Who doesn’t love kill shots?

It doesn’t get much more dead than those shots. Even the ‘little far back’ comment was a liver and dead within a minute or two.

Granted, a couple of them had errant shots prior to the kill shot, I edited that out for that reason. Hunters get excited, mistakes happen, it’s rarely perfect. Not one of the bulls in the video went more than 100 yards from point of impact, that’s pretty quick IMO
 
What a great testament to the effectiveness of long range shooting. Thank you for sharing! These guys must all be the 2% long range shooters that Slam speaks of, crazy you were able to guide all of them! I bet they spent hours at the range perfecting their shooting. Nice bulls! What was the closest and farthest shot? Thanks again!
 
berrysblaster said:
It doesn’t get much more dead than those shots. Even the ‘little far back’ comment was a liver and dead within a minute or two.

Granted, a couple of them had errant shots prior to the kill shot, I edited that out for that reason. Hunters get excited, mistakes happen, it’s rarely perfect. Not one of the bulls in the video went more than 100 yards from point of impact, that’s pretty quick IMO
Click to expand...
:p HA! No way did a liver shot kill that elk! I’ve been shooting my liver up for decades and I’m still walking!
 
Bigwiffy said:
What a great testament to the effectiveness of long range shooting. Thank you for sharing! These guys must all be the 2% long range shooters that Slam speaks of, crazy you were able to guide all of them! I bet they spent hours at the range perfecting their shooting. Nice bulls! What was the closest and farthest shot? Thanks again!
Click to expand...
What makes you think these are "long range"?
And what is YOUR description of "long range"?
Anything further than your bow and arrow shoots accurately??
 
slamdunk said:
What makes you think these are "long range"?
And what is YOUR description of "long range"?
Anything further than your bow and arrow shoots accurately??
Click to expand...
A few of them looked far as the bullet arched in. I'm not hating, they were good shots on some nice bulls. That's why I asked how far. Do you know any of these guys shooting Slam, just curious if they are in the top 2% of shooters you keep mentioning. Impressive!
 
Bigwiffy said:
A few of them looked far as the bullet arched in. I'm not hating, they were good shots on some nice bulls. That's why I asked how far. Do you know any of these guys shooting Slam, just curious if they are in the top 2% of shooters you keep mentioning. Impressive!
Click to expand...
Bull 1 750 yards .338 lapua fierce firearms Barnes ttsx 225 gr I think
Bull was hit twice one non lethal, one lethal (double lung)
Hunter struggled with the gun got scoped every time he shot part of that was up hill shot partly because it’s a lightweight cannon.

Bull 2 650 yards gunwerks 28 nosler Berger elite 180? 1 shot shoulder lights out

Bull 3 670 yards 300 win mag 180 grain condor built rifle 2 shots 1 quartering away in bed entrance last rib lethal. 2 shoulder in video also lethal

Bull 4 507 yards 6.5 prc browning hells canyon speed 143 grain eldx Factory 1 shot heart

Bull 5 670 yards 300 win mag browning HC not sure what his load was bull soaked up 5 shots when it was all said and done 1st was lethal. Hunter struggled with caliber IMO. Kicked like a mule.

Bull 6 275-350 yards 300 win mag browning HC factory load can’t remember what multiple shots. Hunter struggled both with rifle and circumstance (bull fever). Busted a leg, gut shot, and kill shot was dead square in the heart. Bull made it 100 yards from initial wound.

Bull 7 500 yards gunwerks 28 nosler 1 shot Berger elite 180 pretty obvious in video outcome

Bull 8 430 yards 6.5 prc browning HCS 143 grain eldx factory 3 shots 2 hits both lethal 1 miss was my fault on the yardage with hunter. Bull travelled 75 yards from initial hit and tipped over. 25 yards after video cut.

I didn’t really want to feed the LR debate, but I feel like this is instructive information.

Some things I feel strongly about:

1. Calibers and energy don’t kill elk. High quality bullets properly placed do.

2. I see significantly less shooting mistakes with smaller calibers.

3. Most hunters (myself included) cannot shoot magnum rifles accurately.

4. A rifle you are comfortable with is more valuable than any amount of custom gun money spent.

Compare those to the justifications we use:

1. smaller calibers 270/6.5/28 etc etc aren’t good enough for elk

2. Big rifles ‘drop them’

3. When mistakes happen you need a magnum to make up for it.

Bottom line, I’ve killed a ton of elk, should crack 100 bulls this year if I’ve counted correctly. Nothing makes me cringe more than a hunter who insists on a large caliber gun. Hunters who show up happy to use my rifles, or with one they are comfortable shooting regardless of caliber squeeze the trigger a whole lot less.
 
Last edited:
berrysblaster said:
Bull 1 750 yards .338 lapua fierce firearms Barnes ttsx 225 gr I think
Bull was hit twice one non lethal, one lethal (double lung)
Hunter struggled with the gun got scoped every time he shot part of that was up hill shot partly because it’s a lightweight cannon.

Bull 2 650 yards gunwerks 28 nosler Berger elite 180? 1 shot shoulder lights out
Bull 3 670 yards 300 win mag 180 grain condor built rifle 2 shots 1 quartering away in bed entrance last rib lethal. 2 shoulder in video also lethal

Bull 4 507 yards 6.5 prc browning hells canyon speed 143 grain eldx Factory 1 shot heart

Bull 5 670 yards 300 win mag browning HC not sure what his load was bull soaked up 5 shots when it was all said and done 1st was lethal. Hunter struggled with caliber IMO. Kicked like a mule.

Bull 6 275-350 yards 300 win mag browning HC factory load can’t remember what multiple shots. Hunter struggled both with rifle and circumstance (bull fever). Busted a leg, gut shot, and kill shot was dead square in the heart. Bull made it 100 yards from initial wound.

Bull 7 500 yards gunwerks 28 nosler 1 shot Berger elite 180 pretty obvious in video outcome

Bull 8 430 yards 6.5 prc browning HCS 143 grain eldx factory 3 shots 2 hits both lethal 1 miss was my fault on the yardage with hunter. Bull travelled 75 yards from initial hit and tipped over. 25 yards after video cut.

I didn’t really want to feed the LR debate, but I feel like this is instructive information.

Some things I feel strongly about:

1. Calibers and energy don’t kill elk. High quality bullets properly placed do.

2. I see significantly less shooting mistakes with smaller calibers.

3. Most hunters (myself included) cannot shoot magnum rifles accurately.

4. A rifle you are comfortable with is more valuable than any amount of custom gun money spent.

Compare those to the justifications we use:

1. smaller calibers 270/6.5/28 etc etc aren’t good enough for elk

2. Big rifles ‘drop them’

3. When mistakes happen you need a magnum to make up for it.

Bottom line, I’ve killed a ton of elk, should crack 100 bulls this year if I’ve counted correctly. Nothing makes me cringe more than a hunter who insists on a large caliber gun. Hunters who show up happy to use my rifles, or with one they are comfortable shooting regardless of caliber squeeze the trigger a whole lot less.
Click to expand...
All the shots except 6 and possibly 8 were too far.
You can justify them all you want but they are too far.

That bolded statement is interesting.
 
elkantlers said:
All the shots except 6 and possibly 8 were too far.
You can justify them all you want but they are too far.

That bolded statement is interesting.
Click to expand...
That’s your opinion and moral compass. Nothing wrong with it. You hunt how you want to hunt and I wholeheartedly support you, I expect the same in return.

I should clarify, the bolded statement is in reference to me guiding hunts. Personally I’ve killed 13 spikes and bulls. I average 5-6 bulls a year as a guide though.
 
berrysblaster said:
That’s your opinion and moral compass. Nothing wrong with it. You hunt how you want to hunt and I wholeheartedly support you, I expect the same in return.

I should clarify, the bolded statement is in reference to me guiding hunts. Personally I’ve killed 13 spikes and bulls. I average 5-6 bulls a year as a guide though.
Click to expand...
Hell yeah, I would shoot elk at over 500 yards across canyon where I hunt, if I had somebody to get them out for me. As it is now I just wait and hope they funnel up canyon to me. It’s quite a sight to watch them do what they do.
 
My guiding elk hunters has been slightly different experiences.
In 26 years with an average of 4 bulls per year, like Berry, I've HELPED put a lot of elk on the ground.

The Outfitter i worked for was strictly private lands, mostly CWMU and Tribal lands.

We had a very strict policy of "you draw blood, that's your animal" so we encouraged and practiced as short of range shots as possible.
Very seldom was a bull taken over 300 yards because that is an average and common "PBR" for most calibers.

I'm not saying there weren't bulls killed over 300, I'm just saying is was rare.

Our clients paying 20k for elk didn't take chances at blowing a shot and wounding an animal.
But that was part of the luxury of private lands hunting, there was rarely a need to rush a shot.

If my 2% estimation is low on "LR KILLS", then I am not too proud to assume it is higher if we can determine what is considered long range.
 
Last edited:
berrysblaster said:
I’ve killed a ton of elk, should crack 100 bulls this year if I’ve counted correctly.
Click to expand...

slamdunk said:
My guiding elk hunters has been slightly different experiences.
In 26 years with an average of 4 bulls per year, like Berry, I've put a lot of elk on the ground.
Click to expand...

Do all guides consider the animals they guided clients to as their kills? Isn't this demeaning to the clients?
 
elkantlers said:
You think he's going to show the ones that were wounded and not recovered?
Click to expand...
0 lost. That’s honest. 0. We’ve had a couple wounded bulls, but I know each one and how long it took to verify the bull was not fatally wounded. Anyone who followed my archery hunt this year knows I don’t quit until I’m sure.
 
elkantlers said:
Do all guides consider the animals they guided clients to as their kills? Isn't this demeaning to the clients?
Click to expand...
Why is that demeaning to a client? Good guides certainly play a pretty big role in the kill, do they not? In many cases, the guided hunter really just pulls the trigger. The guide does all the scouting, finds the animal during the hunt, and gets the hunter set up for the shot.

This is part of the reason I choose not to go guided - I want to do all of the work leading up to, during, and after the hunt and not have someone else call the shots for me. If I fail or succeed, it is on me. Some prefer not to do that or don't have the time to do it, and rely on someone else to get it done.
 
berrysblaster said:
0 lost. That’s honest. 0. We’ve had a couple wounded bulls, but I know each one and how long it took to verify the bull was not fatally wounded. Anyone who followed my archery hunt this year knows I don’t quit until I’m sure.
Click to expand...
You've guided to 100 elk and have 0 lost elk?
 
I cannot recall a bull that got wounded, I felt fatally and wasn’t recovered or relocated. I’ve had a few where they got wounded and I tracked/looked till I was sure it wasn’t fatal, or I found the bull alive or dead. I feel like I’ve been lucky honestly.

Had a wound happen last season on the muzz hunt, 50 yard shot. I tracked the bull 1700~yards until he passed thru a narrow gap in some pines and I was able to get a good idea of shot placement via blood smear. Lower front shoulder off side flesh wound. Combined with everything else I knew about the shot and track I feel confident the bull was fine and we continued hunting. It’s a guess, but a good guess IMO. I’ve had those happen, but I’ve never had a gut shot/busted leg gonna die bull that I’ve not been able to chase down and finish.
 
berrysblaster said:
0 lost. That’s honest. 0. We’ve had a couple wounded bulls, but I know each one and how long it took to verify the bull was not fatally wounded. Anyone who followed my archery hunt this year knows I don’t quit until I’m sure.
Click to expand...
“Not fatally wounded”

An animal with a bullet hole in him is not just subject to fatal infection but also prone to be taken by other predators as he’s probably been weakened in some way. How does one verify a wounded animal won’t die or be killed because of that wound.
 
Bigfoot 1 said:
“Not fatally wounded”

An animal with a bullet hole in him is not just subject to fatal infection but also prone to be taken by other predators as he’s probably been weakened in some way. How does one verify a wounded animal won’t die or be killed because of that wound.
Click to expand...
The best outfitters I know all have the same policy. DRAW BLOOD, YOU'RE DONE.
 
elkhunterUT said:
Why is that demeaning to a client? Good guides certainly play a pretty big role in the kill, do they not? In many cases, the guided hunter really just pulls the trigger. The guide does all the scouting, finds the animal during the hunt, and gets the hunter set up for the shot.

This is part of the reason I choose not to go guided - I want to do all of the work leading up to, during, and after the hunt and not have someone else call the shots for me. If I fail or succeed, it is on me. Some prefer not to do that or don't have the time to do it, and rely on someone else to get it done.
Click to expand...
FYIW-
I did have a client I guided, we harvested a 396" 6x6, he paid for the taxidermy and later told me-
"You keep that bull.
All I did was pull the trigger, you did everything else".
 
Bigfoot 1 said:
“Not fatally wounded”

An animal with a bullet hole in him is not just subject to fatal infection but also prone to be taken by other predators as he’s probably been weakened in some way. How does one verify a wounded animal won’t die or be killed because of that wound.
Click to expand...
It’s a fair question. One that has no right answer IMO. I’ve followed wounded bulls over months and years, not literally, but had them show back up after. My opinion is the vast majority of superficial wounds heal naturally. Elk are the toughest critters out there, they don’t die easy. Once I’ve satisfied my moral compass I’m fine continuing. My moral compass is just that though. I wounded a bull on my archery hunt this year. Found him rutting two days later searching for birds or carcass. I’d cut my tag, and was satisfied. Even though the bull was alive and well, I left a broadhead in his chest cavity and for me that meant my hunt was over.
 
berrysblaster said:
It’s a fair question. One that has no right answer IMO. I’ve followed wounded bulls over months and years, not literally, but had them show back up after. My opinion is the vast majority of superficial wounds heal naturally. Elk are the toughest critters out there, they don’t die easy. Once I’ve satisfied my moral compass I’m fine continuing. My moral compass is just that though. I wounded a bull on my archery hunt this year. Found him rutting two days later searching for birds or carcass. I’d cut my tag, and was satisfied. Even though the bull was alive and well, I left a broadhead in his chest cavity and for me that meant my hunt was over.
Click to expand...
Yes sir, but I know for a fact an elk can run 5 miles or so up and down mountains wounded, leaving blood and then not leaving blood and so on and so on. There is no way to track or find an animal like this. Each animal is like each human, different, some will die on the spot after being shot, others will run away and some might even kill you before they die. I’m just drawing off my experience, if it works for you stick with it.
 
slamdunk said:
Need to be careful of our wording on here, these guys are ultra sensitive!?
Click to expand...
And for Gods sake make sure you use the appropriate “your/you’re” !!!

Stakes are even higher since the realization that it’s some weird erotic game between homer and outdoor writer to correct it!!
 
I’ve caught THOUSANDS of fish, I have taken friends and family with me fishing over the decades and when they catch one I claim it as I actually caught it. :LOL::ROFLMAO: When it gets off the line I claim it was their fish!
 
berrysblaster said:
Bull 1 750 yards .338 lapua fierce firearms Barnes ttsx 225 gr I think
Bull was hit twice one non lethal, one lethal (double lung)
Hunter struggled with the gun got scoped every time he shot part of that was up hill shot partly because it’s a lightweight cannon.

Bull 2 650 yards gunwerks 28 nosler Berger elite 180? 1 shot shoulder lights out

Bull 3 670 yards 300 win mag 180 grain condor built rifle 2 shots 1 quartering away in bed entrance last rib lethal. 2 shoulder in video also lethal

Bull 4 507 yards 6.5 prc browning hells canyon speed 143 grain eldx Factory 1 shot heart

Bull 5 670 yards 300 win mag browning HC not sure what his load was bull soaked up 5 shots when it was all said and done 1st was lethal. Hunter struggled with caliber IMO. Kicked like a mule.

Bull 6 275-350 yards 300 win mag browning HC factory load can’t remember what multiple shots. Hunter struggled both with rifle and circumstance (bull fever). Busted a leg, gut shot, and kill shot was dead square in the heart. Bull made it 100 yards from initial wound.

Bull 7 500 yards gunwerks 28 nosler 1 shot Berger elite 180 pretty obvious in video outcome

Bull 8 430 yards 6.5 prc browning HCS 143 grain eldx factory 3 shots 2 hits both lethal 1 miss was my fault on the yardage with hunter. Bull travelled 75 yards from initial hit and tipped over. 25 yards after video cut.

I didn’t really want to feed the LR debate, but I feel like this is instructive information.

Some things I feel strongly about:

1. Calibers and energy don’t kill elk. High quality bullets properly placed do.

2. I see significantly less shooting mistakes with smaller calibers.

3. Most hunters (myself included) cannot shoot magnum rifles accurately.

4. A rifle you are comfortable with is more valuable than any amount of custom gun money spent.

Compare those to the justifications we use:

1. smaller calibers 270/6.5/28 etc etc aren’t good enough for elk

2. Big rifles ‘drop them’

3. When mistakes happen you need a magnum to make up for it.

Bottom line, I’ve killed a ton of elk, should crack 100 bulls this year if I’ve counted correctly. Nothing makes me cringe more than a hunter who insists on a large caliber gun. Hunters who show up happy to use my rifles, or with one they are comfortable shooting regardless of caliber squeeze the trigger a whole lot less.
Click to expand...
1 bull of the 8 was possibly under 300 yards? As a guide are you more comfortable with your clients shooting 500+? Just curious if you could have got closer? Maybe you were just confident in them making the shot? Kudos to the shooters, thise are some pokes!
 
Bigwiffy said:
1 bull of the 8 was possibly under 300 yards? As a guide are you more comfortable with your clients shooting 500+? Just curious if you could have got closer? Maybe you were just confident in them making the shot? Kudos to the shooters, thise are some pokes!
Click to expand...
There’s something to be said about the time that a long range shot affords a hunter. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the hunter who had the worst go in those scenarios was also the closest. My worst experiences as a guide have come in close quarter scenarios almost impossible to keep a hunter calm enough to function.

More can go wrong with a LR shot, but generally speaking if your are minding your p’s and q’s you have much more time to pick ‘the shot’ which controls some of the variables.

Again, it’s a guys own personal experience, ethics, and morals that dictate how and what happens in a hunt. I’m probably not the guy to look at when trying to stereotype what a LR guy looks like who just grabbed the rifle thru a turret on it and started winging shots. Lot to be said about going through the same scenario over and over, experience counts for something.
 
damage-1.jpg
 

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