Why are standards flexible?

Tristate

Tristate

Long Time Member
Messages
8,890
Alright fellas I have a question that has been nagging at me for a while.

Why do most of the posters on here let their standards for a trophy deer fluctuate depending on what tackle they use to take it?

I totally understand that each person has their own opinion of what a trophy deer is. However I don't understand how that same person can proclaim a deer killed with a bow that is smaller and younger than a deer killed out of the same area with a rifle is still a trophy just because it died from an arrow???? I can certainly understand that one was more than likely a more challenging hunt than the other but the quality of the animal has fallen.

Think of it this way. If you and your buddy go to the club and he loads fat girl into his Ferari at the end of the night, How did he do? If you pic up a fat girl and take her home on your moped are you suddenly feeling more lucky than your friend cause anyone could do that with a fast sports car???

Why would anyone devalue their standards when percentage of success and failure fluctuates? Is the hunt about the game we play with the beast, or is it just about how often we kill?

Cheers,

Ben
 
I'm just trying to understand why you would put a fat girl in a Ferrari. I'm positive with that kind of car you could do much better!

Mike
 
>I'm just trying to understand why
>you would put a fat
>girl in a Ferrari. I'm
>positive with that kind of
>car you could do much
>better!
>
>Mike

My thoughts exactly, Mike. HAHAHA!!!
 
I think it has more to do with the quantity of "clubs" that you have access to. You have the ability to reach more clubs in a Ferrari than you do with a moped. Hence, you have a greater range of club sluts to choose from. When your options are reduced, you end up settling...even if that wasn't your original intention. Fat bottom girls making the hunting world go round!

-WB
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-15 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]The first few responses are full of humor and I hate to derail this comedic discussion with a serious post but . . . oh well.

A decision of what animal a hunter decides to take is a very personal decision. Hunters hunt for a number of different reasons. Some hunt for the meat. Some hunt for the sport and challenge. Some hunt for the opportunity to be in the outdoors with friends and family. Some hunt for the size of the trophy. Some hunt for more than one reason, some of which may even overlap.

I generally hunt for the sport and for the opportunity to be in the outdoors. I always use the meat but I do not consider myself a meat hunter. For these reasons, I typically pass on smaller animals and my feelings are not hurt if I do not fill my tag. Some of my best most memorable hunts are hunts where I enjoyed extended periods time in the outdoors with friends or family members and came home with an average animal or no animal at all. In fact, I shot a very small 2 point on my first deer hunt when I was 14 years old. That deer is still a trophy in my book.

I also enjoy muzzleloader and archery hunting. Despite spending a fair amount of time in the hills with these primitive weapons, I have only taken 1 bull with my bow and 1 buck with my muzzleloader. These animals are trophies to me but to others they are probably just an average 170? 4x4 buck and average 330 6x6 bull.

I have passed on many small bucks on the extended archery hunt with my bow in hand. That being said, I understand the sentiment that some folks may be willing to take a smaller buck or bull with a bow than they may be willing to take with a rifle. My guess is that these folks are focused on the sport and challenge of taking an animal with a bow. Or as you put it, ?the game we play with the beast.? I don't consider this ?devaluing their standards.? Rather, they are trying to increase the difficulty and further stack the odds against them and in return may be willing to take a smaller buck or bull. I have heard many hunters state that "any buck or bull is trophy when taken with a bow." I don't necessarily share that view but to each his own.

So returning to my original statement ? hunters hunt for a number of different reasons. Not everyone is a trophy hunter. There is room in this great sport for everybody and we should not try to make hunting a "one size fits all" sport.

Those are my two cents.

-Hawkeye-
 
I think you answered your own question with your statement follwing your original question.

I think that some hunters hold their standards higher or feel like its more less of a challenge with a primitive weapon because of what that weapon is capable of. (Further shot distance and not having to get as close.) With that, they expect better chances of harvesting more critters or bigger critters.
A bow being different because it can't shoot as far and you have to get alot closer. Which equals more failed stalks or more of a chance to get busted.

Not that they lower their standards for bow hunters, they may feel like any critter killed with a bow (which is more challenging to do) makes that critter more of a trophy no matter what size it is.

Almost every harvested odds statistic I've ever looked at, shows better odds using a gun instead of archery.

I understand that statement and I don't even bow hunt.




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
You've got it wrong Tri. The fat girls are the ones with the trophies. One got a Ferrari and one a moped.

Look at it this way.


Homer and Tristate are driving around drinking. Homer is at the wheel and careens off a cliff. Both Tri and Homer are killed instantly.

The two reach the pearly gates at the same time. St Peter welcomes them and takes them to see where they will spend eternity.

First they take Homer to a room with an ugly, fat girl. St Peter says "Homer, you shall spend eternity with this woman". She is so ugly even Homer protests. St Pete responds with "Sorry Homer, you have done some VERY BAD things in your life. This is whom you will spend eternity".

The three then move on to another room where there is another woman but this one is beautiful. A ten in anyone's book. St Pete says "Tristate, this is whom you shall spend all of eternity with". Tristate is beaming with his toothless jack-o-lantern grin. But Homer again protests. Homer says "But St Peter! Tristate is a slug. He argues all the time. He has no integrity and on Monster Muleys is considered lower than pond scum. Its not fair that he should spend eternity with this beautiful woman!"

St Peter responds to Homer "Yes I know Homer. Tri is vile and disgusting. However this woman has done some VERY BAD things in her life".


:)

I shoot whatever I want. My standards are my own and I do not need to justify them to anyone.

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
NVbighorn,

read what I posted. I am not asking for you to justify your standards and I respect that we all have our own. What I am trying to understand is why people alter their standard and as a result really have no standards at all.


Here is my point. Do yall really think it is harder to kill a bunch of three year old bucks with bows or whacking one eight year old buck with a rifle?

Cheers,

Ben
 
>NVbighorn,
>
>read what I posted. I
>am not asking for you
>to justify your standards and
>I respect that we all
>have our own. What
>I am trying to understand
>is why people alter their
>standard and as a result
>really have no standards at
>all.
>
>
>Here is my point. Do
>yall really think it is
>harder to kill a bunch
>of three year old bucks
>with bows or whacking one
>eight year old buck with
>a rifle?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Ben

Your question has no point! It's harder to kill a bunch of three year old bucks with a bow than it is to kill a bunch of three year old bucks with a rifle and it's harder to whack one eight year old buck with a bow than it is to whack one eight year old buck with a rifle.

And in the field, it's not just the distance that matters! It's also the position and alertness of the animal, the speed of the sound of the launch vs the speed of the projectile, the available shooting positions of the hunter, the body movement required to launch the projectile, the ability to hold the loaded weapon until the shot, the space above, below and behind the hunter that's required to make the shot, the ability to use a rest to steady the weapon, the opportunity for a second or third shot, the arch of the projectile and the tracking of the hit animal.

And off the field there's often a difference in practice time involved, body conditioning and equipment set-up and maintenance.

Think of it this way! Every golf course has holes that are par 3 or par 4 or par 5. Why the difference in standards? Some are harder to play than others!
 
Elk,

you dodged the question and the question has a point. Do you really think it is harder to kill a bunch of three year old bucks with a bow than it is to kill and eight year old buck with a rifle?

If you want to really challenge yourself and make bowhunting a great accomplishment, which I think it can be, don't alter your standards to include young dumb bucks.

From a biologist standpoint the early bow seasons are turning into a management failure if you want to manage herds for antler development and reduce pressure on available bucks.
 
If you ever tried to take a corner with a fat girl on a moped, you would appreciate what a trophy it really is.

Eel

Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you probably will never need one again.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-15 AT 11:53AM (MST)[p]Everyone is better off by posting more jokes to this topic. If you try to stay on point with a serious reply, Tri will just disagree and argue with you.
 
>
>Everyone is better off by posting
>more jokes to this topic.
> If you try to
>stay on point with a
>serious reply, Tri will just
>disagree and argue with you. <<

+1
I'm afraid you're right!
Zeke
 
Actually no one has disagreed yet. A few people have responded without closely reading my original post and fortunately it looks like I am going to heaven even if it is by default.

I actually enjoy when I post something and no one can give a meaningful logical response to the question. It means for a brief moment in your lives you are having to actually think about your own actions and motivations even though you can not be openly honest about them. It is an interesting characteristic of most.
 
I find it funny that someone thinks a 170 mule deer and a 330 bull are average. Those scores are much higher than the average deer or elk killed.
As for the original question, carry on.
 
"I totally understand that each person has their own opinion of what a trophy deer is. However I don't understand how that same person can proclaim a deer killed with a bow that is smaller and younger than a deer killed out of the same area with a rifle is still a trophy just because it died from an arrow????"

Well, since you totally understand that each person has their own opinion of what a trophy deer is, then you should also understand that it's not your job to understand that person's definition of a trophy, no matter the circumstances, or how that person views each deer/hunt differently. He does it according to his own personal definition, that only he/she understands.

Do I win a free mount?:)

Eel


Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you probably will never need one again.
 
Simple. A 145+ buck with a bow is considered a trophy just like a 180+ buck with a rifle is considered a trophy. Pope and young minimum score is lower because archery is way harder. Boone and crockett minimum score is higher because rifle hunting is way easier.
 
Tristate....

To answer your question...

Most people lower their standards with equipment that is generally harder to use in the taking of game. I think all can agree that Archery hunting is more of a challenge than rifle hunting. I come to this conclusion merely based off of the capabilities of each weapon type.

Now you have to also understand that in the grand scheme of things the majority of hunters want to just shoot an animal. They don't care how big or small it is though again I firmly believe that given the option in the field of a giant buck standing next to a spike almost every single hunter would take the larger buck. But due to the increased difficulty in taking a larger, smarter and more experienced buck... the inner desire to "fill" the tag overpowers one's ability to maintain his/her high standard on a buck.

I hope that answers your question.
 
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:D:D:D!!!

Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

9001hank2.jpg
 
Grose,

Where did I say killing a big buck was easy. Do you know how to read?


Eel,

I am not trying to judge their standards. I am trying to get people to analyze why they finally kill a deer and by doing so compromise their own standards.



By the way I find it interesting most people justify this becuase they infer that a hunting record book approves it.
 
Travishunter,

Thank you for your candid response. I fully understand that killing with a bow is usually more difficult than modern rifle WHEN THE ANIMAL IS MATURE. However I no longer believe hunting three year old bucks with great trophy potential with a bow to be any more difficult than killing mature bucks with a rifle.


I agree totally that people put unnecessary pressure upon themselves to just kill whatever they can when they can not achieve their own standards.

Cheers,

Ben
 
I've heard a lot of "But I did it with a bow" talk from time to time. Usually by guys explaining an animal they were less than pleased with. Kill what you want, but don't justify what you don't want with the weapon used because the critter fell short. mtmuley
 
The other thing I want to bring up is the General hunting areas. You don't have to lower your standards because it's a General area. Let the poor little buggers grow. They can't get bigger if you don't let them. Trade in your skirt for a pair of Wranglers and cover up that mangina. There was a time that there were enough Deer for everyone to do what they wanted with their Deer tag. Those days are gone. My point is, there is not a Deer for every tag sold now. Some Trophy hunters are going several years between harvests. And the Bambi hunters are pounding little bucks every year. I'm just sayin.
 
Standards, I guess be the word "standards" you are meaning trophy quality. Why would it be considered "lowering" Standards because of your equipment. Unless I'm unlike other folks my Standards or trophy ideas are set, set but yes "adjustable" for each Hunting situation. I would be more happy with a 160 class Archery Buck on public land DIY, Than a guided high fence 190 class. As Elkfromabove said earlier, There is more of an investment in time, Practice, Scouting, Ect.. To make it happen. In my State, Utah, I dont see all that many 160" on public land,in general area's. And the ones I do see are few and far far (off the roads and wheeler trails) between. But if you have the coin to buy a 190, they are there... ask Doyle. (this is not a slam on money hunters) Just saying "standards" can be different for all kinds of reasons. I would be happier with a 160" archery "Dumb Buck" Than I would with a dumb 160" rifle harvest. And to me Either on public land where I hunt in Utah would IMHO be a higher "Standard" than any buck someone other than myself scouted, located, and walked me to so I could pull a trigger
 
my standards change for what I consider a trophy depending on weapon, unit, public/private land and even season. If I am hunting with a rifle in a UT LE unit a trophy bull to me will be pushing that 350 mark or better. If I am hunting a CO OTC unit with my bow, then any bull over 280 is a trophy to me.
I don't expect trophies where they most likely don't exist. You can pass up smaller animals for a thousand years but if there isn't a 400" bull (or what ever size you want to insert in place of 400") in the unit you are hunting, then you will NOT shoot one no matter how many small ones you pass up.

a Hunter must be realistic in setting a level of what a "trophy" is for the tag they have. Anyone and everyone can go around bragging they won't shoot a buck under 200" but without a 200" running around then I guarantee you won't be shooting a 200" muley.
Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
So according to a couple of you, you can only gauge the success of your hunt by the inches of bone that hit the dirt.

So if your standard for pulling the trigger is 180 inches but your standard for releasing the arrow is 160 inches you really haven't increased your challenge at all if you consider the fact that the 160 is probably a younger dumber deer that would allow you to get close with an arrow.

The way it looks fellas some of you don't change your tackle because you enjoy the challenge of the game. Instead it is just another opportunity to put bone, ANY BONE, in the back of your truck.

If you want to start seeing truly giant deer it is time to quit hunting for inches and start hunting a specific age class no matter what tackle you are carrying.
 
would love for you to hunt a CO OTC unit waiting for a 10 year old bull with any weapon of your choice, how many bulls do you think you will get after 30 years of hunting? I'd bet my retirement that you would get zero.
Yes it happens but the odds to get one are worse than drawing a desert bighorn sheep tag.

As far as age class, that is hilarious if someone claims they can consistently and correctly identify a deer/bull by its age on the hoof. If you sit in a high fence and have 30 minutes to guess while it sits at a feeder and you have watched it for years, sure.
Having 10 seconds or less to judge an animal in the timber, good luck and you are a F'en LIAR if you say you can.

However, being able to snap judge a rack size in 10 seconds or less is very do able, difficult but a person can get rather close.

So tristate you can ride that giant white horse of yours (actually it is a runt of a miniature pony) all you want pretending you are the mightiest hunter out there but anyone that has been on MM's longer than 45 seconds knows what you actually are.
You want to ridicule people for them answering your question, no wonder no one ever wants to have a discussion with you.

By the way I NEVER said I judge my hunt by inches of antler, you can go back and quote me anytime any website where I said that and your next meal is on me.
I set a goal for myself on every hunt, some hunts I do set some goal of inches, some hunts I set a goal of getting an animal for my Dad, friend etc..., some hunts I am basically using as a scouting trip for a future hunt so my goal is to shoot the first legal animal for that tag, some hunts I want to tag an animal when my kids are there to share the experience with them, just depends on the situation.

and as far as archery vs rifle yes, it is different. If I had a henries archery tag, that goal would be a lot higher than if I had a rifle tag in the unit I put down for 3rd or 4th choice each year in CO.

Same unit, same time, simply different weapon, yep my goal would be higher for rifle. Simply the odds are against me to get with in range of the exact same caliber of animal compared to a rifle. Again, it happens but it is easier to get within range with a rifle than bow.


So what are your standards for hunting on private land with a guide or a high fence with a guide? You probably have to shoot the oldest deer they have tagged in the ear?

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
My standards never change. Otherwise I wouldn't have standards. And those standards are not 200 in. deer nor 360 in. bulls. Just mature animals. 5 years old or older. And it actually feels pretty good to not fill your tag sometimes. Even as a boy I never shot a young buck. One year we were moving in on a big 4 point for my son. And ran into a little 2x3 with it's jaw blown off. (by a truckload of jackasses) He finished it off and that's the only little buck I was a part of. I think every county in Utah has had record book bucks taken in it. So there is some kind of potential everywhere. If we will let there be. Most of the poor hunting is just from guys who have to fill that tag no matter what. It's not all the Game & Fish's fault, we as hunters need to do our part in conservation to. They need to sell tags to exist but we don't have to fill all of them.
 
"My standards never change. Otherwise I wouldn't have standards. And those standards are not 200 in. deer nor 360 in. bulls. Just mature animals."

A truly great statement here fellas.


Mntman,

you have missed the point completely. I am not ridiculing every person who posts on this thread either. I will say quite a few thin skinned emotional people have posted on this thread responses which really missed the topic. Your previous post mentioned nothing about hunting age only hunting inches of antler.

By the way I can age class a deer very often in under ten seconds. Try it sometime IT CAN BE DONE. Here is a really wild idea, IF YOU ARE UNSURE DON'T PULL THE TRIGGER. Have I made a mistake? You bet. That can happen also. That doesn't mean you quit and go back to shooting every three year old you can.

By the way go back and read the first paragraph of your last post. Examine the pressure and desperation you put yourself under to kill something, anything once you finally get lucky enough to hold a tag. Conservation and management be damned once Mntman gets his.
 
Whats being talked about here is actually 3 things all mixed together. Men, Hunters, and animals. We all have our standard for what a man is. It is not best described using terms like size or especially money or social standing. All hunters are not "Men". Many hunters and men consider a trophy animal to be one with large antlers. The older the animal and the bigger the antlers means a more valuable trophy. I know a select few men who wish to shoot only a trophy animal. Most men just love to hunt and want as often as not to shoot their quarry. Then there comes the hunter who can spend about as much money as he wants for the best hunting opportunities. This hunter usually has a nice big "horn collection". I have no problem with this guy unless he thinks because of the horn collection he should be "The Revered and admired Super Hunter-Outdoorsman!I tend to view this guy as being the same as a guy who wears a Viet Nam war veteran hat who has never left this country. Please note that I have called no person a name here and that I have named no one. I do not know anyone on this site well enough to call out.
J_T_B
 
Tri-state has a point and we see it all the time.

Scenario: Someone posts a picture of a buck and asks "Would you shoot this deer?" The response almost always include several asking if it will be archery or firearm.

Scenario: Someone posts a picture of a deer they killed and the responses often contain a few saying "That's great for an archery buck."

Tri-states question is why does the weapon matter in deciding if a buck is big. Not if it is challenging to kill with either weapon but is it big?

A big deer is a big deer whether you kill it with a bow or a rifle or a muzzleloader. And a buck is small whether it is killed with a rifle, bow or muzzleloader.

Another way of asking this question could be "Why is a buck killed at 30 yards with a bow more prized than the same buck killed at 30 yards with a rifle?"
 
If everyone held off for a 5-7 year old buck with 200 inches, would it be a trophy or just an average run of the mill accomplishment? By who's standard? My guess is that the 250" buck would be the new trophy standard that everyone must chase in order to feel like a real man.

You might as well sit in a box blind with a ranch manager giving you the nod to which deer to cull from the herd.

If you desire to have a trophy, take up golf and enter tournaments.

Eel

Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you probably will never need one again.
 
That's what you don't understand eelgrass. I am not hunting an age class because of a specific size antler I am chasing. I hunt an age class to challenge myself. I don't have a single entry in a record book anywhere. I hunt because I want to be challenged and the best three or four year old buck I can find isn't a challenge. If B&C makes their minimum entry for a muley 250 I could care less. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHY I HUNT mature animals.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-15 AT 11:40AM (MST)[p] "I hunt because I want to be challenged"

So are the guides you hire to help make your wanted challenge easier?

Why are your challenge standards flexible?
 
Heartshot,

The guides I hire are exactly that, guides. They typically know an area hundreds if not thousands of miles from where I live and I can not go scout before I go hunt. If I went without a guide in a never before visited area then the challenge has actually become even more difficult than normal for me and by your logic my standards are flexible again just in a different direction. Either way your argument doesn't hold any water.

For your information I go on guided deer hunts. I go on DIY deer hunts. I GUIDE MULE DEER HUNTS, and other hunts. I like all types of hunting but my standard for what a trophy deer is doesn't change.
 
I think good responses have already been given. I didn't read all of them, so maybe the point I'll make has already been made. The greater difficulty of harvesting an animal with a primitive weapon may even be reflected in the hunting seasons. First season elk rifle season in Colorado is 5 days long and generally occurs AFTER the rut is completed. By contrast, the elk bow hunting season extends for 30 days and coincides with the rut. That pretty much provides a solid measure of the difference of difficulty in hunting elk with a bow versus with a high power centerfire rifle cartridge.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-15 AT 12:22PM (MST)[p]Some hunt for trophies so you ask why their trophy standards change.

You told us you hunt for the challenge so I asked you why your challenge standards change.

There is a lot a parallels there.
 
Heartshot,

every single hunt is different in level of challenge I have very little control over that. That is part of what I love about the hunt, It doesn't care what my standards are.

Deerlove,

I have no pictures of any deer guided or unguided with a bow. I have never killed a deer with a bow.
 
>Deerlove,
>
>I have no pictures of any
>deer guided or unguided with
>a bow. I have
>never killed a deer with
>a bow.

Bingo!


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
Why is that "Bingo" NVB?

Are you trying to say that if I had ever killed a deer with a bow I would have instantly known I should throw away my previous standards????

I have never owned a slave either but I am pretty sure my standards tell me slave ownership isn't really something I need to be vested in.

Logic, who needs it?
 
What do a Moped and a fat chick have in common?
They are both fun to ride, but you don't want your friends to see you on either one of them!

"If you get upset or offended by ANY website forum
post.....especially mine, you need serious
intervention!"
 
>Why is that "Bingo" NVB?
>
>Are you trying to say that
>if I had ever killed
>a deer with a bow
>I would have instantly known
>I should throw away my
>previous standards????
>


In post 25 you said:

" I fully understand that killing with a bow is usually more difficult than modern rifle WHEN THE ANIMAL IS MATURE. However I no longer believe hunting three year old bucks with great trophy potential with a bow to be any more difficult than killing mature bucks with a rifle."


If you've never killed ANY buck with a bow HOW can you make such a statement? You have NO experience to back up your argument. Only your arm chair opinion.

Your slave comparison is just more of your talking in circles and had no bearing on this discussion.

Tell me WHY a hunter can't have more than one set of standards. Why couldn't you have a set of standards for putting meat on the table, another for a trophy deer, another for using a rifle, another for a muzzleloader and yet another for a bow? Where does it say that is wrong? Why is that different than having a set of standards for whitetail deer vs mule deer? Black vs Grizzly bear? Dall sheep vs Desert. A long range rifle deer vs a deer killed with a spear? Who are you to say someone can't?



[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
"If you've never killed ANY buck with a bow HOW can you make such a statement?"

Because I can and do get within "bow range" , under thirty yards of dozens of mule deer bucks every year that are not mature and people on this website would call them "great archery season bucks". They are stupid deer, that's why so many get shot by bowhunters. I have absolutely decades of experience to back up my argument. I DON'T KILL IMMATURE BUCKS WITH A BOW BY CHOICE EVEN THOUGH I EASILY COULD. That's MY standard.

I know my slave analogy was silly and illogical. I put it there so you could see how silly your "Bingo" logic is.

I never said it was wrong, I just don't think its "standards". they are crutches for hunting cripples.
 
>"If you've never killed ANY buck
>with a bow HOW can
>you make such a statement?"
>
>
>Because I can and do get
>within "bow range" , under
>thirty yards of dozens of
>mule deer bucks every year
>that are not mature and
>people on this website would
>call them "great archery season
>bucks". They are stupid
>deer, that's why so many
>get shot by bowhunters.
>I have absolutely decades of
>experience to back up my
>argument. I DON'T KILL
>IMMATURE BUCKS WITH A BOW
>BY CHOICE EVEN THOUGH I
>EASILY COULD. That's MY
>standard.
>
>I know my slave analogy was
>silly and illogical. I
>put it there so you
>could see how silly your
>"Bingo" logic is.
>
>I never said it was wrong,
>I just don't think its
>"standards". they are crutches
>for hunting cripples.

You are a self righteous #####. I'm sorry I didn't resist the urge to respond.


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
Tris you posted my favorite dumb azz quote I hear from lots of hunters."I could of killed it with my bow" Well pick up a bow!
 
Deer love,

Learn how to quote someone. Then learn how to read. I DON'T WANT TO KILL IMMATURE DEER. Bow or rifle.


NVB,

I am surprised you think I consider this a battle of right and wrong.
 
>I Knew the Second I seen
>this Thread that NVB &
>Tri was gonna need a
>Room!


I always thought I would be great at playing the banjo. ;)
 
>>I Knew the Second I seen
>>this Thread that NVB &
>>Tri was gonna need a
>>Room!
>
>
>I always thought I would be
>great at playing the banjo.
> ;)


It'd only have 1 string!
 
I understand what Tristate is saying but some things I don't fully agree with. Here's how I see it. An 80 inch fork horn is not a trophy with a bow. A 130 inch buck with a bow is a nice last day buck. Anything above 160 inches with a bow is what I would consider a shooter. A buck above 175 inches with a bow is considered a trophy bow kill by my standards. My standards with a rifle is much higher because its usually a hunt where you spot one then close the distance to 200 yards and shoot the buck. Archery standards are lower cause you have to have the right stalking opportunity.
 
It is harder to kill any animal with a bow rather than a rifle. Proximity to the animal matters. Accuracy of the weapon matters. A bow is far less accurate than a rifle. And you have to get much, much closer with the bow.

Actually finding an 8 year old buck is harder than killing it. :)

In reference to your original metaphor with the Ferrari and the Moped: Your buddy with the Ferrari (rifle) would definitely not get the "respect" from the rest of your friends if you came home with the same girl on your Moped (bow). The dude on the Moped would be the "better hunter". You know it, everyone here knows it. (Its a disgusting metaphor by the way)

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Hey big city boy pig,

So is a 3 or 4 year old deer that comes to your corn flinger any dumber than a 6 year old deer coming to the same corn flinger?
 
Tri, within 30 yards? Great! You're about 1/4 of the way there with a bow! Now all you have to do is load the arrow, raise up the bow, find a clear opening for the arrow, come to full draw, aim and wait for the animal to stand broadside or quartering away without you being seen, heard or smelled and without snagging on something. After all that, then the only thing left is to release the arrow, follow through and observe the animal's reaction to the sound of the release 'cause even at 20 yards the deer can hear the sound of the release and drop 12" or turn about 45 degrees before the arrow reaches him. Hopefully, all went as planned and you only have a short tracking job (or none if you missed). Otherwise, you've still got some work to do! But, of course, you knew all of that without having any experience and it wouldn't change your "standards" anyway.

I guess you place your hunting standards on a higher plane than your moral standards with your analogy of fat girls, mopeds and Farraris. To each his own. My hunting standards are flexible because they don't really matter when it comes down to life. As you so often remind us, hunting is just a hobby, but cheating on a wife is not and as a dedicated husband and father, I wouldn't pick up a fat girl nor a beautiful model period no matter what I was driving.
 
Hey shotmywad1, I assume you are talking to me. big city boy pig letmgetbig. Deer are like people some are dumber than others. But I can tell you this the 6 year olds are a lot bigger than the 3 & 4 year olds. Going scoutin be back in a few days.
 
I don't hunt with a bow but do hunt with a rifle. Am I right when I say: Bow hunters can hunt 30 days for a 145 mule deer in the record book and a rifle hunter hunts 5-7 days for a 190 mule deer in the record book. Was this done to even the playing field?? Does anyone know how many 145 deer in the past 10 years have made the record book vs how many 190 deer killed with a rifle?? I understand they are different record books.
 
WHAT? BIGGER IS NOT BETTER? In all things? Why would a bigger animal be better yet not a bigger person? I don't get it!
 
its hilarious that EVERY hunter has to have the same standard as MR. perfectri.
Everyone hunts for their own reason, as long as they are within the law that the state sets, why do YOU give a #####?
No two hunters are the same nor are their goals, desires.
I couldn't care any less what some other hunter has as a goal or is willing to shoot with any weapon. As long he/she is happy with results then how does it affect anyone else?

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
Because I can and do get within "bow range" , under thirty yards of dozens of mule deer bucks every year that are not mature and people on this website would call them "great archery season bucks". They are stupid deer, that's why so many get shot by bowhunters. I have absolutely decades of experience to back up my argument. I DON'T KILL IMMATURE BUCKS WITH A BOW BY CHOICE EVEN THOUGH I EASILY COULD.



Sounds like you are pretty modest, in the fact that you are passing the opportunity to be one of the top 5% of bow hunters. Very few bow hunters harvest deer every year. You my friend must be better at finding stupid bucks than the rest of us bow hunters.
Funny how a man that admits he's never bowhunted can come on here and all but insult bow hunters by saying only mature deer are smart and hard to kill.

For a few others, what the hell does it matter to you what others shoot? You want to shoot a yearling buck every year, I say do it! The hunt is for what you personally get out of it, no matter what that thing is.

I for one would rather be the guy with 20 3-4 year old bucks on my wall than a few 8 year old bucks when I die.
 
Wow, I would have thought that on a Monster Muley site. There would actually be people in favor of having some Monster Muley's around. Is there a little bucks are us site. You have to let them mature or they can't get big. I filmed a buck this morning and I put it on you tube. This is why I like to give them a chance to mature. The name of the video is "A Truly big Mule Deer Buck" Enjoy it if you are into that sort of thing.
 
letmgetbig,

I'm talking to you if you're some big city boy from Shitholesberg TexASS who thinks he's god's gift to the hunting world when in reality he's just a jealous butthurt little troll who tries to make himself sound intellectually superior to us poor ignorant western folk by making up asinine threads like this when in fact he's just the running joke of MM.

If that doesn't sound like you, then I'm not talking to you.
 
I haven't read any of the responses to this thread, so you may have already responded to a similar comment. But, Tristate, I think the reason has a lot to do with the rationale that I approach hunting with.

Why would a more challenging harvest appeal more to a person than a greater sum of numbers? Hmm... The answer seems pretty transparent to me, but, hey, we all have different opinions.

The question seems nonsensical, really. Don't wait up at night waiting for a revelation when the answer is is right in front of you.
 
>Wow, I would have thought that
>on a Monster Muley site.
>There would actually be people
>in favor of having some
>Monster Muley's around. Is there
>a little bucks are us
>site. You have to let
>them mature or they can't
>get big.

If I needed every hunter to pass up a buck till it was 6 1/2 years old before shooting so I could shoot one, then I would say my skills as a hunter were bad.
I am not an expert by any means when it comes to hunting monster bucks, i have shot a couple of good ones but I am not going to beg and plead with everyone so 35% of the bucks are over 6 years old so I can shoot one.
They are still out there, its just called hunting.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
The greater challenge nowadays is obviously finding the mature buck. I am out here assisting antelope hunters right now. In two days I have seen two bucks that were over 145 inches. My clients took pictures talked about them and we drove away with them still standing where we met them. Killing these babies with a bow would have been no more difficult than shooting the foam target.

I am not saying your standards should be my standards. What I am saying is whatever your standards may be once you start sliding your standards for whatever excuse they quit being standards.
 

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