WILL YOU??? HAVE YOU??? WILL YOU NOT??? SELF REGULATE???

elkassassin

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
37,055
This Might Get Personal Nilly & It's Not Directed At You!

You Can Take The 5th If You Need To!

I Know Of Several Members Here On MM That Do & Will SELF REGULATE When It Comes To Hunting Mule Deer!

I'm Not Gonna Name Names,I Know Who Several Of You Are!

I'm On The List Of The: I Do SELF REGULATE!

But I'm Perty Sure We're Out-Numbered!

And It's OK!

Not Saying You're Doing Anything Wrong By Not SELF-REGULATING!

I Know Filling That Tag With A PISSCUTTER & Getting It Posted On Facebook & IG Is Mighty Important To Alot Of People!

Just Wondering Who Will?

And Who Won't?

I Promise You I Won't Be Mad At you No Matter Which Way You Roll!

POST EM UP!
 
I'm guessing your talking about general deer. You didn't specify.
I self-regulate for the first while and then about half the time If I haven't gotten something bigger, I shoot something the last few days. I like the meat. we eat it. I won't apologize.

1000007349.jpg
 
I choose to kill what I want. Sometimes I pass nice bucks looking for a giant, sometimes I am happy with a small or young buck.

I am under no illusion that passing a deer will do anything for populations that are down.

If anything I might pass a buck that I personally will look for the next year, or save it for a buddy who wants to find it later.
 
You are correct in saying it is personal. I don't like the idea of telling someone what they can or can't shoot any more than I like the idea of someone telling me what I can or can't shoot.

Personally, I don't find fulfillment or perceive any increased value in the hunting experience by killing a smaller buck. I've shot a buck below my personal standard before and felt regret. So I don't do that anymore. I love the meat, but the challenge of finding a bigger buck and then being able to capitalize on the opportunity is what I seek more than just the kill.

The only time I am frustrated by someone that decides to fill their tag on a small/young buck is when the same person then proceeds to complain about not ever seeing or killing big bucks. I refrain from saying anything to them, as it isn't my place and only my opinion which wasn't asked for.
 
@elkassassin , this IMO is the problem with tag cuts. We fail to look at what cutting opportunities does to the mental aspect of hunting. When you can't draw for multiple years, the "pressure" to hunt harder, not go empty handed, etc is a lot different than when you know you'll be back next year.

Just taking from my example. I haven't hunted deer in UT since 2019, not for a lack of trying. That last hunt was while in the dedicated hunter program. During those years I let a lot of bucks walk I would have otherwise harvested. Why? Because I knew I had opportunities ahead.

Experience is the number one way to learn. It's hard to pass a "piscutter" buck in the excitement of the moment when you haven't learned how to do so.

With all that being said, I'm fine with whatever anyone decides to take with their tag. Doesn't give me anxiety either way.
 
I second ridge’s request. What does this even mean?

I could have killed at least 3 different bucks from exactly where I was at in the moment last year. It wouldn’t have required getting closer. I didn’t even shoulder a weapon to look through the scope on any. There are others I could have pursued to try and get closer and elected not to. Is that self-regulating?

I had a bull in the crosshairs of my rifle at less than 230 yards for over 90 seconds last year that was bigger than the one I ultimately killed, and I elected to not kill it as it was early in the hunt and I wanted more fun. Is that self-regulating? Does it cancel out the prior self-regulation because I shot a bull that wouldn’t pass Bessy’s approval a couple weeks later?

This is a silly question, IMO. I’ve been big game hunting for multiple decades and have passed up dozens upon dozens, if not hundreds of animals I could have killed. I have also elected to kill what some would term “small” animals because I wanted to kill that animal and could legally and ethically do it.

Anyone telling another person what they should and should not kill based upon inches needs a swift kick to the junk. These people are not true sportsmen, IMO.
 
And Once Again You Don't Listen & Come In With A TUDE!

Did You Watch The Podcast With The Wyoming Guys?

Re-F'N-Read What I Posted Up Above!

I Don't Give A Flyin Rats Ass What you Shoot!

But Even At That I Just Knew You'd Never Hold Back!

I Said:

I Promise You I Won't Be Mad At you No Matter Which Way You Roll!

And I Quote:

I had a bull in the crosshairs of my rifle at less than 230 yards for over 90 seconds last year that was bigger than the one I ultimately killed,

Rifle?

Or SmokePole?






Vanilla said:
I second ridge’s request. What does this even mean?

I could have killed at least 3 different bucks from exactly where I was at in the moment last year. It wouldn’t have required getting closer. I didn’t even shoulder a weapon to look through the scope on any. There are others I could have pursued to try and get closer and elected not to. Is that self-regulating?

I had a bull in the crosshairs of my rifle at less than 230 yards for over 90 seconds last year that was bigger than the one I ultimately killed, and I elected to not kill it as it was early in the hunt and I wanted more fun. Is that self-regulating? Does it cancel out the prior self-regulation because I shot a bull that wouldn’t pass Bessy’s approval a couple weeks later?

This is a silly question, IMO. I’ve been big game hunting for multiple decades and have passed up dozens upon dozens, if not hundreds of animals I could have killed. I have also elected to kill what some would term “small” animals because I wanted to kill that animal and could legally and ethically do it.

Anyone telling another person what they should and should not kill based upon inches needs a swift kick to the junk. These people are not true sportsmen, IMO.
Click to expand...
 
OK!

Gonna SPLAIN It Just A Little More For ridge & Nilly!

Any Mule Deer Hunter In This State With Any Common Sense At All Knows The Mule Deer herd Isn't Doing So Well!

Let's say You're A Semi-Seasoned To A Full Seasoned Type Of Hunter!

You Know That The Deer Herd is Not Gonna Fix Itself!

You Also Know After The Last 50 + Years Of PISS POOR Management That Hasn't Fixed Anything As Well!

You Don't Mind The Taste Of Deer Meat Or you Might Even Love The Taste Of Deer Meat But You Also Know Not Shooting A Deer Isn't Gonna Starve The Family To Death If You Don't Shoot A Deer!

You've Took Decent Bucks In Your Day & You're To A Point You Know Your Own Standards Of What Size A Buck It'll Have To Be Before Shooting Just Any Buck!

You Get to Thinking Like The Guys In The Wyoming Podcast That Maybe You'll Just SELF REGULATE & Not Shoot A Deer At All Unless A Miracle Happens & You Find The 45"ERS Bucks Brother!

AKA Helping The Suffering Deer Herd Out Just A little By Not Shooting A Deer at All!

I Know This Will SPLAIN It To You ridge!

Nilly,I'm Not So Sure?
 
elkassassin said:
OK!

Gonna SPLAIN It Just A Little More For ridge & Nilly!

Any Mule Deer Hunter In This State With Any Common Sense At All Knows The Mule Deer herd Isn't Doing So Well!

Let's say You're A Semi-Seasoned To A Full Seasoned Type Of Hunter!

You Know That The Deer Herd is Not Gonna Fix Itself!

You Also Know After The Last 50 + Years Of PISS POOR Management That Hasn't Fixed Anything As Well!

You Don't Mind The Taste Of Deer Meat Or you Might Even Love The Taste Of Deer Meat But You Also Know Not Shooting A Deer Isn't Gonna Starve The Family To Death If You Don't Shoot A Deer!

You've Took Decent Bucks In Your Day & You're To A Point You Know Your Own Standards Of What Size A Buck It'll Have To Be Before Shooting Just Any Buck!

You Get to Thinking Like The Guys In The Wyoming Podcast That Maybe You'll Just SELF REGULATE & Not Shoot A Deer At All Unless A Miracle Happens & You Find The 45"ERS Bucks Brother!

AKA Helping The Suffering Deer Herd Out Just A little By Not Shooting A Deer at All!

I Know This Will SPLAIN It To You ridge!

Nilly,I'm Not So Sure?
Click to expand...
So just to clarify are we trying to save Bucks, or are we trying help the deer herd.
 
When Was The Last Time You seen Any General Season Management Of Any Bucks Living Past The Ripe Old Age Of 3 Years Old For The Most Part?

Show Me where We've Increased Doe/Herd Numbers In Many Decades?

These Guys & Gals Don't Have Any Interest In Even Seeing Does When They've Drawed The COVETED DRATville PISSCUTTER BUCK Tag?

Some Hunters Wanna See Something Half Decent Once In A while!

You Sound Like You're Happy With A PISSCUTTER Every year!

That's Fine By Me!

Pay Close Attention To This One:

We Need To Grow More Deer Numbers!

Not Worry About A Buck To Doe Ratio That Somebody Thinks Is Too High!

elkhunter81 said:
So just to clarify are we trying to save Bucks, or are we trying help the deer herd.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
When Was The Last Time You seen Any General Season Management Of Any Bucks Living Past The Ripe Old Age Of 3 Years Old For The Most Part?

Show Me where We've Increased Doe/Herd Numbers In Many Decades?

These Guys & Gals Don't Have Any Interest In Even Seeing Does When They've Drawed The COVETED DRATville PISSCUTTER BUCK Tag?

Some Hunters Wanna See Something Half Decent Once In A while!

You Sound Like You're Happy With A PISSCUTTER Every year!

That's Fine By Me!

Pay Close Attention To This One:

We Need To Grow More Deer Numbers!

Not Worry About A Buck To Doe Ratio That Somebody Thinks Is Too High!
Click to expand...
if we are trying to grow the herd why are concerned with 45"ers and 3+ year old bucks
 
Maybe we should look at the whole deer herd instead of 45"ers. That is what i am getting at. I have no problem with anybody shooting whatever they want. Most limited entry guys give up by Tuesday and shoot whatever is closest to the road. we should have an abundance of deadheads in the nasty stuff of big mature bucks, but i haven't come across many. I just think if bucks our the main focus then the tag cutting of 30+ years now should have worked. Something bigger than hunters is hurting our deer herds
 
Should We Have Maybe Tried Some Different Management During That Time-frame?

Or Should We Just Keep Doing STUPID SSHHITT That We Already Know Doesn't Work?





elkhunter81 said:
Maybe we should look at the whole deer herd instead of 45"ers. That is what i am getting at. I have no problem with anybody shooting whatever they want. Most limited entry guys give up by Tuesday and shoot whatever is closest to the road. we should have an abundance of deadheads in the nasty stuff of big mature bucks, but i haven't come across many. I just think if bucks our the main focus then the tag cutting of 30+ years now should have worked. Something bigger than hunters is hurting our deer herds
Click to expand...
 
Due to many circumstances, I haven't hunted general season deer since 2015. I should get to shoot at least 6 bucks this year, in line with the DH program. 😁😁
 
If The Deer Population Keeps Dropping Like It's Been Dropping For 50+ Years Do You Really Think ADDING More Tags Will Just Magically Fix Everything?

I'm All For Trying Something New!

Let's Try Something SMART Just For Once!

elkhunter81 said:
I'm with you let's try something new. Are you saying you are against to keep cutting tags
Click to expand...
 
I've killed 2 general season bucks in Utah the past 15 years and zero in the last 10 years. One was wounded on the last day of the hunt and the other was the best general buck I have ever killed.

I don't tell others what to shoot and the fam has shot a lot more than I have.

But I understand what Bess is asking.

I see many that say they just want the opportunity to go out and hunt but in the end they pull the trigger on younger and younger deer ....because that is the dynamics of the herd. That doesn't seem to matter to many. I personally disagree ....thus I usually don't pull the trigger.

I do believe that guys like Vanilla don't ever have a solution or drive to better our resource. The opportunity to have a tag in their pocket out weighs the resources long term well being. They have successfully been utilized by those that mismanage the resource, its relationship that is hard to beat.
 
Well I think this is where I will excuse my self from this conversation. I seem to disagree with some on what managing the herd means. We will never change each other to set in our ways. Best of luck to yall
 
Muley_73 said:
I do believe that guys like Vanilla don't ever have a solution or drive to better our resource. The opportunity to have a tag in their pocket out weighs the resources long term well being. They have successfully been utilized by those that mismanage the resource, its relationship that is hard to beat.
Click to expand...

You need me to send you some nudes too? Or has bessy already shared at your tea party?

Let me know. I’m here to help.
 
I doubt biologist give a damn about “age class” and book deer. If they say a buck to doe ratio of what ever can support a population then it’s probably true. Unfortunately for hunters that mean tougher odds at older deer “age class” deer. Can’t have cake and eat it to I guess
 
We Could Still Have A Little Of Both If They Were Managed Properly!

And If That's The Case It's Past Damn Time For A New Biologist!



Rie bread said:
I doubt biologist give a damn about “age class” and book deer. If they say a buck to doe ratio of what ever can support a population then it’s probably true. Unfortunately for hunters that mean tougher odds at older deer “age class” deer. Can’t have cake and eat it to I guess
Click to expand...
 
Nilly Doesn't Seem To Like It When The Facts Are Layed Down In Front Of Him!

Still Waitin On Your Proposal Nilly?
 
elkassassin said:
Still Waitin On Your Proposal Nilly?
Click to expand...

How is that possible? You responded to my initial proposal on this very website less than a week ago.

Quit lying. Quit pretending. Nobody buys it.

I really am willing to discuss anything, but you have "jumped the shark" and are no longer worthy of any serious consideration by anyone. Just don't get mad, I wouldn't want to see that!
 
Come On Nilly!

The Only Proposal In your THICK Head Is RAISE THE TAGS!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

Do you Know How F'N STUPID That Sounds And Is?





Vanilla said:
How is that possible? You responded to my initial proposal on this very website less than a week ago.

Quit lying. Quit pretending. Nobody buys it.

I really am willing to discuss anything, but you have "jumped the shark" and are no longer worthy of any serious consideration by anyone. Just don't get mad, I wouldn't want to see that!
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Come On Nilly!

The Only Proposal In your THICK Head Is RAISE THE TAGS!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

Do you Know How F'N STUPID That Sounds And Is?
Click to expand...

Except I never said that. I have never typed a single time I wanted to double tags or thought that was a good idea. I also said nothing about tag numbers at all in the post that listed my starting point for managing deer in Utah. In fact, I've told you no less than 100 times I don't want to manage deer by managing hunters again.

So, with all that said, do you know how F'N stupid you sound when you lie and make things up that have never been said?

Par for the course. Stupid people say stupid things. Liars lie. Have a good night Bessy! Enjoy those pics.
 
So Nilly?

You're PUSSIN Out On Any Kind Of A Fix/Proposal?

Vanilla said:
Except I never said that. I have never typed a single time I wanted to double tags or thought that was a good idea. I also said nothing about tag numbers at all in the post that listed my starting point for managing deer in Utah. In fact, I've told you no less than 100 times I don't want to manage deer by managing hunters again.

So, with all that said, do you know how F'N stupid you sound when you lie and make things up that have never been said?

Par for the course. Stupid people say stupid things. Liars lie. Have a good night Bessy! Enjoy those pics.
Click to expand...
 
Vanilla said:
How is that possible? You responded to my initial proposal on this very website less than a week ago.

Quit lying. Quit pretending. Nobody buys it.

I really am willing to discuss anything, but you have "jumped the shark" and are no longer worthy of any serious consideration by anyone. Just don't get mad, I wouldn't want to see that!
Click to expand...

I’ll just repost this here.
 
I shoot what I want. Most of the time now days that means I am passing. Mostly try and get kids and family of deer. Might take one if it’s a special occasion and I am with someone that would enjoy the process of taking a deer like a kid or 1st time hunter.
But as long as it’s within the law I don’t care what others do with their tag.
 
elkassassin said:
This Might Get Personal Nilly & It's Not Directed At You!

You Can Take The 5th If You Need To!

I Know Of Several Members Here On MM That Do & Will SELF REGULATE When It Comes To Hunting Mule Deer!

I'm Not Gonna Name Names,I Know Who Several Of You Are!

I'm On The List Of The: I Do SELF REGULATE!

But I'm Perty Sure We're Out-Numbered!

And It's OK!

Not Saying You're Doing Anything Wrong By Not SELF-REGULATING!

I Know Filling That Tag With A PISSCUTTER & Getting It Posted On Facebook & IG Is Mighty Important To Alot Of People!

Just Wondering Who Will?

And Who Won't?

I Promise You I Won't Be Mad At you No Matter Which Way You Roll!

POST EM UP!
Click to expand...
What are we self regulating? Do you mean filling a tag at all costs. For me it is different from year to year. If one of my kids are with me I might shoot a lesser buck so they have the experience. Some days I may be feeling too lazy to pack something out a long ways. Some years I may really be jonesing for backstraps.

What I will say is I won’t be pressured by others for any reason at any time, I’m just too damn stubborn. I will hunt and shoot or pass up whatever I feel like doing so long as I’m staying within the laws. I’ve eaten a lot of tag soup over the years and had a lot of it the last few of them.

I don’t post photos or tell many yarns. I got burned out telling but mostly listening to B.S. hunting stories over the years especially when working at gun/hunting stores. I just got tired of bullschitters.

Yeah I self regulate but it isn’t always consistently in the same way. If a guy has a tag let him hunt how he will as long as he isn’t cutting corners and making it out to be some egotistical chest pounding prick measuring contest. I hate those people and they aren’t welcome at my campfire.
 
MAN-Up!

Or PUSS-Out!

Maybe Wait For A Committee To Decide For You!

Or Maybe Wait Till AI Enters The WildLife Management!

But Don't Make A Decision Yourself!

Don't Offer A Proposal!

Don't Suggest Things That Might Help!

Just Keep On Doing What You're Doing:

BITTCHING About CUTTING Tags!

Don't Do Anything That Might Help The Cutting Of More Tags!

Just Keep On Doing What You're Doing AKA Nothing!

With Your SMARTS & STRATEGIES You Should Have It All Fixed By The Start Of The 2025 Hunts!

Vanilla said:
I’ll just repost this here.
Click to expand...
 
I consider myself a self regulator on mule deer, but I could care less if a someone shoots something that makes them happy. Heck I'll even help them pack it out.

Now.... if you throw elk into the conversation, I am definitely not capable of self regulation. As mentioned in a previous thread, I shoot the first legal elk I can get close enough to. That's not entirely true I guess. I did see a spike in a nasty canyon once. I was by myself so I left him alive and happy right where he was. Not sure if you count that though in your poll........
 
The last deer I killed in Utah was in 2014 on a general muzzy tag on the Boulder unit (have killed several deer in Colorado and AZ since then). I am way past the point of "needing" to kill a deer, but I couldn't care less about what other hunters do that have a tag and do it legally.

@elkassassin - You would do your heart some good and will probably live longer once you stop worrying about what everyone else thinks, or does. Consider this advice my good deed for the day ;)
 
Let’s say it how it is: Self regulating is completely about having bigger horns on the wall. If we use the logic that our families won’t starve without the meat or don’t need the meat to survive, then there would be no reason to shoot deer at all unless your a trophy hunter who only cares about the horns on the wall. When I stop caring about eating mule deer, I’ll stop shooting them. Sounds like you don’t need the meat Elkass, and are concerned about the herds. Why do you continue to hunt them and kill them if that’s the case?
 
lif said:
Let’s say it how it is: Self regulating is completely about having bigger horns on the wall. If we use the logic that our families won’t starve without the meat or don’t need the meat to survive, then there would be no reason to shoot deer at all unless your a trophy hunter who only cares about the horns on the wall. When I stop caring about eating mule deer, I’ll stop shooting them. Sounds like you don’t need the meat Elkass, and are concerned about the herds. Why do you continue to hunt them and kill them if that’s the case?
Click to expand...
I don't think elkass has killed a buck in over 20 years.
 
elkassassin said:
Do You Let Bull Calves Breed Your Cows?

Do You Let Bull Calves Breed Their Mothers?
Click to expand...
This is a very good point!!!

You cannot have a healthy deer herd without different age classes of bucks!!!

If you wanted to end up with even one three year old and one four year old buck after hunting season you would probably need a minimum of twenty bucks per hundred does.

You can’t manage weather and cannot do much about habitat fragmentation, so, unfortunately about the only thing you can manage is hunters.
 
Last edited:
Bess,
I think you got your answer.

The "trophy hunting" term is the hunting communities equivalent of calling someone you disagree with a racist.

If antlers don't matter to most hunters then why do so many more hunters apply for LE Deer and Elk tags than those applying for antlerless? How many that claim to hunt for meat would scream foul if the state said you can only apply for antlerless or antlered permits?

Over the years the "trophy hunters" seem to be the ones also screaming the loudest to not over harvest the antlerless populations.
 
Muley_73 said:
How many that claim to hunt for meat would scream foul if the state said you can only apply for antlerless or antlered permits?
Click to expand...

I’m about on board with this. One elk point system in this state. You can apply for any hunt you want: cows, spikes, any bull, or LE, but it’s all the same pool. Same with deer. Box Elder archery are Pauns rifle…it’s all the same pool.

I’d love to see who would put their money where their mouth is and wait 20+ years to hold a tag.

I’d be fine shooting a cow or a spike elk each year. I’ll leave the quest for 400 to others. I like hunting. Weird for a website like this, I know!
 
ridgetops said:
Every year when I tell someone that I passed on 20 or 30 bucks during the season but never pulled the trigger on any of them. The response is usually......" Oh, you're one of those trophy hunters" . Now I can tell them......"absolutely not but I am a self regulator" 🤪
Click to expand...

I think you have surpassed being a "self regulator " if you pass 20 to 30 bucks during a general season hunt. You could possibly be in an even higher class of hunters. I think they call the "master regulators", but I could be wrong.
 
Who's going to make the bumper stickers ? I'm a Self Regulated hunter . " SR Hunter " Maybe being a Lifetimer and getting a tag every year helps. The last tags I have used was mentoring my daughter when she couldn't draw a tag on her first time putting in for the draw. Maybe it's being older like Bessy? I have killed enough piss cutters in my life. Reading the post on Thousand lakes made me think about this last week. I watched a 165 class buck for 45 minutes on the last weekend of the hunt on the thousand lakes. A nice little four point buck. just couldn't drop my standards down lower. When I started the the hunt the standard was set 180 or better. Let the little guys grow. I don't think you're going to see Chesser printing any of those stickers. The YouTube crowd of today has to produce a kill or their Video won't get watched. Everyone say it out loud I am a self regulated hunter !
 
Vanilla said:
I’m about on board with this. One elk point system in this state. You can apply for any hunt you want: cows, spikes, any bull, or LE, but it’s all the same pool. Same with deer. Box Elder archery are Pauns rifle…it’s all the same pool.
Click to expand...
That might not be a bad idea.

Would everyone get a second, third, fourth, and fifth choice?

What about the LL holders?

Full refund plus an extra five points?

Elkster, you wanted a proposal from Vanilla, I think this is it
 
Betterluckythangood said:
That might not be a bad idea.

Would everyone get a second, third, fourth, and fifth choice?

What about the LL holders?

Full refund plus an extra five points?

Elkster, you wanted a proposal from Vanilla, I think this is it
Click to expand...

They can allocate on choices, but if you draw a tag you lose your points, no exceptions.

You can designate which class of tags a LL qualifies for. It certainly shouldn’t qualify for a Henry Mtns tag. But that is easily fixable and we can start a committee to make that happen.

And this isn’t my proposal. This will do NOTHING for the animals. My proposal I already gave and Bessy responded to last week before starting to demand my proposal for some weird reason again this week was a big game management proposal, not hunter regulation proposal.

Some people LOVE human regulation. I’d rather increase mule deer.
 
Vanilla said:
They can allocate on choices, but if you draw a tag you lose your points, no exceptions.

You can designate which class of tags a LL qualifies for. It certainly shouldn’t qualify for a Henry Mtns tag. But that is easily fixable and we can start a committee to make that happen.

And this isn’t my proposal. This will do NOTHING for the animals. My proposal I already gave and Bessy responded to last week before starting to demand my proposal for some weird reason again this week was a big game management proposal, not hunter regulation proposal.

Some people LOVE human regulation. I’d rather increase mule deer.It was a questions to all of those that are saying you can’t eat antlers
Click to expand...
It was a question to all those saying I love the meat and you can’t eat antlers, Those that’s use the term “trophy hunting” as a negative. Nothing more nothing less. Those typing that probably also all entered for LE this past month. In their minds they are hoping to draw a tag…they are hoping for less crowds, more animals and bigger antlers…if they can’t find bigger antlers they will talk about the amazinf memories and experience being the most important thing …but make no mistake when they sent in their choices and paid the money …they wanted one of those 3 things …which clashes with the opportunity anti trophy hunting virtue flag they all wave around the rest of the year.
 
Well I have a shot some decent deer with my bow. I really just want to get a big one so I’m not too crazy about just shooting a decent buck. And I don’t shoot long range, really I think it’s made a lot of sh!ty hunters look like they are good hunters. I’m all for open sight muzzy’s. So yeah I like to self regulate.
 

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