Wasatch Elk Dilemma

[Cam@strawberry]

LAST EDITED ON May-09-11 AT 02:21PM (MST)[p]Getting a few PM's about the wasatch so thought I'd try and clearly state my thoughts about whats going on

This year the proposed LE tags were 600 however, the rac only approved 500 tags same as last year. Not a big deal IMHO. The antlerless proposal was 3400 tags roughly including CWMU.

With estimated population of 7700 thats not such a big deal until we dive into the distribution of the elk.

So here is the problem as near as I can nail it, IF there are really 7700 head of elk on the wasatch, the vast majority of them reside on private and CWMU land. This makes them inaccessable to the average hunter. The public land elk are taking a beating from repeated years of large antlerless proposals. While the private land elk remain largely untouched. they are like rabbits makin babies all over the shop, populating uncontrollably.

The elk that exist on CWMU and private land are creating a problem during the winter for farmers around the Unit and part of this recommendation IMHO is to appease them, however, it is a futile effort that will not fix the existing issue.

The wasatch is still a fanastic hunt and hopefully remain so, however if we cut the cows out from under us the ability to recover from a mistake is seriously hampered. This is our main worry, that we will handicap the herd with out really dealing with the real issue at hand, because the numbers say so.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

For those of you who do know about it please forgive me for beating a dead horse....it's almost getting to that point now ;-)

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Hey Berry!

Don't forget!

They have gone so lows as to count Calves that ain't born/hit the ground yet!

What's that old sayingon't count your Chickens before they are Hatched!

What a Shame!

Destroy another Quality LE Elk Unit due to GREED!

WAFJ!



For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

I have hunted the Three C for the past 8 or 9 years and I haven't seen all of the cows on this piece of private that everyone is talking about. Sure, they migrate through there in December but they are NOT there in droves in during September and October. Don't get me wrong, there are cows, just not the numbers people are throwing out. Also, once these elk migrate down through the private housing subdivisions then they are in the fields down in Heber Valley where you can't shoot them. I do know that they are doubling the LO cow tags this year but they cut a month and a half of their hunt time out. I guess they want all the public hunters to line up on the property line and kill them as they come off. I'm not sure what they are thinking but what they are doing won't solve their problem. I can tell you this much, if these cow tags have even a 50% success rate, Current Creek, Trout Creek, Doc Flats, etc. won't have an elk on it in 4 or 5 years which will push all of the hunters on to the South and West end of the unit.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[c3]

Hey Jim, what would you suggest for a solution?

This is one of the inherant issues with our current system. Trying to keep private land owners happy while growing a larger herd.

Seems like another extended archery season around Heber Valley would be appropriate to keep the "bitchers" at bay. Either let us throw sticks at them for the whole early winter or stfu. It seems to have worked to some degree down in Sanpete county.

I found down there, land owners would rather have the elk and the ability to either charge or hunt the elk themselves than let anyone on their land. Maybe that won't work with all the tree hugger city folk transplants in Heber, but it seems like one of the only solutions to me.

Just curious what everyone up that way thinks is the appropriate solution?

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Prism]

LAST EDITED ON May-09-11 AT 10:54PM (MST)[p]It's a complex deal and there aren't any easy black and white decisions or answers.. We're talking about multiple private land owners and issues. A growing valley and growing elk herd aren't a very good mix.

IMO there really aren't many people even complaining about the elk to begin with. The vast majority of the people in the valley-even the Park City crowd like having the elk around. The DWR seems to do the best job kicking the beehive every year. From running them through fences to shooting them next to school bus stops...honestly I think most of us would just go on with business as usual enjoying the elk if they weren't making such a big deal out of it.

Personally I think if we really want to reduce the number of elk around the valley in the winter the majority need to be killed on the summer range. And IMO the vast majority of them are coming out of Wolf Creek Ranches, which probably hasn't been (legally ;-) ) hunted in around 10 years. I'm not 100% sure on the size of this development but I'd guess that it and victory combined have to be pushing 15-20,000 acres. That's a lot of ground to be growing elk on all summer.

The elk hunted on both CWMUs know that they can find refuge on Wolf Creek, Red Ledges, Timber Lakes, and portions of the LDS girls that doesn't allow hunting. There's also a ton of little partials of ground here and there that can't be hunted. Not too mention the elk know once they hit the valley floor they're pretty much home free-unless the dwr comes along

Both CWMUs run pretty much 100% year in year out on antlerless elk and tags have been doubled. Numbers are set by the DWR. I agree that CWMU numbers should be seperate from the general units

 

[Prism]

LAST EDITED ON May-09-11 AT 11:10PM (MST)[p]Looks like we're closer to 20,000 acres.

Rumor they're going to take 10 elk off of wolf creek. It's a start.

Here's some info for you guys looking for a summer home or mini ranch...
http://www.victoryranchclub.com/sites/courses/custom2.asp?id=1059&page=62759

www.wolfcreekranch.com/

I didn't see anything on either website about the finer things in life- like whacking cow elk off of the deck on your $15 million dollar vacation home.

But I hear you might get a tee time with Tiger Woods.

 

[ARROWHNTR]

Do any of you know if they put the East Heber unit back into the wasatch west antlerless elk unit? I know they took it out about three years back, but when i look at the map it now shows it in the wasatch west, but in the hunts in the unit it does not show antlerless elk.

I hope they left it out they have done a decent job managing the elk on this unit since they slaughtered them for years and the elk are just starting to get back to the numbers they were, before the 400+ permits days. I think unless they included it in the wasatch west there are only like 140 permits for that area.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Pete, I've thought about this since you posed the question and it's a tough situation. The only thing I can think of is to issue public tags for private property after coming to some sort of terms with the ranch owners. Even then, the East side of Heber poses a huge set of issues. The guys that own the CWMU's on the mountain don't necessarily own the farm ground. They definately don't own the housing developments and the church ground or the golf courses, or cabin property. These are the people that name the animals. One of the biggest moose I have ever seen on the hoof lives in Timberlakes. That being said, even if you gave out more cow tags on that side of the valley, I'm not sure it's going to make a bit of difference as far as gaining access to the animals.

I asked myself why they doubled the tags on the CWMU's yet cut their time to hunt them by a month and a half. The only logical explanation I can come up with is that they want the LO's to put some pressure on these elk earlier and force them out onto public land for the public hunters to shoot them. Public hunters still have until January to fill the tags. The problem I see with this is the fact that these elk go DOWN when pushed. They will go right out the bottom of these ranches and into the hay fields in town where you can't use a high powered rifle to kill them. If they head out the east side of the ranches in December and January, the only guys that can really get to them would have to be on snowmobiles. Prism has the only real alternative if you really want to kill some cows. Shoot them in August with rifles. That should make for a nice quiet bowhunt now wouldn't it? What do you think Pete?


It's always an adventure!!!