Why Obama

C

cabinfever

Very Active Member
Messages
2,382
I understand why liberals worship at the feet of Obama, however, if moderates and independants decide elections, how come Obama isn't losing by a landslide in the polls? According to polls, Romney and Obama are in a dead heat. Are the polls wrong or slighted? Are moderates and independants under some kind of Obama voodoo spell? Unemployment is still over 8%, gas is $2 per gallon higher than when Obama took office. Than there is the apology tour, and 5 trillion added to the national debt.Some polls show the economy making a slow recovery, yet Bernarke is saying were heading for a cliff.What gives? In my neck of the woods, the economy seems fairly stagnant, with maybe a ever so slight up tick, which is quickly overshadowed by inflation.Is ideology more important to moderates than a strong economy?
 
Enough people understand Obama is not much of a liberal and this economy is the result of years and years of rightwing policies not anything Obama did,things like tax cuts to pay for wars, the drug war, and the rightwing health care system, all the crybaby rightwingers in the world can't lie enough to convince smart people that Obama is anything more than a moderate.

The powerful rightwing is able to stifle any meaningful changes to our economy, therefor it can't really get much better, heavily concentrated wealth is also at the heart of our problem and nothing can be done about that.

The great depression went on for years and the only thing that snapped us out of it was WW2 and the heavy hand of government, after that the economy lasted for a long time,basicly until 2008 when our greed finally caught up to us again, yes its a cycle, but don't look for another world war to change things this time around.
 
Same as Eel.




2311idiot.jpg
 
Piper you are so far left field that Lenin would have embraced you in Russia in 1917. What really bothers me is that a lot of good American service men has died to protect your right to spout your socialist views and endure your bullcrap.

People like you was not the ones that made this country great. People like you are the ones that will drag it down to it's knees.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON May-26-12 AT 10:39PM (MST)[p]>Piper you are so far left
>field that Lenin would have
>embraced you in Russia in
>1917. What really bothers me
>is that a lot of
>good American service men has
>died to protect your right
>to spout your socialist views
>and endure your bullcrap.
>
> People like you
>was not the ones that
>made this country great. People
>like you are the ones
>that will drag it down
>to it's knees.
>
>
>RELH

Ain't that the truth! This country will survive Obama, but it won't survive a majority of voters with views like Piper.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-27-12 AT 03:58AM (MST)[p]Piper your a daft plunker aren't ya?

He is living proof that 50% of the people you meet are below average in intelligence and this is the reason Obummer even has a chance.

avatar_2528.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-27-12
>AT 03:58?AM (MST)
>
>Piper your a daft plunker aren't
>ya?
>
>He is living proof that 50%
>of the people you meet
>are below average in intelligence
>and this is the reason
>Obummer even has a chance.
>
>
>
avatar_2528.jpg


+1
 
come on boys, lets talk policy, If most of you had any brains you would be dangerious, but you don't. So lets hear some truth about policy, why is the country running a deficit? how efficient is the 2.5 trillion dollar heath care system? the drug war? do we need to spend as much on the military as the rest of the world combined? what correlation does the high concentrated wealth statistics have with the debt,the recession, and Americas decline?

No doubt most of you are bothered by Obamas color, but I believe its the constant drum beat from Fox news that makes up the majority of your thoughts, and thats the sad state of America these days.
 
Why is Obama getting so much support in light of his failure and dismal performance ?

The extremely liberal news media.
A lot of people watch traditional televised news and read news papers. ABC, NBC and CBS are slanted to the left. CNN and MSNBC are farther to the left than Limbaugh is to the right.
These bias (so called) news sources not only editorialize to the left, they slant actual news stories and tell ?lies of omission? by simply refusing to run stories that look bad for Obama and the left.

If you talk to many of these voters about social issues, you find that they are often in line with Republican positions and policies, but the second you bring up politics, they say the support Obama. They think Obama is a moderate (see above posts) when in fact he is the most liberal President this country has ever had.

It's easy to understand why if you spend some time listening to the bias (so called) news and comparing what you hear to the facts.
 
It's quite simple, Obama may suck but the republicans suck worse. Romney has the lowest approval rating of any candidate going into the election in decades.

The 2010 election came with a landslide for the republicans in congress , toss the bums out and with fresh blood and a republican influence will fix this mess. yeah OK.

Now all your unfounded bull crap aside what have republicans done to help? don't give me the standard crap oh my they can't control Obama, they have the votes to stop Obama dead in the water. look at what they did from 2000 to 2008 and in the last two years then tell us why we should expect better results if they just have one more chance.

If you don't see why the swing voters aren't lined up behind the republicans it's safe to say you watch too much FAUX. right now you might as well flip a coin, we don't have a good choice once again.


Stay thirsty my friends
 
Piper
this country is running a deficit because it spends more then it brings in. If the government would get the hell out of the way with all its red tape and taxes this country could go forward. It seems anything the government touches is bound to cost more then anything in the private sector. So to say like you do this country will be better with government health care is border line retardation. Why does anyone deserve health care? They don't all deserve a big house, car, machine gun, ect. If you cant pay for something you dont deserve it.


Lets now talk taxing the rich. Do you honestly think taxing the rich does anything. No it doesnt they just raise the cost of their product and we as consumers have to pay it. If it cost more then we are willing to pay they have to find a way to cut the cost. This means going over seas to produce it or they go out of buisness. So taxing the rich wont do anything.

The bail outs this country did was BS it would have done better to just give every home owner a hundred thousand+ dollars. This would have probably cost less then what they gave to the banks and auto manufactures. If you didnt own a house you dont deserve the money because you have more then likely been sucking money out of the ones who do. Being middle class over taxed blue collar guy I cant stand free loaders!

Unions have done nothing but increase the cost of anything they touch while protecting worthless lazy "free loaders" workers. I cant tell you how many jobs ive been on where I have a guy that doesn't do anything but stand around and watch me work. Sometimes there are two guys that stand around and watch me work for an eight hour day.

This country could do better with a flat tax or a say 10% of what you make. So if you make crap you pay 10% of crap. you make millions you pay 10% of millions. This is easy to calculate and is fare! There are no "free loaders" in this plan.

We pull out of every country were in and protect our own boarders.

This is just a start of what would turn this country around. The next step would be to toss out all these liberal democrats like yourself. This also includes the liberal Rihno's as well.

This country needs an enema!


avatar_2528.jpg
 
So Piper, you voting for Obama?



***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
Somewhere in the middle between you guys and Piper are the people that will decide the election. Dude is right as well, you don't have to be a great candidate to win just better than Obama. At this point Romney has very little pizzaz which doesn't bode well for his chances in November. The November election won't make or break this country because neither candidate will do as they say, simple politicics 101.
 
not quite cornhusker, the election is decided by a few swing states, and I will say that the electorial college is another American joke.

Im not a flaming liberal in any shape or form, I just say it how it is, facts are facts, costs are costs, dumb is dumb.

There are and have been far too many takers in this society, people like RELH who only help themselves and expect the government to take care of them and their families with a rich and elite lifestyle, in other words they recieve far more than they give, you get 20 million people like that and there is a problem.

What I point out is how policies are what matters in the real world, its not about skin color, political party, or personality. we live in a world where instant gratification is expected, so its confusing to many of these rightwingers when the policies of a decade ago profoundly effect what is happening right now, they want an instant fix and they can't understand what effects what and why and when.
 
(Piper said;
Lets talk policy-)
*why is the country running a deficit? *

Because we were attacked and drawn into an expensive war, and don't call it Bush?s war, the Democrats wanted it as well. To quote Joe Biden 3 years ago, ?It's our responsibility now?.
Because the collapse of the banking industry and housing market, and THAT can be directly blamed on Democrats like Dodd, Frank & Clinton. The Republicans tried to stop it, and should get credit for it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*how efficient is the 2.5 trillion dollar heath care system? *

It's a disaster of wasted money and in-efficiency. I have written about it several times here on MM The only thing that could possibly be worse, more in-efficient, waste more money is Obama care, we must stop it. Everyone knows it,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*the drug war? *

Another giant waste of money and resources.
IF we were serious about the drug war, a few applications of herbicide applied from the air would dry up supplies of cocaine, heroin and pot within months.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*do we need to spend as much on the military as the rest of the world combined? *

No, we don't. Are military could be just as effective and intimidating at about 1/3 the current cost if we stopped letting the Military-industrial complex sell us ridiculously over priced weapons systems, and stopped preparing for war against a traditional army. We should start focusing on limited gorilla warfare and training soldiers to kick azz instead of play with computers. We learned nothing in the last 40 years.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .
*what correlation does the high concentrated wealth statistics have with the debt,the recession, and Americas decline? )
As usual, liberals ask the wrong question, hoping for answers that validate failed policies.
The correct question might sound more like this;
What can we do to lift the lower and middle class that doesn't involve stealing from the rich under color of authority. .
 
The only reason Romney is lower in the polls then he should be is because the black vote in uneducated masses and the anti mormon haters wont vote for a mormon.

Romney is no right wing republican. He is a middle of the ground leaning towards the left liberal. So im not sure why guys like 440, and piper cant stand him. O its probably because hes mormon!

Admit it 440,piper you guys are racists when it comes to religion.

I want a true conservative in power but I believe there are way to many free loaders in this country to vote one in. Everyone wants a hand out. Blacks want a hand out, mexicans want a hand out, farmers want a hand out, gays want a hand out, poor wants to stick it to the rich and sit on there butts waiting for a hand out. ect ect No president will get elected without kissing all the free loaders butts and this country will never turn around with out kicking all the free loaders to the curb!



avatar_2528.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON May-27-12 AT 12:27PM (MST)[p]we are running a deficit because we spend more than we take in, the war is some of it, but paying for a war requires more taxes not less, other wars were paid for with taxes, look it up or read history if you don't believe me.

Your right about the health care system being wasteful, but a quick look around at the rest of the world should provide some answers, like Nemont says the care is already socialized, the costs should be also, Obama care was an attempt at that and some other things, and the bills failures are greatly trumped up for obvious reasons, in fact it closely follows what Mass. did when Romney was gov.

herbicide is not the answer to the drug problem, maturity is and thats something this country lacks.

So Romney says he is going to spend even more on the military. quite the guy ol Mitt is, digging a hole? get a bigger shovel.

Swbuckmaster- I am a Mormon you moron
 
Gov. Christie got it right the other day,the hell with green energy we need cheaper gas prices to pull us out of this mess.You need a good economy to produce good ideas.
 
You are all correct in some of the points you make. I guess thatis why I read this site sometimes it actually makes me think. Unlike most of you I believe Piper is correct on many of his points. I believe the concentration of a large percent of the wealth in the hands of a few people leads us the same direction as Mexico. It's also obvious in my mind that the decreasing taxes paid by the wealthy psychologically is not good for the attitude of the general populace. We can all probably agree the health care system is broken and needs to be revamped. My point I'm not willing to trvialize Pipers thoughts as readily as most of you.

I also think we need to change the entitlement system within the country while there is still time. We have too many people taking advantage of it. I unlike many of you feel that we'llcome out of this filling the void that the EU leaves as it's obviously failing badly.

I don't think Dude hates Romney in fact I believe he stated he is voting for him. I have not decide if I will give Obama 4 more years or vote Romney. By the way I could care less if Romneyis a Mormon, Muslim, or Catholic.

The white bass are chasing shad on Table Rock Lake so I'm going fishing for a week, long drive but a lot of fun if they stay up.
 
"No doubt most of you are bothered by Obamas color"....that is all you needed to say piper. There is no way to argue or even discuss policy with dimwits like you. No matter what an Obama opponent says...it's a "black" thing with you.


JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
many rightwingers have to be bothered by his color otherwise they wouldn't make up all these hyped up half truths and lies, rightwing darling Marco Rubio said that "Obama is the most devisive figure in modern American history" whats he trying to say? and I wonder why?
 
uh...like I said. Us right wingers flung around just as many half truths about clinton...


JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
you mean Obamacare, which is basicly Mittcare and the same thing republicans proposed during Clintons try at healthcare reform.
Other presidents have called for reform, TR was one, Truman was another, but Obama is the most devisive public figure in American history? Im not buying it, I think the grand wizard is hinting at his race.
 
Oh, he is just pointing out what it is. Its not like Romney invented anything, or marketed anything overseas, I think Americas financal market is fair game as long as the discussion is honest.
Teddy Roosevelt used to have a lot to say about that type of thing.
 
Let's just toss race out of this: if you had to choose Obama or Romney to control your personal finances, which one would you choose?
 
I don't think we should toss race out of the equation just yet. Piper claims that us Republicans don't like Obama simply because he is black but name one other POTUS in post civil rights history that would have even spoke one word about the Treyvon Martin case. Name one that would have gone on national TV when his black professor friend was arrested and said that the police (white cops) acted stupidly.

A POTUS should never takes sides in any case before all the facts are in and especially when such tension is being ramped up by the media. A true leader would have gone on national TV and called for calm and peace. We haven't heard Obama utter a single word when there is black on white crime which he was so eager to speak when the white hispanic shot the black kid.

Aside from that, Obama can't even get his own party to vote for his budgets. He spends money like crazy and bends over backwards for unions and special interests which are all things that the left hated Bush for. Anyone remember how Bush was a big oil guy and that was why gas prices were so high on his watch? Well gas prices are now higher and not a word from the left about why they are so high under Obama.

I give Obama credit for getting Bin Laden but aside from that, his presidency has been an epic failure. If you notice that the OP asks "Why Obama?" to which the Obama supporters have not stated anything that Obama has accomplished to merit another term. All they ever say is Romney is bad, GWB was bad and the Republicans are bad. Please do tell, what has Obama done that is so good. Specifically, what policies have been enacted that have strengthened our economy or what measures has he taken to help America's debt problem. Maybe some of you know why he never closed Gitmo or why Iran is closer than ever to becoming nuclear. The killing of Bin Laden while a great accomplishment does not warrant another 4 years for any president when so much else is in the crapper.
 
Piper, you forget so soon the venom from the liberal cockroaches in regards to Bush, and I am pretty sure he is white.





***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
NMPaul, I think you are forgetting that Piper was one of the liberal cockroaches and he still spews his venom on anything that is not bent wrist left wing liberal.

RELH
 
Piper-the economy was taken down by the biggest bubble in history and that was created by liberals who forced banks to lend to people using the stated income rule. I have an employee that bought a $200000 home making $12 an hour. He never made the first payment. If your western European gods are so great why are they all bankrupt? No country can give free healthcare, free early retirement and 8 weeks of vacation to all citizens and be solvent for long. Obama will fight hard but I think he will lose. I have flaming liberals like you in my family who voted for O last election. Every one is either voting republican or not voting at all.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-28-12 AT 10:44AM (MST)[p]The problem most of you have is a lack of understanding how things work, especially Glen, he blames the bubble on the government loan programs while forgeting everything else that led to the collapse, I don't know what the European gods statement means, but cost is cost and if universal health care is cheaper, then it is, thats actually quite simple Glen. Im not so sure all European countries are bankrupt, but simple blank statement are a hallmark of the rightwing.

If Romney were to offer some good policy, I would say great, but simply giving more tax cuts to the wealthy, cutting capital gains taxes, abolishing the inheritance tax, and throwing more money at the military is all he offers, I will pass. If top end tax cuts were the key to a great economy and lower deficits then we should all be in hog heaven right now.

A strong thriving middle class is what we had when this country was at its peak and with that gone there is no real hope for a return to the good times, its going to be pick your poisen from now on Im afraid, so far Romneys plan sounds good for the top 10%- 20% of Americans and pretty dismal for the remainder of citizens, I realize many people don't deserve much, but it sounds like a good percentage of regular working class people will simply have to work even harder for less.
 
I wonder what ever happened to all the green jobs Obama promised? He was going to shut down oil, bankrupt the coal industry and put everybody to work doing solar, wind, and other renewable energy jobs.

I don't know of even one new solar panel in the town I live in since Obama was elected. There aren't but a handfull of people in this town that could afford a solar panel, let alone pay some workers union scale to install it.

How did Obama figure people could afford to switch to solar? Then I thought maybe he was going to unveil a new "Home Nuclear Power Plant" that sells for under $50. So far I haven't seen it.

Obama said we would lead the world in ingenuity, hard work, and inovation. Maybe digitizing the food stamp program was what he meant?
 
Obama has been a dismal failure as our President. His policies have been large failures and are leading us down the road to outright bankruptcy.
Why persons like Piper can keep supporting him is beyound any reasonable belief. Romney is a unknown, but at this stage a unknown is far better then Obama and his programs.

RELH
 
What excatly is a whole lot different today than it was when Bush was president? what rights have you lost? have yout taxes increased? are we in any new wars? have there been any major attacks on US soil ? can you prove the economy is worse than it was in 2008? didn't Bush add trillions to the debt? have they collected your guns?

When you wingnuts shoot your mouth off about how bad you have it now and how great it was under Buah and how wonderful it would be under Romney's rule you come across as either racist or stupid. take your choice.

Yes I plan on voting for Romney because I think he will do ok, not great but ok. but the more wingnuts I listen too the more I'm having second thoughts on that. I am willing to give Romney a shot but knowing Obama being reelected would give you guys a stroke is a big selling point on Obama.

It doesn't matter who I vote for Oregon's electoral votes are Obama's no matter what. it's a stupid system, the popular vote should determine the winner.






Stay thirsty my friends
 
I'll tell you what is different today. It is the outright silence and double standard that the left is putting on display that's what. You're right GWB and Obama's policies are much the same especially when it comes to spending, Gitmo and special interests all things that you libtards HATED Bush for but are so quiet about now. In fact, you libtards are ready to hand Obama another term for the very same things that you wanted Bush removed for.

Imagine the girly screams the left would cried if GWB had loaned billions to failing companies after being warned not to. Imagine the screams from the left if GWB would have had Fast and Furious under his command. Imagine the screams even if GWB would have told his CIA director that he would have to sleep on a decision to raid a compound thought to hold Bin Laden. Imagine if GWB would have gone after Khadaffi.

This country is so far divided that I don't think it will ever get fixed without a revolution. I highly doubt that Romney will re-unite the people as Americans and enact real solutions to our problems but as was said before it is unknown what he can/will do. Obama has been a proven divider and has shown no willingness to work with Congress so why waste another 4 years?
 
Corporate profits are way up, CEO pay is at a high point, the DOW was under 8.000 when Obama took office and its now over 12.000. federal taxes are at an all time low, its true that the deficit is high, but you can't have both.

Actually I don't understand why rightwingers would have so much hatred for Obama, unless its you know what.
 
Being a lack of understanding,blank statement rightwinger I have a couple questions for you pipe, since you evidently have a clear understanding of how things work and the projected policies of the current "moderate" administration.

1) Lets say that your plan goes into effect and they increase taxes to (pick your chosen rate) on everyone above $250,000,up the corporate rate(even though we already have the highest),increase capital gains/inheritance tax. What does the FG do with the extra income and how does it benefit the middle class? For that matter, how do you define the middle class? Be specific please since you have a total understanding of how things work.

2)How would the the pipedream plan cut the military? How many of the 2 million plus personel would be terminated,bases closed,etc.?
Once again be specific,it shouldn't be hard with your superior understanding. Don't leave out where your moderate adm. would re-employ the number cut.

3)What would the pipe socialized healthcare plan entail? What would op-rightwing know nothing have to pay and what would the care provide? Lets say I have a torn meniscus & the wife has female issues. Give me the cost to me and the timetable of being "fixed". Why also don't the top of the gov't and wealthy "moderates" take advantage of the same socialized plan as op-rightwing will be forced to participate in?

4)Why do you and the other "moderates" hide in the closet from your socialist dreams & views if it is the common sense way to run our country and us lack of understanding,simple blank statement rightwingers just don't know what it is?(you made that statement in another post earlier this month) Why not just be honest and forthright about the "real plan"?

5)What would President Pipe do in central planning Pipe-America do to make sure OP-rightwinger keeps his liberty or is the gov't involved in every aspect of my life?

6)Why in the hell are you so miserable? What kind of fairness in this country would make you say "this place has become the utopia I dreamt about all those years"? Be specific with dollar figures,benefits etc. I would love to know who shyt in your mess kit of life.

We non-understanders will be waiting patiently for an in-depth blue print of the full understanding pipestar America plan. Thanks for bailing the rest of us dipshyts out (especially Glen)!
 
>Corporate profits are way up, CEO
>pay is at a high
>point, the DOW was under
>8.000 when Obama took office
>and its now over 12.000.
>federal taxes are at an
>all time low, its true
>that the deficit is high,
>but you can't have both.
>
>
> Actually I don't understand why
>rightwingers would have so much
>hatred for Obama, unless its
>you know what.

You know what? Piper your dummer than a day old,well you know what.
 
The thing that's funny is piper and 440 thinks us right wingers liked bush. Hell no we didn't like him because he was a rihno and spent as almost as much as your savoir Obummer has. What I dont get is why they didnt like Bush. The only thing I can see to why they didnt like him was because bush called himself a republican.

Most people could have cared less what the government was doing at the time bush was in office because we not only had jobs but most were working on over time. Life was good!

Could you imagine how much money gore would have spent? I bet it would have been twice as much as Bush.

Thats the thing with these bent wrist liberals, their police is to spend money to create jobs. Where the hell does all this money come from. They must think it falls out of the trees. The last time I looked the fastest way to get myself out of debt was to get a job or maybe get 2 jobs and cut my spending. Since the government cant get a job the only thing it can do is cut its spending and get the heck out of my way.
 
sw- Gore would have spent far less than Bush, you can bet on it, Clinton spent far less than Bush did.

buckslayer- I will answer some of that, federal taxes should basicly go back to what they were after Clintons 1993 deficit reduction act, the increased money going to the treasury should go towards balancing the federal budget.
The federal government should go leaner and federal employees should expect cuts in benefits.

The military budget should be cut in increments, any employees should have retraining benefits and early retirement could be optional, although they retire pretty early anyay, right now close to half of the entire worlds military spending is spent by the US, thats insane.

The drug war needs to end as we know it, The narcos and every other leech that sucks off the current system needs to be terminated, with some optional retraining into effective ways to help with substance abuse problems.

Health care needs to be universal with the costs being paid for by everyone, even illegals who are employed by all the get rich quick companies, an optional single payer system needs to be available and be manditory for those who do not get private insurance, also the government needs to quit sponsering employers to provide healthcare, that would be a huge boost to the economy, freeing up businesses and individuals to move and be mobile.
America is 50th on the longevity list of countries. Im quite sure your knee could be fixed and your wife would be taken care of better or as good as now, the incredible greed and inefficiency that are hallmarks of American heathcare need to go away.

The government needs to get out of peoples personal lives, out of the bedroom, mostly out of the drug enforcment business and it needs to quit being a puppet to many of these massive corporations
 
[Health care needs to be universal with the costs being paid for by everyone, even illegals who are employed by all the get rich quick companies, an optional single payer system needs to be available and be manditory for those who do not get private insurance, also the government needs to quit sponsering employers to provide healthcare, that would be a huge boost to the economy, freeing up businesses and individuals to move and be mobile.]


So what would be a fair way for everyone to pay for it? Percentage of income, yearly flat rate. I'd be fine with everyone having to pay a flat rate of $100K/yr/household for insurance. How would you squeeze blood from a turnip though?
 
Thats a tough one, I would imagine the rich would have to pay more in taxes and everyone without a certain amount of private insurance would have to pay more in taxes. Making things better won't be hard as our current system is grossly unfair now , but making things fair to all would be very hard to do.
 
Piper it will never happen. Trying to make it fair to everyone is impossible in this day and age. Even if they taxed the richer more and ones without insurance coverage will result in the Democrats yelling and screaming that the GOP is screwing over the little guy. They will not mention that the richer is also getting hit harder.

I could buy into it if it was a fair tax to all income groups. Just try to tax the 50% that do not pay any taxes for medical coverage will give the democrats a banner to hold up trying to get more voters on their side. The GOP will not buy into it unless more income groups is included along with the rich group.

We need a leader in there that can make both sides compromise and make it fair to all. This is where Obama has failed the greatest. Instead of bringing both parties to the bargain table, he has done the opposite and driven a wedge between then that is greater since his election.

RELH
 
Cornhusker

If you agree withn Piper, who states that goverment is the solution to our problems, and if you truly are a sampling of how moderates think and vote than moderates are nothing more than liberals in sheeps clothing, and it appears Obama will get another term. I happen to think you don't represent all moderates.

The libs can soak the rich and the middle class for everything they have and it will do nothing to solve our debt crisis.That is a fact. We have a spending problem in this country and it's a cancer that needs to be removed. Frankly, anyone who agrees with piper are so far left they need there own special category.
 
>sw- Gore would have spent far
>less than Bush, you can
>bet on it, Clinton spent
>far less than Bush did.
>
>
>buckslayer- I will answer some of
>that, federal taxes should
>basicly go back to what
>they were after Clintons 1993
>deficit reduction act, the increased
>money going to the treasury
>should go towards balancing the
>federal budget.
>The federal government should go leaner
>and federal employees should expect
>cuts in benefits.
>
>The military budget should be
>cut in increments, any employees
>should have retraining benefits and
>early retirement could be optional,
>although they retire pretty early
>anyay, right now close
>to half of the entire
>worlds military spending is spent
>by the US, thats insane.
>
>
>The drug war needs to end
>as we know it,
>The narcos and every other
>leech that sucks off the
>current system needs to be
>terminated, with some optional retraining
>into effective ways to help
>with substance abuse problems.
>
>Health care needs to be universal
>with the costs being paid
>for by everyone, even illegals
>who are employed by all
>the get rich quick companies,
>an optional single payer
>system needs to be available
>and be manditory for those
>who do not get private
>insurance, also the government needs
>to quit sponsering employers to
>provide healthcare, that would
>be a huge boost to
>the economy, freeing up businesses
>and individuals to move and
>be mobile.
>America is 50th on the longevity
>list of countries. Im quite
>sure your knee could be
>fixed and your wife would
>be taken care of better
>or as good as now,
> the incredible greed and
>inefficiency that are hallmarks of
>American heathcare need to go
>away.
>
>The government needs to get out
>of peoples personal lives, out
>of the bedroom, mostly out
>of the drug enforcment business
>and it needs to quit
>being a puppet to many
>of these massive corporations


There is no way of knowing what Gore would have done or not done. He couldn't beat GWB so it doesn't matter.

Liberals don't believe almost all of what you write in this post. They want government to grow, the do want to cut defense spending but grow almost all other spending, including spending on our health care system. They didn't even get a public option passed when they held all the power so they don't believe in socializing the entire system either.

The Democratic party sold it's sole when Clinton moved it's campaign finance base away from unions and over to Wall Street. Go look at which party in nearly every election collected more money from big corporations and Wall Street. It was not the Republicans, why do you think Dodd/Frank didn't get to the heart of the financial melt down? Because proprietary trading inside the big banks with casino that raises so much campaign cash for Democrats.

Democrats have as much interest in balancing the budget as the Republicans had. Do you know who signed the bill to extend the Bush tax cuts? Why do you think that was?

Nemont
 
True dat from both parties. Piper, I understand the feeling that everyone should get healthcare, food and shelter but it is exactly like the Cap & Trade bill that was designed to siphon huge amounts of cash from the first world countries to give it to the third world countries. Same as taking all the money from the wealthy here to give it to the poor. There are limited world resources and if you want to give something then we will end up with a lower standard of living just like has happened with manufacturing going to the third world. Bottom line is for all Americans to have a good standard of living the workers who do pay taxes would get hit so hard they would either flee or stop working. A small business would close the doors and protect the savings they have accumulated through hard work.

England and Germany have decent economies but they are also cutting social programs to get their deficits down. Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Italy and Greece are on the verge of BK. I guess if every country declared a do over and BK for the entire world we could someday get our manufacturing back but that will never happen. Our middle class of the past is gone. We better figure out a way to reinvent the US middle class. Good luck funding all the free stuff with the current depression.
 
No way of knowing what Gore would have done so cut Bush some slack? other than not bombing Iraq that's true. so why is it the all knowing republicans are sure us McCain would have done better?

I don't get all the theatrics and fainting spells you wingnuts go through everytime Obama's name is mentioned. it's as safe to say Obama has done a better job than Mcain would have as to the contrary. you had your chance and you blew it, this November will prove how long voters memory is. 4 years is streching it for most folks I fear, 4 hours is 3 hours too many for a wingnut.

If Romney does win we can resume this thread in 2016 and see if we're all rich and the debt is paid off. I'll enjoy that discussion because I have a pretty fair idea how it will go. we'll see then if our life sucks so bad today because we let a black democrat try to do a old white guys job won't we.


Stay thirsty my friends
 
Nemont- I just told what I think should happen.
Neither side is worth a crap, and the only way to win an election these days is to sell you soul to wall street.
 
440 says it's safe to say that Obama is doing a better job than McCain would have. How in the f*ck could anyone possibly know that? It's about as dumb as Piper telling us what Gore would have done if he didn't suck so bad.

Then you have Piper saying that neither side is worth a crap but does anyone ever notice that he only ever bashes the Republican side of the aisle?

Oh well, like they say... You can't fix stupid! I still have yet to hear a solid argument as to why Obama should be re-elected. I was hoping for specifics a few posts ago but at this point I'll settle for a vague ramble full of talking points.
 
I'm still waiting to hear why Obama is satan's evil brother.

I'm not saying Obama has been a great president I want to hear what makes him the worst. see if you can answer this with factual information not quotes from Glen Beck, Staypuff and Manny.

I'm not saying Obams deserves relection, I'm saying little will change if he isn't.

Care to bet the debt will be higher and the economy won't be back to the 2006 level 4 years from now regaurdless of who wins in November? com'on put up or shut up.


Stay thirsty my friends
 
lol 440...if Bill Maher or John Stewart didn't say it...you consider it untrue..



JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
LMAO! You could throw in Peter Griffin too JB!

440, I forgot that you're still in the 3rd grade but in case you didn't notice the title of the thread is "Why Obama". This means that someone is asking why Obama should be re-elected not what will change if he isn't. Since you have always been the great Obama defender, you should easily be able to state your case as to what he has accomplished that warrants another 4 years for him.

Nobody expects Romney or any other politician at this point to be any better but simply stating that Obama was better than McCain so therefore we should give him 8 years makes absolutely no sense. Just because we don't expect Romney to be better doesn't mean that he won't be and for what you libtards hated Bush for you should hate Obama as much or more.

So, why don't you put up or shut up and make the case for your man. Again, please tell us what Obama has accomplished to warrant another term, not what McCain would have done or what you THINK Romney may or may not do. WHY OBAMA?
 
Piper, that was a good effort to plead your case to my simple,blank statement,lack of understanding questions. Just as I expected however, your answers were typical left winger blank statement with lack of understanding. At least you didn't come back with a 440ism like "better than McLame" or why do you think Obama is Satin's brother though.

You failed to even try to explain how we are gonna pay for all the "re-training" and what just exactly are we gonna re-train everyone for? Remember, in Pipe-America you are shrinking the evil private sector down because they are greedy and inefficient.

You also stated that medical costs need to be shared by all, but we both know thats far from a realistic statement. What you meant was you would like the "Greedy Rich" to be taxed so everyone else can share the same medical benefits for free or little cost. I'm good with free as long as it benefits me? Hmmmm, doesn't that concept fall under the definition of greed as well?

The last thing that really is strange is that you said, "Govt needs to get out of peoples private lives". I'm pretty sure if you get out the Liberals handbooks (communist manifesto & rules for radicals) it doesn't call for govt to get out of peoples private lives. Or is that just reference to being gay,abortion and govt dollars paying for casual sex, the things those christian rightwingers that 440 is so scared of don't believe in? You can't have it both ways as you like to say.

One last question that I forgot in my last post, What document in Pipe-America would limit the FG from being free to do "whatever the hell they want"? Also you failed to touch on my middle class benefits and costs to me in your Pipe-America. Both sides suck is far from the answer I expected from a guy that clearly understands and "knows what Socialism is". C'mon Pipe your better than that! Share the secrets.
 
I bet the hispanic community is just thrilled. The guy promises comprehensive immigration reform, has the house and senate control and does zero for them. Amazing that people will keep voting for someone after he clearly lied to them. Stupid is as stupid does.
 
Ya were racist because there is a pos in the white house racking up debt and shoving his health care which we cant pay for down my throat. Hes spent more money then any pres in history.

440 get a sniff! I would feel the same about him if he was an albino

Typical black racist statements against whites. If you disagree with them your a racist.


avatar_2528.jpg
 
440


"see if you can answer this with factual information not quotes from Glen Beck, Staypuff and Manny."

Fact: Obama has not netted one job from when he took office.
Fact: Unemployment is still over 8% and actually higher as they are not counting the cronically unemployed.
Fact: Obama has incurred over 5 trillion in new US debt in less than 4 years. Something no US president has ever done in the history of the US. Oh, and he called George Bush unpatriotic for racking up 4 trillion in 8 years.
Fact: Gas was under %2 a gallon when Obama took office. It's now over $4 a gallon
Fact: Obama bailed out private companies like GM. Yea, I know you libs think that was a good thing. Sorry 440, but the goverment needs to stay the hell out of the private sector.



"I'm not saying Obams deserves relection, I'm saying little will change if he isn't. Care to bet the debt will be higher and the economy won't be back to the 2006 level 4 years from now regaurdless of who wins in November? com'on put up or shut up."

440
If you think little will change than quit telling everybody on this site that your going to vote for Romney when we know dang well you have a lifesize poster of the annointed one, and will cast your vote for Obama in the fall.Seriously 440, you make zero sense whatsoever.


I will bet you that more Jobs will be created under Romneys watch.
 
I do plan on voting for Romney, just not for the same reasons you wingnuts will.

Bush got bin Laden according to you wingnuts, so if the economy recovers under Romney we can give Obama credit right? fair is fair.

I plan to vote for Romney because I think there are enough dorks who think Romney will energize the economy that it may become a self fulfilling prophocy. not because he's going to do anything different but to borrow a slogan he's " Change "

By the time most goobers realize the debt is still in hyper upswing and the economy still depends on foriegn money and the healthcare system the republicans didn't fix when they rolled back Obamacare is breaking us I can have at least a few million dollars worth of real estate unloaded.


I think we're screwed either way, but Romney offers a chance at a window of opportunity Obama most likely won't. if it happens I'm going to sell like a Ronco commercial and buy absolutely nothing , the crash after that will be worse than the last meltdown and then I'll buy cheap.

Obama is just todays scapegoat, we're going to need a herd before it's over. our standard of living is going to drop as India ans asia's comes up and the president will not matter. believe me now or believe me later.


Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON May-30-12 AT 07:02PM (MST)[p]Why Obama?

Did you see the dumbass that was in office from 2000-2008?
Have you seen the idiot the repubicans selected???

THAT'S WHY!

You guys are fricken stooooopid!
 
>
>
>
>
>
>I do plan on voting for
>Romney, just not for the
>same reasons you wingnuts will.
>
>
>Bush got bin Laden according to
>you wingnuts, so if the
>economy recovers under Romney we
>can give Obama credit right?
> fair is fair.
>
>I plan to vote for Romney
>because I think there are
>enough dorks who think Romney
>will energize the economy that
>it may become a self
>fulfilling prophocy. not because he's
>going to do anything different
>but to borrow a slogan
>he's " Change "
>
>By the time most goobers realize
>the debt is still in
>hyper upswing and the economy
>still depends on foriegn money
>and the healthcare system the
>republicans didn't fix when they
>rolled back Obamacare is breaking
>us I can have at
>least a few million dollars
>worth of real estate unloaded.
>
>
>
>I think we're screwed either way,
>but Romney offers a chance
>at a window of opportunity
>Obama most likely won't.
>if it happens I'm going
>to sell like a Ronco
>commercial and buy absolutely nothing
>, the crash after that
>will be worse than the
>last meltdown and then I'll
>buy cheap.
>
>Obama is just todays scapegoat, we're
>going to need a herd
>before it's over. our standard
>of living is going to
>drop as India ans asia's
>comes up and the president
>will not matter. believe
>me now or believe me
>later.
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends



What if you get Trump's forcasted inflation? Then your millions will be worth thousands. Keep the land and sell the cars.
 
It's possible, but I doubt it will happen.

If it does bring it on and I'll change my game plan. real estate will be gold in that scenario, those with good credit will make a fortune on borrowed money. my problem is mine is paid for and I'm not gutsy enough to go on a borrowing spree.


The trick will be knowing when it's going to end, sell right before the meltdown. I figured it out and did that in the last run up and did very very damn well at it, my mistake was thinking with a good down I would be safe so I carried too much paper. I saw the crash coming but it was more of an atomic trainwreck than a crash so I got more dumped back than I wanted.

I learned a valuble lesson , it can be worse than your worst estimates. I won't make that mistake again.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON May-30-12 AT 11:40PM (MST)[p]Come on guys do you really think either side is going to do anything!! We are all puppets in there show politicians are douche bags plain and simple and they do nothing for us period. It is every man for himself!! Politicians may start out with good intentions, but it doesn't take them long to get sucked in to the BS of washington!! Just my 2 cents so take it for whats its worth. By the way good luck to all who drew tags so far!!!!!
 
Neither side can do anything, its a cycle and Washington is owned by big business and the well connected, it almost ended and started anew in 08, but not quite, so I only see a more Mexican style economy coming, a shrinking standard of living for most and the wealthy will just keep gaining, probably no big spike in overall inflation just a deflated middle class and a declining America.
 
Piper
Have you taken a look at Europe? They have everything you want and their house is on fire.

Nemont
 
>Neither side can do anything, its
>a cycle and Washington is
>owned by big business and
>the well connected, it
>almost ended and started anew
>in 08, but not quite,
>so I only see a
>more Mexican style economy coming,
>a shrinking standard of living
>for most and the wealthy
>will just keep gaining, probably
>no big spike in overall
>inflation just a deflated middle
>class and a declining America.
>


Piper, why always the hard on for the wealthy. Most of the wealthy I know have worked their asses off.
When everyone else was screwing around, financing new cars, buying toys they were saving their money, making smart decisions and now they have something.

Oh yea, we always here about inherited wealth, because that is what the politicians can use to gain traction with their take from the rich mantra.

I look at those that have made something and then I look at the leaches and I can tell you what group is more appealing to me.

The problem is that our current political system realizes the leaches have just as good a vote at someone that works hard and they are playing that line well.

***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
>It's possible, but I doubt it
>will happen.
>
>If it does bring it on
>and I'll change my game
>plan. real estate will be
>gold in that scenario, those
>with good credit will make
>a fortune on borrowed money.
> my problem is mine
>is paid for and I'm
>not gutsy enough to go
>on a borrowing spree.
>
>
>The trick will be knowing when
>it's going to end, sell
>right before the meltdown. I
>figured it out and did
>that in the last run
>up and did very very
>damn well at it, my
>mistake was thinking with a
>good down I would be
>safe so I carried too
>much paper. I saw the
>crash coming but it was
>more of an atomic trainwreck
>than a crash so I
>got more dumped back than
>I wanted.
>
>I learned a valuble lesson ,
>it can be worse than
>your worst estimates. I won't
>make that mistake again.
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends

It is good to have gold. The best line I ever read about gold ownership/investment was.

"Do not buy gold to make money, buy gold to have money"


Do not look at it as an investment to make gains, but, as a way to preserve what you have earned.

***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
Inherited wealth is the gov's jackpot; it's the equivalent of them coming in with ski masks and guns and stealing a man's legacy. It's basically one big ponzi scheme.
 
I have never liked the gold thing, I said that at $500 too and look what happened.

If things really go to hell what is the most worthless substance on earth ? gold. even dog crap can be used as fertilizer.

I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't buy gold if I had it to do over but I won't at these prices. it just makes no sense to me, the tougher things get the more valuble something useless becomes. I still think my theory is correct, it's just that things will have to get a hell of a lot worse before symbolic wealth is less important than tangible wealth. the indians traded their land away for beads, buying gold rather than land may be the same thing someday.

Stay thirsty my friends
 
Gold will hold value after land has lost value. It is mobile.

After gold loses value the only thing that would have value would be guns and ammo.

Even I do not think our outlook is that bleak though, but, throughout history a some of the crazies were right.

As history goes, we are due for a good blood letting.

The progressives have convinced the sheeple that we have evolved to much for that.

The only thing I have to see to remind me that is not true is the LA riots and in the aftermath of Katrina when the 3 Nazis (I mean LEOs) tackled the little old lady to take her pistol.
 
If gold ever has value and land doesn't it will only be because it can be made into bullets.


I don't see as much upside in gold as I do other commodities or real estate. nothing goes up that fast and that far without a correction.

As soon as we see a definite recovery people will dump their symbolic wealth to invest in assets that produce income. there are only two questions , if and when. if it doesn't happen nothing will be worth anything so what do you have to lose.

I don't see a bright future for our nation, but I have the luxury of being honest with myself because I don't have any kids.
 
Land will never not have value, it might fluctuate but still hold value; that stems from a growing population and expansion. What happens if for some odd reason gold isn't what backs currency. The goal is to get hammered with capital gains to the point that it really doesn't bother you anymore; gold isn't going to get that done. Mineral rights are trumping the heck out of gold right now.
 
Probably so. gold is only worth what someone thinks it's worth that day. it has no value or earning potential beyond a collective emotional concensus.

Land to live and grow on and things you need to survive or to improve your quality of life are what will have value when the primitive infactuation with shiny things is long gone. granted that won't be real soon.





Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-12 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p]Gold is going to be around for a very, very long time. It is just another way of playing currency trading with the added benefit that around the entire world, gold is seen as a store of value. It is no different than a dollar except a cental bank can't print more gold.

All assets: gold, land, houses, cattle, wheat, dollars, Euro's, whatever, are only valued at what we all agree they are worth. If you think land can't lose then you were not around in the 70's in many areas. Land will always be worth something but that doesn't mean that gold won't be worth something also because of the fact that it is portable, easy to convert to any other asset and it has world wide acceptance.

I don't hold gold because I always think it is kind of a paranoid investment but if the SHTF, I would rather have some gold then some dollars in my pocket.

No you can't eat but you can't eat your house or your dollars either.

Nemont
 
I agree gold will always have some value because there will always be some crows with something to trade for it. but I think it's a poor long term commodity to hold.

While gold has done well for those with little imagination or willingness to take chances, lots of better investments have been made and will be made. I remember when the local gold operations couldn't operate at the prices at the time, that will happen again and when it does all the goldmembers will wonder how the radio ads misinformed them about their can't lose investment.





Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-12 AT 10:57AM (MST)[p]Gold doesn't pay a dividend, doesn't expand with a growing economy, doesn't provide a chance for compounding. Lot's to not like about gold but that shouldn't be a reason to hold gold.

Since the beginning of time gold is easily transferable and easily convertable into other things. It is portable and accepted.

Again it is also a paranoid investment IMO but there can be money made in gold but only if you play the long/short sides of the gold market.

I am currently short oil, like I said for a couple of reason. I am short the Euro but I sold it short against the Canadian dollar not the U.S. dollar because as the Federal Reserve board member said the other day, "We are the prettiest horse in the glue factory".

I am long in a couple of different pieces of real estate due to the oil field activity and the shortage of housing around here. I just bought into a partnership building apartments and we will have both positive cash flow the minute they are completed but the ROI is far better than letting cash sit in the bank.

I agree that those without imagination are going to get clobbered. There really are alot of things one can do to make money right now but I find alot of guys and gals are too saddled with debt they owe on cars and vacations rather than putting there money to productive uses.

All that being said, I would be doing the same whether Obama gets reelected or if Romney wins as I don't think there is any difference between the two. I don't know that Obama deserves another term but I am not sold that Romney will do a single thing different. Both have to deal with a congress that is unable to do big things and we need some big things done.

Nemont
 
I don't think Romney is any different either, but the reality is americans don't want anything different. they talk the talk but when the talk turns to soft forms of austerity they shut up fast.

Romney might give the investor sitting on the sideline the confidence something is going to change and therefore give the economy a bump. it's half economics and half attitude that drives our economy. I'm not sure the numbers can be manipulated but the attitude can.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
I don't think anything would change for me either if Obama is re-elected, I just don't want him to appoint anyone else to the SCOTUS.

As far as investments in land, if the only way to make $ off it is to sell it, it's not that great of an investment unless it's getting broken down into .1ac lots and sold at a premium. Location is important, for instance, our area is getting gridded with pipelines & O&G wells and companies are willing to pay out the rear for pipeyards and land for equipment storage. You bleed the O&G companies and add to your acreage....
 
tx_packmule has soom very good points on making money with land.

In the later 60's my father in law purchased a wharehouse with 2-3 acres in the San Fernando Valley area of Southern CA. for 75 thousand. He rented the warehouse out for years and the rent payments more then made him back his investment.
In the late 90's he was approached by a manufacture company that was next door to his warehouse. They wanted to expand but had to have more employee parking due to building codes for the area. They offered to buy his land & warehouse and was going to raze the warehouse and turn it into a big parking lot. He accepted and they payed him 750 thousand. Good investment for 30 years.

RELH
 
I can net $1000 off irrigated land right now and the value is increasing again as well. just like stocks land profits depend on what you buy. my commercial land holdings are dead weight.

More americans have made money on land than they have gold in the last 200 years, I'll bet anything on that. it's still a great investment because they're not making or mining anymore of it.







Stay thirsty my friends
 
I think you both are saying the exact same thing, one choose to buy dirt the other gold. Probably all agree that cash will be highly devalued.

Nemont
 
No doubt the US dollar will take a dive like none we've seen, but I won't bet on when. as bad as our situation is we're still where the world comes when they're scared.

I like land because it's been good to me and it's what I know. I'm not sure what else to go into, the world economy we now live and play in is a new game nobody seems to be able to get a handle on. 10 years ago if you'd told me some 2 bit nation like Greece would be screwing with our economy I'd have said you're crazy.








Stay thirsty my friends
 
>Enough people understand Obama is not
>much of a liberal and
>this economy is the result
>of years and years
>of rightwing policies not anything
>Obama did,things like tax cuts
>to pay for wars, the
>drug war, and the rightwing
>health care system, all the
>crybaby rightwingers in the world
>can't lie enough to convince
>smart people that Obama is
>anything more than a moderate.
>
>
>The powerful rightwing is able to
>stifle any meaningful changes to
>our economy, therefor it can't
>really get much better, heavily
> concentrated wealth is also
>at the heart of our
>problem and nothing can be
>done about that.
>
> The great depression went on
>for years and the only
>thing that snapped us out
>of it was WW2 and
>the heavy hand of government,
>after that the economy
>lasted for a long time,basicly
>until 2008 when our greed
>finally caught up to us
>again, yes its a cycle,
>but don't look for another
>world war to change things
>this time around.

This is the most assinine post I have ever read on this forum bar none. Flat out lies for the most part. Good grief.

"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
I don't care for the rate our population is increasing either but it won't effect our spending habits.

If you want to compete with Hopsing you have to live like Hopsing. it's all good until you think about it.





Stay thirsty my friends
 
Yes it will, more pop means more debt bc of how & why it's increasing. The more people you try to pull out of poverty the more money will leave and be invested elsewhere. Before long Hopsing will be more invested in the US than the US is with the ability to crash our markets on a whim & welcome to new modern warfare where shots don't even need to be fired.
 
More people means more need for everything, but per capita debt should hold the same. only $138,585 per taxpayer today.

We made the choice to sell our souls to China when we exported our jobs to them then borrowed the money from them to buy their crap. if it's not too late to turn it around it soon will be. but it increases profits today and hey isn't that all that matters in Walmerica?









Stay thirsty my friends
 
Dude is that not what GM is doing to us after being bailed out by Obama with tax payer money.

RELH
 
RELH- do you have a vendetta against blue collar workers?, I realize your another silver spoon California elitist, but cut us a little slack.
Your rightwing idol GWB bailed out wall street financial giants and the money that entailed dwarfed what GM recieved, yet I never hear a peep about that from you or the other rightwingers. you constantly claim that Obama is waiting to take your guns away despite the fact that he has never mentioned a word about anything of the sort, yet you ignore the talk about selling public land by close contenders for the GOP presidental nomination?

Just because some people arent wealthy doesn't mean they are criminals, just because some people care about other values besides monetary gain doesn't mean they are lawbreakers.
 

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