Wyoming Elk - 3 points

U

UtahMountainMan

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-13 AT 08:28PM (MST)[p]Hey guys - Have a question for ya Wyoming hunters. I am a 32 year old Utah father of 4. I have 3 elk points. I have never hunted in Wyoming but it is a BEAUTIFUL state and I cannot wait to draw a tag up there.

I am a solo hunter, I may be able to convince my brother to tag along on the hunt with me but I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.

I am looking for a chance at a 300" bull (I am not a crazy/addicted trophy hunter), to hunt in beautiful country, and have an amazing adventure in the beautiful wild. Filling the tag will be the frosting on top. Obviously I would love a huge bull but a good solid 6 point on the ground will make me very happy!

I cant afford a guide and I would prefer the challenge of trying to get it done on my own. I would consider hunting the wilderness areas if there was an affordable option.

ALSO, I would be open to putting in for the Special draw in 2014 even though it is more money and I am also open to waiting for another point or two if it will make that big of a difference.

Anyway, just looking for some feedback for a guy with 3 points. I am not interested in waiting for 10+ years to draw the best of the best tag. I want to hunt while I can and create memories.

Thanks guys!!!

I have quite a bit of knowledge on Utah and the hunting areas here, I am more than willing to exchange feedback.

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-13 AT 09:52PM (MST)[p]If I were you, I'd go for a General tag that's good for a lot of units throughout the state and do it this year before fees go up like they probably will in 2015. You could even go in as a party with your brother and with an average of 1.5 PPs you could both draw a tag. There are lots of general units that will give you a good chance at a decent bull, especially if you bow hunt during the rut. The other good thing about Wyoming is that you could hunt with your bow for an extra $35 archery permit and if you don't fill the tag with your bow you could still hunt the rifle season later on if you have the time and extra money. That way you could actually do two hunts for probably less money than paying the higher fee in the draw for an LE unit, especially if you live right next door in Utah.
 
http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/imgs/QRDocs/WGFD14_ELKMAPCHART.pdf

There are 54 General Elk units to choose from.

See my link above.

Simply highlight the 54 units on the last page unit map and you can really get an idea of where to hunt/ go scout before the season starts.

Plenty of units that ya could take your family on a camping trip and you could scout it out.

Like Mike stated in his post, the archery stamp and if ya hunt the west side units you will need the elk feedlot stamp $12 I think it is?? and everyone with any species tag needs the Conservation Stamp another $12 I believe.

Robb
 
So even with 3 points you guys think its better to draw a general unit tag this year than try for one of the LE units? Even if it takes another year or two?

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
Yep, unless you want to build a bunch of PPs for a top unit that will take many year, that's what I would do. There are plenty of good bulls in general units if you do your homework. You can start narrowing your choices down and will have plenty of time to finalize your plans as soon as you know whether you drew the tag. If something happens and the stats change such that you don't draw the tags, you can then fall back and buy another PP during the summer.
 
I'm thinking the odds for the general tag might get worse this year, as huntin fool is pushing this hunt as one of the best opportunity hunts for elk in the west right now. But you can't draw if you don't apply. Just to clarify if you do not draw you can not buy a point this summer as you would have already accumulated a point for 2014.
 
>I'm thinking the odds for the
>general tag might get worse
>this year, as huntin fool
>is pushing this hunt as
>one of the best opportunity
>hunts for elk in the
>west right now. But you
>can't draw if you don't
>apply. Just to clarify if
>you do not draw you
>can not buy a point
>this summer as you would
>have already accumulated a point
>for 2014.


***That would be the case if he bought a PP when he applied for the draw, but I never do that and wait until summer. You are correct that you can only buy 1 PP a year for each animal.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 10:15AM (MST)[p]>First question I would ask myself
>is, how often do I
>want to hunt WY?


***That was my exact thinking when I suggested he do the General units hunt this year. Unless he builds PPs for another God knows how many years for a top LE unit, or just gets cow tags each year, I think he'd be better off and have a good chance at a decent bull by cashing in his PPs this year. He didn't say if his brother went with him that he woud party like I suggested, but they or somebody else with no PPs could do that and get tags with a 1.5 PP average.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 10:48AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 10:46?AM (MST)

Just have to love those preference points...self induced limit on opportunity.

Biggest batch of snake-oil ever sold. As per ALWAYS, a marginal deal for those with max points and a set of handcuffs for those without.

To the OP, if you expect to draw any of the top elk units, you're dreaming of a remote chance in the random portion. To draw on the preference side...be prepared for a very long wait.

Of course, you could always take advantage of the system, advertise on this and other boards for someone with 6 to max points, apply as a party with them and maybe draw a better tag.

Seems those that want these points schemes are pretty intent on bastardizing them with things like point averaging in a party, transferable points, and the sky is the gdamn limit from there.

If they work so well, why do some want to jump in as a party to increase their draw odds???

If it were me, I'd just hunt general as has been suggested. I'd bet 90% of the LQ tags are filled with raghorns, spikes, and even cows. Certainly 90% plus are filled with nothing remotely close to what most would consider a trophy bull.

A hunter with a general tag, average effort, 2 firing brain cells, and the ability to shoot well with their weapon of choice will trump 90% of the LQ tag holders. FACT.
 
I drew the elk tag I wanted a few years ago and my wife drew one of two NR tags in a unit last year with max points.

After I draw the pronghorn and deer tags of my choice with my max points and the sheep tag I will draw in the next year or two I would also like to abolish the point system in WY.

The MT bonus point system is almost no better than no system at all. my wife and I both have max points for the big 3 and we've drawn zip.

Build all the points you can you won't regret it. if you think you're lucky enough not to need them then buy lottery tickets and use the winnings to hunt anywhere you desire.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Hey guys thanks for the responses and feedback.

In answer to a few questions...

If my brother came he would just be coming to hike, camp, and take pictures, we wouldnt party hunt so I would think I would be guaranteed to draw a General tag with 3 points in the regular draw. If for whatever reason I didnt this year I would be okay this that.

How often I would like to hunt Wyoming? I would think that I would like to hunt there every 2 or 3 years on average.

My overall plan is to hunt Utah every year, and get points in CO and WY for elk and deer. But unlike most guys, I dont want to draw the top shelf units and wait for 10 to 15 years. I would ilke to be able to draw 1 good (not great) out of state hunt about every year with 2 to 5 points.

Like I mentioned in my first post, I hunt because I feel at home in the mountains and I love to challenge myself and see beautiful country. I also REALLY enjoy scouting and talking with guys who know areas so that I can learn and see new country while I am still young enough to do so.

The biggest hurdles I have had to face while hunting so far is that 1)I dont have a lot of close friends who are passionate about hunting so I pretty much have been left to figure everything out on my own and 2)I dont want to limit myself to Utah when there are so many canyons and mountain tops in other states to see!

I really like the idea of putting in for the General tag every year and drawing it every 2 or 3 years. If I go that route I would IDEALLY like to find a basic starting point (general unit) so that I can start taking an annual camping trip up there and I would hope to hunt the same basic area every year.

I was/am hoping that with 3 points I could at least draw an area where maybe there is a little less hunting pressure than on general units. But maybe its not as bad up there as it is in Utah.

Also, I definitely would want to bowhunt in September and love the option of coming back with a rifle in October if I dont seal the deal.

My biggest bull to date is a solid 5x5. I would just be looking to build on that.

Again, I really appreciate the open conversation guys. It means a LOT.

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"
 
If you want to hunt more often and are not concerned about trophy quality and numbers of hunters in the field (non-wilderness), these guys are 100% right.

A NR friend of mine likes to hunt elk every so often. He applied this year with 4 pts and drew his LQ tag with 100% odds. We passed numerous bulls in the 300 range and on day 3 he took a 320 bull. Two days later my oldest daughter who is a nurse had a day off. We went to the same hunt area and she killed her best ever bull: 354" 6x6. The following week my youngest daughter missed a 320+ on her first day of hunting and on the third day killed a 330 6x6 bull, her second best ever. Oh I forgot, mine scored 361 and took three days of my time.

This in a nutshell is the advantage you get with a LQ tag compared to a general area. Granted not every LQ area has the same numbers of quality bulls, but most have much more than general areas with less hunter density. And I have never had a NR friend need more than 4 pts to draw where we hunt.
 
If were me, I'd just hunt general as has been suggested. I'd bet 90% of the LQ tags are filled with raghorns, spikes, and even cows. Certainly 90% plus are filled with nothing remotely close to what most would consider a trophy bull.

A hunter with a general tag, average effort, 2 firing brain cells, and the ability to shoot well with their weapon of choice will trump 90% of the LQ tag holders. FACT.

...you've been lead to water.
 
Buzz, if your theory were correct wouldn't that make a commissioners tag worth about zero dollars?












Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 06:37PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 06:35?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 06:34?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 06:31?PM (MST)

440, No, because the 1%er's who put in a lot of effort in LQ areas do have a chance at a great bull...or the people buying the commissioners/governors tags hire an outfitter.

If you want an eye-opener, look at some of the harvest stats in the LQ areas.

I've hunted several of the LQ areas, and its crazy how many hunters whack rags and spikes with qood tags. They dont apply because of quality, in a lot of cases. They apply because its close to home, easier to shoot "an elk", or they think they'll luck out on a better than average bull (to them). Most lack time, patiance, or ability to do their tags justice. Just the way it is.

Look at unit 100 for a prime example...unit 7 for another. The average bull coming from both of those units isnt going to top 300...and thats a FACT. I'd rather have a general tag than a tag in unit 100...all fuggin' day long. In particular if I was hunting for a good bull.

Like I've already said, a hunter with a general tag, that can differentiate chit from clay, will bag a better bull than most of the ones coming from LQ areas.

Elk hunting in Wyomings general areas is wayyyy under appreciated.

If I actually gave a chit about hunting elk in Wyoming...or elk in general, theres ZERO debate I could bag a 300-330 six point bull every year in Wyoming on a general tag. I put a very modest amount of effort into elk in Wyoming and still kill 2 every year. I'm 14/14 on bulls in Wyoming, have shot 55 total elk (MT, WY, and AZ)...and honestly, I'm no elk hunter.

I've never had a single day of rifle hunting elk in Wyoming, general or LQ, where I couldnt have shot at least 1 legal bull. Most of the time, several legal bulls.

Elk are for eating...deer and antelope are for trophy hunting.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 07:05PM (MST)[p]Hey BuzzH! You should be an elk guide in Wyoming when you retire from the USFS, as that's a pretty dang good record that would be hard to beat!!!
 
I won't argue thet WY general elk hunting is underrated, but I think Garth is going to cure that. I also thing as a resident who can hunt the wilderness you don't apreciate the limitations that poses to the NR. I know places I'd love to do a DIY hunt but I can't, so I'm stuck with an outfitter or hunting with all the other NR yahoos.


Still hunts with limited or very limited hunters are always better thaqn ya'all come tags other than rare exceptions. I'll glady take those draw tags if you other NR hunters want to hunt the general and stop drawing against me.

















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-13 AT 08:15PM (MST)[p]Public land, general tag, National Forest...not wilderness and open to all.

I had a bit of extra time to hunt bulls in 2010, so I passed several bulls on the rifle opener.

This one bugled until nearly 10 AM on opening day, wind was wrong so I left him alone. He bugled that evening again, but I was too far away to get at him. Hiked the next morning in the dark, he was roaring again. Edged in witha favorable wind, and about 15 minutes after legal shooting light, shot him at 25 yards...

No good bulls in general areas, and so much pressure, they bugle the entire rifle season...

IMG_4064.JPG


It'd be plumb scary if I actually put in some real effort on elk...
 
A few more, all 4's and 5's...with some stories to match how tough the general areas are.

I was working in MOntana and missed the first 3 days of elk season in Wyoming. Got off work after a 12 hour day, drove all night to my general tag area, slept 2 hours in the cab of my truck. Took off right at legal light, jumped a bull within the first 1/2 hour, but he gave me the slip. Hunted another hour and this one walked right out in front of me...

wybull03.JPG


Missed opening day this year as well, but caught the last 3 days. A buddy and I hunted six points only the first day, saw 2 300 class bulls but couldnt seal the deal. I have video of 86 elk scattered out in small bunches that we could see from one spot. The next evening my buddy shot a raghorn. I hunted the next day until noon, passed a couple bulls. I got on the highway at 3 PM. Was driving through NF, and came around a corner to see 20 elk standing in the highway. They trotted into the timber while I rounded up my orange vest and rifle. I cut into the trees at an angle and shot the bull...150 yards from the highway, while wearing tennis shoes.

BuzzElk%2000005.JPG


Passed up several bulls on this opening morning. Hiked around in the timber, seeing plenty of elk. Around 1 PM I figured I'd take a nap. About 15 minutes into my siesta I was rudely awakened by this bull. Found out a 338 puts a hell of a whoopin' on bulls at 15 yards:

IMG_0648_1_1.JPG


Missed opening day again, didnt get to hunt until day 5 of the season...but while walking in, in the dark, heard several bulls bugling. Chased bugles and finally shot this satellite bull at 60 yards.

IMG_3194.JPG


The crowds just make it soooo tough...
 
You obviously do well, but the top bull is the only one I'd drive to WY for. you have to look at it from the NR point of view when you're talking to a NR. I may take up general season elk hunting in WY just for the fact I love hunting in WY. but I don't expect it to be a cake walk.

I think WY has some great general hunts, and the easy draw hunts may not be much better that may be true. but from personal experience on several hard to draw WY elk hunts I can say it's nothing short of spectacular. if some dingbat whacks a dink because he can't keep his finger off the trigger it doesn't degrade the potential of the tag in his pocket.

As I said Garth is pushing the WY general hunts hard, even getting a general tag might start taking points before long.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
440---I really shake my head when I look at some of the draw odds and stats. Take a look at these point burners in the regular PP draw alone:

6 had 7PPs
12 had 6
17 had 5
5 had <5

25 had 4
24 had <4
66 had 3
58 had <3
242 had 2
327 had <2


That sure got a lot of people out of the LE draws last year alone when all that was needed was 1PP to draw and 782 used a lot more than that up to max. I wonder waht the main reason was for over almost 100 people using 4 or more PPs on a general tag. If that's the case and HF is pushing general tag there may be an even bigger number burning PP this year on one.
 
I think if a NR guy is going guided then there are a lot of great private ranch hunts in General elk areas so why wait. The qulaity of bulls on private is better than some of the LE hard to draw areas. Just a thought...
 
First of PP suck. But why not build points? If you can build points and still hunt you should. It almost seems foolish not to build points as a person never really knows what the future holds. I look at it as a savings account. Truth is why not save points if you can afford it and still hunt? I am 1 under max points for both elk and lopes. I really have no intentions of using my point anytime soon. In fact I might just save them until I retire then maybe have one epic season Wy where I try and take PY animal in the same week with my bow... I can still hunt elk, deer and lope when I want...

I also love how everyone brags about animals they have taken size etc. But hunting is hunting each unit, each day is different. Of course nothing is better than taking a 330 plus bull in an OTC unit, but all hunts are fun, why not just hunt... Good unit bad unit, easy access, poor access, it is all hunting... Just get out and make the most of it!
 
I believe at this time you can draw a general with no points if it's your first choice in the standard draw. you can draw it as your second choice if you go for the special draw. and get a point if you don't draw your first choice. this might change if a bunch of guys follow Garths advice, which I'm not faulting.

I wish I could buy points from all the guys who don't think they have much value. I would in a heartbeat.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
According to the odds page for 2013 you'll have an 80% chance at a general tag with 1 point. Sounds like it may take 2 points after all the hype over the general tags.
 
Was wondering what they show for Special GEN as a 2nd choice. I am curious to know if they do more than read an odds report from the dept.
 
>I believe at this time you
>can draw a general with
>no points if it's your
>first choice in the standard
>draw. you can draw it
>as your second choice if
>you go for the special
>draw. and get a point
>if you don't draw your
>first choice. this might
>change if a bunch of
>guys follow Garths advice, which
>I'm not faulting.
>
>I wish I could buy points
>from all the guys who
>don't think they have much
>value. I would in a
>heartbeat.

***1 PP in the regular draw for a General tag last year was 80.73% success rate. It took more than 1 PP for a 100%chance to draw the tag, so it will probably go up this year as some are suggesting because of the HF hype.
 
I'm chasing a LQ tag again, I don't know why with 3 pts it might be a while. I'd do a gen tag with as 2nd chice but cant part with the $1100.
 

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