Utah’s FINALLY feeling the heat.

2lumpy

2lumpy

Long Time Member
Messages
8,004

Hallelujah​

After 40 years, Utah may finally be getting serious about its declining mule deer population.

Nothing like waiting until they have dang near destroyed the entire lifestyle. It may actually be too late already. A couple of back to back harsh winter, from where we are at now might be the final bell toll for our mule deer, I sincerely hope not.

Regardless, if they are finally going to try some things, in spite of my animosity and frustration with the agency, I wish them well and hope they learn things that will grow our mule deer population. I wish they would add one more unit with one more cause and effect treatment. Something that has never been tried and studied. That would be closing a large, previously productive unit, such as the Manti, Fish Lake, Monroe, Pahvant or one of the others, and keep it closed for 5 years. Aggressively kill and pressure the predator population throughout the five year period, ………study, count and record not only the increase in the buck population but also determine why the female population explodes as well, and why it does. I say a large perviously productive unit because in the past only smaller, desert non-productive units with limited mule deer habitat, have been closed for any period of time. How would a productive unit respond? These previously high productive units are where the majority of our lost numbers have come from and if there is ever a significant repopulation, it’s these large, highly productive units that need the prescription treatment. Or it seems so to me.

I’ll be watching from the shallows….. hoping for the best.

www.ksl.com

Utah seeks to implement, study deer hunt changes in 2024 as deer populations struggle

Utah wildlife officials want to test and study hunting changes in five units next year, to see if the changes can improve deer populations.
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com
 
elkantlers said:
not shooting bucks for 5 years is not going to help Doe numbers. It will actually hurt them since they have many more mouths to compete with. There is only so many blades of grass. Every one eaten by an extra buck is one the does don't have to eat.
Click to expand...
While this is true... who determines how many deer are appropriate for a given area, and can they be trusted to give accurate data about it.? We get the population objectives, but is that based solely on wildlife carrying capacity for the unit.? Or something else?

For example, wouldn't cattle factor into carrying capacity for wildlife.? Where can we see how many cattle are grazing in our deer/elk units.?

Not rhetorical questions, genuine curiosity...
 
The
BrowningRage said:
While this is true... who determines how many deer are appropriate for a given area, and can they be trusted to give accurate data about it.? We get the population objectives, but is that based solely on wildlife carrying capacity for the unit.? Or something else?

For example, wouldn't cattle factor into carrying capacity for wildlife.? Where can we see how many cattle are grazing in our deer/elk units.?

Not rhetorical questions, genuine curiosity...
Click to expand...
The USFS and the BLM regional offices will give you a current and historic list of the AUM’s on every one of their properties. It helps if you call and speak to the local Supervisor and let them know what you want, so they can have it photo copied and ready for you, when you come to pick it up. In my experience, they sometimes need to dig it out of their archives and it can take a while. It’s not all that common than anyone comes asking for it.
 
Every national forest has the grazing info on their web site. I don't believe it is any harder to find for BLM.
For example:
www.fs.usda.gov

Dixie National Forest - Resource Management

Dixie National Forest - Resource Management
www.fs.usda.gov

And yes federal land being mostly multiple use livestock would be in the equation. But cattle eating grass is actually a good thing for deer. Maybe not so much for elk.
 
What came first....the chicken or the egg? Killing does will leave more feed for the bucks.....killing does who GIVE BIRTH TO MORE BUCKS is the wrong thing to do. I don't think there is an answer to proper management when trying to rebuild a herd. What has worked in other states? Anyone? Bueller? Is there a correct answer?

Also, its a gov't agency doing the counting so who actually knows if the figures are accurate or make believe....like climate change.
 
JPickett said:
are there any doe hunts?

yes = ok your wasting your time
no = good start now move on to whats next

its never going to be fixed boys. some dumb ass is always gong to be like "a 9 year old should get to shoot a doe!!"

good luck, next deer herd to go away will be up here
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It can be fixed but only is someone powerful and influential enough takes it over. It was done once before, by a very rich man with very rich friends and great political power.

We don’t need , nor should be plan to wait for another Roosevelt to step up because a lesser group can do it, if they want to. How close did we come to losing all the elk, bison, antelope, whitetail deer, ducks, geese, swans, etc before Roosevelt and his band of rich friends step in to save North American wildlife. We don’t have to go down that road again, if we don’t want to. Nor do we have to. Glad somebody in the agency is finally rubbing the sand out of their eyes.
 
elkantlers said:
not shooting bucks for 5 years is not going to help Doe numbers. It will actually hurt them since they have many more mouths to compete with. There is only so many blades of grass. Every one eaten by an extra buck is one the does don't have to eat.
Click to expand...
The doe to buck ratio could stand to be higher, see Colorado in the early 2000s, and none of these units are close to carrying capacity and starving other deer out. wildlife managers would still retain the ability to adjust permit allocations for both sexes on a year by year basis.
This is an encouraging step in the right direction.
 
AZGuy said:
The doe to buck ratio could stand to be higher, see Colorado in the early 2000s, and none of these units are close to carrying capacity and starving other deer out. wildlife managers would still retain the ability to adjust permit allocations for both sexes on a year by year basis.
This is an encouraging step in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Agreed, Just not on a general unit.
 
I Don't Tell You You're Wrong Very Often Lumpy!

But You Made A TYPO!

The 4 Needs To Be Replaced With A 5!:D

2lumpy said:

Hallelujah​

After 40 years, Utah may finally be getting serious about its declining mule deer population.

Nothing like waiting until they have dang near destroyed the entire lifestyle. It may actually be too late already. A couple of back to back harsh winter, from where we are at now might be the final bell toll for our mule deer, I sincerely hope not.

Regardless, if they are finally going to try some things, in spite of my animosity and frustration with the agency, I wish them well and hope they learn things that will grow our mule deer population. I wish they would add one more unit with one more cause and effect treatment. Something that has never been tried and studied. That would be closing a large, previously productive unit, such as the Manti, Fish Lake, Monroe, Pahvant or one of the others, and keep it closed for 5 years. Aggressively kill and pressure the predator population throughout the five year period, ………study, count and record not only the increase in the buck population but also determine why the female population explodes as well, and why it does. I say a large perviously productive unit because in the past only smaller, desert non-productive units with limited mule deer habitat, have been closed for any period of time. How would a productive unit respond? These previously high productive units are where the majority of our lost numbers have come from and if there is ever a significant repopulation, it’s these large, highly productive units that need the prescription treatment. Or it seems so to me.

I’ll be watching from the shallows….. hoping for the best.

www.ksl.com

Utah seeks to implement, study deer hunt changes in 2024 as deer populations struggle

Utah wildlife officials want to test and study hunting changes in five units next year, to see if the changes can improve deer populations.
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com
Click to expand...
 
Horsecorn said:
Ya I like the Yankees too. Please tell me though, where at in utah is there so Many deer that they have to fight for the feed. I can’t think of one place where they eat their self out of house and home. We are a long ways from that
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All we've talked about this year is the thousands of deer and elk that Starved to death last winter.

There's plenty of food, until there's not.
 
You get so many hunters pulling in different direction it is easier for the DWR and WB to do nothing. It is a few decades late, but a start. To late for me because of age, but hopefully my Grandkids will see some benefits from it. Go for it!!!
 
I Agree With You cb!

But Most Are GREEDY & Don't Look In To The Future Like That!

cannonball said:
You get so many hunters pulling in different direction it is easier for the DWR and WB to do nothing. It is a few decades late, but a start. To late for me because of age, but hopefully my Grandkids will see some benefits from it. Go for it!!!
Click to expand...
 
2lumpy said:

Hallelujah​

After 40 years, Utah may finally be getting serious about its declining mule deer population.

Nothing like waiting until they have dang near destroyed the entire lifestyle. It may actually be too late already. A couple of back to back harsh winter, from where we are at now might be the final bell toll for our mule deer, I sincerely hope not.

Regardless, if they are finally going to try some things, in spite of my animosity and frustration with the agency, I wish them well and hope they learn things that will grow our mule deer population. I wish they would add one more unit with one more cause and effect treatment. Something that has never been tried and studied. That would be closing a large, previously productive unit, such as the Manti, Fish Lake, Monroe, Pahvant or one of the others, and keep it closed for 5 years. Aggressively kill and pressure the predator population throughout the five year period, ………study, count and record not only the increase in the buck population but also determine why the female population explodes as well, and why it does. I say a large perviously productive unit because in the past only smaller, desert non-productive units with limited mule deer habitat, have been closed for any period of time. How would a productive unit respond? These previously high productive units are where the majority of our lost numbers have come from and if there is ever a significant repopulation, it’s these large, highly productive units that need the prescription treatment. Or it seems so to me.

I’ll be watching from the shallows….. hoping for the best.

www.ksl.com

Utah seeks to implement, study deer hunt changes in 2024 as deer populations struggle

Utah wildlife officials want to test and study hunting changes in five units next year, to see if the changes can improve deer populations.
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com
Click to expand...


Great plan. Here's a better idea. Not.


I'll save tge 5 years and give you the results.

Let's take the Manti.


There will of course be some bigger bucks around.


Ephraim, Manti, Mt Pleasant, Fairview will continue expanding into winter range.

Sanpete will further push ATV/Sxs riding to replace lost revenue from hunters.

More beetlekill will fall, not be allowed to be taken, furthering vast dead zones over the mtn.

6&89 will continue to get busier taking more deer.

All the Manti guys will create more pressure elsewhere

Western Wildlife will continue to sue to stop cat killing

But, for a year, there will be some good bucks on the Manti, which will take a year or so to kill off, and we will be right back to where we were before.


It's amazing to me that you have watched non stop tag cuts for 30 years, and REFUSE to look at the result, and just keep chirping for more and more.
 
BrowningRage said:
While this is true... who determines how many deer are appropriate for a given area, and can they be trusted to give accurate data about it.? We get the population objectives, but is that based solely on wildlife carrying capacity for the unit.? Or something else?

For example, wouldn't cattle factor into carrying capacity for wildlife.? Where can we see how many cattle are grazing in our deer/elk units.?

Not rhetorical questions, genuine curiosity...
Click to expand...

I'm guessing BLM/FS since ranchers pay AUM
 
So, does this FINALLY mean we have agreed, after 31 years, that $fw DID NOT save the mule deer, DID NOT create the Serengeti of the West, and their assinine plan of cut tags and set up more trophy hunting, not only FAILED, but FAILED MISERABLY.

2 decades late, but thank God we are finally breaking away from that model

Hopefully we can put a stake in the "just cut some more tags" morons and try some creative approaches that can both create more does, and allow for older class of bucks to be around more.
 
Horsecorn said:
Ya I like the Yankees too. Please tell me though, where at in utah is there so Many deer that they have to fight for the feed. I can’t think of one place where they eat their self out of house and home. We are a long ways from that
Click to expand...

You live near the Book Cliffs, I believe? How has that range been the last 5 years for all species? It may not be the deer only eating themselves out of house and home, but the Books are being eaten out of house and home. Every species suffers when this happens.

Let’s not bury our heads in the sand and pretend our habitat is in great shape. Especially in an area like the Books out in your neck of the woods.
 
elkantlers said:
not shooting bucks for 5 years is not going to help Doe numbers. It will actually hurt them since they have many more mouths to compete with. There is only so many blades of grass. Every one eaten by an extra buck is one the does don't have to eat.
Click to expand...
uh...lol....if deer were anywhere near carrying capacity.....they wouldn't be doing this exercise......
 
Zero doe hunts, control the predators, & pray Mother Nature cooperates.
Why only southern units in the plan? I’m all for it, but what about some of these northern units. They took a beating last winter. Some of these northern units could be incredible. I hope they don’t test and salvage the southern units, only to make up for it on the back end by further destroying the northern units.
There is more than one unit in the state right now that could be incredible if they would ease off the bucks for a few. Exceptional habitat, summer and winter range. Deer numbers aren’t in the toilet. I believe with some help, a few units could rival any unit in the state. Including Henry’s, Oaks, etc.
That said… Utah does a pretty good job compared to just about every other state in the west. Our human population is large compared to most.
Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Colorado management is garbage compared to Utah.
Wyoming has no human population, they’re management sucks.
Idaho’s management is a disgrace. Some general units in that state need to be completely shut down.
Colorado, has amplified wrecking a deer herd faster than any state in the west. I wouldn’t even call the management in Colorado wildlife managers.
Utah’s management is far from perfect, but they are at least making a effort…
 
Homer said:
uh...lol....if deer were anywhere near carrying capacity.....they wouldn't be doing this exercise......
Click to expand...
You're correct, deer aren't. But when you add in elk and cattle and sheep and horses and everything else, you are getting there. There might be plenty of food in an area but if there is a herd of elk hanging out the deer leave. Deer are wimps when it comes to standing their ground. They are the first ones to raise the white flag and move on, and not to greener pastures usually.
So, the smart thing to do is add more bucks, that I'm pretty sure don't have fawns, to compete with the doe deer that do have fawns?

APR's don't help create more doe deer, That's a fact. All it does is make mediocre hunters feel good because they are seeing a few more bucks.
 
Keystone said:
Great plan. Here's a better idea. Not.


I'll save tge 5 years and give you the results.

Let's take the Manti.


There will of course be some bigger bucks around.


Ephraim, Manti, Mt Pleasant, Fairview will continue expanding into winter range.

Sanpete will further push ATV/Sxs riding to replace lost revenue from hunters.

More beetlekill will fall, not be allowed to be taken, furthering vast dead zones over the mtn.

6&89 will continue to get busier taking more deer.

All the Manti guys will create more pressure elsewhere

Western Wildlife will continue to sue to stop cat killing

But, for a year, there will be some good bucks on the Manti, which will take a year or so to kill off, and we will be right back to where we were before.


It's amazing to me that you have watched non stop tag cuts for 30 years, and REFUSE to look at the result, and just keep chirping for more and more.
Click to expand...
“Chirping” is a great way to describe it.

Here’s how it’s gone.

Guys like me chirp, they ignore it, the herd numbers decline. The public roars and they cut tags…… too late, 10% lose of the base population.

Five years later……. Guys like me chirp, they ignore it, deer herd declines another 10%. The public roars, they cut tags again. Again, too late…….. deer already dead. Population down over 20% now. (Over 20% because you started this 5 year period down 10% already, see how it compounds.)

Five years later (15 years into it now)……. Guys like me chirp, they ignore it, deer herd declines another 10%. The public roars, they cut tags again. Again, too late…….. deer already dead. Population down over 30% now. (Over 30% because you started this 5 year period down 20% already, see how it compounds.)

Five years later (20 years into it now)……. Guys like me chirp, they ignore it, deer herd declines another 10%. The public roars, they cut tags again. Again too late…….. deer already dead. Population down over 40% now. (Over 40% because you started this 5 year period down 30% already, see how it compounds.)

Five years later (25 years into it now)……. Guys like me chirp, they ignore it, deer herd declines another 10%. The public roars, they cut tags again. Again too late…….. deer already dead. Population down over 50% now. (Over 50% because you started this 5 year period down 40% already, see how it compounds.)

Five years later (30 years into it now)……. Guys like me chirp, they ignore it, deer herd declines another 10%. The public roars, they cut tags again. Again, too late…….. deer already dead. Population down over 60% now. (Over 60% because you started this 5 year period down 50% already, see how it compounds.)

When I say “chirp” I mean “chirp” at RAC and Wildlife Board Meetings, in meetings with Legislators and County Commissioners and on appointed to wildlife and habitat committees. I don’t mean “chirping” on internet forms.

I haven’t chirped in a RAC and Wildlife Board Meetings, in a meeting with Legislators or County Commissioners or to a wildlife and habitat committee, since 2013/14.

If you are calling my posts on MM chirping, you wouldn’t know chirping from pissing into the wind.

Now, why do you suppose I would have been guilty of continually “chirping”, for nearly 45 years?

Why do you suppose I stopped “chirping” in 2013-2014.
 
It's always funny when a dude assumes he's tge only swinging dick that's ever talked to a committee or board. While I don't doubt your history, you are not alone. You being wrong with your cure is the "why".

I've seen both you and your sons wild azz estimations on deer numbers to start with, so starting g from such a asinine #, it's not hard to figure out why you nay have been regarded as a crank to start with.

I'm assuming you can do math, but deer numbers going into 22' were roughly where they were in 92' So your math doesn't work when applied to a 30 year period starting from tge major tag cuts we saw then.

An in reality, when combined with how drastically the landscape changed in 45 years, the dwr has actually done a pretty good job.

Yeah, I know, they are greedy, lazy, or stupid, but managing deer 2023 vs 1993 aren't even close.

A hilarious to read white beards talk about 45 years ago "management", or how tge old timers did it.

They simply counted dead deer on a game check, let the grazers wage war on predators. The lack of humans and cars simply made it work.
 
The elk running off the deer holds no weight where I hunt. Tons of bitter brush and water. No Elk at all in this area. Also no deer. Not because elk have run them off. Like I said before the Buffett is there but no deer to enjoy it. It is a numbers problem and has been declining for years. Finally to the point that it can’t be denied. I sure hope some restrictions work. An added one should be complete shut down to compare
 
Good luck man. You'll never get an actual thought, strategy, plan, anything.

He and Muley will beat you to death about with their bonafide, but their one and only idea is museum management. It's no different than the enviros "saving" the land, by closing off access. To save hunting, you need to not hunt.

So, now it's just become the nagging wife, everyone was dumb, everyone greedy, everyone selfish, yada, yada, yada.
 
southernutahhunter said:
The elk running off the deer holds no weight where I hunt. Tons of bitter brush and water. No Elk at all in this area. Also no deer. Not because elk have run them off. Like I said before the Buffett is there but no deer to enjoy it. It is a numbers problem and has been declining for years. Finally to the point that it can’t be denied. I sure hope some restrictions work. An added one should be complete shut down to compare
Click to expand...


You first
 
Vanilla said:
I wish the DWR would do a survey and ask Utah hunters “would you agree to a single hunting unit in this state to be completely shut down for 2 years?”

Anyone answering yes is prohibited from applying for or obtaining big game tags for 5 years.

We’ll give this people what they want…no hunting.
Click to expand...


Come on man. The biggest tag cutting/closure fans in here, are busy hunting as we speak.

I've been a fan of you either put in LE, or GS, but can't do both. But I know damn well, not a single tag cutter will back up their mouth. It's the other guy who is the problem, ALWAYS
 
Keystone said:
It's always funny when a dude assumes he's tge only swinging dick that's ever talked to a committee or board. While I don't doubt your history, you are not alone. You being wrong with your cure is the "why".

I've seen both you and your sons wild azz estimations on deer numbers to start with, so starting g from such a asinine #, it's not hard to figure out why you nay have been regarded as a crank to start with.

I'm assuming you can do math, but deer numbers going into 22' were roughly where they were in 92' So your math doesn't work when applied to a 30 year period starting from tge major tag cuts we saw then.

An in reality, when combined with how drastically the landscape changed in 45 years, the dwr has actually done a pretty good job.

Yeah, I know, they are greedy, lazy, or stupid, but managing deer 2023 vs 1993 aren't even close.

A hilarious to read white beards talk about 45 years ago "management", or how tge old timers did it.

They simply counted dead deer on a game check, let the grazers wage war on predators. The lack of humans and cars simply made it work.
Click to expand...
Ha ha. Jokes on you. Why was I accurate, when I said “guys like me”. Plural swingers, get it. “Chirpers”, meaning we had no influence. Public “roaring”, includes the public at large, include State and local political representations/law makers.

The number of deer estimates at its peak in the early 1980’s is based on the agency data, not mine or anyone elses. Re-read that……. I said, based on the States data.

My cure failed? Sh!t on the management practices of 50-60 years ago all you want, the rural units demographics haven’t changed much at all but the current population of mule deer isn’t anywhere near the population it was 45 years ago. The agency has been in charge the entire 45 years, not the chirper. Remember it was you that pointed it out by your orginal use of the term. The agency controls the out comes. Sorry, white beards or not, truth is truth, facts are fact. The old timers grew mule deer, you……. not so much and still declining.

Your problem to chirp or roar about now, we tried and failed. All the best, young feller.
 
hossblur said:
I've been a fan of you either put in LE, or GS, but can't do both. But I know damn well, not a single tag cutter will back up their mouth. It's the other guy who is the problem, ALWAYS
Click to expand...

I used to not like this idea, but I think I am more and more in favor of it now. Here is how I propose we handle

One point system. No preference points, everything is in the bonus point system now. Pick 9 or so deer units LL holders can’t obtain with their LL, and move on.

Elk the same. One pool, no general season or LE. General season bulls, spike only, LE units…even antlerless tags go into same pool.

Pronghorn the same. All speedgoat tags in one pool.

You may get two tags per year if you’ve got the points to do it, but not all 3. You may obtain points for two species per year, but not all 3.

If you want to trophy hunt, get in line and have at it! If you want to just get a tag and not chase big animals and maybe only even cow elk, this plan is for you.

Something for everyone. Everyone has a unit that fits their desired management strategies and hunting desires. Nobody can complain about it. It works for everyone.

I used to absolutely hate talk like this, but the BS has beaten into submission. Let’s just get on with it and quit screwing with everything else. Let those tag cutting trophy hunters have their handful of units and let the opportunists have theirs. No more mixing needed.
 
Vanilla said:
You live near the Book Cliffs, I believe? How has that range been the last 5 years for all species? It may not be the deer only eating themselves out of house and home, but the Books are being eaten out of house and home. Every species suffers when this happens.

Let’s not bury our heads in the sand and pretend our habitat is in great shape. Especially in an area like the Books out in your neck of the woods.
Click to expand...
I don’t know where you’re looking out there but where I go down there there is plenty feed. Don’t accuse me of burying my head in the sand. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Years ago down there when there were 5 times the animals there is now, there was plenty of feed. Now you’re telling me all of a sudden there isn’t enough feed. Put your flat brim back on and go take a look.
 
You know nilla. With your logic maybe you ought to wish for more bucks cause then the coyotes and lions can eat some of them and save the does. What do ya think
 
Horsecorn said:
I don’t know where you’re looking out there but where I go down there there is plenty feed. Don’t accuse me of burying my head in the sand. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Years ago down there when there were 5 times the animals there is now, there was plenty of feed. Now you’re telling me all of a sudden there isn’t enough feed. Put your flat brim back on and go take a look.
Click to expand...
So why isn't there doe deer as far as the eye can see?
 
Vanilla said:
If you want to trophy hunt, get in line and have at it! If you want to just get a tag and not chase big animals and maybe only even cow elk, this plan is for you.

Something for everyone. Everyone has a unit that fits their desired management strategies and hunting desires. Nobody can complain about it. It works for everyone.

I used to absolutely hate talk like this, but the BS has beaten into submission. Let’s just get on with it and quit screwing with everything else. Let those tag cutting trophy hunters have their handful of units and let the opportunists have theirs. No more mixing needed.
Click to expand...
I’m not opposed to your specific suggestions but I’m going to focus my comments on your big picture.

This was recommended 10 years ago for mule deer, not by me but by a guy that’s vision is far better than mine. My guess is, you hated it then because of who recommended it but not so much because of the concept. Just a guess, I’m no mind reader.

It takes long term vision to see what’s happening and what the consequences will likely be. You’ve finally had the BS pile up so deep… you now see the forest for the trees.

My I say, again, Hallelujah, not only is the agency seemingly waking up, maybe some others are too. Thank you, sincerely. There may still be hope.

There is one aspect in the your recommendation that will come up, during a serious discussion, should you pursue it further, which you should. That aspect is the duration of the choice one makes.

So a 14 year old wants to hunt and he needs to have some success, in order to developer a love for the lifestyle. So if he chooses a non-trophy, more opportunity unit, when he is young and moldable, after 5 or 10 or 15 years etc. can he ever switch to a trophy unit? Or would you want them locked in for life. Seems maturity might alter a child’s future interest. I love the concept but I am not sure a punishment approach needs to be required to achieve the desire outcome. I think a path to move back and forth between the trophy vs opportunity units, with a reasonable number of years commitment to one or the other could be implemented. I can even see older hunters who chose to take less opportunity, so they can trophy hunt but when their grand children come of age, move over to opportunity units to take and teach them.

5 or 10 year commitment seems reasonable. 15 years might not work as well, IMO.

You should push your recommendation up the line and see if gets legs. It would change a lot of things, in a positive way.
 
I'll Just Take A Wild Ass Guess Or Two!

They Don't Get POUNDED From August trough Dec-Jan Like They Do On The BLM/FORREST Side?

There Probably Isn't A SPIKE/COW Slaughter Like There Is On The BLM Side?

And They Probably Ain't Hunted To Death Like They Are On The BLM Side?



Horsecorn said:
Waiting for an answer boys. Don’t dodge this one.
Click to expand...
 
id sure love to see a bigger investment in migration corridors with some road crossing's. I think road kill is a huge problem and is a controllable.

It was nice they built one in parleys, but we should have those all over the place.

It was frustrating to see some of these deer up north survive a horrible winter just to get killed by a car.
 
Lumpy, I don’t even know who proposed this 10 years ago, so I can say your guess is incorrect.

As for what unit one applies for, nobody needs to be locked in. Just like now, apply for whatever unit you want. Heck, even change specifies if you’d like.

I still don’t love this idea, but I’m starting to believe it is the only way to keep trophy hunters form completely destroying Utah’s hunting heritage once and for all.
 
Vanilla said:
Lumpy, I don’t even know who proposed this 10 years ago, so I can say your guess is incorrect.

As for what unit one applies for, nobody needs to be locked in. Just like now, apply for whatever unit you want. Heck, even change specifies if you’d like.

I still don’t love this idea, but I’m starting to believe it is the only way to keep trophy hunters form completely destroying Utah’s hunting heritage once and for all.
Click to expand...
Giddy up, get it done.
 
Well niller dont blame the trophy hunters for the low deer numbers. Blame you opportunists. Thinking you have to kill something every year No matter what it is. Take up coyote hunting and shoot all you want now there’s a challenge
 
Horsecorn said:
Well niller dont blame the trophy hunters for the low deer numbers. Blame you opportunists. Thinking you have to kill something every year No matter what it is. Take up coyote hunting and shoot all you want now there’s a challenge
Click to expand...


What do you think happens when you concentrate the vast majority of hunters onto smaller patches while expanding corporate hunting and LE?
 
What Do You Think Happens When We Keep Doing The Same STUPID SSHITT For Years & Decades?

Well!

Here The Hell We Are!


hossblur said:
What do you think happens when you concentrate the vast majority of hunters onto smaller patches while expanding corporate hunting and LE?
Click to expand...
 
Like I Said!

Make about 3 PISSCUTTER Units!

Let Hossy/Opportunists Hunt Them Every Year!

When There Ain't A F'N Deer Left I Don't Wanna Hear Him/Them WHINE!

Just Keep POUNDING Them 3 PISSCUTTER Units & Keep Wondering Why They Only Get Worse!
 
Horsecorn said:
Well niller dont blame the trophy hunters for the low deer numbers. Blame you opportunists. Thinking you have to kill something every year No matter what it is. Take up coyote hunting and shoot all you want now there’s a challenge
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I’m sure glad I don’t have the wild @$$ idea that hunting is the limiting factor in our deer herds.

And I don’t have that thought that I have to kill something every year no matter what. In fact, you might be surprised how long it’s been since I’ve killed a buck, by choice.

I don’t think trophy hunters have ruined the deer herd either. Go back and read my post and you’ll see what I actually said. It’s time for people to quit making crap up just to argue. Argue against my positions, not the positions you make up for me. If you can…
 
hossblur said:
So, does this FINALLY mean we have agreed, after 31 years, that $fw DID NOT save the mule deer, DID NOT create the Serengeti of the West, and their assinine plan of cut tags and set up more trophy hunting, not only FAILED, but FAILED MISERABLY.

2 decades late, but thank God we are finally breaking away from that model

Hopefully we can put a stake in the "just cut some more tags" morons and try some creative approaches that can both create more does, and allow for older class of bucks to be around more.
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Must stop the Expo and get our 200 plus tags back in the general draw.
Boycott the Expo.
 
D_Hoyt said:
I'm going to put my money on elk being the future of big game hunting in Utah. Not deer. ❄️
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While I do enjoy Elk hunting, sadly this year a few areas in northern Utah will have the scales tipped towards Elk taking over and the Deer herd never recovering.
I have seen both species survive together, but never thrive together.
The Elk are always the ones that take over the area and thrive and run the Deer out.
 
BrowningRage said:
While this is true... who determines how many deer are appropriate for a given area, and can they be trusted to give accurate data about it.? We get the population objectives, but is that based solely on wildlife carrying capacity for the unit.? Or something else?

For example, wouldn't cattle factor into carrying capacity for wildlife.? Where can we see how many cattle are grazing in our deer/elk units.?

Not rhetorical questions, genuine curiosity...
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Absolutely cattlemen have more say in our wildlife objectives than most realize.
Hence.....our elk herds and the changes as of late.
 
So, it is believed that removing scopes will save 400 bucks per year statewide.
We should all be shooting 180 inch bucks within a few years based on this change! I am excited :)
 
You Won't Be Able To See 180" Through That POS 1X Scope!

But The LongRangers Won't Have Any Trouble With It!

bowhunt said:
So, it is believed that removing scopes will save 400 bucks per year statewide.
We should all be shooting 180 inch bucks within a few years based on this change! I am excited :)
Click to expand...
 
slamdunk said:
Absolutely cattlemen have more say in our wildlife objectives than most realize.
Hence.....our elk herds and the changes as of late.
Click to expand...
Cattlemen and their Industry are more valuable to the state's economy than any herd of deer or whiny hunters.....
 
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Muley_73 said:
What exactly would I being crying about Vagilla?
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Fantastic question! Inquiring minds want to know. Help us out man.

Like I said, the guy I’m messing around with that I was talking to isn’t boobing about it. Why are you?
 
1000_F_80685167_ATOfS2bD9HuN9rwvxmLCN362YH4ZJgrK.jpg
 
Muley_73 said:
No crying…just a comment
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Sounds a lot like crying, particularly when the comment wasn’t for you.

But it’s hilarious you call it a “clown comment” and then the post just above this one is thrown out there. Go look in that mirror, and in your best Bryce Harper voice say “That’s a clown (comment) bro.”

I promise, it gets better. You’re going to be okay Muley!
 
Vanilla said:
Sounds a lot like crying, particularly when the comment wasn’t for you.

But it’s hilarious you call it a “clown comment” and then the post just above this one is thrown out there. Go look in that mirror, and in your best Bryce Harper voice say “That’s a clown (comment) bro.”

I promise, it gets better. You’re going to be okay Muley!
Click to expand...
Noooo, still just comment …made on public forum directed at a comment made on public forum…just kinda how public forums work.

Had a great fall…Utah continues to make bad management decisions. I don’t spend really anytime crying about it, I just do my thing and look for opportunities to push agendas I agree with. In fact I don’t ever recall crying over any of it.
In fact those that agreed with these changes have been pretty quiet and moved one when it didn’t pass. It’s generally you and your side it the isle that spends time “crying” on this forum when things don’t go your way.

Than again…just my perception of a public forum I’m commenting on. 😉
 
ZIIIIIING! You got me there.

I'm still trying to figure out how that comment to bessy was so hurtful to you. I'm sorry your feeling were hurt. It gets better.
 
This may go over a lot of your heads regarding deer, but fits a lot of you and includes the Wildlife Board, "'Can't' a slugger to lazy to try". ⚾
 
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