United Wildlife Cooperative is a up and running!

S

stillhunterman

Active Member
Messages
608
Fellow Sportsmen,

It gives me great pleasure to announce that the United Wildlife Cooperative is finally off the ground and running! Our website is complete (but is a work in progress) and we already have on the ground projects in the works!

The UWC represents all of those who care about our wildlife. There are so, so many issues going on that it's really tough to get the scoop on the truth, in front of and behind the scenes: The UWC gives us all a venue to find those things out!

I am proud to be associated with the outstanding individuals who got this organization off the ground. We all look forward to representing your concerns, and will strive to keep alive and well the heritage that we all enjoy!

We are in the midst of a membership drive (It's free to join up!) so please visit our site and see what we are all about! http://www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

We appreciate your support and thank you all for taking the time and effort to become concerned advocates of our wildlife! See you on the MOUNTAIN!

Don't forget to make a donation to enter the free bear hunt in Idaho for 2! That's two guys two bears, courtesy of Wild Idaho Outfitters. Also a host of other prizes given away.


Perry Hanks
 
Great organization! I suggest everyone takes the time to atleast check it out, if you like what you see sign up!

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
Perry, I have a few questions about the new "Cooperative"

1) What will be the Co-op's stand on the 2012 deer management
(opt. 2) plan?

2)What does the Co-op recommend happen with L/E elk permits
for 2011,,,,Increase? , Decrease , leave unchanged,,?

3) what is the Co-ops stand on conservation permits,
Convention tags and SFW?

Over the last year or so I've enjoyed exchanging PM's and
discussion of topic we have had.
My concern here is During the last few months, all the
debate about opt 2 , SFW , and how many elk tags there
should be,,I'm not not sure if I agree with the Co-op
or not...................................Thanks.


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-11 AT 08:37PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-11 AT 08:35?PM (MST)

Goofy,

The UWC is a collaboration of sporstmen. To accomplish that goal we listen to our membership.

There was recently an open house in Price held by the DWR on deer management. We asked our membership what questions and comments they had for the dvision. Our members submitted questions and we asked the division on their behalf. We have the both the questions and the answers we got to those questions under our news section on the website in the story about the DWR open house.

There are several more DWR open houses that will be happening around the state. We will be at all of them but one asking the division questions our membership submits and passing along their suggestions.

A lot of sportsmen in Utah want to be heard but have little time to go to RAC meetings and Wildlife Board meetings. Life gets in the way. We speak in those venues for them. Along with giving back to wildlife through service projects and providing a ton of education for sportsmen that is our mission. And the information we post will be non-biased. We will post the answers the division gives us....we will give you studies that show both sides of an arguement. The idea is that you tell us what you want....not the other way around.

In the next few months we will be polling our members about the very issues you are asking about and we will sure to post the results. And rest assured we will be lobbying for those stances as well.

So if you want to be part of the voice be sure to join!!
 
Thanks Bullsnot...

Goofy,

Thanks for taking enough interest to ask your questions, although there may be some rhetoric and baiting in your post since you already know the answers for the most part. }>




1) What will be the Co-op's stand on the 2012 deer management

(opt. 2) plan?

We are still in the midst of gathering input from membership and several biologists, so a full picture would be inaccurate at this point. One thing is for certain, UWC absolutely opposes raising buck to doe ratios statewide. There are no biological upsides to raising the ratios and the loss of opportunity is great. Like most sportsmen, we want to see mule deer numbers grow in this state. If it is biologically sound to use unit management to do this, then we will support it. The last survey conducted showed that the majority of hunters just want to hunt. Reducing tags under the guise of growing more deer is false and goes against popular demand in regards to something that is strictly a social issue.

2)What does the Co-op recommend happen with L/E elk permits
for 2011,,,,Increase? , Decrease , leave unchanged,,?

Again, we are in the midst of gathering data and member input, but the loss of opportunity due to less record bulls being killed is not something we support. Surveys have showed that a majority of sportsmen want to hunt more frequently and are ok with smaller bulls, yet here we are, reducing opportunity again, because conservation tag prices stand to fall, someone complains about the governors tag etc.

3) what is the Co-ops stand on conservation permits,
Convention tags and SFW?

SFW has done and continues to do some great things in our state. Many of our members have been affiliated with SFW in the past and have become disenchanted with them due to the lack of transparency, catering to the wishes of their constituents with deep pockets and blatantly ignoring the common hunter.

As far as convention tags go, to my knowledge there has been no accounting for the money that is raised by these tags. We, like many sportsmen and women, would like to see where these funds are going and have many questions regarding the use of them.

Given a litte more time, membership growth and feedback, I am sure I can narrow responses to your questions a bit farther. You already know most of my personal thoughts on a couple of these subjects and it has been enjoyable trading ideas with you :) even though we don't see eye to eye on everything...

Again, thanks for your questions.
 
Stillhunterman,

You kind of shuffled around the topic of conservation permits. How long will it be until we see this organizations name next to conservation permit sales?
 
Thanks for your comment Tworay. The UWC will NOT be using public tags as a source of funding. We will rely on private donations, so I can happily say you won't be seen the UWC's logo or name anywhere associated with selling off conservation tags.
 
Not quite the cheering on this sight. Different world outside the bubble of conspiracy and wronged souls.
 
It really would be interesting to see the response if this was posted in a section with more traffic.

It was interesting to hear Doyle Moss on Tony Abbott's program yesterday talk about the age objectives on elk LE units. In a nutshell I got out of it that Doyle felt there should be a few top tier elk units managed for monster bulls and the rest should be managed to a specific bull:cow ratios.

In short with both deer and elk I like the fact that there are LE units and general units. There are even different types of LE units. These all created to cater to different types of hunters and different degrees of hunter desires. I support this mix and will continue to support that personally. I just don't want to see the state become all one or the other. A healthy mix is good. I don't want to see all LE elk units become "premium" or deer general units become LE units.

The UWC is a much needed voice. All types of hunters should be heard when it comes to game management.
 
Way to go guys my hats off to you! I can't tell you how happy I am to be a part of something that will stand up for my opportunity to hunt. I'm doing everything I can to tell and inform people about UWC. Thanks again guys!


P.S. RA!- RA!- RA!
 
Here's my biggest question:

Every single group that has been started in the past have been started for the same reason, and I'm sure the same reasons that you all are starting this one. To sum it up, youre sick and tired of the BS that goes on in the state and how our wildlife are managed, ect... Every group has started with a great goal and purpose, but have gone corrupt in the past, and look at where we are today. Greedy wildlife groups that claim to have our best interest at heart, but when they see the tags, and the money/power they change. How can you convince me that this one will be different? I'm really not trying to be negative, but look at the track record.
 
You're right bayside, sportsmen's/wildlife groups don't have a great track record for the reasons you mentioned. Given that track record, I'm not sure I can convince anyone of anything, I can simply tell you what our thought process was at the beginning and is now.

Once we decided to start the UWC, your question was the first one addressed by every man in the room. "How can we avoid becoming like all the other groups and not get caught up in the world of greed?" We talked about this exclusively for a long, long time during that meeting, and over the next few weeks tried to think of all eventualities, but of course that's almost impossible.

Several ideas came into being. We chose NOT to have a founder, someone who would take credit for the org, and possibly influence (unduly) certain things. We also limited the length of time our President and board members would preside. We decided that ANY financial decision could only be made by a UNANIMOUS vote of the board, not just a majority, hoping that would make it much more difficult for things to slip by. The UWC plans to make the word "transparency" one we can be proud of.

Paramount in our meetings was that we would NOT get involved in the selling off of conservation tags, it's a slippery slope to travel as you well know. Our website is a work in progress, and as of now it is very basic. We will be adding much more information about us, with a FAQ's page that will answer many questions.

My hope has always been that folks will see our intentions, see our sincerity and the things we have done to preclude the "money pit" syndrome, and then join the ride long enough to make a sound decision as to whether or not the UWC can really make a difference. It doesn't cost anything to join, your donation is just that, a choice you make to help if you want to,financially. We will have many on the ground projects for folks to contribute that way as well.

Thanks for being concerned enough to ask your questions!

Perry
 
Just joined! Thanks for your effort and time to try and make a difference for the future. As a father of four TIME is something hard to give up. Again, thank you for giving your time to try and improve things for the future generations to come.

"one generation plants the tree's the next enjoys the shade"

Hope our kids will be able to enjoy the outdoors in the future like alot of us have.
 
stillhunterman,

Just to verify I Believe that the study that you are referencing was taken in 2008 after the 2007 hunting season. If this is the study and I believe it is the correct study don't you think that you should get an up to date study? The perspective of a lot of hunters has changed in the last three years.

I have looked at your website and I do have a question for you. It appears that this organization was created after the option 2 mule deer plan was voted into play. From your website and what I was able to read it also appears that your number one item of business is to take down option 2. Is this correct?

My second question for you guys is what exactly does the United WIldlife Cooperation stand for? On your website you mention that hunting has become big business, and that the UWC is in place to check the agendas of groups. Will UWC be acting as the gatekeeper of the other organizations?

My last question is on your website you talk about how United Wildlife Cooperation represents the majority of hunters in Utah. Where did you pull this number from.

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.
 
I'm encouraged by the formation of this group, and especially by the stance against selling tags. I do have some questions, in no particular order of importance:

-What is your position on the Antelope Island hunts, and the development of similar hunts in similar situations?

-Will you be acquiring a lobbyist for contact with our Legislature, or will you be relying on a grassroots base?

-How exactly will you gather member input in order to come to the official UWC position on individual issues?

-What is the UWC's position on Stream Access in Utah?

-What is the UWC's intended role on fisheries issues in general?
____________________________

I hunt. I fish. I VOTE.

Get the F out of SFW
 
I dont understand how this group will accomplish anything without money. I know your intentions are good, but how will you help raise the deer herds from their current conditions of low numbers to higher numbers without the use of money? And without lowering the number of hunters? Yes opportunity is lost, but if the deer herds come back then opportunity will come back. Short time lose long term gain.

I think another group of sportsmen is counter productive, not everyone is going to agree on how wildlife is managed.

I for one will stay with SFW as long as they keep on doing projects. It is habitat that will help the deer herds not the voice of sportsmen, you do need money to accomplish the ultimate goal. Do I agree with all that SFW does, NO, would I agree with all that UWC will do, No.
 
cantkillathing

name one project SFW has done for the wasatch front!

Then ask yourself
Does the front have quality deer elk?
Does the front have any winter range?
Does the front have high predators?
Does the front allow for a long hunting season?
Does the front allow you to hunt rutting muleys/elk?

Now ask yourself why is SFW the largest organization in Utah to attack and destroy some of utahs best quality/opportunity. They killed ar301. Ar301 was one of the largest reasons the dutton was so good. It allowed the stock pilling of bulls without high harvest rates and no spike tags. It was a laxative in the bonus point butt plug because there was no waiting period. It allowed for a high number of tags to be issued as well. Now look at it! It has been totally wiped out by the rifle rut hunts and late hunts. You simple cannot manage for high quality high opertunity with the rifle....

SFW is gunning to kill the front mark my words. They have taken more hunting opportunity away from the average joe then wolves and Im not talking about just bow hunters. The continually manage for the high dollar hunter. They take and earn money from our tags at the expo and dont do anything with that money except line their own pocket books, lobby governors and wildlife board members. I am against any kind of organization that wont show where the money is going and just say trust me!!!

how come with all the hundreds of thousands of dollars the Henries has gotten the deer heard is still under objective? you would believe there would be ten times the deer numbers on that unit with all that habitat money thrown at it. To me its sad that only about 30 guys a year get to hunt a place like that. To me its sad this is the management goal sfw is pushing. Id personally sacrifice my hunting "range" to hunt an area every year then to manage this whole state for long range rifle rut hunts for the wealthy! Right now Utah is nothing more then a giant open range low fence hunt for the guy that can afford the tag...

Now im not saying im a member of uwc yet but they seem to have some pretty good views on what the general Utah hunter looks like. SFW does not represent the average Utah hunter imho.


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg
 
How are you suppose to improve the deer herds without doing something dramatic?

How do you improve Habitat without Money?

How do you please all hunters?

Can UWC tell me how they plan to improve the deer herds?
 
SW buckmaster
From reading your post it appears that the group should of been called ANTI-SFW Cooperative. To me this new group looks like it just looks like a group of people that are blowing a lot of smoke so that they can get what they want in UTAH and not what is best for the animals. How will are deer herd rebound if we don't make any changes?
 
Honer changes need to be made if you want to see older bucks running arround. I am fine with the way things are. I find 170 pluss bucks every year on general land. This is the main reason im against sfw and the tag grab. Their are many other reasons as well. My new signatere says one way it could be done.



To increase quality Utah needs to manage
for equal rights 33%/33%/33% for all
weapons.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/Us
er_files/4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg
 
SWbuckmaster
I beleive that you are correct. With option 2 you will see older deer but you will also see more deer. My friend don't think that you are the only one finding 170 plus deer on public ground. Lots of people are. I went to a meeting the other day and spoke with the DWR biologist. He told me that every unit that he manages was under herd size objective. Some were 25%- 30% below herd size objective. He told me that the units have the habitat to carry more deer but the herds have decreased in size the last 3 years in a row. Without cutting tags how do generate more deer.

Your 33%/33%/33% idea makes no sense to me. I treid to click on the link that you provided adn it appears it ahs been deleted or no longer exist.
 
The 33% is a way of shorten the range of the weapons. This allows more hunting opertunity and higher quality. There is a reason the front cranks out big bucks without sfw money. I say some where in the middle there is fair ground for all hunting groups.

To increase quality Utah needs to manage
for equal rights 33%/33%/33% for all
weapons.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/Us
er_files/4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg
 
Hooner,
I'm pretty sure that there is more than one biologist in the state. But lets shoot some holes in your other assumptions.
1. If cutting tags increases herds please tell me why the Henries isnt busting at the seams. That unit is managed the way you are suggesting. VERY few tags yet year after year the herd stays the same. They have dropped countless dollars in projects on that unit and still no difference. It is a place with HUGE deer but most will never have the oppertuinity to hunt.
2. Bucks dont have fawns. Last time I checked doe's were the only ones making baby deer. How will reducing buck tags fix this.
3. I love your asinine comment about saying that if you dont push for SFW and cutting tags you dont care about the good of the herds. WTF????? Please tell me how your plan will breath new life into the herds. Just because you are gulping the coolaid and others want a reasonable solution that isnt a knee jerk reaction you claim we dont care?
Running in to a crowded theater and yelling fire will clear everyone out of the theater. But if there is no fire you just have a bunch of pissed off people who dont want to come back. That seems to be the SFW plan.

Once again tell me how your plan will make more deer.....

respect my authorita
 
Again you will not find a group that you will 100% be satisfied with, but can you find me another group that has put millions into habitat restoration. Here in a few years the book cliffs will have a huntable buffalo herd, in which will create more opportunity to hunt that species.

I don't think that the option that passed for deer is the best option, but it was the best option available. There should have been better option proposed, but what was voted on was the only one that was going to somewhat help the deer herd.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-11 AT 06:46PM (MST)[p]CKT,

I respect your views on what they are doing. I just dont agree with them. Their goals are different than mine. Their goal isnt to give me more oppertunity. Their goal is to make more super animals so that they can sell expensive tags and make more money continuing the loop. My hunting enjoyment or lack there of means nothing to them.
I am more of an oppertuntiy guy. I want to be able to hunt and have a good time. I am happy being able to hunt the occasional 170in buck. I believe in responsible management of the herds and sustainable harvest of the animals. I want my kids to be able to hunt and learn to love it just as I do. I dont do a lot of out of state hunting so this is pretty much where I hang my hat.
The organization that you support wants me to feel lucky to hunt deer every 3-5 years and elk once in my life time and tell them that I owe it all to them. That they are the only ones doing something. I choose not to support an organization like that.
Being the only one doing something doesnt make it right or even the right thing to do. There are lots of opinions on this subject. Seems as thought they have earned their place with those controling the money. They are focusing on the elite nobility and their intrests. I really dont like how that's turned out in europe. Its a rich mans sport, let the rest eat cake.

Just my two cents

respect my authorita
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-11 AT 06:55PM (MST)[p]Cantkillathing,
Can you show me where they have invested millions into habitat? Can you show me where any of their money has gone? Can you show me where they have helped the average hunter? All I am asking for is a link, not trying to pick a fight.

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-11 AT 07:03PM (MST)[p]"I dont understand how this group will accomplish anything without money"

I am a perfect example of how you can do habitat projects with no Scam tag money nor Tag Grab money.

For years I repaired and cleaned out 9 Guzzlers on one of the few remaining BigHorn Ram units (Rocky) in 'tardville..

No battery powered tools, no Quad Queer access nothing but sweat and many blisters.

Me and my 4 llama packstring would go in and work the Guzzlers every year..... 3-4 days at a time......over the spring/summer months.

I didn't need to huff and puff about how great the big wallet 'donor/bidder' was or any of the pure self serving BS we read in the UTFNAWS rag or the Sportsmans Voice--(sic)--mag.

All species benefited from my 'habitat improvements' from the sheep to elk-deer-antelope-sagegrouse-----and so forth.

Pretty freaking simple to do and a few bucks out-ta-pocket was wonderful and enjoyable.

Those sunsets over Flaming Gorge----priceless.

Go figure-----

Robb
 
Adamsoa

1) The new deer option has nothing to do with the Henry mountains. You are talking about two completely different management plans. With this being said lets compare apples to apples. You jump on the Henry mountain band wagon you want to talk about knee jerk reaction. How do you think the henrys made it to where they are today? They shut the unit down completely. The deer herds bounced back to what they are today. Are they below population abjective? Possible but they are doing a lot better than when they started there.
2) Bucks do have fawns. They are a vital part of the reproduction process. Lets not pretend that a two year old buck is capable of breeding 25 does in time for the fawn to survive. That is like saying a 12 year old boy can get the job done like a grown man. Seroiusly think it thorough. Proven fact an older mature buck will breed more does earlier in the year than his younger brother.
3) I did not say anything about pushing for SFW. Read the post. You can take your time and make sure you read it right. Option two is not perfect but it is the best option of the three to grow the herds. Is it perfect? NO. However it is a lot better than just doing nothing and watching our herds decline year after year. It is a how hell of a lot better than doing nothing and hoping the herds get better.
4) You tell me how the plan is going to hurt the deer herd. If it is so obvious that it is such a bad plan what about it will hurt the deer? It will cut a couple of tags but this will help more deer survive. There will be less pressure and hopefully older deer to breed the does.
 
Lots of good questions and discussion here.

The UWC is not about about fixing deer herds, or any other species for that matter, with money. We formed to lobby for what we feel is right. We strive to represent the masses and to promote responsible and sustainable management practices. We are a voice for sportsmen.

We hope to have a positive impact on wildlife in Utah through education and through giving back to wildlife through volunteer projects. We are working with the BLM, the Forest Service, and the DWR to set up service projects.

Biologists tell us that focusing on the buck portion of the deer herd is not going to make populations rebound. Focusing on fawn survival rates is the key. So armed with that information why are we cutting more tags? We've been cutting tags for 20 years and nothing has gotten any better. The Henry's, as mentioned earlier, is under objective and this unit is quoted by many to be the pinnacle of Utah deer management. We want people to know that big antlers are not a measure of herd health. By making a herd healthy starting with fawns we grow more deer which means more bucks for everyone.

We hope that through this type of education we can encourage sportsmen to ask the right questions and then we will lobby for their wishes. We strive to speak for sportsmen and give them all the facts. Not one sided views. We support both the LE program and the general hunts for all types of hunters. We do not believe in opportunity to the point that it hurts our herds. We are not against trophy hunting. Just responsible and sustainable management for all types of hunters. (And fishermen)

If you have any more questions please check out the website and submit your questions and comments. It's very difficult for us to monitor all the forums. We answer every question we get via the site. Our stances come from our membership so join up and get involved. We are Utah sportsmen trying to make a difference.

Thanks
Kris Marble
Coumminications

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
It sounds like you plan on doing nothing for the deer herd, you just want to lobby more opportunity to kill and do nothing to help promote a more healthy deer herd, I am sorry there is not enough volunteers out there to do the amount of projects that need to happen.
 
I have been through the website and read everything that they have on the website. I find it interesting that they are using a hunter survey that is 3-4 years old. Why don't you guys use an updated survey?

Also the only thing that I found that you were supporting that would actually help the deer hers is that you had a link/page on your site that showed current projects that the DWR have planned to work on. What are you doing to help the deer herd. The projects that you have listed will be completed with our without your group. Didicated Hunters and other groups will complete the projects.

My biggest issue is that they constantly say that they are representing the majority of hunters. ? How do you figure? Are you going off of your survey that is 4 years old? You know that that survey was taken of a small portion of hunters in Utah it was not a survey taken of the Majoiry.
 
You say that UWC is for the masses but what masses are you refering too? 3 out of the 5 racs voted for the new management plan and the wildlife board agreed. This organazation is simply promoting there OWN agenda nothing more nothing less.

Bullsnot, you say you do not support tag reductions or increase to buck/doe ratios but then you say that you support current limited entry units that have high buck/doe ratios? Your either for or against it, if they dont make sense to you for your idea of a healthy herd then how can they make sense for some units and not others?

Also WTF do some of you keep comparing the henrys to the new management plan? The henrys is managed for 35+ buck/doe ratio. The new plan calls for 18 buck/doe ratio. All you people comparing the 2 are not only way off but have no idea what your talking about! Honestly if you guys think that are general season hunts are going turn into the henrys cause they only cut a few tags your freiken dreamin.

The UWC was formed to get its own way and try to get rid of opt 2 and then they slam the SFW for fighting for what they and they're members want? SAME DAM THING!!!
 
cantkillathing - We are a grassroots organization that was formed to speak for sportsmen. We did not form to raise millions of dollars to pump back into wildlife biology. We have not claimed that we are trying to save deer herds. We are simply trying to give sportsmen a voice in the current decision making process. We are focused on the social aspect of things. Having said that we also promote responsible and sustainable management for wildlife.

brutus - We are not claiming that we speak for the masses. We strive to speak for the masses. That is our end goal. We obviously have some work to do to get there.

The surveys that we reference are the most recent anyone has available. We are encouraging the DWR to do more surveys. We have made the suggestion that they have folks do surveys when they put in for the draw online. We are not a special interest group, we are a public interest group.

We are not anti SFW or any other org for that matter. SFW has done a lot of for Utah wildlife and they continue to do a lot. They do a lot for the wildlife from a biological perspective. They lobby for their membership as they should. The problem is they respresent a specific segment of hunters for the most part. That's good, they should have a voice but where is the balance that speaks for other types of hunters? That's us.

brutus - I'm not sure how else we can say it other than we support different types of hunters. We support LE units for trophy hunters and general units for opportunity guys. We don't want to see the whole state go LE or general. Those programs should match hunter demands meaning if 65% of hunters just want to get out and hunt then we need to make sure that 65% of the deer herd is managed in such a way. Roughly speaking of course. Raising buck to doe ratios on general units and cutting 13,000 tags deals a severe blow to the general hunting crowd. We just want to be clear that cutting tags in this instance will not help deer herds rebound. Since LE units are limited for trophy quality and we support that program it's perfectly appropriate to cut tags on those units if hunters want bigger bucks. If tag cuts are proposed to "grow more deer" on ANY unit then we'd be saying the same thing we are now.

It's true the RAC's voted 3-2 in favor of option 2. Going through the process many of us noticed that not many hunters participated in the process. None of the RAC meetings had more than 200 people in attendance. Some sent emails but not many when we consider there are close to 100k deer hunters in the state. Many hunters weren't even aware that there was proposed changes. That's why we formed to make sure the masses had a voice in these matters and to attend these types of meetings for them. Special interests were well respresented in the process, the average Joe was not.

We've got work to do but we do strive to speak for the masses. We poll and survey our members. Our goal is to give back and add something positive that was missing from the current process. Get involved guys so we can get your input.
 
Thank you for addressing my issues but,

I am an average joe hunter. I was involved in the process. The people that didnt attend a rac meeting or send emails to convey there feelings is just like not voting and then b!tchin about the results! I would love to join the UWC if you represented better quality hunting in UT wich is drasticaly in need of more aggressive and pro active management stategies.

Giving everyone a tag that wants one wont fix anything. If the UWC takes the stance that "Utah has cut tags for years and years and we still dont have a sustainable deer populations" then does the UWC think that deer populations would be better if Utah had never cut tags and we simply could buy tags over the counter.

All of Utah has been limited entry for quite some time now, all that breaking up those big regions will do is make it easier to properly cut and increase tags in units that are cronicaly below or above objective.

It just smells alot like fishon is pulling the strings.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-11 AT 04:12PM (MST)[p]Who is fishon?

When I refer to LE vs. general units I'm essentally talking about the buck to doe ratios and what those management strategies are trying to accomplish i.e. trophy or opportunity.

I personally don't have a major problem with breaking hunters down to unit management. It's the buck to doe ratios that give me heartache, especially if a unit goes below 18:100. When that happens it goes LE until it gets back to 25:100.

Thanks for the feedback brutus.
 
>Giving everyone a tag that wants
>one wont fix anything. If
>the UWC takes the stance
>that "Utah has cut tags
>for years and years and
>we still dont have a
>sustainable deer populations" then does
>the UWC think that deer
>populations would be better if
>Utah had never cut tags
>and we simply could buy
>tags over the counter.

We aren't saying give everyone a tag. We are saying let's not cut opportunity on general units UNLESS buck to doe ratios get under the 15:100 mark set in the 2008 mule deer plan on a given unit and focus on other ways to improve deer herds.
 
Bullsnot,

You want to give sportsman a voice, yet you don't really have a solidified mission. Do you plan to attend the RAC's with 10,000 different comments and opinions from hunters and read them? Will you take consolidated input from your surveys and convey that to the powers at be as the stance of UWC? Won't that upset those that don't agree with the stance and message you present, those that perhaps voted or felt differently than the result. Seems to me in the very near future you'll be getting bashed on this site just like all the other conservation groups do. Hope your all prepared for that..........
 
UWC,
tell me how you represent the majority of hunters in Utah? From what I have seen there are alot of smart, intelligent people with polar opposite views on Deer and elk management. I think it is impossible for one group to consistantly represent the majority of hunters in Utah. wouldn't it be more productive to clearly state your agenda and represent a minority that is passionate.

It appears to me, as others have already said, your real mission statment should say somthing about "we hate SFW so we are starting another group." I don't understand how this is productive????

Please tell me what PRODUCTIVE items you are trying to push. I will join any group I feel like is a positive influence on increasing hunting opportunity. I don't think we need any more glory hounds touting we represent all hunters, fighting against eachother.
 
No response or acknowledgement of my questions?

Another question..Will you be having meetings around the state? On a regular basis? How about local chapters?
____________________________

I hunt. I fish. I VOTE.

Get the F out of SFW
 
Drawback,

Sorry about missing your questions. Here are some answers.

We haven't tackled the Antelope Island issue as an organization yet. There are several things we need to tackle. We've only been up and running for 30 days or so now but we will be addressing these sorts of things..

We are not currently using a lobbyist. We hope to be effective as a grassroots organization.

For member input we use/or will use email polls, surveys, meetings, regional reps, charters, online suggestion box, etc. We will also use an advisory committee. AC members will be subject matter experts on things like big game, fish species, land use, non-consumptive and so on. We will use this committee to help educate us on issues and inform us of things we need to address.

We are currently polling our members and taking input on the stream access issue from advisory council members. A statement will be coming from us in the near future from us on this issue.

Our intended role on fisheries in general is that we promote responsible and sustainable management of our fisheries. We hope to lobby for for these things along with service projects. I apologize if I don't quite understand the question but we are currently diving into fishing issues. We are also polling members on the proposed Green River pipeline that has the potential to impact Flaming Gorge and the Green River fisheries.

On another note the UWC organized an public service project and on Saturday roughly 50 sportsmen picked up tons of garbage on the west side of Utah Lake. It was great to see so many concerned folks show up. Thanks to all those who showed up, it was a great event and I met some great people.

IMG-20110326-00025.jpg


IMG-20110326-00027.jpg


IMG-20110326-00033.jpg


IMG-20110326-00034.jpg


IMG-20110326-00024.jpg
 
>No response or acknowledgement of my
>questions?
>
>Another question..Will you be having meetings
>around the state? On a
>regular basis? How about local
>chapters?
>____________________________
>
>I hunt. I fish. I VOTE.
>
>
>Get the F out of SFW
>


I'm sorry I didn't get to your questions sooner drawback, but I think Bullsnot answered them below. As to your other question about meetings, YES, it is in our plans to have them in various places. We are in the process of setting up local chapters and I type. The UWC is a NEW organization, and as such we are in our infancy, still learning, still growing, still trying to get things set up. But we will. Appreciate your questions drawback.
 
Let me be the first to give you guys a big thanks for that project.

That's putting your money where your mouth is.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-11 AT 09:12PM (MST)[p]Good grief! I go away for a few days and look what happens! Things get interesting... :eek:

Gentlemen,

There have been some good and legitimate question here. Seems there is this issue about the UWC being anti SFW. I can understand why some of you would think so, after all, SFW has gone unchallenged in their efforts for quite some time. That's all fine and good for them and you. But understand, the UWC is NOT taking that position or role. Frankly, if the SFW wants to represent hunters who want 100% success rates on chasing big critters, good for them, have at it. And for you boys who want to support that issue, good for you as well. What the UWC will do however, is take a hard and strong stance against any SOCIAL issue of managing our big game herds for a minority of hunters to the detriment of all others, whatever organization or place that comes from.

The UWC supports wholeheartedly the North American Conservation Model. Within the confines of that model, it's easy to see that we want what I dare say all of you do, and that is to have a healthy habitat environment that can sustain a healthy wildlife population for generations to come. I would doubt that there are very many out there that don't care one way or another about giving our future generations (read children/grand children) the chance to enjoy what so many of us have and do.

How the hell can the UWC do anything without money? Honestly, we will need some money. Gas is kind of expensive now days! But every member of our Board voted unanimously we will NOT line the coffers with monies from conservation tags. We will get it in a variety of other ways, where we can sleep at night without a guilty conscience. Sure, it's gonna take time, we know that. But that sure as hell doesn't mean that a group of passionate hunters with a dedicated resolve and one voice can't stir the pot hard enough to not be heard, and believe me gentlemen, we are being heard.

Do we represent the masses? Nope, not right now. But understand this folks, there is a HUGE group of everyday hunters out there that have not had a venue heretofore to voice their concerns, but they do now, and that is who we are striving to represent. Do we want to push our constituents wishes upon those who don't agree with them? No. But what we do want is to help find a common ground, where there can be opportunity for those who wish to hunt mature animals every few or 40 years and for those who just want to hunt. Pretty simple really.

I keep hearing we were formed to kick the crap out of option 2. I can understand why some of you would say that, after all, it only addresses social issues and not biological one. But NO, we didn't come into being for that express reason. There are some issues with option 2 that we and our constituents do not agree with, and being social issues, we will push to have those concerns heard. It is important that everyone also understands that the UWC will never agree with ANY social issue that is detrimental to the overall health of our resource, that will be paramount in our efforts. If the wildlife loses sustainability and health, we all as hunters lose.

Oh, and brutus, this one is for you, specifically. You may be smelling "fishon", but I think that is just because some of Tony's thoughts are not that different from ours. Is he a member of our board of directors? No. Is he actively putting his ideas to us with any kind of influence? No. We are big boys and can actually think of things ourselves, so no worries.

Thanks for all the input gentlemen. Without thoughtful dialogue and questions, there can be any solutions.
 
That is pretty nice seeing somebody cleaning up that portion of western Utah lake. I used to shoot out there on a very regular basis. It didn't take long until too many people refused to pick up their trash on the way out and I felt it disturbing to continue to shoot in a garbage dump. I now travel a different direction altogether on a compass to shoot. Not as many trash leaving arseholes where I shoot now.
Kudos to anyone that can organize a police detail in an area such as that. Let's see how long it takes to turn that into a dump again.
Good job on the people that worked that site!!!!!!
 
The clean up you guys did was needed. I cant believe it is socially expectable to take your trash out and shoot it up. I have driven by that area hundreds of times in my life and have always thought it should be illegal to actually shoot there because of the mess. The lessons you taught your kids that day are important ones. I think they will go a long way and hopefully they will teach their kids that leaving an area the way you found it is the only way to go.

I actually wish fisherman had to do some kind of clean up or dedicated hours like this when they get there fishing license. I absolutely cant stand going to the river to fish with my own kids and seeing diapers, beer bottles ect all over the place.

good job guys!

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_
photos/8471avatar_2528.jpg
 
No. That's putting blood sweat and tears where your mouth is. That's one thing that has always bothered me about conservation groups. Most members are satisfied with giving their $35-$50 donation and calling that good and never once stepping foot on the range we are trying to "conserve". Pictures like that are what it's all about. Things like Robb states are what it should be all about. If we are to be stewards of wildlife then it shouldn't be about the money. It should be about giving back to a sport that we freely take from every fall. Great job guys.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Its great to see you guys out doing something. Too many people seem to take the out doors and being able to just go shoot for granted. More and more places are now off limits because too many uncaring people think the world is their dump and treat it that way.
Projects like this say a lot about your organization and what you stand for.

Thank you



respect my authorita
 
Stillhunterman,

Your last post was close to the answer I was looking for. I can only speak for me personally. I look to be active in groups with clear direction. I want to align myself with organizations that are actively seaking to promote their viewpoint and don't get sidtracked trying to drag others down and/or please the masses. You will never be able to line up 100% with any peron or organization on all ideas. Any organiztion that will clearly state their objectives, if I agree with 80-90% I think we line up pretty good and I will support them. I Don't support groups that bad mouth other groups I think we are in the same fight, If you disagree mount an offensive strike to implement change, don't just destroy what others have worked for without replacing it with somthing better.

Clearly stated goals that will upset some people are much better than trying to incorporate everybody into a pissing contest, and dragging others down. We all win when mulitiple people are bringing ideas forward and we get to pick the best.

The work you did this past weekend is commendable. That for me shows me what kind of a group you've got. Lets just try to stay away from dragging the other guy down.
 
stillhunterman,
you keep bringing up the social aspect of hunting, and healthy deer herds, still have not stated how the group plans on making a better deer herd, your in it to bring back thousands of deer tags, but what are you doing to help the deer herd? Lets hear how you plan on creating a better more sustainable deer herd so that we can insure the future of hunting for our kids, and grandkids?
 
cantkillathing,

First off, let me clarify something you have said a couple of times: the UWC is not "in it" to bring back thousands of tags. However, we are extremely concerned about losing more tags which equates to real live people, hunters, like the 13000+ that will be lost in the 2012 season. They are being taken away from all of us to accomplish what you said in an earlier post: "doing something drastic". That decision wasn't based on ANY biological concern for the herd, it was based on the social issue of cutting out more hunters, period. That's part of the "social" issues I am talking about.

There is no "magic bullet" that can be applied to our herds that will make a "drastic" improvement, NONE. And as long as the Wildlife Board continues down the line of trying to "fix" the problems with our wildlife by simply limiting and controlling hunters, we will never have what we all want, sustainable healthy herds.

The solutions we are all looking for will never come to fruition until the "problems" are addressed. Identifying those problems and working toward meaningful solutions is something that takes time, money, and a solidified effort by those who are in charge of our wildlife. Even LULU had, I believe, something like a 15 point plan to help the herds, and I'm sure he will be the first to admit he isn't a biologist by any stretch of the imagination. But some of his ideas were worthy of consideration. Things will NOT get better if all our wildlife leaders can do is fix things by getting rid of more hunters.

What the UWC will do to the best of our ability, is try to insure that the real problems our wildlife and environment are facing are not put on the back burner to pacify the vocal minority pushing for agendas that do NOTHING for the health of our wildlife or the majority of hunters.

How can that be accomplished you ask? There are a few ways. Getting the real information out to the general hunting public is one: how can we as sportsman make informed decisions regarding our wildlife if we are fed half baked notions that have absolutely no sound data to substantiate them? We can't. We need to make sure that the Wildlife Board listens to sound biological and environmental advice, and not blow it off just to "do SOMETHING now", even if it has no real benefit to our herds. There has to be accountability within our states Management hierarchy. We want to bring that accountability to the table, loud and clear.

We will listen to what the UDWR biologists have to say, and we will make sure it is verified by other sources if need be, and makes sure the WB, politicians, and hunters know that information. Helping to empower a hamstrung UDWR to use their resources and funds on a statewide basis instead of blowing their load on a couple of high profile LE units and pushing to stick with management plans as well as wasting less time on where to place hunters, (opposed to spending time on proactively looking for solutions and enrolling the public to donate time and money) is probably a good place to start for an organization that wants to make a difference and assist with struggling mule deer numbers.
 
your a true politician, beat around the question and give no real answers. If you want to inform people of the real problems of why our deer herds are declining then enlighten us, we want to hear how you plan on as a group to improve the deer herd. Give us a outline of how you plan on doing this.
 
cantkillathing, what are your suggestions to a healthier herd? I don't think I heard one time anything about trying to make the herd more healthy. Sounds to me like you want to pick a fight with this organization and thats OK. If you want them to voice your concerns, maybe you should offer some solutions. I am not a member, and it does not seem that you want to be either, but what good comes from trying to belittle someone? What are your suggestions and concerns? Maybe if you give an opinion that is worth a sheeit rather than just beach and whine, maybe your concerns , suggestions, and opinions will be taken into account of what these people are trying to do. Who are you anyway? Are you part of Don Peay's org and just trying to shovel your crap in a hole that isn't there?
Offer up your suggestions and see if they are really who they say they are instead of whining, eh??
Like my godmom said when I was a kid, If you don't have something constructive to say, STFU! }>
 
Wow, never been called the "P" word before ;-)

How about we start with these, I'm sure you are familiar with the 7 sisters:

?Wildlife as Public Trust Resources
?Elimination of Markets for Game
?Allocation of Wildlife by Law
?Wildlife Should Only be Killed for a Legitimate Purpose
?Wildlife Are Considered an International Resource
?Science is the Proper Tool for Discharge of Wildlife Policy
?Democracy of Hunting

Have a great night ckat
 
Thanks for the Info Stillhunterman.

I will look into your group more when you update your information and gather your data and surveys. Still not ready to join off of your information given.
 

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