When is Wyoming G&F going to manage for trophy deer

[30Hart]

Simply, when is Wyoming G&F going to manage for trophy deer and develop a couple of limited areas like Arizona, Colorado, or Utah? Are the current initiatives a start in the right direction?

 

[wyo_bulls]

well there are a "couple" areas in the state that have limited tags issued, and some trophy deer come out of them, not many. But I am afraid that Wyoming is managed for opportunity and not trophies. And as much as I hate to say it, they will never manage this state for trophies in ways the states do that you mentioned. Is all about number of tags given out which turns that into money going into their department. But I sure wish they would select a few more areas and turn them into a limited draw area and put some age on these deer, as the genetics are here in the state, just not age.

 

[30Hart]

Well said Wyo_bulls. Now I think 78,79,80 and 81 are going limited entry next year for 3 years and then they'll reevaluate...that is if the management plan goes through. I agree, I'm not asking for all the areas to be managed that way just a few of the better ones. The problem is as I see it, they get a good limited entry area and then the numbers of tags either stay the same or go up regardless of winterkill. I'd like to see the tags reduced on some of the better areas. I'd rather wait and get a better tag later down the road.

 

[Zim]

>Simply, when is Wyoming G&F going
>to manage for trophy deer
>and develop a couple of
>limited areas like Arizona, Colorado,
>or Utah? Are the
>current initiatives a start in
>the right direction?

I hear Wharff is formulating a plan right now, involving improving things. But it will take a lot of auction tags of course, taken from the regular draw. Multiple bills should be introduced very soon.

 

[G14]

30Hart,

Where did you get the info in 78,79, 80, and 81 going limited, and will it be this year?


Hey Zim,

Maybe you should look at my post regarding where auction tags go, before you continue to pop off. The SFW "pop off" at every single post on these forums is getting old. No one even mention SFW. If this was a SFW post then I would have no problem with you saying anything you wish for or against SFW.

 

[chadderbox]

I'm just curious when hunting became about trophies? If that's the case then should it all be auctioned? Hunting only for the rich? Don't get me wrong, I want the biggest critter out there possible. But my kid is happy putting a tag on anything she can get. When does the management come back on the hunter? I haven't shot a mulie in 4 years. My family runs a plant in Douglas and sometimes it amazes me what comes through there, but the hunter is proud of his "trophy"... I like hunting every year, that's why I live here!!! And I put in for the limited draw and then general... So there are some limited draw areas already... With the poor winters, disease and predators some changes need to be weighed in.

 

[30Hart]

G14,
Form the "Draft Platte Valley Mule Deer Herd Initiative
Management Plan" which is available on WGFD Website @ http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/wildlife-1000398.aspx

Chadderbox,
Cant agree more about what you said about opportunity, my daughter is the same way. I just wonder if there's room for balance. I'm not asking for more trophy deer areas in Wyoming. I would just like Fish and Game to manage a select few better that's all. Take area 102 for example, tags remainded at the same level (400) regardless of winterkill or declining quality. Fish and Game says 102 is managed for opportunity, not quality. I'd like to see it managed for quality not quantity (just an example). The crux would be say if Fish and Game had one area like the Henry's in Utah then wouldn't all the conservation tag/governor tag holders flood it anyways and we'd just be catering to the rich...I just don't know the answer.

 

[Triple_BB]

Been a lot of folks whining about deer quality in Wyoming as of late. Funny though, doesn't seem to be as much bit-ching about trophy quality in some of the other western states like Idaho, Montana, and New Mexico. What'r those State G & F agencies doing to produce trophy quality deer that keeps folks satisfied. I bet if we could get the State of WY to implement a non rezi draw system like Idaho or Montana and then jack up resident prices, we could improve trophy quality. I'd support it...

 

[30Hart]

I think Montana muley trophy quality is way down in the general areas, but having lived there for 6 years and hunted it for 12 years we've come to accept it. Besides I go to Monatana to hunt whitetails and I have no complaints. As an out of stater for Wyoming I pay almost double for better drawing odds so what is a couple hundred more dollars for better quality. I lived in Wyoming for 4 years and know what its capable of producing on the deer front. I'd just like to see it return to that and get a little better in certain areas...

 

[G14]

30Hart, Thanks for the link.

It blows my mind it will remain general for the 2012 season when they know they have such a gigantic problem. At least put an antler restriction of 3 point or better for 2012 to reduce the number of yearling bucks being shot, and then go into limited quota in 2013. It is good to see them starting to act, but why did it take so long and why is it taking so long to implement ideas. There are ideas in the initiative that can be immediately implemented, this year, right now! If I found out I had cancer I wouldn't wait a year to start my medical treatment.

 

[mmwb]

As stated, it is managed for opportunity not trophies. I believe that is representative of the average resident hunter's priorities. I don't have a problem with that, but in areas where the herd is suffering the most, no doubt restrictions need to be in place or opportunity will be lost.

 

[Zim]

G14, I get the impression you thought I was being sarcastic or something. Sorry but I was not. You should see the first bill from Wharff hit the floor within 2 months. These will be new auction tags, in addition to the commissioner tags.

 

[ColoradoOak]

>30Hart, Thanks for the link.
>
>It blows my mind it will
>remain general for the 2012
>season when they know they
>have such a gigantic problem.
>At least put an antler
>restriction of 3 point or
>better for 2012 to reduce
>the number of yearling bucks
>being shot, and then go
>into limited quota in 2013.
>It is good to see
>them starting to act, but
>why did it take so
>long and why is it
>taking so long to implement
>ideas. There are ideas
>in the initiative that can
>be immediately implemented, this year,
>right now! If I found
>out I had cancer I
>wouldn't wait a year to
>start my medical treatment.

Directly from the draft plan:

Because the packet establishing the 2012 general license seasons is already published, the Department will propose a conservative general license antlered deer only season. During the 2012 season setting process, the Department will seek additional public input regarding the proposed shift to limited quota starting with the 2013 season.

 

[piper]

Thats only for the Platte River herds, The rest of the state will be OTC for the forseeable future, my Problem is with the Greys river herds, those deer have poor winter habitat, and great summer range, so the herd numbers vary greatly over time, plus they have the best genetics in the state for nice antlers.
Unlimited resident tags, lots of nonresident tags and early seasons are piss poor ways to manage a remarkable resource like that.

For this year Its not too late to change things like numbers of nonresident tags, season closing dates, and antler point restrictions, start making noise now, I am.

 

[SMOKESTICK]

As a matter of fact, I am Wharff. Don't know Zim, but I am working on formulating a plan; however, my plan is nothing like he infers. I would prefer to avoid the quota system but something needs to be done, in part, to address impacts of harvest. I want to find a way to allow us all to hunt but develop a way for us to either self-regulate our harvest. I do believe that most hunters are concerned about mule deer populations and the Department is starting to realize that doing the same thing and expecting a different out come is not working. If sportsmen can get on the same page, I believe we can see some substantial changes implemented by the department.

To answer the questions asked by 30Hart; at the last WY G&F Commission meeting, the department mentioned that they would start taking whether an area is managed for recreational purposes or for quality purposes to the public. As some know, in the past, the department has made that decision without public input and it has been somewhat internal. It now appears as though they will be taking that out when they begin season setting meetings, etc. They also mentioned that they will begin using a different population model to calculate population objectives. It sounded as though they were going to use either the Colorado model or one slightly modified for Wyoming.

 

[30Hart]

Thanks for the info...good to know.

 

[Cozmo8]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-12 AT 05:00PM (MST)[p]When it is taken to the public the public will say we want bigger bucks but we want to be able to hunt every year. Idaho took it to the public several years ago and this is the feedback they received. The reason Mt runs a liberal season is because the majority of hunters want to hunt the Thanksgiving weekend with their family because it is a "tradition". I thinks there needs to be a balance. Right now Idaho is trying this in every region they have a "high demand unit" with conservative harvest, 'high opportunity" units with high harvest and units in between. The average hunter wants to hunt every year.

 

[G14]

"Because the packet establishing the 2012 general license seasons is already published, the Department will propose a conservative general license antlered deer only season."

"In July 2011, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department (WGFD) implemented a process, the Platte Valley Mule Deer Initiative (PVMDI), to increase public involvement in the management direction of the Platte Valley mule deer herd."

They thought they had a problem so they "implemented a process", but they can't get a process implemented faster than 2 years and 2 months, because a packet was printed. People wonder why the deer hunting is poor in Wyoming, because we have packets printed...WAFJ.

 

[SSakitas]

The wyoming game and fish are so worried about loosing opportunity for hunters that they refuse to put G and H on limited quota for residents. In my opinion its a very simple fix when it comes to limiting resident hunting pressure for G and H. 1st thing the wyoming Game fish need to do is survey every wyoming resident that bought muledeer tags in wyoming and ask them if they hunted G and H. Once they get an Idea of the exact number of residents that hunted in G and H. I dont know how many but for an example lets just say 7,000 residents hunted in G and H. They then can decide how many tags to cut back, say they decide to cut it down to only 2,000 resident tags. They then make those 2,000 resident tags only good in G and H and sell them 1st come 1st serve like the antelope doe fawn permits. the remaining 5,000 people that did not get a tag for G or H could still hunt deer in wyoming just not in G or H. You would still be letting people hunt deer every year but limiting the amount of hunters in an area that is hurting really bad. But of course the Wyoming game and fish would never Think outside the box and do something like this. They would rather do the same thing they always do when it comes to deer managment and expect a miracle of god. While our deer herds go down the toilet

 

[piper]

they are getting sensitive, so now is the time to make noise, In my opinion the first thing to do is cut the nonresident tag numbers in G and H, and that can be done this year, second is push them to raise resident tag fees.

 

[TOPGUN]

piper---Even as a NR I can't disagree with your suggestion of cutting tags this year to start getting hunter numbers under control if those regions are the zoo that everybody says they are. The caviat would be that next year the Resident numbers would also be cut in some way in those regions. Ways to do that might be to put all or parts into LQ tags or possibly having a couple shorter seasons and require that the tag holder only be able to hunt one time period. That would at least spread out the pressure and allow for more of a quality hunt from the hunter numbers standpoint alone and not seeing as much orange all over the landscape.

 

[mightyhunter]

A few statistics from the Wyoming Game and Fish for 2010 deer harvest in G and H that may cast some light on this. Some say cut non-resident tags and others say limit resident tags. Bear in mind that harvest reporting in Wyoming for deer is not mandatory. Also remember that many nonresidents hunt with guides which should improve success.

Unit 144 in region G is a popular area for resident and non resident hunters. These are the statistics for harvest:

Resident Hunters: 682 hunters took 188 deer for a 28% kill
Non Resident Hunters: 295 hunters took 153 deer for a 52% kill
So half as many non resident hunters took almost the same amount of deer as the residents.

Unit 152 in Region H is a popular area for resident and non resident hunters.This is an area I have hunted extensively and I always run into alot of non-residents hunting here. These are the statistics for harvest:

Resident Hunters: 593 hunters took 173 deer for a 34% kill
Non-Resident Hunters: 298 hunters took 175 deer for a 61% kill
So half as many non resident hunters took more deer than the residents. Interesting.

Maybe Piper is right. Cut back the non-resident deer tags in G&H. That should cut the harvest down. However, that isn't going to happen because of the revenue loss to Game and Fish and to the outfitters who work the area. Raising resident tag fees might compensate for the loss. Sounds to me like a problem that won't get resolved anytime soon.

 

[teamhoyt]

At some point we all have to realize that we can't have our cake and eat it to. I too enjoy hunting every year, BUT(there is always a BUT) I would rather hunt every couple years and have a Quality hunt(meaning oppurtunity, more mature age class of animals, and less people) and have stable deer herds than see our herds continue in this downward spiral and have no deer to hunt in 10 or 15 years. Wyoming has the potential in most areas of the state to produce big deer, to consistantly manage our areas in a manner that somewhat forces people to shoot a small deer seems unjust. There are muliple oppurtunities in this state to hunt and fish and in my mind beef isn't all that expensive if its a matter of killing for food. I do beleive that the exception to limiting hunting oppurtunity is to have a more liberal season for youth hunters with their own season.

 

[nontypical]

+1,teamhoyt.G&F needs to remember what their jobs are:To maintain our herds.They need to make some tough decisions that some people won't agree with.With so many folks complaining about how they manage the herds anyway,why not take a chance and make some drastic changes?Maybe more people would start liking them again in a few years.And if it still doesn't work?Well,most folks already hate G&F anyway,so nothing lost,really.But at least they can say they tried something different!A hunter should be able to kill the deer of their choice-big or small.More of us seasoned(trophy?) hunters need to be a little pickier.Tag soup isn't that bad once you've had a few portions of it!If you need meat,kill a cow elk!We've got so many of those now,you can kill 2 elk a year in many places-including western Wyoming,where the deer need a break.I don't pretend to know the answers.All I can do is suggest what I think will help,just like all the rest of the posters on this thread.One thing for sure,though.What we're doing now ain't workin'...I've never seen so many hunters up in arms about our deer herds.Maybe change is coming.I only hope it's not already too late.

 

[piper]

I would like to see limited quota hunting for residents throughout the state, with plenty of tags in areas where there are plenty of deer, but for this year the only thing that can be done to control hunter numbers is to cut nonresident tags a little.

I have been talking to one of the commissioners and the district G and F supervisor, all I can do is try.

 

[TOPGUN]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but why couldn't the F&G make the residents pick only a certain number of units to hunt that are now under their general license. Couldn't they have sections of the state with those units listed and the resident could only be allowed to pick one of those general areas just like the NR does for a regional or LQ tag? That way if you want to hunt a certain area, but more than just one LQ unit, you could pick that particular regional tag. Each one of those could then have a maximum number of tags issued the way the NR tags are done to spread the pressure out. It doesn't seem that it would be hard to tweak the computer to do that and have everthing for the Residents on a draw. They would still be able to hunt more than one unit if they picked a regional tag, but the tag would no longer cover units throughout the entire state like it does now.

 

[SMOKESTICK]

I really would prefer to avoid obligating the state to go to a quota system for residents. I have known for some time that most of our harvest is predominantly coming from the non-resident side. I believe we can make some pretty good changes and agree that energy is building to make something happen.

I believe in some areas habitat can be a factor; however, with the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Trust, I think money is for projects is no longer the issue. I would like to see more effort to set back plant succession, release or restore healthy aspen stands, interject Forbes and key browse components where they are lacking. Having said that, I believe we must be honest about habitat and stop placing most of the blame on poor habitat.

Three factors I see that must be addressed; impacts of predation on production and recruitment; reduce wildlife/vehicle collisions via increased placement of under/over passes on critical migration corridors; and we must change the current culture of mule deer hunting. A fourth factor could also be added, one which WY SFW has asked for before but to been unsuccessful in obtaining; the establishment of a critical winter feeding program and protocol for when that program will start and end.

I believe, for the most part, sportsmen desire to see our mule deer herds restored. Some are even willing to start imposing either a quota system or even close the season for a few years. To me the first question we all need to ask is: How serious are we when it comes to saving mule populations throughout the west? Are we truly willing to do whatever it takes? In my opinion, state wildlife agencies have spent too much time managing on a macro level. Mule deer have been struggling for far too long and we must demand more from our state wildlife management agencies. I believe sportsmen can take charge of this issue, and based on how we respond to it, will determine if we continue to have maximum hunting opportunities or if we need to rein in opportunities to save mule deer as a species. I believe that Wyoming is fortunate in that we have just over a half a million people residing in our state. Being the 9th largest state with almost 98,000 square miles, we have a lot of open spaces and abundant wildlife populations. I believe we have the best chance to save mule deer for these same reasons. Furthermore, I believe we can fix it without going into a quota system or stopping hunting season for an extended period. As soon as our legislative session (after the first week in March), WY SFW will be hosting meetings across the state. Once I believe we have consensus, I will post something up on MM for those that cannot attend some of our local meetings.

 

[piper]

the problem with not going limited quota is over hunting in certain areas and underhunting in others, plus there is no way to effectively lessen the kill in areas after bad winters and things like that. The Salt River and Wyoming ranges are a mess and limiting the hunters is the only way to fix it.