work so that's just a guess. :)
 
>Except the fence post is smarter
>than you and doesn't defend
>unsafe and unethical behavior.
>You dodged my questions Travis.
>
>
>If this was your grandma Travis
>would you still pick defending
>a dumb unqualified officer over
>your own family?


You're a moron tribaby. Your argument lacks validity so you turn to insults. You're old and lived a crap life and now all you can do is whine about a profession you'd never qualify for. Go taxidermy some more mangled animals and plumb some toilets. After the buyer uses his toilet and looks at his mount he will realize how amazingly similar your work is.

I would gladly use a sim gun during a citizen academy. We don't discriminate based on age so any person of any age would be qualified to attend. If my grandmother was shot then I'd expect answers... which were given. But because I'm not a judgmental plick like you and I understand that no one but Jesus Christ, and apparently you, is perfect and that mistakes are constantly made it doesn't leave my panties in a wad like it does for you. You eat up this anti cop rhetoric like you eat your diarrhea meds. You then spew out bull crap and hijack threads non stop.

You'd never qualify to go through the hell police endure. You'd never make it. You'd be referred to an easier form of employment like picking wedgies and your nose.


I hope you don't talk to fence posts to often. You may need an increase on your meds.
 
Not unbelievable at all, just another example of XYZ's finest out there protecting and serving... protecting their own asses and serving their own interests...

Idiots, with badges, guns, and full power of the state to back them up.

And it's all good cause they were forthcoming???? WTF were they gonna do? Room full of witnesses and most likely multiple video tapes of their prowess-turned-tragedy. The blue wall can be impressive but even it has it's limits.

My favorite from recent clips is the Steamboat copper/firearms safety instructor that had his kid shoot himself with his service gun. Month or two later and still under investigation, dead kid and no charges filed, where if your dog falls out of your truck and is killed on main street you will be up on several charges in 24 hrs.

THAT is a blue wall protecting its bricks, very impressive for a small department in a gossipy town.
 
Oh your fencepost comment wasn't an insult?????? Its a little late to take the high road now boy.

SO you would gladly use a weapon that you know can kill people on innocent civilians????????????


You don't get it Travis. SOME "MISTAKES" AS YOU CALL THEM MEAN YOU AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO HOLD THE POSITION. You know how you say I could never be a cop??? WELL THESE IDIOTS SHOULDN'T BE COPS.

By the way I love a post where you declare you aren't judgemental and still make two statements about how I am not good enough to be a cop. That is as perfect an example of a hypocrite as I have ever seen on these forums. What is amazing is you are too stupid to recognize those words typed right next to each other.


IF A PERSON WHO'S SKILL SET INCLUDES MAINTAINING A FIREARM, FIREARM SAFETY, AND LETHAL USE OF FIREARMS IS TOO STUPID TO NOT REALIZE WHAT LIVE AMMUNITION LOOKS LIKE OR WHAT LIVE AMMUNITION DOES TO LIVING PEOPLE, LOADS IT INTO A FIREARM, POINTS IT AT PEOPLE AND KILLS SOMEONE HE OR SHE, AT BEST, SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER BE TRUSTED IN THAT POSITION AGAIN. Period. You can call that judgemental. You can call me a "plick". I am willing to take those titles if it means the likes of you Travis or any of these other idiots won't kill another person using this scenario ever again.
 
I tell you what lets tone it down and just ask a general question for anyone who want to join this thread.

Is there anyone here who isn't a police officer that thinks they could shoot and kill an innocent woman, while at work, and keep their job?
 
>Not unbelievable at all, just another
>example of XYZ's finest out
>there protecting and serving... protecting
>their own asses and serving
>their own interests...
>
>Idiots, with badges, guns, and full
>power of the state to
>back them up.
>
>And it's all good cause they
>were forthcoming???? WTF were
>they gonna do? Room
>full of witnesses and most
>likely multiple video tapes of
>their prowess-turned-tragedy. The blue
>wall can be impressive but
>even it has it's limits.
>
>
>My favorite from recent clips is
>the Steamboat copper/firearms safety instructor
>that had his kid shoot
>himself with his service gun.
> Month or two later
>and still under investigation, dead
>kid and no charges filed,
>where if your dog falls
>out of your truck and
>is killed on main street
>you will be up on
>several charges in 24 hrs.
>
>
>THAT is a blue wall protecting
>its bricks, very impressive for
>a small department in a
>gossipy town.


Amazon's deal of the day is tinfoil hats. Might save you from the blood thirsty ravenous self serving conspirators you are worried about. You should use caution when carpet bombing a whole group of people speaking out of emotion. Pretty broad brush to paint with. I suppose it is only the blue wall that is so narrow minded.

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 

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