What now? After load work up on my hunting rifle-how often do you shoot it?

[LorenzJohnPaul5]

Hi,

So after load work up and all, I have my hunting rifle shooting like I want. Question is-how often do you all shoot your gun(s) after load work up?

Other than 5-10 shots a year to site in again, right? Your done?

 

[Rie bread]

Hi,

So after load work up and all, I have my hunting rifle shooting like I want. Question is-how often do you all shoot your gun(s) after load work up?

Other than 5-10 shots a year to site in again, right? Your done?

I shoot every month

 

[Weiserbucks]

5-10 per year to sight it in is standard Fudd procedure.

 

[Chesterwyo]

Shot the rifle i hunted with the most last year over 500 times between March and December.

 

[LorenzJohnPaul5]

Well, it’s a 300 win mag and though I love shooting it I don’t want to wear out the barrel

 

[Flyjunky12]

I shoot every other weekend. About 40 rounds each with hunting rifles and about 50 with .223 trainer.

 

[Weiserbucks]

Well, it’s a 300 win mag and though I love shooting it I don’t want to wear out the barrel

Do you not drive your truck because it'll eventually run out of fuel? Barrels are easily replaced once they're worn out.

 

[Chesterwyo]

Well, it’s a 300 win mag and though I love shooting it I don’t want to wear out the barrel

They make new ones every day.

 

[mtmuley]

5-10 per year to sight it in is standard Fudd procedure.

What is the stupid Fudd reference I've been seeing thrown around? mtmuley

 

[Rie bread]

What is the stupid Fudd reference I've been seeing thrown around? mtmuley

Elmer Fudd, as we know wasn’t the best hunter

 

[DaveD]

With my main big game rifles, I shoot them 50-100 rounds in the late summer/ early fall as season gets closer. The rest of the year I still shoot but with small calibers.

 

[Slick8]

I like to shoot and I'm capable of shooting a fairly long ways.

That last part take practice in many forms, 22LR, 17HMR, 6.5 Creed, 7 SAUM and soon to be 338 RUM. My last big gun was a 30 Nosler which I put 400ish rounds on 3 years. Prior to that was a 300 WM with a lot lot lot of rounds on it. Still shooting great when I sold it. I was confident to 850 in perfect conditions. Less than ideal conditions which is mostly wind and it gets shortened.

 

[Captain_coues]

My 300 WBY, I shoot maybe 50 times a year if that. I like my 270 and 280 and a few others a lot so they go through much more. As far as a load, I can’t help but to try different bullets/powder out as new options show up. I just like to explore and sticking with one formula is boring to me. It’s not too bad because a 270 is usually real good with 4831 and 130 or 140 grain bullets and I have lots of good data on versions of that. The same for the 280. It’s quick and easy to make some if of the proven stuff.

My Varminter rifles, the 224s and 6mms, I do lots of trips to the range. I know sometimes it’s about three or four times a week when the weather is calm, nothing lately due to the cold. I’m not saying it’s a bullet festival each time. Sometimes it’s just two or three 5 shot groups in the early calm morning and then I go to work. Other times it’s more, like when I have the rimfires and other rifles that need shooting.

 

[LorenzJohnPaul5]

Well, the reason I’m hesitant to shoot it “too much” is this is the last group I shot with it. And the two prior groups were just as good/better. (I found something it likes). I’d hate to rebarrel if I can avoid it.

 

[mtmuley]

Well, the reason I’m hesitant to shoot it “too much” is this is the last group I shot with it. And the two prior groups were just as good/better. (I found something it likes). I’d hate to rebarrel if I can avoid it.

View attachment 137805

You don't need to shoot your primary hunting rifle hundreds of times a year. I shoot mine some, but my primary practice rifle is a .222 Remington. Works for me. mtmuley

 

[Chesterwyo]

Well, the reason I’m hesitant to shoot it “too much” is this is the last group I shot with it. And the two prior groups were just as good/better. (I found something it likes). I’d hate to rebarrel if I can avoid it.

View attachment 137805

Looks like a winner. What’s the load?

 

[littlebighorn]

I totally understand what you are saying Mr. John Paul.
I have a 28 Nosler that is death in almost anyone's hands. It consistently shoots .5 MOA groups but I went through lots of different bullet/powder combinations (barrel life) to get it to stack. I also really like to shoot and during off season I go to the range almost every week. Knowing my 28 is a barrel burner, I don't shoot it much because it's a proven hunting machine.
Like others have mentioned, I have 5 other centerfires that get my range attention, just for fun.
I also load my own ammo, and I worry about cold weld issues if my ammo sits dormant too long, but then I probably worry too much!

 

[Chesterwyo]

I totally understand what you are saying Mr. John Paul.
I have a 28 Nosler that is death in almost anyone's hands. It consistently shoots .5 MOA groups but I went through lots of different bullet/powder combinations (barrel life) to get it to stack. I also really like to shoot and during off season I go to the range almost every week. Knowing my 28 is a barrel burner, I don't shoot it much because it's a proven hunting machine.
Like others have mentioned, I have 5 other centerfires that get my range attention, just for fun.
I also load my own ammo, and I worry about cold weld issues if my ammo sits dormant too long, but then I probably worry too much!

Cold weld is a definite worry. Had a can of 5.56 plinking ammo that sat for years. The brass was cleaned with stainless pins. Shot the first one, and the 55 grain FMJ read 3500 FPS across the chronograph, and it locked the gun up. Suspecting cold weld I ran them all back through the seating die and seated them all a thousandth deeper, you could hear the snap of the weld breaking every time. That would be a nightmare scenario if that happened to you on a hunt.

 

[Homer]

Yeah….I think I’m going to disregard my new knowledge of “cold weld”

 

[Chesterwyo]

Anecdotal I know. Had not happened to me before, or since.

 

[Bluehair]

Cold weld is a definite worry. Had a can of 5.56 plinking ammo that sat for years. The brass was cleaned with stainless pins. Shot the first one, and the 55 grain FMJ read 3500 FPS across the chronograph, and it locked the gun up. Suspecting cold weld I ran them all back through the seating die and seated them all a thousandth deeper, you could hear the snap of the weld breaking every time. That would be a nightmare scenario if that happened to you on a hunt.

Ok, I’ll bite.

I’m assuming that the 3500 is a couple hunnert higher than expected. So my question is how would increased neck tension increase velocity?

I sure hope this cold weld thing didn’t just render half my arsenal obsolete. I’m with Homer….I have enough superstitions already.

 

[Chesterwyo]

Copy and paste of the explanation from a metallurgist

Actually, bullets can indeed weld themselves to cases. It is a quite well-documented phenomenon, an example of diffusion bonding. Diffusion bonding has industrial applications too - I've done some work with these. You really just need two pieces of material of fairly similar composition (such as a gilding metal jacket and a cartridge brass case neck) in good intimate contact without anything between them (ie both nice and clean), a bit of time. Temperature also helps, but it is a solid-state process. Atoms essentially wander about, and end up crossing the boundary (if conditions are right) and taking up positions in the crystal lattice of the other piece. If enough atoms do this the boundary becomes sufficiently blurred to make quite a good bond. It is not a corrosion process."

 

[Wyosam]

I have two identical (aside from barrels) rifles. Actually have a variety of barrels that get swapped in and out. My primary hunter is in 280ai, which is also a carbon wrapped barrel that I’d rather not replace. That one doesn’t get shot much any more, aside from confirming zero and hunting. I shoot the piss out of the others. Generally 1k-1500 a year out of various hunting cartridges (6.5-284, 7-08AI, 338-284, 6.5cm, 243) from those two and a third hunting rifle (257 Rob improved). About the same amount to a little more out of more target oriented guns.

You should be shooting something similar (identical ideally) to your hunting rifle a bunch to make the most of that 300wm that is clearly a shooter.

 

[Bluehair]

Copy and paste of the explanation from a metallurgist

Actually, bullets can indeed weld themselves to cases. It is a quite well-documented phenomenon, an example of diffusion bonding. Diffusion bonding has industrial applications too - I've done some work with these. You really just need two pieces of material of fairly similar composition (such as a gilding metal jacket and a cartridge brass case neck) in good intimate contact without anything between them (ie both nice and clean), a bit of time. Temperature also helps, but it is a solid-state process. Atoms essentially wander about, and end up crossing the boundary (if conditions are right) and taking up positions in the crystal lattice of the other piece. If enough atoms do this the boundary becomes sufficiently blurred to make quite a good bond. It is not a corrosion process."

That explains the neck tension, which I get.

I’m asking how velocity increases (if that’s what you were saying). I suppose the corollary question is how much case pressure is required to overcome the increased neck tension.

I don’t see where the slight possible increase in chamber pressure would change the burn characteristics of the propellant and create additional velocity. If that was the case every crackpot velocity junky would be inventing case tensioning dies.

We might also be talking about two completely different things. In that case just ignore me.

I just sunk some bullets a little deeper the other day. They were recent reloads and they “popped” like they were stuck.

 

[Homer]

…obviously the pessure build before the bullet starts moving would increases velocity….to some extent

 

[Cahunter805]

Hi,

So after load work up and all, I have my hunting rifle shooting like I want. Question is-how often do you all shoot your gun(s) after load work up?

Other than 5-10 shots a year to site in again, right? Your done?

A 300win barrel will last 1200-1500 rounds easily if you don’t shoot huge strings of shots. Keep the barrel heat down and it will last.
You could shoot 100 rounds a year between practice and hunting and have it last 15 years. Replacing a barrel isn’t terribly expensive either.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Put it in the safe. Pull it out every few months and just throw a few through it to make sure it’s on. Don’t clean until accuracy drops. Or if you hunt with it out in the rain. Then shoot after cleaning. I have a couple that I have not cleaned in 4 years. Just run a dry patch through it now and then. Others loose accuracy after 20 shots and one takes about 10 to 15 rounds after a scrubbing.

Now here is the important part. Go buy another rifle of a different caliber and work up a load

 

[Bluehair]

…obviously the pessure build before the bullet starts moving would increases velocity….to some extent

I’m not ready to credit neck tension with velocity increases.

I can see how chamber pressures might have a tiny spike for a nanosecond, but once the projectile starts moving it drops again UNTIL it hits the lands. That’s when the real friction starts, and I’m in the camp that barrel friction FAR exceeds the infinitesimal force of neck tension.

And how much case pressure does it take to get the bullet moving anyway - 50, 500, 5000, or 50,000 psi? Whatever the number it blew by the tensile strength of brass before the primer is done burning.

I don’t think the science on this is settled. Oddly, this seems to be one of the few ballistic riddles that isn’t buried with 10,000 pages of gun nut nerdism. But I maintain that if neck tension increased velocity, there would be an entire product line around neck tensioning tools.

Carry on.

 

[Weiserbucks]

But I maintain that if neck tension increased velocity, there would be an entire product line around neck tensioning tools.

Not necessarily for velocity, but there is an entire product line around neck tensioning tools.

 

[Cahunter805]

Not necessarily for velocity, but there is an entire product line around neck tensioning tools.

+1. Neck tension definitely is a great way to tune a load also. It does effect velocity a small amount.

 

[Homer]

I’m not ready to credit neck tension with velocity increases.

I can see how chamber pressures might have a tiny spike for a nanosecond, but once the projectile starts moving it drops again UNTIL it hits the lands. That’s when the real friction starts, and I’m in the camp that barrel friction FAR exceeds the infinitesimal force of neck tension.

And how much case pressure does it take to get the bullet moving anyway - 50, 500, 5000, or 50,000 psi? Whatever the number it blew by the tensile strength of brass before the primer is done burning.

I don’t think the science on this is settled. Oddly, this seems to be one of the few ballistic riddles that isn’t buried with 10,000 pages of gun nut nerdism. But I maintain that if neck tension increased velocity, there would be an entire product line around neck tensioning tools.

Carry on.

Great point about the free bore area....probably why 99.9% of us will never experience it......I think most bench resters have the bullet pushed right into the lands at ignition....maybe?

 

[Bluehair]

Not necessarily for velocity, but there is an entire product line around neck tensioning tools.

Around consistent tension - not to increase it to get an immaterial increase in velocity.

I’m not saying neck tension isn’t important for accuracy. But I don’t find any actual data confirming the relationship between neck tension and muzzle velocity.

 

[Bluehair]

Great point about the free bore area....probably why 99.9% of us will never experience it......I think most bench resters have the bullet pushed right into the lands at ignition....maybe?

And before the internet when we did sporty things on our own, a few of us have even have experience with that little vent hole in the action. It wasn’t a neck tension thing.

 

[Weiserbucks]

Around consistent tension - not to increase it to get an immaterial increase in velocity.

I’m not saying neck tension isn’t important for accuracy. But I don’t find any actual data confirming the relationship between neck tension and muzzle velocity.

I never said it was for velocity. Neck turning tools, bushing dies and mandrels exist to adjust and or uniform neck tension. It's not front page news that neck tension can have a large impact on accuracy in precision rifles.

Bubba Fudd has no use for any of it and couldn't shoot a small group if you gave him a competitive BR rifle.

 

[Bluehair]

I never said it was for velocity. Neck turning tools, bushing dies and mandrels exist to adjust and or uniform neck tension. It's not front page news that neck tension can have a large impact on accuracy in precision rifles.

Bubba Fudd has no use for any of it and couldn't shoot a small group if you gave him a competitive BR rifle.

I was just fixating on the possibility of a velocity increase and the pressure spike.

I recently started loading up a bunch of old ‘06 military brass and read somewhere (Sierra?) that loads should be reduced because the thicker brass raises pressures. If we truly have a direct correlation between pressure and velocity, I should be able to see it. That’s my project for this summer.

It’s been a loooong time since I got my calculator out, but my guess is that there is a lot more force required to get the projectile up to 180,000 rpm’s in the first few inches than required to overcome neck tension.

 

[Homer]

....I wonder if cold weld is what caused all that 1945 manufactured 50 bmg ammo I fired to totally flatten the primers....??...hmmmmm

 

[mtmuley]

I was just fixating on the possibility of a velocity increase and the pressure spike.

I recently started loading up a bunch of old ‘06 military brass and read somewhere (Sierra?) that loads should be reduced because the thicker brass raises pressures. If we truly have a direct correlation between pressure and velocity, I should be able to see it. That’s my project for this summer.

It’s been a loooong time since I got my calculator out, but my guess is that there is a lot more force required to get the projectile up to 180,000 rpm’s in the first few inches than required to overcome neck tension.

The thicker brass reduces case capacity. That's why loads should be reduced. mtmuley

 

[Chesterwyo]

I was just fixating on the possibility of a velocity increase and the pressure spike.

I recently started loading up a bunch of old ‘06 military brass and read somewhere (Sierra?) that loads should be reduced because the thicker brass raises pressures. If we truly have a direct correlation between pressure and velocity, I should be able to see it. That’s my project for this summer.

It’s been a loooong time since I got my calculator out, but my guess is that there is a lot more force required to get the projectile up to 180,000 rpm’s in the first few inches than required to overcome neck tension.

I don’t think anyone can refute that pressure and velocity are mutually exclusive.

 

[Murr]

What is the stupid Fudd reference I've been seeing thrown around? mtmuley

Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt.
"See sonny, all those pistols in that cabinet... all thems is good for is killin people." -Example of ignorant comment from a fudd at a local gun shop.

 

[Homer]

well hell....posted twice gets my attention....