Winter Conditions
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elks96
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Where to start! I have been all over the NW units this fall and winter! So I will start the worse of the worse! I have not been in 3 or 301, but have spent a lot of time in 2, 201, 11, 211, 21 and 22.
Unit 10 is absolutely horrible for deer numbers. Those that are around look healthy but the numbers are so low low in the unit it is unreal. I actually feel like numbers in 10 have been dropping more each year. Elk numbers are stable but seems to be fewer big bulls and more little bulls.
Unit 21 is also way down from what it once was and seems to be getting worse. Early winter the temps were really warm and deer were concentrated around the Douglas highway. Usually there is a cold inversion that forces the deer off the creek but this year that inversion was really late to show, like the last week of December. As a result the deer got slaughtered by vehicles between Rangely and the pass. i mentioned this to the units game warden he said that for a couple weeks he was finding an average of 6 to 12 hit. Not sure if it was a week or a night but I do know that when rabbit hunting after Thanksgiving there were a ton of deer dead in the ditches, more than I ever recall seeing between meeker and Craig. Deer in the unit seem to be more concentrated in pockets than usual and there were large areas where there are typically deer that had no tracks or anything. The winter range in the unit look absolutely horrible! Small sage flats are now dead, lots of bare ground, etc! We need a lot of good moisture winters for the plants in this area to recover. I am certain that the same issue is effecting unit 10 as well! Sorry but I bet 21 is a good 10 years away from any sort of recovery! The deer simply will not go back until the range and food is there...
Unit 2 and 201 were similar to years past. Snow levels are actually slightly lower than usual out that way, deer are able to move freely and with exception of an occasional drift there are pretty large areas that are easy to move through. Numbers are still lower but if things hold, no big red flags! As mentioned we did have a couple days of really cold weather. Like highs in single digits and lows hitting -25 but those days were also sunny and the snow was only 8 inches or so deep. Luckily it was light an fluffy still and the deer were able to spend those cold days sunning on south facing slopes where most snow was melted off and the sun allowed them to stay warm! During that coldest snap I was in unit 11. The deer were way down still in numbers and scattered through out the unit I. Small groups of 3 to10 at a time. They seemed healthy and able to find lots of feed. They also seemed to move easy and really could go anywhere with out much effort! 211 was similar, however it was really wierd/disheartening to spend an entire day in Axial Basin without seeing a single deer and only a 130 or so elk. Not sure of they have made it there, passed through, were up in the hills or what but seemed like a big hole void of animals.
So far the winter appears to be doing good for animals, just not enough deer in most units. It is probable good as a lot of the units I mentioned just to not have real healthy winter ranges yet. Probably the only exception is unit 22. Not that the deer numbers are great, but it seems to have winter ranges in better shape. Also the big thing that has helped 22 out has been a down turning drilling activity. This has resulted in a lot less road kill in the unit. Deer in the unit look healthy and there are some decent numbers in areas, but there are also areas that usually hold deer that currently do not have any. Talking wit the Biologist they have seen increased migration into 22 the last couple of years and a decrease in numbers into 21, 30, 31, and 32. This seems to be common occurrences, and over years the migration can go different ways, sometimes more to 21, sometimes more south to 31, etc. Of what ever reason slightly more deer are going 22 the last 2 years than before!
Good news is this winter has not been bad, but we are a long ways from a good deer situation!
Unit 10 is absolutely horrible for deer numbers. Those that are around look healthy but the numbers are so low low in the unit it is unreal. I actually feel like numbers in 10 have been dropping more each year. Elk numbers are stable but seems to be fewer big bulls and more little bulls.
Unit 21 is also way down from what it once was and seems to be getting worse. Early winter the temps were really warm and deer were concentrated around the Douglas highway. Usually there is a cold inversion that forces the deer off the creek but this year that inversion was really late to show, like the last week of December. As a result the deer got slaughtered by vehicles between Rangely and the pass. i mentioned this to the units game warden he said that for a couple weeks he was finding an average of 6 to 12 hit. Not sure if it was a week or a night but I do know that when rabbit hunting after Thanksgiving there were a ton of deer dead in the ditches, more than I ever recall seeing between meeker and Craig. Deer in the unit seem to be more concentrated in pockets than usual and there were large areas where there are typically deer that had no tracks or anything. The winter range in the unit look absolutely horrible! Small sage flats are now dead, lots of bare ground, etc! We need a lot of good moisture winters for the plants in this area to recover. I am certain that the same issue is effecting unit 10 as well! Sorry but I bet 21 is a good 10 years away from any sort of recovery! The deer simply will not go back until the range and food is there...
Unit 2 and 201 were similar to years past. Snow levels are actually slightly lower than usual out that way, deer are able to move freely and with exception of an occasional drift there are pretty large areas that are easy to move through. Numbers are still lower but if things hold, no big red flags! As mentioned we did have a couple days of really cold weather. Like highs in single digits and lows hitting -25 but those days were also sunny and the snow was only 8 inches or so deep. Luckily it was light an fluffy still and the deer were able to spend those cold days sunning on south facing slopes where most snow was melted off and the sun allowed them to stay warm! During that coldest snap I was in unit 11. The deer were way down still in numbers and scattered through out the unit I. Small groups of 3 to10 at a time. They seemed healthy and able to find lots of feed. They also seemed to move easy and really could go anywhere with out much effort! 211 was similar, however it was really wierd/disheartening to spend an entire day in Axial Basin without seeing a single deer and only a 130 or so elk. Not sure of they have made it there, passed through, were up in the hills or what but seemed like a big hole void of animals.
So far the winter appears to be doing good for animals, just not enough deer in most units. It is probable good as a lot of the units I mentioned just to not have real healthy winter ranges yet. Probably the only exception is unit 22. Not that the deer numbers are great, but it seems to have winter ranges in better shape. Also the big thing that has helped 22 out has been a down turning drilling activity. This has resulted in a lot less road kill in the unit. Deer in the unit look healthy and there are some decent numbers in areas, but there are also areas that usually hold deer that currently do not have any. Talking wit the Biologist they have seen increased migration into 22 the last couple of years and a decrease in numbers into 21, 30, 31, and 32. This seems to be common occurrences, and over years the migration can go different ways, sometimes more to 21, sometimes more south to 31, etc. Of what ever reason slightly more deer are going 22 the last 2 years than before!
Good news is this winter has not been bad, but we are a long ways from a good deer situation!
elks96
Long Time Member
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>96, appreciate the thorough analysis! Do
>you think the deer pendulum
>of history could be swinging
>back toward 22?
Not sure. I would not say the pendulum is swinging at all really! Just that right now for what ever reason 22 has more deer in it than there has been since 07/08 winter. I would say that the numbers are up, and would not say we have even started to recover, but there seems to be a correlation the last 2 years , fewer deer in neighboring unit a slightly higher numbers in 22. 22 has always been a good unit, but between all the energy exploration and the 07/08 winter etc. It is nothing like what it could be...
It is hard to say why the deer go where they do, I do believe that the winter range in 22 is better shape than than the other units. In particular the unit seems to have recovered well in the transition zones covered with the snowberry, mountain mahogany etc. It was really bad about 5 years ago, but with some decent winters some of the brush has came back nicely, at least compared to parts of 21 and 11.
Next year for some reason the deer could end up in 21 more or head south into 32 and 31 more, or North into 11 more. While thing general tend to stay the same, thing do change from year to year. For example there were a lot of deer and elk on the white river. This year there were hardly any. Not sure why?
I hope this continue to improve, but we have a long ways to go. I spoke with a Blm range manager about 21 and 22 earlier this fall. He said that the drought in the area had really changed the land scape over the last 15 years. He has been working in the units since 01 but when compared to historical data, he figure we need another 10 to 15 years of average moisture to get back to the range conditions we saw in the early 2000s.
Also I would note that I recently heard that shell was closing its leases in 22 and handing over the hunting right to a private group of investors! I hope and pray this is not true! It is a huge a chunk of great hunting lands several thousand acres at least and some great hunting! It has been under public lease to the state since I was a kid! I hope they do cave to big money and close that ground off. If so it will make 22 a hard unit to hunt as it will take away some of the best ground, while resulting in greater hunter densities in the remainder of the unit! I am still trying to track down that rumor! It was almost lost a couple years ago!
>you think the deer pendulum
>of history could be swinging
>back toward 22?
Not sure. I would not say the pendulum is swinging at all really! Just that right now for what ever reason 22 has more deer in it than there has been since 07/08 winter. I would say that the numbers are up, and would not say we have even started to recover, but there seems to be a correlation the last 2 years , fewer deer in neighboring unit a slightly higher numbers in 22. 22 has always been a good unit, but between all the energy exploration and the 07/08 winter etc. It is nothing like what it could be...
It is hard to say why the deer go where they do, I do believe that the winter range in 22 is better shape than than the other units. In particular the unit seems to have recovered well in the transition zones covered with the snowberry, mountain mahogany etc. It was really bad about 5 years ago, but with some decent winters some of the brush has came back nicely, at least compared to parts of 21 and 11.
Next year for some reason the deer could end up in 21 more or head south into 32 and 31 more, or North into 11 more. While thing general tend to stay the same, thing do change from year to year. For example there were a lot of deer and elk on the white river. This year there were hardly any. Not sure why?
I hope this continue to improve, but we have a long ways to go. I spoke with a Blm range manager about 21 and 22 earlier this fall. He said that the drought in the area had really changed the land scape over the last 15 years. He has been working in the units since 01 but when compared to historical data, he figure we need another 10 to 15 years of average moisture to get back to the range conditions we saw in the early 2000s.
Also I would note that I recently heard that shell was closing its leases in 22 and handing over the hunting right to a private group of investors! I hope and pray this is not true! It is a huge a chunk of great hunting lands several thousand acres at least and some great hunting! It has been under public lease to the state since I was a kid! I hope they do cave to big money and close that ground off. If so it will make 22 a hard unit to hunt as it will take away some of the best ground, while resulting in greater hunter densities in the remainder of the unit! I am still trying to track down that rumor! It was almost lost a couple years ago!
Kayak_to_hunt
Active Member
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- 308
If oil stays below $50 a barrel for long it is fair to say the oil shale boom will turn into the latest mining bust. It is already happening and unless oil returns to around $100 a barrel we will see the rigs move on.
That alone will do more to help the above units more than anything..
That alone will do more to help the above units more than anything..
elks96
Long Time Member
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- 3,811
I am tore on the oil gas and the increased slow down of activity in the area. It is good in the fact that there is less disturbance, and fewer vehicles, and a slowing down of turning habitat into roads, pads, and pipelines... On the other side there is also going to be a decrease in effort by the energy companies to mitigate existing issues. In many cases I can see benefits to activity. For example large tracks of new growth areas along the pipelines, assuming proper weed control. On the flip side, lower activity can also mean lower policing of activities! For example, in the boom time, there were a lot of people watching everything really closely. Certain roads are closed to energy companies and the guys followed the rules. With recent down in activity, the guys are taking those roads assuming no one else will know!
I do believe that a decrease in activity is a good thing, but it will be important for land owners and recreational users of the area to keep monitoring activities! My specific concerns are around weed control and mitigation and travel plans!
I do believe that a decrease in activity is a good thing, but it will be important for land owners and recreational users of the area to keep monitoring activities! My specific concerns are around weed control and mitigation and travel plans!
Kayak_to_hunt
Active Member
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Interesting shale oil or oil shale. You learn something every day!
My comments were made just after reading a Goldman's Futures report that was rather scathing on what will be the future of both oil shale and shale oil..
Also I had a uncle that had a good portion of some of that shale oil land leased where he ran is outfitter business on in the 70's - early 90's.. During that time it was flat amazing quality of animals. Since the rigs moved the rigs/rig workers have had a big effect on both the deer and elk. IMO I have not seen much the oil did that was positive other than help buoying some of local economy but IMO they have had a big effect on the quality - again big effect on quality of deer in that general area.
I have personally heard more than one rig worker brag how "their" season opens "before all the hunters get here or after the hunters leave". Not sure why but it seems to be in that rig worker culture.. Both poaching and habitat loss are big effects of these workers/rigs/exploration/fracking/oil shale/shale oil or whatever you want to call it.
My comments were made just after reading a Goldman's Futures report that was rather scathing on what will be the future of both oil shale and shale oil..
Also I had a uncle that had a good portion of some of that shale oil land leased where he ran is outfitter business on in the 70's - early 90's.. During that time it was flat amazing quality of animals. Since the rigs moved the rigs/rig workers have had a big effect on both the deer and elk. IMO I have not seen much the oil did that was positive other than help buoying some of local economy but IMO they have had a big effect on the quality - again big effect on quality of deer in that general area.
I have personally heard more than one rig worker brag how "their" season opens "before all the hunters get here or after the hunters leave". Not sure why but it seems to be in that rig worker culture.. Both poaching and habitat loss are big effects of these workers/rigs/exploration/fracking/oil shale/shale oil or whatever you want to call it.
I can't speak personally about the area you are referring too but I have worked in the oil field and feel differently about this. I worked north of baggs Wyoming for a few years in a gas field that has been around a long time. This area is well known for producing big bulls and big bucks even with the activity.
I do think drilling activity can have damaging effects on wildlife but not to the extent of which you are speaking. The main problem with these fields I believe is the number of roads drilling activity provides. This provides easy access to winter ranges for poachers to easily shoot from a road and take off.
I do think drilling activity can have damaging effects on wildlife but not to the extent of which you are speaking. The main problem with these fields I believe is the number of roads drilling activity provides. This provides easy access to winter ranges for poachers to easily shoot from a road and take off.
Kayak_to_hunt
Active Member
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I am not trying to say the only reason is poaching from gas rig guys as I have many friends who work in the industry as well and most are good guys.
What I am saying is
There are more roads due to this drilling..
There are more workers all over that country on these roads.
More hunters are using these roads to kill deer.
The loss of habitat is real..
The ease of access has more hunters, non-hunters, hippies, workers, ect all accessing this land - it does a impact on the deer..
And yea who know who is doing it but there has been a increase in poaching..
One thing might not make a impact but the body of work the gas and oil industry is putting together does effected the deer IMO.
Or I guess I am wrong and maybe, just maybe - the only reason Popeye lived so long was due to the gas and oil industry LOL!
Sorry to hijack the thread so that is it from me - if I want to piss and moan about gas n oil development I will start my own thread.
What I am saying is
There are more roads due to this drilling..
There are more workers all over that country on these roads.
More hunters are using these roads to kill deer.
The loss of habitat is real..
The ease of access has more hunters, non-hunters, hippies, workers, ect all accessing this land - it does a impact on the deer..
And yea who know who is doing it but there has been a increase in poaching..
One thing might not make a impact but the body of work the gas and oil industry is putting together does effected the deer IMO.
Or I guess I am wrong and maybe, just maybe - the only reason Popeye lived so long was due to the gas and oil industry LOL!
Sorry to hijack the thread so that is it from me - if I want to piss and moan about gas n oil development I will start my own thread.
Check this out, from CPW RE impacts of energy development on wildlife in GMU 22:
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie...e/Draft_Piceance_SWA_Property_Exchange_EA.pdf
The whole thing is worth wading through, but pp.19-20 specifically address this topic.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie...e/Draft_Piceance_SWA_Property_Exchange_EA.pdf
The whole thing is worth wading through, but pp.19-20 specifically address this topic.
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,811
>Check this out, from CPW RE
>impacts of energy development on
>wildlife in GMU 22:
>
>http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie...e/Draft_Piceance_SWA_Property_Exchange_EA.pdf
>
>The whole thing is worth wading
>through, but pp.19-20 specifically address
>this topic.
Yeah that was a horrible trade and left myself and many other locals upset with the DOW! I am certain there were other factors not mentioned that influenced that trade! They trade beautiful creek fed alfalfa fields that had a developed camping sight and almost the last public land on the creek for a dry dessert set of canyons that provide no real recreational activities. The new properties are filled with weeds, have been overgrazed and are just down right crappy! It was a bad trade all around! I also disliked the portion of the paper where the DOW took the stance and attitude that oil and gas will continue to grow so we might as well trade it!
I did enjoy the section about the endangered plants! I have always seen those little things and have searched all over to identify it, but never found it! There is another plant in the basin that I have never found any where else in Colorado! Unfortunately it is common to Nevada and California, and not really anything special other than the fact it is a long way from other populations!
>impacts of energy development on
>wildlife in GMU 22:
>
>http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie...e/Draft_Piceance_SWA_Property_Exchange_EA.pdf
>
>The whole thing is worth wading
>through, but pp.19-20 specifically address
>this topic.
Yeah that was a horrible trade and left myself and many other locals upset with the DOW! I am certain there were other factors not mentioned that influenced that trade! They trade beautiful creek fed alfalfa fields that had a developed camping sight and almost the last public land on the creek for a dry dessert set of canyons that provide no real recreational activities. The new properties are filled with weeds, have been overgrazed and are just down right crappy! It was a bad trade all around! I also disliked the portion of the paper where the DOW took the stance and attitude that oil and gas will continue to grow so we might as well trade it!
I did enjoy the section about the endangered plants! I have always seen those little things and have searched all over to identify it, but never found it! There is another plant in the basin that I have never found any where else in Colorado! Unfortunately it is common to Nevada and California, and not really anything special other than the fact it is a long way from other populations!
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