WASATCH FRONT/PISSED OFF

[ANTLERPINNACLE]

OKAY NOW THAT THE WASATCH FRONT EXTENDED BUCK HUNT IS OVER I NEED TO VENT MY FRUSRTATIONS OUT ON ALL THE JACK ASS'S THAT WERE DOING ALL KINDS OF ILLEGAL THINGS, ITS NOT FARE AND NOT RIGHT THAT YOU FREAKING IDIOTS CAN RUIN IT FOR HTE REST OF US WHO WORK OUR BUTTS OFF HIKING, SCOUTING, PREPARING IN EVERY WAY TO DO THINGS RIGHT SO WE CAN KEEP THIS HUNT. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE ANYMORE THAT ONE CAN USE SAYING I DIDN'T KNOW I COULDN'T SHOOT FRON THE ROAD OR OUT OF THE BACK OF MY BUDDIES TRUCK OR I DID'NT KNOW I COULDN'T HIKE ACCROSS THAT GUYS YARD OR SHOOT THROUGH HIS YARD, I DIDN'T KNOW I COULDN'T HUNT IN ALTA AN THERE IS NOW WAY SOMEONE SHOULD EVER SAY I DIDN'T KNOW I COULDN'T HUNT IN UTAH COUNTY ON THE POINT OF THE MOUNTAIN ! WHAT THE HECK IS UP ? YOU ALL SJOULD HAVE TAKEN THE TEST AS STUPID AS IT WAS IT STILL COVERED ALL THESE AREAS, MAYBE I AM TALKING TO THE WRONG CROWD BUT WE'VE GOT TO DO SOME THING OR THIS HUNT WILL BE GONE! I AM SOO SICK OF WAISTING MOST OF MY HUNTING TIME ON THE PHONE TRYING TO GET THE COPS OR TELLING GUYS THEY ARE WAY OUT OF LINE. WE NEED TO FORM SOME KIND OF VIGILANTY GROUP OF ETHICAL LAW ABIDDING HUNTERS TO GO AFTER THESE MORONS. SORRY FOR VENTING LIKE THIS I JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS HUNT GO AWAY!! WE NEED TO COME UP WITH A LARGE MAP THAT COVERS ALL THE BOUNDARIES AND LISTS ALL OF THE LAWS THEN POST THESE AT ALL OF THE ARCHERY AND SPORTING GOOD SHOPS AROUND SO PEOPLE WILL BE AWARE! THEN INFORCE IT WITH ALL OF OUR BUDDIES EVERYONE KNOWS SOMEONE WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING SHADY. WELL I'M OUT OF HERE SO LETS HEAR WHAT YOU ALL HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Silentstalker_work]

I must agree that there are a bunch of idiots out there. Unfortunately there is not much we can do to force people to have ethics. Calling the cops and writing down liscence plates along with strongly encouraging those we see breaking the law to change is about all we can do! I think if we get all vigilanty we could cause more problems than we would cure. I would hope that most of us would encourage our friends to attend a Bowhunter Education class. We know that we can't force ethics, but we can teach it. I know a lot of people would have their eyes opened from attending these classes and having open conversation with the instructor and other students. I am not naive enough to think this would fix the problem but it could help. Have a great day! And I look forward to hearing what everyone else thinks.

Chad

 

[wileywapati]

Cody, I feel your pain I would contact the boy's over at UBA
and give them any ideas you may have. I am pretty sure they have a program concerning rewards for poaching with archery equipment. Clint has a good releationship with the law enforcement people at the DWR and is great at making things happen.

Chad has hit it right on the head get into a Bow Ed class.
Rumor has it that someone I know quite well is planning on teaching a class on Feb 21 Feb 28 and March 6 all dates from 9:00-1:00 at the Lee Kay Center cost is $6.00 this is a Saturday class for those that have a hard time making it out on weeknights. From what I hear quite a few guy's from Utah County are planning to attend.

Just consider if you as a hunter are seeing these kind of things going on what do you think the people that live in these
area's see everyday and also keep in mind these same people are the same people that hold the future of this hunt in their hands


If this class would interest you or any of your buddies please contact me at [email protected]

Gordy

 

[ANTLERPINNACLE]

I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT LIVE RIGHT THERE AND IT IS VERY UPSETTING TO MANY OF THE HOME OWNERS. THEY SHOULD REALLY MAKE A BOW HUNTER ED CLASS MANDITORY IT SEEMS RIGHT I'M ALL FOR IT!!I DO THINK THAT IT WOULD REALLY HELP TO GET THE LOCAL SHOPS TO HOLD THESE CLASSES. THESE SHOP OWNERS NEED TO GET MOER INVOLED THEY ARE ULTIMATELY THE ONES WHO HAVE THE BEST CONTACT WITH THE BOWHUNTERS.

 

[Prism]

Every year I think it will get better and it just seems to get worse.

As a dedicated hunter I love to have to have the option to hunt the Wasatch along with the other hunts. However, I think this is where a lot of the trouble is coming from. Getting rid of all of the dedicated hunters on the Wasatch wouldn't solve the problem, but it would sure help. Make it available for the "archery only" guys.

Also, a lot of the people I've run into doing stupid things are from down south. Every year I talk with more and more guys that are driving up from Filmore, Beaver, St. George, Cedar, etc... Now, I'm not saying that you southern boys are slow, but some that I've spoken with just don't know where the boundaries are, etc. Just like I'd have a tough time heading down to hunt elk on the new extended areas.

The DWR needs to publish a map with access points, etc. Hopefully they'll take the $5 extended license fee and put it to good use. The DWR will atleast have an accurate idea as to how many guys actually hunt the extended area this year.

Imagine what kind of hunt it would be if the DWR made it a draw hunt with unlimited tags. This alone would weed out the majority of idiots.

Something needs to happen soon or the DWR will be forced to shut the hunt down.

 

[2_Point]

You guys have hit the nail on the head. This hunt will go the way of dinosaurs if guys can't change the horrible tactics of what seems to be the majority. I can't tell you how many jackarses I saw bow hunting above my dad's house in Alpine, 3+ miles from the boundary.

I have always wondered why they don't have an Archery Hunter Ed course along with Bow PROFICIENCY. You need to shoot a 22 well enough to pass regular Hunter Ed and bow hunting is a whole lot harder to master than rifles.

I don't agree it is the Dedicated hunters causing the problem. I think it is the dumbies that get tags after the drawings and all they can buy are archery tags. You could still buy an archery tag on Nov 30 and go hunt bucks, you can buy an archery tag today for the doe hunt on the Front. I think that the Youth, which can hunt all 3 seasons, are also part of the problem.

I also don't agree with changing the boundary to Provo Canyon to give definate boundaries. Just another area to get bad publicity against hunting.

 

[spotit1st]

I agree we dont need anymore area to expose ourselves to the anti Utah hunters. There is plenty of area to hunt right now and the Boundarys are not hard to learn. I did question the test for being able to hunt the Wasatch on the internet and found it not very valuable to me and could see how a new hunter in this area could find the test worthless. I do agree on a education class thats mandatory. But Im sure there will continue to be problems, and thats where I would like to see a DWR Officer in these areas regulary! The weekends get hit the hardest and its often obvious to see people breaking the LAW on those days, but you never ever see the Officers up on the mountain or on the roads. And Im sure we could use a few more Hired by the State to help out.

 

[muzz]

I dont archery hunt but I am thinking about it this next fall. Good luck with all the bonners out there. I like the idea of the boundry and laws. I think that should be something the F&G should post up on the net (if its not already) and make a map instead of the other way the use to describe areas, I hate reading the proclamation and reading the highway's and ect... on the area, for hell sakes make a damn map and call it good. I want to hunt the wasatch next fall and I dont want to run into these bonners and if I do I will definatly give them a peice of my mind, All that know me know I am not affraid to say or do something. I just flat ass don't care. If you are in the wrong then I will let you know. I know I have been put in my place a time or two. All I can say is good luck, when you achieve this with the archery hunt i got the waterfowlers you can start on next. then the .............. it goes on and on. Have a safe holiday season.

 

[bowhunt]

Guys,
We do not need a Bow Hunting class to fix this problem. That will not do it. We need the area patrolled, and those that are violating the laws need to be caught and punished.
The lame, week, stupid attemptto fix this problem this year was a joke. Come on taking a test on line is going to change anything.
I think the same applies to a class it is not going to make a difference.
I would like to see the hunt cost 20 dollars extra, and then the money be used to patrol it.
How about making it a draw? Make it unlimited but you cannot hunt other areas if you draw it.
Let's change something that is going to make a difference.

Diane?? any comments?

 

[ANTLERPINNACLE]

I THINK MAKING IT AN UNLIMITED DRAW MEANING YOU DRAW AN EXTENDED TAG YOU CAN'T HUNT ANYPLACE ELSE WOULD BE AWESOME! BUMP THE PRICE TAG UP AND CALL IT GOOD. THIS WOULD KEEP A LOT OF GUYS FROM BOUNCING UNITS EARLY AND KEEP THOSE WINERS FROM THE SOUTHERN UNITS HAPPY! WITH THE SHORTAGE OF HUNTERS I THINK AN EXTRA DOE TAG SHOULD COME WITH THE IT TO KEEP DEER #'S IN CHECK. I THINK THEY DO NEED TO MAKE A DETAILED MAP THAT OUTLINES ALL THE BOUNDARIES AND RULES THAT WAY WHEN A LAW BREAKER IS APPROACHED HE WILL HAVE NO EXCUSES!!!

 

[BLT]

I have turned in several people in Alpine where I live,Its unbelieveable the excusses I have heard,Me and some other friends have had too babysit a certain deer up above alpine for the past three years,He is not even close too the boundry,But every day we had too watch out for people trying to kill this buck,We took video and took down plate #,s And met with F&G and these people will be getting tickets,The fish cops are spread pretty thin around here,But if you contact them they will respond,I would like too see some dedicated hunter service hours be given too help patrol,I have personally put alot of time in myself,But I agree with A P the problem is huge and it is rediculous what people will do too kill a deer these days......just my opinion....

 

[ANTLERPINNACLE]

BLT, I KNOW THE DEER YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING . I HAVE BEEN EATCHING THE SAME ON FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS I HAVE TONS OF VIDEO ON HIM. HAS BEEN A ROCK SOLID 180 4X4 FOR THE LAST COUPLE YEARS AND THIS YEAR HE CAME IN A SOLID 190 5X5 . ANYWAYS I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN I HAVE SEEN A BUNCH OF GUYS TRYING TO GET ON HIM AND HE IS WAY OUT OF BOUNDS. YA KNOW THE FUNNY THING IS IS THAT THIS DEER IS AS TAME AS MY DOGS I CAN GET ON HIM WITHIN 30 YRDS ANY TIME I WANT SO THESE GUYS THAT ARE TRYING TO HUNT HIM ARE A BUNCH OF LOUSY HUNTERS!! JOE THE FISH COP SAID SOME GUYS KILLED A MONSTER 34 INCHER 2 CANYONS TO THE WEST OF THIS BUCK AND ANOTHER GOOD 4X4 IN THE SAME AREA NOT TO MENTION ALL THE GUYS THEY BUSTED OVER BEHIND MICRON!! I'VE SEEN YOU UP THERE IN YOUR WHITE FORD MAYBE WE CAN COMPARE SOME NOTES ABOUT OLD RAT EYES!!!

?? HAVE YOU OR DAVE SEEN THAT BIG NON TYP OVER ON THE MIDDLE MTN YET???

 

[BLT]

A P,Yes the buck that is on private ground came back this year,he has grown maybe alittle he has some small inlines on his one side,and his main beams have small splits in them,he has some neat character this year but still needs a few more years,as for the typical I am amazed he is still alive there has been days that I could have killed him with a rock,and it has been frustrating babysitting him during the ext archery season,but as of three days ago he is still hanging around,Also I scored his sheds from last year the most he could score was 175" he has very short mains 20",and only 16inchs of mass,This year with his cheaters he may break 180".....Not the type of buck I thought he would be when I first saw him 3 years ago,But he still is a neat buck for around here....And it would be a shame too loose him to some ext archery hunter breaking the law.................

 

[bowhunt]

AP,
How do you think we get the F&G to consider making it a draw? and I think you are right on, give 2 tags if you draw.
It should be a premium hunt, so they could charge $125 or whatever premium tags go for.
Do you have some ins with the Bowhunter orgs?

 

[ANTLERPINNACLE]

I MOSTLY HAVE IN'S WITH ALL OF THE SHOPS HERE IN UTAH! ALTHOUGH MY OFFICE IS NEXT TO THE CENTRAL REGION UBA REP.. I KNOW A COUPLE OF RAC MEMBERS AND THIS HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BUT WE REALLY NEED MORE ARCHERS TO STAND UP GET INVOLVED AND MAKE A VOICE!SPORTSMANS FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE MAY BE ABLE TO HELP. THEY ARE NOT ALWAYS FOR BOWHUNERS AND ESPECIALLY NOT FOR GIVING US ALL THE GOOD HUNTS BUT THEY DO HAVE THE MEANS TO GET THINGS DONE IN THIS STATE AND THAT COULD BE HUGE.I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHO TO TALK TO WITH THEM BUT I DO KNOW TONY ABBOTT AND MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING THERE. THE DWR COULD MAKE PLENTY OF MONEY OFF THIS TAG TO PATROL AND KEEP THE LAW BREAKERS IN CHECK,PLUS TURN IT INTO THE MOST AWESOME MULE DEER UNIT IN THE WEST!! AND WHAT DWR WOULDN'T WANT THAT?

 

[wileywapati]

Bowhunt the fact is the class does work. Why do you think so many states require the NBEF course to hunt in these states.
In other states where urban herds need to be controlled they either hire private contractors or require this type of course before you take part in this hunt.
I have been going down this path for the last two years I have met with Lenny and Rudy several times in the past, as of last years hunts the only complaints were from Draper with people hunting out of bounds and other bowhunters were the one's making the calls to report these slobs. Great but how do we try to instill RESPONSIBILITY in these hunters ?? I dont care what you do you can never teach ethics and this is not what the NBEF course is about it is about how you act among hunters non hunters and property owners and the game we hunt it is about respect for all of the above.
I remember a post a while ago Cody started about taking 140 yard shots now is a 140 yard shot ethical or responsible to me
the deer or elk he is shooting at you tell me.
We as hunters are in such a huge minority that if the non hunting majority wanted to end this or any other hunt they could put up a hell of a fight just as they did back in the spring of 2001 when this hunt did almost in fact go away.

Again my offer for the class stands please contact me we would love to have any and all

Gordy

 

[RuttCrazed]

Why do you think a bowhunter ed class will help? You have to remember all these people hunting up on the front already took Hunter's Ed, and apparently that didn't take. Some people are just a-holes, plain and simple. No matter what you do there will always be people who think it wont matter if they hunt out of the boundaries or in someone's yard, etc.. and unfortunately these are the people others notice, not the ethical law abiding ones.

Rut

 

[ANTLERPINNACLE]

HAY GORDY,WHY DON'T YOU CONTACT BRIAN COOK AT HUMPHRIES ARCHERY IN AMERICAN FORK AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET A CLASS GOING FOR THE UTAH COUNTY BOYS? HE IS GETTING READY T0 START LEAGUES AND HASOVER 120 GUYS SIGNED UP ALREADY. THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO TEACH !HE HAS PUT TOGETHER AN AWESOME FACILITY TO SHOOT WITH SHOTS UP TO 45 YARDS ALL INDOOR. DIRT TREES ROCKS ITS ALL THERE. MOST OF THE GUYS ARE NEW COMERS AND COULD USE SOME BOWHUNTING DIRECTION.AS FOR YOUR REMARK ABOUT MY 140 YRD SHOTS HE HE HE I MOSTLY WANTED TO GET A RISE FROM GUYS AND SEE WHAT THEY REALLY THOUGHT SINCE SOO MANY OF THEM THINK THEY CAN REALLY SHOOT THAT FAR. I DO MOST OF MY HUNTING WITH A RECURVE SO MY RANGE IS VERY LIMITED AND EVEN THOUGH MY OTHERT BOWS ARE DEFINATELY CAPABLE OF MAKING VERY LONG SHOTS ITS JUST NOT FARE NOR RIGHT TO TAKE THAM TOO MANY FACTORS AGAINST YOU!!

 

[wileywapati]

Cody as a matter of fact I ran into him on Saturday up parley's. Probably the nicest guy you would ever want to meet
I did mention about the class and doing one down there.
He seemed all for it. We will definately follow up with
him.

G

 

[SneakAttack]

Rutt, you got it right! This entire post sounds like a bunch of anti's got together: more laws, more regulations, more classes. What we need is for the laws and regs we are already faced with to be enforced. "But the fish and game are spread so thin", what ever!

It's obvious that some people are going to do what they see fit. And for those guys, no law or boundry is going to stop them. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education. But a mandatory class is not going to change a thing! I don't have the answer. All I know is that I'm sick of being penalized for other peoples incompetence.

 

[ANTLERPINNACLE]

you guys are right a class probably wouldn't do a dang thing for a guys ethics but it if a class was manditory however long it may be.It just might keep those lazy good for nothing law breakers away if they know they have to show their faces at a class where everyone there will see them and they have to prove they know the laws we are trying to get an awareness in the bowhunters so more of us will be on the lookout and help. Laws and regs are not here to punish or limit us they are to protect and ensure the things we love will be around for our kids and generations to come, if we didn't have them we wouldn't even be talking about this stuff right now!!!

 

[bowhunt]

Gordy,
What do you mean "the fact is classes do work" what facts?
I am all for education, but I fail to see how a class offered at a bowhunting store is going to do anything at all.
Maybe a mandatory class would keep the loosers out of the area, but it will not change a doofus into an ethical hunter.
I know it is a complex issue, so maybe several things need done.

 

[SneakAttack]

"Laws and regs are not here to punish or limit us they are to protect and ensure the things we love will be around for our kids and generations to come, if we didn't have them we wouldn't even be talking about this stuff right now!!! "

AP,

Laws and regs may not be in place to punish, but are for sure there to limit us. Sound wildlife and habitat management will ensure the future of our sport...Good luck with that!!! No two ways about it, something needs to be done.

I got it! Are you ready for this? It's a simple solution...Read the proc and use a little common sense. Now all you need to do is teach people common sense, let me know how it goes.

 

[wileywapati]

Bowhunt get in touch with me and take the class in Feb and March. Hell I will even spring the whole six bucks for the state
card for you. This class will be taught at the Lee Kay center
but we have taught most of our classes in archery shops.
The NBEF course weighs heavily on RESPONSIBILITY as said above you can never teach ethics and ethics are highly personal.
I have in the past been for required Bowhunter Education
for the Wasatch Front, But have mellowed slightly because of reasons that have been mentioned along with the fact that in Utah we are a little behind in Bow Ed instructors but this is slowly coming around.
Again I would challenge you to go through the class and then tell me what you think. several of the states and Canadian provinces not to mention Africa all believe in this class and the material it teaches. Now if it works in places like Idaho, Alaska, Montana, to mention our neighbors out west it must hold some merit and make some impact, I can guarantee it changed me
and caused me to open my eye's on even minute things such as the type of broadhead I had been using, to what I carry in my pack, and how or who I contact to secure permission to access private property, how I would blood trail a deer in low light or no light,what camo patterns actually work and why. Not to mention
shot angles, anatomy and some kick butt survival techniques,
Dudes the class is a hell of a lot more than put it behind the front leg and pull the release.

Gordy

 

[bowhunt]

Gordy,
I will take the class. I am sure it will teach me a lot of things. I hope you do not get the idea that I am opposed to education I am not. I think it is valuable and has it's place. If the course is not mandantory I do not think it will do any good.
I think if it is mandatory then it will make a difference for some, but not solve the whole problem unless you include boundaries, etc.

 

[2_Point]

I think that State mandated archery education courses along with a proficiency test to pass would make a positive impact on Archery hunting in Utah. Like was said before, other states mandate an archery ed class because some good does come out of it.

 

[spotit1st]

I believe a Mandatory Class would help, but how many times have you been checked on the Extended Area by A Warden, I have hunted that area for over 10 years and have never seen one even close to the Area. I would bet that half the hunters in this area didn't even take the test, or pay the $5.00 for the Extended permit this year, hell most of them probably didn't even know that you had to do these simple 2 items... And this is where the class would help.



It just BOILS down to their needs to be more LAW ENFORCEMENT!!

 

[browtine]

It may be that you have never seen one because alot of them are in surounding areas with bow hunters outside the extanded area. I have spoke to a fish and game officer personally. I asked him how the extended area was this year and he told me it was a nightmare. His area is on the utah county side and he has been kept busy during the entire extended archery hunt. He also told me of another problem. Fish and game officers have to pick up dead deer that have been hit by cars in there area. He told me that if he takes a day off or misses picking up dead deer one day, the entire next day is spent picking up these deer. I dont understand why local police departments and animal control services cant pick these deer up. It usually doesnt take a genious to figure out if a deer has been poached or is missing head gear. Just my 2 cents on this matter. Not to mention the fact that there is an extreme shortage of wildlife officers in the state of utah.

 

[predator]

I have to agree with you all, if the last few weeks of complete idiocy I've seen is ANY indication of the moronic few that are influencing everybody's opinions, then guess what....the Wasatch Front E.A. is history.

I had the unfortunate luck to destroy a shoulder 2 years ago, and am still trying to get the strength back to pull a bow. Thus, I have been forced to change some of my ways, and go to a rifle or muzzleloader. This year I drew a cow tag here on the Front, and guess what I've seen? Bowhunters in the back of trucks, bowhunters trespassing and the biggest one of all, bowhunters with no hunter orange as required by law. It happened again today, and maybe the guy is on this forum, so yah, YOU, the guy in the blue Toyota from Morgan county, I don't buy your weak excuse that you 'didn't know'. The cow hunt has been open since Nov. 29th, and I have yet to see one single bowhunter wearing orange, the ones I've had the unfortunate misery of encountering actually *whined* about how an any weapon hunt could occur during THEIR bow hunt. I'm sorry, they've had the entire late summer, fall and early winter to hunt, so I'm not that sympathetic.

There was one ethical bowhunter my dad and I met, and if you are on this forum, I thank you for taking the time to catch up to us and apologize. He was given some bad information by a county sheriff, and as a result was without orange. It's too bad not even local law enforcement takes the time to read the proclamation.

All that said, and all being heard regarding the lack of enforcement, I have a suggestion. I am on the board of Sportsmen on Patrol, which is basically a crime watch in the woods. There is a real easy number to remember when it comes to any wildlife crime- 1-800-662-DEER, I used several times the last few weeks.

If all we do is complain about the violations we witness that we don't report, then nothing will change. Only through living our own code of ethics will we influence others, and this includes no tolerance for the fools that cost us our opportunities.

My 2 cents, thank you.