Wouldn't you, if you could???

H

huntnhard32

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I have to admit to being a bit of an MM junky, I don't post much, usually only when I have pictures. I am the guy that has the cute 4 now 5 year old boy in some of my harvest pictures. I see all the talk from guys who seem to be against guides or private land hunts. As a guy who came from a small-town, and could never afford to go on a guided hunt, too someone who later found a great business partner, and lucked into a great business, that has been farely succesful, I have seen two different perspectives. I am interested why it seems that some guys only think it is "real" hunting DYI or public land. I grew up hunting coyotes or rabbits in the canyon and cedars that I grew up around. When I was 12 I got a .22 rifle, there was a ring of death spanning about two miles around my home. I would buy the bucket of .22 bullets at walmart and shoot it until the barrell practically melted. My best friend, and later business partner, and I dreamed of hunting Monster Muleys, we had absolutely no money so we would get over the counter archery tags, we got so we would could kill 2 or 3 year old bucks, and LOVED it. It is really hard to draw in AZ and hunting was limited. After our business got up and going being able to pay tresspass fees, and going on private ranches became a real possibility!! We were like two red-necks who won the lottery, we were going on hunts almost constantly!! Some were great others not so much...some just a joke and waste of money. We would occasionally get drawn during that time for public land hunts as well. From doing both, I would say that there are some quality, hard to draw, public land hunts, where you have no guides, just good mgmt of the resource that are for lack of a better word, "easy" by easy I mean being able to harvest a decent animal, and I have gone on guided "cherry" hunts that have not been easy, due to weather, animal movements, and or poor planning from the outfitter or yourself. I have also learned that when you get to a point in your hunting career that you want to start focusing on above average animals, they are hard to take with a bow no matter wether you find them on private or public land. Once a big mature bull or buck gets to a certain age they become so much harder and funner, in my mind, to hunt. And these animals test your patience your skills, your conditioning, your planning, your drive, your sanity!! My point is some of these great hunters, who mostly hunt public, and then get on a forum like this and say how awful it was to fight a sea of pumpkin utards on the mountain of the opener, then go on to say it is only hunting when you DYI, on public ground. I think that most if not ALL of those same guys if they had the resources/finances, would in a heart-beat go to those places where they have practiced good mgmt, and you have a chance to kill some exceptional animals. Hunt them your way, but hunt world class animals....Wouldn't you, if you could? If so, let's start talking about what floats your boat, not here is the only way to hunt!! The bull that I killed on public land all by myself didn't feel like more of an achievement, I had help from friends where they had seen bulls, worked hard and got lucky, abou the same things that happens when I am succesful on private land hunts!! I want to know if I am smoking crack, or if I am kidding myself. Or if there are good hunters, who go where ever they have opportunitys wheter they be on private or public land, with or without guide, just quality hunts they can afford or are lucky enough to draw!! I really want your feed-back. Let's hear it!
 
Would I? On the expensive-private-land tags.....not a chance...at least not until I become MUCH older and much less physically able. (I'll be 59 next month.)

I have a couple of friends who guide. They refer to all of the elk/deer "they" kill; not what their clients killed. I know the clients pull the triggers but the guides do the thinking, hunting, spotting and calling. They even gut and skin the animal. I enjoy the whole experience.

If I could afford (I can now afford but could not until VERY recently) to hire a guide who would use his horses to take me so deep into a wilderness area that my llamas and I cannot go there, and if it seemed as if I was hunting with a PARTNER, I'd consider that....some areas almost require horses for access.

For those places, I need the guide's horses/equipment and his specific knowledge of local terrain. Beyond that, I can do it as well as he can; I've probably got more experience. I would be horribly disappointed (insulted) if he offered advice on which one to shoot, how far to shoot, which shot to take and if he thought he was supposed to dress my animal. I'd appreciate a 2nd set of eyes while glassing and help packing the animal out but I want to know that I DID IT.

The satisfaction comes from the successful quest....not from hanging something on the wall that I could not have done without special privileges and (even then) without someone else's help.

There are no internal "bragging rights" to shooting a "trophy" animal that was on property where there is no hunting competition. It takes MUCH less stealth, skill and work when no one else is allowed to alert or chase them. A 185 on the limited-entry-private-lands is equivalent to a 3x3 on a general hunt. Under those circumstances, a 210 animal would be less difficult to take than a mature buck on public land with a general tag.

I'm fortunate. I live in Idaho. I can hunt mature animals every year with OTC tags.....all I have to do is hike into the country and hunt them, which is much more satisfying that shooting a "big one" down in the foothills when all it took was enough money to buy access. Honestly, given a week on private ground, how could one NOT get a deer?

With that type of "guarantee" is there much difference between that and shooting a beef?

So....my general answer is "no".



Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
I both agree and disagree with gb22.
I agree that guided hunts just don't compare with DIY as far as personal satisfaction goes.
It is completley possible to pretty much "buy" your trophies to a degree.
I've done a number of guided hunts, I did my research and had great experiences.
However my DIY hunts mean much more to me.
A friend of mine hunts with guides ALL the time, he pays the big bucks and kills big animals.
They really don't mean that much to me any more.
Many times I think I'd rather strike out on my own than be successful with a guide holding my hand.

The private land thing is completley different IMO.
I hear guys complain about private land animals being so much less of a trophy than heavily hunted public and berate guys who hunt there..
Much more difficult?
YES, I agree completley.
But using that logic, I guess they should not ever put in for premium tags then.
They should find the most warped out heavily hunted underpopulated piece of ground available....Right?

Private ground is a treat to hunt.
I feel it is a reward for dilligent research and homework.
I'm lucky to have it.
My family has known local ranchers for decades as friends and neighbors.
Should I not hunt their property because it is easier than the desolate parched earth that the masses pound annually?
LOL.
I hunt near home on some big pieces of private and do attributre a large degree of my success to that.
I also hunt public and truly enjoy those areas as well and my better bucks actually have come from the public ground.

The long range rifle guys aint as good as the muzzleloader guys.
The muzzleloader guys aint as good as the bow guys.
The compound guys aint as good as the long bow guys.
Hell, I guess you aint the best till you are throwing a rock at a forked horn behind Walmart.
LOL.
In the end it is personal preference.
To each his own.
HH
 
gb22
Thank you so much for responding, and putting time into your answer. I think you missed my point...or more likely I didn't explain myself very well. in this paragraph "I have a couple of friends who guide. They refer to all of the elk/deer "they" kill; not what their clients killed. I know the clients pull the triggers but the guides do the thinking, hunting, spotting and calling. They even gut and skin the animal. I enjoy the whole experience." What you have described would not be fun for me either, it is my hunt, I wouldn't want them doing my hunting, with a bow I have NEVER had a succesful stalk with someone in tow, wether it be a guide or a friend to much noise. You then go on to say "If I could afford (I can now afford but could not until VERY recently) to hire a guide who would use his horses to take me so deep into a wilderness area that my llamas and I cannot go there, and if it seemed as if I was hunting with a PARTNER, I'd consider that....some areas almost require horses for access." I agree, any hunt that wasn't tailored to your expectations on how the guide hunter relationship would be, is partly your fault. You have to do a lot of research and communicate your desires on YOUR hunt. Sometimes it is not a good match or your philosophies on hunting are to far off for it to work. I submit that all of the hunts that I have loved I felt more like I was hunting with a PARTNER, but I had to work on my end to let them know my expectations, and abilities.

I am glad you put this comment, because it is exactly what I was trying to get at "There are no internal "bragging rights" to shooting a "trophy" animal that was on property where there is no hunting competition. It takes MUCH less stealth, skill and work when no one else is allowed to alert or chase them. A 185 on the limited-entry-private-lands is equivalent to a 3x3 on a general hunt. Under those circumstances, a 210 animal would be less difficult to take than a mature buck on public land with a general tag." Where does the research come from on this?? I have had public land hunts, where the weather, and other conditions were right, and I was in crap-loads of animals daily, and I have had hunts on private land, where the animals for whatever reason were scarce. I think the MUCH less stealth skill and work are not accurate, mind you I have done both. One of the private places I hunt the deer are migratory, when deer get a certain age say 4 or 5, they turn into a different animal, and your less stealth skill and work statement is wrong.

I guess my whole reason for the post was to get some dialogue going. I hear all these great hunters with strong opinions on guided hunts or privae land hunts, and after talking to them they have NEVER gone on one. They are just listening to their friend that is a guide, or a brothers cousin, or forums like this. Since they can't or don't get the opportunity to hunt that way they dismiss it as easy. Sounds like "sour grapes"

As someone who hunts whenever or whatever I can with OTC tags, draws, private land, I have a different I think more informed perspective.

Your last comment sums up what I am talking about perfectly "Honestly, given a week on private ground, how could one NOT get a deer? With that type of "guarantee" is there much difference between that and shooting a beef?" What kind of hunt are you describing in the above statement?? I guess you are looking at the guy who has NOT killed a deer, and a couple of times I had 10 days!! There are no guarantees...unless maybe your hunting high fence. Just shooting beef is exactly the attitude I am talking about!! I don't know if your weapon of choice is a gun, muzzy, or bow, or all depending on what the season is, but I prefer a bow, however I never go knocking rifle guys, becuase there are instances where they may hunt even harder, I just personally like the challenge of getting close it gives me that adrenaline. I would just like people to hear a more balanced view on this subject as I find it usually missing.
 
I would and have done so. I have been very poor and slept on the ground, cold and now I can do just about anything I want. I will hunt Nevada guided this year with a guy I have hunted with for years now. We have a great time. I will hunt South Dakota on a huge 60K acer ranch in the middle of November, ya in the rut! It is a blast. I own my own ranch for Blacktails here in California. And for all you do it yourselfers, I owned one nice ranch in Smoot Wy and one in SW Idaho for years. Hunted the upper Salt river (NF) for years (drawing was easy then). That was the easiest big buck hunting I ever had! I sold when everyone found out and ruined it. I have been and will continue to seek out the best hunting I can find. I grow tired of the folks who say they won't do it, fact is they just don't know any better.
 
>...............fact is they just don't know any better.

And that, is the simple truth of it......except for the "holier than thou" part.
 
I for one cant wait for the day that I go on a guided Moose, Bear, caribou hunt! I think it will be a blast and from what I understand... not too easy. Also, I would love to get a Henries tag one day and shoot a big one... but do not think it will be a real difficult hunt... not to say its easy... just not real difficult.
 
This is a good topic and I'm sure that there are as many oppinions as hunters on this subject. For me personally, I am affected on both sides of the fence. I have an interest in public land hunting as well as private land because I run an outfitting business. I am thankful that there are guys that want to hunt quality animals on private ground and hire a guide that does a lot of the work for them. If it were not for these guys I wouldn't be able to hunt elk like I do and spend the amount of time in the woods that I do. To me, this is the pinnacle of my hunting life. I have to admit, I have made that statement before; "I did everything but pull the trigger on that animal". However, I have met, and continue to associate with, some lifelong friends. Those relationships would not have been possible if it were not for people "using guides". That being said, I have had some of the most sattisfying hunts on public land with all of the "pumkins" on the mountain. Now that my kids are of hunting age, I value just getting out with them and hunting. Although my business is based on "size" I try to emphasize the quality of the hunt and that there are times when numbers should be thrown out the window. I am a big proponent of hunting private land. I choose to do so with my kids because I believe it provides them an opportunity to glass game, make the stalk, and harvest an animal that isn't running mach 10 through the trees. I do understand those that want to challenge themselves on public land and I do the same at times. There is a certain satisfaction that comes with harvesting an animal on public ground fighting the crowds. I also think that this type of hunting at times takes away a certain amount of skill from a hunter and the harvesting of game becomes a event of chance or luck. I consider myself fortunate to be able to hunt all aspects of terrain, both private and public property and limited entry premium permits. I don't throw stones at anyones choice of hunts. Just be damn glad you're out doing something in the outdoors and not sitting behind a desk.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
I too know and hear a lot of people talking trash about guides and people that use guides. Everyone has the right to their opinion. The problems is that some people go to far with their opinions.
I would love to do all of my hunting as DIY. IMO that is not realistic. I hunt sometimes by myself and most of the time with friends and family. Most hunters will be helped by friends or family before and during a hunt. Scouting, asking for info, glassing, calling, skinning, putting up cameras, salt licks, and just an extra set of eyes. This is for the most part free. When you use a guide or hunt on private land it cost money. I do not see much of a difference in the hunting part other then money. I have gone on semi guide hunts and hunted on private land. Each one of those hunts was just as hard and fun as hunting on public land unguided. When you hire a guide you are getting info, help, and every thing you get from your hunting partner for a price. When you buy a landowner tag you are getting in opportunity hunt.
To those hard core hunters that hunt solo and never ask for help or info, you are crazy but i respect that.
If you love to hunt it should not matter who it is with or on what piece of land you are on.

I am glad that for the most part MM members still share info and help fellow hunters.
 
I'll bet a lot of money that a whole lot of us started out hunting as dirt poor kids and did it cause we loved doing it. Some have been able to do the "moving on up" part and enlist guided help in new areas with better game, others may have not been that lucky or perhaps worked hard enough or sacrificed enough to be able to do so. Be that as it may, we all hunt cause we really enjoy the game. I've been fortunate enough to have it both ways, DIY sleeping under the truck in a downpour chasing a so-so herd and then sleeping in a cabin on a guided hunt chasing monsters. The key point that has made all of my hunts the great memories they are has been the fact that regardless of the circumstances for the hunt, I put a lot of time and effort into doing what I knew it was going to take to make the hunt the best hunt it could be....i.e. I researched the area and animals, prepared myself phsically and mentally, and then went out and gave a 110% effort to get the job done. Won some and lost some ... que sera, sera. And the other key part of the whole deal has been that I got to share the experience with great people that I oftentimes have known and loved for my entire life, or else with new acquaintenances that loved the game as much as I did and I ended up gaining new great friends out of the deal.
Either way, I don't think one has necessarily been a better way to play the game .... I got a ton out of all of them, just had different results and overall experiences. And yes, I've gotten some big animals both ways and been skunked both ways. That's hunting and I hope to get to do it both ways a lot more before I check out of here.
Cheers!!!!
 
That was a really great answer, and I don't think it could be said much better. Low country elk I think you have this whole hunting thing figured out. At the end of the day it is that undescribable feeling, that is so intense it is almost innate. I have several buddies that are different than me, in almost everything, however, I recognize in them, what I know about myself, they love hunting so passionately that we can't talk about it for too long or my day becomes very un-productive, and I am useless for several hours. I still can't sleep the night before a hunt, and that is after going on hundreds of hunts. I can get shook up hunting wild hogs, especialy if it is with a bow!! That bond between sportsmen... that love of the hunt... is what gives me hope for my children and my future grandchildren to be able to have opportunities to hunt. I think having opinions is a good thing, I just think they should be not only well thought out, but with some context, and or experience. And when push comes to shove celebrate others legal ways of enjoying hunting, or at least being informed and having first hand experience before you knock it.

Thomas V. Caldwell renowned author and public speaker...as well as other cool stuff I tell my kids.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-09-09 AT 02:50AM (MST)[p]The reason I hunt is for that adrenaline rush that goes thru my body from the moment I see or hear my arrow penetrate until the moment I get to wrap my hands around a rack!! Nothing in life is as nerve racking to me then the time between hitting and finding my animal. Hunting for me begins the second I start glassing and ends when something is dead. Trophy's are in the eye of the beholder obviously. This year is the first year I passed up on bucks that I never would have in the past and honestly it felt good to be able to do so without regret after eating tag soup later. Private land, public land, makes no difference to me and I'll be the last to judge another person for choosing one over the other. Animals on public ground can't smell or hear any better than those on private ground and I'm pretty sure the wind swirls everywhere too. IMO glassing, stalking, ambushing, making the shot count, patience, persistence...those and many many more, are all skills that it takes to kill wild big game animals on ANY property. Would I use a guide if I drew an out of state or once in a lifetime tag in a unit I had very little or no knowledge of if I had the financial means to do so?? HELL YES I WOULD, I'll always give myself every advantage I can to obtain my goals whether it be hunting or something else in life. Anyone who wants to judge me or anyone else for using a guide or hunting private property can honestly kiss my ass...I really don't care what they think :) hunting is hunting and big game is big game no matter where it's going on...

~Z~
 
There is a very insidious trend picked up by the politicians discourse...it is trying to create envy from those that are percieved to "have" vs. those who dont...

It is sad that a lot of people unknowingly fall into this tactic on a daily basis...

Simple fact is, there are those that abuse the boundaries on all sides...and the other fact is, we all hunt for different reasons, and generally think that the way we do it, it the best and or "most ethical" we try to make it a moral thing not an opportunity thing...

We have gotten to a point where we like to think what and how we do it is better than another...Sadly, that is rarely true...

Think of the extremes...Denny Austad vs. Joe the plumber who saves for years...which one is more ethical? neither...

both have made choices, throughout their life, and each has benefited and had its limitations...Yet we are making a moral argument about each...

Each of the two above, had the opportunity to strike out on their own, and build a business or work for someone, or do an apprecticeship...each has its set of implications and each has its ups and downs...

As someone who chose to drop out of college, and start my own business at 20, I have over the years had numerous people treat what I did as I "got lucky" or I "had it good" What they dont see is the
100+ hour weeks,
the struggle to make payroll,
the raising money from investors,
etc. etc. etc.

This falling into the trap of class envy will lead us no where but bitterness...

It is the same debate, guides good or bad...

Neither, they cater to a group of people...


All this being said...have never once hired a guide, but also hold no ill will of those that do...I made a choice to live where I do, so I dont have to hire a guide...and that choice has limited my income, but it has also allowed me to raise my kids where I want, and live the lifestyle I choose...

It is all choices...dont make them moral or immoral...IMHO....
 
Well said!! This is AMERICA, there should only be the have... and the don't have YET!! I have seen plenty of people who have made THEIR dreams come true. Wether that be spend more time with their family grow a multi-million dollar business. I think the biggest threat we face is becoming a victim. Being a victim of circumstance or our lot in life. I have just watched to many people make thier own lot or luck. I love how young children think they can be or become anything they want...cause they are RIGHT!!

Thomas V. Caldwell renowned author and public speaker...as well as other cool stuff I tell my kids.
 
cougar hunt i would want a guide otherwise no thanks i'll go it alone

[a href="http://www.mybinocularharness.com/"]binocular harness system[/a]
 
>I would and have done so.
>I have been very poor
>and slept on the ground,
>cold and now I can
>do just about anything I
>want. I will hunt Nevada
>guided this year with a
>guy I have hunted with
>for years now. We have
>a great time. I will
>hunt South Dakota on a
>huge 60K acer ranch in
>the middle of November, ya
>in the rut! It is
>a blast. I own my
>own ranch for Blacktails here
>in California. And for all
>you do it yourselfers, I
>owned one nice ranch in
>Smoot Wy and one in
>SW Idaho for years. Hunted
>the upper Salt river (NF)
>for years (drawing was easy
>then). That was the easiest
>big buck hunting I ever
>had! I sold when everyone
>found out and ruined it.
>I have been and will
>continue to seek out the
>best hunting I can find.
>I grow tired of the
>folks who say they won't
>do it, fact is they
>just don't know any better.
>


I do know better. I'll put my hunting abilities and overall record (on mule deer) up against most anyone. I stand by my answer to the question, "would you". No. I never have and won't until I physically need the help. I'll come back with just as much fun (AND trophies) as those with guides or on private property.

BTW...my young son and I walked with 40 yards of a sleeping mtn. lion yesterday evening. Really cool! Couldn't get close enough to a VERY large buck. No guide and public property. I know where his home is...I'll bring him home this season.





Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Remeber, this question (and my answer) was about whether or not I would do it.

I live here. I hunt (almost) when I want. Hunted Thursday & Friday, watched the Friday night HS game and hunted Saturday. I'll be in church today, camp on the hill tonight and hunt in the morning. On other trips, I will (w/llamas) pack farther into a wilderness area.

No, I don't really need/want the help of a guide.....unless it's for an extreme adventure (which doesn't seem to exist in Idaho, Oregon, NV or WY. I can hunt those places on my own.

WERE I to try whitetails in Nebraska, where I have no connections for access or knowledge of the hunting terrain....who knows? Mule deer, elk, bear and our western vistas hold MUCH more appeal.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
I've hunted my own land, on friends land, paid trespass fees, gone on guided trips, and state land in 5 different states to date. Some were successfull and some not so much. Make no mistake I loved each and every one for various reasons. Probably because i love to hunt and i love the outdoors. As long as it's fair chase I'm in!
 
I believe the "Guide vs. No Guide" debate is fraught with dnager. Why? Because it depends on the circumstances.

I live and hunt for whitetails on my farm in east TX.I know every nook and cranny on my place.Obviously,I don't need a guide and all my deer are "DIY". But am I "holier than thou" about it? No-because even though I did it myself my knowledge is a huge advantage to me since I own the place. My buddies who hunt with me are technically "DIY" too.But I function as a "guide" somewhat since I share my knowledge.

Are the Eastman boys really true "DIY" hunters since hunting in Wyoming is ALL they do for a living? Etc.,etc.,etc.

It's all semantics.

I drew a Wyoming Area 1 moose tag in 2005.Did I hire a guide? OF COURSE I did. I am not familiar with the area,the game, and I didn't have the time to get familiar in 4 months. I would have been foolish to have NOT hired a guide. The result? The hunt of a lifetime and a trophy moose.

Now having someone spot the game,monitor a bull, call you in from afar,point him out,set up your shooting sticks, and tell you when to shoot? Not my cup of tea.

Every situation is different and you can't generalize about it IMO.
 
For me its looking at that deer or elk on the wall and remembering the hours glassing, hiking, camping,nights with no sleep from July-September. So if having guide takes away from any of that then no.
 
I have done both and know plenty of wealthy guys who have earned the right to drop big bucks on a guide to wipe their butt, tell them what a great hunter they are and get the big trophy. When You take these guys on a tuff hunt, they wilt. Tred Barta, bless his heart, always said he hunter the hard way, tred's way. Well, long bow but the best guides which meant the best land and knowledge. is that really the hard way? For the most part trophy hunting is like racing. more $$$$$$$$$$ = better results.
 
In answer to the original question-

"I am interested why it seems that some guys only think it is "real" hunting DYI or public land."

A trophy quality DIY public land (non-Limited Entry)Muley buck is the ultimate hunting trophy in the state of Utah. Are they rare? Yes. But it is the ultimate big game trophy in the State of Utah, period.

I think most people who feel this way, myself included, do so because DIY public land is available to everyone- period. When the money gets involved, you are essentially buying better odds. I am not saying that other hunts are wrong. I have and continue to hunt private ground, but by doing so I recognize that I am at an advantage over public land hunters. My son shot a 160 class muley on private ground last year. It was a great hunt. I wouldn't trade it for the world. But there is absolutely not question in my mind that he would not have had the success he had,as easily as he did, if he would have been on public land.

I do not have any animosity toward people who hunt private lands or use guides, but they are fooling themselves if they believe a trophy taken under a situation where they have purchased better odds holds the same respect that a DIY Public Land Hunt does.

My personal opinion is that even Limited Entry Units don't deserve the same respect as an open unit trophy. A few years back a guy killed a 400 bull on an open unit near Logan, UT. I read the story of that hunt. He has my respect.

I don't have a problem with people using guides or using money to increase their odds of taking a trophy animal, but when they try to insinuate that somehow an animal taken with these favorable odds is worthy of the same respect that a DIY Public Land trophy is, that's plain bologne.

Go ahead and spend the money and get the results you paid for, and if you enjoy it, I am honestly happy for you. But don't go around expecting everyone to ooooh and ahhhh about your accomplishments they way we would if you just plain did it yourself with the same odds as anyone else has. You bought your trophy, and if your happy with that, good for you. Just don't expect every else to acknowledge you as "the world's greatest hunter."
 
Good post and I think you make a sound argument. However, I had a couple of comments.

First off I don't hunt to have others ooh and aah. I will NEVER forget the first buck I took with my bow...a sweet spike. I seriously was more proud and excited and pumped than any other time I have hunted...I hunt mainly for that feeling, among many other reasons.

Second, I think we have all heard of the instances were a brand new hunter goes out for one of their first time hunting and kills a HUGE animal. How do you account for that? Is it rare? Yes but it does happen.

I am glad you posted because this is the attitude I was thinking of when I first started this post. Who are you or any hunter to tell me or any hunter what is "worthy of the same respect"? I think it is okay to have an opinion, but I think it is a little judgemental when one says..this type of hunting on this type of area is more worthy of respect than this type and this area. As long as it is legal and ethical, I think they are all worthy of respect, and I think we would be shocked about what our attitudes of what was easy and hard would be if we were able to try the endless methods and circumstances that come about in hunting.

If having an advantage is the main point of your argument, than the truly ultimate hunt is DYI lion spot and stalk with a spear in a public land area where there are only 2 lions in the entire unit.

I just don't think you can tell me what is harder or easier or more or less worthy, you can give your opinion, but it seems all to often, some hunters state these opinions as facts.

One more thing, the only truly easy hunting that I think all hunters can agree on is spot and stalk for mature whitetails, with a bow in the east.

Thomas V. Caldwell renowned author and public speaker...as well as other cool stuff I tell my kids.
 
I'd like to throw in a response on this one.

For me I feel like I'm a guy that would take a hunt no matter where, no matter what. I just love to hunt and it doesn't matter if it's a DIY on public, or a private tresspass, or a guided hunt. I've done them all and will continue to hunt on every opportunity I can.

I'm not a rich guy as far as money is concerned, but I've worked hard, saved and bought many, many good quality tags over the last 15 years so I could enjoy good hunting. I've also played the bonus points game in most of the western states. I've solo backpack hunted Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, and Nevada. Some of these were in the high timberline country of the greys river, or in the maroon bells in Co.

To me, after killing lots of good sized deer, it seems to be that each one is unique, and each has a different level of difficulty and satisfaction associated with it. My toughest hunt was the closest to home on a limited entry. Killed a huge buck with my bow after 20 days of hunting, only 10 miles from the house. Killed a 32" buck in Nevada a few years ago 10 feet off the trail in a wilderness area that stood up out of it's bed and I smoked it after a short hike into the wilderness. Too easy to qualify as an "earned" buck, but hey, I'll take them any way I can get them as long as it's legal.

I have been on a few guided hunts now too, and to tell you the truth, they are cool. I am a guide too, and take hunters every year. I love to learn how others operate and what tactics they use. Seems like good coaches go to coaching seminars and learn all they can. Good hunters learn from the best any time they can. Point is, I love to hunt and will do it whenever I can as long as I can.


The answer to your question for me is "yes" if I had the money, which I don't, I would buy hunts, tags, tresspasses, bonus points, horses, governor's tags, and every other tag I could afford. It's probably a good thing I don't have lots of money because I'd be a worthless menace to society since I would be hunting all year long instead of making a living and taking care of my family.

Good hunting to all, wherever you hunt and however you hunt.

DeerBeDead
 

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