Unit 42?

[Az48]

Just wondering if you guy's think I should stop hunting unit 42?I know there's not many in this unit,but I've seen some nice Deer in this unit.Granted I only been hunting this place a few times.I was thinking of going up to the sticks for some bigger #s.It's nice not running into other people where I go though!I've been patient to this point,but odds have to be in my favor going up north.
Safe hunting

 

[HullinPhx]

the Muzzy hunt in 42 is better than the regular hunt in my opinion. The desert deer numbers as a whole are down not just in 42.

John

 

[creed]

I killed my first deer there 46 years ago. I know the unit well. It is not what it used to be. What people call a good day of seeing deer now would have been a disaster 20 years ago.

I have just about quit hunting it. The muzzy hunt will produce the biggest deer generally but we have taken some over 190 during the general hunts. There are better desert units but it comes down to what you want to do.

 

[Az48]

Thank you both for your thought's!I have been hiking that are also since 1994,but I need to get more off the beatin path.The biggest heard I've seen in this unit was about 12,I think,but was also in 2003.I'm not giving up!I have yet to harvest my first Mule deer.I know in time it will happen.Thanks again for you input.

PS I will be going this year,and in the new one also.

 

[Forepaw]

Howdy creed,

I started hunting there 1967-68. I can believe the 190 class deer, but they have always been rare, and soon will probably go away altogether. Had some good times there.

forepaw

 

[AZWALKER]

42 has 3 problems right now, coyotes, rain and popularity.

You can't do anything about rain, nothing. Popularity will wain and people will lose interest. The coyotes! That is the one issue we can control out there. The dept has bumped the bag limit up on lions and extended hunting hours but I think sheep were 100 percent of the reason for that. These Dec tags could pull some much needed attention to the rest of the state which will help the desert. We need a study done on mule deer that live below 3500' in regards to predation.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[Az48]

Thanks azwalker!Good info.Can't wait to harvest my first Deer!Maybe I should put some carbon to a few Coyote's?

Safe hunting

 

[huntazido]

I hate to say it but I think the demise of the 40 units is all the braggarts who hunt them. I'm 49, born and raised in Arizona and until the last 7-10 years I never knew there were huntable populations of deer out there. I surely didn't know about the quality or any big bucks being harvested.

That has changed quite a bit in recent years. Now there are guys bragging about all the big bucks and posting lots of pics of bucks taken every year. They tell people they don't have to hunt north of the "big ditch" because there are big bucks here. They almost seem to mock the folks that hunt up north.

Seems things would be better had they left well enough alone. A few had a good thing going but now the secret is out of the bag and people wonder why numbers are down. Guys are guiding in there and posting all the pics. All that did was make more people aware of the area. Realistically, how many big mature animals did they think they could kill every year before there were very few left?

Some timely rain would probably help too.

 

[AZWALKER]

LAST EDITED ON May-27-12 AT 09:14AM (MST)[p]If you think 2 guides did enough to "bring numbers down" you might need to learn a bit more about mule deer bud. I don't remember seeing that hunt success has gone up at all in the last 10 years. I didn't read anywhere that all the sudden people were shooting does. Buck to does ratio is still in the 30's in 42. Has the populartiy of 42 somehow caused more coyotes to pop out of the sand? You might consider the effects of you words on a public forum before you start talking about things you don't seem to know much about.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[Az48]

All I know is I've seen some real nice shooter's but,they are very few,and far between.The first deer with horn's is going to receive my Goldtip arrow.I just wont to fill a void in my freezer!These shooters were seen out of season,and you know they were now where to be found,during season.One day it will be a Moose on my pin.

 

[AZWALKER]

Generally speaking, there are very few hunters that have been consistantly successful in 42 or desert. One of them posted here. Many will go out and try but few will succeed. 42 has seen a rise in popularity and some of it maybe do to the internet but overall numbers have nothing to do with it. Herd numbers has little to do with bucks and everything to do with does and fawn recruitment. Are there less "big" bucks? Absolutely, but more importantly there are less deer and nobody is to blame for that. The unit will come back. 21 has seen a rebound in big bucks recently. And it recieves 10x the pressure 42 does. It can and will come back.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[Az48]

I couldn't imagine the outcome if does where to be harvested here?I even been thinking of going to Minnesota to hunt Whitetails on relative land.I always thought that I would have a successful hunt there?Someday I'll go there though.Thanks for your input,I do appreciate it!

 

[AZWALKER]

Don't be affraid to venture out a bit in the desert. We are blessed enough to have vast amounts of good huntable desert here. Don't be affraid to think outside the box.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[Az48]

That's just what I wont to here.I was thinking of making a ground blind with nearby stuff,because this spot,and stalk stuff I don't get?How do you sneak up on a mule deer with all these rock's?I just have a hard time doing it!I thought about trying a few layers of thick socks even.Of course I read something similar some where.I will never give up this great thing called hunting!I have to try eating the heart,maybe kidneys?I'm real tired of beef!

Thanks again!

 

[AZWALKER]

Huntazido, please do a favor. If these "guides" are posting pics of all these deer out of 42 and the desert, could you please post links to all these pics? I can remember seeing 2 or 3 but maybe I missed the other "ton". As a matter of fact, why don't you go ahead and post all the pics of these huge desert bucks that everyone, not just the guides, have posted. I'm willing to bet you can't find 20 on MM.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[huntazido]

AZwalker:

Tell me why you can have an opinion and I can't. Unless you are some kind of wildlife biologist with years of research and statistics to support what you are saying, everything you say is nothing but conjecture. You can believe whatever you want but I have said nothing that has not been said before.

YOU go back over the last 7-10 years and you will see exactly what I'm talking about and you know it too. I never said "tons" of pics I saw. With the exception of units north of the grand canyon, I can think of no other place in AZ where people post the units they came from. It is almost like they want everyone to know where they are being taken. You don't see it if from unit 23, 22 or 21 but you do see the 40's mentioned quite a bit with big desert mule deer.

I never said anything about doe numbers either. I was merely mentioning the big mature bucks. I beleive Creed is the one who said something about overall deer numbers being down.

What exactly did I say that wasn't true? Sometimes the truth hurts and you don't want to admit it. If more people would have kept quiet about the 40 units I would imagine more mature bucks would be running around. True or not true?

Find someone with no profit motive, who has hunted these units for 20 years or more. When you find them ask them why they think deer numbers are down. Specifically mature buck numbers.

I did also say some timely rain would benefit the deer too.

I haven't the time or energy to argue with you. You beleive what you want to believe and I'll do the same.

 

[AZWALKER]

You and I both know who you are talking about. This forum is not just a conversation around a campfire, this is a public forum for all the world to see. What you say can have a major effect on public perception and you can effect livelyhoods. You are more than welcome to your opinion but when you claim that the demise of a unit is the fault of certain individuals, you had better have some facts to back your claims. You said "A few had a good thing going but now the secret is out of the bag and people wonder why numbers are down"... You didn't specify bucks or does. You said "Guys are guiding in there and posting all the pics"... Show me the pics or a link to them! I'll tell you the facts. These "guides" have posted no more than 5-6 pics on these forums of deer their clients have killed, if that many. For one, those aren't even close to "all" the pics and two, I can go and find you alot more pics that were desert deer that weren't out of 42 and weren't taken by these guides. As a matter of fact, I can only think of one pic those guides posted that actually came out of 42 and... they didn't say on here that it came out of 42!

Coming from those in the know, like Creed, there are less big bucks in 42 and I trust what he says. I don't know anyone who has hunted 42 as long as he has and he and I have had many conversations about how there are less big bucks and why. If you didn't even know there were huntable deer 7-10 years ago, what first hand frame of reference do you have that there are less big bucks? Someone elses word? And you're going to take someone elses word and use it to point out that a few guides are the reason there are less bucks or there are more hunters?

I'll tell you what. If you want to have a conversation about desert deer and the biology, predation, management... great lets have it. I have educated myself and I do know a thing or two. But if you want to come on here and make assumtions about why there are less bucks and who's fault it is, bring some facts. I'll tell you what, along with those pics you can find me, why don't you post the survey numbers and hunter success rates for the last 7-10 years and we'll find out if numbers are down or if there are more hunters out there in 42. Bring stuff that is provable before you try and blame people. Opinions are a dime a dozen, theres only one truth.





"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[AZWALKER]

"Unless you are some kind of wildlife biologist with years of research and statistics to support what you are saying, everything you say is nothing but conjecture."

I don't need to be a biologist to have access to yers of research and statistics. You should check this website out, read these publications and take the time to educate yourself. I did and this is where i draw my data from.

http://muledeerworkinggroup.com/index_files/Page1525.htm

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[AZWALKER]

Archery is tough no matter the method. Spot and stalk is a noisy buisness and requires massive amounts of moving slow in warm weather but you know what you are going after, you've already spotted the buck. I use a pair of thick wool socks when I'm stalking in the desert and if you move slow enough, you can be quiet.

Ground blinds are pretty random. You never really know what will come in. A good time IMO for a ground blind is during the pre rut. Bucks frequent water holes to sniff out resident does. I believe that bucks will go from water hole to water hole to locate does.

Once the rut kicks in and the does come in to estrus, I like to find an area with several herds of does. I like to have two or three spots where I can glass and find these herds of does and watch for bucks coming in. I prefer spot and stalk but a ground blind on a water hole could be just as effective. The bucks will follow the does into water.

If you have the time, I would try and dedicate at least a week to your hunt. I would plan this time anywhere from the beginning to the middle of Jan. You can hunt weekends in Dec leading up to that week to get a feel for what is going on.

Rifle hunting is a completely different matter and I haven't personally rifle hunted the desert much. Although, I plan to start. If you PM Creed, he might be willing to give you some advice. Again, its going to be lots and lots of glassing so if you aren't already... get good at it.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[ruthunter]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-05-12 AT 11:46AM (MST)[p]Well ive hunted 42 for YEARS and if you think you can go hunt over there and dirt nap a toad then by all means go for it. 42 can be a very challenging hunt and after most guys try the hunt they never put in for it again. Sure there are still some nice bucks in the unit but its not like it used to be 15yrs ago.

There have been guides that have done very well there in recent years but it takes a certain breed of man and a certain know how to find those monster bucks in the flatlands. Ive killed bucks in 42 with a bow and a rifle over the years and after last year i will not put in for it again for quite awhile even though i tagged out. If you dont find the pockets of deer and find the green up areas this hunt will be the worst hunt youve tried. Theres alot of country in 42 that has no deer using it and i noticed alot more coyotes on my cameras last year and i think if we addressed the predators more that the deer #'s would rebound. Here is my buck from 2011.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/8589dave_2011.jpg

 

[Az48]

That's a nice deer you harvested!Thanks for the pic.Your right about all the spots with no deer in it.I know I'll get one sooner or later,later in this case.Thanks for the info!

Safe hunting!

 

[adicted]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-12 AT 06:32AM (MST)[p]Long time viewer first time poster. Been lurking for years but never logged in, figured it was about time. Just started hunting this unit 2 years ago because my son wanted to do the junior hunt. The buck to doe ratio is the worst i have ever seen. We had no problem finding deer in this unit but the bucks are scarce. We ended up locating a 2x 3x and 4x and just couldnt get the 4. So hear is his 3x that we made a stalk on. After seeing the nice 4x he wanted to put back in for 42 so if we get drawn we will be back. Its definately one of those units where you get high and glass and keep moving. Too much time in one spot will hurt you.

 

[AZWALKER]

Funny enough, Game and Fish claims the buck/doe ratio is in the 30's per 100. They say that about most of the desert units. What scared them this year was the fawn/doe ratio. Haven't seen the numbers yet but I think its gonna be bad. Talking to one of my best freinds last night and we came to a conclusion. By the time a unit like 42 get popular, the hayday is over. Its the pathfinding hunters that are striking out and finding new areas. They will set up in a unit and have a string of good years and by the time the word gets out and a unit gets a reputation, they have killed their big deer and moved on. There are still big deer in 42 but not near as many as there were. With the fawn/doe ratios trending down, it doesn't look good for the next 5-6 years. The damage is done, everyone just needs to find new areas and wait it out. Mybe kill some coyotes in the down time.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[ASB]

Um, if we went by the premis that guides bragging has hurt a unit, let's throw 13 A or 13 B into that argument. Those units have nothing but big bucks all over the magazines & internet. Those guides up there do great work & show the world. Why then is there big bucks year after year?

Oh, it's the way G&F manages those units. The 40's, 20's etc are not getting the attention they deserve. When (if) they ever do, you will start to see more mature deer. Until then, there is hundred of thousands of acres out there.....a couple guides have not ruined anything. And, somebody that has never been there, trying to go hunt those units based on internet chatter is very highly unlikely to even find deer out in that desert. Difficult is an understatement.

On another note, I like the idea of talking about it....maybe we will get some more G&F attention for those units. Until then, please shoot the coyotes, they are hurting things as much as lack of rain.

 

[azoutback]

Um, if we went by the premis that guides bragging has hurt a unit, let's throw 13 A or 13 B into that argument. Those units have nothing but big bucks all over the magazines & internet. Those guides up there do great work & show the world. Why then is there big bucks year after year?

Because there arent many tags. Doesnt matter how many people see those huge bucks in magazines,What matters is that tag numbers are low. How many tags in unit 42? That should anwer your question.

 

[ASB]

Exactly......it's how G&F manages things. Their aerial counts found that the deer were down almost 70% (from what I was told by G&F) in some of those desert units when they flew them this year. They barely cut any tags for this year (some in 42 & some in 44). I am not here to argue or defend anyone.....doesn't matter if Jim Shockey had it in his TV show, no man alive is responsible for that kind of decline.

 

[AZWALKER]

Game and fish dropped tag numbers in those units to comply with the new buck/doe ratios and to appease us and make us feel better. It had ZERO to do with the herd being down 70%. I don't care what they tell anyone. They don't want to spend the money or fight the greenies and do what will truly help that herd and that is deal with predators. That is 90% of the problem out there. Tags have nothing to do with it. Not if buck doe ratios are above 10/100 and they absolutely are. Bucks do not dictate the size of a herd, does do. That is a fact. Cutting tags is to manage us.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[muleymaniac]

azwalker?--just for a little clarification, how many yrs have you been activily hunting unit 42 and how many deer have you taken from the unit?

 

[AZWALKER]

Oh you want to play that game? I'll tell you what, you tell me what difference that makes and enable your profile so I know who I'm really talking to and I'll play your game. That's funny. The answer to one of your questions is 10, I will let you guess which one. But it wouldn't matter if I have been hunting it for 10 years or took 10 bucks. A guy could take historical accounts from other hunters, spend two years in there and see what the issue is. As far as my comments about cutting tags, a 10 year old could see the basic logic that cutting buck tags does not effect heard health if buck/doe ratios are at healthy levels. We DO NOT KILL DOES IN 42! And does are the ones that drop fawns NOT BUCKS. So if all the does are being bred and the herd is shrinking, IT IS NOT ABOUT TAGS.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[couesmagnet]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-12 AT 11:23AM (MST)[p]I would agree with you huntazido. I dont know who has been spreading the word around about 42 and all those units, but in the last 2 to 3 years, everyone in AZ that didnt know about these units now does.There has been more talk about these units lately than any other units for deer in az. From rutnhard to coueswhitetail.com there are posts about these units with more replies than all other posts. you wouldnt believe how many people down here in the valley including myself, that would never have even looked that way, that are now looking very seriously at throwing some very serious points down there. I know at least 3-4 dudes with 7-8 points that are going all in this year down there cause of the chatter. This is how these units are going to go down the chitter. In the past there were only a handfull of hard core dudes hunting these units hard, and now with all the exposure by guides and other people who have done well down there, get ready for many many many more very experienced hard core dudes from the valley and every where else to come down there to go over these units with a fine tooth comb. it makes a huge diff when you stick a bunch of really good hunters in units like these year after year. There is nothing that can ruin a unit faster than opening your mouth, not even coyotes. Heck there are lots of really good hunters now talking about doing the early hunts down there, and with all those tags available on the early hunts, this will make a diff over just a few years on how many big bucks are harvested overall.

 

[ruthunter]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-12 AT 12:12PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-12
>AT 11:23?AM (MST)
>
>I would agree with you huntazido.
>I dont know who has
>been spreading the word around
>about 42 and all those
>units, but in the last
>2 to 3 years, everyone
>in AZ that didnt know
>about these units now does.There
>has been more talk about
>these units lately than any
>other units for deer in
>az. From rutnhard to coueswhitetail.com
>there are posts about these
>units with more replies than
>all other posts. you wouldnt
>believe how many people down
>here in the valley including
>myself, that would never have
>even looked that way, that
>are now looking very seriously
>at throwing some very serious
>points down there. I know
>at least 3-4 dudes with
>7-8 points that are going
>all in this year down
>there cause of the chatter.
>This is how these units
>are going to go down
>the chitter. In the past
>there were only a handfull
>of hard core dudes hunting
>these units hard, and now
>with all the exposure by
>guides and other people who
>have done well down there,
>get ready for many many
>many more very experienced hard
>core dudes from the valley
>and every where else to
>come down there to go
>over these units with a
>fine tooth comb. it makes
>a huge diff when you
>stick a bunch of really
>good hunters in units like
>these year after year. There
>is nothing that can ruin
>a unit faster than opening
>your mouth, not even coyotes.
>Heck there are lots of
>really good hunters now talking
>about doing the early hunts
>down there, and with all
>those tags available on the
>early hunts, this will make
>a diff over just a
>few years on how many
>big bucks are harvested overall.
>

Hopefully you guys dont blow alot of points on the early hunt in 42 because 1-3 pts is all it takes to draw a rifle tag over there. The muzzy hunt would be a better hunt for someone with 5-7 pts. Also keep in mind that all the hype you are hearing about has been when 42 was good years ago. BOTTOM LINE is you guys missed the glory years 10-20 years ago. The hype still follows those years and i for one know how difficult of a hunt it is over there. Be prepared to go days without seeing a buck or even days without seeing a doe.If a guy wants a challenging hunt then 42 would be your ticket..Good luck in the draw!

 

[couesmagnet]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-12 AT 12:48PM (MST)[p]>>LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-12
>>AT 11:23?AM (MST)
>>
>>I would agree with you huntazido.
>>I dont know who has
>>been spreading the word around
>>about 42 and all those
>>units, but in the last
>>2 to 3 years, everyone
>>in AZ that didnt know
>>about these units now does.There
>>has been more talk about
>>these units lately than any
>>other units for deer in
>>az. From rutnhard to coueswhitetail.com
>>there are posts about these
>>units with more replies than
>>all other posts. you wouldnt
>>believe how many people down
>>here in the valley including
>>myself, that would never have
>>even looked that way, that
>>are now looking very seriously
>>at throwing some very serious
>>points down there. I know
>>at least 3-4 dudes with
>>7-8 points that are going
>>all in this year down
>>there cause of the chatter.
>>This is how these units
>>are going to go down
>>the chitter. In the past
>>there were only a handfull
>>of hard core dudes hunting
>>these units hard, and now
>>with all the exposure by
>>guides and other people who
>>have done well down there,
>>get ready for many many
>>many more very experienced hard
>>core dudes from the valley
>>and every where else to
>>come down there to go
>>over these units with a
>>fine tooth comb. it makes
>>a huge diff when you
>>stick a bunch of really
>>good hunters in units like
>>these year after year. There
>>is nothing that can ruin
>>a unit faster than opening
>>your mouth, not even coyotes.
>>Heck there are lots of
>>really good hunters now talking
>>about doing the early hunts
>>down there, and with all
>>those tags available on the
>>early hunts, this will make
>>a diff over just a
>>few years on how many
>>big bucks are harvested overall.
>>
>
>Hopefully you guys dont blow alot
>of points on the early
>hunt in 42 because 1-3
>pts is all it takes
>to draw a rifle tag
>over there. The muzzy hunt
>would be a better hunt
>for someone with 5-7 pts.
>Also keep in mind that
>all the hype you are
>hearing about has been when
>42 was good years ago.
>Bottom line is you guys
>missed the glory years 10-20
>years ago. The hype still
>follows those years and i
>for one know how difficult
>of a hunt it is
>over there. Be prepared to
>go days without seeing a
>buck or even days without
>seeing a doe.If a guy
>wants a challenging hunt then
>42 would be your ticket..Good
>luck in the draw!

Ruthunter, i was talking about the late muzz hunt in reference to people with 7-8 points. When i referenced the early hunts, i was just trying to say that there will be a lot more good hunters who draw their kaibab/strip tags, and starting over in the points department who will put in for the early hunts to give her a whirl. Those bucks genes are down there and as long as there is even 1 or 2 high 190,s deer left down there then that's all some people need to know to give it hell. I certainly dont think it's easy, in fact it seems harder than any other hunt you might try in the state. With enough cams on water sources and enough trips down there, and in the air legal flying time, things tend to get found. its those way off the beaten path areas that still hold the bigger deer that will start to have a few more visitors now with all the hype. I sure am glad i'm not one of the dudes down there that's been killing big bucks in those units for years and also kept his mouth closed, cause it has to be heart breaking to see all the chatter as of late about these units. On a side note, i went down there last year in january, and figured out rather quickly how hard these units would be to hunt, and what a cool challenge it would be to kill a big deer out of there. "It's not about how hard the unit is to hunt, but how much hell you give it." Good luck to all this year, especially the juniors hunters (the young ones). Sounds to me like if they don't cut tags on the early hunts in these units soon, an implosion is just around the corner.

 

[desertbucks]

I have had my feet propped up on my desk with my popcorn in hand the last couple of days reading this thread. My brother and I started hunting this unit in 1992 and we have actively hunted it year after year. The glory days of this unit is DONE. If you desire a challenging hunt then I suggest hunting this unit in the early rifle hunt. I dont care if you have the best binoculars, tripod etc. A guy would be lucky to harvest a 150" deer in this hunt. The big bucks are not around like they once were. There is miles and miles of desert in this unit with NO deer bottom line. If you think you can shoot a big buck in this unit on the early rifle hunt then good luck. I would love to see the pictures. Good luck on the hunt!!

 

[AZWALKER]

I'll tell you what, if these great hunters don't know how to or have never hunted the desert they are in for a rude awakening. Nothing against them or you but desert deer are just different. They are a mountain muley with ADHD. I wish them the best of luck though!

As far as the attention 42 gets or has gotten or why, it matters not. The herd is down 70% as it is not because of the press it has gotten. Unless guys are poaching trophy does. None of us wants to see good areas found out but its gonna happen regardless of what we wish. In the case of 42, I welcome the attention. Attention will get game and fish to act. At this point the unit is shot, let's do something to fix it. Again, predators are the problem, there's no two ways about it. So instead of arguing (I'm guilty too) let do something about it. I will ask this again, would someone please post links to all these monster 42 bucks everyone is posting. Talk is talk and anyone can talk about all these huge 42 bucks, let's see them!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[AZWALKER]

And make sure when you do post these links or pics that they came out of 42. Remember half the state of Arizona is desert, a cactus in the background doesn't mean a thing.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[couesmagnet]

Azwalker, your about to blow a gasket, it's all good brother, relax. I have seen pics of at least 3 deer out of those units down there from the last 2 years from just the early hunts, that go in the mid 190's. I have also seen trail cam pics of deer that would go 200's in the 39-42 units recently. On the flip side, if you do the math with all the early tags in these units though, a fella has about as much chance killing a big deer down there as he has getting struck by lightning. I dont have pics to post of these deer i mentioned earlier, but you will have to trust me that these are big deer. Also, desert deer are desert deer, and if you have lived and hunted in arizona in the deserts around phoenix or tucson, after a while they(desert deer) are all 1 and the same. I dont know about anyone else but i love lightning like odds of a big jackhammer desert buck, just maybe not this year!!!

 

[creed]

There are still some big bucks in 42. Finding them is another thing altogether. The unit is done as a big buck unit. The deer herds are down across it. I can still find deer worth shooting but it is not worth my time or effort to do it. There are far better units in the state.

Too many guys think that the muzzy hunt is a cake walk. I can tell you from experience that it can be as tough a hunt as there is in the state. The bucks are in a pre-rut state and are not where they were a month earlier. You can hunt days without seeing a good deer.

Another thing, areas that in the past that held good numbers of deer are now overrun with hunters, especially during the early general hunt. There are many areas that have great access to RV's. It is like a zoo in some places with the quads, jeeps, road hunters tearing around. It is not a lot of fun if you are trying to hunt in some of these spots.

Guys like ruthunter and desertbucks that have hunted 42 and done well are giving some good advice. I would listen to them. AZWalker has had some extensive talks with G&F and has some good info.
But some guys are going to put in regardless. To those that draw a 42 tag thinking they are going to hammer a toad, good luck. You are going to need it.

 

[AZWALKER]

Will someone for Gods sake please explain to me what cutting tags is going to do!!!

And fly these areas??? Cams on water sources??? That tells me all I need to know. The best desert hunter I know has pics of some huge deer and I don't know that he's killed one of them... And yes... In 42.


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[couesmagnet]

All i am trying to say by using cameras on water or any other method of scouting ie;flying (which i am against anyways), was that when a unit or section of units get this much attention, that tools such as cams or other scouting devices get used more frequently as a result. I am not sure what you mean by "that tells me all i need to know", but i will assume it's a compliment. I spent over a 147 days in the field just last year, and i am still learning something new every additional day i get to spend in the outdoors. Also the 3 early bucks i saw pics of were ALL found by cameras on water. 3 out of 4 bucks on the cams got dusted on the early hunt, so i guess they were just super lucky or cams might just work, proof is in the pudding maybe? Im not going to go post for post anymore, and i have lots of respect for you guys including azwalker who hunt that stuff and somehow muck up big bucks every once in a while. I cant wait to at least try it someday, and i would be prouder of a mid 190's buck from down there than any of the 3 200 inchers i killed from az over the years. Nothing would beat a big desert beast in my book.

 

[AZWALKER]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-12 AT 02:26PM (MST)[p]I have had a rough day on this topic and I realize that. Sorry for coming across that way. I can promise you I have seen the same pics you are speaking about and they aren't on the internet, at least not that I have seen. Ruthunter and Desertbucks have probably seen them too.

Here is my bottom line:

I got a little T'd when huntazido tried to blame some guides for the decline of deer in 42. Have there been big bucks killed? Absolutely. Has there been more talk about the unit? Yep! Are the deer in trouble because of it. I do not think so. Overall deer numbers are down and that unit is hurting for one main reason and that is lack of predator control, I can prove it. The success rate has not gone up in the last 10 years, that's a fact. So more deer are not being killed but there are less deer. What does that tell you? That means fawns are not surviving and it aint us killing them. There are a handful of hunters and guides who have be consistant in the desert, I am not one of them. By the time I got a good handle on how to hunt the desert consistantly, 42 was done. I have hunted 42 as recently as last year but I have moved my efforts else where. The guys that I know that have hunted the desert and hunted it well are as good as any hunter in the state. If you can hunt the desert, you can hunt anywhere.

Anyone that wants to "start" hunting 42 is a day late and a dollar short. Sorry to say it but its the truth. If you want to blame someone, blame the four-legged furry kind that pant.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[Az48]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-12 AT 02:37PM (MST)[p]You know whats funny?I started a similar thread about three or four years ago,and I think three people relied to it.Basically telling me the unit was no good.
The only reason I started to hunt this unit,is because it's close to home.I will get a deer,you can count on it!I don't care about the size of the horns.I'm not saying I don't wont a nice rack,but I just wont some venison!!!!

The largest deer I seen in this unit was back in the 1990's.Three years ago I saw a real nice shooter(out of season).

I don't wont to go up north because of the crowds.That's another reason for hunting this unit in the first place.

Safe hunting! I forgot to add that I only bow hunt.

 

[AZWALKER]

Now do you see what you did?

Its not that its a bad unit man, its still a good fun unit to hunt. You also also need to know you posted about a brewing issue that has just been dormant. Don't be discouraged by me or anyone else. I think I told you before in this thread, don't be affraid to strike out and trailblaze a bit. As much pressure that certain areas of 42 get, there are twice as many places that don't see hunters at all. 42 is a hot topic unit still for some odd reason but whatever, I don't even really hunt it anymore. My concern is for the deer herds as a whole in the desert and I want to see some things done so that my kids can someday hunt out there and have a chance. I'm done peeing on shoes in this thread. Have a good one everyone. I might be back but I doubt it. I need to figure out what to put in for... The kiabab or the strip.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[HullinPhx]

Just another thought about 42.. What do you think of 42 no longer being open in the late OTC archery hunt it does not open up for Archery until Jan 1st. Will this have any short term / long term impact on the deer?

I for one think it will help both short and long, I know the muzzy hunters are sure happy about it.

I never understood why the took 42 out of the mix for late archery but left in 39 and 41 which also have a muzzy hunt going on at the same time.

Like others have already said. There are big bucks in the but not as many as there use to be.

John

 

[AZWALKER]

John, it has to do with the success ratio of archery vs rifle. If archers are killing more bucks than rifle hunters they start closing seasons. I know they run together but dec archery is veiwed by the dept as a different season than Jan archery. The archery deer draw and closing certains units to dec archery all came about because the rifle only guys were mad we were taking more deer when we are supposed to be the primative weapon. Game and fish has no issue with two hunts going at the same time. Look at the regs for 17a. They reopened dec archery in 17a and they have a rifle hunt going at the same time. The amount of bucks taken during archery vs the amount of hunters is really miniscule. Archery success rate hovers around 8 or 9 I think, maybe less.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[ruthunter]

>Just another thought about 42..
>What do you think of
>42 no longer being open
>in the late OTC archery
>hunt it does not open
>up for Archery until Jan
>1st. Will this have
>any short term / long
>term impact on the deer?
>
>
>I for one think it will
>help both short and long,
>I know the muzzy hunters
>are sure happy about it.
>
>
>I never understood why the took
>42 out of the mix
>for late archery but left
>in 39 and 41 which
>also have a muzzy hunt
>going on at the same
>time.
>
>Like others have already said. There
>are big bucks in the
>but not as many as
>there use to be.
>
>John
They took out the dec hunt because success was to high. When they had a dec hunt the whitetanks looked liked a black friday sell with all the people hunting amongst the picnic tables and hikers. I know alot of guys hammered bucks around the park area.

 

[AZWALKER]

Lol... Black friday sale! That's an understatement. There's a water project slated for later this year near the whitetanks, I ain't saying where though!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[spcheuvront]

AZWALKER,

Young man, you seem to have done well educating yourself.

A sportsman can not make it rain.

They can not change the basic landscape of an area. Yes, they can make improvements. But not really to an extent to increase
the total number of deer in an area. I know this question is up for debate, but in my experience, it doesn't.

We can add more water sources to an area, that is true and does help, in my opinion. But, it still won't increase the number of deer. With more water sources, it gives the deer more chioces
and makes predation harder and allows the deer to spread out.

Fawn cover. This is dependent on the area, and is also dependent on how much rain fall that is received.

Predation.

The AZG&FD isn't going to fight the anti's on this one.

Yes, you can have very expensive arial gunning.

The regs say there is an open season, for the most part, on coyotes. A sportsman can harvest as many as he can all year long.

SO, really what more can they do?

IF, a group of sportsman really cared to increase the number
of fawns that survived, I suggest the following.

Organize yourself!

What ever area you are concerned with, it doesn't really matter.

Find out where ALL the water sources are in your area of concern.

See if they are holding water in april , may , june. Set up cameras on these water sources to find out where the doe herds are most often watering. Also check with the AZG&FD Mgrs., ask the most experienced hunters of the area, along with the guides, everyone can help a little.

Why all this???

These are the areas where you and your group of sportsman need to concentrate your efforts in predator mgmt. Where the does are and where the predators will also be.

I say this in an effort to help.

Just a suggestion , Steve

 

[AZWALKER]

Thank you Steve.

You know, I used to run around like a tape recorder repeating everything I heard from other hunters. Game and fish sucks, they need to cut tags blah blah blah.

Then I had the chance to sit down with Brian Wakeling. I repeated my same recordings I've heard for years. I got a an education of sorts from him though. He was kind enough to give me some literature from the Mule Deer Working Group. I poured over that book. I then took that info and applied it to my area of interest, the desert. The book gave me an asortment of issues that "can" affect Mule deer. I could then toss out things that don't apply to the desert like PJ encroachment, winter range issues and Sagebrush issues and thru the process of deduction, figure out what our problems are down here. It simply boils down to predation and rain. Cutting tags will do nothing but short change the dept. The buck/doe ratios are well with the healthy range. Success has not gone up over the last 10 years and either have tags so hunting pressure is not the reason for the decline. Fawn recruitment and doe mortality are why numbers are down in 42 not hunting or guides. I'll add this, there are less big bucks out there because people are shooting spikes and forkies. People get all upset because guides shoot big bucks... Aren't we all supposed to try and harvest mature deer? Are they somehow bad people because they show people how to do it? They have been killing giants on the strip for years and there is no shortage of giants now! Maybe its because they continue to kill more mature deer up there. Mayeb?


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[spcheuvront]

AZWALKER;

If the hunters would scout their units starting in april and locate the doe herds and consentrate their predator management in those areas, it would help a great deal, plus the hunters would learn more about the area and the deer who inhabitat it.

Tell me about your average joe hunters. Have they come together and stayed together to fight the system and predators?

You seem to have put together a very good group of guys who really care.

Steve

 

[AZWALKER]

Well Steve, the guys are all still there but politics happened and soured the whole deal. I wasn't really responsible for putting the guys together, I just held the megaphone so to speak.

We were rocking and rolling pretty good until one of our guys got an offer to be the new regional director for the MDF. I feel he tried to take the momentum from the work that had already been done to further the MDF and his own ageanda. He made the comment that he wanted SWSA and the people who had committed to being a part of it to become a chapter of the MDF. That didn't fly with me. Our whole intention was to doing something independent. Well from there, it went south and fast. I backed away from the whole deal, it was spoiled by politics.

All the same people want to do something in the desert but we are going to fly under the radar and do projects as they come up. The same old politics keep alot of people from being involved. Fortunately there are still some great people and awesome orgs out there we can help. We are going to be much more selective about who we involve ourselves with in the future and we might form an org for the desert someday. We shall see.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan

 

[spcheuvront]

AZWALKER;

Don't give up my friend!

It doesn't take a major organization to make a difference in a unit or a section of a unit.

Many talk about the need for " SOMEBODY " to do something.

Be that somebody , just do it. It will work!

Steve
USMC
68-72

 

[AZWALKER]

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any issue with MDF per se, I just think that a grassroots effort is more comfortable for most average guys. It doesn't take 5 digit donations to have a voice in small group. I feel like sometime (and I'm not pointing figure and this is certainly not a blanket statement) that the bigger your pocket book, the more your voice is heard. The strip and the kiabab are important places to some people and that's all well and good but they aren't to me and a lot of guys I know. My desire is to see deer herds flourish where I hunt, call me selfish but that's my area of focus. If the big orgs want to help, great but it doesn't require their involvement to justify the need.

We'ree in the summer doldrums right now. Guys are waiting to hear about the draw and that's cool. My plan is to start hitting it hard in late fall when we can start to see how the herds are really looking. The ADA has a water project coming up in Nov for 42 and I plan on helping with that.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan