Wild Horse Fix

[sagebrush]

I asked a friend what she thought we could do about wild horses. She is a retired college professor, PHD, mule skinner and save-a-horse adovcate. I was surprised by the answer. She says the adopt a horse program just doesn't work and thinks round up and pen is worse. She would support a program of selective hunting, culling the weak specimens, to get the numbers down to a small, healthy, representative herd. She abhors the thought of horses being sold for meat and has worked against horse auctions known for sending animals to slaughter. She has no love for the BLM and thinks control needs to be at the state level. She is pretty well connected with the horse community nationwide.

Do you think we could rest control of wild horses away from the BLM and develop a management plan where the wild horse has a place instead of the wholesale protections they have now? I wonder if we could form a coalition of horse people, wildlife managers and sportsmen to put such a plan in place.

 

[Cornhusker]

Interesting Sage. We have a horse type lady on whose ranch I hunt who also owns ranches in several western states. She has pushed legislation for this to happen and for the Feds to release control. She doesn't think it will happen. The only thing she would like differently is to reopen the horse slaughter plants. I personally agree with this, with the idea they aren't doing anything productive now with them so make a policy change. The French still serve it in many restaurants market it to Europe win situation.

 

[elkun]

eat um. do whats right for the horse, not some save the world nuts,,,,

 

[Trix4me]

Horse steak grilled with garlic a little salt and pepper, not bad.

 

[Phantom Hunter]

Selective hunting/culling is a great option, however shooting them and leaving them lay is a waste of good protein that is needed by many folks in this world. Our aversion to eating horse is a cultural thing. I hate to shoot and leave lay any animal that is fit for someone to eat. The horse slaughter plants provided a place for horse who had been crippled to go and not be wasted. There are many horses in back yards and pastures that need to be euthanize/culled the same goes for most of the wild/feral horses and burros. As it is now those animals have to be disposed of and the meat is wasted. Why not let it go to feed those in need???

 

[elkun]

phantom 'hunter. plus 1 ive ate horse. its good,,,,

 

[ZIGGER]

dream on......it'll never happen

 

[Murdy47]

As I understand it, now that the horse slaughter plants are closed, the horses go on a truck and get driven down to a plant in Mexico.

 

[elkfromabove]

When you think about it, horses and burroes are strict vegetarians and shouldn't taste much different than any of the other vegetarian animals we eat. It amazes me that we're willing to eat chickens, turkeys, ducks, pigs, bear, fish, crabs and lobsters, all of which eat some nasty stuff, but we feel that horse meat is somehow inferior. I've never eaten horse meat, that I know of, but I would regard it no differently than beef, lamb, venison, elk or moose (or the ones mentioned above) which I have eaten. Pass that medium rare whithers steak down here, please!

 

[NMPaul]

>Do you think we could rest
>control of wild horses away
>from the BLM and develop
>a management plan where the
>wild horse has a place
>instead of the wholesale protections
>they have now? I wonder
>if we could form a
>coalition of horse people, wildlife
>managers and sportsmen to put
>such a plan in place.
>


When pigs fly.

Horse people (suburb type) are some of the craziest people there are.
Between them, peta types, logic is not part of the equation.
They utilize legal means and they will push legislation that the average stupid voter will not educate themselves on.

 

[elkantlers]

Manage them as game animals. I guarantee if you make tags for them available, there will be more people apply for the tags than there are tags available.

 

[greatwestern]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-13 AT 00:01AM (MST)[p]Of course its a great idea to wisely manage the 'wild' (feral) horse, of course...but, as alluded to by several above, I dont think that logical pegasus will fly anytime soon...the real horse Looneys can make the Wolfies seem relatively sane...might as well proffer up the idea of hunting their children

I currently own 4 horses and two giant donkeys, and have had equines my whole life...and I wouldn't have it any other way. BUT, neither belong on the range, except for purposes of human endeavor...especially not feral in large number. Incredibly competetive with, and detrimental to, native ungulate populations. They are generally bigger, stronger, and more aggresive than their indigenous counterparts. They are also quite prolific in terms of reproductive capacity...its a losing battle

We've often joked about the 'trophy rug' quality of some of the burros weve encountered while desert sheep hunting, as well as their potential for the ironwood Barby. I remember a big black Jack with black on coal zebra stripes up his legs and prominent wither and dorsal stripes; also had a black face, no white nose...very striking. Needless to say, we didn't shoot

I used to eat horse a lot when I raced bikes in france...no problem with it whatsoever. It is extremely lean and a bit flavorless, but will adapt nearly imperceptably to most any lean beef recipe (with added fat of some sort)...I always just pan seared rare in olive oil with salt and pepper with a vinagarette salad. Good stuff. Great sport protein, very easy to digest.

A coach I had thought that aside from wild ungulate venison, horse was the finest meat available (in europa) for training athletes...as much as we butted heads in general, I would have to agree with him in that opinion

edit** I will say that them damn burros make some superb highway trails through the broken malpais and hill of the desert ranges...but in my view, their engineering work is largely done and their workforce should be scaled WAY back to a few small maintanence crews

 

[hilltophunter]

We don't need to manage the wild mustang herds, we need to remove them from the wild. They were not native here, a good number of the herds were somewhat managed back in the U.S. Cavalry days by going out and shooting all the stallions in a herd. Then the Cavalry would bring thoroughbred stallions for the towns people to run with the mustang mares. They would round up the yearlings and 2 year olds every year and have an auction where the cavalry would buy most of them back for mounts.

The first horses to land on this continent were brought here on ships. They aren't like the deer, elk, moose, etc. They are livestock, plain and simple. They are not a pet like a dog or cat and these wild horse nuts try to make people think they are. I'd like to see what one of them thinks about these wild horses after walking into a pen with a wild stallion and getting run down and stomped or bitten.

They make poor using/saddle horses and are pretty much worthless except for the meat. I was in Fort Worth in 2010 for the NCHA cutting futurity and they had the Borden Milk Cow in the exibition hall that was as tame as a puppy, but we could slaughter that animal because its considered livestock, but we can't slaughter a kicking, biting, no good mustang?? The point is that you can tame a lot of different livestock to be docile, but they are still livestock!

Just doesn't make sense, but then again the mustang advocates are the same people that want wolves to run the hills and kill all the Elk and Deer in the Wester States.

It sounds like your friend is well contected with the mustang horse community nationwide but not the actual horse community of well bred using horses wether it be for ranching, performance, racing, etc. Most real horsemen "not city folk dudes" wouldn't own a mustang. There are a few mustangs that would make a decent saddle horse, but I've personally never seen one I would own and neither would any of the horsemen that I know.

If these mustang lovers want to keep them around maybe they should adopt a herd and cover the tax burden for the rest of us that don't like the thought of our hard earned money going to mutty, kicking, biting worthless mustangs.

Sorry if you think this reply is blunt, but honestly most of the actual horse people and professional trainers (I mean actual professionals not self proclaimed professionals) connected nationwide would probably have a similar view of the mustangs.

Just some food for thought.

Maybe this will strike some conversation on here?

 

[idelkslayer]

There are too many people that are overcome with orgasmic rapture just by thinking about wild horses to ever allow a culling program to be approved.

Science will never win in this arguement as long as people hold an emotional attachment to horses.

The problem is that the horses need to be recognized for what they are, a feral non native and destructive livestock animal, and not some romanticized symbol of freedom and tree hugging goodness. As with other feral non native species they should be eradicated.

 

[dreaminbouthuntin]

i dont think i've read more asinine idiotic comments in my life then when it comes talking about wild horses.

non native? really?? thats the stance your going to take? so, you pick and choose which NON NATIVE species stays and which one goes?

ok, fine. Kill off the Phesants, Elk, Turkeys, and any other species that inhabits the west that is not an actual native animal to the area. no, Elk are not native to the west. they are a plains animal. hence the efforts to re establish them back east in their Natural Habitat.

do wild horses need population control? yes, but some of you sound like a bunch of heathen rednecks. SMH

I am all for horse harvest for Euro markets.

but here's the deal on horses. they can be pets, friends, companions, they are linked to humans throughout history, carrying men into battle, ect..

these are not just 'wild' animals. they are a domesticated species. going out and 'hunting' horses..? for what purpose? let them lay after you've shot them? what a waist. thats horrific and will NEVER happen.

i've owned one crazy ass b!tch of a mare and she was sold to slaughter. no reason to sell her to ride or keep her. couldnt turn her loose and she wasnt fit to ride. it was the best option for her, that or bucking stock for rodeo.

these horses cannot be treated like Deer, Moose, Antelope, elk, ect. they have been domesticated. with that comes responsiblity to manage their populations with respect to the horses. whats the harm in that? respect.

shooting them up and letting them lie? absolutley not.

its sad to see these or any animal go to slaughter, but sometimes, thats just the best option.

as for the poster that called horse owners crazy.. you gear heads are one's to talk..

 

[deerslayer88]

Elk not native to the west guess the Eastern elk (now extinct) was the only elk species and they just migrated west.

 

[CAelknuts]

I haven't eaten horse, but I would not hesitate to do so. I have eaten zebra, and it was good. Hell, I've eaten camel and leopard and a bunch of other stuff most people will never try. The leopard was pretty good. Camel was bad!

 

[idelkslayer]

Elk have always been native to the west and the rocky mountains. Although certainly in lower numbers than are currently present. It is true that large herds of elk were present on the plains when Lewis and Clark passed through but they encountered elk all the way to the Pacific. When they wintered at Fort Clatsop in Oregon they ate so much elk that they were pretty much sick of it.

The real issue with wild horses is not scientific because they along with wolves are a creature that many people become emotionally attached to. That is why we can never expect a kill order to shoot and let lie. Unlike pigs in texas where the destruction they cause is well known and it is encouraged to kill as many as possible. The difference, pigs aren't cute and most people don't feel any emotion for pigs.

 

[nontypical]

Looks like we need to get Diane Feinstein involved.She knows how to remove a non-native species.She even knows how to exterminate them.

 

[sagebrush]

I don't believe any wildlife agency would allow shoot and let lay. Horses should be harvested like any other animal. Once you have the meat home, you can give it to whom you wish (including food banks) or consume it yourself.

 

[Longun]

That would really look nice in the trophy room..a fully body mount of a Jug-headed horse with a freeze brand on the neck...

 

[2lumpy]

As a youth our family raised horses for sale. Horse sales was the primary revenue for the family. 100 or so mares and three studs.

Our parents were people that lived through hard times in the 1930's. They ate and fed us anything that was deemed eatable at the time, calf brains, beef liver, heart, pig skin, cow tongue, headcheese, chicken gizzards, turkey necks, along with t-bone, ribeye, ribs, roasts and hamburger. My father dug the marrow out of the bones and ate it. Made my wife gag to watch him, but to him it was just all meat, nothing gross or disgusting about it.

Once in a while a horse wouldn't break to ride or it was just a knothead. Some are just born that way, these kind aren't even fit to attempt to buck for rodeos, they'd hurt somebody or themselves. Now and again one would come along that no one could do anything with. We'd simply fatten them up on grain, just like one of the steers, when in the fall we'd butcher it along with what ever else we were planning to eat that winter. I always thought it had a slightly milder (sweeter?) flavor than beef but as a kid I really couldn't tell the difference. It was just meat on the table, like all the rest.

I've heard stories about guys that have found a mustang that rode well and was tough as nails but for everyone I've heard about that was any good, I've heard of dozens of others that would chew your arm off, if given half a chance. I wouldn't have one on the place. No different than a ferrel cat. Try cuddling up to one of those and see how that works. And, I'll bet wild horse doesn't taste a lot different than ferrel cat either. If you are what you eat, mustangs ain't eat'en all that well, on most of these western desert ranges.

Round up 90% of them, send them to a meat packer and let them turn them into something worthwhile. Keep a few wild ones, for old times sake, but like any other animal on the range, manage it or you ruin it. Ruins both the animal and the range.

If you leave a beautiful rose garden to it's self, it too will turn into a nasty worthless thorn bush that no one can enjoy, and it don't take long to happen!

Horses/mustangs are no different. We want'em, we got to take care of them or they turn into thorn bushes like anything else. It ain't going to be 1840, ever again. Get over it!

 

[bullskin]

Just found this post, and I am glad to see that this issue is on other's mind as well. I can say that the deer habitat in northern Nevada is already improving following last year's removal of a significant number of horses from the region. Even in this dry year I am seeing regeneration of bitter brush, improved water sources, and a lot less bare soil. While horses were reintroduced to this area with the arrival of Europeans, today's mustangs are genetically indistinct from Asian horses, which means that they are essentially the same species as those that existed here in the US ten-thousand years ago. The bottom line is that they will likely be determined to be native, not introduced, species on this basis. However, this is not to say that the ecosystem to which they have returned is the same as the one they once inhabited. Gone are the saber-toothed cats, dire wolves and American lion. Today's horses have no effective natural predators, save man. While horses appear well-suited to survival in the western US, many of the native species that remain here today are not equally well-suited to coexistence with the horse and suffer as a result. So, the question really isn't whether or not horses are native to the US, but rather whether or not they are native to the western ecosystem as it exists today. This is one argument that those who would limit horse numbers may pursue in combatting the efforts of horse advocates pushing for unlimited numbers. In light of a recent critique of their horse management plan, BLM will most likely begin looking for alternative means of population control. Western hunters must keep pressure on BLM and local politicians to apply chemical/physical birth control measures if distant urbanites succeed in limiting the number of round-ups, as seems likely from this point forward.