I'm searching for another Wyo nonres that is tired of waiting to hunt tough to draw units and is willing to apply with me as a party that has quite a few elk and/or antelope pref pts. I grew up in Wyo and know the country/units very well. In return for applying with me I would be willing to scout and join you on your hunt. I did something similar this year for elk and antelope and it worked out well. Send me a PM if interested.
Wyo nonres elk or antelope
- Thread starter jims
- Start date
Cornhusker
Long Time Member
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I'll write that down as another great Buzzdom that I will remember forever.
On the positive side I guarantee Jim will hunt as harder or harder than anybody you have ever hunted with. Bring your own stove unless you can go days on peanut butter and cold ravioli.
On the positive side I guarantee Jim will hunt as harder or harder than anybody you have ever hunted with. Bring your own stove unless you can go days on peanut butter and cold ravioli.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 04:14PM (MST)[p]I've only drawn 2 tags over the years using point averaging. I really don't totally mind if it disappears...but it would make it tougher on nonresident hunters that like to apply, travel long distance, and hunt together to draw tags together.
I can see advantages and disadvantages to both sides. In Colo they go with the applicant with the least amount of pref pts. Unfortunately a system like that would mean that nonresident friends and family that enjoy hunting at the same time together will likely have to wait longer to draw high demand tags....if they don't have the same number of pref pts.
I can see advantages and disadvantages to both sides. In Colo they go with the applicant with the least amount of pref pts. Unfortunately a system like that would mean that nonresident friends and family that enjoy hunting at the same time together will likely have to wait longer to draw high demand tags....if they don't have the same number of pref pts.
BuzzH
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jims,
So could you list all the things you've done in Colorado to change the low point system to point averaging, so families can hunt together?
Thanks in advance.
Ever wonder why Colorado has the current regulations on party apps going in with the low point holder totals?
So could you list all the things you've done in Colorado to change the low point system to point averaging, so families can hunt together?
Thanks in advance.
Ever wonder why Colorado has the current regulations on party apps going in with the low point holder totals?
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 04:44PM (MST)[p]I have no problem with the way Wyoming has their point averaging system set up as long as someone who would take up an offer like jims is asking knows what they're getting into if it's a total stranger. I did it once with a guy for antelope and was able to hunt the unit I like one year earlier than I could have with just my PP total. I also tried to party with a guy who had max PPs for deer and was disabled and looking for a hunt he could do. We applied as a party and he was going to fly out and I would have used my vehicle and trailer for the hunt in a good unit that he could have hunted with his disability. However, PP creep caught us and we just missed drawing the tags. I really don't see why a resident would have any problem with it since it doesn't involve them and their draws. The only negative I can see is a party application, if drawn, could take away a NR tag that might go to an individual with more PPs than another person like jims who would benefit by drawing the tag when he has less PPs. I have no idea if that happens much, but I doubt it because I think most party applications are friends and/or relatives that have a pretty similar PP total and just want to make sure either all or none get a tag in any given application period.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 04:50PM (MST)[p]Buzz, I actually like Colo's system better than Wyo's averaging....but I've mostly hunted Colo alone. If I hunted with family and friends I would likely be lobbying for pt averaging.
I only started using pt averaging in Wyo last year. Once I tried it I saw that it was such a win-win deal for both me and the other nonres hunters that I applied and hunted with. If Wyo eliminated pt averaging it would help those that hunt alone draw tags more frequently and require a longer wait before family members and friends that prefer to hunt together draw tags. It would't hurt my feelings at all if pt averaging was eliminated but it would come at a price. I'm thankful that Wyo has offered this opportunity for nonres and it would be a sad day if it is eliminated.
I only started using pt averaging in Wyo last year. Once I tried it I saw that it was such a win-win deal for both me and the other nonres hunters that I applied and hunted with. If Wyo eliminated pt averaging it would help those that hunt alone draw tags more frequently and require a longer wait before family members and friends that prefer to hunt together draw tags. It would't hurt my feelings at all if pt averaging was eliminated but it would come at a price. I'm thankful that Wyo has offered this opportunity for nonres and it would be a sad day if it is eliminated.
>WOW, who would guess point creep
>would have caught you with
>point averaging...surprise, surprise.
>
>The public school system is in
>shambles...particularly math.
>
>Common sense seems to be lacking
>as well.
Looks like you're on a roll this week trying to cut down others just for the sake of being a know-it-all since, if you're referring to me and my PP creep comment, I actually went to a parochial school all 12 years, LOL, and I have plenty of common sense, thank you! One is not cutting down a person when you obviously have no idea what his background is. Incidentally, the main reason we didn't draw the tag was because the G&F cut the tag numbers in that unit and even knowing that we decided to not change or withdrawn during the allowed time period and took our chances. It was actually the tag cut that caused us to barely miss it more than PP creep.
>would have caught you with
>point averaging...surprise, surprise.
>
>The public school system is in
>shambles...particularly math.
>
>Common sense seems to be lacking
>as well.
Looks like you're on a roll this week trying to cut down others just for the sake of being a know-it-all since, if you're referring to me and my PP creep comment, I actually went to a parochial school all 12 years, LOL, and I have plenty of common sense, thank you! One is not cutting down a person when you obviously have no idea what his background is. Incidentally, the main reason we didn't draw the tag was because the G&F cut the tag numbers in that unit and even knowing that we decided to not change or withdrawn during the allowed time period and took our chances. It was actually the tag cut that caused us to barely miss it more than PP creep.
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 04:59PM (MST)[p]jims,
Glad to hear you like Colorados system, Wyomings will be the same. Get ready for the sad day.
A big thank you for doing nothing for the NR families that want to hunt Colorado more often together. Greatly appreciated! Its all about jims!
Thanks for the post as well...will be helpful in the near future.
Glad to hear you like Colorados system, Wyomings will be the same. Get ready for the sad day.
A big thank you for doing nothing for the NR families that want to hunt Colorado more often together. Greatly appreciated! Its all about jims!
Thanks for the post as well...will be helpful in the near future.
BuzzH
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Yeah, right Mike...try again. It doesn't take much more than a second thought and third grade math. This time read YOUR post closely...and get back to me why point creep is an issue.
Its right in the post you wrote without engaging some thought first.
No offense meant, but the problem of point averaging is staring right at you...even if you don't recognize it.
Its right in the post you wrote without engaging some thought first.
No offense meant, but the problem of point averaging is staring right at you...even if you don't recognize it.
BuzzH
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 05:21PM (MST)[p]WOW...common sense really is dead. People taking a hosing by those just slightly smarter, and don't even know it.
Someone thinks about more than themselves, points out the obvious, and takes flack.
Unbelievable.
Almost best to just let the hosing continue...thankless work is this wildlife/conservation/legislative/regulation stuff.
Someone thinks about more than themselves, points out the obvious, and takes flack.
Unbelievable.
Almost best to just let the hosing continue...thankless work is this wildlife/conservation/legislative/regulation stuff.
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 05:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 05:27?PM (MST)
Jims,
No guessing about it...read what you wrote!!!
"I mostly hunt Colorado alone, so I like the low points being used in Party apps".
"I can draw more often in Wyoming with point averaging on party apps, so I like that better there".
Is there any other way to see it?
It would be one thing if you were advocating for CO NR hunters, and pushing for point averaging for them...but that isn't the case.
Then you turn around and squeal that I suggest Wyoming should adopt the same regulations, THAT YOU LIKE IN YOUR STATE, when it doesn't suit your agenda.
You see nothing hypocritical there?
Jims,
No guessing about it...read what you wrote!!!
"I mostly hunt Colorado alone, so I like the low points being used in Party apps".
"I can draw more often in Wyoming with point averaging on party apps, so I like that better there".
Is there any other way to see it?
It would be one thing if you were advocating for CO NR hunters, and pushing for point averaging for them...but that isn't the case.
Then you turn around and squeal that I suggest Wyoming should adopt the same regulations, THAT YOU LIKE IN YOUR STATE, when it doesn't suit your agenda.
You see nothing hypocritical there?
>Yeah, right Mike...try again. It doesn't
>take much more than a
>second thought and third grade
>math. This time read YOUR
>post closely...and get back to
>me why point creep is
>an issue.
>
>Its right in the post you
>wrote without engaging some thought
>first.
>
>No offense meant, but the problem
>of point averaging is staring
>right at you...even if you
>don't recognize it.
Seems like dang near every post you make has someone taking offense with the BS way you come back and talk down to others! I'm surprised you have any teeth left if you talk face to face with people the way you do on the net with others that may disagree with you! Just a thought, but just maybe you could get even more done with the things you're involved in if you treated people like human beings more and left your ego in the closet!
>take much more than a
>second thought and third grade
>math. This time read YOUR
>post closely...and get back to
>me why point creep is
>an issue.
>
>Its right in the post you
>wrote without engaging some thought
>first.
>
>No offense meant, but the problem
>of point averaging is staring
>right at you...even if you
>don't recognize it.
Seems like dang near every post you make has someone taking offense with the BS way you come back and talk down to others! I'm surprised you have any teeth left if you talk face to face with people the way you do on the net with others that may disagree with you! Just a thought, but just maybe you could get even more done with the things you're involved in if you treated people like human beings more and left your ego in the closet!
I was the first to respond to this post.
I have a very close member of our family who has stage 4 cancer. He is diabetic with an insulin pump. With chemo, he can't walk very far for fear of blisters on his feet. He has kids and is less than 50 years old. His life savings is going to put his kids through college and to pay down the mortgage. He has no points or big money for a guided hunt.
I have a few points, and when I saw jims post, I had to respond.
Even though our combined points isn't enough to go to jims area. Jim volunteered to start looking for a different area.
To help a family out that he has never met in his life!
I wouldn't say this is all about Jim!
Buzz: Make sure you include my post with your ammo!
.
I have a very close member of our family who has stage 4 cancer. He is diabetic with an insulin pump. With chemo, he can't walk very far for fear of blisters on his feet. He has kids and is less than 50 years old. His life savings is going to put his kids through college and to pay down the mortgage. He has no points or big money for a guided hunt.
I have a few points, and when I saw jims post, I had to respond.
Even though our combined points isn't enough to go to jims area. Jim volunteered to start looking for a different area.
To help a family out that he has never met in his life!
I wouldn't say this is all about Jim!
Buzz: Make sure you include my post with your ammo!
.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 06:01PM (MST)[p]Buzz I agree with everything you say other than you didn't get it all right...I'm a unscrupulous hypocrit! Thanks Buzz for hijacking my post! If you would like to discuss this further please start another post.
Anyone that wants to go hunting with a unscrupulous hypyocrit please send me a PM! I can guarantee we'll have a great time and see lots of bucks and bulls! Wyoming is a great state to hunt and I can't wait to hunt it again next year...and possibly meet up with another nonres hunter that will be a friend for life!
Anyone that wants to go hunting with a unscrupulous hypyocrit please send me a PM! I can guarantee we'll have a great time and see lots of bucks and bulls! Wyoming is a great state to hunt and I can't wait to hunt it again next year...and possibly meet up with another nonres hunter that will be a friend for life!
BuzzH
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 06:07PM (MST)[p]OK, Mike.
In my most gentle voice, so as not to offend anyone.
You stated that you point averaged and "drew an antelope area you like to hunt one year sooner than I should have".
How does that impact point creep and the guys with less points, or those that are applying alone.
Case in point:
Say a unit takes 4 points to draw...a guy with 4 points applies solo. Another group of 5 applicants applies with 1 guy that has 3 points, 2 that have 4 and 2 that have 5. Total points for the part is: 1x3=3 2x4=8 2x5=10 for a total of 21 points. Average, is 4.2 per applicant.
Now the poor SOB that's waited his 4 years is shoved to the side, tagless, and a guy with less points (the 3 point dude) now has a tag.
Just curious who's looking out for the NR hunters that apply solo or with others with the same point totals????
You Mike...is Jims?
Point creep follows right along...and pretty quick areas that used to take 2-3 points now take 4-5, and on and on and on.
That's why jims home state of Colorado went away from point averaging, and exactly why Wyoming should follow suit...
So, you can join the rest of the group that call me a narcissist all you want...but I try to look out for everyone and create the most fair system we can...FOR ALL HUNTERS. Also the precise reason that I fought the point system for Residents in Wyoming. The unscrupulous will use a system to their advantage, every single time they can, without a second fuggin' thought for anyone else.
I do applaud jims for his ability to do simple math, even if he is the real reason that point averaging needs to be taken away.
In my most gentle voice, so as not to offend anyone.
You stated that you point averaged and "drew an antelope area you like to hunt one year sooner than I should have".
How does that impact point creep and the guys with less points, or those that are applying alone.
Case in point:
Say a unit takes 4 points to draw...a guy with 4 points applies solo. Another group of 5 applicants applies with 1 guy that has 3 points, 2 that have 4 and 2 that have 5. Total points for the part is: 1x3=3 2x4=8 2x5=10 for a total of 21 points. Average, is 4.2 per applicant.
Now the poor SOB that's waited his 4 years is shoved to the side, tagless, and a guy with less points (the 3 point dude) now has a tag.
Just curious who's looking out for the NR hunters that apply solo or with others with the same point totals????
You Mike...is Jims?
Point creep follows right along...and pretty quick areas that used to take 2-3 points now take 4-5, and on and on and on.
That's why jims home state of Colorado went away from point averaging, and exactly why Wyoming should follow suit...
So, you can join the rest of the group that call me a narcissist all you want...but I try to look out for everyone and create the most fair system we can...FOR ALL HUNTERS. Also the precise reason that I fought the point system for Residents in Wyoming. The unscrupulous will use a system to their advantage, every single time they can, without a second fuggin' thought for anyone else.
I do applaud jims for his ability to do simple math, even if he is the real reason that point averaging needs to be taken away.
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 06:15PM (MST)[p]junior,
If you're being truthful, I'll recommend an area you can draw with YOUR/family members points to get you into a better area than you can get with point averaging with jims.
I'll buy the gas, drive my truck, take time off work, and you can stay at my house...no questions asked.
Doesn't have to be anything in it for me...like averaging points so I get a tag too.
If you're being truthful, I'll recommend an area you can draw with YOUR/family members points to get you into a better area than you can get with point averaging with jims.
I'll buy the gas, drive my truck, take time off work, and you can stay at my house...no questions asked.
Doesn't have to be anything in it for me...like averaging points so I get a tag too.
wyobackcountry
Active Member
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Here we go again!
I find it funny how guys can be so nice and polite on some sites and then come here and be total opposites.
If this thread will be "useful in the near future", be sure and use it in its entirety!
As a resident with all of my family and a lot of my friends being non residents, I'm totally okay with Wyomings current point averaging system.
1. It has NO affect on residents.
2. If one guy can offer knowledge, contacts, or even just companionship and another can offer the points needed to draw, as long as both parties are willing than why not? it's their choice...its a win win.
I find it funny how guys can be so nice and polite on some sites and then come here and be total opposites.
If this thread will be "useful in the near future", be sure and use it in its entirety!
As a resident with all of my family and a lot of my friends being non residents, I'm totally okay with Wyomings current point averaging system.
1. It has NO affect on residents.
2. If one guy can offer knowledge, contacts, or even just companionship and another can offer the points needed to draw, as long as both parties are willing than why not? it's their choice...its a win win.
wyobackcountry
Active Member
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Well then, fill me in.
I also bet that point averaging mostly only affects the most talked about and most publicized units in the middle range of points required to draw. Guys that have invested their time and money to accumulate max points (or even close) know what they want and most likely aren't going to settle for anything less, leaving those top tier units un affected.
My ears are open to your thoughts on the matter.
I also bet that point averaging mostly only affects the most talked about and most publicized units in the middle range of points required to draw. Guys that have invested their time and money to accumulate max points (or even close) know what they want and most likely aren't going to settle for anything less, leaving those top tier units un affected.
My ears are open to your thoughts on the matter.
BuzzH
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 07:03PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 07:02?PM (MST)
jims,
I do apologize for hi-jacking your thread, seriously. You're right and I was wrong, I should have started another thread. I have a flaw that I try to look out for ALL NR hunters and like to see things like point systems reflect equity rewarding all applicants the same.
I'll start another thread to point out whats wrong with point averaging.
Good luck finding people to party with, use the system to your advantage, while you can.
jims,
I do apologize for hi-jacking your thread, seriously. You're right and I was wrong, I should have started another thread. I have a flaw that I try to look out for ALL NR hunters and like to see things like point systems reflect equity rewarding all applicants the same.
I'll start another thread to point out whats wrong with point averaging.
Good luck finding people to party with, use the system to your advantage, while you can.
jm77
Long Time Member
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Two things are being over looked here:
First- a certain number of people will buy points for those friends or family that don't hunt and average with them to draw year after year.
Second- outfitters are well educated on applying hunters for points and using the averaging method with their clients, all to the detriment of DIY NR hunters, like most on here. I think Topgun might call that point creep or something. But don't kid yourselves, outfits like SnS love averaging and if you're not doing it, you're behind the game.
Nice of you to make that offer to junior Buzz, very unselfish, if you ask me.
First- a certain number of people will buy points for those friends or family that don't hunt and average with them to draw year after year.
Second- outfitters are well educated on applying hunters for points and using the averaging method with their clients, all to the detriment of DIY NR hunters, like most on here. I think Topgun might call that point creep or something. But don't kid yourselves, outfits like SnS love averaging and if you're not doing it, you're behind the game.
Nice of you to make that offer to junior Buzz, very unselfish, if you ask me.
Thanks for the offer Buzz...appreciated.
Not sure we need help with public land, its the private. I don't know if he is going to be able to do spot and stalk in another 9 or 10 months. More than likely he will have to shoot from the truck.(will easily get his disabled permit)
Haven't called WGFD yet. The way the regs read you can not shoot from a public rd. So, private it is, unless G&F say its ok to pull road side?
This hunt has always been a dream of his. He has no clue he needs points to hunt.(He may not, still early and I have plenty time to research) Honestly he probably wouldn't go if he know someone was going to burn points for him.
I have 6 points, so he is going hunting! Not looking for trophy's, just legal and who knows, he may fill two tags next year. Will put that guarantee in writing a little later.
Not sure we need help with public land, its the private. I don't know if he is going to be able to do spot and stalk in another 9 or 10 months. More than likely he will have to shoot from the truck.(will easily get his disabled permit)
Haven't called WGFD yet. The way the regs read you can not shoot from a public rd. So, private it is, unless G&F say its ok to pull road side?
This hunt has always been a dream of his. He has no clue he needs points to hunt.(He may not, still early and I have plenty time to research) Honestly he probably wouldn't go if he know someone was going to burn points for him.
I have 6 points, so he is going hunting! Not looking for trophy's, just legal and who knows, he may fill two tags next year. Will put that guarantee in writing a little later.
nripepi,
Thanks.
We are good...I have the points, we just need to clarify a few things with the disabled permit. Then we will decide if private land is necessary. Nice to see there are folk willing to help!
Thanks again!
If you ever need anything feel free to PM. Will be happy to help if I can.
Thanks.
We are good...I have the points, we just need to clarify a few things with the disabled permit. Then we will decide if private land is necessary. Nice to see there are folk willing to help!
Thanks again!
If you ever need anything feel free to PM. Will be happy to help if I can.
Things have pretty much settled down on this post so I thought I would give an update. I've figured out an antelope strategy for this year but haven't finalized plans with anyone for elk. The elk deadline is quickly approaching so if you are tired of applying for pts and want to share a great elk hunting experience please let me know.
tracker12
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Well I like the system. I was able to drag a long time friend around 4 years ago on an Antelope hunt that otherwise would not have been able to go.
Since then we have accumulated 4 points each and are going to apply for an area that needs 2 1/5. His brother who is planning on accompanying us has 8. Guess we could really take a gaggle of guys if we wanted.
I also have max deer and elk points. What to do
Since then we have accumulated 4 points each and are going to apply for an area that needs 2 1/5. His brother who is planning on accompanying us has 8. Guess we could really take a gaggle of guys if we wanted.
I also have max deer and elk points. What to do
cmbbulldog
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Jim - sent you an email.
Chad
Chad
SPAZ
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I've got 9 elk points, max going in. 4 antelope. I want a 380 or better bull, not far from the road, 5 days or less hunting. Can you make that happen? You'd have to cough up the app fee for me too. I was just going for another point. Lopes, I'd need something 90+ and fewer than a day or two hunting. Can't afford that now either. Thanks for the kind offer.
W
WasatchRider
Guest
jims PM sent to you
WasatchRider, I sent you a PM.
Spaz, I know you are kidding about paying for your tag..I have enough problem coming up with cash for my own tags! The biggest bull I saw this year in Wyo was a gorgeous 360 bull that just about ran me over during archery season. Unfortunately my arrow went between his legs. If another hunter didn't get him he's likely still alive! Sorry I may not be able to help you out with 370+...it's possible in several of the units I've spent time but super tough! In regard to 90+" antelope...I don't think I've ever seen one in all the years I've hunted Wyo. I saw a buck a few years ago that was likely 87sh though!
Spaz, I know you are kidding about paying for your tag..I have enough problem coming up with cash for my own tags! The biggest bull I saw this year in Wyo was a gorgeous 360 bull that just about ran me over during archery season. Unfortunately my arrow went between his legs. If another hunter didn't get him he's likely still alive! Sorry I may not be able to help you out with 370+...it's possible in several of the units I've spent time but super tough! In regard to 90+" antelope...I don't think I've ever seen one in all the years I've hunted Wyo. I saw a buck a few years ago that was likely 87sh though!
I'm still searching for the right fit for both elk and antelope. Please send me a PM or email if interested. Thanks!
[email protected]
[email protected]
cmbbulldog
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Hmmmm, interesting.
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
