Whats up with the 37A elk?

[BlueMountainAdventures]

Hey folks. BESIDES the wolves, anyone seen the dramatic elk decline in 37/37A? bull/cow ratio seems down too. Anyone else notice this?

 

[BucksBullsandBroncs]

Ya, its not good. Blame it on the wolves, they are thick as mice up there. I didn't see a single bull all last hunting season in 37. Nothing with antlers. We jumped two cow/calf herds on the very last day. Hadn't seen elk all year up until then. When I say 'jumped' I mean they were at least a mile away from us. We spotted them through our spotting scope. Never could get on them. I'm not hunting 37 this coming fall. Not enough elk for the number of tags they give out.
Wait until Gemjake see's this post.. he'll say there are elk all over up there and he personally knows of several 'big' bulls that were taken out of 37 this last year... hahaha.

 

[BlueMountainAdventures]

Wow..not good! Idaho is no longer going to be known as a elk hunting state. Its going to be known as the once was, until the wolves showed up. IDF&G is soooo behind the curve on wildlife management!!!!
Its almost too late to save the elk and deer herds in the state of Idaho.

 

[gemstatejake]

I know of two pretty nice bulls......one from 37 and one from 37A.

Keep bawling about wolves, etc...........Lack of pressure from hunters discouraged by what they read on this site helps me hang my tag on a bull every year. Appreciate all the Help!

 

[BucksBullsandBroncs]

Lets see those pics of them big boy's.
Your in the dark if you think for one second the wolves are not having a monster impact on the Elk herds up there.
Lack of pressure from hunters? Not hardly. Increased pressure from wolves affecting the hunting quality and number of Elk is the issue at hand. Hearing them and seeing the wolves EVERY day up there is not a problem? Come on.

 

[gemstatejake]

I'm not in the dark......nor did I ever say wolves are not having an impact. I sure as hell don't want them there or anywhere else in our state. Am I going to throw my hands in the air and quit just because there are wolves in most of our hunting areas now? HELL NO! I do quite a bit of hunting right in the middle of two packs, and so far they hav'nt stopped me and my group from being succesful.
I guess I'm just lucky cuz of all the trips I took this year, I had company from other hunters exactly one time. This is a common theme for me every year. I rarely am bothered by other hunters. It blows my mind, particularly elk hunting cuz its not terribly difficult to get up where the elk are. and there are always other camps below. I think they sit around, drink beer, and ##### about wolves........Same guys who sat around, and bitched about whatever before the wolves ever got here. They are another obstacle to overcome.....They are making it more difficult but if you try you still have a good chance at killing a bull in both genral and contolled units. I hunted from south central to northern Idaho this past season.....saw elk in all those areas several times. Wolves are hurting us no doubt, but the total gloom and doom passed off here is bull$hit.

I have pics of one of the bulls from your neck of the woods....not gonna post them, they're not mine to post.

 

[BlueMountainAdventures]

I dont doubt your pics...at all. I know of a few bulls in the 370s in that area. but over all numbers are WAY down!

 

[IDdesertman]

Jake, I don't often agree with you on stuff you post, but have to agree with you on this one. Alot(not all) of the guys that b!tch about wolves are the same guys that b!tched about mtn. lions 10 years ago, or anything else they could because they didn't kill their bull that year. And yes, they are the same guys that get discouraged if they don't see a bull in 2 days of hunting and start drinking beer around the campfire(i'm friends with plenty of them). Of all the claims of herds that were "wiped out" 5 years ago, I'd sure like to know what all those wolves are eating?? Folks act like their unit has 50 wolves and only 10 elk(and it's been that way for years?)

I wish there weren't wolves in this state just like most hunters, but I can only hear the same wolf argument so many times before I just have to say to heck with it and go hunting.

 

[IDdesertman]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-25-09 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]'''

 

[madmoose]

drew bull tag for 37 last fall.. not successful. hunted grouse mt. area. what elk were still in the area were in the drainage just south of sheep pen basin, but out on the valley floor just south of the grouse cr. road on private ground supposedly owned by a verizon ceo, with private airstrip was nearly 100 head of elk spending day a night there. some truly huge bulls in there and plenty of them. but there was absolutely no reason for them to leave.. plenty of really good eating a little bit of cover , the river running through all the while there getting a nice sprinkler shower while they lie there in the sun. kinda hard humpin' up and down those steep mountains looking for elk, and just finding sign that might have been left there since lewis and clark all the while a ton of elk are just a few miles away basking on private ground. beautiful country down there though.that was just my experience. didnt see any wolves but did see 2 coyotes, bunch of chukars, a couple of mulies, and some pronghorn.

 

[gemstatejake]

Moose, I've never hunted the unit, but word for word I've heard the exact same story from guys I've spoken with who have hunted it.................

 

[madmoose]

Gem, i was pretty jacked on getting the tag. i've hunted down the lemhi before and really liked it. so i though moving over another valley couldn't hurt.just a little disappointed with the area. i'll take the lemhi over the pashemeroi anyday. or even up here in the panhandle. i'm sure other folks have diff. thoughts and outcomes thats just my own experience.

 

[Idahoron]

37, 37A, 51, and many others in this state have tanked. I had a Bull tag in 51 this year. I saw about 80 head of elk. I saw 12 small bulls total for a week of hunting. While some would say man that is a great hunt, I say not hardly. About 10 years ago, a guy could see 500 elk or more in a week. And the bulls were as big as you could hold out for, now a big bull is sub 300 BC. I have had cow tags there for every year that I didn't have bull tags, and I got an elk every year I have wanted one. I can tell you for a fact that the elk populations are in the $hitter. Habitat has not changed one bit. The only thing that has changed is the wolves. The cow tags are being slashed and for a reason populations are down. The huge numbers of elk we had in the past are gone. Yes a guy can still find a spot that he might get a good bull. That doesn't make it a fantastic time to be an elk hunter. One or two guys shooting 300 class bulls does not make the whole zone a great place to hunt.
I have not put a tag on a bull in there for the last two times I have drawn, about 9 years. I could have, but I could not bring my self to shoot a bull less than 350 the first time and the last time I drew I never saw a bull even close to 300. The quality of bulls is dropping. Why some might say. Well older bigger bulls in the area tend to hang out together. Those bulls shun the idea of HUGE herds. They like to be on their own. Wolves have clued in to that. The big older bulls are beat down from breeding, and from running from hunters both four legged and two. These bulls also tend to be in the higher country in deeper snow. The wolves have worked them over. Now guys can say I am just a whiner, that is fine. You can have the zone all to your self?s. I am through with competing with wolves. When the state is allowed to open a hunt and we are allowed to take wolves I might be back. Until then I will go other places with less wolves. When that plays out I will have to think about out of state. Ron

 

[BucksBullsandBroncs]

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

 

[trlrtrsh]

Well it has been interesting to listen in on these posts and don't mind if I share an experience I had this 2008 season... Draws came out mid summer and of course I didn't draw (haven't for over ten years) so decided to hunt general again in my regular area...opening morning found 2 pickups and 4 atvs (total of 16 guys) not including me and my long time buddy parked atop our honey hole. They claimed they had been hunting it for years (well I called bs since I have been parked there opening day for 17 yrs) got to talkin and found out this was their first year there...the reason for them being there was because this is the first year they hadn't drawn for a tag in their honey hole....they were discouraged (for the very same reasons as being spoken of here) ...decided to go find new ground ...and ended up here..that morning 8 bucks were taken within 30 minutes by that party of 16 strangers..the biggest being a small 2x3...why do I share this...because if we as hunters get discouraged and look to other areas...we as hunters become the primary competition of why idfg won't do anything for us...their standard has been help those who help others...but if we sit and piss about the fact we don't have a place to hunt for a season we blame others. Maybe if we decided that if we didn't draw a tag for this season...spent our energy and time on a camera and video camera...we could have more evidence to show idfg what's the main cause of our declining herds. Take a season off..appreciate we have hunting period...and do a little research ourselves to help prove our views...long story short that day I realized it was the idfg who sent them to my area simply because the management of the draw system...if hunter a didn't draw a tag he will start asking around about the second chance areas...when they find out some info on a new area and draw a second chance tag...they end up in hunter b's turf...all the while new guys are hunting hunter a's area because the same thing has happened to them (discouragement)...when hunter a returns a few years later after getting some simple satisfaction from a new area and finds his old area crawling with competition (humans and predators)...he blames idfg for the problem...and idfg don't care...they just snagged $ from the weiners who didn't have the patience to go out and research their honey hole to help manage it for the next season...(that's why some of us can still come away with animals every season regardless of human or animal competition...by the way....we snagged 2 decent 25" bucks the third week into this season at our honey hole...so do your homework in your fav spot...help yourself and don't rely on someone else to solve your problems

 

[BucksBullsandBroncs]

If I can't hunt elk in 37, I'm not hunting Elk at all. Thats just it. I spend my summers up in that country because I enjoy it. I hunt it because I enjoy it up their, not nessisarly because it is great elk hunting, which it is not. Our odds of taking an elk up there are small, but we love to hike and see the country.
I actually got into it with a group of dirtbikers up in 37 this last summer. I stopped the truck by the road infront of there camp.. they had alot of dirtbikes around. Now, my thinking is, what in the hell are they doing up here. There are no atv trails, it has a gob of atv restrictions, ect. What the hell? I come up here to relax, hear the birds and the water and these punks are in this country riding? Why?
So a bald punk looking guy comes storming out of the camper and the first thing he says is 'got a problem'?
Now, I'm thinking 'F-U bud', what the hell you doing here. Then I thought, What!? This dude walks out and the first thing he says is 'got a problem'!?!?
Typical dirtbiker attitude! Now my blood is boiling!
My buddy jumps in and says, 'have you seen a green pickup?' (just to cover my ass from a ##### storm of furry.)
The bald guy said 'nope'.
Buddy said 'oh, we are looking for a green chevy, a friend of ours'.
Now were we looking for a green pickup.. no.
We have been hunting and camping up there for years and years. Never had we seen something like this and we are thinking, crap, what did they tear up?! and why the hell are they here.

Well, they tore up plenty. Road all over gods green earth. Needless to say we were pissed by the time we left. They had 8B plates.. Bonniville county. But thats all we got. Lord only knows what would have happend had we run into them screaming up a mountain side. For their sake, I'm glad we didn't see them do it, but we sure saw where they had been.
And to have them riding around while we were relaxing... it would have been a fight. Luckly they left after our conversation.
What a nightmare of a situation that could have been.
If the ATVer's move into 37-37A.. the ##### will hit the fan. I will not put up with that crap up there and neither should anyone else. Those units are known for horse or hike hunting. Not ATV hunting. Hell, you can't even ride your ATV during the light hours in those units.
My bad, just venting! I hope to hell we don't see that crap again this next summer.

 

[deepforks]

you cant blame, or get mad at hunters moving to other areas to find game. hell, ive got 4 areas spread out that i sometimes rotate when i have bad years. cant expect guys to take a year off to scout either. i agree that fish and game needs to really step it up in a lot of areas as well. it would be nice if everyone banned together and REALLY made some valid arguments to fish and game about issues that need addressed. is this going to happen? probably not. people are going to complain and keep doing what they normally do every year. im guilty of this too. i sure as hell dont have all the answers. i run into wolves more and more but im going to keep hunting. i run into more and more hunters but thats not going to make me stop. atv's....i own one, but agree too many people are mis-using them. lets face it, its not like it used to be. im not even that old, and have seen a dramatic change since i started hunting.

 

[trlrtrsh]

Deepforks...all I meant to mean was that to truly get idfg to understand we can't beat ourselves...I have two areas I hunt and a dozen others I could go to but the fact is...we need to focus our efforts on helping build our herds by not going to an area just to drop a little forky for meat...the idfg have tons of areas to meat hunt..our doe and cow herds aren't struggling too bad...its the buck and bull ratio that's being affected...summer scouting in your areas will determine which tag to put in for...just making a quick choice will cost you lots of gas and undetermined finds...I'm just not a fan of let's roam the state and shoot anything that moves..hunting is more than that to me

 

[deepforks]

dont get me wrong. i dont roam the state either. i agree with you. but i also know people that dont care and are out to just kill anything. not just for killing sake...meat hunters.

 

[trlrtrsh]

That's great...I just hope we as individuals can express this same knowledge to the idfg so that we don't have any of those guys...ie controlled tags in more units ...less hunting time

 

[trlrtrsh]

And by controlled tags I mean meat tags and trophy tags...you know as well as I do when a hunter decides whether he needs meat or not...and an old buck is only good for jerky and hamburger

 

[elk_horn]

so because my honey hole isnt looking good I should not hunt that year?????? I didnt think anybody owned their honey holes...I'll hunt where my permit is good for.

 

[trlrtrsh]

Listen....hunt wherever the hell you want...just don't ##### when you find someone or more on your turf shooting your game not because of something I did but something I didn't do then I guess...and you are the only one who can determine if your honey hole is good or not...not me...just a suggestion for you to shoot trophy game...unless you want to look at dinks hangin in your garage ...btw are the wolves in your area? Or do you hunt unit 37?