Why Obama

Cadillacs made by Hopsing for Hopsing is bad why?


China is a producer, you wing nuts have forgotten that producing creates jobs and effects your economy.

If China can't make their own cars they'll go to another brand they can. we could learn from that but we're too stupid we just blame GM for staying in the market.








Stay thirsty my friends
 
Difference is the banks paid back all of TARP and GM didn't even come close to paying us back. They are buying out pensions to eliminate them and the government forced union ownership of the company. The buyouts could be $1 million for a worker with a $60000 per year pension payout. Want to guess who is going to end up with that bill? Big difference.
 
Do you underestand the concept of a loan? as long as we're getting loan shark rates and we do get paid back what is your hurry? if GM can let zipperheads build and buys cars in china and make a profit at it they can pay you back faster. you want to hobble them so you can cut back on the size of the crows you're eating.

If you want to be technical GM doesn't owe you a dime, the government borrowed it from China and you're never going to pay it back, but I'll bet you GM does . it's Hopsing's money, let him have his Caddy.






Stay thirsty my friends
 
I will take the bet that GM never pays back it's loan completely. What is the bet? You understand that the loan was not a tradition bank loan but rather a purchase of the "New" GM stock which our government still holds. That stock has to reach a value of around $55 or $56 to just break even and is currently trading at $21.84. There is no way GM is going to double in value in any time frame that return positive results to our government.

It is done and over with, nothing can be done about the GM bailout, it does no good to argue it's merits as it is water under the bridge.

I can guarantee that though that our government will never get back the money it spent on GM 100% and will bet what ever you are willing to bet.

It is not Hopsings money, it is owed by my kids and grandkids and all that really was done is our generation reduced the future chances of the next generation.

Nemont
 
GM has a better chance of paying the zipperheads back than we do and you know it.

How and if GM pays back in full will be hard to figure, but it will be a good investment that I will bet on. even if through some slip of the books they come up as little short what are the thousands if not millions of jobs the US auto industry still provides worth? what if all those workers were unemployed and on public health care.

This picture needs to be looked at as a business venture not missed pork the union opportunity. besides, I'll invest a buck in my country without stress wetting the bed . lots more of Hopsing's money I've borrowed has gone to countries I don't like than what went into GM who I do like.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
You said that GM would pay back their loan 100% and wanted to bet, I say they won't even come close and I am willing to wager. What is the bet?

I said I am over whether it was good or bad but I am comfortable in my side of the bet that our government will never be paid back by GM.

Invest a buck or don't invest a buck, but let's bet.

Nemont
 
At least GM is creating jobs. So what they are in China.




2311idiot.jpg
 
Gm is creating jobs in the US too, why can the asians put their crap in our market but we can't play in theirs? a buck is a buck, if they make it in china off the chinese so be it.

I say GM will pay back, I won't say how or when. if you want a check that may not happen. I'll bet you a bathide and lets do two while we're at it, I'll bet GM pays their debt down to 25% before we do? we on? we don't expect anyone to pay anything but if a move that saves thousands if not millions of US jobs doesn't pay back in full within 48 months you call it a failure.









Stay thirsty my friends
 
Find where in this post I said it was a failure. I don't think governments role is to bailout business. I understand why it happened, have read in detail how it was strutured and I understand there is not a single thing I say that matters to the process.

I don't think we will ever pay our debt down to 25% or even that would be a good thing. That wasn't part of your orginal bet.

-"If you want to be technical GM doesn't owe you a dime, the government borrowed it from China and you're never going to pay it back, but I'll bet you GM does" -.

If you really want to be technical, the money to fund all this was borrowed from the future earnings of my kids and grandkids. China doesn't hold the note to GM, the taxpayers do and they will pay it through reduced future earnings and an inflated dollar.

I will give GM the same terms as a 10 year Treasury note. In 2018 they still will not have made the U.S. Taxpayer whole on the loan they recieved.

I can't find anything that says paying down the national debt is tied to GM. Let's make two bathides that GM doesn't pay back our government and that even by 2018 they will not have paid off the taxpayers. If you want to be techincal they have a loan that never has to be paid off in the form of stock. Our government is not going to ever make back even it's principal on that stock holding.

The only thing dumber is that now Romney is saying he will sell it regardless of what the price of the stock is at.

So let's bet the two bathides or three or whatever you want, leave what the Federal government is doing with it's debt out of it and just be whether GM makes it's debt to the taxpayers good. I say no way they will even get the principal back.

Nemont
 
>So let's bet the two bathides
>or three or whatever you
>want, leave what the Federal
>government is doing with it's
>debt out of it and
>just be whether GM makes
>it's debt to the taxpayers
>good. I say no
>way they will even get
>the principal back.
>
>Nemont

Crickets chirping....
 
No doubt, it's funny how the great betting fool suddenly wants to change the terms of his original offering. Put up or shut up 440 you retard!
 
You're on, but not if an idiot like Romney sells the stock premature that's not Gm's fault.


We'll consider the loan repaid when it is or not repaid when GM defaults .

In this bet regaurdless of the outcome you get the jobs and revenue they produce for the government as a freebie . in a normal business venture capital raised as a result of an investment is considered income, for some reason when union busting is involved that revenue is void we can only look at the loan amount.


You have more confidence in GM than you do us since you won't take the other bet, I guess than means I better learn chinese.




Stay thirsty my friends
 
Do you know any sane person with an ounce of financial acumen that would take a bet about the largest debtor nation in the history of the world paying off it's debt? There is a difference between a risk and a gamble. A risk, ie $200 on whether GM pay back their debt one can bet on, a gamble ie is like whether the U.S. government pays it's debt off. I don't gamle, I take risks.

I agree that the bet would be off if Romney sells the government stake at a loss on purpose.

So the money our government has tied up in GM is venture capital now? Can you find where our government is in the venture capital business and tell from where that authority arises?

It has nothing to do with union busting. GM got all kinds of freebies where if they were not in bed with our government they would have to account as expenses.

What revenue do we get from from GM? The don't pay a dvidend, on the stock we own they don't pay interest on that money, the value of the investment has decreased rather than increased and that doesn't include the opportunity costs.

Default of GM is not an option because that is a forever bet with no set time horizon. I won't take an open ended bet. I gave you far more generous terms than any banker, bond holder or commercial paper guy would have in using a 10 year treasury note as a basis.

Nemont
 
Why should Gm be held to a higher standard than we are? I'll go you one better, I say what money GM pays back will not go directly on account to pay down our debt, we'll absorb it into the general fund. point being, what the hell difference does it make when or if they pay back.

10 years is hardly enough time to pay in full, the company not only has to work it's way out of bankruptcy it has to invest a fortune into R&D and the means to produce the product every year just to keep up with world competition.


I'll take your 10 year timeline but not for full repayment, I'll say they owe less then than they do now. that's a hell of a lot better than the rest of the nation.

Stay thirsty my friends
 
That is not even a bet. You do realize that 10 years without any interest and buying up stock is more generous terms than GM has ever had from nearly e Rey source of financing in their history.

Just because I don't want you to lose face for a bs bet I will still put up the $200. Whom do you want to hold the money?


If Romney sell regardless of the market then the bet is off. If in 10 years our government has not been paid Off I win. If GM still has paid off I 10 years you win. Not whether they owe less because if they were in the commercial market all of their debt would be rolled over almost every 30 days in the commercial paper market

Nemont
 
You're trying to oversimplify this, this isn't the 6 easy payment plan and you either make them or you don't.

When and if they pay back may be a matter of how you play the nutshell game more than counting cash. I don't expect it will be cash in a bag dropped off on the capitol steps as you want.

I don't give 2 craps about the $200 I spend more than that in one day at the clays range. I just like bets where a winner is clear. the loan is considered payed when the government accepts the final payment and clears it off the books, I win . if the loan is written off as a bad debt you win. that's the only way to know if it's paid or not.

You seem to have no interst in the fact Gm is providing thousands of living wage jobs for it's employees and it's subs employeees, who all pay taxes. the interest doesn't mean crap, what GM's success brings in outside the loan is far more than what we're not paying on the money we loaned them . as the old saying goes it doesn't matter what a thing cost it's what it pays that counts.


Check this out, this isn't a written on a bar napkin type loan and neither is how it's paid back.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/03/22/when-will-gm-pay-us-back/







Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-12 AT 09:11AM (MST)[p]I dont care about the money either. Costs more for a day of fishing on Fort Peck. I will bet you that GM never pays the government back. There is no way for them to pay with cash as they swapped us stock in the new GM. As the article states that stock has to reach $53 to break even. That ain't happening.

Nemont
 

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