D
D13er
Guest
we ain't seen nothing yet.....dumb might be the wrong word for this guy...comrade Obama isn't gonna be fun.
reat post/pic, thanks for sharing
JB
reat post/pic, thanks for sharing
JB
NMPaul
Moderator
- Messages
- 8,105
This guy is stumbling through this press conference. He is however dropped some of his liberal stump speech.
This stimulus package is a act of desperation. I bet that If GWB was still in, the speech would not sound much different.
Its like listening to George W, but, just a little darker.
This stimulus package is a act of desperation. I bet that If GWB was still in, the speech would not sound much different.
Its like listening to George W, but, just a little darker.
D
D13er
Guest
wtf kind of stupid love struck journalist would ask about A-ROD and steroids to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES ????Especially now.....
and you are right eel....
Praise the Lord and pass the ammo...
If you can't shoot Santa Anna's men, STFU and load my gun....
great post/pic, thanks for sharing
JB
and you are right eel....
Praise the Lord and pass the ammo...
If you can't shoot Santa Anna's men, STFU and load my gun....
great post/pic, thanks for sharing
JB
D
D13er
Guest
He pics reporters...and their questions without seeing where they are at....wtf is that?? Hmmmmm...
great post/pic, thanks for sharing
JB
great post/pic, thanks for sharing
JB
N
Naildriver
Guest
You know when he's not reading the teleprompter. The "uh,and" are very predictable.
His knowledge on economics is laughable ,but scary at the same time.
This president has never ran a buisness, but is trying to convince everyone that he knows what he's doing on economics.
His knowledge on economics is laughable ,but scary at the same time.
This president has never ran a buisness, but is trying to convince everyone that he knows what he's doing on economics.
It doesn't matter that the president didn't get a nobel prize for economics. The president should have common sense and values but mostly they need to be able to articulate and speak, thats where presidental power comes from. I do know that the last president had got us into a heck of a mess,maybe he didn't mean to, but he listened to radical right far too often, those soulless, money grubbing, Limbaugh lovers, will get you in trouble every time.
NMPaul
Moderator
- Messages
- 8,105
Piper, thats a little off topic. We all know GWB stumbled through any type of questions.
The point is this guy is worse. It remains to be seen if the Networks will start pointing it out. Will we get the SNL spoofs.
We will see.
It has always been a Liberal attack plan to make the other party out as dunces or to demonize them as they tried to do with Cheney.
Now their golden boy talks like he is dumb as a sack of hammers.
Time will tell.
The point is this guy is worse. It remains to be seen if the Networks will start pointing it out. Will we get the SNL spoofs.
We will see.
It has always been a Liberal attack plan to make the other party out as dunces or to demonize them as they tried to do with Cheney.
Now their golden boy talks like he is dumb as a sack of hammers.
Time will tell.
I didn't hear the whatever it is your talking about, and don't really care. time will tell, If he uses his bully pulpit to talk the truth about American health care, and intitlements, and the state of our country, then I could care less if he studdars and stammers. I didn't like GWB because he didn't show honesty about those things.
AZStickman
Moderator
- Messages
- 2,371
He did make sense when he stated "we cannot survive as a nation of spenders we have to make things" but there was nothing in his speech or responses addressing the loss of or the rebuilding of manufacturing capacity in this country.Just a short term energy efficiency home improvement project...Terry
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
>I didn't hear the whatever it
>is your talking about, and
>don't really care. time
>will tell, If he uses
>his bully pulpit to talk
>the truth about American health
>care, and intitlements, and the
>state of our country, then
>I could care less if
>he studdars and stammers.
>I didn't like GWB because
>he didn't show honesty about
>those things.
Piper,
I am not sure how you can have a rational discussion regarding "intitlements" and still want the government to take over the health care industry. If you think healthcare is expensive now just wait until it is free. It will be the single largest entitlement program the government ever put together.
Also if you believe Obama spoke the truth about what is happening and continues to happen in our economy that is certainly an opinion however from my perspective he not telling anything approaching the truth.
Nemont
>is your talking about, and
>don't really care. time
>will tell, If he uses
>his bully pulpit to talk
>the truth about American health
>care, and intitlements, and the
>state of our country, then
>I could care less if
>he studdars and stammers.
>I didn't like GWB because
>he didn't show honesty about
>those things.
Piper,
I am not sure how you can have a rational discussion regarding "intitlements" and still want the government to take over the health care industry. If you think healthcare is expensive now just wait until it is free. It will be the single largest entitlement program the government ever put together.
Also if you believe Obama spoke the truth about what is happening and continues to happen in our economy that is certainly an opinion however from my perspective he not telling anything approaching the truth.
Nemont
I think the Washington Post saw a different news conference...
"The media coverage of Barack Obama's first presidential news conference last night has been generally positive, concluding that he was commanding and resolute as he pressed his argument for an economic stimulus package, dramatically defining the stakes, marginalizing his critics and explaining how only government can come to the nation's rescue."
"The media coverage of Barack Obama's first presidential news conference last night has been generally positive, concluding that he was commanding and resolute as he pressed his argument for an economic stimulus package, dramatically defining the stakes, marginalizing his critics and explaining how only government can come to the nation's rescue."
I have never posted in here, so I don't know you guys that well.
If the following was intended as sarcasm I apologize to the
poster in advance.
piper said "The president should have common sense and values but mostly they need to be able to articulate and speak, thats where presidental power comes from."
Why is it most important for the president to be a good speaker?
Is showmanship more important than substance?
Please cite some examples of common sense that pres. Obama has displayed.
To say "he has values" applies to everybody. It's the nature of
those values that we judge someone by. Please list the values pres. Obama has displayed, that will make him a good president?
If the following was intended as sarcasm I apologize to the
poster in advance.
piper said "The president should have common sense and values but mostly they need to be able to articulate and speak, thats where presidental power comes from."
Why is it most important for the president to be a good speaker?
Is showmanship more important than substance?
Please cite some examples of common sense that pres. Obama has displayed.
To say "he has values" applies to everybody. It's the nature of
those values that we judge someone by. Please list the values pres. Obama has displayed, that will make him a good president?
T
TFinalshot
Guest
Let me help you jabali, if obama is a liberal (I think eveyone agrees at least on that, right), according to the definition of liberal, here's what obama believes.
"The first liberal state was the United States of America<14>, founded on the principle that "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."<15>"
Here's the full text from wikipedia:
Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals.<1>
Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Within liberalism, there are various streams of thought which compete over the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for constitutional liberalism, which encompasses support for: freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private property,<2> and a transparent system of government.<3><4><5> All liberals, as well as some adherents of other political ideologies, support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.<6>
Liberalism appears in two broad forms: Classical liberalism, which emphasizes the importance of individual liberty, and contemporary liberalism which emphasizes some kind of material equality.<7> Those who identify themselves as classical liberals, to distinguish themselves from social liberals, oppose all government regulation of business and the economy, with the exception of laws against force and fraud, and support free market laissez-faire capitalism. In Europe, the term "liberalism" is closer to the economic outlook of American economic conservatives.<8> In the United States, "liberalism" is most often used in the sense of modern liberalism, which supports some regulation of business and other economic interventionism which they believe to be in the public interest. They tend to support a welfare state<5>, a government-imposed minimum wage, laws against discrimination in hiring, and affirmative action.<9><5>
Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment and rejects many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, established religion, and economic protectionism.<10><11><12> Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity.<13>
The first liberal state was the United States of America<14>, founded on the principle that "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."<15> This said, much of early liberal thought originated in and influenced the politics of The Netherlands, the United Kingdom and France.
"The first liberal state was the United States of America<14>, founded on the principle that "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."<15>"
Here's the full text from wikipedia:
Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals.<1>
Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Within liberalism, there are various streams of thought which compete over the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for constitutional liberalism, which encompasses support for: freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private property,<2> and a transparent system of government.<3><4><5> All liberals, as well as some adherents of other political ideologies, support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.<6>
Liberalism appears in two broad forms: Classical liberalism, which emphasizes the importance of individual liberty, and contemporary liberalism which emphasizes some kind of material equality.<7> Those who identify themselves as classical liberals, to distinguish themselves from social liberals, oppose all government regulation of business and the economy, with the exception of laws against force and fraud, and support free market laissez-faire capitalism. In Europe, the term "liberalism" is closer to the economic outlook of American economic conservatives.<8> In the United States, "liberalism" is most often used in the sense of modern liberalism, which supports some regulation of business and other economic interventionism which they believe to be in the public interest. They tend to support a welfare state<5>, a government-imposed minimum wage, laws against discrimination in hiring, and affirmative action.<9><5>
Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment and rejects many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, established religion, and economic protectionism.<10><11><12> Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity.<13>
The first liberal state was the United States of America<14>, founded on the principle that "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."<15> This said, much of early liberal thought originated in and influenced the politics of The Netherlands, the United Kingdom and France.
2
2buckridge
Guest
Uh, um, uh hum, like I have stated earlier, America held hostage.
202typical
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,123
Tmoneyshot
If you are going to quote the ultra liberal Wikipedia then I see it is only fair to have some balance. Here is the definition of the modern day Liberal according to Conservapedia.
A liberal is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards, and often a liberal is merely someone who uses many words to say nothing.
A liberal supports many of the following political positions and practices.
* Taxpayer-funded and/or legalized abortion
* Censorship of teacher-lead prayer in classrooms and school sponsored events
* Support for gun control
* Support of obscenity and pornography as a First Amendment right[1]
* Income redistribution, usually through progressive taxation
* Government-rationed medical care, such as Universal Health Care
* Taxpayer-funded and government-controlled public education
* The denial of inherent gender differences
* Insisting that men and women have the same access to jobs in the military
* Legalized same-sex marriage
* Implementation of affirmative action
* Political correctness
* Support of labor unions
* Teaching acceptance of promiscuity through sexual "education" rather than teaching abstinence from sex.[2]
* A "living Constitution" that is reinterpreted as liberals prefer, rather than how it was intended
A satirical conception of the liberal brain.
A satirical conception of the liberal brain.
* Government programs to rehabilitate criminals
* Abolition of the death penalty
* Environmentalism[3]
* Disarmament treaties
* Globalism
* Opposition to an interventionalist American foreign policy [4]
* Opposition to full private property rights[5]
* Reinstating the Fairness Doctrine
* In 2005, it was reported by CBS News that liberals were the most likely supporters of the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is a key component of atheistic ideologies in the Western World.
* Opposition to domestic wire-tapping as authorized in the Patriot Act
* Calling anyone they agree with a "professor" regardless of whether he earned that distinction based on a real peer review of his work (see, e.g., Richard Dawkins and Barack Obama).
Liberalism in North America today
Democrats and many media outlets in the U.S. are often liberal.[8]
* Some argue that liberals typically support economic policy similar to that of fascism. [9]
* Liberals claimed a monopoly on compassion, decency, and social justice (as defined by themselves), posing as the sole defenders of civic virtue against a horde of backwoodsmen, racists, and religious fanatics. [4]
There's another goal, from my point of view, which is to try to lay the groundwork for a radical political force which would conceive of itself as distinctly to the left of moderate, reformist American liberals. And that has two aspects. One is to try to change that liberalism, to transform it by analysis, critique, and activism; the second is to build a radical movement which would be an autonomous force in its own right, which would be distinct from the traditional American liberal consensus. This radical part of the program involves not simply supporting the liberal students against conservative students and conservative professors, but trying to act on them, to push them to the left. It also involves trying to find and support, even trying to help create, networks of radical students in law school and of radical professors around the country ? students and teachers who see themselves as wanting to go a lot further than most people want to go.
Historical Liberalism
In history, the word "liberal" has meant different things at different times, and was associated with individual liberty in prior centuries. In the postwar period, liberals supported government intervention in the economy and welfare state policies, as well as peaceful coexistence with the communist block, which are not liberal policies in the sense of classical liberalism. After the end of the cold war, with the demise of socialism and communism, many liberals embraced some ideas from economic neo-liberalism, and coined it the "Third Way". In the area of national security and foreign policy liberals in the U.S. failed to define a consistent stance, even after the events of 9/11 and the beginning of the war in Iraq. Liberals generally support affirmative action, gay marriage, and abortion.[16]
Original meaning: Classical Liberalism
Liberalism is a political philosophy with freedom as its core value. The term was originally applied to supporters of individual liberties and equal rights, but, in America, the term has come to represent a movement of social change that often conflicts with conservative values such as moral values and tradition.
See Classical Liberalism. Compare Libertarianism.
Alternative meanings of 'liberal'
One definition of liberal is anything that is not conservative. For example, the American Heritage Dictionary includes this definition of "liberal":[17]
* Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas ...
If you are going to quote the ultra liberal Wikipedia then I see it is only fair to have some balance. Here is the definition of the modern day Liberal according to Conservapedia.
A liberal is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards, and often a liberal is merely someone who uses many words to say nothing.
A liberal supports many of the following political positions and practices.
* Taxpayer-funded and/or legalized abortion
* Censorship of teacher-lead prayer in classrooms and school sponsored events
* Support for gun control
* Support of obscenity and pornography as a First Amendment right[1]
* Income redistribution, usually through progressive taxation
* Government-rationed medical care, such as Universal Health Care
* Taxpayer-funded and government-controlled public education
* The denial of inherent gender differences
* Insisting that men and women have the same access to jobs in the military
* Legalized same-sex marriage
* Implementation of affirmative action
* Political correctness
* Support of labor unions
* Teaching acceptance of promiscuity through sexual "education" rather than teaching abstinence from sex.[2]
* A "living Constitution" that is reinterpreted as liberals prefer, rather than how it was intended
A satirical conception of the liberal brain.
A satirical conception of the liberal brain.
* Government programs to rehabilitate criminals
* Abolition of the death penalty
* Environmentalism[3]
* Disarmament treaties
* Globalism
* Opposition to an interventionalist American foreign policy [4]
* Opposition to full private property rights[5]
* Reinstating the Fairness Doctrine
* In 2005, it was reported by CBS News that liberals were the most likely supporters of the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is a key component of atheistic ideologies in the Western World.
* Opposition to domestic wire-tapping as authorized in the Patriot Act
* Calling anyone they agree with a "professor" regardless of whether he earned that distinction based on a real peer review of his work (see, e.g., Richard Dawkins and Barack Obama).
Liberalism in North America today
Democrats and many media outlets in the U.S. are often liberal.[8]
* Some argue that liberals typically support economic policy similar to that of fascism. [9]
* Liberals claimed a monopoly on compassion, decency, and social justice (as defined by themselves), posing as the sole defenders of civic virtue against a horde of backwoodsmen, racists, and religious fanatics. [4]
There's another goal, from my point of view, which is to try to lay the groundwork for a radical political force which would conceive of itself as distinctly to the left of moderate, reformist American liberals. And that has two aspects. One is to try to change that liberalism, to transform it by analysis, critique, and activism; the second is to build a radical movement which would be an autonomous force in its own right, which would be distinct from the traditional American liberal consensus. This radical part of the program involves not simply supporting the liberal students against conservative students and conservative professors, but trying to act on them, to push them to the left. It also involves trying to find and support, even trying to help create, networks of radical students in law school and of radical professors around the country ? students and teachers who see themselves as wanting to go a lot further than most people want to go.
Historical Liberalism
In history, the word "liberal" has meant different things at different times, and was associated with individual liberty in prior centuries. In the postwar period, liberals supported government intervention in the economy and welfare state policies, as well as peaceful coexistence with the communist block, which are not liberal policies in the sense of classical liberalism. After the end of the cold war, with the demise of socialism and communism, many liberals embraced some ideas from economic neo-liberalism, and coined it the "Third Way". In the area of national security and foreign policy liberals in the U.S. failed to define a consistent stance, even after the events of 9/11 and the beginning of the war in Iraq. Liberals generally support affirmative action, gay marriage, and abortion.[16]
Original meaning: Classical Liberalism
Liberalism is a political philosophy with freedom as its core value. The term was originally applied to supporters of individual liberties and equal rights, but, in America, the term has come to represent a movement of social change that often conflicts with conservative values such as moral values and tradition.
See Classical Liberalism. Compare Libertarianism.
Alternative meanings of 'liberal'
One definition of liberal is anything that is not conservative. For example, the American Heritage Dictionary includes this definition of "liberal":[17]
* Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas ...
Thank you for the reply TFinalshot
However my first 2 questions were not responded to.
1.Why is it most important for the president to be a good speaker?
Is showmanship more important than substance?
2.Please cite some examples of common sense that pres. Obama has displayed.
....and the third was only half answered.
After reading the definition you posted I see there are 2 distinct
types of liberals.....1-classical and 2-contemporary.
#1 states "Those who identify themselves as classical liberals, to distinguish themselves from social liberals, oppose all government regulation of business and the economy, with the exception of laws against force and fraud, and support free market laissez-faire capitalism."
#2 states"In the United States, "liberalism" is most often used in the sense of modern liberalism, which supports some regulation of business and other economic interventionism which they believe to be in the public interest. They tend to support a welfare state<5>, a government-imposed minimum wage, laws against discrimination in hiring, and affirmative action.Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity.
I have to assume that you are saying pres. Obama (as one of his
values) is part of group #2
You began your post with "Let me help you jabali, if obama is a liberal (I think everyone agrees at least on that, right), according to the definition of liberal, here's what obama believes. "
Based on this part of your definition "Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity" ,I must disagree that he is a liberal.
Maybe piper will chime in to clarify the first two?
However my first 2 questions were not responded to.
1.Why is it most important for the president to be a good speaker?
Is showmanship more important than substance?
2.Please cite some examples of common sense that pres. Obama has displayed.
....and the third was only half answered.
After reading the definition you posted I see there are 2 distinct
types of liberals.....1-classical and 2-contemporary.
#1 states "Those who identify themselves as classical liberals, to distinguish themselves from social liberals, oppose all government regulation of business and the economy, with the exception of laws against force and fraud, and support free market laissez-faire capitalism."
#2 states"In the United States, "liberalism" is most often used in the sense of modern liberalism, which supports some regulation of business and other economic interventionism which they believe to be in the public interest. They tend to support a welfare state<5>, a government-imposed minimum wage, laws against discrimination in hiring, and affirmative action.Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity.
I have to assume that you are saying pres. Obama (as one of his
values) is part of group #2
You began your post with "Let me help you jabali, if obama is a liberal (I think everyone agrees at least on that, right), according to the definition of liberal, here's what obama believes. "
Based on this part of your definition "Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity" ,I must disagree that he is a liberal.
Maybe piper will chime in to clarify the first two?
T
TFinalshot
Guest
02, youre as windy as any politician on earth, it's pretty easy for most on the right to draw the line, i'll make it even more simple than your pontification:
Abortion. . . that's it, period, it is the litmus test, period, end of story. the right will throw you under the bus no matter how conservative you are, if you respect a woman'ss right to choose. . .
end of story. . .
Abortion. . . that's it, period, it is the litmus test, period, end of story. the right will throw you under the bus no matter how conservative you are, if you respect a woman'ss right to choose. . .
end of story. . .
202typical
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,123
"Abortion. . . that's it, period, it is the litmus test, period, end of story. the right will throw you under the bus no matter how conservative you are, if you respect a woman'ss right to choose."
That is as it should be. If not who is going to stand up and fight for the right of the unborn human being? Why should a female species get to decide who lives and who dies. There is a human being growing inside her what rights does that human being get?
That is as it should be. If not who is going to stand up and fight for the right of the unborn human being? Why should a female species get to decide who lives and who dies. There is a human being growing inside her what rights does that human being get?
T
TFinalshot
Guest
Like I said, we dont need to mince words, listen to Rush, or argue about the definitions or even spending money, the line has been drawn in the sand, it's abortion. One party believes that if your on one side of the line your a democrat no matter what your fiscal or states rights policies might me, the other party really does not care much which side your on as long as you stay out of my personal business, it's between the mother, her docter and HER creator, not yours. . .
All i'm saying is that we dont need to argue about all this crap, it does not ever change any minds, and at the end of the day, i'll bet if you measured it, there would be NO statistical distance between how people vote, and what they believe about abortion. . .
bye bye. . .
All i'm saying is that we dont need to argue about all this crap, it does not ever change any minds, and at the end of the day, i'll bet if you measured it, there would be NO statistical distance between how people vote, and what they believe about abortion. . .
bye bye. . .
202typical
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,123
" it's between the mother, her docter and HER creator, not yours. . ."
So using your logic if a person is seen by a mother as being of no use to her she can kill said person and it is none of anyone business. And if she enlist a doctor to help OFF the person it is no ones business.
I could care less who the woman thinks or doesn't think her creator is. The bottom line, abortion is murder of a human being plain and simple.
I will agree that I will not change your mind. However I will never understand how a person can standby while baby's are being killed. So if it does not effect Tmoney he does not care?
So using your logic if a person is seen by a mother as being of no use to her she can kill said person and it is none of anyone business. And if she enlist a doctor to help OFF the person it is no ones business.
I could care less who the woman thinks or doesn't think her creator is. The bottom line, abortion is murder of a human being plain and simple.
I will agree that I will not change your mind. However I will never understand how a person can standby while baby's are being killed. So if it does not effect Tmoney he does not care?
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-09 AT 04:48PM (MST)[p]The point is, the guy stutters and stammers and doesn't sound very articulate. Without the teleprompter.
He has said we will be in the hole from now till hell freezes over.
The stock market has looked nothing but bad since he over took McCain in the pols. That is because it will be ages before our output is on the up swing with all the items he holds as important.
He had a chance to be the president for the nation, but instead he said, "I won, so I decide." He could have taken a week or two and crafted this bill to allow for a better job creation in very short time. He decided not to do that, becasue he would have to go against Pelosi and Reed. Those folks now run the country.
I'll translate that for you, "we are doing it Pelosi and Reeds way, no matter what makes sense."
He has done a poor job of selling this plan, that he doesn't even understand. That is because he didn't take enough time to understand the plan.
He has said we will be in the hole from now till hell freezes over.
The stock market has looked nothing but bad since he over took McCain in the pols. That is because it will be ages before our output is on the up swing with all the items he holds as important.
He had a chance to be the president for the nation, but instead he said, "I won, so I decide." He could have taken a week or two and crafted this bill to allow for a better job creation in very short time. He decided not to do that, becasue he would have to go against Pelosi and Reed. Those folks now run the country.
I'll translate that for you, "we are doing it Pelosi and Reeds way, no matter what makes sense."
He has done a poor job of selling this plan, that he doesn't even understand. That is because he didn't take enough time to understand the plan.
T
TFinalshot
Guest
this is not personal issue with me, i'm pointing out an interesting issue and some want to fixate on the details, and make the right vs wrong debate on abortion, i'm strictly making a point about what some use as a measuring stick for your political leanings. . . it's useless to go into the why's and what's, and who's right and who's wrong on abortion. The point is I think we can just have an election on the abortion platform and it would wind up the same whether we argued about 100 other things, it wont change the outcome. The republicans are anti abortion as a group and if you not anti abortion, youre thrown under the buss, no matter what your fiscal policies might be. . .
H
huntindude
Guest
202, read the Roe v Wade decision it should answer some questions for you. if it doesn't, well who cares that's the way it is.
Why is Obama expected to look smarter trying to sell a fix for Bush's mess than Bush was making it? just try to look cool in Obama's position right now I dare you.
If he can shake up the bag of crap he was handed last month and give us back chocolate I'll be real impressed. I expect him to fail because his task is near impossible, but unlike most of you I'm not wishing for failure.
Why is Obama expected to look smarter trying to sell a fix for Bush's mess than Bush was making it? just try to look cool in Obama's position right now I dare you.
If he can shake up the bag of crap he was handed last month and give us back chocolate I'll be real impressed. I expect him to fail because his task is near impossible, but unlike most of you I'm not wishing for failure.
![IMG_0143[2863].jpg](/xf/data/xfmg/thumbnail/4/4082-9279ad758aa793685cf6add955cd365b.jpg?1614229909)
